Re: [M100] can somebody help with REX parts shipping?

[Jim Anderson]

> -Original Message-
> 
> Also, while I have not tried any of these the Macronix MX29F400CBTI-70G
> available from Digikey looks to be a compatible match.

Not sure if this was a typo or not, but I wish I'd read the description more 
thoroughly before I ordered these (luckily, I only ordered 3 to see if they 
worked) - I noticed last night after I picked my kids up and was showing my son 
the Digikey order that the MX29F400 is only a 4-megabit chip.  They do carry a 
MX29F800CBTI-70G which is 8-megabit - do you think that would be an acceptable 
substitute?  (I'm at work and haven't had time to read the datasheets except to 
see that it has the same pinout as the AM29F800)







jim

Re: [M100] can somebody help with REX parts shipping?

[Fugu ME100]

Ouch those delivery times are long! I bought my programmer from DigiKey, I
think it was $50 but it was a recommended unit on the Xilinx software
programmer list.  Seemed worth the extra and it is now part of my tool kit
should I build anything else :)  Wonder why Canada has such long delivery
times.  I have noticed that parts destined for the US clear US customs in
China if they are coming out of Shenzhen, Hong Kong or Shanghai.  At which
point they usually arrive quite quickly into the US postal service.
While you wait you can load the programming software and explore its
features.  

Part numbers can be cryptic and in the past manufacturers were sometimes
inconsistent.  Generally the speed of the part in terms of access time is
the key one for Flash and SRAM.  The package is important when you have to
match an existing design.  However as you gain experience you will be able
to identify them quite quickly.  A few side by side data sheet comparisons
will make things much clearer.  Since these parts are already selected by
the board designer it makes the comparison somewhat easier.

Powered USBs hubs are good and if you want to sacrifice a USB cable you
can get the +5V from any good quality USB charger.  I use USB chargers to
power a lot of projects they are very handy.   The good quality USB
chargers are capable of delivering 2A without any problems, even without
being commanded by the USB device.

I like Digikey they are the only ones who charge realistic shipping, I
usually pick USPS when using them.  However they are not the cheapest and
some of their prices are a little excessive. I am very fortunate to have
Jameco just a bike ride away which makes them my local parts store for the
less complex items :)

On 22/9/17, 9:34 PM, "M100 on behalf of Jim Anderson"
 wrote:

>> -Original Message-
>> 
>> I would suggest sanding along the length of the board it could start to
>> delaminate if you tried to go any other way, the OSHPark boards are not
>> of very high quality.
>
>Good tip.
>
>> Programming in the Model T could cause all sorts of problems the socket
>> on
>> the board is live, not just with +5V, there are quite a few active
>> signal
>> lines that go to the socket.
>> [...]
>> A cheap alternative might be
>> https://www.jameco.com/z/34020-Solarbotics-5V-Breadboard-Voltage-
>> Regulator-
>
>Another good point.
>
>Thinking about it, I actually have a few good sources of 5vdc
>available... a powered USB hub (not connected to a computer) seems like
>it might make a good supply, no?
>
>> If in doubt post the concern/question there are some very knowledgeable
>> folks on this site who can probably address just about all issues
>> related
>> to the Model T.
>
>This mailing list has been invaluable, let me tell you.  I've learned so
>much since subscribing, and from browsing through archived posts.  (I've
>been playing around with the CP/M setup in VT, which is very cool.)
>
>Incidentally, I got my DigiKey order today, which is incredible.  I've
>never ordered anything from them before and their packaging is fantastic.
> I'm kind of amazed that they're able to sell small quantities of
>components at such low costs, individually bagged and custom labeled
>(even my comments from the shopping cart are printed on each bag, which
>is an unexpected bonus - now I don't have to consult a parts list to know
>which bag is for which project and board point!).
>
>Too bad I won't have anything to solder them to for a few weeks yet, and
>who knows how long before the Xilinx programmer arrives from China.  I
>may have working QUADs before I have working REXs.  ;)
>
>To give you an idea of why I'm so amazed to get my DigiKey parcel so
>quickly, here's the estimated delivery times from eBay for the key
>components to reach me here in Canada (and my experience shows that it's
>most likely to take until the end of each time window):
>
>Quad SRAM  Oct 02 - Oct 13
>REX Flash  Oct 17 - Nov 27
>Xilinx programmer  Oct 17 - Nov 27
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   jim

Re: [M100] can somebody help with REX parts shipping?

[Jim Anderson]

> -Original Message-
> 
> You have to google the data sheets for any ICs like the flash or sram
> chips. Every letter means something. The only way to know if a different

When I have a spare minute I'll have to dig up the sheets on those parts and 
see if I can make sense for myself wrt whether they're equivalent or not (the 
AMD flash vs the Macronix flash) - it's just hard knowing exactly which of the 
features are relevant to a particular project when it's your first time 
decoding the part number and you aren't even really sure what each spec means, 
nevermind whether that project cares about that feature or not.







jim

Re: [M100] can somebody help with REX parts shipping?

[Brian White]

You have to google the data sheets for any ICs like the flash or sram
chips. Every letter means something. The only way to know if a different
part number is ok, is to look at the data sheet and see what every letter
of the part number means for both the known-good reference and any
potential replacement. A single letter can mean something like a reversed
pin-out that won't work at all, or might only mean a temperature rating
that doesn't matter at all.

Bitchin100 actually has a copy of the data sheet for the flash chip for the
rex:
http://bitchin100.com/wiki/images/c/c1/Am29F800BB.pdf

Go to page 9 of that.

Look at what the 2nd "B" means. I don't know if the rex actually cares
about that (maybe it's a feature that rex doesn't actually use, and so it
doesn't matter how that feature behaves, or maybe it does.), but clearly
that letter totally reverses a part of the chips behavior.

The other specs are more obvious. We probably don't need
military/automotive temperature ranges, although they don't hurt. The notes
from Steven say 90us, and so generally that means faster is ok too. And of
course we need the tsop package.

-- 
bkw

On Sep 22, 2017 2:03 AM, "Jim Anderson"  wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> >
> > All the items are available on eBay at much lower prices.
> >
> > I bought enough parts for 10 Rex units and 5 Quads in May and the total
> > cost for the parts was around USD $70.  Here are the links (some of the
> > prices have increased since I bought), hope you find them useful:
>
> The link to the Toshiba SRAM was VERY useful, thank you!  Part of the
> problem I have trying to source this stuff (on ebay or even on other
> electronics retailers' sites) without having a BOM in-hand to refer to is
> that I don't know which parts are equivalent.  The SRAM is *mostly* the
> same part number but I have no idea whether the differences in the last
> four letters mean there is something different about it that will make it
> unsuitable for use in QUAD, you know?
>
> I didn't end up ordering the Xilinx chips from ebay though because the
> per-chip cost after shipping and currency conversion was only slightly
> lower than Digikey's price...
>
> > Some of the items originate from China however they arrived well before
> > the boards from OSHpark which took about 14days for my order, however
> > YMMV.  At least for the US there were no import charges.
>
> Yeah, that's unlikely for me - most of the stuff I get from China
> (especially anything with free shipping) is usually four weeks or more.
>
> > I would not recommend programming the boards in your beloved Model T so
> > many things can go wrong.  Just tack on power wires and use a bench
> > supply set to 5V.
>
> I think the suggestion of putting it in the model T to power it was for
> those of us who don't have a bench supply.  :(  What sort of things might
> go wrong?
>
> > The other issue was grinding down the edges of the REX board, watch for
> > the through hole plating it has a tendency to fold into the hole and can
> > cause problems.  I cleaned that out with a small needle file. if you
>
> Good tip - I wonder if it would work better sanding in a perpendicular
> motion rather than along the length of the board edge?  I was also
> wondering if this could be improved upon (for those who have one) by use of
> a finer-grit paper in an orbital pad sander?
>
> > As they say Slow is Pro!  Above all have fun building them, nothing like
> > seeing your efforts come alive on the Model T.
>
> Keeping my fingers crossed.  :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> jim
>

Re: [M100] can somebody help with REX parts shipping?

[Fugu ME100]

All the parts on the list I used and they worked fine.  Some of the later
parts of the numbers have to do with the speed of the parts, package type
and temp range.  So long as the speed is better than that specified you
should be fine.  Temperature range is not really relevant in this
application.  The only issue is that some of the memory and flash parts
might be in reverse format where the pins are mirrored to the normal part,
this made laying out boards much easier in the day.  This projects needs
the normal format TSOP package.

I would suggest sanding along the length of the board it could start to
delaminate if you tried to go any other way, the OSHPark boards are not of
very high quality.  You will find once you have passed the thick part and
entered the holes it will grind away much quicker just keep checking to
make sure you do not pass the guidelines.  The first one I did I nearly
overshot LOL.  

Programming in the Model T could cause all sorts of problems the socket on
the board is live, not just with +5V, there are quite a few active signal
lines that go to the socket.  IF the REX board has a short you may end up
shorting out the +5V lines themselves which could damage the power supply
on the model T. The JTAG lines used to program the Xilinx also appear on
the edge of the board which means they could end up driving signal lines
on the board and over stressing components when programming. If you have
any sort of mishap while programming the board it could translate into a
damaged Model T.  The Model Ts are pretty well beyond their expected life
and in the failure part of the life cycle so any additional stress might
just push it over the edge.  You will most likely lose all the RAM
contents so make sure you have a backup of anything important.  If you do
go this route you might want to hold the model T in reset so it is not
actively running, the +5V will still be present.  Rig it so the reset
button is pressed & held in while you program.  Personally using the model
T would be a none starter for me.

A cheap alternative might be
https://www.jameco.com/z/34020-Solarbotics-5V-Breadboard-Voltage-Regulator-
Kit-Unassembled-_2115750.html.  This is a +5V power board that does need
assembly but think of it as practice for the REX board.  You could then
rig up a protoboard with the REX and this supply, then play and experiment
without worrying about the Model T.  Might reduce the stress levels all
around :)  You also have a +5V supply for the next project that comes
along and piques your interest.

Before applying power run a quick continuity check on the +5V make sure
there a no shorts.  Also inspect all the pins and around the capacitor to
make sure no solder has shorted out any pins. There are no solder balls or
streaks anywhere.  I usually ³wash² all my boards with water/alcohol mix
and an old toothbrush after assembly and before I very carefully inspect
them.  You can dry them with a paper towel.

If in doubt post the concern/question there are some very knowledgeable
folks on this site who can probably address just about all issues related
to the Model T.  


On 21/9/17, 5:03 PM, "M100 on behalf of Jim Anderson"
 wrote:

>> -Original Message-
>> 
>> All the items are available on eBay at much lower prices.
>> 
>> I bought enough parts for 10 Rex units and 5 Quads in May and the total
>> cost for the parts was around USD $70.  Here are the links (some of the
>> prices have increased since I bought), hope you find them useful:
>
>The link to the Toshiba SRAM was VERY useful, thank you!  Part of the
>problem I have trying to source this stuff (on ebay or even on other
>electronics retailers' sites) without having a BOM in-hand to refer to is
>that I don't know which parts are equivalent.  The SRAM is *mostly* the
>same part number but I have no idea whether the differences in the last
>four letters mean there is something different about it that will make it
>unsuitable for use in QUAD, you know?
>
>I didn't end up ordering the Xilinx chips from ebay though because the
>per-chip cost after shipping and currency conversion was only slightly
>lower than Digikey's price...
>
>> Some of the items originate from China however they arrived well before
>> the boards from OSHpark which took about 14days for my order, however
>> YMMV.  At least for the US there were no import charges.
>
>Yeah, that's unlikely for me - most of the stuff I get from China
>(especially anything with free shipping) is usually four weeks or more.
>
>> I would not recommend programming the boards in your beloved Model T so
>> many things can go wrong.  Just tack on power wires and use a bench
>> supply set to 5V.
>
>I think the suggestion of putting it in the model T to power it was for
>those of us who don't have a bench supply.  :(  What sort of things might
>go wrong?
>
>> The other issue was grinding down the edges of the REX board, watch for
>> the 

Re: [M100] can somebody help with REX parts shipping?

[Jim Anderson]

> -Original Message-
> 
> All the items are available on eBay at much lower prices.
> 
> I bought enough parts for 10 Rex units and 5 Quads in May and the total
> cost for the parts was around USD $70.  Here are the links (some of the
> prices have increased since I bought), hope you find them useful:

The link to the Toshiba SRAM was VERY useful, thank you!  Part of the problem I 
have trying to source this stuff (on ebay or even on other electronics 
retailers' sites) without having a BOM in-hand to refer to is that I don't know 
which parts are equivalent.  The SRAM is *mostly* the same part number but I 
have no idea whether the differences in the last four letters mean there is 
something different about it that will make it unsuitable for use in QUAD, you 
know?

I didn't end up ordering the Xilinx chips from ebay though because the per-chip 
cost after shipping and currency conversion was only slightly lower than 
Digikey's price...

> Some of the items originate from China however they arrived well before
> the boards from OSHpark which took about 14days for my order, however
> YMMV.  At least for the US there were no import charges.

Yeah, that's unlikely for me - most of the stuff I get from China (especially 
anything with free shipping) is usually four weeks or more.

> I would not recommend programming the boards in your beloved Model T so
> many things can go wrong.  Just tack on power wires and use a bench
> supply set to 5V.

I think the suggestion of putting it in the model T to power it was for those 
of us who don't have a bench supply.  :(  What sort of things might go wrong?

> The other issue was grinding down the edges of the REX board, watch for
> the through hole plating it has a tendency to fold into the hole and can
> cause problems.  I cleaned that out with a small needle file. if you

Good tip - I wonder if it would work better sanding in a perpendicular motion 
rather than along the length of the board edge?  I was also wondering if this 
could be improved upon (for those who have one) by use of a finer-grit paper in 
an orbital pad sander?

> As they say Slow is Pro!  Above all have fun building them, nothing like
> seeing your efforts come alive on the Model T.

Keeping my fingers crossed.  :)







jim

Re: [M100] can somebody help with REX parts shipping?

[Jim Anderson]

> -Original Message-
> 
> Also, while I have not tried any of these the Macronix MX29F400CBTI-70G
> available from Digikey looks to be a compatible match.

Thank you for the pointers - I did end up buying some of the original type from 
ebay and a few of the Macronix chips from Digikey with my order, since they 
were cheap enough and if I can build a working REX I'll try building the next 
one with one of the Macronix chips to see what happens.

Sorry, all, for the panic.  I guess I'm set now, we'll just have to see how 
long it takes before I get everything.  The Digikey shipment is set to arrive 
tomorrow (yaay domestic shipping) but a lot of the rest of it, particularly the 
ebay purchases, have predicted arrival times between a couple of weeks and 
pushing into the beginning of November (booo international shipping). 







jim

Re: [M100] can somebody help with REX parts shipping?

[Fugu ME100]

All the items are available on eBay at much lower prices.

I bought enough parts for 10 Rex units and 5 Quads in May and the total
cost for the parts was around USD $70.  Here are the links (some of the
prices have increased since I bought), hope you find them useful:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOSHIBA-TC551001CFTI-85L-128KX8-STANDARD-SRAM-85ns-
TSOP-32-PIN-IND-TEMP-X10/321925695100?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid
=p2057872.m2749.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-AM29F800BB-70EC-AM29F800BB/271129079709?ssPageN
ame=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/XCR3064XL-10V-XILINX-CPLD-CoolRunner-XPLA3-Family-1
-5K-Gates-64-Ma-x-10-PC-/263063627023?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-pcs-1x40-Pin-Single-Row-2-54mm-Round-Male-Header
-M114-connector-gold-plated/262937197424?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trk
sid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Some of the items originate from China however they arrived well before
the boards from OSHpark which took about 14days for my order, however
YMMV.  At least for the US there were no import charges.

Some quick observationsŠ..

Ended up building 6 REX and 3 QUADs they all worked fine (well I did have
1 dry joint on the last REX but I was tired :) ).  One issue was with the
footprints, they are not ideal for hand building just be patient and do
not try to rush to the finish line.  I use a 10x loupe to check my work
especially for shorts.  Also would recommend solder paste which I find
much better for SM parts.

The new Xilinx programming software (you will need to create a free
account on Xilinx to download) ran fine on a Win 10 machine, the main
issue was pulling the program enable pin. I ended up tack soldering a wire
to the resistor and the power line.  Also had to tack solder a header to
the programming pins to provide a good connection. The staggered holes
would not work for me it caused no end of headaches.

I would not recommend programming the boards in your beloved Model T so
many things can go wrong.  Just tack on power wires and use a bench supply
set to 5V.  

The other issue was grinding down the edges of the REX board, watch for
the through hole plating it has a tendency to fold into the hole and can
cause problems.  I cleaned that out with a small needle file. if you don¹t
watch it can cause a jam in the OPTrom socket which is tricky to deal
with. Once you have sanded do clean the board with alcohol to remove the
dust and your fingerprints.

The QUAD board has issues with the parts being too close to the header
pins you may need to sand the plastic off one side of your header to
achieve the best fit depending on which header pins you buy.

As they say Slow is Pro!  Above all have fun building them, nothing like
seeing your efforts come alive on the Model T.

Regards
Ian

On 20/9/17, 9:09 PM, "M100 on behalf of Jim Anderson"
 wrote:

>So... I decided to pull the trigger on building my own set of REX
>modules, and now I'm a bit stuck at verical's shipping-charges gunpoint...
>
>The main thing I was concerned about was that the cost of the boards from
>OSH Park was not discussed anywhere and not available without making an
>account, so I'd assumed it was going to be the most outrageous cost of
>the whole project.  After finding out that it's not anywhere near what I
>was expecting to pay (and shipping to Canada is free), I was nearly giddy
>and ordered six REX boards and three QUAD boards (figured why not, it was
>only a little bit more and if I can figure out what SRAM chip would work
>with it I could build some).
>
>Ordering from Digikey is also no problem - switch over to digikey.ca and
>shipping is only $8 for orders under $100.
>
>Then I go to order the flash chips from verical.  I'm sitting here
>staring at the checkout form now, jaw agape, as it offers me a choice of
>shipping methods ranging in price from $46.70 to $57.76 (for half a dozen
>chips!!!).  Apparently they only ship to Canada by courier.  Chatted with
>their customer service and this was confirmed - no option for a cheaper
>and slower shipping method.
>
>From the activity over the last day or two here, it seems like I might
>have missed the boat on this, but: if anybody is ordering the flash chips
>from verical, would you mind adding six more chips to your order and
>mailing them to me after you get them?  I'll happily pay you in advance.
>
>(I used to have things shipped to a PO box service in Point Roberts, WA
>whenever I would run into highway robbery shipping like this, but I don't
>currently have a valid passport so I can't drive across to pick anything
>up now.)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   jim
>

Re: [M100] can somebody help with REX parts shipping?

[Brian Brindle]

Jim,

Unfortunately I already ordered and received mine. I did however note if
you search for AM29F800BB on ebay there are plenty of chips available from
various sellers.

Also, while I have not tried any of these the Macronix MX29F400CBTI-70G
available from Digikey looks to be a compatible match.


Brian




On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 12:09 AM, Jim Anderson  wrote:

> So... I decided to pull the trigger on building my own set of REX modules,
> and now I'm a bit stuck at verical's shipping-charges gunpoint...
>
> The main thing I was concerned about was that the cost of the boards from
> OSH Park was not discussed anywhere and not available without making an
> account, so I'd assumed it was going to be the most outrageous cost of the
> whole project.  After finding out that it's not anywhere near what I was
> expecting to pay (and shipping to Canada is free), I was nearly giddy and
> ordered six REX boards and three QUAD boards (figured why not, it was only
> a little bit more and if I can figure out what SRAM chip would work with it
> I could build some).
>
> Ordering from Digikey is also no problem - switch over to digikey.ca and
> shipping is only $8 for orders under $100.
>
> Then I go to order the flash chips from verical.  I'm sitting here staring
> at the checkout form now, jaw agape, as it offers me a choice of shipping
> methods ranging in price from $46.70 to $57.76 (for half a dozen
> chips!!!).  Apparently they only ship to Canada by courier.  Chatted with
> their customer service and this was confirmed - no option for a cheaper and
> slower shipping method.
>
> From the activity over the last day or two here, it seems like I might
> have missed the boat on this, but: if anybody is ordering the flash chips
> from verical, would you mind adding six more chips to your order and
> mailing them to me after you get them?  I'll happily pay you in advance.
>
> (I used to have things shipped to a PO box service in Point Roberts, WA
> whenever I would run into highway robbery shipping like this, but I don't
> currently have a valid passport so I can't drive across to pick anything up
> now.)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> jim
>
>

[M100] can somebody help with REX parts shipping?

[Jim Anderson]

So... I decided to pull the trigger on building my own set of REX modules, and 
now I'm a bit stuck at verical's shipping-charges gunpoint...

The main thing I was concerned about was that the cost of the boards from OSH 
Park was not discussed anywhere and not available without making an account, so 
I'd assumed it was going to be the most outrageous cost of the whole project.  
After finding out that it's not anywhere near what I was expecting to pay (and 
shipping to Canada is free), I was nearly giddy and ordered six REX boards and 
three QUAD boards (figured why not, it was only a little bit more and if I can 
figure out what SRAM chip would work with it I could build some).

Ordering from Digikey is also no problem - switch over to digikey.ca and 
shipping is only $8 for orders under $100.

Then I go to order the flash chips from verical.  I'm sitting here staring at 
the checkout form now, jaw agape, as it offers me a choice of shipping methods 
ranging in price from $46.70 to $57.76 (for half a dozen chips!!!).  Apparently 
they only ship to Canada by courier.  Chatted with their customer service and 
this was confirmed - no option for a cheaper and slower shipping method.

>From the activity over the last day or two here, it seems like I might have 
>missed the boat on this, but: if anybody is ordering the flash chips from 
>verical, would you mind adding six more chips to your order and mailing them 
>to me after you get them?  I'll happily pay you in advance.

(I used to have things shipped to a PO box service in Point Roberts, WA 
whenever I would run into highway robbery shipping like this, but I don't 
currently have a valid passport so I can't drive across to pick anything up 
now.)







jim