Re: [M100] John Ph. Graf

[Chris Fezzler]

 R.I.P. John.  We chatted many times over the past 15 or so years and he was a 
nice fellow.
On Tuesday, September 22, 2020, 03:17:50 PM EDT, John R. Hogerhuis 
 wrote:  
 
 Hello Club,

I wanted to let you all know that one of our long-time friends and members, 
John Ph. Graf of Galesville, Wisconsin passed away June 5, 2020. As sometimes 
happens, I discovered the fact recently when his emails from the list started 
to bounce.

It seems John's last interaction with us was in March of last year.

He was a long-time newspaper publisher and also served as mayor the mayor of 
his town for 6 years.

https://wnanews.com/2020/06/10/john-graf-galesville-republican-obituary/

My connection to John is he gave me some of his NEC 8500 equipment years back. 
And he reached out often with sympathy and support when we lost Rick and 
through the ongoing evolution of the list. He was a friendly person always 
willing to lend a hand.

Goodbye John.
  

Re: [M100] John Ph. Graf

[Stephen Adolph]

Sad news, thank you for forwarding that to the list, John.

On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 3:17 PM John R. Hogerhuis  wrote:

> Hello Club,
>
> I wanted to let you all know that one of our long-time friends and
> members, John Ph. Graf of Galesville, Wisconsin passed away June 5, 2020.
> As sometimes happens, I discovered the fact recently when his emails from
> the list started to bounce.
>
> It seems John's last interaction with us was in March of last year.
>
> He was a long-time newspaper publisher and also served as mayor the mayor
> of his town for 6 years.
>
> https://wnanews.com/2020/06/10/john-graf-galesville-republican-obituary/
>
> My connection to John is he gave me some of his NEC 8500 equipment years
> back. And he reached out often with sympathy and support when we lost Rick
> and through the ongoing evolution of the list. He was a friendly person
> always willing to lend a hand.
>
> Goodbye John.
>

[M100] John Ph. Graf

[John R. Hogerhuis]

Hello Club,

I wanted to let you all know that one of our long-time friends and members,
John Ph. Graf of Galesville, Wisconsin passed away June 5, 2020. As
sometimes happens, I discovered the fact recently when his emails from the
list started to bounce.

It seems John's last interaction with us was in March of last year.

He was a long-time newspaper publisher and also served as mayor the mayor
of his town for 6 years.

https://wnanews.com/2020/06/10/john-graf-galesville-republican-obituary/

My connection to John is he gave me some of his NEC 8500 equipment years
back. And he reached out often with sympathy and support when we lost Rick
and through the ongoing evolution of the list. He was a friendly person
always willing to lend a hand.

Goodbye John.

Re: [M100] definition of null modem

[james . zeun]

Well maybe hold off then, because my plan is to document what I do. I don’t 
mind videos but there is a reason I maintain a tech blog for all the project I 
work on / build.



Sent from my iPad

> On 22 Sep 2020, at 7:11 pm, Jonathan Yuen  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'll have to take a look.  Generally avoid videos because I'm too lazy to 
> take notes but I realize that recording a video is easier than writing stuff 
> and making web pages.
> 
> Jonathan
> 
> jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se
> 
> Från: M100 [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] för james.z...@gmail.com 
> [james.z...@gmail.com]
> Skickat: den 22 september 2020 10:54
> Till: m...@bitchin100.com
> Ämne: Re: [M100] definition of null modem
> 
> Buddy
> 
> Have you checked out youtube? I’m literally about to undertake a project that 
> sounds like what your after. I’m fitting a rpi zero into an old modem housing 
> and having it share the WiFi out over ppp serial. There are two very good 
> videos on this process which can be found on YouTube. One uses an Commodore 
> Amiga and the other is using a Win95 PC as the system they are trying to get 
> online. Both see the Rpi as a regular modem.
> 
> I hoping to get it working so I can recover email on my Amiga 500+
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 22 Sep 2020, at 9:41 am, Jonathan Yuen  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I have an FTDI converter, bought it to connect the M100 to modern stuff 
>> without real RS232 ports.  But I was trying to get ppp to work on the 
>> PI-Psion connection and I was trying everything possible (and it still 
>> doesn't work) under linux.  I can get it to work on Windows but that sort of 
>> defeats the whole purpose of having something small bridge between the Psion 
>> and today's internet.  I really only wanted to get mail to work so I didn't 
>> have to type on the phone or tablet screen but maybe a small bluetooth 
>> keyboard is the answer. If I keep the mail on the pi I guess I can use any 
>> terminal to do mail, like the M100 or the Psion but the M100 keyboard is 
>> better.
>> 
>> How to configure ppp to work is still a mystery but that is really not the 
>> subject of this list. Tried slirp and even found a number of people that 
>> claimed it would work but it doesn't work for me and it doesn't want to 
>> compile on my linux machine, either.
>> 
>> Jonathan
>> 
>> jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se
>> 
>> Från: M100 [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] för Tom Wilson 
>> [wilso...@gmail.com]
>> Skickat: den 21 september 2020 22:06
>> Till: M100 Mailing List
>> Ämne: Re: [M100] definition of null modem
>> 
>> Some tips on that
>> 
>> Are you using Linux on the Pi? If so,  it would be easier to just use a USB 
>> serial port. The Prolific and FTDI ports both work with Raspbian; I've used 
>> both.
>> 
>> Otherwise, maybe look at a DTE wired level converter with CTS/RTS like 
>> this one:
>> 
>> https://www.amazon.com/NulSom-Inc-Ultra-Compact-Converter/dp/B00OPU2QJ4/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1=ttl+rs-232+level+converter=1600718673=8-4
>> 
>> Although I'm not sure where you'll get CTS and RTS on the Pi. I don't know 
>> that it's mapped to any of the GPIO pins. This might help a little bit:
>> https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=241623
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Tom Wilson
>> wilso...@gmail.com
>> (619)940-6311
>> K6ABZ
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:10 PM Jonathan Yuen 
>> mailto:jonathan.y...@slu.se>> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I actually am trying to connect a Psion 5MX with it's 'serial cable' to a 
>> raspberry pi, the serial lines on the GPIO thing.  The pi is TTL, so I have 
>> an adapter to change it to RS-232.  The adapter is DCE, but the Psion cable 
>> actually terminates as DCE, since it was made to plug into the serial port 
>> on your PC for synchronizing etc.  The Psion has a perfectly good comm 
>> program, so I'm using it as terminal (there is even a VT100 program) but I 
>> need the 'null modem' or crossover connector to connect it to the 
>> level-shifter.  Since they were both female, I actually did the test with 3 
>> pieces of maybe 14 or 16 gauge insulated wire, maybe 3 cm long, with their 
>> ends stripped and pushed into the right holes. But I thought I should have 
>> something a bit more 'robust' and maybe do the other lines as well.
>> 
>> I think Psion actually made a modem that connected to this cable, but that 
>> must have been DTE...
>> 
>> I guess I always thought of the 'modem' in null-modem as 'modem=DCE' since 
>> I've always connected DTE things together. But I appreciate the feedback 
>> from the group.
>> 
>> Jonathan
>> 
>> jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se
>> 
>> Från: M100 
>> [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com]
>>  för Tom Wilson [wilso...@gmail.com]
>> Skickat: den 21 september 

Re: [M100] definition of null modem

[Jonathan Yuen]

Hi,

I'll have to take a look.  Generally avoid videos because I'm too lazy to take 
notes but I realize that recording a video is easier than writing stuff and 
making web pages.

Jonathan

jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se

Från: M100 [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] för james.z...@gmail.com 
[james.z...@gmail.com]
Skickat: den 22 september 2020 10:54
Till: m...@bitchin100.com
Ämne: Re: [M100] definition of null modem

Buddy

Have you checked out youtube? I’m literally about to undertake a project that 
sounds like what your after. I’m fitting a rpi zero into an old modem housing 
and having it share the WiFi out over ppp serial. There are two very good 
videos on this process which can be found on YouTube. One uses an Commodore 
Amiga and the other is using a Win95 PC as the system they are trying to get 
online. Both see the Rpi as a regular modem.

I hoping to get it working so I can recover email on my Amiga 500+

Sent from my iPad

> On 22 Sep 2020, at 9:41 am, Jonathan Yuen  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have an FTDI converter, bought it to connect the M100 to modern stuff 
> without real RS232 ports.  But I was trying to get ppp to work on the 
> PI-Psion connection and I was trying everything possible (and it still 
> doesn't work) under linux.  I can get it to work on Windows but that sort of 
> defeats the whole purpose of having something small bridge between the Psion 
> and today's internet.  I really only wanted to get mail to work so I didn't 
> have to type on the phone or tablet screen but maybe a small bluetooth 
> keyboard is the answer. If I keep the mail on the pi I guess I can use any 
> terminal to do mail, like the M100 or the Psion but the M100 keyboard is 
> better.
>
> How to configure ppp to work is still a mystery but that is really not the 
> subject of this list. Tried slirp and even found a number of people that 
> claimed it would work but it doesn't work for me and it doesn't want to 
> compile on my linux machine, either.
>
> Jonathan
>
> jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se
> 
> Från: M100 [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] för Tom Wilson 
> [wilso...@gmail.com]
> Skickat: den 21 september 2020 22:06
> Till: M100 Mailing List
> Ämne: Re: [M100] definition of null modem
>
> Some tips on that
>
> Are you using Linux on the Pi? If so,  it would be easier to just use a USB 
> serial port. The Prolific and FTDI ports both work with Raspbian; I've used 
> both.
>
> Otherwise, maybe look at a DTE wired level converter with CTS/RTS like 
> this one:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/NulSom-Inc-Ultra-Compact-Converter/dp/B00OPU2QJ4/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1=ttl+rs-232+level+converter=1600718673=8-4
>
> Although I'm not sure where you'll get CTS and RTS on the Pi. I don't know 
> that it's mapped to any of the GPIO pins. This might help a little bit:
> https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=241623
>
>
>
> Tom Wilson
> wilso...@gmail.com
> (619)940-6311
> K6ABZ
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:10 PM Jonathan Yuen 
> mailto:jonathan.y...@slu.se>> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I actually am trying to connect a Psion 5MX with it's 'serial cable' to a 
> raspberry pi, the serial lines on the GPIO thing.  The pi is TTL, so I have 
> an adapter to change it to RS-232.  The adapter is DCE, but the Psion cable 
> actually terminates as DCE, since it was made to plug into the serial port on 
> your PC for synchronizing etc.  The Psion has a perfectly good comm program, 
> so I'm using it as terminal (there is even a VT100 program) but I need the 
> 'null modem' or crossover connector to connect it to the level-shifter.  
> Since they were both female, I actually did the test with 3 pieces of maybe 
> 14 or 16 gauge insulated wire, maybe 3 cm long, with their ends stripped and 
> pushed into the right holes. But I thought I should have something a bit more 
> 'robust' and maybe do the other lines as well.
>
> I think Psion actually made a modem that connected to this cable, but that 
> must have been DTE...
>
> I guess I always thought of the 'modem' in null-modem as 'modem=DCE' since 
> I've always connected DTE things together. But I appreciate the feedback from 
> the group.
>
> Jonathan
>
> jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se
> 
> Från: M100 
> [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] 
> för Tom Wilson [wilso...@gmail.com]
> Skickat: den 21 september 2020 20:18
> Till: M100 Mailing List
> Ämne: Re: [M100] definition of null modem
>
> "Null" means "none" or "zero." So "null modem" means "no modem."
> This term is an adjective and should be coupled with "cable", "adapter", or 
> some other noun to be of any use.
>
> I don't see a need to re-define the term, since "null modem cable" is well 
> established, and we all know exactly what the term means.
>
> 

Re: [M100] definition of null modem

[james . zeun]

Buddy

Have you checked out youtube? I’m literally about to undertake a project that 
sounds like what your after. I’m fitting a rpi zero into an old modem housing 
and having it share the WiFi out over ppp serial. There are two very good 
videos on this process which can be found on YouTube. One uses an Commodore 
Amiga and the other is using a Win95 PC as the system they are trying to get 
online. Both see the Rpi as a regular modem.

I hoping to get it working so I can recover email on my Amiga 500+

Sent from my iPad

> On 22 Sep 2020, at 9:41 am, Jonathan Yuen  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have an FTDI converter, bought it to connect the M100 to modern stuff 
> without real RS232 ports.  But I was trying to get ppp to work on the 
> PI-Psion connection and I was trying everything possible (and it still 
> doesn't work) under linux.  I can get it to work on Windows but that sort of 
> defeats the whole purpose of having something small bridge between the Psion 
> and today's internet.  I really only wanted to get mail to work so I didn't 
> have to type on the phone or tablet screen but maybe a small bluetooth 
> keyboard is the answer. If I keep the mail on the pi I guess I can use any 
> terminal to do mail, like the M100 or the Psion but the M100 keyboard is 
> better.
> 
> How to configure ppp to work is still a mystery but that is really not the 
> subject of this list. Tried slirp and even found a number of people that 
> claimed it would work but it doesn't work for me and it doesn't want to 
> compile on my linux machine, either.
> 
> Jonathan
> 
> jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se
> 
> Från: M100 [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] för Tom Wilson 
> [wilso...@gmail.com]
> Skickat: den 21 september 2020 22:06
> Till: M100 Mailing List
> Ämne: Re: [M100] definition of null modem
> 
> Some tips on that
> 
> Are you using Linux on the Pi? If so,  it would be easier to just use a USB 
> serial port. The Prolific and FTDI ports both work with Raspbian; I've used 
> both.
> 
> Otherwise, maybe look at a DTE wired level converter with CTS/RTS like 
> this one:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/NulSom-Inc-Ultra-Compact-Converter/dp/B00OPU2QJ4/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1=ttl+rs-232+level+converter=1600718673=8-4
> 
> Although I'm not sure where you'll get CTS and RTS on the Pi. I don't know 
> that it's mapped to any of the GPIO pins. This might help a little bit:
> https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=241623
> 
> 
> 
> Tom Wilson
> wilso...@gmail.com
> (619)940-6311
> K6ABZ
> 
> 
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:10 PM Jonathan Yuen 
> mailto:jonathan.y...@slu.se>> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I actually am trying to connect a Psion 5MX with it's 'serial cable' to a 
> raspberry pi, the serial lines on the GPIO thing.  The pi is TTL, so I have 
> an adapter to change it to RS-232.  The adapter is DCE, but the Psion cable 
> actually terminates as DCE, since it was made to plug into the serial port on 
> your PC for synchronizing etc.  The Psion has a perfectly good comm program, 
> so I'm using it as terminal (there is even a VT100 program) but I need the 
> 'null modem' or crossover connector to connect it to the level-shifter.  
> Since they were both female, I actually did the test with 3 pieces of maybe 
> 14 or 16 gauge insulated wire, maybe 3 cm long, with their ends stripped and 
> pushed into the right holes. But I thought I should have something a bit more 
> 'robust' and maybe do the other lines as well.
> 
> I think Psion actually made a modem that connected to this cable, but that 
> must have been DTE...
> 
> I guess I always thought of the 'modem' in null-modem as 'modem=DCE' since 
> I've always connected DTE things together. But I appreciate the feedback from 
> the group.
> 
> Jonathan
> 
> jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se
> 
> Från: M100 
> [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] 
> för Tom Wilson [wilso...@gmail.com]
> Skickat: den 21 september 2020 20:18
> Till: M100 Mailing List
> Ämne: Re: [M100] definition of null modem
> 
> "Null" means "none" or "zero." So "null modem" means "no modem."
> This term is an adjective and should be coupled with "cable", "adapter", or 
> some other noun to be of any use.
> 
> I don't see a need to re-define the term, since "null modem cable" is well 
> established, and we all know exactly what the term means.
> 
> Strangely, there are times you actually need a null modem cable to connect a 
> computer to a modem. Most CP/M computers used dumb terminals, as did any 
> mainframe and minicomputer (also called a mini mainframe.) Since those 
> computers were designed to have DTE devices plugged directly in to their 
> terminal ports, you might need a null modem cable to connect a modem to the 
> mainframe... Of course, in that case, we'd just call those "modem 

Re: [M100] definition of null modem

[Jonathan Yuen]

Hi,

I have an FTDI converter, bought it to connect the M100 to modern stuff without 
real RS232 ports.  But I was trying to get ppp to work on the PI-Psion 
connection and I was trying everything possible (and it still doesn't work) 
under linux.  I can get it to work on Windows but that sort of defeats the 
whole purpose of having something small bridge between the Psion and today's 
internet.  I really only wanted to get mail to work so I didn't have to type on 
the phone or tablet screen but maybe a small bluetooth keyboard is the answer. 
If I keep the mail on the pi I guess I can use any terminal to do mail, like 
the M100 or the Psion but the M100 keyboard is better.

How to configure ppp to work is still a mystery but that is really not the 
subject of this list. Tried slirp and even found a number of people that 
claimed it would work but it doesn't work for me and it doesn't want to compile 
on my linux machine, either.

Jonathan

jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se

Från: M100 [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] för Tom Wilson 
[wilso...@gmail.com]
Skickat: den 21 september 2020 22:06
Till: M100 Mailing List
Ämne: Re: [M100] definition of null modem

Some tips on that

Are you using Linux on the Pi? If so,  it would be easier to just use a USB 
serial port. The Prolific and FTDI ports both work with Raspbian; I've used 
both.

Otherwise, maybe look at a DTE wired level converter with CTS/RTS like this 
one:

https://www.amazon.com/NulSom-Inc-Ultra-Compact-Converter/dp/B00OPU2QJ4/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1=ttl+rs-232+level+converter=1600718673=8-4

Although I'm not sure where you'll get CTS and RTS on the Pi. I don't know that 
it's mapped to any of the GPIO pins. This might help a little bit:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=241623



Tom Wilson
wilso...@gmail.com
(619)940-6311
K6ABZ


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:10 PM Jonathan Yuen 
mailto:jonathan.y...@slu.se>> wrote:
Hello,

I actually am trying to connect a Psion 5MX with it's 'serial cable' to a 
raspberry pi, the serial lines on the GPIO thing.  The pi is TTL, so I have an 
adapter to change it to RS-232.  The adapter is DCE, but the Psion cable 
actually terminates as DCE, since it was made to plug into the serial port on 
your PC for synchronizing etc.  The Psion has a perfectly good comm program, so 
I'm using it as terminal (there is even a VT100 program) but I need the 'null 
modem' or crossover connector to connect it to the level-shifter.  Since they 
were both female, I actually did the test with 3 pieces of maybe 14 or 16 gauge 
insulated wire, maybe 3 cm long, with their ends stripped and pushed into the 
right holes. But I thought I should have something a bit more 'robust' and 
maybe do the other lines as well.

I think Psion actually made a modem that connected to this cable, but that must 
have been DTE...

I guess I always thought of the 'modem' in null-modem as 'modem=DCE' since I've 
always connected DTE things together. But I appreciate the feedback from the 
group.

Jonathan

jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se

Från: M100 
[m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] 
för Tom Wilson [wilso...@gmail.com]
Skickat: den 21 september 2020 20:18
Till: M100 Mailing List
Ämne: Re: [M100] definition of null modem

"Null" means "none" or "zero." So "null modem" means "no modem."
This term is an adjective and should be coupled with "cable", "adapter", or 
some other noun to be of any use.

I don't see a need to re-define the term, since "null modem cable" is well 
established, and we all know exactly what the term means.

Strangely, there are times you actually need a null modem cable to connect a 
computer to a modem. Most CP/M computers used dumb terminals, as did any 
mainframe and minicomputer (also called a mini mainframe.) Since those 
computers were designed to have DTE devices plugged directly in to their 
terminal ports, you might need a null modem cable to connect a modem to the 
mainframe... Of course, in that case, we'd just call those "modem cables" (or, 
more commonly, the 8-pin modular to DB25 adapter would be labeled "modem".) So 
in that instance, we literally used a null-modem cable to connect to a modem

Sometimes I love the English language.

Tom Wilson
wilso...@gmail.com>
(619)940-6311
K6ABZ


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 9:16 AM Lee Kelley 
mailto:l...@3footed.com>>>
 wrote:
I've always thought "null modem" was a misnomer. It probably should have been 
called a "non modem cable" or simply a cross over cable as mentioned above.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 11:06 RETRO Innovations 
mailto:go4re...@go4retro.com>>>
 wrote:
On