Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
7 mar 2007 kl. 19.14 skrev Paul A. Rubin: Peter Ljunglöf wrote: * The most important thing is the function 'word-forward' (bound to C-right). Previously it moved the cursor to the end of the current word (or the next if it already was at the end). That's the standard behaviour in most word processors and text editors. Now the cursor is moved to the beginning of the next word. I just checked a few programs. C-right moves the cursor to the _start_ of the next word in: MS Office; WordPerfect; NoteTab; MS Notepad; and MS Wordpad. This is on Win XP; maybe things work differently on a Mac? Hmm, interesting - it looks like there's a difference between Mac and Win. On my Mac (OSX 10.4), the behaviour is the following: Moved to the _start_ of the _next_ word: * Word 2004 for Mac * OpenOffice and NeoOffice Moved to the _end_ of the _current_ word: * TextEdit * Mac Mail * GNUMail * TeXShop * BibDesk * Emacs (both CarbonEmacs and AquamacsEmacs) * Script Editor * Mozilla Seamonkey HTML Composer Anyway, I'm okay with moving the cursor to the start of the next word, _except_ in the following cases: * When there's a punctuation character inbetween - then it should stop before the dot, comma, semicolon, dash or whatever. * When there's inline math - then it should stop before the math. This is in fact what MS Word does, and that's why Word is not annoying (in the cursor moving sense, that is:) So, that is my humble wish - to get decent cursor movement back into LyX... regards, Peter ___ _ __ __ _ _ _ peter ljunglöf, göteborgs universitet
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
7 mar 2007 kl. 22.40 skrev Jean-Marc Lasgouttes: Gunnar == Gunnar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: moved to the beginning of the next word. Apart from being just odd, there's a real problem with that: If I have the text firstword [MATH] secondword, and the cursor is at firstword, then I can not move (quickly) to the beginning of the [MATH] stuff, since C-right just moves past the math to the beginning of secondword. Was this change intentional, or just a mistake? Gunnar I think I reported it as a bug, but it was nothing that could Gunnar be done, if I remember correctly. But I agree that it would be Gunnar good if it didn't behave that way. Well, the intention is that a word is a word. If you want Ctrl+Right to go to math insets too, would you like it to consider math insets for spell checking too. I guess the answer is no :) So what would be the precise definition of a word for jumping? We do not want all insets, do we? And we have to settle on a definition that pleases _everybody_. There are two alternatives: * The Windows way: move to the start of the next word OR punctuation mark (or inline math), whichever comes first. * The MacOS way: move to the end of the current word. I'm okay with either, but not with the current implementation. regards, Peter ___ _ __ __ _ _ _ peter ljunglöf, göteborgs universitet
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
7 mar 2007 kl. 19.14 skrev Paul A. Rubin: Peter Ljunglöf wrote: * The most important thing is the function 'word-forward' (bound to C-right). Previously it moved the cursor to the end of the current word (or the next if it already was at the end). That's the standard behaviour in most word processors and text editors. Now the cursor is moved to the beginning of the next word. I just checked a few programs. C-right moves the cursor to the _start_ of the next word in: MS Office; WordPerfect; NoteTab; MS Notepad; and MS Wordpad. This is on Win XP; maybe things work differently on a Mac? Hmm, interesting - it looks like there's a difference between Mac and Win. On my Mac (OSX 10.4), the behaviour is the following: Moved to the _start_ of the _next_ word: * Word 2004 for Mac * OpenOffice and NeoOffice Moved to the _end_ of the _current_ word: * TextEdit * Mac Mail * GNUMail * TeXShop * BibDesk * Emacs (both CarbonEmacs and AquamacsEmacs) * Script Editor * Mozilla Seamonkey HTML Composer Anyway, I'm okay with moving the cursor to the start of the next word, _except_ in the following cases: * When there's a punctuation character inbetween - then it should stop before the dot, comma, semicolon, dash or whatever. * When there's inline math - then it should stop before the math. This is in fact what MS Word does, and that's why Word is not annoying (in the cursor moving sense, that is:) So, that is my humble wish - to get decent cursor movement back into LyX... regards, Peter ___ _ __ __ _ _ _ peter ljunglöf, göteborgs universitet
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
7 mar 2007 kl. 22.40 skrev Jean-Marc Lasgouttes: Gunnar == Gunnar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: moved to the beginning of the next word. Apart from being just odd, there's a real problem with that: If I have the text firstword [MATH] secondword, and the cursor is at firstword, then I can not move (quickly) to the beginning of the [MATH] stuff, since C-right just moves past the math to the beginning of secondword. Was this change intentional, or just a mistake? Gunnar I think I reported it as a bug, but it was nothing that could Gunnar be done, if I remember correctly. But I agree that it would be Gunnar good if it didn't behave that way. Well, the intention is that a word is a word. If you want Ctrl+Right to go to math insets too, would you like it to consider math insets for spell checking too. I guess the answer is no :) So what would be the precise definition of a word for jumping? We do not want all insets, do we? And we have to settle on a definition that pleases _everybody_. There are two alternatives: * The Windows way: move to the start of the next word OR punctuation mark (or inline math), whichever comes first. * The MacOS way: move to the end of the current word. I'm okay with either, but not with the current implementation. regards, Peter ___ _ __ __ _ _ _ peter ljunglöf, göteborgs universitet
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
7 mar 2007 kl. 19.14 skrev Paul A. Rubin: Peter Ljunglöf wrote: * The most important thing is the function 'word-forward' (bound to C-right). Previously it moved the cursor to the end of the current word (or the next if it already was at the end). That's the standard behaviour in most word processors and text editors. Now the cursor is moved to the beginning of the next word. I just checked a few programs. C-right moves the cursor to the _start_ of the next word in: MS Office; WordPerfect; NoteTab; MS Notepad; and MS Wordpad. This is on Win XP; maybe things work differently on a Mac? Hmm, interesting - it looks like there's a difference between Mac and Win. On my Mac (OSX 10.4), the behaviour is the following: Moved to the _start_ of the _next_ word: * Word 2004 for Mac * OpenOffice and NeoOffice Moved to the _end_ of the _current_ word: * TextEdit * Mac Mail * GNUMail * TeXShop * BibDesk * Emacs (both CarbonEmacs and AquamacsEmacs) * Script Editor * Mozilla Seamonkey HTML Composer Anyway, I'm okay with moving the cursor to the start of the next word, _except_ in the following cases: * When there's a punctuation character inbetween - then it should stop before the dot, comma, semicolon, dash or whatever. * When there's inline math - then it should stop before the math. This is in fact what MS Word does, and that's why Word is not annoying (in the cursor moving sense, that is:) So, that is my humble wish - to get decent cursor movement back into LyX... regards, Peter ___ _ __ __ _ _ _ peter ljunglöf, göteborgs universitet
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
7 mar 2007 kl. 22.40 skrev Jean-Marc Lasgouttes: "Gunnar" == Gunnar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: moved to the beginning of the next word. Apart from being just odd, there's a real problem with that: If I have the text "firstword [MATH] secondword", and the cursor is at "firstword", then I can not move (quickly) to the beginning of the [MATH] stuff, since C-right just moves past the math to the beginning of "secondword". Was this change intentional, or just a mistake? Gunnar> I think I reported it as a bug, but it was nothing that could Gunnar> be done, if I remember correctly. But I agree that it would be Gunnar> good if it didn't behave that way. Well, the intention is that a word is a word. If you want Ctrl+Right to go to math insets too, would you like it to consider math insets for spell checking too. I guess the answer is no :) So what would be the precise definition of a word for jumping? We do not want all insets, do we? And we have to settle on a definition that pleases _everybody_. There are two alternatives: * The Windows way: move to the start of the next word OR punctuation mark (or inline math), whichever comes first. * The MacOS way: move to the end of the current word. I'm okay with either, but not with the current implementation. regards, Peter ___ _ __ __ _ _ _ peter ljunglöf, göteborgs universitet
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
Peter Ljunglöf wrote: * The most important thing is the function 'word-forward' (bound to C-right). Previously it moved the cursor to the end of the current word (or the next if it already was at the end). That's the standard behaviour in most word processors and text editors. Now the cursor is moved to the beginning of the next word. I just checked a few programs. C-right moves the cursor to the _start_ of the next word in: MS Office; WordPerfect; NoteTab; MS Notepad; and MS Wordpad. This is on Win XP; maybe things work differently on a Mac? /Paul
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
On Mar 7, 2007, at 1:14 PM, Paul A. Rubin wrote: Peter Ljunglöf wrote: * The most important thing is the function 'word-forward' (bound to C-right). Previously it moved the cursor to the end of the current word (or the next if it already was at the end). That's the standard behaviour in most word processors and text editors. Now the cursor is moved to the beginning of the next word. I just checked a few programs. C-right moves the cursor to the _start_ of the next word in: MS Office; WordPerfect; NoteTab; MS Notepad; and MS Wordpad. This is on Win XP; maybe things work differently on a Mac? Works this way as well on Mac. I think LyX's behavior ought to be changed to conform to this standard. (Are things different on Linux?) Bennett
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
Bennett Helm wrote: (Are things different on Linux?) No (not in OpenOffice, KWord and TextMaker; I don't have Abiword). Jürgen
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
On Wednesday 07 March 2007 6:37:14 pm Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: Bennett Helm wrote: (Are things different on Linux?) No (not in OpenOffice, KWord and TextMaker; I don't have Abiword). Not even in emacs. ;-) But vim behaves like lyx. Jürgen -- José Abílio
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
Bennett Helm wrote: On Mar 7, 2007, at 1:14 PM, Paul A. Rubin wrote: Peter Ljunglöf wrote: * The most important thing is the function 'word-forward' (bound to C-right). Previously it moved the cursor to the end of the current word (or the next if it already was at the end). That's the standard behaviour in most word processors and text editors. Now the cursor is moved to the beginning of the next word. I just checked a few programs. C-right moves the cursor to the _start_ of the next word in: MS Office; WordPerfect; NoteTab; MS Notepad; and MS Wordpad. This is on Win XP; maybe things work differently on a Mac? Works this way as well on Mac. I think LyX's behavior ought to be changed to conform to this standard. (Are things different on Linux?) It already does conform. /Paul
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
moved to the beginning of the next word. Apart from being just odd, there's a real problem with that: If I have the text firstword [MATH] secondword, and the cursor is at firstword, then I can not move (quickly) to the beginning of the [MATH] stuff, since C-right just moves past the math to the beginning of secondword. Was this change intentional, or just a mistake? I think I reported it as a bug, but it was nothing that could be done, if I remember correctly. But I agree that it would be good if it didn't behave that way.
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
Gunnar == Gunnar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: moved to the beginning of the next word. Apart from being just odd, there's a real problem with that: If I have the text firstword [MATH] secondword, and the cursor is at firstword, then I can not move (quickly) to the beginning of the [MATH] stuff, since C-right just moves past the math to the beginning of secondword. Was this change intentional, or just a mistake? Gunnar I think I reported it as a bug, but it was nothing that could Gunnar be done, if I remember correctly. But I agree that it would be Gunnar good if it didn't behave that way. Well, the intention is that a word is a word. If you want Ctrl+Right to go to math insets too, would you like it to consider math insets for spell checking too. I guess the answer is no :) So what would be the precise definition of a word for jumping? We do not want all insets, do we? And we have to settle on a definition that pleases _everybody_. JMarc
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
Well, the intention is that a word is a word. If you want Ctrl+Right to go to math insets too, would you like it to consider math insets for spell checking too. I guess the answer is no :) Well, I think LyX ought to use Maple to check it for other errors than just spelling ;-) So what would be the precise definition of a word for jumping? We do not want all insets, do we? And we have to settle on a definition that pleases _everybody_. It would be fine with me if it consider the entire math box to be like a word, so that if we have the text foo bar $x=y$ cat dog with the cursor between foo bar, pressing CTRL+Right would move cursor between bar and the mathbox (illustrated with $x=y$ above). Pressing CTRL+Right once more would move cursor to between the mathbox and the word cat. Inside the mathboxes it is a different thing to move around. Inside I think it works very well (except for some special examples with formulas where you can have the cursor moving back and forward (or up and down) repeatedly if you press the same arrow key). But mostly, very nice. I think we have had this discussion earlier, Jean-Marc. But the bugdatabase seems to be down at the moment. Regards Gunnar.
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
Peter Ljunglöf wrote: * The most important thing is the function 'word-forward' (bound to C-right). Previously it moved the cursor to the end of the current word (or the next if it already was at the end). That's the standard behaviour in most word processors and text editors. Now the cursor is moved to the beginning of the next word. I just checked a few programs. C-right moves the cursor to the _start_ of the next word in: MS Office; WordPerfect; NoteTab; MS Notepad; and MS Wordpad. This is on Win XP; maybe things work differently on a Mac? /Paul
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
On Mar 7, 2007, at 1:14 PM, Paul A. Rubin wrote: Peter Ljunglöf wrote: * The most important thing is the function 'word-forward' (bound to C-right). Previously it moved the cursor to the end of the current word (or the next if it already was at the end). That's the standard behaviour in most word processors and text editors. Now the cursor is moved to the beginning of the next word. I just checked a few programs. C-right moves the cursor to the _start_ of the next word in: MS Office; WordPerfect; NoteTab; MS Notepad; and MS Wordpad. This is on Win XP; maybe things work differently on a Mac? Works this way as well on Mac. I think LyX's behavior ought to be changed to conform to this standard. (Are things different on Linux?) Bennett
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
Bennett Helm wrote: (Are things different on Linux?) No (not in OpenOffice, KWord and TextMaker; I don't have Abiword). Jürgen
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
On Wednesday 07 March 2007 6:37:14 pm Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: Bennett Helm wrote: (Are things different on Linux?) No (not in OpenOffice, KWord and TextMaker; I don't have Abiword). Not even in emacs. ;-) But vim behaves like lyx. Jürgen -- José Abílio
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
Bennett Helm wrote: On Mar 7, 2007, at 1:14 PM, Paul A. Rubin wrote: Peter Ljunglöf wrote: * The most important thing is the function 'word-forward' (bound to C-right). Previously it moved the cursor to the end of the current word (or the next if it already was at the end). That's the standard behaviour in most word processors and text editors. Now the cursor is moved to the beginning of the next word. I just checked a few programs. C-right moves the cursor to the _start_ of the next word in: MS Office; WordPerfect; NoteTab; MS Notepad; and MS Wordpad. This is on Win XP; maybe things work differently on a Mac? Works this way as well on Mac. I think LyX's behavior ought to be changed to conform to this standard. (Are things different on Linux?) It already does conform. /Paul
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
moved to the beginning of the next word. Apart from being just odd, there's a real problem with that: If I have the text firstword [MATH] secondword, and the cursor is at firstword, then I can not move (quickly) to the beginning of the [MATH] stuff, since C-right just moves past the math to the beginning of secondword. Was this change intentional, or just a mistake? I think I reported it as a bug, but it was nothing that could be done, if I remember correctly. But I agree that it would be good if it didn't behave that way.
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
Gunnar == Gunnar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: moved to the beginning of the next word. Apart from being just odd, there's a real problem with that: If I have the text firstword [MATH] secondword, and the cursor is at firstword, then I can not move (quickly) to the beginning of the [MATH] stuff, since C-right just moves past the math to the beginning of secondword. Was this change intentional, or just a mistake? Gunnar I think I reported it as a bug, but it was nothing that could Gunnar be done, if I remember correctly. But I agree that it would be Gunnar good if it didn't behave that way. Well, the intention is that a word is a word. If you want Ctrl+Right to go to math insets too, would you like it to consider math insets for spell checking too. I guess the answer is no :) So what would be the precise definition of a word for jumping? We do not want all insets, do we? And we have to settle on a definition that pleases _everybody_. JMarc
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
Well, the intention is that a word is a word. If you want Ctrl+Right to go to math insets too, would you like it to consider math insets for spell checking too. I guess the answer is no :) Well, I think LyX ought to use Maple to check it for other errors than just spelling ;-) So what would be the precise definition of a word for jumping? We do not want all insets, do we? And we have to settle on a definition that pleases _everybody_. It would be fine with me if it consider the entire math box to be like a word, so that if we have the text foo bar $x=y$ cat dog with the cursor between foo bar, pressing CTRL+Right would move cursor between bar and the mathbox (illustrated with $x=y$ above). Pressing CTRL+Right once more would move cursor to between the mathbox and the word cat. Inside the mathboxes it is a different thing to move around. Inside I think it works very well (except for some special examples with formulas where you can have the cursor moving back and forward (or up and down) repeatedly if you press the same arrow key). But mostly, very nice. I think we have had this discussion earlier, Jean-Marc. But the bugdatabase seems to be down at the moment. Regards Gunnar.
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
Peter Ljunglöf wrote: * The most important thing is the function 'word-forward' (bound to C-right). Previously it moved the cursor to the end of the current word (or the next if it already was at the end). That's the standard behaviour in most word processors and text editors. Now the cursor is moved to the beginning of the next word. I just checked a few programs. C-right moves the cursor to the _start_ of the next word in: MS Office; WordPerfect; NoteTab; MS Notepad; and MS Wordpad. This is on Win XP; maybe things work differently on a Mac? /Paul
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
On Mar 7, 2007, at 1:14 PM, Paul A. Rubin wrote: Peter Ljunglöf wrote: * The most important thing is the function 'word-forward' (bound to C-right). Previously it moved the cursor to the end of the current word (or the next if it already was at the end). That's the standard behaviour in most word processors and text editors. Now the cursor is moved to the beginning of the next word. I just checked a few programs. C-right moves the cursor to the _start_ of the next word in: MS Office; WordPerfect; NoteTab; MS Notepad; and MS Wordpad. This is on Win XP; maybe things work differently on a Mac? Works this way as well on Mac. I think LyX's behavior ought to be changed to conform to this standard. (Are things different on Linux?) Bennett
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
Bennett Helm wrote: > (Are things different on Linux?) No (not in OpenOffice, KWord and TextMaker; I don't have Abiword). Jürgen
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
On Wednesday 07 March 2007 6:37:14 pm Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: > Bennett Helm wrote: > > (Are things different on Linux?) > > No (not in OpenOffice, KWord and TextMaker; I don't have Abiword). Not even in emacs. ;-) But vim behaves like lyx. > Jürgen -- José Abílio
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
Bennett Helm wrote: On Mar 7, 2007, at 1:14 PM, Paul A. Rubin wrote: Peter Ljunglöf wrote: * The most important thing is the function 'word-forward' (bound to C-right). Previously it moved the cursor to the end of the current word (or the next if it already was at the end). That's the standard behaviour in most word processors and text editors. Now the cursor is moved to the beginning of the next word. I just checked a few programs. C-right moves the cursor to the _start_ of the next word in: MS Office; WordPerfect; NoteTab; MS Notepad; and MS Wordpad. This is on Win XP; maybe things work differently on a Mac? Works this way as well on Mac. I think LyX's behavior ought to be changed to conform to this standard. (Are things different on Linux?) It already does conform. /Paul
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
> moved to the beginning of the next word. Apart from being just odd, > there's a real problem with that: If I have the text "firstword > [MATH] secondword", and the cursor is at "firstword", then I can not > move (quickly) to the beginning of the [MATH] stuff, since C-right > just moves past the math to the beginning of "secondword". > > Was this change intentional, or just a mistake? I think I reported it as a bug, but it was nothing that could be done, if I remember correctly. But I agree that it would be good if it didn't behave that way.
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
> "Gunnar" == Gunnar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> moved to the beginning of the next word. Apart from being just odd, >> there's a real problem with that: If I have the text "firstword >> [MATH] secondword", and the cursor is at "firstword", then I can >> not move (quickly) to the beginning of the [MATH] stuff, since >> C-right just moves past the math to the beginning of "secondword". >> >> Was this change intentional, or just a mistake? Gunnar> I think I reported it as a bug, but it was nothing that could Gunnar> be done, if I remember correctly. But I agree that it would be Gunnar> good if it didn't behave that way. Well, the intention is that a word is a word. If you want Ctrl+Right to go to math insets too, would you like it to consider math insets for spell checking too. I guess the answer is no :) So what would be the precise definition of a word for jumping? We do not want all insets, do we? And we have to settle on a definition that pleases _everybody_. JMarc
Re: annoying behaviour in 1.4
> Well, the intention is that a word is a word. If you want Ctrl+Right > to go to math insets too, would you like it to consider math insets > for spell checking too. I guess the answer is no :) Well, I think LyX ought to use Maple to check it for other errors than just spelling ;-) > So what would be the precise definition of a word for jumping? We do > not want all insets, do we? And we have to settle on a definition that > pleases _everybody_. It would be fine with me if it consider the entire "math box" to be like a word, so that if we have the text foo bar $x=y$ cat dog with the cursor between foo bar, pressing CTRL+Right would move cursor between bar and the mathbox (illustrated with $x=y$ above). Pressing CTRL+Right once more would move cursor to between the mathbox and the word cat. Inside the mathboxes it is a different thing to move around. Inside I think it works very well (except for some special examples with formulas where you can have the cursor moving back and forward (or up and down) repeatedly if you press the same arrow key). But mostly, very nice. I think we have had this discussion earlier, Jean-Marc. But the bugdatabase seems to be down at the moment. Regards Gunnar.
