Re: [M100] TPDD/TPDD2 Timeline

[Peter Noeth]

The TPDD is listed as Available 10/30/85 in the Radio Shack 1986 catalog.

The TPDD2 - First shows up in the Radio Shack 1988 catalog, however it also
shows up in the Portable 100 magazine in the September 1987 issue.

The TRS-80 Microcomputer News was good about availability dates for new
products, but unfortunately it was discontinued in June 1984, before either
of these products were announced.

Regards,

Peter

Re: [M100] TPDD Specifics

[Ken Pettit]

Hee hee,

Yeah, if you want some C++ code, just look in VirtualT:

virtualt/src/tpddserver.cpp
virtualt/src/tpddserver.h

Not sure how I can be more open than that.

Ken

On 7/17/18 7:22 PM, Chris Fezzler wrote:

A++

On Tuesday, July 17, 2018, 8:54:00 PM EDT, Kurt McCullum 
 wrote:



Sorry guys, but I'm jumping up on the soap box for this one. I'm quite 
stunned by this email.


First, there is the official protocol put out by Tandy "Software 
Manual For Portable Disk Drive" 26-3808 
http://manx-docs.org/mirror/harte/Radio%20Shack/TRS-80%20Model%20100%20Portable%20Disk.pdf
There is a full writeup on bitchin100.com 
http://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=TPDD_Base_Protocol
And if that's not enough there is the TPDD2 sector access protocol 
writeup 
www.club100.org/memfiles/index.php?action=downloadfile&filename=TPDD2-Sector%20Access.txt&directory=Kurt%20McCullum/TPDD%20Client& 



To suggest that somehow those of us who have created TPDD emulators 
are somehow hiding that information is silly. Ken and John have done a 
huge amount of work and documentation and that has been for the 
'benefit' of the Model-T community. LaddieAlpha/mComm/Desklink and 
more are freely available for the 'benefit' of the Model-T community. 
If others want to create a low cost TPDD emulator, I'm all for it.


We are not hiding any secrets here. Stepping down from the soap box now.

Kurt


On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, at 4:37 PM, John Gardner wrote:

How about those who've benefited from the research of others,

or even the researchers themselves, publishing the protocol?

Nah..."8)

Re: [M100] TPDD Specifics

[John R. Hogerhuis]

Hello Jimmy,

I'm the author of LaddieAlpha, and I maintain DLPlus. You are welcome to
look at any of that source to understand the protocol.

I haven't had any issue with flow control. Set DSR and CTS so that
unpatched TS-DOS "cable detect" insanity is satisfied. Set baud to 19200,
since that's what a TPDD-2 uses. You can support 9600 baud if you want.

There is no flow control for TPDD per se. It's a request-response protocol.
There's no need for flow control because neither side can be "overrun" in a
request response protocol like TPDD file access protocol.

That said, if you don't respond quickly enough to TS-DOS it will time out
on the tpdd service.

Good luck with your project,

-- John.

Re: [M100] TPDD Specifics

[Chris Fezzler]

 Go for it and have fun and share your experience along the way.  
On Tuesday, July 17, 2018, 9:28:39 PM EDT, c646581  
wrote:  
 
 I found the page on the wiki explaining DCD/DSR along with the other flow 
control quirks. Once I corrected that, it started behaving correctly.
I'll look into that TPDD Arduino project, since that happens to be the same 
platform I'm using for my emulator. It kind of feels like I'm re-inventing the 
wheel, but there are some features I'd like to add to my emulator that that 
project lacks.
Thanks for all of the extra info! I shouldn't have as much reverse-engineering 
to do now.
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 20:54 Kurt McCullum  wrote:

Sorry guys, but I'm jumping up on the soap box for this one. I'm quite stunned 
by this email.

First, there is the official protocol put out by Tandy "Software Manual For 
Portable Disk Drive" 26-3808 
http://manx-docs.org/mirror/harte/Radio%20Shack/TRS-80%20Model%20100%20Portable%20Disk.pdf
There is a full writeup on bitchin100.com 
http://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=TPDD_Base_Protocol
And if that's not enough there is the TPDD2 sector access protocol writeup 
www.club100.org/memfiles/index.php?action=downloadfile&filename=TPDD2-Sector%20Access.txt&directory=Kurt%20McCullum/TPDD%20Client&

To suggest that somehow those of us who have created TPDD emulators are somehow 
hiding that information is silly. Ken and John have done a huge amount of work 
and documentation and that has been for the 'benefit' of the Model-T community. 
LaddieAlpha/mComm/Desklink and more are freely available for the 'benefit' of 
the Model-T community. If others want to create a low cost TPDD emulator, I'm 
all for it. 

We are not hiding any secrets here. Stepping down from the soap box now.
Kurt

On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, at 4:37 PM, John Gardner wrote:

How about those who've benefited from the research of others,

or even the researchers themselves,  publishing the protocol?

Nah...    "8)



  

Re: [M100] TPDD Specifics

[Chris Fezzler]

 A++
On Tuesday, July 17, 2018, 8:54:00 PM EDT, Kurt McCullum 
 wrote:  
 
 Sorry guys, but I'm jumping up on the soap box for this one. I'm quite stunned 
by this email.

First, there is the official protocol put out by Tandy "Software Manual For 
Portable Disk Drive" 26-3808 
http://manx-docs.org/mirror/harte/Radio%20Shack/TRS-80%20Model%20100%20Portable%20Disk.pdf
There is a full writeup on bitchin100.com 
http://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=TPDD_Base_Protocol
And if that's not enough there is the TPDD2 sector access protocol writeup 
www.club100.org/memfiles/index.php?action=downloadfile&filename=TPDD2-Sector%20Access.txt&directory=Kurt%20McCullum/TPDD%20Client&

To suggest that somehow those of us who have created TPDD emulators are somehow 
hiding that information is silly. Ken and John have done a huge amount of work 
and documentation and that has been for the 'benefit' of the Model-T community. 
LaddieAlpha/mComm/Desklink and more are freely available for the 'benefit' of 
the Model-T community. If others want to create a low cost TPDD emulator, I'm 
all for it. 

We are not hiding any secrets here. Stepping down from the soap box now.
Kurt

On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, at 4:37 PM, John Gardner wrote:

How about those who've benefited from the research of others,

or even the researchers themselves,  publishing the protocol?

Nah...    "8)


  

Re: [M100] TPDD Specifics

[c646581]

I found the page on the wiki explaining DCD/DSR along with the other flow
control quirks. Once I corrected that, it started behaving correctly.

I'll look into that TPDD Arduino project, since that happens to be the same
platform I'm using for my emulator. It kind of feels like I'm re-inventing
the wheel, but there are some features I'd like to add to my emulator that
that project lacks.

Thanks for all of the extra info! I shouldn't have as much
reverse-engineering to do now.

On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 20:54 Kurt McCullum  wrote:

> Sorry guys, but I'm jumping up on the soap box for this one. I'm quite
> stunned by this email.
>
> First, there is the official protocol put out by Tandy "Software Manual
> For Portable Disk Drive" 26-3808
> http://manx-docs.org/mirror/harte/Radio%20Shack/TRS-80%20Model%20100%20Portable%20Disk.pdf
> There is a full writeup on bitchin100.com
> http://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=TPDD_Base_Protocol
> And if that's not enough there is the TPDD2 sector access protocol writeup
> www.club100.org/memfiles/index.php?action=downloadfile&filename=TPDD2-Sector%20Access.txt&directory=Kurt%20McCullum/TPDD%20Client&
>
> To suggest that somehow those of us who have created TPDD emulators are
> somehow hiding that information is silly. Ken and John have done a huge
> amount of work and documentation and that has been for the 'benefit' of the
> Model-T community. LaddieAlpha/mComm/Desklink and more are freely available
> for the 'benefit' of the Model-T community. If others want to create a low
> cost TPDD emulator, I'm all for it.
>
> We are not hiding any secrets here. Stepping down from the soap box now.
>
> Kurt
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, at 4:37 PM, John Gardner wrote:
>
> How about those who've benefited from the research of others,
>
> or even the researchers themselves,  publishing the protocol?
>
> Nah..."8)
>
>
>

Re: [M100] TPDD Specifics

[Kurt McCullum]

Sorry guys, but I'm jumping up on the soap box for this one. I'm quite
stunned by this email.
First, there is the official protocol put out by Tandy "Software Manual
For Portable Disk Drive" 26-3808
http://manx-docs.org/mirror/harte/Radio%20Shack/TRS-80%20Model%20100%20Portable%20Disk.pdfThere
 is a full writeup on bitchin100.com
http://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=TPDD_Base_ProtocolAnd if that's not 
enough there is the TPDD2 sector access protocol
writeup www.club100.org/memfiles/index.php?action=downloadfile&filename=TPDD2-
Sector%20Access.txt&directory=Kurt%20McCullum/TPDD%20Client&
To suggest that somehow those of us who have created TPDD emulators are
somehow hiding that information is silly. Ken and John have done a huge
amount of work and documentation and that has been for the 'benefit' of
the Model-T community. LaddieAlpha/mComm/Desklink and more are freely
available for the 'benefit' of the Model-T community. If others want to
create a low cost TPDD emulator, I'm all for it.
We are not hiding any secrets here. Stepping down from the soap box now.
Kurt


On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, at 4:37 PM, John Gardner wrote:
> How about those who've benefited from the research of others,
> 
> or even the researchers themselves,  publishing the protocol?
> 
> Nah..."8)

Re: [M100] TPDD Specifics

[Fugu ME100]

Quite a lot of other TPDD emulation software running on just about everything 
you could imagine :)  Lots and lots of M100 owners past and present have picked 
it apart so there should be something on the web to help with your work.   A 
quick web search threw up a few links, a not very exhaustive list is below to 
start with…..

Looking through Rons code on Github https://github.com/rlauzon/arduino-tpdd  
might help understand the protocol.  He also gives a good overview of the 
issues he faced on the Arduino.  This is written for an Arduino so might be 
more accessible to learn about TPDD and run the software.

Then there is DlPlus another TPDD emulator that can be used as a reference 
source.   http://www.bitchin100.com/

Also LaddieAlpha http://bitchin100.com/pub-git/

Another example  http://trs80stuff.net/tpdd/#  in python I think.

A disassembly listing of the code on the TPDD drives is also available 
https://github.com/BiggRanger/Tandy_PDD if you really want to get into the 
details.   Which itself has some useful links.

..and many more…….

From: M100 
mailto:m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com>> 
on behalf of c646581 mailto:c646...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 10:50:58 PM
To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com
Subject: [M100] TPDD Specifics

Hello!

I'm working on a TPDD hardware emulator using low-cost 
off-the-shelf-components. I can't find much online about the specifics of the 
serial connection between the M100 and the TPDD. The TPDD protocol page on the 
wiki mentions 19200/9600 baud, but nothing about flow control or how it 
negotiates the speed.

Based on trial-and-error, I did figure out that hardware flow control is needed 
before TS-DOS will try sending any data. This gives me something to work off 
of, but more details would be great.

Thanks,
Jimmy

Re: [M100] TPDD Specifics

[Kevin Becker]

http://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=TPDD



On Jul 17, 2018, at 7:37 PM, John Gardner  wrote:

How about those who've benefited from the research of others,

or even the researchers themselves,  publishing the protocol?

Nah..."8)

On 7/17/18, you got me  wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, the program Desklink emulates a TPDD. Perhaps a

combination of DOSbox or virtual software running Desklink can help you to

communicate and transfer files to and from a m100. Another program can be

used to capture to/from serial data and reveal protocols for different use

case conditions.



It may be possible to do things the other way around: the virtual m100

program can log serial port data I believe. Perhaps a TPDD could be

connected to the host computer via a serial or usb to  serial adapter?



Any more experienced people with thoughts on this?




From: M100  on behalf of c646581



Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 10:50:58 PM

To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com

Subject: [M100] TPDD Specifics


Hello!


I'm working on a TPDD hardware emulator using low-cost

off-the-shelf-components. I can't find much online about the specifics of

the serial connection between the M100 and the TPDD. The TPDD protocol page

on the wiki mentions 19200/9600 baud, but nothing about flow control or how

it negotiates the speed.


Based on trial-and-error, I did figure out that hardware flow control is

needed before TS-DOS will try sending any data. This gives me something to

work off of, but more details would be great.


Thanks,

Jimmy

Re: [M100] TPDD Specifics

[John Gardner]

How about those who've benefited from the research of others,

or even the researchers themselves,  publishing the protocol?

Nah..."8)

On 7/17/18, you got me  wrote:
> If I'm not mistaken, the program Desklink emulates a TPDD. Perhaps a
> combination of DOSbox or virtual software running Desklink can help you to
> communicate and transfer files to and from a m100. Another program can be
> used to capture to/from serial data and reveal protocols for different use
> case conditions.
>
>
> It may be possible to do things the other way around: the virtual m100
> program can log serial port data I believe. Perhaps a TPDD could be
> connected to the host computer via a serial or usb to  serial adapter?
>
>
> Any more experienced people with thoughts on this?
>
> 
> From: M100  on behalf of c646581
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 10:50:58 PM
> To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com
> Subject: [M100] TPDD Specifics
>
> Hello!
>
> I'm working on a TPDD hardware emulator using low-cost
> off-the-shelf-components. I can't find much online about the specifics of
> the serial connection between the M100 and the TPDD. The TPDD protocol page
> on the wiki mentions 19200/9600 baud, but nothing about flow control or how
> it negotiates the speed.
>
> Based on trial-and-error, I did figure out that hardware flow control is
> needed before TS-DOS will try sending any data. This gives me something to
> work off of, but more details would be great.
>
> Thanks,
> Jimmy
>

Re: [M100] TPDD Specifics

[you got me]

If I'm not mistaken, the program Desklink emulates a TPDD. Perhaps a 
combination of DOSbox or virtual software running Desklink can help you to 
communicate and transfer files to and from a m100. Another program can be used 
to capture to/from serial data and reveal protocols for different use case 
conditions.


It may be possible to do things the other way around: the virtual m100 program 
can log serial port data I believe. Perhaps a TPDD could be connected to the 
host computer via a serial or usb to  serial adapter?


Any more experienced people with thoughts on this?


From: M100  on behalf of c646581 

Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 10:50:58 PM
To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com
Subject: [M100] TPDD Specifics

Hello!

I'm working on a TPDD hardware emulator using low-cost 
off-the-shelf-components. I can't find much online about the specifics of the 
serial connection between the M100 and the TPDD. The TPDD protocol page on the 
wiki mentions 19200/9600 baud, but nothing about flow control or how it 
negotiates the speed.

Based on trial-and-error, I did figure out that hardware flow control is needed 
before TS-DOS will try sending any data. This gives me something to work off 
of, but more details would be great.

Thanks,
Jimmy

[M100] TPDD Specifics

[c646581]

Hello!

I'm working on a TPDD hardware emulator using low-cost
off-the-shelf-components. I can't find much online about the specifics of
the serial connection between the M100 and the TPDD. The TPDD protocol page
on the wiki mentions 19200/9600 baud, but nothing about flow control or how
it negotiates the speed.

Based on trial-and-error, I did figure out that hardware flow control is
needed before TS-DOS will try sending any data. This gives me something to
work off of, but more details would be great.

Thanks,
Jimmy

[M100] TPDD/TPDD2 Timeline

[Kurt McCullum]

Quick question for those who may know. I am looking for when the TPDD
was released and when the TPDD2 was released as it's replacement. All
I've been able to gather so far is that the TPDD was somewhere in 1985
and the TPDD2 was somewhere in 1987. But that is just by scanning
through old issues of the magazines.
Does anybody know?

Kurt