Re: iTunes 11

[Zachary Kline]

Hi Lynn,
If I may say so, from a voiceover perspective the interface is at least as 
good, if not better, then the previous version. I however did not have some of 
the problems other people seem to have had with the previous version, so my 
perspective should be taken with an appropriate amount of salt. I am 
nevertheless very pleased with this new interface, and I think that Apple did a 
fine job.
Yours,
Zack.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 2, 2012, at 2:14 PM, "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" 
 wrote:

> Hello everybody
> 
> I know that my perspective may not be the same as that of a VoiceOver user; 
> and I promise that I will be sure to try it from that perspective tomorrow. 
> However, from the viewpoint of somebody who has vision, the new iTunes 
> interface is absolutely and totally awesome, one might even go so far as to 
> call it beautiful! I just love the way it brings everything together, 
> including Twitter and, If I am not much mistaken, FaceBook as well. It's 
> absaolutely a pleasure to just be able to click on a tab and see your account 
> all laid out in a nice new interface before your eyes. Very very nice, Apple! 
> So tomorrow I will try it from the viewpoint of a VoiceOver user. Many in 
> here will know that I am passionate about accessibility and I may be in for a 
> disappointment if the interface doesn't come up to scratch for those of you 
> who rely on VoiceOver.
> 
> Lynne
> 
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Re: iTunes 11

[Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith]

Helo Zack

Well, I couldn't wait till tomorrow after all having read your message. Chris 
made the assertion earlier that Apple should have renamed some of the iTunes 
controls as tabs, rather than radio buttons. I agree with that point. Although 
it is still very easy to navigate with Voiceover, a certain level of 
interaction is required which was not required with the previous version. But 
overall, I think the upgrade is worth while. I too did not encounter any 
problems which I considered show stoppers when I tried it jut now. I was able 
to click the "Books" tab, for instance and, from there, click the "Audio Books" 
tab in order to further refine my search. Making sure that the "Library" tab 
was highlighted before doing all of this it was very easy to find what I was 
looking for.

Lynne

On 2 Dec 2012, at 22:18, Zachary Kline  wrote:

Hi Lynn,
If I may say so, from a voiceover perspective the interface is at least as 
good, if not better, then the previous version. I however did not have some of 
the problems other people seem to have had with the previous version, so my 
perspective should be taken with an appropriate amount of salt. I am 
nevertheless very pleased with this new interface, and I think that Apple did a 
fine job.
You
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Re: iTunes 11

[Sarah Alawami]

It sort of works but here is a podcast on iTunes 11 from a voice over 
perspective. I finally got the manually thing to work but yeah.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1672188/a%20glance%20at%20itunes%2011.mp3


Take care and be blessed.

On Dec 2, 2012, at 2:14 PM, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith  
wrote:

> Hello everybody
> 
> I know that my perspective may not be the same as that of a VoiceOver user; 
> and I promise that I will be sure to try it from that perspective tomorrow. 
> However, from the viewpoint of somebody who has vision, the new iTunes 
> interface is absolutely and totally awesome, one might even go so far as to 
> call it beautiful! I just love the way it brings everything together, 
> including Twitter and, If I am not much mistaken, FaceBook as well. It's 
> absaolutely a pleasure to just be able to click on a tab and see your account 
> all laid out in a nice new interface before your eyes. Very very nice, Apple! 
> So tomorrow I will try it from the viewpoint of a VoiceOver user. Many in 
> here will know that I am passionate about accessibility and I may be in for a 
> disappointment if the interface doesn't come up to scratch for those of you 
> who rely on VoiceOver.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
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> mac-access@mac-access.net
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Re: iTunes 11

[Jim Noseworthy]

Lynne:

I'll be looking forward to your findings.

On Dec 2, 2012, at 6:14 PM, "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" 
 wrote:

> Hello everybody
> 
> I know that my perspective may not be the same as that of a VoiceOver user; 
> and I promise that I will be sure to try it from that perspective tomorrow. 
> However, from the viewpoint of somebody who has vision, the new iTunes 
> interface is absolutely and totally awesome, one might even go so far as to 
> call it beautiful! I just love the way it brings everything together, 
> including Twitter and, If I am not much mistaken, FaceBook as well. It's 
> absaolutely a pleasure to just be able to click on a tab and see your account 
> all laid out in a nice new interface before your eyes. Very very nice, Apple! 
> So tomorrow I will try it from the viewpoint of a VoiceOver user. Many in 
> here will know that I am passionate about accessibility and I may be in for a 
> disappointment if the interface doesn't come up to scratch for those of you 
> who rely on VoiceOver.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
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Re: iTunes 11

[Daniela Rubio]

Hello:
I just agree in what you say. The new interface, even with VoiceOver is just 
great. We just have to learn a new way of doing things, but is intuitive and 
fun. Did anybody notice tat now we can just go to finder, coli what ever folder 
containing music, and then paste into iTunes and it will add the files to the 
library and create a play list for them? It is just fantastic!
Cheers
Daniela rubio

El 02/12/2012, a las 23:14, "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" 
 escribió:

> Hello everybody
> 
> I know that my perspective may not be the same as that of a VoiceOver user; 
> and I promise that I will be sure to try it from that perspective tomorrow. 
> However, from the viewpoint of somebody who has vision, the new iTunes 
> interface is absolutely and totally awesome, one might even go so far as to 
> call it beautiful! I just love the way it brings everything together, 
> including Twitter and, If I am not much mistaken, FaceBook as well. It's 
> absaolutely a pleasure to just be able to click on a tab and see your account 
> all laid out in a nice new interface before your eyes. Very very nice, Apple! 
> So tomorrow I will try it from the viewpoint of a VoiceOver user. Many in 
> here will know that I am passionate about accessibility and I may be in for a 
> disappointment if the interface doesn't come up to scratch for those of you 
> who rely on VoiceOver.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
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Re: iTunes 11

[Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith]

Hello Jim

On 2 Dec 2012, at 23:18, Jim Noseworthy  
wrote:

• I'll be looking forward to your findings.

For the most part, I didn't have any trouble. I was able to navigate and 
perform local searches with VoiceOver enabled just as easily as before. The 
only part of the interface which really got me totally flummoxed until I used 
my eyes was when I went into the iTunes Store and did a search for something. I 
found that I could not get back to my local library very easily. I ended up 
having to close the window then re-open it using Command+Option+1.

This aside, and disregarding the fact which Chris stated yesterday, it was 
fine. I was able to navigate my albums, songs, books etc. just fine. I still 
prefer the new interface.

Lynne

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Re: iTunes 11

[Jane]

Hi there.

To get back out of the store, you just hit the button that says library button. 
I know it looks confusing at first, but once you see that and get it figured 
out, it's OK. It will take out out of the store and back to wherever you were 
before.

Jane

)


On Dec 3, 2012, at 10:24 AM, "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" 
 wrote:

> Hello Jim
> 
> On 2 Dec 2012, at 23:18, Jim Noseworthy  
> wrote:
> 
> • I'll be looking forward to your findings.
> 
> For the most part, I didn't have any trouble. I was able to navigate and 
> perform local searches with VoiceOver enabled just as easily as before. The 
> only part of the interface which really got me totally flummoxed until I used 
> my eyes was when I went into the iTunes Store and did a search for something. 
> I found that I could not get back to my local library very easily. I ended up 
> having to close the window then re-open it using Command+Option+1.
> 
> This aside, and disregarding the fact which Chris stated yesterday, it was 
> fine. I was able to navigate my albums, songs, books etc. just fine. I still 
> prefer the new interface.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
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Re: iTunes 11

[Jim Noseworthy]

Thanks much Lynne.

On 2012-12-03, at 11:24 AM, "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" 
 wrote:

> Hello Jim
> 
> On 2 Dec 2012, at 23:18, Jim Noseworthy  
> wrote:
> 
> • I'll be looking forward to your findings.
> 
> For the most part, I didn't have any trouble. I was able to navigate and 
> perform local searches with VoiceOver enabled just as easily as before. The 
> only part of the interface which really got me totally flummoxed until I used 
> my eyes was when I went into the iTunes Store and did a search for something. 
> I found that I could not get back to my local library very easily. I ended up 
> having to close the window then re-open it using Command+Option+1.
> 
> This aside, and disregarding the fact which Chris stated yesterday, it was 
> fine. I was able to navigate my albums, songs, books etc. just fine. I still 
> prefer the new interface.
> 
> Lynne
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
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> or at the public Mail Archive:
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Re: iTunes 11

[Zachary Kline]

Hi,
I believe that there is a "library," button which shows up once you've entered 
the store. If you use this, you will get back to the local library.
Best,
Zack.
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 3, 2012, at 8:22 AM, Jim Noseworthy  
wrote:

> Thanks much Lynne.
> 
> On 2012-12-03, at 11:24 AM, "Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith" 
>  wrote:
> 
>> Hello Jim
>> 
>> On 2 Dec 2012, at 23:18, Jim Noseworthy  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> • I'll be looking forward to your findings.
>> 
>> For the most part, I didn't have any trouble. I was able to navigate and 
>> perform local searches with VoiceOver enabled just as easily as before. The 
>> only part of the interface which really got me totally flummoxed until I 
>> used my eyes was when I went into the iTunes Store and did a search for 
>> something. I found that I could not get back to my local library very 
>> easily. I ended up having to close the window then re-open it using 
>> Command+Option+1.
>> 
>> This aside, and disregarding the fact which Chris stated yesterday, it was 
>> fine. I was able to navigate my albums, songs, books etc. just fine. I still 
>> prefer the new interface.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
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Re: iTunes 11

[Dónal Fitzpatrick]

Hi Gordon,

There is only one thing worse than iTunes 11, and that's the Podcasts app on 
IOS.  I described iTunes 11 on twitter recently thus:

"if an undergraduate submitted this as a final year project I'd fail it".

I stand by that assertion.  Leaving voiceover out of it, the UI doesn't work.  
I've had all kinds of problems, not the least being my failure to create a new 
Apple ID for my mother recently because fields were removed from the tab order, 
and VO wouldn't put the correct data in the correct field.  For example, I was 
entering my mum's city of residence followed by the county, however I couldn't 
get to the county at all.

So you're not alone, iTunes 11 is  (four letter word comprising the letter 
S followed by the word hit).

Dónal
On 2 Jan 2013, at 15:31, Gordon Smith  wrote:

> Hi all
> 
> Today is really the first opportunity I have had to sit down and play with 
> iTunes 11.  My first impressions, and this view could well change over time, 
> is that the interface is now utterly dreadful for the VoiceOver user.  Unless 
> I am totally missing something here, without having to fool around with all 
> of the radio buttons, How on earth is one supposed to find a track in the 
> library?  When I tried highlighting an album and pressed the "Play" button, 
> it started playing on my iPad.  That was not at all what I expected to find.  
> To be honest, unless I'm totally missing the point here, which is perfectly 
> possible, I think this year may see me join the ever increasing number of 
> people who are using alternative audio and media players on their Macs.
> 
> <--- Gordon Smith --->
> 
> If you wish to contact me privately, please use E-Mail in the first instance, 
> before you try the below.  Please also observe time differences.  I prefer 
> telephone calls by prior arrangement where possible.
> 
> E-Mail:
> 
> 
> Telephone:
> 
> United Kingdom:  Free Phone:
> 0800 8620538
> 
> Europe and other non-specified:
> +44 1642 688095
> 
> United States Of America And Canada:
> +1 646 9151493
> 
> Australia:
> +61 38 8205930
> Or:
> +61 39 0284505
> 
> Fax:
> +44 1642 365123
> 
> Follow Us On Twitter:
> 
> 
> Skype:
> 
> 
> --
> 
> 
> 
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Dublin City University,
Glasnevin, 
Dublin 9, Ireland
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Re: iTunes 11

[Phil Halton]

I actually prefer the new interface. It took me a little while to understand 
the layout, but everything is doable and quite accessible. I listened to a 
very good podcast on iTunes 11's new interface from AppleVIS, and that also 
helped a good deal.


- Original Message - 
From: "Gordon Smith" 

To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 10:31 AM
Subject: iTunes 11



Hi all

Today is really the first opportunity I have had to sit down and play with 
iTunes 11.  My first impressions, and this view could well change over 
time, is that the interface is now utterly dreadful for the VoiceOver 
user.  Unless I am totally missing something here, without having to fool 
around with all of the radio buttons, How on earth is one supposed to find 
a track in the library?  When I tried highlighting an album and pressed 
the "Play" button, it started playing on my iPad.  That was not at all 
what I expected to find.  To be honest, unless I'm totally missing the 
point here, which is perfectly possible, I think this year may see me join 
the ever increasing number of people who are using alternative audio and 
media players on their Macs.


<--- Gordon Smith --->

If you wish to contact me privately, please use E-Mail in the first 
instance, before you try the below.  Please also observe time differences. 
I prefer telephone calls by prior arrangement where possible.


E-Mail:


Telephone:

United Kingdom:  Free Phone:
0800 8620538

Europe and other non-specified:
+44 1642 688095

United States Of America And Canada:
+1 646 9151493

Australia:
+61 38 8205930
Or:
+61 39 0284505

Fax:
+44 1642 365123

Follow Us On Twitter:


Skype:


--



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Re: iTunes 11

[Zachary Kline]

Hi,
I agree. It's important to give it time, and not dismiss the whole project as 
dreadful without fair examination. One of the things I've noticed about 
VoiceOver as I've used it this past year is that it tends to make it possible 
for two people to have utterly different user experiences, based purely on the 
techniques they employ. I favor interacting whenever possible, and embracing 
the "groups of objects," metaphor which Apple seems to encourage. Is this 
necessarily the most efficient way to go about things? Probably not. However, 
it suffices for me, and I find the new interface more than workable. I wouldn't 
consider using any alternative media player myself.
As for locating tracks in the library, I tend to use the search box, but the 
radio buttons are certainly another option. Think of them as very much like the 
row of buttons at the bottom of your iPhone music player. They might actually 
resemble an iPad interface more than the iPhone, for all I know.
YOurs,
Zack.
On Jan 2, 2013, at 10:25 AM, "Phil Halton"  wrote:

> I actually prefer the new interface. It took me a little while to understand 
> the layout, but everything is doable and quite accessible. I listened to a 
> very good podcast on iTunes 11's new interface from AppleVIS, and that also 
> helped a good deal.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Gordon Smith" 
> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 10:31 AM
> Subject: iTunes 11
> 
> 
>> Hi all
>> 
>> Today is really the first opportunity I have had to sit down and play with 
>> iTunes 11.  My first impressions, and this view could well change over time, 
>> is that the interface is now utterly dreadful for the VoiceOver user.  
>> Unless I am totally missing something here, without having to fool around 
>> with all of the radio buttons, How on earth is one supposed to find a track 
>> in the library?  When I tried highlighting an album and pressed the "Play" 
>> button, it started playing on my iPad.  That was not at all what I expected 
>> to find.  To be honest, unless I'm totally missing the point here, which is 
>> perfectly possible, I think this year may see me join the ever increasing 
>> number of people who are using alternative audio and media players on their 
>> Macs.
>> 
>> <--- Gordon Smith --->
>> 
>> If you wish to contact me privately, please use E-Mail in the first 
>> instance, before you try the below.  Please also observe time differences. I 
>> prefer telephone calls by prior arrangement where possible.
>> 
>> E-Mail:
>> 
>> 
>> Telephone:
>> 
>> United Kingdom:  Free Phone:
>> 0800 8620538
>> 
>> Europe and other non-specified:
>> +44 1642 688095
>> 
>> United States Of America And Canada:
>> +1 646 9151493
>> 
>> Australia:
>> +61 38 8205930
>> Or:
>> +61 39 0284505
>> 
>> Fax:
>> +44 1642 365123
>> 
>> Follow Us On Twitter:
>> 
>> 
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>> 
>> 
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> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
> unpredictable happen.
> 
> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
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Re: iTunes 11

[Sarah k Alawami]

Oh yah David's podcasts rock. I use the side bar layout or what ever they call 
it as I manually manage music and stuff on my ios device and for me I like th 
lay out better but I do know how to use the new interface and I hope apple kees 
a way to always show and hide that side bar for those of us who want it.

Take care.
On Jan 2, 2013, at 10:25 AM, Phil Halton  wrote:

> I actually prefer the new interface. It took me a little while to understand 
> the layout, but everything is doable and quite accessible. I listened to a 
> very good podcast on iTunes 11's new interface from AppleVIS, and that also 
> helped a good deal.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Gordon Smith" 
> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 10:31 AM
> Subject: iTunes 11
> 
> 
>> Hi all
>> 
>> Today is really the first opportunity I have had to sit down and play with 
>> iTunes 11.  My first impressions, and this view could well change over time, 
>> is that the interface is now utterly dreadful for the VoiceOver user.  
>> Unless I am totally missing something here, without having to fool around 
>> with all of the radio buttons, How on earth is one supposed to find a track 
>> in the library?  When I tried highlighting an album and pressed the "Play" 
>> button, it started playing on my iPad.  That was not at all what I expected 
>> to find.  To be honest, unless I'm totally missing the point here, which is 
>> perfectly possible, I think this year may see me join the ever increasing 
>> number of people who are using alternative audio and media players on their 
>> Macs.
>> 
>> <--- Gordon Smith --->
>> 
>> If you wish to contact me privately, please use E-Mail in the first 
>> instance, before you try the below.  Please also observe time differences. I 
>> prefer telephone calls by prior arrangement where possible.
>> 
>> E-Mail:
>> 
>> 
>> Telephone:
>> 
>> United Kingdom:  Free Phone:
>> 0800 8620538
>> 
>> Europe and other non-specified:
>> +44 1642 688095
>> 
>> United States Of America And Canada:
>> +1 646 9151493
>> 
>> Australia:
>> +61 38 8205930
>> Or:
>> +61 39 0284505
>> 
>> Fax:
>> +44 1642 365123
>> 
>> Follow Us On Twitter:
>> 
>> 
>> Skype:
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
>> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>> 
>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>> .
>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
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>> 
>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
>> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
>> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
>> unpredictable happen.
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>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
>> visiting the list website at:
>> 
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
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> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
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> 
> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
> unpredictable happen.
> 
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> 

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

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the Mac-Access E-Ma

Re: iTunes 11

[Gordon & Lynne]

Hi Donø

Unfortunately, I have so far seen absolutely nothing which I can honestly say I 
like about what Apple has done to iTunes.In fact, I am finding myself even 
lowering myself and going over to W*s gto do simple things like play music.

Again, my views may change radically over time, it has happened before.  But at 
this point, although I wouldn't ever use the description which you hinted at, 
not in public anyway, I would certainly describe it as the work of desuign 
engineers who clearly had nothing better to do in their spare time, or who just 
wanted to drive us all away from their product and who decided that the best 
way to do that was to ruin the product totally,.

Doubtless others will disagree.  But that is my take.  Come back Winamp, all is 
forgiven, and that's saying something!


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On 2 Jan 2013, at 16:06, Dónal Fitzpatrick  wrote:

Hi Gordon,

There is only one thing worse than iTunes 11, and that's the Podcasts app on 
IOS.  I described iTunes 11 on twitter recently thus:

"if an undergraduate submitted this as a final year project I'd fail it".

I stand by that assertion.  Leaving voiceover out of it, the UI doesn't work.  
I've had all kinds of problems, not the least being my failure to create a new 
Apple ID for my mother recently because fields were removed from the tab order, 
and VO wouldn't put the correct data in the correct field.  For example, I was 
entering my mum's city of residence followed by the county, however I couldn't 
get to the county at all.

So you're not alone, iTunes 11 is  (four letter word comprising the letter 
S followed by the word hit).

Dónal
On 2 Jan 2013, at 15:31, Gordon Smith  wrote:

> Hi all
> 
> Today is really the first opportunity I have had to sit down and play with 
> iTunes 11.  My first impressions, and this view could well change over time, 
> is that the interface is now utterly dreadful for the VoiceOver user.  Unless 
> I am totally missing something here, without having to fool around with all 
> of the radio buttons, How on earth is one supposed to find a track in the 
> library?  When I tried highlighting an album and pressed the "Play" button, 
> it started playing on my iPad.  That was not at all what I expected to find.  
> To be honest, unless I'm totally missing the point here, which is perfectly 
> possible, I think this year may see me join the ever increasing number of 
> people who are using alternative audio and media players on their Macs.
> 
> <--- Gordon Smith --->
> 
> If you wish to contact me privately, please use E-Mail in the first instance, 
> before you try the below.  Please also observe time differences.  I prefer 
> telephone calls by prior arrangement where possible.
> 
> E-Mail:
> 
> 
> Telephone:
> 
> United Kingdom:  Free Phone:
> 0800 8620538
> 
> Europe and other non-specified:
> +44 1642 688095
> 
> United States Of America And Canada:
> +1 646 9151493
> 
> Australia:
> +61 38 8205930
> Or:
> +61 39 0284505
> 
> Fax:
> +44 1642 365123
> 
> Follow Us On Twitter:
> 
> 
> Skype:
> 
> 
> --
> 
> 
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
> 
> or at the public Mail Archive:
> .
> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
> 
> 
> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
> unpredictable happen.
> 
> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
> visiting the list website at:
> 

Dr. Dónal Fitzpatrick,
School of Computing, 
Dublin City University,
Glasnevin, 
Dublin 9, Ireland
Tel. +353-(0)1-700-8929
fax: +353-(0)1-700-5442
email: dfitzpat (at) computing.dcu.ie

Email Disclaimer
"This e-mail and any files transmitted w

Re: iTunes 11

[Gordon & Lynne]

Hi Phil

I agree that one can keep moving the radio buttons to change the lighlighed 
options.  But to be honest, at this time, I would go so far as to say that it 
isn't an upgrade, it is a significant downgrade.



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On 2 Jan 2013, at 18:25, "Phil Halton"  wrote:

I actually prefer the new interface. It took me a little while to understand 
the layout, but everything is doable and quite accessible. I listened to a very 
good podcast on iTunes 11's new interface from AppleVIS, and that also helped a 
good deal.

- Original Message - From: "Gordon Smith" 
To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 10:31 AM
Subject: iTunes 11


> Hi all
> 
> Today is really the first opportunity I have had to sit down and play with 
> iTunes 11.  My first impressions, and this view could well change over time, 
> is that the interface is now utterly dreadful for the VoiceOver user.  Unless 
> I am totally missing something here, without having to fool around with all 
> of the radio buttons, How on earth is one supposed to find a track in the 
> library?  When I tried highlighting an album and pressed the "Play" button, 
> it started playing on my iPad.  That was not at all what I expected to find.  
> To be honest, unless I'm totally missing the point here, which is perfectly 
> possible, I think this year may see me join the ever increasing number of 
> people who are using alternative audio and media players on their Macs.
> 
> <--- Gordon Smith --->
> 
> If you wish to contact me privately, please use E-Mail in the first instance, 
> before you try the below.  Please also observe time differences. I prefer 
> telephone calls by prior arrangement where possible.
> 
> E-Mail:
> 
> 
> Telephone:
> 
> United Kingdom:  Free Phone:
> 0800 8620538
> 
> Europe and other non-specified:
> +44 1642 688095
> 
> United States Of America And Canada:
> +1 646 9151493
> 
> Australia:
> +61 38 8205930
> Or:
> +61 39 0284505
> 
> Fax:
> +44 1642 365123
> 
> Follow Us On Twitter:
> 
> 
> Skype:
> 
> 
> --
> 
> 
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
> 
> or at the public Mail Archive:
> .
> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
> 
> 
> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
> unpredictable happen.
> 
> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
> visiting the list website at:
> 

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

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We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something unpredictable 
happen.

Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by visiting 
the list website at:


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To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net

You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
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Re: iTunes 11

[Gordon & Lynne]

Hi Zack

OK, perhaps one of these people who say they like the interface better now 
might care to explain how one would do things like search for items.  When I 
tried that, it failed to find the item even though I knew it was present in my 
library.



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On 2 Jan 2013, at 18:31, Zachary Kline  wrote:

Hi,
I agree. It's important to give it time, and not dismiss the whole project as 
dreadful without fair examination. One of the things I've noticed about 
VoiceOver as I've used it this past year is that it tends to make it possible 
for two people to have utterly different user experiences, based purely on the 
techniques they employ. I favor interacting whenever possible, and embracing 
the "groups of objects," metaphor which Apple seems to encourage. Is this 
necessarily the most efficient way to go about things? Probably not. However, 
it suffices for me, and I find the new interface more than workable. I wouldn't 
consider using any alternative media player myself.
As for locating tracks in the library, I tend to use the search box, but the 
radio buttons are certainly another option. Think of them as very much like the 
row of buttons at the bottom of your iPhone music player. They might actually 
resemble an iPad interface more than the iPhone, for all I know.
YOurs,
Zack.
On Jan 2, 2013, at 10:25 AM, "Phil Halton"  wrote:

> I actually prefer the new interface. It took me a little while to understand 
> the layout, but everything is doable and quite accessible. I listened to a 
> very good podcast on iTunes 11's new interface from AppleVIS, and that also 
> helped a good deal.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Gordon Smith" 
> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 10:31 AM
> Subject: iTunes 11
> 
> 
>> Hi all
>> 
>> Today is really the first opportunity I have had to sit down and play with 
>> iTunes 11.  My first impressions, and this view could well change over time, 
>> is that the interface is now utterly dreadful for the VoiceOver user.  
>> Unless I am totally missing something here, without having to fool around 
>> with all of the radio buttons, How on earth is one supposed to find a track 
>> in the library?  When I tried highlighting an album and pressed the "Play" 
>> button, it started playing on my iPad.  That was not at all what I expected 
>> to find.  To be honest, unless I'm totally missing the point here, which is 
>> perfectly possible, I think this year may see me join the ever increasing 
>> number of people who are using alternative audio and media players on their 
>> Macs.
>> 
>> <--- Gordon Smith --->
>> 
>> If you wish to contact me privately, please use E-Mail in the first 
>> instance, before you try the below.  Please also observe time differences. I 
>> prefer telephone calls by prior arrangement where possible.
>> 
>> E-Mail:
>> 
>> 
>> Telephone:
>> 
>> United Kingdom:  Free Phone:
>> 0800 8620538
>> 
>> Europe and other non-specified:
>> +44 1642 688095
>> 
>> United States Of America And Canada:
>> +1 646 9151493
>> 
>> Australia:
>> +61 38 8205930
>> Or:
>> +61 39 0284505
>> 
>> Fax:
>> +44 1642 365123
>> 
>> Follow Us On Twitter:
>> 
>> 
>> Skype:
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
>> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>> 
>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>> .
>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>> 
>> 
>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
>> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
>> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
>> unpredictable happen.
>> 
>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
>> visiting the list website at:
>> 
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this 

Re: iTunes 11

[cait furness]

Gordon,
If you're looking for music in your library, you can type in what you're 
looking for, then hit the right arrow and find the results in a table.
Oh, first I made sure the songs button was selected, although I really don't 
know if this is necessary or not.  I just tried this to make double sure it 
works.  You can either right arrow or vo right arrow over to the results once 
you put in your search quarry into the box.  I looked for all my Enya stuff, 
for example, and it brought up the first four things, then there was a button 
for 85 more things.

hth,
Caitlyn

On 2013-01-02, at 3:02 PM, Gordon & Lynne  
wrote:

> Hi Zack
> 
> OK, perhaps one of these people who say they like the interface better now 
> might care to explain how one would do things like search for items.  When I 
> tried that, it failed to find the item even though I knew it was present in 
> my library.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> This Message Was Written Using One Hundred Percent Recycled Electrons; Sent 
> From Our Third Generation iPad.
> 
> If you wish to contact us privately, please use E-Mail in the first instance. 
>  You can contact us here:
> 
> 
> 
> Telephone, by prior arrangement only please:
> 
> United Kingdom:  Free Phone:
> 0800 8620538
> 
> Europe and other non-specified:
> +44 1642 688095
> 
> United States Of America And Canada:
> +1 646 9151493
> 
> Australia:
> +61 38 8205930
> Or:
> +61 39 0284505
> 
> Fax:
> +44 1642 365123
> 
> Follow Us On Twitter:
> 
> 
> --
> 
> 
> On 2 Jan 2013, at 18:31, Zachary Kline  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I agree. It's important to give it time, and not dismiss the whole project as 
> dreadful without fair examination. One of the things I've noticed about 
> VoiceOver as I've used it this past year is that it tends to make it possible 
> for two people to have utterly different user experiences, based purely on 
> the techniques they employ. I favor interacting whenever possible, and 
> embracing the "groups of objects," metaphor which Apple seems to encourage. 
> Is this necessarily the most efficient way to go about things? Probably not. 
> However, it suffices for me, and I find the new interface more than workable. 
> I wouldn't consider using any alternative media player myself.
> As for locating tracks in the library, I tend to use the search box, but the 
> radio buttons are certainly another option. Think of them as very much like 
> the row of buttons at the bottom of your iPhone music player. They might 
> actually resemble an iPad interface more than the iPhone, for all I know.
> YOurs,
> Zack.
> On Jan 2, 2013, at 10:25 AM, "Phil Halton"  wrote:
> 
>> I actually prefer the new interface. It took me a little while to understand 
>> the layout, but everything is doable and quite accessible. I listened to a 
>> very good podcast on iTunes 11's new interface from AppleVIS, and that also 
>> helped a good deal.
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Gordon Smith" 
>> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 10:31 AM
>> Subject: iTunes 11
>> 
>> 
>>> Hi all
>>> 
>>> Today is really the first opportunity I have had to sit down and play with 
>>> iTunes 11.  My first impressions, and this view could well change over 
>>> time, is that the interface is now utterly dreadful for the VoiceOver user. 
>>>  Unless I am totally missing something here, without having to fool around 
>>> with all of the radio buttons, How on earth is one supposed to find a track 
>>> in the library?  When I tried highlighting an album and pressed the "Play" 
>>> button, it started playing on my iPad.  That was not at all what I expected 
>>> to find.  To be honest, unless I'm totally missing the point here, which is 
>>> perfectly possible, I think this year may see me join the ever increasing 
>>> number of people who are using alternative audio and media players on their 
>>> Macs.
>>> 
>>> <--- Gordon Smith --->
>>> 
>>> If you wish to contact me privately, please use E-Mail in the first 
>>> instance, before you try the below.  Please also observe time differences. 
>>> I prefer telephone calls by prior arrangement where possible.
>>> 
>>> E-Mail:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Telephone:
>>> 
>>> United Kingdom:  Free Phone:
>>> 0800 8620538
>>> 
>>> Europe and other non-specified:
>>> +44 1642 688095
>>> 
>>> United States Of America And Canada:
>>> +1 646 9151493
>>> 
>>> Australia:
>>> +61 38 8205930
>>> Or:
>>> +61 39 0284505
>>> 
>>> Fax:
>>> +44 1642 365123
>>> 
>>> Follow Us On Twitter:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Skype:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>> 
>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>>> 
>>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum 
>>> at either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>>> 

Re: iTunes 11

[Gordon Smith]

Hi Donal

I am way way behind on mail at the moment, as I am working long hours on a 
project.  Despite the comments which others have made regarding iTunes 11, I 
simply cannot figure out why Apple decided to do what they have done to this 
application.  The most polite way I can describe the interface is "Dreadful".  
For instance, searching for things by typing in part of their name, it's 
absolutely shocking.  All you hear is a silly rasping sound as you type.  What 
on earth is the point of that?  Also, if you insert a CD, there doesn't seem to 
be any way to navigate out of the dialogue which appears with the CD's 
information and associated controls.  I really would love to be able to say I'm 
impressed.  But quite honestly, at the moment, it's entirely the opposite.  I'm 
shocked and incredibly disappointed.  Most of what Apple is doing, I really 
like.  But oh!  How they've ruined one of their flagship products in my pinion. 
 I am now very reluctant to buy from the iTunes store because of the horrific 
player interface.  Many people I have spoken too over the last few days, 
visually impaired and otherwise, have said similar things, for the most part.  
apple has gone to town trying to jazz up their interface.  As a result, they've 
made it visually quite attractive, but practically very clunky to use.

I will listen to others who have used this thing with VoiceOver, of course.  
And, if there's a way to easily navigate the interface, manipulating it to your 
needs, I would very much like to know about it.

Gordon

On 2 Jan 2013, at 16:06, Dónal Fitzpatrick  wrote:

There is only one thing worse than iTunes 11, and that's the Podcasts app on 
IOS.  I described iTunes 11 on twitter recently thus:

"if an undergraduate submitted this as a final year project I'd fail it".

I stand by that assertion.  Leaving voiceover out of it, the UI doesn't work.  
I've had all kinds of problems, not the least being my failure to create a new 
Apple ID for my mother recently because fields were removed from the tab order, 
and VO wouldn't put the correct data in the correct field.  For example, I was 
entering my mum's city of residence followed by the county, however I couldn't 
get to the county at all.

So you're not alone, iTunes 11 is  (four letter word comprising the letter 
S followed by the word hit).

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Re: iTunes 11

[Zachary Kline]

Dear Gordon,
That noise you hear his voice over indicating that a popover has emerged, with 
autocomplete options. If you use the voiceover navigation keys to explore the 
screen, you will find a list of possible completions of your search in a table. 
Can you provide specific things you're having trouble doing? I read your 
negative comments on iTunes and am quite discouraged, as it seems that people 
are trying to help you as best they can. So what, specifically, are you trying 
to accomplish, and finding so frustrating?
Yours,
Zack.
On Jan 6, 2013, at 7:36 PM, Gordon Smith  wrote:

> Hi Donal
> 
> I am way way behind on mail at the moment, as I am working long hours on a 
> project.  Despite the comments which others have made regarding iTunes 11, I 
> simply cannot figure out why Apple decided to do what they have done to this 
> application.  The most polite way I can describe the interface is "Dreadful". 
>  For instance, searching for things by typing in part of their name, it's 
> absolutely shocking.  All you hear is a silly rasping sound as you type.  
> What on earth is the point of that?  Also, if you insert a CD, there doesn't 
> seem to be any way to navigate out of the dialogue which appears with the 
> CD's information and associated controls.  I really would love to be able to 
> say I'm impressed.  But quite honestly, at the moment, it's entirely the 
> opposite.  I'm shocked and incredibly disappointed.  Most of what Apple is 
> doing, I really like.  But oh!  How they've ruined one of their flagship 
> products in my pinion.  I am now very reluctant to buy from the iTunes store 
> because of the horrific player interface.  Many people I have spoken too over 
> the last few days, visually impaired and otherwise, have said similar things, 
> for the most part.  apple has gone to town trying to jazz up their interface. 
>  As a result, they've made it visually quite attractive, but practically very 
> clunky to use.
> 
> I will listen to others who have used this thing with VoiceOver, of course.  
> And, if there's a way to easily navigate the interface, manipulating it to 
> your needs, I would very much like to know about it.
> 
> Gordon
> 
> On 2 Jan 2013, at 16:06, Dónal Fitzpatrick  wrote:
> 
> There is only one thing worse than iTunes 11, and that's the Podcasts app on 
> IOS.  I described iTunes 11 on twitter recently thus:
> 
> "if an undergraduate submitted this as a final year project I'd fail it".
> 
> I stand by that assertion.  Leaving voiceover out of it, the UI doesn't work. 
>  I've had all kinds of problems, not the least being my failure to create a 
> new Apple ID for my mother recently because fields were removed from the tab 
> order, and VO wouldn't put the correct data in the correct field.  For 
> example, I was entering my mum's city of residence followed by the county, 
> however I couldn't get to the county at all.
> 
> So you're not alone, iTunes 11 is  (four letter word comprising the 
> letter S followed by the word hit).
> 
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Re: iTunes 11

[Gordon Smith]

It would be very interesting to hear how people are finding the interface as 
far as easy navigation with VoiceOver is concerned.  Also, a description of the 
methodology behind it would be quite useful.

Not that this is really related, and it is most definitely not in any way a 
dig, or a criticism or a negative comment.  But I often notice that some of the 
people commenting on these items are using Windows for mail if nothing else.  
Again, it isn't really important, it's just something I notice.  I just wonder 
sometimes why people do that.  But, of course, it's each to their own.  And it 
is true to say that some people do it out of necessity as they are required to 
use Windows at work.

Anyway, there we are.  I guess it's each to their own.  But even now after 
being forced to tolerate the new interface, I cannot honestly say I have found 
anything about it which justifies the change, nor can I say I've found anything 
about it which I like.
:)
Gordon

On 2 Jan 2013, at 18:25, Phil Halton  wrote:

I actually prefer the new interface. It took me a little while to understand 
the layout, but everything is doable and quite accessible. I listened to a very 
good podcast on iTunes 11's new interface from AppleVIS, and that also helped a 
good deal.

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Re: iTunes 11

[Gordon Smith]

OK, well I'm way behind on mail.  But as of now, I still cannot find any quick 
ways of accomplishing the tasks I used to be able to accomplish quickly with 
iTunes 10 and earlier.  I found your comment regarding VoiceOver and 
interacting quite interesting.  Most of the time, I personally try to use the 
operating system's shortcuts rather than those provided by VoiceOver.  For 
instance, I always use Control+F3 to bring  the dock into focus.  however, yes, 
I concede that there are times when interacting is useful.  I just sometimes 
find it slow.  That said, when working with my iTunes library in iTunes 10, I 
did certainly see advantages with interacting and other VoiceOver functions.  
In iTunes 11, however, I really cannot find anything good to say about it at 
this point.  I can, of course, use the radio buttons and other controls.  But 
let me give you an example, perhaps you can provide the solution I am missing 
and that may enable me to become more familiar with this new layou
 t.  If you highlight an album, how do you then move quickly to the album's 
contents?  I tried VoiceOver+J and VoiceOver+Command+J amongst other things, 
but so far I've had no luck.  The same is true of playlists.  When typing into 
the search bar, all I hear is a most disgusting racket which I find most 
disconcerting.  Can that dreadful din be silenced?  Just a couple of questions 
to start off with.

Gordon

On 2 Jan 2013, at 18:31, Zachary Kline  wrote:

Hi,
I agree. It's important to give it time, and not dismiss the whole project as 
dreadful without fair examination. One of the things I've noticed about 
VoiceOver as I've used it this past year is that it tends to make it possible 
for two people to have utterly different user experiences, based purely on the 
techniques they employ. I favor interacting whenever possible, and embracing 
the "groups of objects," metaphor which Apple seems to encourage. Is this 
necessarily the most efficient way to go about things? Probably not. However, 
it suffices for me, and I find the new interface more than workable. I wouldn't 
consider using any alternative media player myself.
As for locating tracks in the library, I tend to use the search box, but the 
radio buttons are certainly another option. Think of them as very much like the 
row of buttons at the bottom of your iPhone music player. They might actually 
resemble an iPad interface more than the iPhone, for all I know.
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Re: iTunes 11

[Josh Gregory]

What about pressing command plus option plus us to hide the status bar or I 
think that's what it does? That should bring up the table things. I do know 
someone however, that went back to iTunes 10.7 because they were unhappy about 
the fact that they took out the power search, and reading in the Apple support 
website I see that a lot of people have done the same…

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 6, 2013, at 10:47 PM, Gordon Smith  wrote:

> It would be very interesting to hear how people are finding the interface as 
> far as easy navigation with VoiceOver is concerned.  Also, a description of 
> the methodology behind it would be quite useful.
> 
> Not that this is really related, and it is most definitely not in any way a 
> dig, or a criticism or a negative comment.  But I often notice that some of 
> the people commenting on these items are using Windows for mail if nothing 
> else.  Again, it isn't really important, it's just something I notice.  I 
> just wonder sometimes why people do that.  But, of course, it's each to their 
> own.  And it is true to say that some people do it out of necessity as they 
> are required to use Windows at work.
> 
> Anyway, there we are.  I guess it's each to their own.  But even now after 
> being forced to tolerate the new interface, I cannot honestly say I have 
> found anything about it which justifies the change, nor can I say I've found 
> anything about it which I like.
> :)
> Gordon
> 
> On 2 Jan 2013, at 18:25, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> I actually prefer the new interface. It took me a little while to understand 
> the layout, but everything is doable and quite accessible. I listened to a 
> very good podcast on iTunes 11's new interface from AppleVIS, and that also 
> helped a good deal.
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
> 
> or at the public Mail Archive:
> .
> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
> 
> 
> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
> unpredictable happen.
> 
> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
> visiting the list website at:
> 
> 
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Re: iTunes 11

[Gordon Smith]

Hum!  That doesn't work here.  If I type into the search box and get the 
horrific racket, pressing right arrow just takes me to the end of the input 
field.  If I VoiceOver+Right arrow, I land on the radio button which always 
defaults to "Albums" as the active control.  So clearly I'm doing something 
wrong here.

On 2 Jan 2013, at 20:51, cait furness  wrote:

Gordon,
If you're looking for music in your library, you can type in what you're 
looking for, then hit the right arrow and find the results in a table.
Oh, first I made sure the songs button was selected, although I really don't 
know if this is necessary or not.  I just tried this to make double sure it 
works.  You can either right arrow or vo right arrow over to the results once 
you put in your search quarry into the box.  I looked for all my Enya stuff, 
for example, and it brought up the first four things, then there was a button 
for 85 more things.

hth,
Caitlyn

On 2013-01-02, at 3:02 PM, Gordon & Lynne  
wrote:

> Hi Zack
> 
> OK, perhaps one of these people who say they like the interface better now 
> might care to explain how one would do things like search for items.  When I 
> tried that, it failed to find the item even though I knew it was present in 
> my library.
> 
> 
> 
> --
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> From Our Third Generation iPad.
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> 
> 
> On 2 Jan 2013, at 18:31, Zachary Kline  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I agree. It's important to give it time, and not dismiss the whole project as 
> dreadful without fair examination. One of the things I've noticed about 
> VoiceOver as I've used it this past year is that it tends to make it possible 
> for two people to have utterly different user experiences, based purely on 
> the techniques they employ. I favor interacting whenever possible, and 
> embracing the "groups of objects," metaphor which Apple seems to encourage. 
> Is this necessarily the most efficient way to go about things? Probably not. 
> However, it suffices for me, and I find the new interface more than workable. 
> I wouldn't consider using any alternative media player myself.
> As for locating tracks in the library, I tend to use the search box, but the 
> radio buttons are certainly another option. Think of them as very much like 
> the row of buttons at the bottom of your iPhone music player. They might 
> actually resemble an iPad interface more than the iPhone, for all I know.
> YOurs,
> Zack.
> On Jan 2, 2013, at 10:25 AM, "Phil Halton"  wrote:
> 
>> I actually prefer the new interface. It took me a little while to understand 
>> the layout, but everything is doable and quite accessible. I listened to a 
>> very good podcast on iTunes 11's new interface from AppleVIS, and that also 
>> helped a good deal.
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Gordon Smith" 
>> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 10:31 AM
>> Subject: iTunes 11
>> 
>> 
>>> Hi all
>>> 
>>> Today is really the first opportunity I have had to sit down and play with 
>>> iTunes 11.  My first impressions, and this view could well change over 
>>> time, is that the interface is now utterly dreadful for the VoiceOver user. 
>>>  Unless I am totally missing something here, without having to fool around 
>>> with all of the radio buttons, How on earth is one supposed to find a track 
>>> in the library?  When I tried highlighting an album and pressed the "Play" 
>>> button, it started playing on my iPad.  That was not at all what I expected 
>>> to find.  To be honest, unless I'm totally missing the point here, which is 
>>> perfectly possible, I think this year may see me join the ever increasing 
>>> number of people who are using alternative audio and media players on their 
>>> Macs.
>>> 
>>> <--- Gordon Smith --->
>>> 
>>> If you wish to contact me privately, please use E-Mail in the first 
>>> instance, before you try the below.  Please also observe time differences. 
>>> I prefer telephone calls by prior arrangement where possible.
>>> 
>>> E-Mail:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Telephone:
>>> 
>>> United Kingdom:  Free Phone:
>>> 0800 8620538
>>> 
>>> Europe and other non-specified:
>>> +44 1642 688095
>>> 
>>> United States Of America And Canada:
>>> +1 646 9151493
>>> 
>>> Australia:
>>> +61 38 8205930
>>> Or:
>>> +61 39 0284505
>>> 
>>> Fax:
>>> +44 1642 365123
>>> 
>>> Follow Us On Twitter:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Skype:

Re: iTunes 11

[Gordon Smith]

Hi Zack

My negative comments reflect my disappointment, to be honest.  But let me be 
absolutely clear that I am aware that people are trying to be helpful and yes, 
it is appreciated.

OK, let me try to make this a little clear.  I am typing a search string into 
the search bar.  Then, I try navigating the screen using the VoiceOver 
navigation commands.  I just sen to get stuck in the same dialogue all the time 
and nothing resembling my search appears to be displayed even though I know for 
an absolute fact that it exists.

OK, let me be a little more concise.  In my library, I have several albums 
named "Now That's What I Call Music", with different numbers for each album.  
OK, so I make sure that the "Albums" radio button is highlighted.  Then, I typ 
into the search bar:
"Now That's What I Call Music", (without the quotes).  You may notice if you 
have Braille that I am exact as far as case is concerned.  The albums exist and 
sometimes, I get lucky and land on the album I want.  OK, so I hear "Album 
Grid".  I try to interact with that "Album Grid", but I don't get the track 
information.  Again, sometimes if I'm lucky I might land on the track list.  
But as yet, I cannot figure out what I do when this happens, it seems to be 
random.

I'm sorry if I come across as negative.  I really don't mean to be negative.  
You are aware, I believe, that I am very committed to Apple's products, and I'm 
a staunch supporter of what Apple is doing.  You and I, Zack, have both been 
part of other forums where this commitment is an essential.  But I'm not going 
to say that everything is terrific if it isn't, just because it's Apple.  And 
to be clear, that is in no way a personal comment aimed at anybody.  I am 
merely making my position clear.  it may be, in the fullness of time, that I 
grow accustomed to the new interface.  It may be that I even come to like it.  
That has happened before with other things and I'm sure it will happen again.  
So given the scenario I quoted above, where am I going wrong?

Gordon

On 7 Jan 2013, at 03:43, Zachary Kline  wrote:

That noise you hear his voice over indicating that a popover has emerged, with 
autocomplete options. If you use the voiceover navigation keys to explore the 
screen, you will find a list of possible completions of your search in a table. 
Can you provide specific things you're having trouble doing? I read your 
negative comments on iTunes and am quite discouraged, as it seems that people 
are trying to help you as best they can. So what, specifically, are you trying 
to accomplish, and finding so frustrating?
<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

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Re: iTunes 11

[Gordon Smith]

hi Josh

Sorry, pressing what?  Command+Option+ what was that supposed to be?  I think 
you may have made a typo there. :)

I'll try Command+Option+S, in case that was what you meant.  As for 
downgrading, I'd love too!  But that would involve rebuilding my library over 
again because the format changed I believe with iTunes 11.  Besides which, if I 
just dump the interface now, I will be forever curious as to whether in time I 
grew to like it.  I don't believe in downgrading unless there are really 
compelling reasons to do so.  Thanks.

Gordon

On 7 Jan 2013, at 03:54, Josh Gregory  wrote:

What about pressing command plus option plus us to hide the status bar or I 
think that's what it does? That should bring up the table things. I do know 
someone however, that went back to iTunes 10.7 because they were unhappy about 
the fact that they took out the power search, and reading in the Apple support 
website I see that a lot of people have done the same…

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 6, 2013, at 10:47 PM, Gordon Smith  wrote:

> It would be very interesting to hear how people are finding the interface as 
> far as easy navigation with VoiceOver is concerned.  Also, a description of 
> the methodology behind it would be quite useful.
> 
> Not that this is really related, and it is most definitely not in any way a 
> dig, or a criticism or a negative comment.  But I often notice that some of 
> the people commenting on these items are using Windows for mail if nothing 
> else.  Again, it isn't really important, it's just something I notice.  I 
> just wonder sometimes why people do that.  But, of course, it's each to their 
> own.  And it is true to say that some people do it out of necessity as they 
> are required to use Windows at work.
> 
> Anyway, there we are.  I guess it's each to their own.  But even now after 
> being forced to tolerate the new interface, I cannot honestly say I have 
> found anything about it which justifies the change, nor can I say I've found 
> anything about it which I like.
> :)
> Gordon
> 
> On 2 Jan 2013, at 18:25, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> I actually prefer the new interface. It took me a little while to understand 
> the layout, but everything is doable and quite accessible. I listened to a 
> very good podcast on iTunes 11's new interface from AppleVIS, and that also 
> helped a good deal.
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
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> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
> 
> or at the public Mail Archive:
> .
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> 
> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
> unpredictable happen.
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If you wish to contact me privately, please use E-Mail in the first instance, 
before you try the below.  Please also observe time differences.  I prefer 
telephone calls by prior arrangement where possible.

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Re: iTunes 11

[Josh Gregory]

Yeah, that is what I meant… I guess dictation kind of messed that up,:-) I See 
what you  mean about downgrading. :-)

Send from my iPhone

On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:37 PM, Gordon Smith  wrote:

> hi Josh
> 
> Sorry, pressing what?  Command+Option+ what was that supposed to be?  I think 
> you may have made a typo there. :)
> 
> I'll try Command+Option+S, in case that was what you meant.  As for 
> downgrading, I'd love too!  But that would involve rebuilding my library over 
> again because the format changed I believe with iTunes 11.  Besides which, if 
> I just dump the interface now, I will be forever curious as to whether in 
> time I grew to like it.  I don't believe in downgrading unless there are 
> really compelling reasons to do so.  Thanks.
> 
> Gordon
> 
> On 7 Jan 2013, at 03:54, Josh Gregory  wrote:
> 
> What about pressing command plus option plus us to hide the status bar or I 
> think that's what it does? That should bring up the table things. I do know 
> someone however, that went back to iTunes 10.7 because they were unhappy 
> about the fact that they took out the power search, and reading in the Apple 
> support website I see that a lot of people have done the same…
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 6, 2013, at 10:47 PM, Gordon Smith  wrote:
> 
>> It would be very interesting to hear how people are finding the interface as 
>> far as easy navigation with VoiceOver is concerned.  Also, a description of 
>> the methodology behind it would be quite useful.
>> 
>> Not that this is really related, and it is most definitely not in any way a 
>> dig, or a criticism or a negative comment.  But I often notice that some of 
>> the people commenting on these items are using Windows for mail if nothing 
>> else.  Again, it isn't really important, it's just something I notice.  I 
>> just wonder sometimes why people do that.  But, of course, it's each to 
>> their own.  And it is true to say that some people do it out of necessity as 
>> they are required to use Windows at work.
>> 
>> Anyway, there we are.  I guess it's each to their own.  But even now after 
>> being forced to tolerate the new interface, I cannot honestly say I have 
>> found anything about it which justifies the change, nor can I say I've found 
>> anything about it which I like.
>> :)
>> Gordon
>> 
>> On 2 Jan 2013, at 18:25, Phil Halton  wrote:
>> 
>> I actually prefer the new interface. It took me a little while to understand 
>> the layout, but everything is doable and quite accessible. I listened to a 
>> very good podcast on iTunes 11's new interface from AppleVIS, and that also 
>> helped a good deal.
>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
>> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>> 
>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>> .
>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>> 
>> 
>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
>> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
>> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
>> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
>> unpredictable happen.
>> 
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>> visiting the list website at:
>> 
>> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
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> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
> 
> or at the public Mail Archive:
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> 
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Re: iTunes 11

[Anne Robertson]

Hello Gordon,

I find that the search box is only useful if I'm looking for a song and don't 
know the title except for a word or two. Otherwise, I click the Songs button 
and navigate down to where the Browser is. There, I interact and navigate to 
the column that interests me (Genre, Artist or album) and type in a few 
letters. When I find what I want, I stop interacting and navigate down to the 
Songs table.

Cheers,

Anne


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Re: iTunes 11

[Gordon Smith]

Hi Josh, and all

Yes, the "Command+Shift+S" key combo does hide the sidebar and I believe it 
toggles it so that if you've hidden it, you can show it again by repeat 
pressing the combo.  However, it still doesn't solve my problem.  I am sure 
it's me, rather than the software itself.  We humans are generally very slow to 
react to sudden change.  That is an inherent flaw in the species.  In cases 
such as this, I would guesstimate that others have had far more opportunity to 
play with the new build than I.  Thus, they have familiarised themselves much 
more quickly than have I.  But all the same, having walked away and kind of 
settled myself down somewhat, I think that, although initially I dislike the 
new interface, I need to persevere with it because there will most likely come 
a time in the not too distant future when I actually "need" to be familiar with 
the layout.  So, I shall keep on trying to find ways around my iTunes issues 
and, hopefully within time, I too will come to like the new layout as have 
others.

Gordon

On 7 Jan 2013, at 05:19, Josh Gregory  wrote:

Yeah, that is what I meant… I guess dictation kind of messed that up,:-) I See 
what you  mean about downgrading. :-)

Send from my iPhone

On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:37 PM, Gordon Smith  wrote:

> hi Josh
> 
> Sorry, pressing what?  Command+Option+ what was that supposed to be?  I think 
> you may have made a typo there. :)
> 
> I'll try Command+Option+S, in case that was what you meant.  As for 
> downgrading, I'd love too!  But that would involve rebuilding my library over 
> again because the format changed I believe with iTunes 11.  Besides which, if 
> I just dump the interface now, I will be forever curious as to whether in 
> time I grew to like it.  I don't believe in downgrading unless there are 
> really compelling reasons to do so.  Thanks.
> 
> Gordon
> 
> On 7 Jan 2013, at 03:54, Josh Gregory  wrote:
> 
> What about pressing command plus option plus us to hide the status bar or I 
> think that's what it does? That should bring up the table things. I do know 
> someone however, that went back to iTunes 10.7 because they were unhappy 
> about the fact that they took out the power search, and reading in the Apple 
> support website I see that a lot of people have done the same…
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 6, 2013, at 10:47 PM, Gordon Smith  wrote:
> 
>> It would be very interesting to hear how people are finding the interface as 
>> far as easy navigation with VoiceOver is concerned.  Also, a description of 
>> the methodology behind it would be quite useful.
>> 
>> Not that this is really related, and it is most definitely not in any way a 
>> dig, or a criticism or a negative comment.  But I often notice that some of 
>> the people commenting on these items are using Windows for mail if nothing 
>> else.  Again, it isn't really important, it's just something I notice.  I 
>> just wonder sometimes why people do that.  But, of course, it's each to 
>> their own.  And it is true to say that some people do it out of necessity as 
>> they are required to use Windows at work.
>> 
>> Anyway, there we are.  I guess it's each to their own.  But even now after 
>> being forced to tolerate the new interface, I cannot honestly say I have 
>> found anything about it which justifies the change, nor can I say I've found 
>> anything about it which I like.
>> :)
>> Gordon
>> 
>> On 2 Jan 2013, at 18:25, Phil Halton  wrote:
>> 
>> I actually prefer the new interface. It took me a little while to understand 
>> the layout, but everything is doable and quite accessible. I listened to a 
>> very good podcast on iTunes 11's new interface from AppleVIS, and that also 
>> helped a good deal.
>> 
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Re: iTunes 11

[Gordon Smith]

Hi Anne


yes, this works well if you are searching for a song and you only want that one 
track.  However, our library is horrendously large, well over 50,000 tracks I 
would guess.  Therefore, I need to find a way to move by album or something if 
the search box is going to be problematic.  Yes, one could use the radio 
buttons I guess and, first navigate by artist, genre or other relevant fields.  
However, with a large library that method is going to prove extremely 
time-consuming.  In iTunes 10, the search box was, for me at least, utterly 
invaluable.  But now it just grunts at me which, as Zack said earlier, is 
probably VoiceOver doing something.   However, I guess I'm going to have to b a 
little innovative.  I'll find a solution to the problem somewhere, I'm going to 
have too.

Thanks for your input, it's appreciated.

Gordon

On 7 Jan 2013, at 07:14, Anne Robertson  wrote:

Hello Gordon,

I find that the search box is only useful if I'm looking for a song and don't 
know the title except for a word or two. Otherwise, I click the Songs button 
and navigate down to where the Browser is. There, I interact and navigate to 
the column that interests me (Genre, Artist or album) and type in a few 
letters. When I find what I want, I stop interacting and navigate down to the 
Songs table.

Cheers,

Anne


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Re: iTunes 11

[Randy Stegall]

I use the songs radio button and have show column browser checked under view 
options.  Ypou can turn on the side bar just as you had it in iTunes 10 if you 
like.  I hope this is of some help.

Randy
On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:31 PM, Gordon Smith  wrote:

> Hi Zack
> 
> My negative comments reflect my disappointment, to be honest.  But let me be 
> absolutely clear that I am aware that people are trying to be helpful and 
> yes, it is appreciated.
> 
> OK, let me try to make this a little clear.  I am typing a search string into 
> the search bar.  Then, I try navigating the screen using the VoiceOver 
> navigation commands.  I just sen to get stuck in the same dialogue all the 
> time and nothing resembling my search appears to be displayed even though I 
> know for an absolute fact that it exists.
> 
> OK, let me be a little more concise.  In my library, I have several albums 
> named "Now That's What I Call Music", with different numbers for each album.  
> OK, so I make sure that the "Albums" radio button is highlighted.  Then, I 
> typ into the search bar:
> "Now That's What I Call Music", (without the quotes).  You may notice if you 
> have Braille that I am exact as far as case is concerned.  The albums exist 
> and sometimes, I get lucky and land on the album I want.  OK, so I hear 
> "Album Grid".  I try to interact with that "Album Grid", but I don't get the 
> track information.  Again, sometimes if I'm lucky I might land on the track 
> list.  But as yet, I cannot figure out what I do when this happens, it seems 
> to be random.
> 
> I'm sorry if I come across as negative.  I really don't mean to be negative.  
> You are aware, I believe, that I am very committed to Apple's products, and 
> I'm a staunch supporter of what Apple is doing.  You and I, Zack, have both 
> been part of other forums where this commitment is an essential.  But I'm not 
> going to say that everything is terrific if it isn't, just because it's 
> Apple.  And to be clear, that is in no way a personal comment aimed at 
> anybody.  I am merely making my position clear.  it may be, in the fullness 
> of time, that I grow accustomed to the new interface.  It may be that I even 
> come to like it.  That has happened before with other things and I'm sure it 
> will happen again.  So given the scenario I quoted above, where am I going 
> wrong?
> 
> Gordon

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Re: iTunes 11

[Randy Stegall]

Gordon, when I use the search field I hear the sound and can down arrow through 
the selections that are announced by VO add to up next.  I haven't tried 
choosing one to see what happens, but I think I can see where this could be a 
problem with such a large library.

Randy
On Jan 7, 2013, at 8:13 AM, Gordon Smith  wrote:

> Hi Anne
> 
> 
> yes, this works well if you are searching for a song and you only want that 
> one track.  However, our library is horrendously large, well over 50,000 
> tracks I would guess.  Therefore, I need to find a way to move by album or 
> something if the search box is going to be problematic.  Yes, one could use 
> the radio buttons I guess and, first navigate by artist, genre or other 
> relevant fields.  However, with a large library that method is going to prove 
> extremely time-consuming.  In iTunes 10, the search box was, for me at least, 
> utterly invaluable.  But now it just grunts at me which, as Zack said 
> earlier, is probably VoiceOver doing something.   However, I guess I'm going 
> to have to b a little innovative.  I'll find a solution to the problem 
> somewhere, I'm going to have too.
> 
> Thanks for your input, it's appreciated.
> 
> Gordon

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Re: iTunes 11

[Sarah k Alawami]

Yeah my library is about 200 thousand songs big so searching it is a prin in 
the back side and iTunes freezes a lot and that's  with duplicates gone lol!

Take care.
On Jan 7, 2013, at 11:34 AM, Randy Stegall  wrote:

> Gordon, when I use the search field I hear the sound and can down arrow 
> through the selections that are announced by VO add to up next.  I haven't 
> tried choosing one to see what happens, but I think I can see where this 
> could be a problem with such a large library.
> 
> Randy
> On Jan 7, 2013, at 8:13 AM, Gordon Smith  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Anne
>> 
>> 
>> yes, this works well if you are searching for a song and you only want that 
>> one track.  However, our library is horrendously large, well over 50,000 
>> tracks I would guess.  Therefore, I need to find a way to move by album or 
>> something if the search box is going to be problematic.  Yes, one could use 
>> the radio buttons I guess and, first navigate by artist, genre or other 
>> relevant fields.  However, with a large library that method is going to 
>> prove extremely time-consuming.  In iTunes 10, the search box was, for me at 
>> least, utterly invaluable.  But now it just grunts at me which, as Zack said 
>> earlier, is probably VoiceOver doing something.   However, I guess I'm going 
>> to have to b a little innovative.  I'll find a solution to the problem 
>> somewhere, I'm going to have too.
>> 
>> Thanks for your input, it's appreciated.
>> 
>> Gordon
> 
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> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
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> unpredictable happen.
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> 
> 

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Re: iTunes 11

[Gordon Smith]

Hi

I think this is just one of those cases of culture shock.  Having used iTunes 
extensively for the last not far short of 8 years, and having seen the 
interface evolve into what was iTunes 10.7 which I regarded as excellent, I 
think the sudden and massive changes we're now faced with in the iTunes 11 
interface, it just totally threw me.  I'm slowly getting used to the interface 
and I have read with interest everybody's comments on list on this topic.  
Thank you all for your input, it has been appreciated.  I think I just need to 
continue to familiarise myself with the new layout.  But, I am encouraged by 
the fact that most others have managed to do so, by the sounds of things.  So, 
again, thanks all for your input.

Gordon

On 7 Jan 2013, at 19:25, Randy Stegall  wrote:

I use the songs radio button and have show column browser checked under view 
options.  Ypou can turn on the side bar just as you had it in iTunes 10 if you 
like.  I hope this is of some help.

Randy
On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:31 PM, Gordon Smith  wrote:

> Hi Zack
> 
> My negative comments reflect my disappointment, to be honest.  But let me be 
> absolutely clear that I am aware that people are trying to be helpful and 
> yes, it is appreciated.
> 
> OK, let me try to make this a little clear.  I am typing a search string into 
> the search bar.  Then, I try navigating the screen using the VoiceOver 
> navigation commands.  I just sen to get stuck in the same dialogue all the 
> time and nothing resembling my search appears to be displayed even though I 
> know for an absolute fact that it exists.
> 
> OK, let me be a little more concise.  In my library, I have several albums 
> named "Now That's What I Call Music", with different numbers for each album.  
> OK, so I make sure that the "Albums" radio button is highlighted.  Then, I 
> typ into the search bar:
> "Now That's What I Call Music", (without the quotes).  You may notice if you 
> have Braille that I am exact as far as case is concerned.  The albums exist 
> and sometimes, I get lucky and land on the album I want.  OK, so I hear 
> "Album Grid".  I try to interact with that "Album Grid", but I don't get the 
> track information.  Again, sometimes if I'm lucky I might land on the track 
> list.  But as yet, I cannot figure out what I do when this happens, it seems 
> to be random.
> 
> I'm sorry if I come across as negative.  I really don't mean to be negative.  
> You are aware, I believe, that I am very committed to Apple's products, and 
> I'm a staunch supporter of what Apple is doing.  You and I, Zack, have both 
> been part of other forums where this commitment is an essential.  But I'm not 
> going to say that everything is terrific if it isn't, just because it's 
> Apple.  And to be clear, that is in no way a personal comment aimed at 
> anybody.  I am merely making my position clear.  it may be, in the fullness 
> of time, that I grow accustomed to the new interface.  It may be that I even 
> come to like it.  That has happened before with other things and I'm sure it 
> will happen again.  So given the scenario I quoted above, where am I going 
> wrong?
> 
> Gordon

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Re: iTunes 11

[Gordon Smith]

Hi Randy

I remember you from elsewhere actually and I continue to inwardly smile each 
time I see a former colleague in that group appearing on the Mac side of 
things. :)

Anyway, back to the point.  it's really really tedious at times with a large 
library.  Whoever said that all artists used different titles for their tracks 
and, of course, there are always going to be duplicated phrases.  But I am sure 
I'll get used to it if I continue to play with it.  Our music library is 
massive, to be honest, and I do not relish the thought of having to totally 
rebuild it.

Thanks.

Gordon

On 7 Jan 2013, at 19:34, Randy Stegall  wrote:

Gordon, when I use the search field I hear the sound and can down arrow through 
the selections that are announced by VO add to up next.  I haven't tried 
choosing one to see what happens, but I think I can see where this could be a 
problem with such a large library.

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Re: iTunes 11

[Sarah k Alawami]

Are you in classic view? if not go to view and if it says show side bar hit 
enter on it. Now you should be able to do what you want to be  doing regarding 
playlists. 
On Jun 16, 2013, at 8:09 AM, Gordon Smith  wrote:

> Hi all
> 
> Maybe I'm doing something wrong here, but iTunes is causing me a great deal 
> of frustration of late.  I am trying to create playlists using contiguous 
> track listings of an album.  So, I do a search in my library for the album 
> title.  The title is displayed and I hit enter on the album to add it to the 
> up Next
> 
> In the last version of iTunes, the albums tracks would then be displayed.  
> But now, if I move the cursor down the list I get an album grid and it just 
> goes on to something else which is not what I searched for.  Where am I going 
> wrong herE?
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> <--- Gordon Smith --->
> 
> 
> 
> Telephone:
> 
> United Kingdom:  Free Phone:
> 0800 8620538
> 
> Mobile:
> +44 7907 823971
> 
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> +44 1642 688095
> 
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> +1 646 9151493
> Or:
> +1 209 436 9443
> 
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> +61 38 8205930
> Vic.  Australia
> +61 39 0284505
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
> --
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
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Re: iTunes 11

[Gordon Smith]

Hi Sarah

Actually I have the sidebar visible.  Lynne helped me out of the frustration I 
was in.  Although I'm still a little frustrated by certain aspects of iTunes 
11.  For instance, when I search for an album the only way I found to display 
its track info was to add it to Up Next.  Now, even that does not seem to work 
and I keep getting placed into an album grid which show all albums.  So I 
cannot easily select the tracks I want and then create a playlist based on the 
selection.

Kind regards

<--- Gordon Smith --->



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On 16 Jun 2013, at 18:52, Sarah k Alawami  wrote:

> Are you in classic view? if not go to view and if it says show side bar hit 
> enter on it. Now you should be able to do what you want to be  doing 
> regarding playlists. 
> On Jun 16, 2013, at 8:09 AM, Gordon Smith  wrote:
> 
>> Hi all
>> 
>> Maybe I'm doing something wrong here, but iTunes is causing me a great deal 
>> of frustration of late.  I am trying to create playlists using contiguous 
>> track listings of an album.  So, I do a search in my library for the album 
>> title.  The title is displayed and I hit enter on the album to add it to the 
>> up Next
>> 
>> In the last version of iTunes, the albums tracks would then be displayed.  
>> But now, if I move the cursor down the list I get an album grid and it just 
>> goes on to something else which is not what I searched for.  Where am I 
>> going wrong herE?
>> 
>> Kind regards
>> 
>> <--- Gordon Smith --->
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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>> +1 646 9151493
>> Or:
>> +1 209 436 9443
>> 
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>> +61 38 8205930
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>> +61 39 0284505
>> 
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Re: iTunes 11, thoughts?

[Chris Moore]

Overall, iTunes 11 is certainly no worse than iTunes 10 on the Mac when it 
comes to accessibility.  However, Apple could do more to improve Voiceover 
support (I can't comment on Windows, as not tested it there yet).

The first item/button Voiceover lands on is the rewind button, and there is a 
play button and a next button.  So we have a rewind and a next button, so some 
people might be confused by the lack of a previous button or a forward button.  
So perhaps the rewind and next buttons should be labelled as "previous/rewind 
button and a next/forward button.

The next item which puzzles me is the "iCloud button", what does this actually 
do? When pressing it with voiceover, it does not indicate if it is on or off or 
if anything has happened when it is pressed.

My next issue relates to the 7 radio buttons, the last radio button is read out 
as "Radio radio button 7 of 7".  Hearing the words Radio radio button is not 
exactly intuitive, and I am sure these buttons are actually tabs and not web 
page style radio buttons.  So would it not be better if Voiceover read out 
these 7 buttons as tabs? then the last tab could be read out as "Radio tab 7 of 
7". Note: the iTunes store uses tabs, so replacing radio buttons with tabs 
would give iTunes 11 a more consistent look and feel when it comes to 
navigating with a screen reader.

Finally there is a iTunes Store button, I think it would be more intuitive if 
the button was read out as "Go to iTunes Store button"  Then when you are in 
the iTunes Store, the button is read out as "Go back to Library button", 
instead of "Library menu button".  Calling this a menu button gives the 
impression a menu is about to appear if you press it.  

After opening the iTunes Store I am greeted with a back and next button for the 
store navigation, then there are a series of menu buttons (as voiceover 
describes them) which are My iTunes Account, iTunes Store home menu button, 
Music menu button, Films menu button etc.  Would it not be better to have these 
menu buttons labelled as tabs? 

I also think the home page of the iTunes store is a bit of a mess for screen 
reader users. For starters the HTML does not follow W3C web accessibility 
guidelines when it comes to heading structure.  For example there are heading 3 
items, and heading 5, but there are no heading 1 or 2.  It breaks accessibility 
when heading levels are skipped.

The document structure does not follow how it is laid out visually either.

The screen reader user hears the headings in the following sequence:

Heading 3 Music (this should be a heading 2, and there should be a heading 1 
prior to it labelled iTunes Store Home") 

Heading 3 Films (this should be a heading 2) 

TV programmes (this should be a heading 2) 

Heading 3 Apps (this should be a heading 2) 

Heading 3 Late Night Music on TV (should this not be listed under Music or 
under Feature?)

Heading 3 Genius Recommendations (should this not be a heading 2?) 

Heading 3 Books (should this not be a heading 2? 

Heading 3 Quick Links (should this not be a heading 2?)

Heading 3 Top Singles (should this not be a sub heading under Music? and the 
see all link appears to have gone) 

Heading 3 Top Albums  ((should this not be a sub heading under Music? and the 
see all link appears to have gone)

Heading 3 Top Films (should this not be listed under Films? see all has gone)

Heading 3 TOP TV (voiceover reads this as T O P instead of top, and should it 
not be listed as a sub heading under TV programmes? see all has gone)

Heading 3 Top Paid Apps (should this not be listed as a sub heading under Apps?)

Heading 3 Top Free Apps (should this not be a sub heading under Apps?)

Heading 3 Top Books (Should this not be listed as a sub heading under Books?)

The above is just a few examples, if you work your way through the iTunes 
store, you will find many other. I feel the order of the headings does not 
match how the layout works visually.

Chris

On 30 Nov 2012, at 03:50, amy gilbert  
wrote:

> hi all, i've got too many emails to check if there's already been a topic 
> posted on this, but what do you all think of itunes 11? it's going to take me 
> a while to get used to the new layout, but the layout is better, more 
> simplified, and it seems a bit more responsive or is that me? amy
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
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> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
> 
> or at the public Mail Archive:
> .
> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
> 
> 
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> worm-free!
> 
> Please remember to update your membership optio

Re: iTunes 11, thoughts?

[Dónal Fitzpatrick]

Morning Chris,

A superb summary. Have you ever thought of passing this very information on to 
Apple via the accessibility team?  It would probably be ignored but worth it 
nonetheless in my view.

Dónal
On 30 Nov 2012, at 09:38, Chris Moore  wrote:

> Overall, iTunes 11 is certainly no worse than iTunes 10 on the Mac when it 
> comes to accessibility.  However, Apple could do more to improve Voiceover 
> support (I can't comment on Windows, as not tested it there yet).
> 
> The first item/button Voiceover lands on is the rewind button, and there is a 
> play button and a next button.  So we have a rewind and a next button, so 
> some people might be confused by the lack of a previous button or a forward 
> button.  So perhaps the rewind and next buttons should be labelled as 
> "previous/rewind button and a next/forward button.
> 
> The next item which puzzles me is the "iCloud button", what does this 
> actually do? When pressing it with voiceover, it does not indicate if it is 
> on or off or if anything has happened when it is pressed.
> 
> My next issue relates to the 7 radio buttons, the last radio button is read 
> out as "Radio radio button 7 of 7".  Hearing the words Radio radio button is 
> not exactly intuitive, and I am sure these buttons are actually tabs and not 
> web page style radio buttons.  So would it not be better if Voiceover read 
> out these 7 buttons as tabs? then the last tab could be read out as "Radio 
> tab 7 of 7". Note: the iTunes store uses tabs, so replacing radio buttons 
> with tabs would give iTunes 11 a more consistent look and feel when it comes 
> to navigating with a screen reader.
> 
> Finally there is a iTunes Store button, I think it would be more intuitive if 
> the button was read out as "Go to iTunes Store button"  Then when you are in 
> the iTunes Store, the button is read out as "Go back to Library button", 
> instead of "Library menu button".  Calling this a menu button gives the 
> impression a menu is about to appear if you press it.  
> 
> After opening the iTunes Store I am greeted with a back and next button for 
> the store navigation, then there are a series of menu buttons (as voiceover 
> describes them) which are My iTunes Account, iTunes Store home menu button, 
> Music menu button, Films menu button etc.  Would it not be better to have 
> these menu buttons labelled as tabs? 
> 
> I also think the home page of the iTunes store is a bit of a mess for screen 
> reader users. For starters the HTML does not follow W3C web accessibility 
> guidelines when it comes to heading structure.  For example there are heading 
> 3 items, and heading 5, but there are no heading 1 or 2.  It breaks 
> accessibility when heading levels are skipped.
> 
> The document structure does not follow how it is laid out visually either.
> 
> The screen reader user hears the headings in the following sequence:
> 
> Heading 3 Music (this should be a heading 2, and there should be a heading 1 
> prior to it labelled iTunes Store Home") 
> 
> Heading 3 Films (this should be a heading 2) 
> 
> TV programmes (this should be a heading 2) 
> 
> Heading 3 Apps (this should be a heading 2) 
> 
> Heading 3 Late Night Music on TV (should this not be listed under Music or 
> under Feature?)
> 
> Heading 3 Genius Recommendations (should this not be a heading 2?) 
> 
> Heading 3 Books (should this not be a heading 2? 
> 
> Heading 3 Quick Links (should this not be a heading 2?)
> 
> Heading 3 Top Singles (should this not be a sub heading under Music? and the 
> see all link appears to have gone) 
> 
> Heading 3 Top Albums  ((should this not be a sub heading under Music? and the 
> see all link appears to have gone)
> 
> Heading 3 Top Films (should this not be listed under Films? see all has gone)
> 
> Heading 3 TOP TV (voiceover reads this as T O P instead of top, and should it 
> not be listed as a sub heading under TV programmes? see all has gone)
> 
> Heading 3 Top Paid Apps (should this not be listed as a sub heading under 
> Apps?)
> 
> Heading 3 Top Free Apps (should this not be a sub heading under Apps?)
> 
> Heading 3 Top Books (Should this not be listed as a sub heading under Books?)
> 
> The above is just a few examples, if you work your way through the iTunes 
> store, you will find many other. I feel the order of the headings does not 
> match how the layout works visually.
> 
> Chris
> 
> On 30 Nov 2012, at 03:50, amy gilbert  
> wrote:
> 
>> hi all, i've got too many emails to check if there's already been a topic 
>> posted on this, but what do you all think of itunes 11? it's going to take 
>> me a while to get used to the new layout, but the layout is better, more 
>> simplified, and it seems a bit more responsive or is that me? amy
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
>> either the list's

Re: iTunes 11, thoughts?

[Chris Moore]

Yup,

Have done, and went into more detail  fore them.  I have also sent it via 
iTunes Feedback too.

So maybe we'll see an improvement in version 12!

Chris 
On 30 Nov 2012, at 10:44, Dónal Fitzpatrick  wrote:

> Morning Chris,
> 
> A superb summary. Have you ever thought of passing this very information on 
> to Apple via the accessibility team?  It would probably be ignored but worth 
> it nonetheless in my view.
> 
> Dónal
> On 30 Nov 2012, at 09:38, Chris Moore  wrote:
> 
>> Overall, iTunes 11 is certainly no worse than iTunes 10 on the Mac when it 
>> comes to accessibility.  However, Apple could do more to improve Voiceover 
>> support (I can't comment on Windows, as not tested it there yet).
>> 
>> The first item/button Voiceover lands on is the rewind button, and there is 
>> a play button and a next button.  So we have a rewind and a next button, so 
>> some people might be confused by the lack of a previous button or a forward 
>> button.  So perhaps the rewind and next buttons should be labelled as 
>> "previous/rewind button and a next/forward button.
>> 
>> The next item which puzzles me is the "iCloud button", what does this 
>> actually do? When pressing it with voiceover, it does not indicate if it is 
>> on or off or if anything has happened when it is pressed.
>> 
>> My next issue relates to the 7 radio buttons, the last radio button is read 
>> out as "Radio radio button 7 of 7".  Hearing the words Radio radio button is 
>> not exactly intuitive, and I am sure these buttons are actually tabs and not 
>> web page style radio buttons.  So would it not be better if Voiceover read 
>> out these 7 buttons as tabs? then the last tab could be read out as "Radio 
>> tab 7 of 7". Note: the iTunes store uses tabs, so replacing radio buttons 
>> with tabs would give iTunes 11 a more consistent look and feel when it comes 
>> to navigating with a screen reader.
>> 
>> Finally there is a iTunes Store button, I think it would be more intuitive 
>> if the button was read out as "Go to iTunes Store button"  Then when you are 
>> in the iTunes Store, the button is read out as "Go back to Library button", 
>> instead of "Library menu button".  Calling this a menu button gives the 
>> impression a menu is about to appear if you press it.  
>> 
>> After opening the iTunes Store I am greeted with a back and next button for 
>> the store navigation, then there are a series of menu buttons (as voiceover 
>> describes them) which are My iTunes Account, iTunes Store home menu button, 
>> Music menu button, Films menu button etc.  Would it not be better to have 
>> these menu buttons labelled as tabs? 
>> 
>> I also think the home page of the iTunes store is a bit of a mess for screen 
>> reader users. For starters the HTML does not follow W3C web accessibility 
>> guidelines when it comes to heading structure.  For example there are 
>> heading 3 items, and heading 5, but there are no heading 1 or 2.  It breaks 
>> accessibility when heading levels are skipped.
>> 
>> The document structure does not follow how it is laid out visually either.
>> 
>> The screen reader user hears the headings in the following sequence:
>> 
>> Heading 3 Music (this should be a heading 2, and there should be a heading 1 
>> prior to it labelled iTunes Store Home") 
>> 
>> Heading 3 Films (this should be a heading 2) 
>> 
>> TV programmes (this should be a heading 2) 
>> 
>> Heading 3 Apps (this should be a heading 2) 
>> 
>> Heading 3 Late Night Music on TV (should this not be listed under Music or 
>> under Feature?)
>> 
>> Heading 3 Genius Recommendations (should this not be a heading 2?) 
>> 
>> Heading 3 Books (should this not be a heading 2? 
>> 
>> Heading 3 Quick Links (should this not be a heading 2?)
>> 
>> Heading 3 Top Singles (should this not be a sub heading under Music? and the 
>> see all link appears to have gone) 
>> 
>> Heading 3 Top Albums  ((should this not be a sub heading under Music? and 
>> the see all link appears to have gone)
>> 
>> Heading 3 Top Films (should this not be listed under Films? see all has gone)
>> 
>> Heading 3 TOP TV (voiceover reads this as T O P instead of top, and should 
>> it not be listed as a sub heading under TV programmes? see all has gone)
>> 
>> Heading 3 Top Paid Apps (should this not be listed as a sub heading under 
>> Apps?)
>> 
>> Heading 3 Top Free Apps (should this not be a sub heading under Apps?)
>> 
>> Heading 3 Top Books (Should this not be listed as a sub heading under Books?)
>> 
>> The above is just a few examples, if you work your way through the iTunes 
>> store, you will find many other. I feel the order of the headings does not 
>> match how the layout works visually.
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> On 30 Nov 2012, at 03:50, amy gilbert  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> hi all, i've got too many emails to check if there's already been a topic 
>>> posted on this, but what do you all think of itunes 11? it's going to take 
>>> me a while to get used to the new layout, but the layout is b

Re: iTunes 11, thoughts?

[Dónal Fitzpatrick]

Delighted to hear that, it's a super summary.
On 30 Nov 2012, at 10:46, Chris Moore  wrote:

> Yup,
> 
> Have done, and went into more detail  fore them.  I have also sent it via 
> iTunes Feedback too.
> 
> So maybe we'll see an improvement in version 12!
> 
> Chris 
> On 30 Nov 2012, at 10:44, Dónal Fitzpatrick  wrote:
> 
>> Morning Chris,
>> 
>> A superb summary. Have you ever thought of passing this very information on 
>> to Apple via the accessibility team?  It would probably be ignored but worth 
>> it nonetheless in my view.
>> 
>> Dónal
>> On 30 Nov 2012, at 09:38, Chris Moore  wrote:
>> 
>>> Overall, iTunes 11 is certainly no worse than iTunes 10 on the Mac when it 
>>> comes to accessibility.  However, Apple could do more to improve Voiceover 
>>> support (I can't comment on Windows, as not tested it there yet).
>>> 
>>> The first item/button Voiceover lands on is the rewind button, and there is 
>>> a play button and a next button.  So we have a rewind and a next button, so 
>>> some people might be confused by the lack of a previous button or a forward 
>>> button.  So perhaps the rewind and next buttons should be labelled as 
>>> "previous/rewind button and a next/forward button.
>>> 
>>> The next item which puzzles me is the "iCloud button", what does this 
>>> actually do? When pressing it with voiceover, it does not indicate if it is 
>>> on or off or if anything has happened when it is pressed.
>>> 
>>> My next issue relates to the 7 radio buttons, the last radio button is read 
>>> out as "Radio radio button 7 of 7".  Hearing the words Radio radio button 
>>> is not exactly intuitive, and I am sure these buttons are actually tabs and 
>>> not web page style radio buttons.  So would it not be better if Voiceover 
>>> read out these 7 buttons as tabs? then the last tab could be read out as 
>>> "Radio tab 7 of 7". Note: the iTunes store uses tabs, so replacing radio 
>>> buttons with tabs would give iTunes 11 a more consistent look and feel when 
>>> it comes to navigating with a screen reader.
>>> 
>>> Finally there is a iTunes Store button, I think it would be more intuitive 
>>> if the button was read out as "Go to iTunes Store button"  Then when you 
>>> are in the iTunes Store, the button is read out as "Go back to Library 
>>> button", instead of "Library menu button".  Calling this a menu button 
>>> gives the impression a menu is about to appear if you press it.  
>>> 
>>> After opening the iTunes Store I am greeted with a back and next button for 
>>> the store navigation, then there are a series of menu buttons (as voiceover 
>>> describes them) which are My iTunes Account, iTunes Store home menu button, 
>>> Music menu button, Films menu button etc.  Would it not be better to have 
>>> these menu buttons labelled as tabs? 
>>> 
>>> I also think the home page of the iTunes store is a bit of a mess for 
>>> screen reader users. For starters the HTML does not follow W3C web 
>>> accessibility guidelines when it comes to heading structure.  For example 
>>> there are heading 3 items, and heading 5, but there are no heading 1 or 2.  
>>> It breaks accessibility when heading levels are skipped.
>>> 
>>> The document structure does not follow how it is laid out visually either.
>>> 
>>> The screen reader user hears the headings in the following sequence:
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 Music (this should be a heading 2, and there should be a heading 
>>> 1 prior to it labelled iTunes Store Home") 
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 Films (this should be a heading 2) 
>>> 
>>> TV programmes (this should be a heading 2) 
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 Apps (this should be a heading 2) 
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 Late Night Music on TV (should this not be listed under Music or 
>>> under Feature?)
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 Genius Recommendations (should this not be a heading 2?) 
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 Books (should this not be a heading 2? 
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 Quick Links (should this not be a heading 2?)
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 Top Singles (should this not be a sub heading under Music? and 
>>> the see all link appears to have gone) 
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 Top Albums  ((should this not be a sub heading under Music? and 
>>> the see all link appears to have gone)
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 Top Films (should this not be listed under Films? see all has 
>>> gone)
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 TOP TV (voiceover reads this as T O P instead of top, and should 
>>> it not be listed as a sub heading under TV programmes? see all has gone)
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 Top Paid Apps (should this not be listed as a sub heading under 
>>> Apps?)
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 Top Free Apps (should this not be a sub heading under Apps?)
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 Top Books (Should this not be listed as a sub heading under 
>>> Books?)
>>> 
>>> The above is just a few examples, if you work your way through the iTunes 
>>> store, you will find many other. I feel the order of the headings does not 
>>> match how the layout works visually.
>>> 
>>> Chris
>>> 
>>> On 30 Nov 2012, at 03:50, amy gilbert  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>

Re: iTunes 11, thoughts?

[Ian McNamara]

Hi, have not got time to have a massive play with it at the moment as i'm about 
to go to my flute lesson then need to get ready for going away this afternoon. 
It does seem a simpler layout and more responsive but I think chris points are 
very valid and i'm glad you've sent the feedback. I did like the source table 
and i'll be interested too see how it acts when I connect my I device up. When 
I return on monday I will explore iTunes 11 a bit more.

Ian McNamara
<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net

You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
either the list's own dedicated web archive:

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.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:


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worm-free!

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list website at:

Re: iTunes 11, thoughts?

[amy gilbert]

hi chris, another annoying thing i've found in the store is that you have to 
interact with a song's group to play a preview of the song, where as before the 
button was visible.
On 30 Nov 2012, at 09:38, Chris Moore  wrote:

> Overall, iTunes 11 is certainly no worse than iTunes 10 on the Mac when it 
> comes to accessibility.  However, Apple could do more to improve Voiceover 
> support (I can't comment on Windows, as not tested it there yet).
> 
> The first item/button Voiceover lands on is the rewind button, and there is a 
> play button and a next button.  So we have a rewind and a next button, so 
> some people might be confused by the lack of a previous button or a forward 
> button.  So perhaps the rewind and next buttons should be labelled as 
> "previous/rewind button and a next/forward button.
> 
> The next item which puzzles me is the "iCloud button", what does this 
> actually do? When pressing it with voiceover, it does not indicate if it is 
> on or off or if anything has happened when it is pressed.
> 
> My next issue relates to the 7 radio buttons, the last radio button is read 
> out as "Radio radio button 7 of 7".  Hearing the words Radio radio button is 
> not exactly intuitive, and I am sure these buttons are actually tabs and not 
> web page style radio buttons.  So would it not be better if Voiceover read 
> out these 7 buttons as tabs? then the last tab could be read out as "Radio 
> tab 7 of 7". Note: the iTunes store uses tabs, so replacing radio buttons 
> with tabs would give iTunes 11 a more consistent look and feel when it comes 
> to navigating with a screen reader.
> 
> Finally there is a iTunes Store button, I think it would be more intuitive if 
> the button was read out as "Go to iTunes Store button"  Then when you are in 
> the iTunes Store, the button is read out as "Go back to Library button", 
> instead of "Library menu button".  Calling this a menu button gives the 
> impression a menu is about to appear if you press it.  
> 
> After opening the iTunes Store I am greeted with a back and next button for 
> the store navigation, then there are a series of menu buttons (as voiceover 
> describes them) which are My iTunes Account, iTunes Store home menu button, 
> Music menu button, Films menu button etc.  Would it not be better to have 
> these menu buttons labelled as tabs? 
> 
> I also think the home page of the iTunes store is a bit of a mess for screen 
> reader users. For starters the HTML does not follow W3C web accessibility 
> guidelines when it comes to heading structure.  For example there are heading 
> 3 items, and heading 5, but there are no heading 1 or 2.  It breaks 
> accessibility when heading levels are skipped.
> 
> The document structure does not follow how it is laid out visually either.
> 
> The screen reader user hears the headings in the following sequence:
> 
> Heading 3 Music (this should be a heading 2, and there should be a heading 1 
> prior to it labelled iTunes Store Home") 
> 
> Heading 3 Films (this should be a heading 2) 
> 
> TV programmes (this should be a heading 2) 
> 
> Heading 3 Apps (this should be a heading 2) 
> 
> Heading 3 Late Night Music on TV (should this not be listed under Music or 
> under Feature?)
> 
> Heading 3 Genius Recommendations (should this not be a heading 2?) 
> 
> Heading 3 Books (should this not be a heading 2? 
> 
> Heading 3 Quick Links (should this not be a heading 2?)
> 
> Heading 3 Top Singles (should this not be a sub heading under Music? and the 
> see all link appears to have gone) 
> 
> Heading 3 Top Albums  ((should this not be a sub heading under Music? and the 
> see all link appears to have gone)
> 
> Heading 3 Top Films (should this not be listed under Films? see all has gone)
> 
> Heading 3 TOP TV (voiceover reads this as T O P instead of top, and should it 
> not be listed as a sub heading under TV programmes? see all has gone)
> 
> Heading 3 Top Paid Apps (should this not be listed as a sub heading under 
> Apps?)
> 
> Heading 3 Top Free Apps (should this not be a sub heading under Apps?)
> 
> Heading 3 Top Books (Should this not be listed as a sub heading under Books?)
> 
> The above is just a few examples, if you work your way through the iTunes 
> store, you will find many other. I feel the order of the headings does not 
> match how the layout works visually.
> 
> Chris
> 
> On 30 Nov 2012, at 03:50, amy gilbert  
> wrote:
> 
>> hi all, i've got too many emails to check if there's already been a topic 
>> posted on this, but what do you all think of itunes 11? it's going to take 
>> me a while to get used to the new layout, but the layout is better, more 
>> simplified, and it seems a bit more responsive or is that me? amy
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
>> either the list's own dedicated web archive

Re: iTunes 11, thoughts?

[amy gilbert]

hi, i've contacted the accessibility team before now and they've never got back 
to me, i wish apple had an accessibility team here in the UK
On 30 Nov 2012, at 10:44, Dónal Fitzpatrick  wrote:

> Morning Chris,
> 
> A superb summary. Have you ever thought of passing this very information on 
> to Apple via the accessibility team?  It would probably be ignored but worth 
> it nonetheless in my view.
> 
> Dónal
> On 30 Nov 2012, at 09:38, Chris Moore  wrote:
> 
>> Overall, iTunes 11 is certainly no worse than iTunes 10 on the Mac when it 
>> comes to accessibility.  However, Apple could do more to improve Voiceover 
>> support (I can't comment on Windows, as not tested it there yet).
>> 
>> The first item/button Voiceover lands on is the rewind button, and there is 
>> a play button and a next button.  So we have a rewind and a next button, so 
>> some people might be confused by the lack of a previous button or a forward 
>> button.  So perhaps the rewind and next buttons should be labelled as 
>> "previous/rewind button and a next/forward button.
>> 
>> The next item which puzzles me is the "iCloud button", what does this 
>> actually do? When pressing it with voiceover, it does not indicate if it is 
>> on or off or if anything has happened when it is pressed.
>> 
>> My next issue relates to the 7 radio buttons, the last radio button is read 
>> out as "Radio radio button 7 of 7".  Hearing the words Radio radio button is 
>> not exactly intuitive, and I am sure these buttons are actually tabs and not 
>> web page style radio buttons.  So would it not be better if Voiceover read 
>> out these 7 buttons as tabs? then the last tab could be read out as "Radio 
>> tab 7 of 7". Note: the iTunes store uses tabs, so replacing radio buttons 
>> with tabs would give iTunes 11 a more consistent look and feel when it comes 
>> to navigating with a screen reader.
>> 
>> Finally there is a iTunes Store button, I think it would be more intuitive 
>> if the button was read out as "Go to iTunes Store button"  Then when you are 
>> in the iTunes Store, the button is read out as "Go back to Library button", 
>> instead of "Library menu button".  Calling this a menu button gives the 
>> impression a menu is about to appear if you press it.  
>> 
>> After opening the iTunes Store I am greeted with a back and next button for 
>> the store navigation, then there are a series of menu buttons (as voiceover 
>> describes them) which are My iTunes Account, iTunes Store home menu button, 
>> Music menu button, Films menu button etc.  Would it not be better to have 
>> these menu buttons labelled as tabs? 
>> 
>> I also think the home page of the iTunes store is a bit of a mess for screen 
>> reader users. For starters the HTML does not follow W3C web accessibility 
>> guidelines when it comes to heading structure.  For example there are 
>> heading 3 items, and heading 5, but there are no heading 1 or 2.  It breaks 
>> accessibility when heading levels are skipped.
>> 
>> The document structure does not follow how it is laid out visually either.
>> 
>> The screen reader user hears the headings in the following sequence:
>> 
>> Heading 3 Music (this should be a heading 2, and there should be a heading 1 
>> prior to it labelled iTunes Store Home") 
>> 
>> Heading 3 Films (this should be a heading 2) 
>> 
>> TV programmes (this should be a heading 2) 
>> 
>> Heading 3 Apps (this should be a heading 2) 
>> 
>> Heading 3 Late Night Music on TV (should this not be listed under Music or 
>> under Feature?)
>> 
>> Heading 3 Genius Recommendations (should this not be a heading 2?) 
>> 
>> Heading 3 Books (should this not be a heading 2? 
>> 
>> Heading 3 Quick Links (should this not be a heading 2?)
>> 
>> Heading 3 Top Singles (should this not be a sub heading under Music? and the 
>> see all link appears to have gone) 
>> 
>> Heading 3 Top Albums  ((should this not be a sub heading under Music? and 
>> the see all link appears to have gone)
>> 
>> Heading 3 Top Films (should this not be listed under Films? see all has gone)
>> 
>> Heading 3 TOP TV (voiceover reads this as T O P instead of top, and should 
>> it not be listed as a sub heading under TV programmes? see all has gone)
>> 
>> Heading 3 Top Paid Apps (should this not be listed as a sub heading under 
>> Apps?)
>> 
>> Heading 3 Top Free Apps (should this not be a sub heading under Apps?)
>> 
>> Heading 3 Top Books (Should this not be listed as a sub heading under Books?)
>> 
>> The above is just a few examples, if you work your way through the iTunes 
>> store, you will find many other. I feel the order of the headings does not 
>> match how the layout works visually.
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> On 30 Nov 2012, at 03:50, amy gilbert  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> hi all, i've got too many emails to check if there's already been a topic 
>>> posted on this, but what do you all think of itunes 11? it's going to take 
>>> me a while to get used to the new layout, but the layout is better, more 
>>> s

Re: iTunes 11, thoughts?

[william lomas]

the menus in the store though are for newest items etc 
going to look at iutnes 11 now

On 30 Nov 2012, at 12:10, amy gilbert  
wrote:

> hi, i've contacted the accessibility team before now and they've never got 
> back to me, i wish apple had an accessibility team here in the UK
> On 30 Nov 2012, at 10:44, Dónal Fitzpatrick  wrote:
> 
>> Morning Chris,
>> 
>> A superb summary. Have you ever thought of passing this very information on 
>> to Apple via the accessibility team?  It would probably be ignored but worth 
>> it nonetheless in my view.
>> 
>> Dónal
>> On 30 Nov 2012, at 09:38, Chris Moore  wrote:
>> 
>>> Overall, iTunes 11 is certainly no worse than iTunes 10 on the Mac when it 
>>> comes to accessibility.  However, Apple could do more to improve Voiceover 
>>> support (I can't comment on Windows, as not tested it there yet).
>>> 
>>> The first item/button Voiceover lands on is the rewind button, and there is 
>>> a play button and a next button.  So we have a rewind and a next button, so 
>>> some people might be confused by the lack of a previous button or a forward 
>>> button.  So perhaps the rewind and next buttons should be labelled as 
>>> "previous/rewind button and a next/forward button.
>>> 
>>> The next item which puzzles me is the "iCloud button", what does this 
>>> actually do? When pressing it with voiceover, it does not indicate if it is 
>>> on or off or if anything has happened when it is pressed.
>>> 
>>> My next issue relates to the 7 radio buttons, the last radio button is read 
>>> out as "Radio radio button 7 of 7".  Hearing the words Radio radio button 
>>> is not exactly intuitive, and I am sure these buttons are actually tabs and 
>>> not web page style radio buttons.  So would it not be better if Voiceover 
>>> read out these 7 buttons as tabs? then the last tab could be read out as 
>>> "Radio tab 7 of 7". Note: the iTunes store uses tabs, so replacing radio 
>>> buttons with tabs would give iTunes 11 a more consistent look and feel when 
>>> it comes to navigating with a screen reader.
>>> 
>>> Finally there is a iTunes Store button, I think it would be more intuitive 
>>> if the button was read out as "Go to iTunes Store button"  Then when you 
>>> are in the iTunes Store, the button is read out as "Go back to Library 
>>> button", instead of "Library menu button".  Calling this a menu button 
>>> gives the impression a menu is about to appear if you press it.  
>>> 
>>> After opening the iTunes Store I am greeted with a back and next button for 
>>> the store navigation, then there are a series of menu buttons (as voiceover 
>>> describes them) which are My iTunes Account, iTunes Store home menu button, 
>>> Music menu button, Films menu button etc.  Would it not be better to have 
>>> these menu buttons labelled as tabs? 
>>> 
>>> I also think the home page of the iTunes store is a bit of a mess for 
>>> screen reader users. For starters the HTML does not follow W3C web 
>>> accessibility guidelines when it comes to heading structure.  For example 
>>> there are heading 3 items, and heading 5, but there are no heading 1 or 2.  
>>> It breaks accessibility when heading levels are skipped.
>>> 
>>> The document structure does not follow how it is laid out visually either.
>>> 
>>> The screen reader user hears the headings in the following sequence:
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 Music (this should be a heading 2, and there should be a heading 
>>> 1 prior to it labelled iTunes Store Home") 
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 Films (this should be a heading 2) 
>>> 
>>> TV programmes (this should be a heading 2) 
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 Apps (this should be a heading 2) 
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 Late Night Music on TV (should this not be listed under Music or 
>>> under Feature?)
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 Genius Recommendations (should this not be a heading 2?) 
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 Books (should this not be a heading 2? 
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 Quick Links (should this not be a heading 2?)
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 Top Singles (should this not be a sub heading under Music? and 
>>> the see all link appears to have gone) 
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 Top Albums  ((should this not be a sub heading under Music? and 
>>> the see all link appears to have gone)
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 Top Films (should this not be listed under Films? see all has 
>>> gone)
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 TOP TV (voiceover reads this as T O P instead of top, and should 
>>> it not be listed as a sub heading under TV programmes? see all has gone)
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 Top Paid Apps (should this not be listed as a sub heading under 
>>> Apps?)
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 Top Free Apps (should this not be a sub heading under Apps?)
>>> 
>>> Heading 3 Top Books (Should this not be listed as a sub heading under 
>>> Books?)
>>> 
>>> The above is just a few examples, if you work your way through the iTunes 
>>> store, you will find many other. I feel the order of the headings does not 
>>> match how the layout works visually.
>>> 
>>> Chris
>>> 
>>> On 30 Nov 2012, at 03:50, amy gilbert  
>>> w

Re: iTunes 11, thoughts?

[Sarah Alawami]

I was a bit confused by the interface but I started using with in about 10 to 
30 seconds of realizing what twas up. Expect a podcast when  and if my site 
comes back up. I won't go in to what happened but I'm trying desperately to get 
the podcast up again. but over all I love the new interface. It reminds me of 
an app I'v eased before but I cannot put my finger on it at the moment.

Be blessed.
On Nov 30, 2012, at 4:22 AM, william lomas  wrote:

> the menus in the store though are for newest items etc 
> going to look at iutnes 11 now
> 
> On 30 Nov 2012, at 12:10, amy gilbert  
> wrote:
> 
>> hi, i've contacted the accessibility team before now and they've never got 
>> back to me, i wish apple had an accessibility team here in the UK
>> On 30 Nov 2012, at 10:44, Dónal Fitzpatrick  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Morning Chris,
>>> 
>>> A superb summary. Have you ever thought of passing this very information on 
>>> to Apple via the accessibility team?  It would probably be ignored but 
>>> worth it nonetheless in my view.
>>> 
>>> Dónal
>>> On 30 Nov 2012, at 09:38, Chris Moore  wrote:
>>> 
 Overall, iTunes 11 is certainly no worse than iTunes 10 on the Mac when it 
 comes to accessibility.  However, Apple could do more to improve Voiceover 
 support (I can't comment on Windows, as not tested it there yet).
 
 The first item/button Voiceover lands on is the rewind button, and there 
 is a play button and a next button.  So we have a rewind and a next 
 button, so some people might be confused by the lack of a previous button 
 or a forward button.  So perhaps the rewind and next buttons should be 
 labelled as "previous/rewind button and a next/forward button.
 
 The next item which puzzles me is the "iCloud button", what does this 
 actually do? When pressing it with voiceover, it does not indicate if it 
 is on or off or if anything has happened when it is pressed.
 
 My next issue relates to the 7 radio buttons, the last radio button is 
 read out as "Radio radio button 7 of 7".  Hearing the words Radio radio 
 button is not exactly intuitive, and I am sure these buttons are actually 
 tabs and not web page style radio buttons.  So would it not be better if 
 Voiceover read out these 7 buttons as tabs? then the last tab could be 
 read out as "Radio tab 7 of 7". Note: the iTunes store uses tabs, so 
 replacing radio buttons with tabs would give iTunes 11 a more consistent 
 look and feel when it comes to navigating with a screen reader.
 
 Finally there is a iTunes Store button, I think it would be more intuitive 
 if the button was read out as "Go to iTunes Store button"  Then when you 
 are in the iTunes Store, the button is read out as "Go back to Library 
 button", instead of "Library menu button".  Calling this a menu button 
 gives the impression a menu is about to appear if you press it.  
 
 After opening the iTunes Store I am greeted with a back and next button 
 for the store navigation, then there are a series of menu buttons (as 
 voiceover describes them) which are My iTunes Account, iTunes Store home 
 menu button, Music menu button, Films menu button etc.  Would it not be 
 better to have these menu buttons labelled as tabs? 
 
 I also think the home page of the iTunes store is a bit of a mess for 
 screen reader users. For starters the HTML does not follow W3C web 
 accessibility guidelines when it comes to heading structure.  For example 
 there are heading 3 items, and heading 5, but there are no heading 1 or 2. 
  It breaks accessibility when heading levels are skipped.
 
 The document structure does not follow how it is laid out visually either.
 
 The screen reader user hears the headings in the following sequence:
 
 Heading 3 Music (this should be a heading 2, and there should be a heading 
 1 prior to it labelled iTunes Store Home") 
 
 Heading 3 Films (this should be a heading 2) 
 
 TV programmes (this should be a heading 2) 
 
 Heading 3 Apps (this should be a heading 2) 
 
 Heading 3 Late Night Music on TV (should this not be listed under Music or 
 under Feature?)
 
 Heading 3 Genius Recommendations (should this not be a heading 2?) 
 
 Heading 3 Books (should this not be a heading 2? 
 
 Heading 3 Quick Links (should this not be a heading 2?)
 
 Heading 3 Top Singles (should this not be a sub heading under Music? and 
 the see all link appears to have gone) 
 
 Heading 3 Top Albums  ((should this not be a sub heading under Music? and 
 the see all link appears to have gone)
 
 Heading 3 Top Films (should this not be listed under Films? see all has 
 gone)
 
 Heading 3 TOP TV (voiceover reads this as T O P instead of top, and should 
 it not be listed as a sub heading under TV programmes? see

Re: iTunes 11, thoughts?

[Mickey Quenzer]

Hello Chris :
I agree with a lot of these recommendations it would  be a good idea for you to 
send them to the  Apple accessibility team and see what they have to say thanks 
very much for taking the time to look at them.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 30, 2012, at 1:38 AM, Chris Moore  wrote:

> Overall, iTunes 11 is certainly no worse than iTunes 10 on the Mac when it 
> comes to accessibility.  However, Apple could do more to improve Voiceover 
> support (I can't comment on Windows, as not tested it there yet).
> 
> The first item/button Voiceover lands on is the rewind button, and there is a 
> play button and a next button.  So we have a rewind and a next button, so 
> some people might be confused by the lack of a previous button or a forward 
> button.  So perhaps the rewind and next buttons should be labelled as 
> "previous/rewind button and a next/forward button.
> 
> The next item which puzzles me is the "iCloud button", what does this 
> actually do? When pressing it with voiceover, it does not indicate if it is 
> on or off or if anything has happened when it is pressed.
> 
> My next issue relates to the 7 radio buttons, the last radio button is read 
> out as "Radio radio button 7 of 7".  Hearing the words Radio radio button is 
> not exactly intuitive, and I am sure these buttons are actually tabs and not 
> web page style radio buttons.  So would it not be better if Voiceover read 
> out these 7 buttons as tabs? then the last tab could be read out as "Radio 
> tab 7 of 7". Note: the iTunes store uses tabs, so replacing radio buttons 
> with tabs would give iTunes 11 a more consistent look and feel when it comes 
> to navigating with a screen reader.
> 
> Finally there is a iTunes Store button, I think it would be more intuitive if 
> the button was read out as "Go to iTunes Store button"  Then when you are in 
> the iTunes Store, the button is read out as "Go back to Library button", 
> instead of "Library menu button".  Calling this a menu button gives the 
> impression a menu is about to appear if you press it.  
> 
> After opening the iTunes Store I am greeted with a back and next button for 
> the store navigation, then there are a series of menu buttons (as voiceover 
> describes them) which are My iTunes Account, iTunes Store home menu button, 
> Music menu button, Films menu button etc.  Would it not be better to have 
> these menu buttons labelled as tabs? 
> 
> I also think the home page of the iTunes store is a bit of a mess for screen 
> reader users. For starters the HTML does not follow W3C web accessibility 
> guidelines when it comes to heading structure.  For example there are heading 
> 3 items, and heading 5, but there are no heading 1 or 2.  It breaks 
> accessibility when heading levels are skipped.
> 
> The document structure does not follow how it is laid out visually either.
> 
> The screen reader user hears the headings in the following sequence:
> 
> Heading 3 Music (this should be a heading 2, and there should be a heading 1 
> prior to it labelled iTunes Store Home") 
> 
> Heading 3 Films (this should be a heading 2) 
> 
> TV programmes (this should be a heading 2) 
> 
> Heading 3 Apps (this should be a heading 2) 
> 
> Heading 3 Late Night Music on TV (should this not be listed under Music or 
> under Feature?)
> 
> Heading 3 Genius Recommendations (should this not be a heading 2?) 
> 
> Heading 3 Books (should this not be a heading 2? 
> 
> Heading 3 Quick Links (should this not be a heading 2?)
> 
> Heading 3 Top Singles (should this not be a sub heading under Music? and the 
> see all link appears to have gone) 
> 
> Heading 3 Top Albums  ((should this not be a sub heading under Music? and the 
> see all link appears to have gone)
> 
> Heading 3 Top Films (should this not be listed under Films? see all has gone)
> 
> Heading 3 TOP TV (voiceover reads this as T O P instead of top, and should it 
> not be listed as a sub heading under TV programmes? see all has gone)
> 
> Heading 3 Top Paid Apps (should this not be listed as a sub heading under 
> Apps?)
> 
> Heading 3 Top Free Apps (should this not be a sub heading under Apps?)
> 
> Heading 3 Top Books (Should this not be listed as a sub heading under Books?)
> 
> The above is just a few examples, if you work your way through the iTunes 
> store, you will find many other. I feel the order of the headings does not 
> match how the layout works visually.
> 
> Chris
> 
> On 30 Nov 2012, at 03:50, amy gilbert  
> wrote:
> 
>> hi all, i've got too many emails to check if there's already been a topic 
>> posted on this, but what do you all think of itunes 11? it's going to take 
>> me a while to get used to the new layout, but the layout is better, more 
>> simplified, and it seems a bit more responsive or is that me? amy
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto th

Re: iTunes 11 question.

[Danny Noonan]

Well, turns out as far as I can research that there is no way to stop files 
played in iTunes from being added to the library so feather research shows that 
either QuickTime or VLC still work with the apple remote so I'll set my default 
media player to use either of them for media types I use and don't want 
directly added to iTunes.

Danny:

On 29/12/2012, at 11:15 AM, Danny Noonan  wrote:

> I thought there used to be an option to stop iTunes from adding every track 
> you played in it to the library but I can't seem to find it any more if it 
> existed. I want to only add tracks I specifically import to iTunes as I 
> listen to lots of things that I don't want in my regular library.
> 
> Any help appreciated.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Danny:
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
> 
> or at the public Mail Archive:
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Re: iTunes 11 question.

[cait furness]

it used to be under the advanced tab in preferences.
Caitlyn

On 2012-12-28, at 7:15 PM, Danny Noonan  wrote:

> I thought there used to be an option to stop iTunes from adding every track 
> you played in it to the library but I can't seem to find it any more if it 
> existed. I want to only add tracks I specifically import to iTunes as I 
> listen to lots of things that I don't want in my regular library.
> 
> Any help appreciated.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Danny:
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
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> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
> 
> or at the public Mail Archive:
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Re: iTunes 11 question.

[Sarah k Alawami]

if you go into classic mode with cmd option s you might find you can do most of 
the stuff again. Also if you don't like that mode and want to go in to list 
mode choose that when you let's say choose an playlist from the pop up button. 
I like the classic mode so I stick to it. I hope apple does not take away 
classic mode..

Good luck.
On Dec 30, 2012, at 4:18 PM, Danny Noonan  wrote:

> I'm just about to build my iTunes library properly but a couple of changes to 
> iTunes in v 11 are stumping me.  Previously, I could select multiple albums 
> and then get info on them all and do batch editing to get specifics all 
> correct across all albums. I can't seem to find a way of highliting multiple 
> albums any more. Is there a work round or something I'm missing?
> 
> Also, I've managed to delete albums with out using the context menu a total 
> of 1 times since updating to 11 so wonder if there's a variable that's now 
> introduced that I'm unaware of, if the feature is now buggy, or if it is 
> removed and worked once as a fluke. I can't use del, either the backspace 
> position or above the arrows either with or with out command. Having to use 
> context to get to get info, delete etc is quite time consuming. I'm starting 
> to wonder if it's my system that doesn't allow this, i.e. buggy or if it's a 
> removal of features in the latest release.  Any info would be appreciated.
> 
> Regards,
> Danny:
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
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Re: iTunes 11 for the mac.

[amy gilbert]

hi, it's really good, the new layout will take a bit of getting used to but 
it's fully accessible. i installed the windows itunes in my vm and i've noticed 
the itunes store isn't accessible with jaws am i right?
On 30 Nov 2012, at 04:24, Danny Noonan  wrote:

> I'm wary to upgrade to iTunes 11 to early. Does anyone know how it looks re 
> Accessibility? I've had a few fun issues on Windows with JFW which give me 
> pause. 
> 
> Danny:
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
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Re: iTunes 11, Burning Albums To CD

[Daniela Rubio]

Hello!
To record an album to a CD is necessary to add it first to a playlist.
Once added, go to the playlists, select the one that you just created, and vo 
wright until you hear something like list action. It is a pup up and there you 
select burn this list into a CD.
If not, you can select your list and under the file menu, you have the option 
to burn the list into a CD.
Hope it helps.

El 04/12/2012, a las 12:39, Gordon Smith  escribió:

> hi all
> 
> OK, this is slightly odd.  What's the new procedure for writing an album to 
> CD?  The overall iTunes interface is nice, but I cannot quite figure this bit 
> out.
> 
> <--- Gordon Smith --->
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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Re: iTunes 11, Burning Albums To CD

[Gordon Smith]

I had thought this had changed in iTunes 11 but you're right, it didn't.  
Interesting to note however that writing albums to a virtual CD doesn't appear 
to work properly.  At least, XLD won't do much with them.

Gordon

On 4 Dec 2012, at 14:46, Daniela Rubio  wrote:

To record an album to a CD is necessary to add it first to a playlist.
Once added, go to the playlists, select the one that you just created, and vo 
wright until you hear something like list action. It is a pup up and there you 
select burn this list into a CD.
If not, you can select your list and under the file menu, you have the option 
to burn the list into a CD.
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Re: iTunes 11: How To Create Free Ringtone and Text Tone | The iPhone and iPad Blog

[Red.Falcon]

Hi there!
This method works great I use it all the time!
Also for those interested the reader works on that page! [command+shift+R ]
Hth Colin

On 1 Apr 2013, at 01:19, Josh Gregory  wrote:

> Hi, I think it was on here that somebody was asking, long time ago, how to 
> create ring tones on the Mac. I've been wondering this myself and have been 
> able to do it, up until now, with music converter Pro. However, this 
> application has been giving me issues, so I went online and found a page on 
> how to do it in iTunes. I figured I would share for people that have been 
> having problems with doing this. Hope someone finds this helpful. Thank you.
> 
> 
> http://www.simonblog.com/2012/12/01/itunes-11-how-to-create-free-ringtone-and-text-tone/
>  
> 
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Re: iTunes 11: How To Create Free Ringtone and Text Tone | The iPhone and iPad Blog

[Sarah k Alawami]

Thanks.  Yeah I do the same in amadeus and just rename the m4a to m4r.

Good luck.
On Mar 31, 2013, at 5:19 PM, Josh Gregory  wrote:

> Hi, I think it was on here that somebody was asking, long time ago, how to 
> create ring tones on the Mac. I've been wondering this myself and have been 
> able to do it, up until now, with music converter Pro. However, this 
> application has been giving me issues, so I went online and found a page on 
> how to do it in iTunes. I figured I would share for people that have been 
> having problems with doing this. Hope someone finds this helpful. Thank you.
> 
> 
> http://www.simonblog.com/2012/12/01/itunes-11-how-to-create-free-ringtone-and-text-tone/
>  
> 
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Re: iTunes 11: How To Create Free Ringtone and Text Tone | The iPhone and iPad Blog

[Red.Falcon]

Hi again!
I'm sorry I forgot to say before if you want the tone to show up as a dedicated 
text alert do not make it longer than 30 seconds or it will not show up as a 
option under text alerts on the iPhone!
Colin
On 1 Apr 2013, at 01:57, Sarah k Alawami  wrote:

> Thanks.  Yeah I do the same in amadeus and just rename the m4a to m4r.
> 
> Good luck.
> On Mar 31, 2013, at 5:19 PM, Josh Gregory  wrote:
> 
>> Hi, I think it was on here that somebody was asking, long time ago, how to 
>> create ring tones on the Mac. I've been wondering this myself and have been 
>> able to do it, up until now, with music converter Pro. However, this 
>> application has been giving me issues, so I went online and found a page on 
>> how to do it in iTunes. I figured I would share for people that have been 
>> having problems with doing this. Hope someone finds this helpful. Thank you.
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.simonblog.com/2012/12/01/itunes-11-how-to-create-free-ringtone-and-text-tone/
>>  
>> 
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Re: iTunes 11: How To Create Free Ringtone and Text Tone | The iPhone and iPad Blog

[Josh Gregory]

Oh cool and thx and np :) 

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 31, 2013, at 9:14 PM, "Red.Falcon"  
wrote:

> Hi again!
> I'm sorry I forgot to say before if you want the tone to show up as a 
> dedicated text alert do not make it longer than 30 seconds or it will not 
> show up as a option under text alerts on the iPhone!
> Colin
> On 1 Apr 2013, at 01:57, Sarah k Alawami  wrote:
> 
>> Thanks.  Yeah I do the same in amadeus and just rename the m4a to m4r.
>> 
>> Good luck.
>> On Mar 31, 2013, at 5:19 PM, Josh Gregory  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi, I think it was on here that somebody was asking, long time ago, how to 
>>> create ring tones on the Mac. I've been wondering this myself and have been 
>>> able to do it, up until now, with music converter Pro. However, this 
>>> application has been giving me issues, so I went online and found a page on 
>>> how to do it in iTunes. I figured I would share for people that have been 
>>> having problems with doing this. Hope someone finds this helpful. Thank you.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> http://www.simonblog.com/2012/12/01/itunes-11-how-to-create-free-ringtone-and-text-tone/
>>>  
>>> 
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Re: iTunes 11: How To Create Free Ringtone and Text Tone | The iPhone and iPad Blog

[Sarah k Alawami]

lol. Yeah I have known how to do this for about 2 or 3 years now. lol. but My 
ring tones fair in and out and do fancy things so I use amadeus lol! but iTunes 
works if you don't want to do fancy things. Hehaha. 

Take care.
On Mar 31, 2013, at 6:25 PM, Josh Gregory  wrote:

> Oh cool and thx and np :) 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Mar 31, 2013, at 9:14 PM, "Red.Falcon"  
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi again!
>> I'm sorry I forgot to say before if you want the tone to show up as a 
>> dedicated text alert do not make it longer than 30 seconds or it will not 
>> show up as a option under text alerts on the iPhone!
>> Colin
>> On 1 Apr 2013, at 01:57, Sarah k Alawami  wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks.  Yeah I do the same in amadeus and just rename the m4a to m4r.
>>> 
>>> Good luck.
>>> On Mar 31, 2013, at 5:19 PM, Josh Gregory  wrote:
>>> 
 Hi, I think it was on here that somebody was asking, long time ago, how to 
 create ring tones on the Mac. I've been wondering this myself and have 
 been able to do it, up until now, with music converter Pro. However, this 
 application has been giving me issues, so I went online and found a page 
 on how to do it in iTunes. I figured I would share for people that have 
 been having problems with doing this. Hope someone finds this helpful. 
 Thank you.
 
 
 http://www.simonblog.com/2012/12/01/itunes-11-how-to-create-free-ringtone-and-text-tone/
  
 
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 worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
 strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
 unpredictable happen.
 
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 visiting the list website at:
 
 
>>> 
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