Re: BBEdit 7.0 - Not Impressed

[Chris Nandor]

In article ,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kee Hinckley) wrote:

> At 11:29 PM -0500 11/13/02, Chris Nandor wrote:
> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> >  [EMAIL PROTECTED] (_brian_d_foy) wrote:
> >
> >>  i'll have to see about this CVS tool thing.  i'm dubious.
> >
> >It really rocks.  It's fairly simple, but it works great.  I really only
> >want to do a few things with CVS in my text editor: commit and diff.
> 
> Local CVS-only, or remote via ssh (with passcode prompting)?

It just uses the command line cvs tool, I think.  I use it with remote 
CVS.  Mine doesn't prompt for the password, since I have ssh-agent set 
up, but yeah.

-- 
Chris Nandor  [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://pudge.net/
Open Source Development Network[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://osdn.com/

Re: BBEdit 7.0 - Not Impressed

[Kee Hinckley]

At 11:29 PM -0500 11/13/02, Chris Nandor wrote:

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (_brian_d_foy) wrote:


 i'll have to see about this CVS tool thing.  i'm dubious.


It really rocks.  It's fairly simple, but it works great.  I really only
want to do a few things with CVS in my text editor: commit and diff.


Local CVS-only, or remote via ssh (with passcode prompting)?

I keep upgrading to new BBEdit versions, and it is useful enough on 
occasion to make it worth while, but it's not my primary editor.  It 
requires far too much use of the mouse (emacs sequences probably 
help, but I gave up on emacs when my pinky literally refused to move 
one morning--it's no coincidence that Stallman has to dictate his 
edits to somebody).  Also most of my editing is of Embperl, and 
there's no way in BBEdit to merge syntax modes.  I'd dearly love them 
to make the syntax editing extensible with something like Perl 
itself.  In the meantime, I spend most of my time in vim, where I 
don't need either the mouse *or* the control keys.
--

Kee Hinckley - Somewhere.Com, LLC
http://consulting.somewhere.com/

I'm not sure which upsets me more; that people are so unwilling to accept
responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate
everyone else's.

Re: BBEdit 7.0

[John Siracusa]

On 11/14/02 12:26 AM, Peter N Lewis wrote:
>> Yeah, I considered that, but I figured it'd be mentioned somewhere in the
>> BBEdit docs if I had to go to that length.  Anyway, BBEdit appears to try to
>> contact the correct server, which leads me to believe it is reading my
>> config (or at least some of it).  Or is the hostname in the CVS/ directories
>> somewhere?  Anyway, I'll try futzing with environment.plist tomorrow...
> 
> Yes, once you setup a CVS directory, it no longer needs the CVS ROOT
> (it is in ./CVS/Root & ./CVS/Repository.  You still need the CVS RSH
> setting though, at least if you want it to go through ssh.

Yup, that makes sense, and that was it.  Works fine now, thanks :)

-John

Re: BBEdit 7.0 - Not Impressed

[Mike Schienle]

On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:09:43 -0600 Pete Prodoehl wrote:

> 
> jEdit anyone? http://jedit.org/
> 
> Open-source, customizable, hackable, extendable, good community, 
> responsive developers, lots of plugins, multi-platform, etc...
> 
> True, it's slower than BBEdit (since it's written in Java) but it's also 
> more open, if that's important to you.

I plan to upgrade BBEdit tonight or tomorrow as soon as I hunt down the
license keys. However, I've been dealing with gvim on a PC (and
occasionally on my Mac) on a fairly regular basis and it offers a
language mode for IDL, something I've been asking the folks at Research
Systems and BareBones to consider for quite a while. It's not the only
reason to choose an editor, but it does make my life a little easier, and 
I'm more than comfortable with vi and its relatives. 

I'll be working at Research Systems in a couple weeks - maybe I can get
something started along those lines one day.

Mike Schienle
Interactive Visuals, Inc.
http://www.ivsoftware.com



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Re: BBEdit 7.0 - Not Impressed

[Pete Prodoehl]

jEdit anyone? http://jedit.org/

Open-source, customizable, hackable, extendable, good community, 
responsive developers, lots of plugins, multi-platform, etc...

True, it's slower than BBEdit (since it's written in Java) but it's also 
more open, if that's important to you.


Pete

_brian_d_foy wrote:
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mark S Lowe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



This is BARELY an update. BBEdit is going the way of Interarchy.=20
They've run out of features, or in most causes reached a point where=20
they refuse to program anything difficult, so we're left with features=20=



they have seem rather ossified.

i had a few exchanges with their techies about syntax coloring.  some of my
code doesn't color correctly, and they don't color everything i need.

i could fix things if i wanted to buy CodeWarrior and go through all of
that pain, but i think they should have a better mechanism for that.
why should i have to compile somthing for every language?  i should
be able to write a language description file, like vim has perhaps, 
and that is that.

a few other exchanges on things like that lead me to beleive their
locked into their code base now.

i love the program, and i buy every version, but i do miss some of the
aspects of open source development.  i still wouldn't give it up because
i like it much better than any other editor that has ever existed. :)

i'll have to see about this CVS tool thing.  i'm dubious.

Re: BBEdit 7.0

[Peter N Lewis]

Yeah, I considered that, but I figured it'd be mentioned somewhere in the
BBEdit docs if I had to go to that length.  Anyway, BBEdit appears to try to
contact the correct server, which leads me to believe it is reading my
config (or at least some of it).  Or is the hostname in the CVS/ directories
somewhere?  Anyway, I'll try futzing with environment.plist tomorrow...


Yes, once you setup a CVS directory, it no longer needs the CVS ROOT 
(it is in ./CVS/Root & ./CVS/Repository.  You still need the CVS RSH 
setting though, at least if you want it to go through ssh.

(Disclosure triangles? "Possibly Anarchie 4.0" --Peter N Lewis, 12/99)
(glad to see they finally made it ;)


Yeah, must be one of those features we've run out of, or maybe 
something not too difficult we could implement ;-)
   Peter.

--
  

Re: BBEdit 7.0

[_brian_d_foy]

In article , Peter N Lewis 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> At 14:18 -0500 13/11/02, John Siracusa wrote:
> >On 11/13/02 11:46 AM, Adrian Howard wrote:
> >>  And CVS support too! Excellent!
> >
> >Hrm, not so excellent for me so far...it just hangs with the "connecting"
> >dialog box and then fails.  CVS works fine from the command line.  Maybe
> >BBEdit isn't picking up my CVS environment variables?  I thought there'd be
> >someplace to set them in the BBEdit prefs, but I haven't found it yet...
> 
> Where are your environment variables configured?
> 
> For BBEdit to have them, they probably need to be in:
> 
> ~/.MacOSX/environment.plist

indeed.  i talked about this recently on use.perl

   http://use.perl.org/~brian_d_foy/journal/8915

Re: BBEdit 7.0

[_brian_d_foy]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, John Siracusa 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> Yeah, I considered that, but I figured it'd be mentioned somewhere in the
> BBEdit docs if I had to go to that length.  Anyway, BBEdit appears to try to
> contact the correct server, which leads me to believe it is reading my
> config (or at least some of it).  Or is the hostname in the CVS/ directories
> somewhere?  Anyway, I'll try futzing with environment.plist tomorrow...

most of the stuff CVS needs are in the per-directory CVS special directory.
however, CVS by default tries to use RSH.  you probably want to use SSH,
so you have to set the CVS_RSH environment variable.

Re: BBEdit 7.0 - Not Impressed

[Chris Nandor]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (_brian_d_foy) wrote:

> i'll have to see about this CVS tool thing.  i'm dubious.

It really rocks.  It's fairly simple, but it works great.  I really only 
want to do a few things with CVS in my text editor: commit and diff.  
And both are now a simple key-command away; commit brings up a message 
window to type in, and diff brings up a list of revisions to diff 
against (and, of course, takes you to the great BBEdit differences 
windows to view the diff).

I use it for a few other little things, like revision history and 
checking the status, but the ability to do commit and diff is huge for 
me.

-- 
Chris Nandor  [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://pudge.net/
Open Source Development Network[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://osdn.com/

Re: BBEdit 7.0

[John Siracusa]

On 11/13/02 9:43 PM, Peter N Lewis wrote:
> At 14:18 -0500 13/11/02, John Siracusa wrote:
>> On 11/13/02 11:46 AM, Adrian Howard wrote:
>>>  And CVS support too! Excellent!
>> 
>> Hrm, not so excellent for me so far...it just hangs with the "connecting"
>> dialog box and then fails.  CVS works fine from the command line.  Maybe
>> BBEdit isn't picking up my CVS environment variables?  I thought there'd be
>> someplace to set them in the BBEdit prefs, but I haven't found it yet...
> 
> Where are your environment variables configured?
> 
> For BBEdit to have them, they probably need to be in:
> 
> ~/.MacOSX/environment.plist

Yeah, I considered that, but I figured it'd be mentioned somewhere in the
BBEdit docs if I had to go to that length.  Anyway, BBEdit appears to try to
contact the correct server, which leads me to believe it is reading my
config (or at least some of it).  Or is the hostname in the CVS/ directories
somewhere?  Anyway, I'll try futzing with environment.plist tomorrow...

(Disclosure triangles? "Possibly Anarchie 4.0" --Peter N Lewis, 12/99)
(glad to see they finally made it ;)
-John

Re: BBEdit 7.0

[Peter N Lewis]

At 14:18 -0500 13/11/02, John Siracusa wrote:

On 11/13/02 11:46 AM, Adrian Howard wrote:

 And CVS support too! Excellent!


Hrm, not so excellent for me so far...it just hangs with the "connecting"
dialog box and then fails.  CVS works fine from the command line.  Maybe
BBEdit isn't picking up my CVS environment variables?  I thought there'd be
someplace to set them in the BBEdit prefs, but I haven't found it yet...


Where are your environment variables configured?

For BBEdit to have them, they probably need to be in:

~/.MacOSX/environment.plist

Which needs to be something like:






CVSROOT
yourusername@yourhost:/cvs
CVS_RSH
ssh
DISPLAY
localhost
LC_ALL
C
PERL5LIB
/Library/Perl:/Users/yourusername/perl




Changes take effect at login, so you'll need to logout and log back in.

From what I've seen, there are three places you can put environment variables:

~/.MacOSX/environment.plist - used by everything you launch directly.

~/.cshrc or ~/.tcshrc - used by any tcsh shell you launch (including 
remotely accessed ones).  Terminal launched ones probably pick up the 
environment.plist variables, but if you ssh into your Mac from 
another Mac, then probably not.
setenv PERL5LIB /Library/Perl:/Users/yourusername/perl
setenv CVSROOT yourusername@yourhost:/cvs
setenv CVS_RSH ssh
setenv LC_ALL C

crontab -e file - you can also set envrionment variables in your 
crontab which will get used when executing cron actions.
PERL5LIB=/Library/Perl:/Users/yourusername/perl
LC_ALL=C
12 1 * * * perl dosomething.pl

Enjoy,
   Peter.


--
  

Re: BBEdit 7.0 - Not Impressed

[_brian_d_foy]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mark S Lowe 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> This is BARELY an update. BBEdit is going the way of Interarchy.=20
> They've run out of features, or in most causes reached a point where=20
> they refuse to program anything difficult, so we're left with features=20=

they have seem rather ossified.

i had a few exchanges with their techies about syntax coloring.  some of my
code doesn't color correctly, and they don't color everything i need.

i could fix things if i wanted to buy CodeWarrior and go through all of
that pain, but i think they should have a better mechanism for that.
why should i have to compile somthing for every language?  i should
be able to write a language description file, like vim has perhaps, 
and that is that.

a few other exchanges on things like that lead me to beleive their
locked into their code base now.

i love the program, and i buy every version, but i do miss some of the
aspects of open source development.  i still wouldn't give it up because
i like it much better than any other editor that has ever existed. :)

i'll have to see about this CVS tool thing.  i'm dubious.

Re: BBEdit 7.0 - Not Impressed

[Mark S Lowe]

This is BARELY an update. BBEdit is going the way of Interarchy. 
They've run out of features, or in most causes reached a point where 
they refuse to program anything difficult, so we're left with features 
that barely effect the major user base.

BBEdit needs:

• A MUCH stronger Find and Replace manager (LIKE BATCH PROCESSING) - 
but I've already mentioned it, and regardless of the fact everyone 
developer I know would benefit GREATLY from such a feature, the 
developers refuse to make it, because it's too hard.

• Better Recent document management. What do we get now? A 
non-configurable (w/o hacking) interface that remembers a handful of 
documents. I've suggested methods of enhancing the Windows palette to 
partition itself into two sections, and of course...the GUI gods at 
BareBones put their own bias over customer needs. At LEAST they could 
offer a Preference entry for how many recent documents we'd like to 
see. An no, a clunky File Group is not a viable solution.

• Better Color Management. Some of us use black backgrounds...well that 
means that if we want to print our code in color, none of the color 
values print worth a damn because their brightness levels are too high. 
Why not offer a brightness reduction during printing for those of us 
using low emission settings?

• Better Spell Checker. What year is it? The suggestions and overall 
interface is in dire need of some serious love. 7.0 should definitely 
have addressed the last two versions that barely changed this 
interface. I was specifically told when version 6.0 came out that Spell 
Checking was going to get a boost in functionality. Still waiting.

• Better line selection. Simple...you click the line number, the line 
is selected. WOW! I'm a genius!

• Better Font Management. Do we really need to select through every 
version of a single font? Where are the programmers self-respect? Why 
not integrate the OSX Font Panel?

• Where did the table builder go? This was a GREAT piece of software 
that just disappeared, and yet it solved a HUGE labor problem in laying 
out tables. No it wasn't perfect, but when I need a perfect number of 
columns and rows, it was there for me.

• Improved Document Info panel. It's nice to know how many characters 
are in a document, but what about which character I'm on? Thanks for 
the ROW / CHARACTER indicator, but that doesn't do a thing for tracking 
error log info that says you have a syntax error at character 433 in 
document blah.cgi.

• Improved ƒunction menu. I like the enhancements for HTML section 
recognition, but how about noticing the functions I've called within 
Perl sub routines. As in:

	myProcedure
		goDoSomething
		goDoSomethingElse

All in all, I'm a little sad with 7.0. BBEdit is a text editor first 
and foremost. When a company loses sight of their core business, they 
start to decline, and eventually disappear. 7.0 is the first step into 
the grave without going to Windows. Keep terminal software, ftp images, 
and all other extraneous stuff OFF the R&D plate until you've mastered 
text editing.

-m-

On Wednesday, November 13, 2002, at 08:29  AM, Bill Stephenson wrote:

Did you see that rectangular text selections made it into BBEdit 7.0 
:) Not
only was Jim listening to us, he (they?) must have worked pretty hard 
to get
this feature ready in time for the 7.0 release. Looks like some other 
cool
features are in there too. I'm getting mine now!

--

Bill Stephenson

Re: BBEdit 7.0

[Chris Nandor]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Siracusa) wrote:

> On 11/13/02 11:46 AM, Adrian Howard wrote:
> > And CVS support too! Excellent!
> 
> Hrm, not so excellent for me so far...it just hangs with the "connecting"
> dialog box and then fails.  CVS works fine from the command line.  Maybe
> BBEdit isn't picking up my CVS environment variables?  I thought there'd be
> someplace to set them in the BBEdit prefs, but I haven't found it yet...

The only problem I had like that was when I tried to use CVS with a 
checkout that had Mac newlines.  Oopsie.  :)

-- 
Chris Nandor  [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://pudge.net/
Open Source Development Network[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://osdn.com/

Re: BBEdit 7.0

[Chris Nandor]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Adrian Howard) wrote:

> And CVS support too! Excellent!

The CVS support is very cool, too.

-- 
Chris Nandor  [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://pudge.net/
Open Source Development Network[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://osdn.com/

Re: BBEdit 7.0

[John Siracusa]

On 11/13/02 11:46 AM, Adrian Howard wrote:
> And CVS support too! Excellent!

Hrm, not so excellent for me so far...it just hangs with the "connecting"
dialog box and then fails.  CVS works fine from the command line.  Maybe
BBEdit isn't picking up my CVS environment variables?  I thought there'd be
someplace to set them in the BBEdit prefs, but I haven't found it yet...

(I know, I know, RTFM...getting to it... :)
-John

Re: BBEdit 7.0

[Adrian Howard]

And CVS support too! Excellent!

Where's my credit card...

Adrian

On Wednesday, November 13, 2002, at 04:29  pm, Bill Stephenson wrote:


Did you see that rectangular text selections made it into BBEdit 7.0 :) 
Not
only was Jim listening to us, he (they?) must have worked pretty hard to 
get
this feature ready in time for the 7.0 release. Looks like some other cool
features are in there too. I'm getting mine now!