Re: Bibliography does not print when using biblatex instead of bibtex

[Michael Berger]

On 07/02/2015 09:37 PM, Benedict Holland wrote:
I have been working with biblatex now for over a year. It is 
exceptionally complex. It might actually be too complex to automate. I 
can't even think up a decent UI to present the hundreds of different 
configuration options, and there are probably even more than I use. 
The documentation alone is several hundred pages.


The problem is that bibliogrophy generation is very very complicated. 
It doesn't sound like it should be until you think about the 
dozens---possibly hundreds---of different ways of doing it. Each 
journal has their own unique way. Nothing is standard. There are 
regional differences between the US and the EU. There are also no good 
defaults, even regionally. From a technical perspective (I thought a 
lot about this), it is very challenging. It also has only 1 major 
benefit and that is that biblatex handles unicode flawlessly. Apart 
from that, I don't think it is that unreasonable to assume that if you 
are using biblatex and biber that you are a bit more advanced. You 
might not be a power user but you are also not just a button presser 
either.


BTW, to the person who stated that linux handles paths incorrectly, 
no. Just no. It doesn't. Windows handles paths incorrectly because 
everything is capitalized thanks to really epically bad programming in 
the days of Dos. Unix has always had case specific paths and this is 
way it should be. It just means you, as the end user, need to be a bit 
careful.


~Ben

On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 10:13 AM, PhilipPirrip > wrote:


On 07/02/2015 03:35 AM, Michael Berger wrote:

I hope some good guys will attend to this making the usage of
biblatex
in LyX as easy as that of bibtex.



At least as a hack in the current code that will do this very same
thing (biblatex with natbib compatibility) when biber is selected
as a processor. Wishful thinking... :)




Hi Benedict,
I am definitely not a power user neither am I a "button presser" 
(fantastic term!).

I find your comment very realistic and fair in every single point, thanks.

First, I would like to express my thanks to every single person who 
commented on resolving my problems - every single line was helpful, no 
matter whether or not it hit the point. To ordinary users *every* 
comment contributes towards the understanding of his/her issue.


re paths
In LyX I now and then used spaces in file names and neither was case 
sensitivity a problem. My problem as per Subject was that one element in 
the path was simply missing - foolish enough, but that was the culprit. :-D
Yet, I appreciate all the comments re case sensitivity and spaces in LyX 
- good to be reminded.


re bibtex vs biblatex
I am happy to have taken the challenge (never ever dreamed of what was 
waiting for me) to compare both on the same document staffed with all 
that linguistic peculiarities. Both version are finally working as 
anticipated.
Within my reach I almost found nothing that could not have been achieved 
with bibtex (I am not saying biblatex has no advantage over  biblatex!). 
But as utilization of biblatex in LyX currently is concerned, it is 
everything but easy - just something for daring people and for all who 
are eager to learn. Just imagine: "... we have to fool LyX"!


Cheers to the community and thanks again!

Michael

Re: Bibliography does not print when using biblatex instead of bibtex

[Benedict Holland]

I have been working with biblatex now for over a year. It is exceptionally
complex. It might actually be too complex to automate. I can't even think
up a decent UI to present the hundreds of different configuration options,
and there are probably even more than I use. The documentation alone is
several hundred pages.

The problem is that bibliogrophy generation is very very complicated. It
doesn't sound like it should be until you think about the dozens---possibly
hundreds---of different ways of doing it. Each journal has their own unique
way. Nothing is standard. There are regional differences between the US and
the EU. There are also no good defaults, even regionally. From a technical
perspective (I thought a lot about this), it is very challenging. It also
has only 1 major benefit and that is that biblatex handles unicode
flawlessly. Apart from that, I don't think it is that unreasonable to
assume that if you are using biblatex and biber that you are a bit more
advanced. You might not be a power user but you are also not just a button
presser either.

BTW, to the person who stated that linux handles paths incorrectly, no.
Just no. It doesn't. Windows handles paths incorrectly because everything
is capitalized thanks to really epically bad programming in the days of
Dos. Unix has always had case specific paths and this is way it should be.
It just means you, as the end user, need to be a bit careful.

~Ben

On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 10:13 AM, PhilipPirrip  wrote:

> On 07/02/2015 03:35 AM, Michael Berger wrote:
>
>> I hope some good guys will attend to this making the usage of biblatex
>> in LyX as easy as that of bibtex.
>>
>
>
> At least as a hack in the current code that will do this very same thing
> (biblatex with natbib compatibility) when biber is selected as a processor.
> Wishful thinking... :)
>
>
>

Re: Bibliography does not print when using biblatex instead of bibtex

[PhilipPirrip]

On 07/02/2015 03:35 AM, Michael Berger wrote:

I hope some good guys will attend to this making the usage of biblatex
in LyX as easy as that of bibtex.



At least as a hack in the current code that will do this very same thing 
(biblatex with natbib compatibility) when biber is selected as a 
processor. Wishful thinking... :)

Re: Bibliography does not print when using biblatex instead of bibtex

[Michael Berger]

On 07/01/2015 10:25 PM, PhilipPirrip wrote:

On 07/01/2015 03:44 PM, Michael Berger wrote:

However, I also selected under Content "all references" and ticked "Add
bibliography to TOC".



Yeah, but that's only for bibtex. Remember, we are only tricking LyX 
into thinking that it should provide us with the citation dialog.



Use this instead of \printbibliography

\nocite{*}
\printbibliography[heading=bibintoc]



Philip,
great! - that did it!

I hope some good guys will attend to this making the usage of biblatex 
in LyX as easy as that of bibtex.


Many thanks,
Michael

Re: Bibliography does not print when using biblatex instead of bibtex

[PhilipPirrip]

On 07/01/2015 03:44 PM, Michael Berger wrote:

However, I also selected under Content "all references" and ticked "Add
bibliography to TOC".



Yeah, but that's only for bibtex. Remember, we are only tricking LyX 
into thinking that it should provide us with the citation dialog.



Use this instead of \printbibliography

\nocite{*}
\printbibliography[heading=bibintoc]

Re: Bibliography does not print when using biblatex instead of bibtex

[Michael Berger]

On 07/01/2015 04:10 PM, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:
2015-07-01 15:53 GMT+02:00 Scott Kostyshak >:


On Wed, Jul 01, 2015 at 03:43:55PM +0200, Michael Berger wrote:
> Hi Philip,
> thank you, I will check what you said - makes sense. However, if
the path to
> my bib-file is wrong, how can I cite references from it?
> And: never ever did my system complain capital letters nor
spaces in file
> names in any of my numerous LyX documents (before trying biblatex).
>
> Anyway, I will check that too and then report back.
>
> Michael

Hi Michael,

biblatex is a differnet program than bibtex. One might allow paths
that
are case-insensitive (this is incorrect behavior in my opinion on
Linux) while the other might not. Also note that LyX is a separate
program from the above two, so you might be able to select a reference
from LyX but biblatex not find it (again, because they are separate
programs).



 Also, note that the path for biblatex is set at a different place 
(the preamble) than the path that LyX uses to access the bibliography 
(the bibtex inset). If these two paths are identical, it should work.


Jürgen

Hello Jürgen, Philip,
there is some progress;
I followed Philip's advice and checked the path to the bib file.
in \addbibresource{/home/m39/Documents/Arbeiten Mike/...} the ../mb39/.. 
was missing.

After correcting that the Reference appeared in the PDF document.

However, I also selected under Content "all references" and ticked "Add 
bibliography to TOC".
But that had no effect at all. Only _*cited*_ references are shown and 
the *_TOC has still no bibliography entry_*.


Cheers,
Michael

Re: Bibliography does not print when using biblatex instead of bibtex

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2015-07-01 15:53 GMT+02:00 Scott Kostyshak :

> On Wed, Jul 01, 2015 at 03:43:55PM +0200, Michael Berger wrote:
> > Hi Philip,
> > thank you, I will check what you said - makes sense. However, if the
> path to
> > my bib-file is wrong, how can I cite references from it?
> > And: never ever did my system complain capital letters nor spaces in file
> > names in any of my numerous LyX documents (before trying biblatex).
> >
> > Anyway, I will check that too and then report back.
> >
> > Michael
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> biblatex is a differnet program than bibtex. One might allow paths that
> are case-insensitive (this is incorrect behavior in my opinion on
> Linux) while the other might not. Also note that LyX is a separate
> program from the above two, so you might be able to select a reference
> from LyX but biblatex not find it (again, because they are separate
> programs).
>


 Also, note that the path for biblatex is set at a different place (the
preamble) than the path that LyX uses to access the bibliography (the
bibtex inset). If these two paths are identical, it should work.

Jürgen

Re: Bibliography does not print when using biblatex instead of bibtex

[PhilipPirrip]

On 07/01/2015 09:43 AM, Michael Berger wrote:


thank you, I will check what you said - makes sense. However, if the
path to my bib-file is wrong, how can I cite references from it?


One of the possible reasons: machines never mistake, so when you browse 
for your .bib file through the dialogs, LyX gets the right path (or no 
path at all, if .lyx and .bib are in the same directory)

Re: Bibliography does not print when using biblatex instead of bibtex

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Wed, Jul 01, 2015 at 03:43:55PM +0200, Michael Berger wrote:
> Hi Philip,
> thank you, I will check what you said - makes sense. However, if the path to
> my bib-file is wrong, how can I cite references from it?
> And: never ever did my system complain capital letters nor spaces in file
> names in any of my numerous LyX documents (before trying biblatex).
> 
> Anyway, I will check that too and then report back.
> 
> Michael

Hi Michael,

biblatex is a differnet program than bibtex. One might allow paths that
are case-insensitive (this is incorrect behavior in my opinion on
Linux) while the other might not. Also note that LyX is a separate
program from the above two, so you might be able to select a reference
from LyX but biblatex not find it (again, because they are separate
programs).

In general on Linux, you should always be careful with case sensitivity
in filenames.

Best,

Scott

Re: Bibliography does not print when using biblatex instead of bibtex

[Michael Berger]

Hi Philip,
thank you, I will check what you said - makes sense. However, if the 
path to my bib-file is wrong, how can I cite references from it?
And: never ever did my system complain capital letters nor spaces in 
file names in any of my numerous LyX documents (before trying biblatex).


Anyway, I will check that too and then report back.

Michael

On 07/01/2015 03:25 PM, PhilipPirrip wrote:

Hi Michael,
There's a lot going on in your example, but what's causing problems 
(if everything else worked before) might be just that you haven't set 
the path to your .bib file in the right way. Path names in Linux are 
case sensitive (yours begins with /Home, which is almost always 
/home), and there's probably user name missing (you have 
/Home/Documents, should probably be /home/michael/Documents).
So please first check this. Use "pwd" terminal command in the 
directory where your .bib file is, or check the path in the file 
browser (might only show when you press CTRL-L)
If your .lyx and .bib files are in the same directory, I'd suggest 
using this code in your preamble (just replace name_of_your_bib_file.bib)


\newcommand\mybibfile{name_of_your_bib_file.bib}
\ifcsname input@path\endcsname\else\def\input@path{{./}}\fi
\def\@@setabsolutebibname#1#2{\edef\@@absolutebibname{#1#2}}
\expandafter\@@setabsolutebibname\input@path{\mybibfile}
\addbibresource{\@@absolutebibname}

instead of \addbibresource{/Home/Documents/Arbeiten 
Mike/Hausarbeiten/MaHomex_Mike.bib}


This will make your project portable.

Good luck,
Pip



On 07/01/2015 03:59 AM, Michael Berger wrote:

On 06/30/2015 10:58 PM, PhilipPirrip wrote:


It worked for me on Fedora Linux, biber 1.8 + biblatex 2.8a. I used 
the

recipe from the same wiki page.


Attaching a working example, might help.



Hallo Philip,
your example file is working here as anticipated.
So, one may conclude the problem with my attached sample file
(bibliography not printed)  is NOT caused by shortcomings of LyX and
KBibtex but may have to do with my settings.

See attached files. I left the basic structure intact as it might be
significant towards the problem and you can see all my settings .
The paper is using most of special elements needed and typical in
linguistics.

Hence, you probably have to install other package(s), e.g. covington.sty

Thanks and regards,
Michael

Re: Bibliography does not print when using biblatex instead of bibtex

[PhilipPirrip]

Hi Michael,
There's a lot going on in your example, but what's causing problems (if 
everything else worked before) might be just that you haven't set the 
path to your .bib file in the right way. Path names in Linux are case 
sensitive (yours begins with /Home, which is almost always /home), and 
there's probably user name missing (you have /Home/Documents, should 
probably be /home/michael/Documents).
So please first check this. Use "pwd" terminal command in the directory 
where your .bib file is, or check the path in the file browser (might 
only show when you press CTRL-L)
If your .lyx and .bib files are in the same directory, I'd suggest using 
this code in your preamble (just replace name_of_your_bib_file.bib)


\newcommand\mybibfile{name_of_your_bib_file.bib}
\ifcsname input@path\endcsname\else\def\input@path{{./}}\fi
\def\@@setabsolutebibname#1#2{\edef\@@absolutebibname{#1#2}}
\expandafter\@@setabsolutebibname\input@path{\mybibfile}
\addbibresource{\@@absolutebibname}

instead of \addbibresource{/Home/Documents/Arbeiten 
Mike/Hausarbeiten/MaHomex_Mike.bib}


This will make your project portable.

Good luck,
Pip



On 07/01/2015 03:59 AM, Michael Berger wrote:

On 06/30/2015 10:58 PM, PhilipPirrip wrote:



It worked for me on Fedora Linux, biber 1.8 + biblatex 2.8a. I used the
recipe from the same wiki page.


Attaching a working example, might help.



Hallo Philip,
your example file is working here as anticipated.
So, one may conclude the problem with my attached sample file
(bibliography not printed)  is NOT caused by shortcomings of LyX and
KBibtex but may have to do with my settings.

See attached files. I left the basic structure intact as it might be
significant towards the problem and you can see all my settings .
The paper is using most of special elements needed and typical in
linguistics.

Hence, you probably have to install other package(s), e.g. covington.sty

Thanks and regards,
Michael

Re: Bibliography does not print when using biblatex instead of bibtex

[Michael Berger]

On 06/30/2015 10:58 PM, PhilipPirrip wrote:



It worked for me on Fedora Linux, biber 1.8 + biblatex 2.8a. I used the
recipe from the same wiki page.


Attaching a working example, might help.



Hallo Philip,
your example file is working here as anticipated.
So, one may conclude the problem with my attached sample file 
(bibliography not printed)  is NOT caused by shortcomings of LyX and 
KBibtex but may have to do with my settings.


See attached files. I left the basic structure intact as it might be 
significant towards the problem and you can see all my settings .
The paper is using most of special elements needed and typical in 
linguistics.


Hence, you probably have to install other package(s), e.g. covington.sty

Thanks and regards,
Michael
@article{Kana:1999:GRBI,
	author = {Vamarasi \& Marit Kana},
	location = {Canberra},
	publisher = {Pacific Linguistics},
	title = {{Grammatical Relations in Bahasa Indonesia}},
	year = {1999}
}

@article{Wohlgemuth:2003:DDdBI,
	author = {Wohlgemuth},
	location = {Berlin},
	publisher = {Wei{\ss}ensee Verlag},
	title = {{Das Diathesesystem der Bahasa Indonesia}},
	year = {2003}
}

@article{Pustejovsky:1992:,
	author = {Pustejovsky},
	year = {1992}
}

@article{Vamarasi:1999:,
	author = {Vamarasi},
	year = {1999}
}



testfile_biblatex.lyx
Description: application/lyx

Re: Bibliography does not print when using biblatex instead of bibtex

[Michael Berger]

On 06/30/2015 06:10 PM, Johannes Böttcher wrote:



On 06/30/2015 11:19 AM, Michael Berger wrote:
PS: as advised under "Known problems" I did 'biber --cache' which 
resulted in:

"No cache - you are not running the PAR: Packer executable of biber"

What might be the problem here?



Do you have up-to-date versions of biblatex (3.0) and biber (2.1)?


Johannes


Thanks Johannes,
I believe to have the latest stable versions of
texlive-biber = 2013.84.1.6svn30591-17.1.7
kbibtex = 0.5.1.-2.2
both provided by my YAST software manager.
Next I am preparing a sample file.

cheers,
Michael

Re: Bibliography does not print when using biblatex instead of bibtex

[PhilipPirrip]

It worked for me on Fedora Linux, biber 1.8 + biblatex 2.8a. I used the
recipe from the same wiki page.


Attaching a working example, might help.




@BOOK{monroe:1955,
  title = {{R}adio {O}n},
  publisher = {Addison--Wesley},
  year = {1955},
  author = {Marilyn Monroe},
  address = {Los Angeles, CA, USA}
}




MM_biblatex.lyx
Description: application/lyx

Re: Bibliography does not print when using biblatex instead of bibtex

[PhilipPirrip]

It worked for me on Fedora Linux, biber 1.8 + biblatex 2.8a. I used the
recipe from the same wiki page.



Attaching a working example, might help.



@BOOK{monroe:1955,
  title = {{R}adio {O}n},
  publisher = {Addison--Wesley},
  year = {1955},
  author = {Marilyn Monroe},
  address = {Los Angeles, CA, USA}
}




MM-biblatex.lyx
Description: application/lyx

Re: Bibliography does not print when using biblatex instead of bibtex

[PhilipPirrip]

On 06/30/2015 05:19 AM, Michael Berger wrote:

Dear Friends of LyX,
I used bibtex in various documentswith single and sectioned
bibliographies and that worked without problems.
Then I decided to try using biblatex on one of these documents and found
"Using biblatex with LyX" in wiki.lyx.org/Bibtex/Biblatex.
I followed this guide step by step but neither shows thebibliography in
the text nor in PDf nor does it print.

I am using:
openSUSE 13.2, KDE
LyX 2.1.2
my collection of references is managed in KBibTeX version 0.5.1


A minimal (non)working example would definitely help here: a short .lyx 
file and accompanying .bib.
It worked for me on Fedora Linux, biber 1.8 + biblatex 2.8a. I used the 
recipe from the same wiki page.

Re: Bibliography does not print when using biblatex instead of bibtex

[Johannes Böttcher]

On 06/30/2015 11:19 AM, Michael Berger wrote:

PS: as advised under "Known problems" I did 'biber --cache' which resulted in:
"No cache - you are not running the PAR: Packer executable of biber"

What might be the problem here?



Do you have up-to-date versions of biblatex (3.0) and biber (2.1)?


Johannes