Re: [M100] diy pins
The proper molex chip carrier is designed to hold a dip. On Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 5:00 PM Josh Malone wrote: > What could be the possible use for a DIP package REX? > > On Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 16:35 Brian White wrote: > >> Also, I didn't say anything about desoldering the option rom socket. In >> fact I said the opposite. I said imagine a rex in a real carrier just like >> an original commercial rom instead of needing the castellated edge pins and >> spacers and extraction ribbon. >> >> I did talk about desoldering the main rom, and in the context of saying >> you don't want to do it. >> >> On Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 1:09 PM Stephen Adolph >> wrote: >> >>> May not be obvious to everyone, but I designed the T200 Ram module for >>> my own purposes, with my own on-hand components, and subsequently released >>> it. Citing it as an example of poor design choices isn't fair as a >>> result. By all means, please put in the work to design build and test and >>> share an improved design. >>> >>> REX is plug and play. I think most people would prefer to plug into the >>> existing MOLEX...without a need to solder in a socket. >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> - Original Message - >>>> *From:* Brian White >>>> *To:* m...@bitchin100.com >>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 20, 2018 4:59 AM >>>> *Subject:* [M100] diy pins >>>> >>>> Holy cow cool... >>>> >>>> One of the significant challenges developing new devices to put into >>>> the old devices is simply the physical pins. >>>> >>>> Standard common pins, whether square or round, are usually too big to >>>> work (without damage) in most chip sockets, and in several instances there >>>> is not enough vertical space available to remove a normal dip andnput in a >>>> pcb with pin headers with shoulders. >>>> >>>> We resort to measures like: >>>> http://tandy.wiki/Model_200_RAM >>>> >>>> >>>>
Re: [M100] diy pins
That probably does represent the best way to deal with the main rom, go ahead and solder a chip to a module, and just use a programming adapter to re-program. I wanted the replacement rom to be programmable without a special adapter later, so I went the other way, and I was able to desolder the original sockets in a pretty well damage free way on all 3 machines I did that to. Didn't cut the legs or overcook the pcb. I could actually put everything back to stock, even with the original sockets. But I can't recommend desoldering the original sockets as a general rule. The ideal would be if a module could have thin legs that wouldn't deform the original socket, and was shallow enough to have room for a socket on the adapter. On Sep 20, 2018 12:44 PM, "Mike Stein" wrote: Interesting and convenient but at 10 cents apiece I'll stick with the pins from DIP plugs/transition connectors that I've mentioned here several times and that I use to plug into an IC socket; same thickness as IC legs, $.0175 ea. I sent Greg a sample back in June when he was building a batch of adapters but I don't know whether he actually used them; they took so long to arrive that I think he used something else in the meantime. How would these pins allow adding a socket to a main ROM? You'd still have the thickness of two sockets, the (E)EPROM and the circuit board, no? But since you essentially get a free programming adapter with the DIP main ROM adapter on Oshpark I haven't seen the lack of a socket as a real problem. m - Original Message - *From:* Brian White *To:* m...@bitchin100.com *Sent:* Thursday, September 20, 2018 4:59 AM *Subject:* [M100] diy pins Holy cow cool... One of the significant challenges developing new devices to put into the old devices is simply the physical pins. Standard common pins, whether square or round, are usually too big to work (without damage) in most chip sockets, and in several instances there is not enough vertical space available to remove a normal dip andnput in a pcb with pin headers with shoulders. We resort to measures like: http://tandy.wiki/Model_200_RAM I don't know how long these things have been around but, but just now is the first time I ever saw them... https://www.sparkfun.com/products/14086 Dang that's a problem solver. For one thing I'm imagining a tweaked version of REX where these are soldered to the top surface pointing straight out parallel with the pcb, and after you remove the jigs you bend the pins down 90 degrees and put the pcb right in to a real molex carrier (or a 3d printed copy, the files for 2 versions are available, and at least one service, Shapeways, can produce prints that work, so it's not limited to my supply of original ones). REX in a proper carrier. Polarity-keyed. No extraction ribbon. No spacer. No risk of mangled socket pins from getting the spacer wrong. No flapping copper flags possibly shorting between pins from the router cutting the castellated half-holes. Same goes for the simpler Figtronix eprom adapter boards. These would also be useful for a main rom adapter that can still have room for both a socket on the adapter and still keep the original socket on the motherboard. And of course the example I mentioned above with the Model 200 ram where there is just no extra vertical space available between the socket and the enclosure door. Biggest problem is... how long will these actually be available? Those edge clip-on dip legs were pretty cool too, but all I can do is look at pictures of obsolete items you can't actually buy any more. Ok I guess you can get them, or something similar again... http://www.solutions-cubed.com/products-page/connector/dip10/ Not sure, maybe you could get that to work for a REX too. The option to solder parallel to the top surface and then bend down really makes a difference though when vertical room is tight. -- bkq
Re: [M100] diy pins
What could be the possible use for a DIP package REX? On Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 16:35 Brian White wrote: > Also, I didn't say anything about desoldering the option rom socket. In > fact I said the opposite. I said imagine a rex in a real carrier just like > an original commercial rom instead of needing the castellated edge pins and > spacers and extraction ribbon. > > I did talk about desoldering the main rom, and in the context of saying > you don't want to do it. > > On Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 1:09 PM Stephen Adolph wrote: > >> May not be obvious to everyone, but I designed the T200 Ram module for my >> own purposes, with my own on-hand components, and subsequently released >> it. Citing it as an example of poor design choices isn't fair as a >> result. By all means, please put in the work to design build and test and >> share an improved design. >> >> REX is plug and play. I think most people would prefer to plug into the >> existing MOLEX...without a need to solder in a socket. >> >> >> >>> >>> - Original Message ----- >>> *From:* Brian White >>> *To:* m...@bitchin100.com >>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 20, 2018 4:59 AM >>> *Subject:* [M100] diy pins >>> >>> Holy cow cool... >>> >>> One of the significant challenges developing new devices to put into the >>> old devices is simply the physical pins. >>> >>> Standard common pins, whether square or round, are usually too big to >>> work (without damage) in most chip sockets, and in several instances there >>> is not enough vertical space available to remove a normal dip andnput in a >>> pcb with pin headers with shoulders. >>> >>> We resort to measures like: >>> http://tandy.wiki/Model_200_RAM >>> >>> >>>
Re: [M100] diy pins
Also, I didn't say anything about desoldering the option rom socket. In fact I said the opposite. I said imagine a rex in a real carrier just like an original commercial rom instead of needing the castellated edge pins and spacers and extraction ribbon. I did talk about desoldering the main rom, and in the context of saying you don't want to do it. On Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 1:09 PM Stephen Adolph wrote: > May not be obvious to everyone, but I designed the T200 Ram module for my > own purposes, with my own on-hand components, and subsequently released > it. Citing it as an example of poor design choices isn't fair as a > result. By all means, please put in the work to design build and test and > share an improved design. > > REX is plug and play. I think most people would prefer to plug into the > existing MOLEX...without a need to solder in a socket. > > > >> >> - Original Message - >> *From:* Brian White >> *To:* m...@bitchin100.com >> *Sent:* Thursday, September 20, 2018 4:59 AM >> *Subject:* [M100] diy pins >> >> Holy cow cool... >> >> One of the significant challenges developing new devices to put into the >> old devices is simply the physical pins. >> >> Standard common pins, whether square or round, are usually too big to >> work (without damage) in most chip sockets, and in several instances there >> is not enough vertical space available to remove a normal dip andnput in a >> pcb with pin headers with shoulders. >> >> We resort to measures like: >> http://tandy.wiki/Model_200_RAM >> >> >>
Re: [M100] diy pins
Whoa whoa whoa. No one said anything about poor design choices. All I said was that it's a challenge finding any way to get pcbs into some of these places where dips used to go, using the kinds of parts that are commonly available. On Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 1:09 PM Stephen Adolph wrote: > May not be obvious to everyone, but I designed the T200 Ram module for my > own purposes, with my own on-hand components, and subsequently released > it. Citing it as an example of poor design choices isn't fair as a > result. By all means, please put in the work to design build and test and > share an improved design. > > REX is plug and play. I think most people would prefer to plug into the > existing MOLEX...without a need to solder in a socket. > > > >> >> - Original Message - >> *From:* Brian White >> *To:* m...@bitchin100.com >> *Sent:* Thursday, September 20, 2018 4:59 AM >> *Subject:* [M100] diy pins >> >> Holy cow cool... >> >> One of the significant challenges developing new devices to put into the >> old devices is simply the physical pins. >> >> Standard common pins, whether square or round, are usually too big to >> work (without damage) in most chip sockets, and in several instances there >> is not enough vertical space available to remove a normal dip andnput in a >> pcb with pin headers with shoulders. >> >> We resort to measures like: >> http://tandy.wiki/Model_200_RAM >> >> >>
Re: [M100] diy pins
I for one was not knocking the REX, it's a fantastic device. I think what Brian was referring to was placing the REX into a molex carrier with these pins wrapped around it like a stock ROM would be instead of spacing with cardboard and a ribbon for removal. I agree that most people would not want to remove the option ROM socket. On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 12:09 PM Stephen Adolph wrote: > May not be obvious to everyone, but I designed the T200 Ram module for my > own purposes, with my own on-hand components, and subsequently released > it. Citing it as an example of poor design choices isn't fair as a > result. By all means, please put in the work to design build and test and > share an improved design. > > REX is plug and play. I think most people would prefer to plug into the > existing MOLEX...without a need to solder in a socket. > > > >> >> - Original Message - >> *From:* Brian White >> *To:* m...@bitchin100.com >> *Sent:* Thursday, September 20, 2018 4:59 AM >> *Subject:* [M100] diy pins >> >> Holy cow cool... >> >> One of the significant challenges developing new devices to put into the >> old devices is simply the physical pins. >> >> Standard common pins, whether square or round, are usually too big to >> work (without damage) in most chip sockets, and in several instances there >> is not enough vertical space available to remove a normal dip andnput in a >> pcb with pin headers with shoulders. >> >> We resort to measures like: >> http://tandy.wiki/Model_200_RAM >> >> >>
Re: [M100] diy pins
May not be obvious to everyone, but I designed the T200 Ram module for my own purposes, with my own on-hand components, and subsequently released it. Citing it as an example of poor design choices isn't fair as a result. By all means, please put in the work to design build and test and share an improved design. REX is plug and play. I think most people would prefer to plug into the existing MOLEX...without a need to solder in a socket. > > - Original Message - > *From:* Brian White > *To:* m...@bitchin100.com > *Sent:* Thursday, September 20, 2018 4:59 AM > *Subject:* [M100] diy pins > > Holy cow cool... > > One of the significant challenges developing new devices to put into the > old devices is simply the physical pins. > > Standard common pins, whether square or round, are usually too big to work > (without damage) in most chip sockets, and in several instances there is > not enough vertical space available to remove a normal dip andnput in a pcb > with pin headers with shoulders. > > We resort to measures like: > http://tandy.wiki/Model_200_RAM > > >
Re: [M100] diy pins
I did use your sample Mike. Same as I had purchased off eBay (from China) based on our conversation(s). They are still on eBay under item number: 17115136 A little work to trim the heads off et al, but they fit just fine and do not cause damage to the socket. What I had on hand, round machined male pins, would have damaged the socket. I had both round machined and the square type. Both would've caused damage to the socket. The machined pins would fit the PCB, but leave no room for solder. The square just plan would not fit; e.g. square peg round hole. GregS <>< - Original Message - From: "Mike Stein" To: m...@bitchin100.com Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 9:45:42 AM Subject: Re: [M100] diy pins Interesting and convenient but at 10 cents apiece I'll stick with the pins from DIP plugs/transition connectors that I've mentioned here several times and that I use to plug into an IC socket; same thickness as IC legs, $.0175 ea. I sent Greg a sample back in June when he was building a batch of adapters but I don't know whether he actually used them; they took so long to arrive that I think he used something else in the meantime. How would these pins allow adding a socket to a main ROM? You'd still have the thickness of two sockets, the (E)EPROM and the circuit board, no? But since you essentially get a free programming adapter with the DIP main ROM adapter on Oshpark I haven't seen the lack of a socket as a real problem. m
Re: [M100] diy pins
Interesting and convenient but at 10 cents apiece I'll stick with the pins from DIP plugs/transition connectors that I've mentioned here several times and that I use to plug into an IC socket; same thickness as IC legs, $.0175 ea. I sent Greg a sample back in June when he was building a batch of adapters but I don't know whether he actually used them; they took so long to arrive that I think he used something else in the meantime. How would these pins allow adding a socket to a main ROM? You'd still have the thickness of two sockets, the (E)EPROM and the circuit board, no? But since you essentially get a free programming adapter with the DIP main ROM adapter on Oshpark I haven't seen the lack of a socket as a real problem. m - Original Message - From: Brian White To: m...@bitchin100.com Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 4:59 AM Subject: [M100] diy pins Holy cow cool... One of the significant challenges developing new devices to put into the old devices is simply the physical pins. Standard common pins, whether square or round, are usually too big to work (without damage) in most chip sockets, and in several instances there is not enough vertical space available to remove a normal dip andnput in a pcb with pin headers with shoulders. We resort to measures like: http://tandy.wiki/Model_200_RAM I don't know how long these things have been around but, but just now is the first time I ever saw them... https://www.sparkfun.com/products/14086 Dang that's a problem solver. For one thing I'm imagining a tweaked version of REX where these are soldered to the top surface pointing straight out parallel with the pcb, and after you remove the jigs you bend the pins down 90 degrees and put the pcb right in to a real molex carrier (or a 3d printed copy, the files for 2 versions are available, and at least one service, Shapeways, can produce prints that work, so it's not limited to my supply of original ones). REX in a proper carrier. Polarity-keyed. No extraction ribbon. No spacer. No risk of mangled socket pins from getting the spacer wrong. No flapping copper flags possibly shorting between pins from the router cutting the castellated half-holes. Same goes for the simpler Figtronix eprom adapter boards. These would also be useful for a main rom adapter that can still have room for both a socket on the adapter and still keep the original socket on the motherboard. And of course the example I mentioned above with the Model 200 ram where there is just no extra vertical space available between the socket and the enclosure door. Biggest problem is... how long will these actually be available? Those edge clip-on dip legs were pretty cool too, but all I can do is look at pictures of obsolete items you can't actually buy any more. Ok I guess you can get them, or something similar again... http://www.solutions-cubed.com/products-page/connector/dip10/ Not sure, maybe you could get that to work for a REX too. The option to solder parallel to the top surface and then bend down really makes a difference though when vertical room is tight. -- bkq
Re: [M100] diy pins
at first i was thinking "okay... what kind of trick is this going to be"... but DAAANG! Those are awesome. I gotta get a bunch! -s On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 8:34 AM Rick Shear wrote: > I saw the SparkFun pins a while ago. It was before I had rekindled my > model T interest and had completely forgotten about them. I think they > would be a neat addition to a variant of the REX board and an actual > carrier. I think if I'm not mistaken the REX as it currently is designed > is too long to fit in a carrier. > > The other pins you linked at solutions cubed I've seen clipped on the edge > of LCD displays but look interesting as possible variant. > > What's funny, I was seriously considering cutting the pins off some old > IC's and putting them on a REX until I found the REX's physical dimensions > are not the same as the plastic portion of the ROM's that ride in the > carriers. > > > On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 3:59 AM Brian White wrote: > >> Holy cow cool... >> >> One of the significant challenges developing new devices to put into the >> old devices is simply the physical pins. >> >> Standard common pins, whether square or round, are usually too big to >> work (without damage) in most chip sockets, and in several instances there >> is not enough vertical space available to remove a normal dip andnput in a >> pcb with pin headers with shoulders. >> >> We resort to measures like: >> http://tandy.wiki/Model_200_RAM >> >> I don't know how long these things have been around but, but just now is >> the first time I ever saw them... >> >> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/14086 >> >> Dang that's a problem solver. >> >> For one thing I'm imagining a tweaked version of REX where these are >> soldered to the top surface pointing straight out parallel with the pcb, >> and after you remove the jigs you bend the pins down 90 degrees and put the >> pcb right in to a real molex carrier (or a 3d printed copy, the files for 2 >> versions are available, and at least one service, Shapeways, can produce >> prints that work, so it's not limited to my supply of original ones). >> >> REX in a proper carrier. Polarity-keyed. No extraction ribbon. No spacer. >> No risk of mangled socket pins from getting the spacer wrong. No flapping >> copper flags possibly shorting between pins from the router cutting the >> castellated half-holes. >> >> Same goes for the simpler Figtronix eprom adapter boards. >> >> These would also be useful for a main rom adapter that can still have >> room for both a socket on the adapter and still keep the original socket on >> the motherboard. And of course the example I mentioned above with the Model >> 200 ram where there is just no extra vertical space available between the >> socket and the enclosure door. >> >> Biggest problem is... how long will these actually be available? Those >> edge clip-on dip legs were pretty cool too, but all I can do is look at >> pictures of obsolete items you can't actually buy any more. >> >> Ok I guess you can get them, or something similar again... >> http://www.solutions-cubed.com/products-page/connector/dip10/ >> >> Not sure, maybe you could get that to work for a REX too. >> >> The option to solder parallel to the top surface and then bend down >> really makes a difference though when vertical room is tight. >> >> -- >> bkq >> > -- Scott Lawrence yor...@gmail.com
Re: [M100] diy pins
I saw the SparkFun pins a while ago. It was before I had rekindled my model T interest and had completely forgotten about them. I think they would be a neat addition to a variant of the REX board and an actual carrier. I think if I'm not mistaken the REX as it currently is designed is too long to fit in a carrier. The other pins you linked at solutions cubed I've seen clipped on the edge of LCD displays but look interesting as possible variant. What's funny, I was seriously considering cutting the pins off some old IC's and putting them on a REX until I found the REX's physical dimensions are not the same as the plastic portion of the ROM's that ride in the carriers. On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 3:59 AM Brian White wrote: > Holy cow cool... > > One of the significant challenges developing new devices to put into the > old devices is simply the physical pins. > > Standard common pins, whether square or round, are usually too big to work > (without damage) in most chip sockets, and in several instances there is > not enough vertical space available to remove a normal dip andnput in a pcb > with pin headers with shoulders. > > We resort to measures like: > http://tandy.wiki/Model_200_RAM > > I don't know how long these things have been around but, but just now is > the first time I ever saw them... > > https://www.sparkfun.com/products/14086 > > Dang that's a problem solver. > > For one thing I'm imagining a tweaked version of REX where these are > soldered to the top surface pointing straight out parallel with the pcb, > and after you remove the jigs you bend the pins down 90 degrees and put the > pcb right in to a real molex carrier (or a 3d printed copy, the files for 2 > versions are available, and at least one service, Shapeways, can produce > prints that work, so it's not limited to my supply of original ones). > > REX in a proper carrier. Polarity-keyed. No extraction ribbon. No spacer. > No risk of mangled socket pins from getting the spacer wrong. No flapping > copper flags possibly shorting between pins from the router cutting the > castellated half-holes. > > Same goes for the simpler Figtronix eprom adapter boards. > > These would also be useful for a main rom adapter that can still have room > for both a socket on the adapter and still keep the original socket on the > motherboard. And of course the example I mentioned above with the Model 200 > ram where there is just no extra vertical space available between the > socket and the enclosure door. > > Biggest problem is... how long will these actually be available? Those > edge clip-on dip legs were pretty cool too, but all I can do is look at > pictures of obsolete items you can't actually buy any more. > > Ok I guess you can get them, or something similar again... > http://www.solutions-cubed.com/products-page/connector/dip10/ > > Not sure, maybe you could get that to work for a REX too. > > The option to solder parallel to the top surface and then bend down really > makes a difference though when vertical room is tight. > > -- > bkq >
[M100] diy pins
Holy cow cool... One of the significant challenges developing new devices to put into the old devices is simply the physical pins. Standard common pins, whether square or round, are usually too big to work (without damage) in most chip sockets, and in several instances there is not enough vertical space available to remove a normal dip andnput in a pcb with pin headers with shoulders. We resort to measures like: http://tandy.wiki/Model_200_RAM I don't know how long these things have been around but, but just now is the first time I ever saw them... https://www.sparkfun.com/products/14086 Dang that's a problem solver. For one thing I'm imagining a tweaked version of REX where these are soldered to the top surface pointing straight out parallel with the pcb, and after you remove the jigs you bend the pins down 90 degrees and put the pcb right in to a real molex carrier (or a 3d printed copy, the files for 2 versions are available, and at least one service, Shapeways, can produce prints that work, so it's not limited to my supply of original ones). REX in a proper carrier. Polarity-keyed. No extraction ribbon. No spacer. No risk of mangled socket pins from getting the spacer wrong. No flapping copper flags possibly shorting between pins from the router cutting the castellated half-holes. Same goes for the simpler Figtronix eprom adapter boards. These would also be useful for a main rom adapter that can still have room for both a socket on the adapter and still keep the original socket on the motherboard. And of course the example I mentioned above with the Model 200 ram where there is just no extra vertical space available between the socket and the enclosure door. Biggest problem is... how long will these actually be available? Those edge clip-on dip legs were pretty cool too, but all I can do is look at pictures of obsolete items you can't actually buy any more. Ok I guess you can get them, or something similar again... http://www.solutions-cubed.com/products-page/connector/dip10/ Not sure, maybe you could get that to work for a REX too. The option to solder parallel to the top surface and then bend down really makes a difference though when vertical room is tight. -- bkq
