Re: [M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[Ben Strewens]

I went ahead and bought one :)

On 2020-07-15 6:15 p.m., Francois Gurin wrote:
... And thank you for it.  I bought one for the TPPD2 recently and can 
say the attention to detail is clear.  As a favor I would expect a 
generic floppy with a hand wriiten label.  The disk I got from 
arcadeshopper is on display on a shelf.


On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 10:32 PM Brian K. White > wrote:


On 7/14/20 8:36 PM, Ben Strewens wrote:
> I have one of these drives, but no disk for it. I was able to do
the PC
> hack to make it work, but I'd rather have the disk. Is there
anyone in
> Canada that could make one for me for a small fee?

I made up a bunch of TPDD1 and TPDD2 disks from NOS disks,
designed and
laserprinted nice labels on good glossy stock, and they are for
sale on
arcadeshopper.com 

(I don't run that shop, I just sent him the stuff to distribute
that way
so they are discoverable, and so that he can deal with 100 different
mailings and I only have to deal with one.)

I DID pay it forward several times over, the fact that someone
sent me a
disk for free, and made several copies for free for people for a
while
before making one big batch and dumping them on Greg to deal with via
his store. (and then a couple times saw that disk appear on ebay
immediately after spending time and one of my few nos 720K disks
sending
it to someone for free incuding mail...)

I do feel a little self-conscious or defensive saying something is
for
sale that should just be a favor, but it's only a favor a few times,
after that it's a time-consuming chore, and I don't want to have a
2nd
job as an ebay seller. So I just slogged through 20 of each in one
big
job, and sent them all to arcadeshopper in one shipment, charged him
enough to cover the disks, labels, bags, shipping, and now it's
someone
else's actual compensated job to deal with mailing the individual
ones
out any time someone needs one.

There is no way to hurry the process of making a disk with the
included
backup utility, especially if you test-boot each one, and it puts
wear
on the drive. Especially the TPDD1 disks are a pain because the TPDD1
bootstrap procedure is a pain.

The same goes for the DVI disks for 100, DVI disks for 200, the TPDD
cables, and the DVI cables.

Plus I thought, being a store, it would have a better chance of
turning
up in google searches when a new person got a TPDD on ebay or
smething,
and they go to search for info about it, they would have a better
chance
of finding out that the lost special disk or cable is available, vs a
post or two here where only a few people who happen to be on the
list at
that time ever see it. I don't know how true that's turning out to
be,
but it's got to be better than nothing.

-- 
bkw


> On 2020-07-14 7:32 p.m., Doug Jackson wrote:
>> Ohhh A,
>>
>> Stephen, are you hinting that with an actual drive I could
recreate my
>> own TPPD 1 disk?   That would be cool.  I am just about to do a
belt
>> replacement on one who's belt turned into black goo - When I
removed
>> the belt it literally went everywhere - and then the cleanup of
the
>> workshop bench was spectacular. Alcohol worked a treat :-)
>>
>> While there are beautiful solid state versions of the TPPD now,
but
>> the concept of a drive that clicks and whirs is very appealing to
>> me, Just like the 8" drives in my PDP11.
>>
>> Kindest regards,
>>
>> Doug Jackson
>>
>> em: d...@doughq.com 
>
>> ph: 0414 986878
>>
>> Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com

>> 
>> Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
 
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Just like an old fashioned letter, this email and any files
>> transmitted with it should probably be treated as confidential and
>> intended solely for your own use.
>>
>> Please note that any interesting spelling is usually my own and
may
>> have been caused by fat thumbs on a tiny tiny keyboard.
>>
>> Should any part of this message prove to be useful in the event
of the
>> imminent Zombie Apocalypse then the sender bears no personal,
legal,
>> or moral responsibility for any outcome resulting from its usage
>> unless the result of said usage is the unlikely defeat of the
Zombie
>> Hordes in which case the sender takes full credit without any
>> theoretical or actual legal liability. :-)
>>
>> Be nice 

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[Stephen Adolph]

Interesting!  So a standard drive can apparently read FM encoding.

On Thursday, July 16, 2020, Francois Gurin  wrote:

> Never tried this, but came across it recently
>
> http://cowlark.com/fluxengine/doc/disk-fb100.html
>
> Fluxengine seems to be an everymans xcopy/catweasel
>
> I know one person with a new todo on their list !
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 11:49 PM RETRO Innovations 
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/14/2020 9:27 PM, Kurt McCullum wrote:
>>
>> TPDDClient only works with a TPDD2
>>
>> Well, that's a bummer.  Any ideas on a suitable TPDD app?
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[Francois Gurin]

Never tried this, but came across it recently

http://cowlark.com/fluxengine/doc/disk-fb100.html

Fluxengine seems to be an everymans xcopy/catweasel

I know one person with a new todo on their list !

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 11:49 PM RETRO Innovations 
wrote:

> On 7/14/2020 9:27 PM, Kurt McCullum wrote:
>
> TPDDClient only works with a TPDD2
>
> Well, that's a bummer.  Any ideas on a suitable TPDD app?
>
> Jim
>
>

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[Francois Gurin]

... And thank you for it.  I bought one for the TPPD2 recently and can say
the attention to detail is clear.   As a favor I would expect a generic
floppy with a hand wriiten label.  The disk I got from arcadeshopper is on
display on a shelf.

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 10:32 PM Brian K. White  wrote:

> On 7/14/20 8:36 PM, Ben Strewens wrote:
> > I have one of these drives, but no disk for it. I was able to do the PC
> > hack to make it work, but I'd rather have the disk. Is there anyone in
> > Canada that could make one for me for a small fee?
>
> I made up a bunch of TPDD1 and TPDD2 disks from NOS disks, designed and
> laserprinted nice labels on good glossy stock, and they are for sale on
> arcadeshopper.com
>
> (I don't run that shop, I just sent him the stuff to distribute that way
> so they are discoverable, and so that he can deal with 100 different
> mailings and I only have to deal with one.)
>
> I DID pay it forward several times over, the fact that someone sent me a
> disk for free, and made several copies for free for people for a while
> before making one big batch and dumping them on Greg to deal with via
> his store. (and then a couple times saw that disk appear on ebay
> immediately after spending time and one of my few nos 720K disks sending
> it to someone for free incuding mail...)
>
> I do feel a little self-conscious or defensive saying something is for
> sale that should just be a favor, but it's only a favor a few times,
> after that it's a time-consuming chore, and I don't want to have a 2nd
> job as an ebay seller. So I just slogged through 20 of each in one big
> job, and sent them all to arcadeshopper in one shipment, charged him
> enough to cover the disks, labels, bags, shipping, and now it's someone
> else's actual compensated job to deal with mailing the individual ones
> out any time someone needs one.
>
> There is no way to hurry the process of making a disk with the included
> backup utility, especially if you test-boot each one, and it puts wear
> on the drive. Especially the TPDD1 disks are a pain because the TPDD1
> bootstrap procedure is a pain.
>
> The same goes for the DVI disks for 100, DVI disks for 200, the TPDD
> cables, and the DVI cables.
>
> Plus I thought, being a store, it would have a better chance of turning
> up in google searches when a new person got a TPDD on ebay or smething,
> and they go to search for info about it, they would have a better chance
> of finding out that the lost special disk or cable is available, vs a
> post or two here where only a few people who happen to be on the list at
> that time ever see it. I don't know how true that's turning out to be,
> but it's got to be better than nothing.
>
> --
> bkw
>
> > On 2020-07-14 7:32 p.m., Doug Jackson wrote:
> >> Ohhh A,
> >>
> >> Stephen, are you hinting that with an actual drive I could recreate my
> >> own TPPD 1 disk?   That would be cool.  I am just about to do a belt
> >> replacement on one who's belt turned into black goo - When I removed
> >> the belt it literally went everywhere - and then the cleanup of the
> >> workshop bench was spectacular. Alcohol worked a treat :-)
> >>
> >> While there are beautiful solid state versions of the TPPD now, but
> >> the concept of a drive that clicks and whirs is very appealing to
> >> me, Just like the 8" drives in my PDP11.
> >>
> >> Kindest regards,
> >>
> >> Doug Jackson
> >>
> >> em: d...@doughq.com 
> >> ph: 0414 986878
> >>
> >> Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
> >> 
> >> Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net 
> >>
> >> ---
> >>
> >> Just like an old fashioned letter, this email and any files
> >> transmitted with it should probably be treated as confidential and
> >> intended solely for your own use.
> >>
> >> Please note that any interesting spelling is usually my own and may
> >> have been caused by fat thumbs on a tiny tiny keyboard.
> >>
> >> Should any part of this message prove to be useful in the event of the
> >> imminent Zombie Apocalypse then the sender bears no personal, legal,
> >> or moral responsibility for any outcome resulting from its usage
> >> unless the result of said usage is the unlikely defeat of the Zombie
> >> Hordes in which case the sender takes full credit without any
> >> theoretical or actual legal liability. :-)
> >>
> >> Be nice to your parents.
> >>
> >> Go outside and do something awesome - Draw, paint, walk, setup a
> >> radio station, go fishing or sailing - just do something that makes
> >> you happy.
> >>
> >> ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G- In more laid back days this line would
> >> literally sing ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 10:08 AM Stephen Adolph  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> I believe that it is just not possible to use PC hardware ...
> >> drive, controller... 

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[James Zeun]

Hey

I have a TPDD-II, I've never written a disk image before but I'd be  
happy to try. I do have a REX and a NADsbox, so I figure I must be in  
a good position to copy image to the SDcard and then write it to floppy.


I might need someone to point me to the file that needs writing etc,  
but yeah i'd be happy to help. I am based in England, but postage for  
a floppy disk surely wont be that much, it weighs nothing.


Cheers
James

On 15 Jul 2020, at 03:24, RETRO Innovations wrote:


On 7/14/2020 7:36 PM, Ben Strewens wrote:
I have one of these drives, but no disk for it. I was able to do  
the PC hack to make it work, but I'd rather have the disk. Is  
there anyone in Canada that could make one for me for a small fee?


If I could get mine to image a disk (and vice versa), I would send  
you one.


But, while I was able ot use TPDDClient to read files from the  
disk, the READ IMAGE and WRITE IMAGE functions in that application  
do not seem to work.


Anyone know of another Windows app (or, failing that, a Linux app)  
I can use?


Jim

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[RETRO Innovations]

On 7/14/2020 9:27 PM, Kurt McCullum wrote:

TPDDClient only works with a TPDD2


Well, that's a bummer.  Any ideas on a suitable TPDD app?

Jim

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[Gary Weber]

Seriously?  No need to feel that way at all.  Pretty cool thing you did
creating such professional looking disks for people and making them
available widely like that.  There's costs involved with all of that.  Most
importantly, they're actually out there and available on an easily found
store with a proven fulfillment process.


>   I do feel a little self-conscious or defensive saying something is for
> sale that should just be a favor, but it's only a favor a few times,
> after that it's a time-consuming chore, and I don't want to have a 2nd
> job as an ebay seller.

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[Brian K. White]

On 7/14/20 8:36 PM, Ben Strewens wrote:
I have one of these drives, but no disk for it. I was able to do the PC 
hack to make it work, but I'd rather have the disk. Is there anyone in 
Canada that could make one for me for a small fee?


I made up a bunch of TPDD1 and TPDD2 disks from NOS disks, designed and 
laserprinted nice labels on good glossy stock, and they are for sale on 
arcadeshopper.com


(I don't run that shop, I just sent him the stuff to distribute that way 
so they are discoverable, and so that he can deal with 100 different 
mailings and I only have to deal with one.)


I DID pay it forward several times over, the fact that someone sent me a 
disk for free, and made several copies for free for people for a while 
before making one big batch and dumping them on Greg to deal with via 
his store. (and then a couple times saw that disk appear on ebay 
immediately after spending time and one of my few nos 720K disks sending 
it to someone for free incuding mail...)


I do feel a little self-conscious or defensive saying something is for 
sale that should just be a favor, but it's only a favor a few times, 
after that it's a time-consuming chore, and I don't want to have a 2nd 
job as an ebay seller. So I just slogged through 20 of each in one big 
job, and sent them all to arcadeshopper in one shipment, charged him 
enough to cover the disks, labels, bags, shipping, and now it's someone 
else's actual compensated job to deal with mailing the individual ones 
out any time someone needs one.


There is no way to hurry the process of making a disk with the included 
backup utility, especially if you test-boot each one, and it puts wear 
on the drive. Especially the TPDD1 disks are a pain because the TPDD1 
bootstrap procedure is a pain.


The same goes for the DVI disks for 100, DVI disks for 200, the TPDD 
cables, and the DVI cables.


Plus I thought, being a store, it would have a better chance of turning 
up in google searches when a new person got a TPDD on ebay or smething, 
and they go to search for info about it, they would have a better chance 
of finding out that the lost special disk or cable is available, vs a 
post or two here where only a few people who happen to be on the list at 
that time ever see it. I don't know how true that's turning out to be, 
but it's got to be better than nothing.


--
bkw


On 2020-07-14 7:32 p.m., Doug Jackson wrote:

Ohhh A,

Stephen, are you hinting that with an actual drive I could recreate my 
own TPPD 1 disk?   That would be cool.  I am just about to do a belt 
replacement on one who's belt turned into black goo - When I removed 
the belt it literally went everywhere - and then the cleanup of the 
workshop bench was spectacular. Alcohol worked a treat :-)


While there are beautiful solid state versions of the TPPD now, but 
the concept of a drive that clicks and whirs is very appealing to 
me, Just like the 8" drives in my PDP11.


Kindest regards,

Doug Jackson

em: d...@doughq.com 
ph: 0414 986878

Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com 


Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net 

---

Just like an old fashioned letter, this email and any files 
transmitted with it should probably be treated as confidential and 
intended solely for your own use.


Please note that any interesting spelling is usually my own and may 
have been caused by fat thumbs on a tiny tiny keyboard.


Should any part of this message prove to be useful in the event of the 
imminent Zombie Apocalypse then the sender bears no personal, legal, 
or moral responsibility for any outcome resulting from its usage 
unless the result of said usage is the unlikely defeat of the Zombie 
Hordes in which case the sender takes full credit without any 
theoretical or actual legal liability. :-)


Be nice to your parents.

Go outside and do something awesome - Draw, paint, walk, setup a 
radio station, go fishing or sailing - just do something that makes 
you happy.


^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G- In more laid back days this line would 
literally sing ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G






On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 10:08 AM Stephen Adolph > wrote:


I believe that it is just not possible to use PC hardware ...
drive, controller... to read a TPDD disk.

The disk is encoded with FM whereas a normal drive is MFM.  Or
maybe that is backwards.

Not sure but possibly a Catweasel drive can be used.  But that is
specialized.

Perhaps though a real TPDD drive connected to the pc is good
enough?  I think there is software for that .



On Tuesday, July 14, 2020, RETRO Innovations
mailto:go4re...@go4retro.com>> wrote:

Is there really no way to read the 3.5" disks in a PC (even an
older one, via DOS, with a discrete FDC IC)? I'd like to
backup my TPDD disks, but my M100 

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[Kurt McCullum]

TPDDClient only works with a TPDD2

Kurt

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, at 7:24 PM, RETRO Innovations wrote:
> On 7/14/2020 7:36 PM, Ben Strewens wrote:
> > I have one of these drives, but no disk for it. I was able to do the 
> > PC hack to make it work, but I'd rather have the disk. Is there anyone 
> > in Canada that could make one for me for a small fee?
> 
> If I could get mine to image a disk (and vice versa), I would send you one.
> 
> But, while I was able ot use TPDDClient to read files from the disk, the 
> READ IMAGE and WRITE IMAGE functions in that application do not seem to 
> work.
> 
> Anyone know of another Windows app (or, failing that, a Linux app) I can 
> use?
> 
> Jim
> 
> 

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[RETRO Innovations]

On 7/14/2020 7:36 PM, Ben Strewens wrote:
I have one of these drives, but no disk for it. I was able to do the 
PC hack to make it work, but I'd rather have the disk. Is there anyone 
in Canada that could make one for me for a small fee?


If I could get mine to image a disk (and vice versa), I would send you one.

But, while I was able ot use TPDDClient to read files from the disk, the 
READ IMAGE and WRITE IMAGE functions in that application do not seem to 
work.


Anyone know of another Windows app (or, failing that, a Linux app) I can 
use?


Jim

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[Ben Strewens]

I have one of these drives, but no disk for it. I was able to do the PC 
hack to make it work, but I'd rather have the disk. Is there anyone in 
Canada that could make one for me for a small fee?


On 2020-07-14 7:32 p.m., Doug Jackson wrote:

Ohhh A,

Stephen, are you hinting that with an actual drive I could recreate my 
own TPPD 1 disk?   That would be cool.  I am just about to do a belt 
replacement on one who's belt turned into black goo - When I removed 
the belt it literally went everywhere - and then the cleanup of the 
workshop bench was spectacular. Alcohol worked a treat :-)


While there are beautiful solid state versions of the TPPD now, but 
the concept of a drive that clicks and whirs is very appealing to 
me, Just like the 8" drives in my PDP11.


Kindest regards,

Doug Jackson

em: d...@doughq.com 
ph: 0414 986878

Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com 


Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net 

---

Just like an old fashioned letter, this email and any files 
transmitted with it should probably be treated as confidential and 
intended solely for your own use.


Please note that any interesting spelling is usually my own and may 
have been caused by fat thumbs on a tiny tiny keyboard.


Should any part of this message prove to be useful in the event of the 
imminent Zombie Apocalypse then the sender bears no personal, legal, 
or moral responsibility for any outcome resulting from its usage 
unless the result of said usage is the unlikely defeat of the Zombie 
Hordes in which case the sender takes full credit without any 
theoretical or actual legal liability. :-)


Be nice to your parents.

Go outside and do something awesome - Draw, paint, walk, setup a 
radio station, go fishing or sailing - just do something that makes 
you happy.


^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G- In more laid back days this line would 
literally sing ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G






On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 10:08 AM Stephen Adolph > wrote:


I believe that it is just not possible to use PC hardware ...
drive, controller... to read a TPDD disk.

The disk is encoded with FM whereas a normal drive is MFM.  Or
maybe that is backwards.

Not sure but possibly a Catweasel drive can be used.  But that is
specialized.

Perhaps though a real TPDD drive connected to the pc is good
enough?  I think there is software for that .



On Tuesday, July 14, 2020, RETRO Innovations
mailto:go4re...@go4retro.com>> wrote:

Is there really no way to read the 3.5" disks in a PC (even an
older one, via DOS, with a discrete FDC IC)? I'd like to
backup my TPDD disks, but my M100 is set up for the DVI right
now, and I'd prefer to not redo all of that.

Jim


-- 
RETRO Innovations, Contemporary Gear for Classic Systems

www.go4retro.com 
store.go4retro.com 

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[Doug Jackson]

Ohhh A,

Stephen, are you hinting that with an actual drive I could recreate my own
TPPD 1 disk?   That would be cool.  I am just about to do a belt
replacement on one who's belt turned into black goo - When I removed the
belt it literally went everywhere - and then the cleanup of the workshop
bench was spectacular. Alcohol worked a treat :-)

While there are beautiful solid state versions of the TPPD now, but the
concept of a drive that clicks and whirs is very appealing to me, Just like
the 8" drives in my PDP11.

Kindest regards,

Doug Jackson

em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878

Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net

---

Just like an old fashioned letter, this email and any files transmitted
with it should probably be treated as confidential and intended solely for
your own use.

Please note that any interesting spelling is usually my own and may have
been caused by fat thumbs on a tiny tiny keyboard.

Should any part of this message prove to be useful in the event of the
imminent Zombie Apocalypse then the sender bears no personal, legal, or
moral responsibility for any outcome resulting from its usage unless the
result of said usage is the unlikely defeat of the Zombie Hordes in which
case the sender takes full credit without any theoretical or actual legal
liability. :-)

Be nice to your parents.

Go outside and do something awesome - Draw, paint, walk, setup a
radio station, go fishing or sailing - just do something that makes you
happy.

^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G- In more laid back days this line would literally
sing ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G




On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 10:08 AM Stephen Adolph 
wrote:

> I believe that it is just not possible to use PC hardware ... drive,
> controller... to read a TPDD disk.
>
> The disk is encoded with FM whereas a normal drive is MFM.  Or maybe that
> is backwards.
>
> Not sure but possibly a Catweasel drive can be used.  But that is
> specialized.
>
> Perhaps though a real TPDD drive connected to the pc is good enough?  I
> think there is software for that .
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, July 14, 2020, RETRO Innovations 
> wrote:
>
>> Is there really no way to read the 3.5" disks in a PC (even an older one,
>> via DOS, with a discrete FDC IC)? I'd like to backup my TPDD disks, but my
>> M100 is set up for the DVI right now, and I'd prefer to not redo all of
>> that.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> --
>> RETRO Innovations, Contemporary Gear for Classic Systems
>> www.go4retro.com
>> store.go4retro.com
>>
>>

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[Stephen Adolph]

I believe that it is just not possible to use PC hardware ... drive,
controller... to read a TPDD disk.

The disk is encoded with FM whereas a normal drive is MFM.  Or maybe that
is backwards.

Not sure but possibly a Catweasel drive can be used.  But that is
specialized.

Perhaps though a real TPDD drive connected to the pc is good enough?  I
think there is software for that .



On Tuesday, July 14, 2020, RETRO Innovations  wrote:

> Is there really no way to read the 3.5" disks in a PC (even an older one,
> via DOS, with a discrete FDC IC)? I'd like to backup my TPDD disks, but my
> M100 is set up for the DVI right now, and I'd prefer to not redo all of
> that.
>
> Jim
>
>
> --
> RETRO Innovations, Contemporary Gear for Classic Systems
> www.go4retro.com
> store.go4retro.com
>
>

[M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[RETRO Innovations]

Is there really no way to read the 3.5" disks in a PC (even an older 
one, via DOS, with a discrete FDC IC)? I'd like to backup my TPDD disks, 
but my M100 is set up for the DVI right now, and I'd prefer to not redo 
all of that.


Jim


--
RETRO Innovations, Contemporary Gear for Classic Systems
www.go4retro.com
store.go4retro.com