Re: Reprinted material

[rgheck]

Florin Oprina wrote:

So is there any way in bibtex + natbib to get the "Author 1976 [1600]"
citation without messing with the year field in the bibtex database? I
thought the "key" field would do the job, but is seems that if you have an
"author", it is ignored.

  
Yes, you can get that, but not without writing your own BibTeX or 
BibLaTeX style. The latter is easier than the former, but neither is for 
the meek.


Richard

Re: Reprinted material

[Florin Oprina]

So is there any way in bibtex + natbib to get the "Author 1976 [1600]"
citation without messing with the year field in the bibtex database? I
thought the "key" field would do the job, but is seems that if you have an
"author", it is ignored.

On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Julio Rojas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Thanks a lot guys. I'll stick to the "Note" field then.
> -
> Julio Rojas
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 10:34 PM,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Julio Rojas wrote:
> >
> >> Thank you all for your answers, they have been of great help. Still,
> >> the main technical question, the how do I do it in BibTeX, remains
> >> unanswered. Is there a "Note" or "Previously Published" field in
> >> BibTeX? How do I solve this problem using the available fields?
> >>
> > There are three different problems :
> >
> >  - edition number. For example, B. Obama, Hope, hope, etc..., New York :
> > Faber, 2008, 4th edition
> > You use there the edition field in a bib entry with an integer, most
> > European styles put the number in superscript after or before the year
> > (German way). The edition field works with most bibtex styles
> >
> >  - reprint (meaning a photomecanical reproduction of an old book)
> >
> > Avicenna, Liber canonis, Venice, 1507 (reprint Hildesheim : Olms Verlag,
> > 1964)
> >
> > Then you have to use Biblatex that adds to the bib file fields an
> origyear,
> > origlocation, origtitle fields for reprint information or translation.
> The
> > new chicago biblatex style uses them.
> >
> >  - translation
> > J. L. Borges, Histoire universelle de l'infamie, Paris : Christian
> > Bourgeois, 1985 (orig. Historia universal de la infamia, Buenos Aires,
> > 1935)
> >
> > Possible with the Biblatex origyear, origlocation, origtitle with some
> macro
> > magic.
> >
> >
> > If the bibliographic style that you want to use does not mandate to put
> the
> > reprint / translation information in the footnotes citation but you just
> > want to add this information at the end of a bibliographic entry in the
> > ending bibliography then use the note field.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: Reprinted material

[Julio Rojas]

Thanks a lot guys. I'll stick to the "Note" field then.
-
Julio Rojas
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 10:34 PM,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Julio Rojas wrote:
>
>> Thank you all for your answers, they have been of great help. Still,
>> the main technical question, the how do I do it in BibTeX, remains
>> unanswered. Is there a "Note" or "Previously Published" field in
>> BibTeX? How do I solve this problem using the available fields?
>>
> There are three different problems :
>
>  - edition number. For example, B. Obama, Hope, hope, etc..., New York :
> Faber, 2008, 4th edition
> You use there the edition field in a bib entry with an integer, most
> European styles put the number in superscript after or before the year
> (German way). The edition field works with most bibtex styles
>
>  - reprint (meaning a photomecanical reproduction of an old book)
>
> Avicenna, Liber canonis, Venice, 1507 (reprint Hildesheim : Olms Verlag,
> 1964)
>
> Then you have to use Biblatex that adds to the bib file fields an origyear,
> origlocation, origtitle fields for reprint information or translation. The
> new chicago biblatex style uses them.
>
>  - translation
> J. L. Borges, Histoire universelle de l'infamie, Paris : Christian
> Bourgeois, 1985 (orig. Historia universal de la infamia, Buenos Aires,
> 1935)
>
> Possible with the Biblatex origyear, origlocation, origtitle with some macro
> magic.
>
>
> If the bibliographic style that you want to use does not mandate to put the
> reprint / translation information in the footnotes citation but you just
> want to add this information at the end of a bibliographic entry in the
> ending bibliography then use the note field.
>
>
>
>

Re: Reprinted material

[cmiramon]

Julio Rojas wrote:

> Thank you all for your answers, they have been of great help. Still,
> the main technical question, the how do I do it in BibTeX, remains
> unanswered. Is there a "Note" or "Previously Published" field in
> BibTeX? How do I solve this problem using the available fields?
> 
There are three different problems :

 - edition number. For example, B. Obama, Hope, hope, etc..., New York :
Faber, 2008, 4th edition 
You use there the edition field in a bib entry with an integer, most
European styles put the number in superscript after or before the year
(German way). The edition field works with most bibtex styles

 - reprint (meaning a photomecanical reproduction of an old book)
  
Avicenna, Liber canonis, Venice, 1507 (reprint Hildesheim : Olms Verlag,
1964)

Then you have to use Biblatex that adds to the bib file fields an origyear,
origlocation, origtitle fields for reprint information or translation. The
new chicago biblatex style uses them.

 - translation 
J. L. Borges, Histoire universelle de l'infamie, Paris : Christian
Bourgeois, 1985 (orig. Historia universal de la infamia, Buenos Aires,
1935)

Possible with the Biblatex origyear, origlocation, origtitle with some macro
magic.


If the bibliographic style that you want to use does not mandate to put the
reprint / translation information in the footnotes citation but you just
want to add this information at the end of a bibliographic entry in the
ending bibliography then use the note field.

 

Re: Reprinted material

[Michael Wojcik]

killermike wrote:
>>   
> This is something I have have often wondered about too. For example, if
> you have a book that was written in 1600 but your copy is a 1976
> paperback, what do you put for the date?

That's part of the protocol you're using for citing sources, which is
a question for you and your editor(s), if any. Some disciplines have
particular conventions, which are often formalized in style guides.

In MLA style, for example, works are sometimes cited using the actual
printing date, with the first-publication date in square brackets:
"1976 [1600]". That's because minute details of the text are sometimes
important in literary and textual studies, and typographical errors,
spelling changes, and the like can be introduced in subsequent
printings. (Sometimes there are even bigger changes; James apparently
rewrote the ending to _Daisy Miller_ at some point between editions,
so there are two versions of the novel out there.)

What it comes down to, though, is that there are no natural rules for
how to cite anything. There are more-or-less arbitrary rules created
by various publishing houses, professional organizations, journals,
editors, and the like; there are guidelines and style guides; there
are the whims of individuals.

So no one can give you a universal rule for a specific sort of
citation. It depends on who's going to be reading it, and what they'll
accept.

-- 
Michael Wojcik
Micro Focus
Rhetoric & Writing, Michigan State University

Re: Reprinted material

[Florin Oprina]

there's a "note" field you can use to input miscelaneous information.

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 4:10 PM, Julio Rojas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thank you all for your answers, they have been of great help. Still,
> the main technical question, the how do I do it in BibTeX, remains
> unanswered. Is there a "Note" or "Previously Published" field in
> BibTeX? How do I solve this problem using the available fields?
>
> P.S.: I know this kind of questions is a little "off topic" for this
> list, but guys should be proud of how helpful you arem not only with
> LyX, but with the whole LaTeX package.
> -
> Julio Rojas
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 8:24 PM, rgheck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> killermike wrote:
>>>
>>> Julio Rojas wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi, does anyone know hot to handle reprinted material using Bibtex? I
>>>> have a book which has been reprinted. Should I add the year of the
>>>> original printing to the title? Should I just stick to the reprinted
>>>> book information? Or is there a "proper" way to cite reprinted books
>>>> using Bibtex.
>>>>
>>>
>>> This is something I have have often wondered about too. For example, if
>>> you have a book that was written in 1600 but your copy is a 1976 paperback,
>>> what do you put for the date?
>>>
>> The date is supposed to be the publication date. So it depends upon exactly
>> what sort of "reprinting" it is. If it's JUST a reprinting, then the
>> original date will usually be appropriate; if it's more than that, then the
>> later one. Generally, I tend to look at the copyright date and use that, and
>> then you can add a note, as Rich suggested, if that seems appropriate.
>>
>> In the case you've mentioned, one would suppose there will have been
>> substantial editing and such. So one would put "1976", to identify that
>> particular edition.
>>
>> rh
>>
>>
>

Re: Reprinted material

[Julio Rojas]

Thank you all for your answers, they have been of great help. Still,
the main technical question, the how do I do it in BibTeX, remains
unanswered. Is there a "Note" or "Previously Published" field in
BibTeX? How do I solve this problem using the available fields?

P.S.: I know this kind of questions is a little "off topic" for this
list, but guys should be proud of how helpful you arem not only with
LyX, but with the whole LaTeX package.
-
Julio Rojas
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 8:24 PM, rgheck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> killermike wrote:
>>
>> Julio Rojas wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi, does anyone know hot to handle reprinted material using Bibtex? I
>>> have a book which has been reprinted. Should I add the year of the
>>> original printing to the title? Should I just stick to the reprinted
>>> book information? Or is there a "proper" way to cite reprinted books
>>> using Bibtex.
>>>
>>
>> This is something I have have often wondered about too. For example, if
>> you have a book that was written in 1600 but your copy is a 1976 paperback,
>> what do you put for the date?
>>
> The date is supposed to be the publication date. So it depends upon exactly
> what sort of "reprinting" it is. If it's JUST a reprinting, then the
> original date will usually be appropriate; if it's more than that, then the
> later one. Generally, I tend to look at the copyright date and use that, and
> then you can add a note, as Rich suggested, if that seems appropriate.
>
> In the case you've mentioned, one would suppose there will have been
> substantial editing and such. So one would put "1976", to identify that
> particular edition.
>
> rh
>
>

Re: Reprinted material

[rgheck]

killermike wrote:

Julio Rojas wrote:

Hi, does anyone know hot to handle reprinted material using Bibtex? I
have a book which has been reprinted. Should I add the year of the
original printing to the title? Should I just stick to the reprinted
book information? Or is there a "proper" way to cite reprinted books
using Bibtex.
  
This is something I have have often wondered about too. For example, 
if you have a book that was written in 1600 but your copy is a 1976 
paperback, what do you put for the date?


The date is supposed to be the publication date. So it depends upon 
exactly what sort of "reprinting" it is. If it's JUST a reprinting, then 
the original date will usually be appropriate; if it's more than that, 
then the later one. Generally, I tend to look at the copyright date and 
use that, and then you can add a note, as Rich suggested, if that seems 
appropriate.


In the case you've mentioned, one would suppose there will have been 
substantial editing and such. So one would put "1976", to identify that 
particular edition.


rh

Re: Reprinted material

[Florin Oprina]

True, this seems to be the most honest way. However, if I see the
citation: Darwin (1997), it looks a bit strange, like Darwin's still
alive and publishing . On the othe hand, if I see Darwin (1859), I now
it's "The Origin of Species", so I won't even have to look at the
bibliography.

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Rich Shepard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008, killermike wrote:
>
>> This is something I have have often wondered about too. For example, if
>> you have a book that was written in 1600 but your copy is a 1976
>> paperback, what do you put for the date?
>
>  I would use ". 1976. . . Reprint of original 1600
> manuscript." That's accurate and fully discloses all information.
>
> Rich
>
> --
> Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.   |  IntegrityCredibility
> Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.|Innovation
>  Voice: 503-667-4517  Fax: 503-667-8863
>

Re: Reprinted material

[Rich Shepard]

On Thu, 28 Aug 2008, killermike wrote:


This is something I have have often wondered about too. For example, if
you have a book that was written in 1600 but your copy is a 1976
paperback, what do you put for the date?


  I would use ". 1976. . . Reprint of original 1600
manuscript." That's accurate and fully discloses all information.

Rich

--
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.   |  IntegrityCredibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.|Innovation
 Voice: 503-667-4517  Fax: 503-667-8863

Re: Reprinted material

[killermike]

Julio Rojas wrote:

Hi, does anyone know hot to handle reprinted material using Bibtex? I
have a book which has been reprinted. Should I add the year of the
original printing to the title? Should I just stick to the reprinted
book information? Or is there a "proper" way to cite reprinted books
using Bibtex.
  
This is something I have have often wondered about too. For example, if 
you have a book that was written in 1600 but your copy is a 1976 
paperback, what do you put for the date?


--
http://www.unmusic.co.uk Michael Reed -- technology, gender, and geek culture 
freelance writer

Re: Reprinted material

[Rich Shepard]

On Thu, 28 Aug 2008, Julio Rojas wrote:


Hi, does anyone know hot to handle reprinted material using Bibtex? I have
a book which has been reprinted. Should I add the year of the original
printing to the title? Should I just stick to the reprinted book
information? Or is there a "proper" way to cite reprinted books using
Bibtex.


Julio,

  In general one cites the specific document used. If I correctly understand
your situation, you might consider putting the original source at the end of
the citation, using a reference such as, "Originally published as ...". Of
course, many publications have their own perferred approaches so you might
enquire of them. I don't know off hand if the Chicago Manual of Style covers
this situation.

Rich

--
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.   |  IntegrityCredibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.|Innovation
<http://www.appl-ecosys.com> Voice: 503-667-4517  Fax: 503-667-8863

Reprinted material

[Julio Rojas]

Hi, does anyone know hot to handle reprinted material using Bibtex? I
have a book which has been reprinted. Should I add the year of the
original printing to the title? Should I just stick to the reprinted
book information? Or is there a "proper" way to cite reprinted books
using Bibtex.

Thx in advance.
-
Julio Rojas
[EMAIL PROTECTED]