Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
Lawrence Sica squawked out on Tuesday 30-Aug-2011@10:14:36 > If 10 people use a computer you need to own 10 licenses for them to all use > it if it is commercial. No. If ten people use *a* computer you need one license. If one person uses ten computers, you need one license. If ten people use ten computers, you need ten licenses. -- With excitement like this, who is needing enemas? ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
Ashley Aitken squawked out on Tuesday 30-Aug-2011@10:07:09 > Hi Larry, > > Thanks for your post. > > On 30/08/2011, at 11:49 PM, Lawrence Sica wrote: > >> Mac App store has no restriction, the iTunes app store does. That is what it >> says. This jives with what Steve said and what I've seen bear out. This is >> more about media than apps really which makes a lot of sense. > > > This is sound it looks but I'm not so sure it’s the reality or at least the > future. > > Also from the license: > >> (i) You may download and use an application from the Mac App Store (“Mac App >> Store Product”) for personal, non-commercial use on any Apple-branded >> products running Mac OS X (“Mac Computer”) that you own or control. > > Which sounds good ... until family members want to have their own MAS > accounts or MAS and iTunes accounts merge. > > Separately, for commercial use, we have: > >> (ii) If you are a commercial enterprise or educational institution, you may >> download a Mac App Store Product for use by either (a) a single individual >> on each of the Mac Computer(s) used by that individual that you own or >> control or (b) multiple individuals on a single shared Mac Computer that you >> own or control. For example, a single employee may use a Mac App Store >> Product on both the employee’s desktop Mac Computer and laptop Mac Computer, >> or multiple students may serially use a Mac App Store Product on a single >> Mac Computer located at a resource center or library. For the sake of >> clarity, each Mac Computer used serially by multiple users requires a >> separate license. > > Which seems contradictory (in itself)? It firstly says: It says that the license for commercial or education users is either a ‘seat’ license or a ‘user’ license. So, if I have 10 macs in my office, I need to buy Lion for all 10 of them. If I have one developer who buys BBEdit from the Mac App store, he can run it on any of the ten Macs on a single license. If someone else wants to run BBEdit too, they need to buy a separate license. > is where we are heading generally for home use as well, i.e. every family > member will have to purchase a copy (of apps or music) for themselves but may > use those purchase on any number of devices they use (and a device will be > strongly associated with a user) I would consider that every computer and iOS device in the house, regardless of who it ’belongs’ too is a device that *I* own or control. >> (iii) Use may require sign-in with the Apple ID used to download the Mac App >> Store Product from the Mac App Store. > > This seems a bit strange, suggesting perhaps you may have to subsequently > sign-in with the Apple ID used to download the Mac App Store product, I hope > just for updates not for use etc. Yes. If you buy Xcode on Machine And then copy the installer to Machine B and run it, Machine B will ask you to login to the account you used to buy Xcode. > I wish Apple would be more open and clear about all of this. It is clear, but it’s legally-clear, not human-clear. For legalese, it’s pretty understandable, but it is still mud. -- Friction can be a real drag. ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
Ashley Aitken squawked out on Tuesday 30-Aug-2011@09:53:38 > But a device can only use one iTunes account (for all practical purposes) > going forward and currently the limitation is, as far as I can tell, that a > device can download from only five account (hence my problem with 4 family > members and 2 overseas accounts). Yes, there is a 5 account limit per device.If you ahv 6 accounts, you’re kind of screwed on that front. -- BART BUCKS ARE NOT LEGAL TENDER Bart chalkboard Ep. 8F06 ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
Ashley Aitken squawked out on Tuesday 30-Aug-2011@09:03:00 > Anyway I think it is clear that in the future an iOS device can (for all > practical purposes) only be associated with one iTunes account. So if we > want to have separate accounts I can't see how they can share apps, Music etc. No, this is certainly not true. When I gave my old 3GS to my mom there was a long period of time there where the phone had apps that were mine and apps that were hers. Eventually we got all the ‘mine’ apps off or replaced, but she was able to run the phone without any issues with two iTunes accounts and at least apps from each account working. The apps of mine she liked she bought on her own account and the ones she didn’t like she just deleted. She wasn’t able to update the ones on my account, so there was built-in motivation to either buy or delete. -- "He has Van Gogh's ear for music." - Billy Wilder ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
Ashley Aitken squawked out on Tuesday 30-Aug-2011@06:41:33 > > On 30/08/2011, at 1:54 PM, LuKreme wrote: > >> Ashley Aitken squawked out on Monday 29-Aug-2011@20:43:29 >> >> Er, what are you talking about? All App Store purchases are usable on ALL >> your iOS devices. If you buy angry birds for $0.99 and you own 47 iOS >> devices then you can run Angry Birds on all 47 iOS devices for the same >> $0.99. > > IANAL but: > >> When you first acquire App Store Products, as defined below, (excluding >> products acquired from the Mac App Store) or iBookstore Products, as defined >> below, through the App and Book Services (collectively, “Eligible Content”) > ... >> >> (i) You may auto-download Eligible Content or download previously-purchased >> Eligible Content from an Account on up to 10 Associated Devices, provided no >> more than 5 are iTunes-authorized computers. >> >> (ii) An Associated Device can be associated with only one Account at any >> given time. >> >> (iii)You may switch an Associated Device to a different Account only >> once every 90 days. >> >> (iv) You may download previously-purchased free content onto an unlimited >> number of devices while it is free on the App and Book Services, but on no >> more than 5 iTunes-authorized computers. >> >> The above terms (i) to (iv) do not apply to App Store Products. > > > No more than 5 authorised computers, so I guess up to 10 iOS devices? All of that is about music and applies to the DRMed music. I’m surprised it is still in there at all. > Although the last sentence seems to negate all the above? App Store Products? The last sentence negates it completely for purchased apps, which have no limit. In fact, Apple specifically said that buying Lion once allowed you to install it on “all your computers”. Not “up to 5 (or 10) of your computers” but *all*. I know that it at least *WAS* possible to install a purchased app on 12 iOS devices because I’ve done it. >> The software _IS_ DRMed, and yes, you will have to login to your account in >> order to get updates. But you do not have to stay logged in to run the >> software (at least notes far as I can tell). > > So are you saying you cannot take an app downloaded from the Mac App Store > and install it on another Mac and run it? That would be news to me. I am pretty sure that if it is a paid app and you move it to a machine where you haven’t used the itunes account you bought the app with it will come up and ask you to login to the Mac App Store. An exception to this appears to be the Lion Installer. However, the Xcode installer will come up and complain about the MAS account (I know this because someone posted to a newsgroup complaining that the Xcode they downloaded on his bosses machine wouldn’t install on his development machine). > I wonder what happens if you copy and app onto a Mac - does it warn you that > it is new? Pretty sure. > I think people would choose this option (lockdown except MAS) for simplicity > and security and, for example, for children (no unauthorised or no adult > apps, or apps that can access adult content. > >> >> I don’t understand the distinction you are trying to make here. I have 5 >> macs currently that can run the Mac App Store; “And Yet it Moves” runs on >> all five of those Macs, including the MacBookPro when it is not connected to >> the Internet. > > Sorry, I was referring to the fact that people in my house may want to have > their own iCloud accounts (especially if iCloud merges with iTunes), for > example so they can sync their own info, photos, have their own account > balances, gift card allowances etc. > > I manage all the Macs in our house but I would hope we could run with > different iCloud accounts but still share apps etc. Oh. Right. That’s going to be fun. > I guess I am really wanting family iCloud/iTunes accounts where magic number > is also much greater than 5 or 10 because with two or three devices (inc. > iOS) each, and a server or two (old Macs never die they just become servers), > it's easy to get to 10+ Forget about the 10 (or the 5) those numbers only apply to the old DRMed iTunes music tracks. -- 'It's always a good thing to let a few tales spread, you know. Pour encouragy le-poor encoura-to make everyone sit up and damn well take notice.' --Eric ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: [SPF:Probably_Forged] Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 14:27, Ashley Aitken wrote: > > Sorry folks for confusing things, I'll wait and see. Not that I want to discourage discussion, just that it seems to me that in this case the information isn't available yet. Or at least, it's not well defined. iCloud is, I think, a month or two away, hopefully things will be clearer when it arrives. -- arno s hautala /-| a...@alum.wpi.edu pgp b2c9d448 ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
On Aug 30, 2011, at 12:28 PM, Nathan Sims wrote: On Aug 30, 2011, at 11:03 AM, objectwerks inc wrote: by logging out and logging back in to the store with your ID at another country's store you should be able to switch store as often as you want. Hrm, I just tried this and got an alert panel saying "Your ID is not authorized to purchase from this iTunes Store." Is there some magic to enabling an ID for multiple stores? You have to have a different ID for each store. By logging in under a different ID, it will use that ID's default store for purchases. ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
On Aug 30, 2011, at 11:03 AM, objectwerks inc wrote: > by logging out and logging back in to the store with your ID at another > country's store you should be able to switch store as often as you want. Hrm, I just tried this and got an alert panel saying "Your ID is not authorized to purchase from this iTunes Store." Is there some magic to enabling an ID for multiple stores? ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
On 31/08/2011, at 2:23 AM, Arno Hautala wrote: > You seem to be making a lot of assumptions about the future. Yes, I mentioned that I was trying to understand (guess) where Apple is going. They sure don't seem to be making it clear to me ... but why would they when the money is flowing in faster than they can shovel from iTunes and elsewhere. > Perhaps it'd be best to wait until iCloud is actually released? Yes, I agree. Sorry folks for confusing things, I'll wait and see. Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 14:18, Ashley Aitken wrote: > > I do what you suggest now but believe it won't be possible in the future. > Yes, I know that is iCloud but I think the Setting->Store will be the iCloud > account in the future. > How do MobileMe (soon to be iCloud) account, iTunes Store account, and Mac > App Store account relate going forward? You seem to be making a lot of assumptions about the future. Perhaps it'd be best to wait until iCloud is actually released? -- arno s hautala /-| a...@alum.wpi.edu pgp b2c9d448 ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
On 31/08/2011, at 2:03 AM, objectwerks inc wrote: > > On Aug 30, 2011, at 11:56 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > >> (since we can't switch stores regularly on iOS devices) > > > by logging out and logging back in to the store with your ID at another > country's store you should be able to switch store as often as you want. > > you can force a log out in Settings->Store by touching the apple id (maybe on > the second screen -- first touch gets you to details) I'm sorry, so confused. I do what you suggest now but believe it won't be possible in the future. Wouldn't that be switching an associated device to a different acount. > (iii) You may switch an Associated Device to a different Account only once > every 90 days. Yes, I know that is iCloud but I think the Setting->Store will be the iCloud account in the future. Perhaps this is what I am confusing? How do MobileMe (soon to be iCloud) account, iTunes Store account, and Mac App Store account relate going forward? Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
On Aug 30, 2011, at 11:56 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > (since we can't switch stores regularly on iOS devices) by logging out and logging back in to the store with your ID at another country's store you should be able to switch store as often as you want. you can force a log out in Settings->Store by touching the apple id (maybe on the second screen -- first touch gets you to details) ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
On 31/08/2011, at 12:52 AM, objectwerks inc wrote: > > On Aug 30, 2011, at 10:50 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > >> >> See my original post (or read the license): >> (iii) You may switch an Associated Device to a different Account only once every 90 days. >> >> Am I reading that incorrectly? > > Yes. This is talking about the iCloud auto-download. It is not talking > about purchasing (Store) id AFAICT. This is the iCloud terms of service you > are quoting from, not the iTunes store terms of service. > > If you remember, I posted this terms of service or emailed them to you > originally. ;) Yes, thank you for that. I agree it is referring to iCloud but this document is the "iTunes Store - Terms and Conditions" I am confused and find it sad that I have to try to understand legalese. I have found this also in the document: > APP STORE PRODUCT USAGE RULES > > (i) You may download and sync an App Store Product for personal, > noncommercial use on any iOS Device you own or control. > > ... > (iii) You shall be able to store App Store Products from up to five different > Accounts at a time on a compatible iOS Device. > > (iv) You shall be able to manually sync App Store Products from at least one > iTunes-authorized device to iOS Devices that have manual sync mode, provided > that the App Store Product is associated with an Account on the primary > iTunes-authorized device, where the primary iTunes-authorized device is the > one that was first synced with the iOS Device or the one that you > subsequently designate as primary using the iTunes application. (i) confirms LuKreme's statement (apologies) (iii) still seems limiting to me and now I guess that means only from the same country store (since we can't switch stores regularly on iOS devices) I can't understand (iv) What iOS devices don't have manual sync mode? I know iOS 5 will work without a PC but not having a manual sync mode sounds more than that? I still feel we are heading towards a set-up where we will all have to purchase apps and other content for the devices we use, as opposed to the ones we manage for others to use, but hopefully I am wrong. I guess I just have to wait and see how this all works out. Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
On Aug 30, 2011, at 10:50 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > > See my original post (or read the license): > >>> (iii) You may switch an Associated Device to a different Account only >>> once every 90 days. > > Am I reading that incorrectly? Yes. This is talking about the iCloud auto-download. It is not talking about purchasing (Store) id AFAICT. This is the iCloud terms of service you are quoting from, not the iTunes store terms of service. If you remember, I posted this terms of service or emailed them to you originally. ;) Chad > > Note this may not stop one from entering a password for another account when > updating (or syncing?). > > On 31/08/2011, at 12:43 AM, objectwerks inc wrote: > >> >> On Aug 30, 2011, at 10:28 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: >> >>> >>> On 31/08/2011, at 12:07 AM, objectwerks inc wrote: >>> On Aug 30, 2011, at 9:53 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > But a device can only use one iTunes account (for all practical purposes) > going forward and currently the limitation is, as far as I can tell, that > a device can download from only five account (hence my problem with 4 > family members and 2 overseas accounts). This is not clear. I don't think it says anywhere that a device can only use one iTunes account. It can only have auto load turned on for one account. I think you are jumping to conclusions. >>> >>> Sorry, I am not trying to jump to conclusions, I am just trying to >>> understand. >>> >>> A device can only change the iTunes store account every 90 days, which for >>> all practical purposes is a lifetime of hard labour ;-) >> >> Where does it say this? >> >> Chad >> >>> >>> I would be happy with only auto downloading from one account but how else >>> do you get new stuff on (without syncing for the moment) without changing >>> the store account? I would be happy to do this by syncing but I'm not sure >>> how this will really work either. >>> >>> There is also the five account limit. >>> >>> And, as I currently have apps from more than one store (country) on my iOS >>> devices I have to switch the store and account before I can download to >>> update. No longer possible with one 90 day limit. >>> >>> I can admit I was wrong for using other country stores - it was just the >>> temptation of getting some apps earlier and also the price of larger cost >>> apps (e.g. Tom Tom Europe) varies quite a bit from store to store. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Ashley. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Ashley Aitken >>> Perth, Western Australia >>> mrhatken at mac dot com >>> Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> MacOSX-talk mailing list >>> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >>> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk >> > > ___ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
See my original post (or read the license): >> (iii)You may switch an Associated Device to a different Account only >> once every 90 days. Am I reading that incorrectly? Note this may not stop one from entering a password for another account when updating (or syncing?). On 31/08/2011, at 12:43 AM, objectwerks inc wrote: > > On Aug 30, 2011, at 10:28 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > >> >> On 31/08/2011, at 12:07 AM, objectwerks inc wrote: >> >>> >>> On Aug 30, 2011, at 9:53 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: >>> But a device can only use one iTunes account (for all practical purposes) going forward and currently the limitation is, as far as I can tell, that a device can download from only five account (hence my problem with 4 family members and 2 overseas accounts). >>> >>> This is not clear. I don't think it says anywhere that a device can only >>> use one iTunes account. >>> It can only have auto load turned on for one account. I think you are >>> jumping to conclusions. >> >> Sorry, I am not trying to jump to conclusions, I am just trying to >> understand. >> >> A device can only change the iTunes store account every 90 days, which for >> all practical purposes is a lifetime of hard labour ;-) > > Where does it say this? > > Chad > >> >> I would be happy with only auto downloading from one account but how else do >> you get new stuff on (without syncing for the moment) without changing the >> store account? I would be happy to do this by syncing but I'm not sure how >> this will really work either. >> >> There is also the five account limit. >> >> And, as I currently have apps from more than one store (country) on my iOS >> devices I have to switch the store and account before I can download to >> update. No longer possible with one 90 day limit. >> >> I can admit I was wrong for using other country stores - it was just the >> temptation of getting some apps earlier and also the price of larger cost >> apps (e.g. Tom Tom Europe) varies quite a bit from store to store. >> >> Cheers, >> Ashley. >> >> >> -- >> Ashley Aitken >> Perth, Western Australia >> mrhatken at mac dot com >> Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> MacOSX-talk mailing list >> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
On Aug 30, 2011, at 10:28 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > > On 31/08/2011, at 12:07 AM, objectwerks inc wrote: > >> >> On Aug 30, 2011, at 9:53 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: >> >>> But a device can only use one iTunes account (for all practical purposes) >>> going forward and currently the limitation is, as far as I can tell, that a >>> device can download from only five account (hence my problem with 4 family >>> members and 2 overseas accounts). >> >> This is not clear. I don't think it says anywhere that a device can only >> use one iTunes account. >> It can only have auto load turned on for one account. I think you are >> jumping to conclusions. > > Sorry, I am not trying to jump to conclusions, I am just trying to understand. > > A device can only change the iTunes store account every 90 days, which for > all practical purposes is a lifetime of hard labour ;-) Where does it say this? Chad > > I would be happy with only auto downloading from one account but how else do > you get new stuff on (without syncing for the moment) without changing the > store account? I would be happy to do this by syncing but I'm not sure how > this will really work either. > > There is also the five account limit. > > And, as I currently have apps from more than one store (country) on my iOS > devices I have to switch the store and account before I can download to > update. No longer possible with one 90 day limit. > > I can admit I was wrong for using other country stores - it was just the > temptation of getting some apps earlier and also the price of larger cost > apps (e.g. Tom Tom Europe) varies quite a bit from store to store. > > Cheers, > Ashley. > > > -- > Ashley Aitken > Perth, Western Australia > mrhatken at mac dot com > Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) > > > > > > > > ___ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
On 31/08/2011, at 12:07 AM, objectwerks inc wrote: > > On Aug 30, 2011, at 9:53 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > >> But a device can only use one iTunes account (for all practical purposes) >> going forward and currently the limitation is, as far as I can tell, that a >> device can download from only five account (hence my problem with 4 family >> members and 2 overseas accounts). > > This is not clear. I don't think it says anywhere that a device can only use > one iTunes account. > It can only have auto load turned on for one account. I think you are > jumping to conclusions. Sorry, I am not trying to jump to conclusions, I am just trying to understand. A device can only change the iTunes store account every 90 days, which for all practical purposes is a lifetime of hard labour ;-) I would be happy with only auto downloading from one account but how else do you get new stuff on (without syncing for the moment) without changing the store account? I would be happy to do this by syncing but I'm not sure how this will really work either. There is also the five account limit. And, as I currently have apps from more than one store (country) on my iOS devices I have to switch the store and account before I can download to update. No longer possible with one 90 day limit. I can admit I was wrong for using other country stores - it was just the temptation of getting some apps earlier and also the price of larger cost apps (e.g. Tom Tom Europe) varies quite a bit from store to store. Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
On Aug 30, 2011, at 12:07 PM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > > Hi Larry, > > Thanks for your post. > > On 30/08/2011, at 11:49 PM, Lawrence Sica wrote: > >> Mac App store has no restriction, the iTunes app store does. That is what it >> says. This jives with what Steve said and what I've seen bear out. This is >> more about media than apps really which makes a lot of sense. > > > This is sound it looks but I'm not so sure it’s the reality or at least the > future. > > Also from the license: > >> (i) You may download and use an application from the Mac App Store (“Mac App >> Store Product”) for personal, non-commercial use on any Apple-branded >> products running Mac OS X (“Mac Computer”) that you own or control. > > Which sounds good ... until family members want to have their own MAS > accounts or MAS and iTunes accounts merge. It is not. Note the control/own. It ties the apple id to the application with few restrictions. > > Separately, for commercial use, we have: > >> (ii) If you are a commercial enterprise or educational institution, you may >> download a Mac App Store Product for use by either (a) a single individual >> on each of the Mac Computer(s) used by that individual that you own or >> control or (b) multiple individuals on a single shared Mac Computer that you >> own or control. For example, a single employee may use a Mac App Store >> Product on both the employee’s desktop Mac Computer and laptop Mac Computer, >> or multiple students may serially use a Mac App Store Product on a single >> Mac Computer located at a resource center or library. For the sake of >> clarity, each Mac Computer used serially by multiple users requires a >> separate license. > > Which seems contradictory (in itself)? It firstly says: > > "multiple individuals on a single shared Mac Computer that you own or > control" and "multiple students may serially use a Mac App Store Product on a > single Mac Computer located at a resource center or library" > > but then it says > > "For the sake of clarity" Right! "each Mac Computer used serially by > multiple users requires a separate license." > This is site licensing versus individual licensing which is a common thing in the enterprise. You are over thinking this. This is common in any software. If you are a large corporation and need 4000 copies of an application you need 4k licenses. You are not going to buy one copy legally and just install it everywhere without the licenses. It is becoming an issue because it is a digital download tied to an account which is not something many are used to. If 10 people use a computer you need to own 10 licenses for them to all use it if it is commercial. --Larry___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
On Aug 30, 2011, at 9:53 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > But a device can only use one iTunes account (for all practical purposes) > going forward and currently the limitation is, as far as I can tell, that a > device can download from only five account (hence my problem with 4 family > members and 2 overseas accounts). This is not clear. I don't think it says anywhere that a device can only use one iTunes account. It can only have auto load turned on for one account. I think you are jumping to conclusions. ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
Hi Larry, Thanks for your post. On 30/08/2011, at 11:49 PM, Lawrence Sica wrote: > Mac App store has no restriction, the iTunes app store does. That is what it > says. This jives with what Steve said and what I've seen bear out. This is > more about media than apps really which makes a lot of sense. This is sound it looks but I'm not so sure it’s the reality or at least the future. Also from the license: > (i) You may download and use an application from the Mac App Store (“Mac App > Store Product”) for personal, non-commercial use on any Apple-branded > products running Mac OS X (“Mac Computer”) that you own or control. Which sounds good ... until family members want to have their own MAS accounts or MAS and iTunes accounts merge. Separately, for commercial use, we have: > (ii) If you are a commercial enterprise or educational institution, you may > download a Mac App Store Product for use by either (a) a single individual on > each of the Mac Computer(s) used by that individual that you own or control > or (b) multiple individuals on a single shared Mac Computer that you own or > control. For example, a single employee may use a Mac App Store Product on > both the employee’s desktop Mac Computer and laptop Mac Computer, or multiple > students may serially use a Mac App Store Product on a single Mac Computer > located at a resource center or library. For the sake of clarity, each Mac > Computer used serially by multiple users requires a separate license. Which seems contradictory (in itself)? It firstly says: "multiple individuals on a single shared Mac Computer that you own or control" and "multiple students may serially use a Mac App Store Product on a single Mac Computer located at a resource center or library" but then it says "For the sake of clarity" Right! "each Mac Computer used serially by multiple users requires a separate license." I think this "a single employee may use a Mac App Store Product on both the employee’s desktop Mac Computer and laptop Mac Computer" is where we are heading generally for home use as well, i.e. every family member will have to purchase a copy (of apps or music) for themselves but may use those purchase on any number of devices they use (and a device will be strongly associated with a user) > (iii) Use may require sign-in with the Apple ID used to download the Mac App > Store Product from the Mac App Store. This seems a bit strange, suggesting perhaps you may have to subsequently sign-in with the Apple ID used to download the Mac App Store product, I hope just for updates not for use etc. I wish Apple would be more open and clear about all of this. Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
Hi Chad, Thanks for your post. On 30/08/2011, at 11:42 PM, objectwerks inc wrote: > > On Aug 30, 2011, at 9:03 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > >> On 30/08/2011, at 8:56 PM, Derek Chesterfield wrote: >> >>> On 30 Aug 2011, at 13:41, Ashley Aitken wrote: >>> > (i)You may auto-download Eligible Content or download > previously-purchased Eligible Content from an Account on up to 10 > Associated Devices, provided no more than 5 are iTunes-authorized > computers. No more than 5 authorised computers, so I guess up to 10 iOS devices? >>> That is referring to auto-download only. So you can configure 10 iOS >>> devices to automatically download purchases, but you can still side-load to >>> as many as you have. (At least, that's how I understand it) >> >> I am all for good interpretations but what about the "or download >> previously-purchased"? > > That is referring to auto-download of previously purchased content, versus > newly purchased content. Remember, this thing you are quoting from is part > of the iCloud T&C (at least for the beta). It is not a general policy > statement for iTunes Sorry still confused. I think also with the move to Mac-less operation of iPhones these distinctions blurr. >> What do you mean by "side-load"? Do you mean syncing the app from a Mac >> with that item in it's iTunes account? There is also the limitation that >> you can only use five accounts with (I have one each for family members plus >> a couple of overseas ones, do'h). > > At least typing in the iTunes account when you "purchase" on the device. I > don't do a lot of app synching so don't know the details. I do most of it on > device and let a synch copy it to my Mac. But a device can only use one iTunes account (for all practical purposes) going forward and currently the limitation is, as far as I can tell, that a device can download from only five account (hence my problem with 4 family members and 2 overseas accounts). Sorry still confused. Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
On Aug 30, 2011, at 8:41 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > > On 30/08/2011, at 1:54 PM, LuKreme wrote: > >> Ashley Aitken squawked out on Monday 29-Aug-2011@20:43:29 >>> On 29/08/2011, at 7:33 AM, objectwerks inc wrote: >>> no. Any software you buy on the App Store can be installed on any machine you own from your iTunes account. This is part of the deal. And none of the software has user keys. It is all built-in to the store software that you embed in your app to get it on the store. >>> >>> Yes, this is very enticing (at least for me), BUT this is what we thought >>> as well about the iTunes App Store for all your iOS devices (or at least I >>> did) and now I am a bit wary about this going forward with iCloud and all. >> >> Er, what are you talking about? All App Store purchases are usable on ALL >> your iOS devices. If you buy angry birds for $0.99 and you own 47 iOS >> devices then you can run Angry Birds on all 47 iOS devices for the same >> $0.99. > > IANAL but: > >> When you first acquire App Store Products, as defined below, (excluding >> products acquired from the Mac App Store) or iBookstore Products, as defined >> below, through the App and Book Services (collectively, “Eligible Content”) > ... >> >> (i) You may auto-download Eligible Content or download previously-purchased >> Eligible Content from an Account on up to 10 Associated Devices, provided no >> more than 5 are iTunes-authorized computers. >> >> (ii) An Associated Device can be associated with only one Account at any >> given time. >> >> (iii)You may switch an Associated Device to a different Account only >> once every 90 days. >> >> (iv) You may download previously-purchased free content onto an unlimited >> number of devices while it is free on the App and Book Services, but on no >> more than 5 iTunes-authorized computers. >> >> The above terms (i) to (iv) do not apply to App Store Products. > > > No more than 5 authorised computers, so I guess up to 10 iOS devices? > > Although the last sentence seems to negate all the above? App Store Products? Mac App store has no restriction, the iTunes app store does. That is what it says. This jives with what Steve said and what I've seen bear out. This is more about media than apps really which makes a lot of sense. --Larry ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
On Aug 30, 2011, at 9:03 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > > Hi Derek, > > Thanks for your post. > > On 30/08/2011, at 8:56 PM, Derek Chesterfield wrote: > >> On 30 Aug 2011, at 13:41, Ashley Aitken wrote: >> (i)You may auto-download Eligible Content or download previously-purchased Eligible Content from an Account on up to 10 Associated Devices, provided no more than 5 are iTunes-authorized computers. >>> >>> No more than 5 authorised computers, so I guess up to 10 iOS devices? >>> >> That is referring to auto-download only. So you can configure 10 iOS devices >> to automatically download purchases, but you can still side-load to as many >> as you have. (At least, that's how I understand it) > > I am all for good interpretations but what about the "or download > previously-purchased"? That is referring to auto-download of previously purchased content, versus newly purchased content. Remember, this thing you are quoting from is part of the iCloud T&C (at least for the beta). It is not a general policy statement for iTunes > > What do you mean by "side-load"? Do you mean syncing the app from a Mac with > that item in it's iTunes account? There is also the limitation that you can > only use five accounts with (I have one each for family members plus a couple > of overseas ones, do'h). At least typing in the iTunes account when you "purchase" on the device. I don't do a lot of app synching so don't know the details. I do most of it on device and let a synch copy it to my Mac. Chad > > I am confused by all this really. > > Anyway I think it is clear that in the future an iOS device can (for all > practical purposes) only be associated with one iTunes account. So if we > want to have separate accounts I can't see how they can share apps, Music etc. > >>> I guess I am really wanting family iCloud/iTunes accounts where magic >>> number is also much greater than 5 or 10 because with two or three devices >>> (inc. iOS) each, and a server or two (old Macs never die they just become >>> servers), it's easy to get to 10+ >>> >> The account you use to log in to MAS is independent of that that you use for >> other iCloud services, e.g. iTunes or Mail. So you children can still have >> their own iCloud for purchasing music, while you use one account for all the >> computers in MAS > > Again, I am confused, I think I have used the same account for my MAS as for > iCloud (currently MobileMe) but maybe I am wrong. > > I was also suggesting that they (iTunes and MAS accounts, maybe even the > apps?) may merge in the future. So, if everyone wants to have their own > account, they will not be able to share Mac apps either. Or at least, I was > speculating / guessing this. > > Cheers, > Ashley. > > > > -- > Ashley Aitken > Perth, Western Australia > mrhatken at mac dot com > Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) > > > > > > > > ___ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
Hi Derek, Thanks for your post. On 30/08/2011, at 8:56 PM, Derek Chesterfield wrote: > On 30 Aug 2011, at 13:41, Ashley Aitken wrote: > >>> (i)You may auto-download Eligible Content or download >>> previously-purchased Eligible Content from an Account on up to 10 >>> Associated Devices, provided no more than 5 are iTunes-authorized computers. >> >> No more than 5 authorised computers, so I guess up to 10 iOS devices? >> > That is referring to auto-download only. So you can configure 10 iOS devices > to automatically download purchases, but you can still side-load to as many > as you have. (At least, that's how I understand it) I am all for good interpretations but what about the "or download previously-purchased"? What do you mean by "side-load"? Do you mean syncing the app from a Mac with that item in it's iTunes account? There is also the limitation that you can only use five accounts with (I have one each for family members plus a couple of overseas ones, do'h). I am confused by all this really. Anyway I think it is clear that in the future an iOS device can (for all practical purposes) only be associated with one iTunes account. So if we want to have separate accounts I can't see how they can share apps, Music etc. >> I guess I am really wanting family iCloud/iTunes accounts where magic number >> is also much greater than 5 or 10 because with two or three devices (inc. >> iOS) each, and a server or two (old Macs never die they just become >> servers), it's easy to get to 10+ >> > The account you use to log in to MAS is independent of that that you use for > other iCloud services, e.g. iTunes or Mail. So you children can still have > their own iCloud for purchasing music, while you use one account for all the > computers in MAS Again, I am confused, I think I have used the same account for my MAS as for iCloud (currently MobileMe) but maybe I am wrong. I was also suggesting that they (iTunes and MAS accounts, maybe even the apps?) may merge in the future. So, if everyone wants to have their own account, they will not be able to share Mac apps either. Or at least, I was speculating / guessing this. Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
On Aug 30, 2011, at 8:41 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > . . .and a server or two (old Macs never die they just become servers) I'm glad I'm not the only one that happens to:-) --- There are only three kinds of stress; your basic nuclear stress, cooking stress, and A$$hole stress. The key to their relationship is Jello. neil ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
On 30 Aug 2011, at 13:41, Ashley Aitken wrote: > > On 30/08/2011, at 1:54 PM, LuKreme wrote: > >> Ashley Aitken squawked out on Monday 29-Aug-2011@20:43:29 > >> When you first acquire App Store Products, as defined below, (excluding >> products acquired from the Mac App Store) or iBookstore Products, as defined >> below, through the App and Book Services (collectively, “Eligible Content”) > ... >> >> (i)You may auto-download Eligible Content or download >> previously-purchased Eligible Content from an Account on up to 10 Associated >> Devices, provided no more than 5 are iTunes-authorized computers. >> >> (ii)An Associated Device can be associated with only one Account at any >> given time. >> >> (iii)You may switch an Associated Device to a different Account only >> once every 90 days. >> >> (iv)You may download previously-purchased free content onto an unlimited >> number of devices while it is free on the App and Book Services, but on no >> more than 5 iTunes-authorized computers. >> >> The above terms (i) to (iv) do not apply to App Store Products. > > > No more than 5 authorised computers, so I guess up to 10 iOS devices? > That is referring to auto-download only. So you can configure 10 iOS devices to automatically download purchases, but you can still side-load to as many as you have. (At least, that's how I understand it) > > I guess I am really wanting family iCloud/iTunes accounts where magic number > is also much greater than 5 or 10 because with two or three devices (inc. > iOS) each, and a server or two (old Macs never die they just become servers), > it's easy to get to 10+ > The account you use to log in to MAS is independent of that that you use for other iCloud services, e.g. iTunes or Mail. So you children can still have their own iCloud for purchasing music, while you use one account for all the computers in MAS___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: survey: what software from Mac App Store do you using?
On 30/08/2011, at 1:54 PM, LuKreme wrote: > Ashley Aitken squawked out on Monday 29-Aug-2011@20:43:29 >> On 29/08/2011, at 7:33 AM, objectwerks inc wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> no. Any software you buy on the App Store can be installed on any machine >>> you own from your iTunes account. This is part of the deal. And none of >>> the software has user keys. It is all built-in to the store software that >>> you embed in your app to get it on the store. >> >> Yes, this is very enticing (at least for me), BUT this is what we thought as >> well about the iTunes App Store for all your iOS devices (or at least I did) >> and now I am a bit wary about this going forward with iCloud and all. > > Er, what are you talking about? All App Store purchases are usable on ALL > your iOS devices. If you buy angry birds for $0.99 and you own 47 iOS devices > then you can run Angry Birds on all 47 iOS devices for the same $0.99. IANAL but: > When you first acquire App Store Products, as defined below, (excluding > products acquired from the Mac App Store) or iBookstore Products, as defined > below, through the App and Book Services (collectively, “Eligible Content”) ... > > (i) You may auto-download Eligible Content or download previously-purchased > Eligible Content from an Account on up to 10 Associated Devices, provided no > more than 5 are iTunes-authorized computers. > > (ii) An Associated Device can be associated with only one Account at any > given time. > > (iii) You may switch an Associated Device to a different Account only once > every 90 days. > > (iv) You may download previously-purchased free content onto an unlimited > number of devices while it is free on the App and Book Services, but on no > more than 5 iTunes-authorized computers. > > The above terms (i) to (iv) do not apply to App Store Products. No more than 5 authorised computers, so I guess up to 10 iOS devices? Although the last sentence seems to negate all the above? App Store Products? >> Sure, the software is not DRM'ed (AFAIK), but if you want the benefits of >> App Store Updates (future auto updates - or is that in Lion already) then >> you will probably need to have those Mac logged into the same >> MobileMe/iCloud account. > > The software _IS_ DRMed, and yes, you will have to login to your account in > order to get updates. But you do not have to stay logged in to run the > software (at least notes far as I can tell). So are you saying you cannot take an app downloaded from the Mac App Store and install it on another Mac and run it? That would be news to me. I am not talking about getting auto-updates (although that is the clincher for me anyway) >> And what's to say in the future that Apple doesn't offer the *option* of >> "locked down" Macs for those people who don't *want* the problems of malware >> or having to manage their own Applications etc. Then your apps would be >> defined by your iCloud login. > > Nothing wrong with that, is there? It’s pretty much already here. When you > download an app from the MAS and launch it, it launches. When you download an > app from the Internet, you get a dialog saying “This app was downloaded from > the Internet, are you sure you want to run it?” Sure, but the next step is to allow people to optionally choose not to allow the possibility of installing an app other than those from the MAS. As you have wisely noticed they are almost already there. I wonder what happens if you copy and app onto a Mac - does it warn you that it is new? I think people would choose this option (lockdown except MAS) for simplicity and security and, for example, for children (no unauthorised or no adult apps, or apps that can access adult content. >> I suspect, in the end, every person will be paying once for all the apps >> they use on Macs they use (and similarly for iOS devices). >> >> This is subtly different than paying once for all the apps they use on any >> Macs they manage / control / have access to (and similarly for iOS devices). > > I don’t understand the distinction you are trying to make here. I have 5 macs > currently that can run the Mac App Store; “And Yet it Moves” runs on all five > of those Macs, including the MacBookPro when it is not connected to the > Internet. Sorry, I was referring to the fact that people in my house may want to have their own iCloud accounts (especially if iCloud merges with iTunes), for example so they can sync their own info, photos, have their own account balances, gift card allowances etc. I manage all the Macs in our house but I would hope we could run with different iCloud accounts but still share apps etc. I guess I am really wanting family iCloud/iTunes accounts where magic number is also much greater than 5 or 10 because with two or three devices (inc. iOS) each, and a server or two (old Macs never die they just become servers), it's easy to get to 10+ Cheers, Ashley. _
