Re: [M100] Best Place to Procure a Tandy 102

[Stephen Adolph]

Personally, I prefer the Model 100.  I have had several Tandy 102s with
defects that were hard to repair.  Model 100 seems to be more reliable long
term.  Other than that, yes, the T102 is a nicer form factor.

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 11:49 PM David N. Hughes-Robinson 
wrote:

> Hello!!
>
> I have recently learned of the model t and have fallen head-over-heals. As
> a full-time python developer, I have enjoyed playing with BASIC and look
> forward to conquering low level programming in 8085 assembly. I live in a
> tiny apartment, so the model t is the only retro-computer I can justify
> space-wise, otherwise I would already filled several desks with old
> computers and disk drives.
>
> Currently I am getting my model t fix by playing with VirtualT but would
> love to get my hands on real hardware. What is the preferred place to get a
> working Tandy 102 with 32k of ram? I’ve been looking on eBay and have found
> a few listings, but many of them are untested or have known flaws. Are
> there any repairs that are easier to perform And therefore worth purchasing
> with a repair in mind? I’ve also seen many more model 100s, but the article
> listing the differences between models on club100.org suggests it is
> better to acquire a 102 than a 100.
>
> I’ve ordered a physical copy of David Leon’s “The TRS-80 Mode 100 Portable
> Computer,” which I look forward to reading and have downloaded tons of
> books off archive.org. That said, I am open to and ready for more reading
> suggestions about the model t and programming for these old micros.
>
> Finally, I would love any tips for writing prose on the model t. Are there
> any particular workflows or BASIC programs you find essential?
>
> Thank you so much in advance. Looking forward to loads of fun with this
> list and the model t.
>
> Best,
> oaguy1

Re: [M100] Best Place to Procure a Tandy 102

[Kurt McCullum]

For writing, T-Word is what I have found to be the most useful. It can be found 
in the SARDINE, UR-II and SARDOS ROMs.

Kurt

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020, at 6:19 PM, David N. Hughes-Robinson wrote:
> Hello!!
> 
> I have recently learned of the model t and have fallen head-over-heals. As a 
> full-time python developer, I have enjoyed playing with BASIC and look 
> forward to conquering low level programming in 8085 assembly. I live in a 
> tiny apartment, so the model t is the only retro-computer I can justify 
> space-wise, otherwise I would already filled several desks with old computers 
> and disk drives.
> 
> Currently I am getting my model t fix by playing with VirtualT but would love 
> to get my hands on real hardware. What is the preferred place to get a 
> working Tandy 102 with 32k of ram? I’ve been looking on eBay and have found a 
> few listings, but many of them are untested or have known flaws. Are there 
> any repairs that are easier to perform And therefore worth purchasing with a 
> repair in mind? I’ve also seen many more model 100s, but the article listing 
> the differences between models on club100.org suggests it is better to 
> acquire a 102 than a 100.
> 
> I’ve ordered a physical copy of David Leon’s “The TRS-80 Mode 100 Portable 
> Computer,” which I look forward to reading and have downloaded tons of books 
> off archive.org. That said, I am open to and ready for more reading 
> suggestions about the model t and programming for these old micros.
> 
> Finally, I would love any tips for writing prose on the model t. Are there 
> any particular workflows or BASIC programs you find essential?
> 
> Thank you so much in advance. Looking forward to loads of fun with this list 
> and the model t.
> 
> Best,
> oaguy1

Re: [M100] Best Place to Procure a Tandy 102

[Chris Fezzler]

 Most excellent response (long time Club100 member).
On Monday, April 27, 2020, 11:02:18 PM EDT, Joshua O'Keefe 
 wrote:  
 
 Hi David,
I bought my 102 on eBay as a single non-lot unit (that is, without the 
slipcase, manuals, cabling, and other assorted goodies you might get in the 
box) for a song (about $100).  I then ordered a recap kit, external power 
supply, internal NiMH battery, and 8K chip from Arcadeshopper.  The 8K 
expansion for the 102 is extremely easy to install -- there's a simple DIP 
socket accessible by a hatch on the bottom of the computer.  You simply open 
the hatch, orient the chip, and push it into place.  Be aware that the 8K 
expansion chip for the 100 does not fit in the 102.  The 100 uses a different 
socket.
It's imperative that you at least replace the internal battery -- used to keep 
the contents of RAM intact while you switch AA batteries -- as these are all 
old enough to be on the verge of leaking battery acid all over the board, 
destroying it.  Replacing the capacitors on the board is also a very good idea 
-- I have done most of mine except for the two tucked under the big coil that I 
assume is part of the modem assembly.  Those two are tough to get to and I have 
yet to reach out to the listserv's experts for advice about them.  Recapping is 
pretty simple, but takes some manual dexterity and good eyesight.  I have 
neither of those things in abundance, and was able to do the bulk of the 
recapping work in about an hour with a simple soldering/desoldering kit from 
Amazon.
Since then, I have bought a number of little things to make my life with the 
M102 better.  I found a M100 slipcase on eBay, and while it's a little large 
and loose around the smaller 102, it suffices to take the computer for travel.  
I bought Stephen Adolph's REX system, which is a device and software subsystem 
that is inserted into the "Option ROM" slot and used to allow you to load 
various application or development environment ROMs without using up your 
precious RAM.  It also allows you to back up the contents of RAM to the flash 
device, which is a huge lifesaver, as you *will* experience loss of state in 
the course of using your T.  The REX is the secret sauce for making your T into 
a daily driver!  I also bought a Panasonic eneloop rechargable battery kit with 
8xAA batteries, and use the NiMH cells as primary power for the 102 when I'm 
away from my desk.  Despite heavy usage, I have yet to go through the first 
charge.  The eneloops are great.
I also have a USB to serial rig, and the requisite adapters, so I can connect 
the 102 to another computer.  I use my household's file server, and can mount 
it directly over the serial port using TS-DOS (loaded into the REX).  I have a 
32K computer with 40 terabytes of storage!
Depending on the condition you get your 102 in, you might want the Novus 3-step 
plastic polishing kit.  I used mine to buff and polish the plastic that covers 
the screen, and it removed nearly every sign of scuffs and scratches.  This 
makes it much more pleasant to read the screen.
As far as software loadout goes, I try to keep things light.  I have a couple 
of programs I picked up after sifting through the contents of club100 and the 
ZIP file floating around that contains the old CompuServ SIG file area.  
Between those -- and the member file area of club100 -- you'll find lots to 
choose from.
I do the majority of my writing in the built-in TEXT program, which is pretty 
rudimentary, but has some handy navigation hotkeys.  I also use a small basic 
program called JERNAL which creates and timestamps entries into a text file, 
allowing me to make diary-like entries.  For note taking, you can use TEXT to 
create a file called NOTE.DO and search through it with the built-in SCHEDL 
program.  There's an option ROM available called Sardine which offers a spell 
checker, but requires a peculiar TPDD storage device emulation setup that I 
haven't had an opportunity to play around with.  The Ultimate ROM II offers 
some word processing features, but they're largely irrelevant as I have no 
interest in print formatting.  I write everything in plain old Markdown, and 
upload it into my home directory on the server for processing.
There's a port of ANS FORTH called MFORTH.  Pick it up from the MFORTH web 
page, because the one linked on the bitchin100 wiki is an older version.  It's 
a pretty full featured FORTH programming environment, and I'm having a blast 
reacquanting myself with the language.  There's another option ROM called 
Cleusau which provides a bunch of BASIC programming and debugging enhancements. 
 I highly recommend it -- once you get your REX.


On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 6:19 PM David N. Hughes-Robinson  
wrote:

Hello!!

I have recently learned of the model t and have fallen head-over-heals. As a 
full-time python developer, I have enjoyed playing with BASIC and look forward 
to conquering low level programming in 8085 assembly. I live in a tiny 
apar

Re: [M100] Best Place to Procure a Tandy 102

[Tom Wilson]

My advice is to keep your eyes open and just be patient. I got a perfect
T-102 on EBay for less than $100. I just kept looking every day and jumped
on the auction when it came up. I've found some nice items over the last
few weeks, including two Model T computers (I've already passed one along
to another member here), and a pristine early model VIC-20 with the PET
style keys (those are super valuable. I don't know why this one was listed
for $90 when they usually sell for $400 or more.)

So the key is just to keep your eyes open and jump at the right time...
but, most importantly, read the description and only deal with good
sellers. It's usually pretty easy to tell the good guys from the bad
actors. I also tend to avoid salvagers who load down an auction with
boilerplate. If a seller doesn't take the time to write out the details of
an auction and doesn't know what he's selling, I skip to the next one.

Likewise, "RARE", "Museum Item", or "l@@k". in an auction title I pass
those by. Those sellers are often the worst offenders when it comes to
pricing, quality, or deceptive listings.

Tom Wilson
wilso...@gmail.com
(619)940-6311
K6ABZ


On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 6:40 AM Chris Fezzler  wrote:

> Most excellent response (long time Club100 member).
>
> On Monday, April 27, 2020, 11:02:18 PM EDT, Joshua O'Keefe <
> maj...@nachomountain.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi David,
>
> I bought my 102 on eBay as a single non-lot unit (that is, without the
> slipcase, manuals, cabling, and other assorted goodies you might get in the
> box) for a song (about $100).  I then ordered a recap kit, external power
> supply, internal NiMH battery, and 8K chip from Arcadeshopper.  The 8K
> expansion for the 102 is extremely easy to install -- there's a simple DIP
> socket accessible by a hatch on the bottom of the computer.  You simply
> open the hatch, orient the chip, and push it into place.  Be aware that the
> 8K expansion chip for the 100 does not fit in the 102.  The 100 uses a
> different socket.
>
> It's imperative that you at least replace the internal battery -- used to
> keep the contents of RAM intact while you switch AA batteries -- as these
> are all old enough to be on the verge of leaking battery acid all over the
> board, destroying it.  Replacing the capacitors on the board is also a very
> good idea -- I have done most of mine except for the two tucked under the
> big coil that I assume is part of the modem assembly.  Those two are tough
> to get to and I have yet to reach out to the listserv's experts for advice
> about them.  Recapping is pretty simple, but takes some manual dexterity
> and good eyesight.  I have neither of those things in abundance, and was
> able to do the bulk of the recapping work in about an hour with a simple
> soldering/desoldering kit from Amazon.
>
> Since then, I have bought a number of little things to make my life with
> the M102 better.  I found a M100 slipcase on eBay, and while it's a little
> large and loose around the smaller 102, it suffices to take the computer
> for travel.  I bought Stephen Adolph's REX system, which is a device and
> software subsystem that is inserted into the "Option ROM" slot and used to
> allow you to load various application or development environment ROMs
> without using up your precious RAM.  It also allows you to back up the
> contents of RAM to the flash device, which is a huge lifesaver, as you
> *will* experience loss of state in the course of using your T.  The REX is
> the secret sauce for making your T into a daily driver!  I also bought a
> Panasonic eneloop rechargable battery kit with 8xAA batteries, and use the
> NiMH cells as primary power for the 102 when I'm away from my desk.
> Despite heavy usage, I have yet to go through the first charge.  The
> eneloops are great.
>
> I also have a USB to serial rig, and the requisite adapters, so I can
> connect the 102 to another computer.  I use my household's file server, and
> can mount it directly over the serial port using TS-DOS (loaded into the
> REX).  I have a 32K computer with 40 terabytes of storage!
>
> Depending on the condition you get your 102 in, you might want the Novus
> 3-step plastic polishing kit.  I used mine to buff and polish the plastic
> that covers the screen, and it removed nearly every sign of scuffs and
> scratches.  This makes it much more pleasant to read the screen.
>
> As far as software loadout goes, I try to keep things light.  I have a
> couple of programs I picked up after sifting through the contents of
> club100 and the ZIP file floating around that contains the old CompuServ
> SIG file area.  Between those -- and the member file area of club100 --
> you'll find lots to choose from.
>
> I do the majority of my writing in the built-in TEXT program, which is
> pretty rudimentary, but has some handy navigation hotkeys.  I also use a
> small basic program called JERNAL which creates and timestamps entries into
> a text file, allowing me to make diary-like entries.  F

Re: [M100] Best Place to Procure a Tandy 102

[Jim Anderson]

> -Original Message-
> 
> Hello!!
> 
> I have recently learned of the model t and have fallen head-over-heals.

Welcome!  I was in your shoes a couple of years ago, and this is a great 
community - very helpful, and lots of interesting development activity going 
on.  I have some ideas for you, see below:

> 100s, but the article listing the differences between models on
> club100.org suggests it is better to acquire a 102 than a 100.

FWIW, regarding M100 versus T102, one consideration which might be important to 
you is the keyboard.  The T102 (and T200) use a keyboard design which is 
quieter but has a softer feel than the original M100 keyboard.  If you prefer 
quiet above all else, then the T102 is the way to go, but if you are a typist 
who enjoys a more tactile keyboard you will really appreciate typing on the 
M100.

Some of these used machines will have stiff keys and require some work to get 
them operating smoothly, but once they are cleaned up a Model 100 is a joy to 
type on.  (For insight into my perspective, I am coming at this as an owner of 
several M100s, one T200, and a daily user of an IBM Model M keyboard on my PC 
which I would not give up for anything.)

I would definitely second the recommendations already made re: getting a REX 
module for your new machine.  The same REX physically fits the M100, T102, and 
T200 (with a different software load for the T200) so you could order one even 
before you've found your ideal Model T to purchase.  The REX lets you backup, 
restore, and move between several different RAM images, which you'll learn is 
important because the filesystem is entirely in the machine's RAM and it's 
invaluable to be able to easily save backups on the fly and move between 
different images containing different documents or software programs.

If you're going to be using it as a writing tool, you're going to need a serial 
cable and a serial port for your computer (most likely a USB serial adapter) so 
you can transfer data in and out of the Model T.  There are several options for 
software to run on the computer end of things, most of which emulate the old 
Tandy Portable Disk Drive (you'll see the acronym TPDD a lot) so you can store 
files from your Model T in a folder on your PC as though that folder was a 
floppy disk.

As also mentioned already, the word processor ROMs such as T-Word don't really 
add a lot of functionality unless you plan to print your documents directly 
from the Model T machine - if you're going to upload your documents to a modern 
computer it's not worth worrying about.  Having one of the SARDINE ROM images 
on your Model T is handy if you want to spell check things as you're writing.  
Caveat: as cool as that might sound, bear in mind that it's not a speedy 
process, and that the self-contained dictionary is kind of limited (7000 words) 
unless you have it attached to an external device to access a virtual floppy 
containing the larger dictionary (33000 words).  (I'll leave the gory details 
on that for another email if you want; I could go on but this would start to 
get to be a drinking-from-the-firehose email and I remember what it was like 
trying to learn everything all at once when I was starting out with these 
machines...)







jim

Re: [M100] Missing ROM elements

[Jim Anderson]

> -Original Message-
> multimeter and all but a few of them were near dead. After returning
> them to Costco, I obtained a fresh pack of AA duracell's and tested them
> before putting them into the machine.
> [...]
> As a 46 year old, this is the first time I've ever bought batteries from
> such a major manufacturer of batteries that were already dead. So
> bazaar, but now I know to test them. Sheesh.

Just a remark about batteries (catching up on list messages that are kind of 
old, as I've been kind of burned out working on my computer from home all day):

I've had really poor results with leakage from the big Duracell packs from 
Costco, particularly the AA cells, over a span of many years.  I never used to 
have big problems with batteries leaking but I can't even tell you how many 
things I've found with substantial leakage and corrosion from these cells, even 
when they have not reached their 'use before' date.

I don't have conclusive evidence of this, but it seems to me that the devices 
most prone to experiencing leaking batteries were those with strong spring 
tension - I have an analog wall clock which takes a single AA cell and keeps a 
vice-like grip on the battery, and it used to be leaking every year even though 
the battery was still working fine.  The gaskets just don't seem to be able to 
take the pressure.  Having said that, I have had other devices with weaker 
battery compartment springs experience leakage too, it just feels like it 
happens more frequently in things with strong springs.

I'm not sure if the problem is with all modern Duracell AA cells in general, or 
just the ones Costco sells, but I've since given up and switched to Energizer 
which I try to buy in 20-packs at my local drugstore whenever I spot them on 
sale.  Not quite as good a price per cell as the Costco packs but Energizer 
does at least have an explicit warranty against damage caused by leakage, and 
I've had good success with them thusfar.







jim

Re: [M100] Missing ROM elements

[Kevin Becker]

That’s interesting. I had a bad battery leakage issue recently. It was in an 
Apple Magic Trackpad and was so bad I could not get the battery cover unscrewed 
at all. I broke the glass trying and so I just threw the whole thing out. I 
don’t know for sure if it was Costco Duracells but we often buy those so most 
likely it was. 

> On Apr 28, 2020, at 3:36 PM, Jim Anderson  wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> multimeter and all but a few of them were near dead. After returning
>> them to Costco, I obtained a fresh pack of AA duracell's and tested them
>> before putting them into the machine.
>> [...]
>> As a 46 year old, this is the first time I've ever bought batteries from
>> such a major manufacturer of batteries that were already dead. So
>> bazaar, but now I know to test them. Sheesh.
> 
> Just a remark about batteries (catching up on list messages that are kind of 
> old, as I've been kind of burned out working on my computer from home all 
> day):
> 
> I've had really poor results with leakage from the big Duracell packs from 
> Costco, particularly the AA cells, over a span of many years.  I never used 
> to have big problems with batteries leaking but I can't even tell you how 
> many things I've found with substantial leakage and corrosion from these 
> cells, even when they have not reached their 'use before' date.
> 
> I don't have conclusive evidence of this, but it seems to me that the devices 
> most prone to experiencing leaking batteries were those with strong spring 
> tension - I have an analog wall clock which takes a single AA cell and keeps 
> a vice-like grip on the battery, and it used to be leaking every year even 
> though the battery was still working fine.  The gaskets just don't seem to be 
> able to take the pressure.  Having said that, I have had other devices with 
> weaker battery compartment springs experience leakage too, it just feels like 
> it happens more frequently in things with strong springs.
> 
> I'm not sure if the problem is with all modern Duracell AA cells in general, 
> or just the ones Costco sells, but I've since given up and switched to 
> Energizer which I try to buy in 20-packs at my local drugstore whenever I 
> spot them on sale.  Not quite as good a price per cell as the Costco packs 
> but Energizer does at least have an explicit warranty against damage caused 
> by leakage, and I've had good success with them thusfar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>jim
> 

Re: [M100] Best Place to Procure a Tandy 102

[Joshua O'Keefe]

On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:32 AM Jim Anderson  wrote:

>  the self-contained dictionary is kind of limited (7000 words) unless you
> have it attached to an external device to access a virtual floppy
> containing the larger dictionary (33000 words).  (I'll leave the gory
> details on that for another email if you want; I could go on but this would
> start to get to be a drinking-from-the-firehose email and I remember what
> it was like trying to learn everything all at once when I was starting out
> with these machines...)
>

Jim, I'd love to take you up on this one -- I've been interested in setting
up Sardine (possibly even over WiModem232) but haven't known where to begin
with the TPDD side of things.  A few pointers would be great.

Re: [M100] Missing ROM elements

[Joshua O'Keefe]

I've started to go "off" the Costco Duracells as well, for similar
reasons.  I recently had leakage suddenly appear multiple times in recent
history.  I don't know if they have changed their manufacturing processes
or if it's just the grade of battery that Costco is sourcing from them, but
I've transitioned even more things on the cheap little NiMH cells from IKEA
-- I had them in the mix for years -- and the important stuff (M102!) is on
the Panasonic eneloops.

I have never had a NiMH cell leak, although they do fail eventually.

On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 12:41 PM Kevin Becker  wrote:

> That’s interesting. I had a bad battery leakage issue recently. It was in
> an Apple Magic Trackpad and was so bad I could not get the battery cover
> unscrewed at all. I broke the glass trying and so I just threw the whole
> thing out. I don’t know for sure if it was Costco Duracells but we often
> buy those so most likely it was.
>
> > On Apr 28, 2020, at 3:36 PM, Jim Anderson  wrote:
> >
> > 
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> multimeter and all but a few of them were near dead. After returning
> >> them to Costco, I obtained a fresh pack of AA duracell's and tested them
> >> before putting them into the machine.
> >> [...]
> >> As a 46 year old, this is the first time I've ever bought batteries from
> >> such a major manufacturer of batteries that were already dead. So
> >> bazaar, but now I know to test them. Sheesh.
> >
> > Just a remark about batteries (catching up on list messages that are
> kind of old, as I've been kind of burned out working on my computer from
> home all day):
> >
> > I've had really poor results with leakage from the big Duracell packs
> from Costco, particularly the AA cells, over a span of many years.  I never
> used to have big problems with batteries leaking but I can't even tell you
> how many things I've found with substantial leakage and corrosion from
> these cells, even when they have not reached their 'use before' date.
> >
> > I don't have conclusive evidence of this, but it seems to me that the
> devices most prone to experiencing leaking batteries were those with strong
> spring tension - I have an analog wall clock which takes a single AA cell
> and keeps a vice-like grip on the battery, and it used to be leaking every
> year even though the battery was still working fine.  The gaskets just
> don't seem to be able to take the pressure.  Having said that, I have had
> other devices with weaker battery compartment springs experience leakage
> too, it just feels like it happens more frequently in things with strong
> springs.
> >
> > I'm not sure if the problem is with all modern Duracell AA cells in
> general, or just the ones Costco sells, but I've since given up and
> switched to Energizer which I try to buy in 20-packs at my local drugstore
> whenever I spot them on sale.  Not quite as good a price per cell as the
> Costco packs but Energizer does at least have an explicit warranty against
> damage caused by leakage, and I've had good success with them thusfar.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >jim
> >
>
>

Re: [M100] Missing ROM elements

[Brian K. White]

Public Service Announcement

For rechargeables (usually all NiMH these days, regardless of company),

Don't use the chargers made by the same companies as the batteries. IE, 
don't use either Energizer or Duracell chargers, any model even the ones 
touted as better / more intelligent. They all kill the batteries 
prematurely.


Get a LaCrosse BC-1000 or Opus BCT-3100 or similar.

The lacross is best for nimh AA and AAA

The opus handles more sizes and chemistries of batteries, but has a fan.

--
bkw


On 4/28/20 5:00 PM, Joshua O'Keefe wrote:
I've started to go "off" the Costco Duracells as well, for similar 
reasons.  I recently had leakage suddenly appear multiple times in 
recent history.  I don't know if they have changed their manufacturing 
processes or if it's just the grade of battery that Costco is sourcing 
from them, but I've transitioned even more things on the cheap little 
NiMH cells from IKEA -- I had them in the mix for years -- and the 
important stuff (M102!) is on the Panasonic eneloops.


I have never had a NiMH cell leak, although they do fail eventually.

On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 12:41 PM Kevin Becker > wrote:


That’s interesting. I had a bad battery leakage issue recently. It
was in an Apple Magic Trackpad and was so bad I could not get the
battery cover unscrewed at all. I broke the glass trying and so I
just threw the whole thing out. I don’t know for sure if it was
Costco Duracells but we often buy those so most likely it was.

 > On Apr 28, 2020, at 3:36 PM, Jim Anderson mailto:jim.ander...@kpu.ca>> wrote:
 >
 > 
 >>
 >> -Original Message-
 >> multimeter and all but a few of them were near dead. After returning
 >> them to Costco, I obtained a fresh pack of AA duracell's and
tested them
 >> before putting them into the machine.
 >> [...]
 >> As a 46 year old, this is the first time I've ever bought
batteries from
 >> such a major manufacturer of batteries that were already dead. So
 >> bazaar, but now I know to test them. Sheesh.
 >
 > Just a remark about batteries (catching up on list messages that
are kind of old, as I've been kind of burned out working on my
computer from home all day):
 >
 > I've had really poor results with leakage from the big Duracell
packs from Costco, particularly the AA cells, over a span of many
years.  I never used to have big problems with batteries leaking but
I can't even tell you how many things I've found with substantial
leakage and corrosion from these cells, even when they have not
reached their 'use before' date.
 >
 > I don't have conclusive evidence of this, but it seems to me that
the devices most prone to experiencing leaking batteries were those
with strong spring tension - I have an analog wall clock which takes
a single AA cell and keeps a vice-like grip on the battery, and it
used to be leaking every year even though the battery was still
working fine.  The gaskets just don't seem to be able to take the
pressure.  Having said that, I have had other devices with weaker
battery compartment springs experience leakage too, it just feels
like it happens more frequently in things with strong springs.
 >
 > I'm not sure if the problem is with all modern Duracell AA cells
in general, or just the ones Costco sells, but I've since given up
and switched to Energizer which I try to buy in 20-packs at my local
drugstore whenever I spot them on sale.  Not quite as good a price
per cell as the Costco packs but Energizer does at least have an
explicit warranty against damage caused by leakage, and I've had
good success with them thusfar.
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >    jim
 >




--
bkw

Re: [M100] Missing ROM elements

[C. Magaret]

I'll add to the choir, but re: Duracells in general.  I'm not a Costco member, 
so I tend to purchase my alkaline batteries from hardware stores, etc., and I 
had a dismally bad run with Duracells a few years ago.   I switched to 
Energizer, and I've only had maybe one leakage since.  (And that incident 
could've been attributed as my fault, since I left the batteries packed for 
several years.)

CAM



> On Apr 28, 2020, at 14:00, Joshua O'Keefe  wrote:
> 
> I've started to go "off" the Costco Duracells as well, for similar reasons.  
> I recently had leakage suddenly appear multiple times in recent history.  I 
> don't know if they have changed their manufacturing processes or if it's just 
> the grade of battery that Costco is sourcing from them, but I've transitioned 
> even more things on the cheap little NiMH cells from IKEA -- I had them in 
> the mix for years -- and the important stuff (M102!) is on the Panasonic 
> eneloops.
> 
> I have never had a NiMH cell leak, although they do fail eventually.
> 
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 12:41 PM Kevin Becker  wrote:
> That’s interesting. I had a bad battery leakage issue recently. It was in an 
> Apple Magic Trackpad and was so bad I could not get the battery cover 
> unscrewed at all. I broke the glass trying and so I just threw the whole 
> thing out. I don’t know for sure if it was Costco Duracells but we often buy 
> those so most likely it was. 
> 
> > On Apr 28, 2020, at 3:36 PM, Jim Anderson  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >> 
> >> -Original Message-
> >> multimeter and all but a few of them were near dead. After returning
> >> them to Costco, I obtained a fresh pack of AA duracell's and tested them
> >> before putting them into the machine.
> >> [...]
> >> As a 46 year old, this is the first time I've ever bought batteries from
> >> such a major manufacturer of batteries that were already dead. So
> >> bazaar, but now I know to test them. Sheesh.
> > 
> > Just a remark about batteries (catching up on list messages that are kind 
> > of old, as I've been kind of burned out working on my computer from home 
> > all day):
> > 
> > I've had really poor results with leakage from the big Duracell packs from 
> > Costco, particularly the AA cells, over a span of many years.  I never used 
> > to have big problems with batteries leaking but I can't even tell you how 
> > many things I've found with substantial leakage and corrosion from these 
> > cells, even when they have not reached their 'use before' date.
> > 
> > I don't have conclusive evidence of this, but it seems to me that the 
> > devices most prone to experiencing leaking batteries were those with strong 
> > spring tension - I have an analog wall clock which takes a single AA cell 
> > and keeps a vice-like grip on the battery, and it used to be leaking every 
> > year even though the battery was still working fine.  The gaskets just 
> > don't seem to be able to take the pressure.  Having said that, I have had 
> > other devices with weaker battery compartment springs experience leakage 
> > too, it just feels like it happens more frequently in things with strong 
> > springs.
> > 
> > I'm not sure if the problem is with all modern Duracell AA cells in 
> > general, or just the ones Costco sells, but I've since given up and 
> > switched to Energizer which I try to buy in 20-packs at my local drugstore 
> > whenever I spot them on sale.  Not quite as good a price per cell as the 
> > Costco packs but Energizer does at least have an explicit warranty against 
> > damage caused by leakage, and I've had good success with them thusfar.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >jim
> > 
> 

Re: [M100] Missing ROM elements

[John Gardner]

Eneloops don't seem to suffer unduly from leakage.  So far.

Almost all this stuff is made in China.  In China,  nothing is ever

thrown away.  Including rejects from manufacturers supervised

by "1st-World" corporations...  Guess where rejects end up...

  ...


On 4/28/20, Joshua O'Keefe  wrote:
> I've started to go "off" the Costco Duracells as well, for similar
> reasons.  I recently had leakage suddenly appear multiple times in recent
> history.  I don't know if they have changed their manufacturing processes
> or if it's just the grade of battery that Costco is sourcing from them, but
> I've transitioned even more things on the cheap little NiMH cells from IKEA
> -- I had them in the mix for years -- and the important stuff (M102!) is on
> the Panasonic eneloops.
>
> I have never had a NiMH cell leak, although they do fail eventually.
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 12:41 PM Kevin Becker 
> wrote:
>
>> That’s interesting. I had a bad battery leakage issue recently. It was in
>> an Apple Magic Trackpad and was so bad I could not get the battery cover
>> unscrewed at all. I broke the glass trying and so I just threw the whole
>> thing out. I don’t know for sure if it was Costco Duracells but we often
>> buy those so most likely it was.
>>
>> > On Apr 28, 2020, at 3:36 PM, Jim Anderson  wrote:
>> >
>> > 
>> >>
>> >> -Original Message-
>> >> multimeter and all but a few of them were near dead. After returning
>> >> them to Costco, I obtained a fresh pack of AA duracell's and tested
>> >> them
>> >> before putting them into the machine.
>> >> [...]
>> >> As a 46 year old, this is the first time I've ever bought batteries
>> >> from
>> >> such a major manufacturer of batteries that were already dead. So
>> >> bazaar, but now I know to test them. Sheesh.
>> >
>> > Just a remark about batteries (catching up on list messages that are
>> kind of old, as I've been kind of burned out working on my computer from
>> home all day):
>> >
>> > I've had really poor results with leakage from the big Duracell packs
>> from Costco, particularly the AA cells, over a span of many years.  I
>> never
>> used to have big problems with batteries leaking but I can't even tell
>> you
>> how many things I've found with substantial leakage and corrosion from
>> these cells, even when they have not reached their 'use before' date.
>> >
>> > I don't have conclusive evidence of this, but it seems to me that the
>> devices most prone to experiencing leaking batteries were those with
>> strong
>> spring tension - I have an analog wall clock which takes a single AA cell
>> and keeps a vice-like grip on the battery, and it used to be leaking
>> every
>> year even though the battery was still working fine.  The gaskets just
>> don't seem to be able to take the pressure.  Having said that, I have had
>> other devices with weaker battery compartment springs experience leakage
>> too, it just feels like it happens more frequently in things with strong
>> springs.
>> >
>> > I'm not sure if the problem is with all modern Duracell AA cells in
>> general, or just the ones Costco sells, but I've since given up and
>> switched to Energizer which I try to buy in 20-packs at my local
>> drugstore
>> whenever I spot them on sale.  Not quite as good a price per cell as the
>> Costco packs but Energizer does at least have an explicit warranty
>> against
>> damage caused by leakage, and I've had good success with them thusfar.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >jim
>> >
>>
>>
>

Re: [M100] Best Place to Procure a Tandy 102

[me]

Welcome to the list!

There are two currently on ebay going for less than $50.

On 4/27/20 6:19 PM, David N. Hughes-Robinson wrote:

Hello!!

I have recently learned of the model t and have fallen head-over-heals. As a 
full-time python developer, I have enjoyed playing with BASIC and look forward 
to conquering low level programming in 8085 assembly. I live in a tiny 
apartment, so the model t is the only retro-computer I can justify space-wise, 
otherwise I would already filled several desks with old computers and disk 
drives.

Currently I am getting my model t fix by playing with VirtualT but would love 
to get my hands on real hardware. What is the preferred place to get a working 
Tandy 102 with 32k of ram? I’ve been looking on eBay and have found a few 
listings, but many of them are untested or have known flaws. Are there any 
repairs that are easier to perform And therefore worth purchasing with a repair 
in mind? I’ve also seen many more model 100s, but the article listing the 
differences between models on club100.org suggests it is better to acquire a 
102 than a 100.

I’ve ordered a physical copy of David Leon’s “The TRS-80 Mode 100 Portable 
Computer,” which I look forward to reading and have downloaded tons of books 
off archive.org. That said, I am open to and ready for more reading suggestions 
about the model t and programming for these old micros.

Finally, I would love any tips for writing prose on the model t. Are there any 
particular workflows or BASIC programs you find essential?

Thank you so much in advance. Looking forward to loads of fun with this list 
and the model t.

Best,
oaguy1

Re: [M100] Missing ROM elements

[Joshua O'Keefe]

On Apr 28, 2020, at 2:26 PM, John Gardner  wrote:
> Eneloops don't seem to suffer unduly from leakage.  So far.
> Almost all this stuff is made in China. 

I was led to believe the Eneloop cells are made in Japan which influenced my 
decision to go with them.  I'm using the Panasonic charger, which sounds like 
it might not be the finest idea, but it's what I have on hand.

The batch of Duracells sitting in the drawer is the last I'll ever own.  
Nothing I care about has a Duracell in it any more.

Re: [M100] Missing ROM elements

[me]

HI Jim -

Yeah that was my last straw. Last year I had some fresh batteries that I 
had put into my noise cancelling headset for my plane. The night before 
a trip.


We were piled in and ready to go when I put my headset on and the power 
light didn't turn on and i didn't hear the hiss. Mind you twelve hours 
hadn't even passed yet and I tested it before leaving the hangar.


I looked in the battery compartment and all the fresh duracell's had 
leaked battery acid inside the battery compartment. Talk about a downer.


I have spare ear plugs so I wore that with my headset. Not the same 
thing but I heard everything okay.


I thought it was just bad luck.

On 4/28/20 12:36 PM, Jim Anderson wrote:

-Original Message-
multimeter and all but a few of them were near dead. After returning
them to Costco, I obtained a fresh pack of AA duracell's and tested them
before putting them into the machine.
[...]
As a 46 year old, this is the first time I've ever bought batteries from
such a major manufacturer of batteries that were already dead. So
bazaar, but now I know to test them. Sheesh.

Just a remark about batteries (catching up on list messages that are kind of 
old, as I've been kind of burned out working on my computer from home all day):

I've had really poor results with leakage from the big Duracell packs from 
Costco, particularly the AA cells, over a span of many years.  I never used to 
have big problems with batteries leaking but I can't even tell you how many 
things I've found with substantial leakage and corrosion from these cells, even 
when they have not reached their 'use before' date.

I don't have conclusive evidence of this, but it seems to me that the devices 
most prone to experiencing leaking batteries were those with strong spring 
tension - I have an analog wall clock which takes a single AA cell and keeps a 
vice-like grip on the battery, and it used to be leaking every year even though 
the battery was still working fine.  The gaskets just don't seem to be able to 
take the pressure.  Having said that, I have had other devices with weaker 
battery compartment springs experience leakage too, it just feels like it 
happens more frequently in things with strong springs.

I'm not sure if the problem is with all modern Duracell AA cells in general, or 
just the ones Costco sells, but I've since given up and switched to Energizer 
which I try to buy in 20-packs at my local drugstore whenever I spot them on 
sale.  Not quite as good a price per cell as the Costco packs but Energizer 
does at least have an explicit warranty against damage caused by leakage, and 
I've had good success with them thusfar.







jim

Re: [M100] Missing ROM elements

[me]

For me it was always costco duracell. Last year and this time. Different 
packs though.


I ordered a set of radio shack batteries so they're on-hand now. I 
returned my other duracell pack. I am thinking that duracell is 
packaging factory seconds for costco distribution.



On 4/28/20 12:41 PM, Kevin Becker wrote:
That’s interesting. I had a bad battery leakage issue recently. It 
was in an Apple Magic Trackpad and was so bad I could not get the 
battery cover unscrewed at all. I broke the glass trying and so I 
just threw the whole thing out. I don’t know for sure if it was 
Costco Duracells but we often buy those so most likely it was.



On Apr 28, 2020, at 3:36 PM, Jim Anderson  wrote:



-Original Message-
multimeter and all but a few of them were near dead. After returning
them to Costco, I obtained a fresh pack of AA duracell's and tested 
them

before putting them into the machine.
[...]
As a 46 year old, this is the first time I've ever bought batteries 
from

such a major manufacturer of batteries that were already dead. So
bazaar, but now I know to test them. Sheesh.
Just a remark about batteries (catching up on list messages that are 
kind of old, as I've been kind of burned out working on my computer 
from home all day):


I've had really poor results with leakage from the big Duracell 
packs from Costco, particularly the AA cells, over a span of many 
years.  I never used to have big problems with batteries leaking but 
I can't even tell you how many things I've found with substantial 
leakage and corrosion from these cells, even when they have not 
reached their 'use before' date.


I don't have conclusive evidence of this, but it seems to me that 
the devices most prone to experiencing leaking batteries were those 
with strong spring tension - I have an analog wall clock which takes 
a single AA cell and keeps a vice-like grip on the battery, and it 
used to be leaking every year even though the battery was still 
working fine.  The gaskets just don't seem to be able to take the 
pressure.  Having said that, I have had other devices with weaker 
battery compartment springs experience leakage too, it just feels 
like it happens more frequently in things with strong springs.


I'm not sure if the problem is with all modern Duracell AA cells in 
general, or just the ones Costco sells, but I've since given up and 
switched to Energizer which I try to buy in 20-packs at my local 
drugstore whenever I spot them on sale. Not quite as good a price 
per cell as the Costco packs but Energizer does at least have an 
explicit warranty against damage caused by leakage, and I've had 
good success with them thusfar.








    jim

Re: [M100] Missing ROM elements

[Kevin Becker]

This whole thread is actually making me kinda mad now.  I had chalked
my destroyed trackpad up to my own failure to maintain the batteries,
although I was surprised because I didn't think they were that old.  I
was  kicking myself and thinking "well that's what you get old man." 
Nothing Apple sells is cheap and their trackpads are no exception.  I
don't use the Mac Mini the trackpad was paired with very often, my main
machine is a linux box these days, but literally tonight I was using it
to make a Mother's Day photobook with mouse and I really missed the
trackpad.  In macOS I really rely on trackpad gestures I can't do with
a mouse.  Now I'm feeling a mix between vindication and anger that
these name-brand batteries may have been to blame rather than my
neglect.


On Tue, 2020-04-28 at 15:45 -0700, me wrote:
> HI Jim -
> 
> Yeah that was my last straw. Last year I had some fresh batteries that I 
> had put into my noise cancelling headset for my plane. The night before 
> a trip.
> 
> We were piled in and ready to go when I put my headset on and the power 
> light didn't turn on and i didn't hear the hiss. Mind you twelve hours 
> hadn't even passed yet and I tested it before leaving the hangar.
> 
> I looked in the battery compartment and all the fresh duracell's had 
> leaked battery acid inside the battery compartment. Talk about a downer.
> 
> I have spare ear plugs so I wore that with my headset. Not the same 
> thing but I heard everything okay.
> 
> I thought it was just bad luck.
> 
> On 4/28/20 12:36 PM, Jim Anderson wrote:
> > > -Original Message-
> > > multimeter and all but a few of them were near dead. After returning
> > > them to Costco, I obtained a fresh pack of AA duracell's and tested them
> > > before putting them into the machine.
> > > [...]
> > > As a 46 year old, this is the first time I've ever bought batteries from
> > > such a major manufacturer of batteries that were already dead. So
> > > bazaar, but now I know to test them. Sheesh.
> > Just a remark about batteries (catching up on list messages that are kind 
> > of old, as I've been kind of burned out working on my computer from home 
> > all day):
> > 
> > I've had really poor results with leakage from the big Duracell packs from 
> > Costco, particularly the AA cells, over a span of many years.  I never used 
> > to have big problems with batteries leaking but I can't even tell you how 
> > many things I've found with substantial leakage and corrosion from these 
> > cells, even when they have not reached their 'use before' date.
> > 
> > I don't have conclusive evidence of this, but it seems to me that the 
> > devices most prone to experiencing leaking batteries were those with strong 
> > spring tension - I have an analog wall clock which takes a single AA cell 
> > and keeps a vice-like grip on the battery, and it used to be leaking every 
> > year even though the battery was still working fine.  The gaskets just 
> > don't seem to be able to take the pressure.  Having said that, I have had 
> > other devices with weaker battery compartment springs experience leakage 
> > too, it just feels like it happens more frequently in things with strong 
> > springs.
> > 
> > I'm not sure if the problem is with all modern Duracell AA cells in 
> > general, or just the ones Costco sells, but I've since given up and 
> > switched to Energizer which I try to buy in 20-packs at my local drugstore 
> > whenever I spot them on sale.  Not quite as good a price per cell as the 
> > Costco packs but Energizer does at least have an explicit warranty against 
> > damage caused by leakage, and I've had good success with them thusfar.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > jim
> > 

[M100] TSDOS + page fix

[Joshua O'Keefe]

Does anyone have a M100 TSDOS rom image with Ken's page down fix?  Or 
instructions on what to patch?  The one Kurt used for SARDOS has it, but I'd 
like to have a TSDOS-only rom on hand if possible.  I'll come around to 
learning SARDOS eventually but I'm not there yet.