Re: (,) Who defines pornography?
Guido and Allan, In some ways, mail-art is about provoking a response. I was just pointing out that what Guido sent me failed to do that. As to it's artistic merit: what Guido sent me was a photocopy straight out of a porno magazine, not sex-positive, rather pornographic which is why I was bored by it THEN. As to whether I'm bored right now, Guido, whatever, at least I'm trying to liven up the list with some discussion. You respond to what you respond to in your own way and for your own reasons. RA Allan Revich wrote: These questions to Guido sound exactly like the questions that Fluxus (and all avant garde) artists often get. Like, why do you make that stuff?, who would buy that crap? do you really think that stuff is art? do you make that stuff just to shock people or upset them?. What is shocking to me is that a mail artist or fluxus artist would ask another artist to defend the artistic merit of his art. If what he sends is his answer to a mail art call - then that is what it is. The recipient can exhibit it, collect it, trade it, catalogue it, or do whatever he/she does with the other art received. Anyone who doesn't like getting surprises in the mail should probably not be putting out calls for mail art! As for me, I define pornography as images that are designed to titillate for nefarious purposes. The worst porn of all is corporate advertising that appeals to sexuality to sell consumer goods. Just as bad is fear-porn sponsored by political power interests and designed to scare the crap out of ordinary people so that they will support the suspension of their civil rights. That stuff will do far more harm to children than pictures of naked people engaged in sexual behaviour. This may surprise some of you, but full-penetration vaginal sex is how our species reproduces. No sex act=no humans (or any other animals). Fight pornography with sexuality. So Guido, keep up the good fight brother! Allan *From:* ma-network@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Reed Altemus *Sent:* Monday, May 21, 2007 3:44 PM *To:* ma-network@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* Re: (,) Who defines pornography? I think what Guido is trying to say here is that he himself sends out pornographic mail art and the lack of response he gets he feels is fear or hatred. I say this only because Guido has sent me pornographic mail art in the past which didn't interest me. And also I wonder if Guido has a reason for sending out pornographic mail art and whether it is because he wishes to share an artistic experience or whether it is only a means to the end of shocking, titillating or boring people. Maybe the latter is an artistic experience itself. But who is to decide that? Guido, do you have anything to say to these issues? Why exactly do you send out pornographic images? Please defend their artistic merit. RA guido bondioli wrote: I am in support of the position implied by these questions. Who will say who will say? While I respect everyone's opinion as to what they themselves enjoy or are offended by, I reject the intrusion of anyone who chooses to be offended. The lack of balance that would allow anyone to be offended is what is dangerous. And this social distortion is far more dangerous to children than images of sex. The piece of mail art is insignificant. The fear and hatred felt by the offended is a serious social issue. Finding a way to end fear and hatred will have greater positive impact than getting rid of images of sex. --- Allan Revich [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:allanr%40digitalsalon.com mailto:allanr%40digitalsalon.com wrote: Well it's not a bad description, but the next question is who decides what is or is not obscene, and what artistic merit is, and what has it or doesn't have it? What are the standards? Who sets them? Who gets to enforce them? How do you decide who is qualified to enforce them? _ From: ma-network@yahoogroups.com mailto:ma-network%40yahoogroups.com mailto:ma-network%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:ma-network@yahoogroups.com mailto:ma-network%40yahoogroups.com mailto:ma-network%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Christine Tarantino Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 8:12 PM To: ma-network@yahoogroups.com mailto:ma-network%40yahoogroups.com mailto:ma-network%40yahoogroups.com Subject: (,) Who defines pornography? obscene writings, drawings, photographs, or the like, esp. those having little or no artistic merit. This definition came from Dictionary.com I'm not suggesting any part of this is correct, only putting it out for discussion. Christine Tarantino ME FREE C/O llaborate C/O operate C/O rrespond http://www.christin http://www.christinetarantino.blogspot.com/ http
RE: (,) Who defines pornography?
If an exhibit will be seen by minors, then it is reasonable given the social constructs in which we operate, to place images that are deemed to be inappropriate for minors in an adults only forum. Hiding works with sexual content from adults is just plain silly though. Trying to hide anything from minors is a lost game. The minors find everything. The hiding just distorts and corrupts the minor's response to what is a normal part of being in the world and generates distrust of adults. The distrust leads to the separation from the families accepted norms and the minor is essentially forced to learn about the world from uninformed peers. Is there any surprise there is so much tension and distrust among minors and adults? We are dishonest and sneaky in our relationships with children and they know it. The surest way to focus the minor's attention on something is to try to hide it or deny it. We insist on their negative attention. By calling any attention the minor becomes fixated and develops personal interpetations of the situational gestalt. Personal interpretations mostly based in the uninformed and biased opinions of censors produce a very twisted personality. All censorship has negative outcomes. We as artist have an opportunity to model creative adult behavior. We give away that opportunity in our focus on fears spread by people who follow the rules without questioning the actual social impact of following those rules. We are killing people in Iraq because we were captured in a social trance of fear. We all see how destructive that fear has been. Fear of sex is even more destructive. As artists we should be AGAINST censorship of all kinds. YES! YES! YES! Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html
Re: (,) Who defines pornography?
I think what Guido is trying to say here is that he himself sends out pornographic mail art and the lack of response he gets he feels is fear or hatred. I say this only because Guido has sent me pornographic mail art in the past which didn't interest me. And also I wonder if Guido has a reason for sending out pornographic mail art and whether it is because he wishes to share an artistic experience or whether it is only a means to the end of shocking, titillating or boring people. Maybe the latter is an artistic experience itself. But who is to decide that? Guido, do you have anything to say to these issues? Why exactly do you send out pornographic images? Please defend their artistic merit. RA guido bondioli wrote: I am in support of the position implied by these questions. Who will say who will say? While I respect everyone's opinion as to what they themselves enjoy or are offended by, I reject the intrusion of anyone who chooses to be offended. The lack of balance that would allow anyone to be offended is what is dangerous. And this social distortion is far more dangerous to children than images of sex. The piece of mail art is insignificant. The fear and hatred felt by the offended is a serious social issue. Finding a way to end fear and hatred will have greater positive impact than getting rid of images of sex. --- Allan Revich [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:allanr%40digitalsalon.com wrote: Well it's not a bad description, but the next question is who decides what is or is not obscene, and what artistic merit is, and what has it or doesn't have it? What are the standards? Who sets them? Who gets to enforce them? How do you decide who is qualified to enforce them? _ From: ma-network@yahoogroups.com mailto:ma-network%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:ma-network@yahoogroups.com mailto:ma-network%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Christine Tarantino Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 8:12 PM To: ma-network@yahoogroups.com mailto:ma-network%40yahoogroups.com Subject: (,) Who defines pornography? obscene writings, drawings, photographs, or the like, esp. those having little or no artistic merit. This definition came from Dictionary.com I'm not suggesting any part of this is correct, only putting it out for discussion. Christine Tarantino ME FREE C/O llaborate C/O operate C/O rrespond http://www.christin http://www.christinetarantino.blogspot.com/ http://www.christinetarantino.blogspot.com/ etarantino.blogspot.com/ __Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more. http://mobile. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC __ Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
RE: (,) Who defines pornography?
These questions to Guido sound exactly like the questions that Fluxus (and all avant garde) artists often get. Like, why do you make that stuff?, who would buy that crap? do you really think that stuff is art? do you make that stuff just to shock people or upset them?. What is shocking to me is that a mail artist or fluxus artist would ask another artist to defend the artistic merit of his art. If what he sends is his answer to a mail art call - then that is what it is. The recipient can exhibit it, collect it, trade it, catalogue it, or do whatever he/she does with the other art received. Anyone who doesn't like getting surprises in the mail should probably not be putting out calls for mail art! As for me, I define pornography as images that are designed to titillate for nefarious purposes. The worst porn of all is corporate advertising that appeals to sexuality to sell consumer goods. Just as bad is fear-porn sponsored by political power interests and designed to scare the crap out of ordinary people so that they will support the suspension of their civil rights. That stuff will do far more harm to children than pictures of naked people engaged in sexual behaviour. This may surprise some of you, but full-penetration vaginal sex is how our species reproduces. No sex act=no humans (or any other animals). Fight pornography with sexuality. So Guido, keep up the good fight brother! Allan _ From: ma-network@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Reed Altemus Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 3:44 PM To: ma-network@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: (,) Who defines pornography? I think what Guido is trying to say here is that he himself sends out pornographic mail art and the lack of response he gets he feels is fear or hatred. I say this only because Guido has sent me pornographic mail art in the past which didn't interest me. And also I wonder if Guido has a reason for sending out pornographic mail art and whether it is because he wishes to share an artistic experience or whether it is only a means to the end of shocking, titillating or boring people. Maybe the latter is an artistic experience itself. But who is to decide that? Guido, do you have anything to say to these issues? Why exactly do you send out pornographic images? Please defend their artistic merit. RA guido bondioli wrote: I am in support of the position implied by these questions. Who will say who will say? While I respect everyone's opinion as to what they themselves enjoy or are offended by, I reject the intrusion of anyone who chooses to be offended. The lack of balance that would allow anyone to be offended is what is dangerous. And this social distortion is far more dangerous to children than images of sex. The piece of mail art is insignificant. The fear and hatred felt by the offended is a serious social issue. Finding a way to end fear and hatred will have greater positive impact than getting rid of images of sex. --- Allan Revich [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:allanr%40digitalsalon.com .com mailto:allanr%40digitalsalon.com wrote: Well it's not a bad description, but the next question is who decides what is or is not obscene, and what artistic merit is, and what has it or doesn't have it? What are the standards? Who sets them? Who gets to enforce them? How do you decide who is qualified to enforce them? _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:ma-network%40yahoogroups.com ups.com mailto:ma-network%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:ma-network%40yahoogroups.com ups.com mailto:ma-network%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Christine Tarantino Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 8:12 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:ma-network%40yahoogroups.com ups.com mailto:ma-network%40yahoogroups.com Subject: (,) Who defines pornography? obscene writings, drawings, photographs, or the like, esp. those having little or no artistic merit. This definition came from Dictionary.com I'm not suggesting any part of this is correct, only putting it out for discussion. Christine Tarantino ME FREE C/O llaborate C/O operate C/O rrespond http://www.christin http://www.christin http://www.christinetarantino.blogspot.com/ etarantino.blogspot.com/ http://www.christin http://www.christinetarantino.blogspot.com/ etarantino.blogspot.com/ etarantino.blogspot.com/ __Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more. http://mobile. http://mobile. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC http://mobile. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC __ Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. http://autos. http://autos.yahoo.com
(,) Who defines pornography?
obscene writings, drawings, photographs, or the like, esp. those having little or no artistic merit. This definition came from Dictionary.com I'm not suggesting any part of this is correct, only putting it out for discussion. Christine Tarantino ME FREE C/O llaborate C/O operate C/O rrespond http://www.christinetarantino.blogspot.com/ Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC
(,) Re: Who defines pornography?
I Know It When I See It In 1964, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart tried to explain pornography, or what is obscene, by saying, I know it when I see it. Most Mail Art shows I have attended had an Adults Only binder to hold the artworks that were not suitable for display if there was a younger audiences. It was viewed by request. This way nothing was keep out of the show.
