why are Time Machine backups so large lately?
Hi, I have been using Time Machine for many years, but lately the backups seem to be much larger than usual (i.e., hundreds of MB rather than just a few MB), even when I have not done anything. This problem is on my Mac at work, where the only things that have changed lately (that I recall) are: 1. We were forced to switch to Outlook (I had always used Apple Mail before). 2. Citrix was installed, so that I could access my work email in Outlook from home. Is there some large file (e.g., a database) associated with Outlook that keeps getting updated and thus backed up again and again? If so, what is it called and where is it located? This reminds me of the time when I used Parallels, which kept the virtual Windows machine in a large file and every time something changed in Windows, even something small, the entire large Parallels file would get backed up again in Time Machine. Eventually I excluded that file from my backups. Currently I only backup part of my main system drive. I exclude /Applications, /Library, and System Files and Applications. Essentially I just backup my user files. Does anyone have any thoughts about what might be causing my Time Machine backups to be so much larger lately? It seems like it might be related to me being forced to start using Outlook, since the timing is right. Thanks, Gregg ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: why are Time Machine backups so large lately?
It sounds like your mail file. Mac Mail uses one file per message. Old unix mbox format is one file with all of your messages. This sounds like outlook/citrix is using unix mail format, rather than one message per file format. On 2017-04-18, at 8:00 AM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] wrote: > Hi, > > I have been using Time Machine for many years, but lately the backups seem to > be much larger than usual (i.e., hundreds of MB rather than just a few MB), > even when I have not done anything. > > This problem is on my Mac at work, where the only things that have changed > lately (that I recall) are: > > 1. We were forced to switch to Outlook (I had always used Apple Mail before). > > 2. Citrix was installed, so that I could access my work email in Outlook from > home. > > Is there some large file (e.g., a database) associated with Outlook that > keeps getting updated and thus backed up again and again? If so, what is it > called and where is it located? This reminds me of the time when I used > Parallels, which kept the virtual Windows machine in a large file and every > time something changed in Windows, even something small, the entire large > Parallels file would get backed up again in Time Machine. Eventually I > excluded that file from my backups. > > Currently I only backup part of my main system drive. I exclude > /Applications, /Library, and System Files and Applications. Essentially I > just backup my user files. > > Does anyone have any thoughts about what might be causing my Time Machine > backups to be so much larger lately? It seems like it might be related to me > being forced to start using Outlook, since the timing is right. > > Thanks, > > Gregg > > > ___ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk --- Entertaining minecraft videos http://YouTube.com/keybounce ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: why are Time Machine backups so large lately?
On 2017-04-18 (09:00 MDT), "Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C]" wrote: > > Hi, > > I have been using Time Machine for many years, but lately the backups seem to > be much larger than usual (i.e., hundreds of MB rather than just a few MB), > even when I have not done anything. > > This problem I wouldn’t say it’s a problem. > 1. We were forced to switch to Outlook (I had always used Apple Mail before). That would explain it right there. > 2. Citrix was installed, so that I could access my work email in Outlook from > home. > > Is there some large file Large? No. Large if you are thinking floppies? Yes. > (e.g., a database) associated with Outlook that keeps getting updated and > thus backed up again and again? Yes. > If so, what is it called and where is it located? It used to be in ~/Documents/Outlook but that was years ago. It *SHOULD* be in ~/Library/Application Support/ > This reminds me of the time when I used Parallels, which kept the virtual > Windows machine in a large file and every time something changed in Windows, > even something small, the entire large Parallels file would get backed up > again in Time Machine. Eventually I excluded that file from my backups. By difference between a tens-of-gigabytes file and a db that is a couple hundred megs. > Currently I only backup part of my main system drive. I exclude > /Applications, /Library, and System Files and Applications. Essentially I > just backup my user files. Backing up Library and System is pretty much a one-time event and makes it much easier to restore your computer. -- Apple broke AppleScripting signatures in Mail.app, so no random signatures. ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: why are Time Machine backups so large lately?
Hi, Thanks for responding. It seems that you agree that there is some file that Outlook keeps updating, which then repeatedly gets backed up by Time Machine. This file is not as large as the Parallels file, but it's large enough to be a nuisance. I just got to work and Time Machine is trying to backup 970 MB of something (also, it says it will take 7 hours -- I don't know why it's so slow). I was not even at work doing anything and it still found nearly a GB to backup. Maybe that sounds small, but if it does this every hour, it won't take long to fill my backup drive. I looked in ~/Documents/Microsoft User Data/ and in ~/Library/Application Support/, but neither was anywhere near 970 MB. The first folder was 289 MB and the second folder was 198 MB (for all apps, not just Outlook or Microsoft). So, neither seems to explain the 970 MB. Any other suggestions? Is there an easy way to get a list of files, ordered by file size, so that I can see which files are largest? Back in the NeXT days, I think there was a program called Dark Forest, or something like that. Thanks, Gregg -Original Message- From: "@lbutlr" Date: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 7:23 AM To: MacOSX-Talk Talk Subject: Re: why are Time Machine backups so large lately? On 2017-04-18 (09:00 MDT), "Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C]" wrote: > > Hi, > > I have been using Time Machine for many years, but lately the backups seem to > be much larger than usual (i.e., hundreds of MB rather than just a few MB), > even when I have not done anything. > > This problem I wouldn’t say it’s a problem. > 1. We were forced to switch to Outlook (I had always used Apple Mail before). That would explain it right there. > 2. Citrix was installed, so that I could access my work email in Outlook from > home. > > Is there some large file Large? No. Large if you are thinking floppies? Yes. > (e.g., a database) associated with Outlook that keeps getting updated and > thus backed up again and again? Yes. > If so, what is it called and where is it located? It used to be in ~/Documents/Outlook but that was years ago. It *SHOULD* be in ~/Library/Application Support/ > This reminds me of the time when I used Parallels, which kept the virtual > Windows machine in a large file and every time something changed in Windows, > even something small, the entire large Parallels file would get backed up > again in Time Machine. Eventually I excluded that file from my backups. By difference between a tens-of-gigabytes file and a db that is a couple hundred megs. > Currently I only backup part of my main system drive. I exclude > /Applications, /Library, and System Files and Applications. Essentially I > just backup my user files. Backing up Library and System is pretty much a one-time event and makes it much easier to restore your computer. ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: why are Time Machine backups so large lately?
On 2017-04-19, at 7:58 AM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C]
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for responding.
>
> It seems that you agree that there is some file that Outlook keeps updating,
> which then repeatedly gets backed up by Time Machine. This file is not as
> large as the Parallels file, but it's large enough to be a nuisance. I just
> got to work and Time Machine is trying to backup 970 MB of something (also,
> it says it will take 7 hours -- I don't know why it's so slow). I was not
> even at work doing anything and it still found nearly a GB to backup. Maybe
> that sounds small, but if it does this every hour, it won't take long to fill
> my backup drive.
970 MB is nothing. For me, Firefox routinely triggers several hundred GB, and
at least once a day Backblaze triggers a 1.2 GB backup.
Time Machine stores at most 24 + 1/day of those backups. So even if it is
backing up a GB every time, you wind up with 24 GB + 1 GB/day up to a month,
then that's about 55 GB, and then it's 1 GB per week.
Even if your backup drive is only 1 TB, we're talking about 5% after a month.
Now, 7 hours? ... That's a problem. Is that all the time, or once that one long
backup ran, did future backups go at a normal time?
> I looked in ~/Documents/Microsoft User Data/ and in ~/Library/Application
> Support/, but neither was anywhere near 970 MB. The first folder was 289 MB
> and the second folder was 198 MB (for all apps, not just Outlook or
> Microsoft). So, neither seems to explain the 970 MB.
>
> Any other suggestions? Is there an easy way to get a list of files, ordered
> by file size, so that I can see which files are largest? Back in the NeXT
> days, I think there was a program called Dark Forest, or something like that.
You want "Grand Perspective".
In particular, try to find an older version that was made specifically for Time
Machine ("Time Machine Perspective", I think it was called), that stopped
looking at duplicated files/directories. This let it look at a TM backup and
only show you what had changed.
>> Currently I only backup part of my main system drive. I exclude
>> /Applications, /Library, and System Files and Applications. Essentially I
>> just backup my user files.
GAD, NO.
If you must exclude system files, then click the button that excludes what
Apple ships.
I would give 75% odds that you have important stuff in /Library that was put
there by programs you installed, and you probably have something in
/Applications that you would have a problem replacing.
And frankly, being able to boot from a TM drive in an emergency is a good thing.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gregg
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: "@lbutlr"
> Date: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 7:23 AM
> To: MacOSX-Talk Talk
> Subject: Re: why are Time Machine backups so large lately?
>
> On 2017-04-18 (09:00 MDT), "Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C]"
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have been using Time Machine for many years, but lately the backups seem
>> to be much larger than usual (i.e., hundreds of MB rather than just a few
>> MB), even when I have not done anything.
>>
>> This problem
>
> I wouldn’t say it’s a problem.
>
>> 1. We were forced to switch to Outlook (I had always used Apple Mail before).
>
> That would explain it right there.
>
>> 2. Citrix was installed, so that I could access my work email in Outlook
>> from home.
>>
>> Is there some large file
>
> Large? No. Large if you are thinking floppies? Yes.
>
>> (e.g., a database) associated with Outlook that keeps getting updated and
>> thus backed up again and again?
>
> Yes.
>
>> If so, what is it called and where is it located?
>
> It used to be in ~/Documents/Outlook but that was years ago. It *SHOULD* be
> in ~/Library/Application Support/
>
>> This reminds me of the time when I used Parallels, which kept the virtual
>> Windows machine in a large file and every time something changed in Windows,
>> even something small, the entire large Parallels file would get backed up
>> again in Time Machine. Eventually I excluded that file from my backups.
>
> By difference between a tens-of-gigabytes file and a db that is a couple
> hundred megs.
>
>> Currently I only backup part of my main system drive. I exclude
>> /Applications, /Library, and System Files and Applications. Essentially I
>> just backup my user files.
>
> Backing up Library and System is pretty much a one-time event and makes it
> much easier to restore your computer.
>
>
> ___
> MacOSX-talk mailing list
> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com
> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
---
Entertaining minecraft videos
http://YouTube.com/keybounce
___
MacOSX-talk mailing list
MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com
http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: why are Time Machine backups so large lately?
Hi Michael,
Thanks for your input.
I realize that most people probably think 970 MB is nothing, but my entire
system is only 279 GB and only 86 GB is being considered for backup.
I hate to admit it, but my Time Machine drive is only 320 GB. This has not been
a problem in the past, since the original backup only took about 86 GB and
subsequent backups were fairly small (before Outlook). If I backup a GB each
hour, that's about 25 GB per day, which would exhaust my 320 GB drive before
too long.
I realize that I could simply buy a larger drive, but it just seems inefficient
to backup the entire Outlook database every time a single new email is added.
Gregg
-Original Message-
From: Michael
Date: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 11:37 AM
To: "Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C]"
Cc: MacOSX-Talk Talk , "@lbutlr"
Subject: Re: why are Time Machine backups so large lately?
On 2017-04-19, at 7:58 AM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C]
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for responding.
>
> It seems that you agree that there is some file that Outlook keeps updating,
> which then repeatedly gets backed up by Time Machine. This file is not as
> large as the Parallels file, but it's large enough to be a nuisance. I just
> got to work and Time Machine is trying to backup 970 MB of something (also,
> it says it will take 7 hours -- I don't know why it's so slow). I was not
> even at work doing anything and it still found nearly a GB to backup. Maybe
> that sounds small, but if it does this every hour, it won't take long to fill
> my backup drive.
970 MB is nothing. For me, Firefox routinely triggers several hundred GB, and
at least once a day Backblaze triggers a 1.2 GB backup.
Time Machine stores at most 24 + 1/day of those backups. So even if it is
backing up a GB every time, you wind up with 24 GB + 1 GB/day up to a month,
then that's about 55 GB, and then it's 1 GB per week.
Even if your backup drive is only 1 TB, we're talking about 5% after a month.
Now, 7 hours? ... That's a problem. Is that all the time, or once that one long
backup ran, did future backups go at a normal time?
> I looked in ~/Documents/Microsoft User Data/ and in ~/Library/Application
> Support/, but neither was anywhere near 970 MB. The first folder was 289 MB
> and the second folder was 198 MB (for all apps, not just Outlook or
> Microsoft). So, neither seems to explain the 970 MB.
>
> Any other suggestions? Is there an easy way to get a list of files, ordered
> by file size, so that I can see which files are largest? Back in the NeXT
> days, I think there was a program called Dark Forest, or something like that.
You want "Grand Perspective".
In particular, try to find an older version that was made specifically for Time
Machine ("Time Machine Perspective", I think it was called), that stopped
looking at duplicated files/directories. This let it look at a TM backup and
only show you what had changed.
>> Currently I only backup part of my main system drive. I exclude
>> /Applications, /Library, and System Files and Applications. Essentially I
>> just backup my user files.
GAD, NO.
If you must exclude system files, then click the button that excludes what
Apple ships.
I would give 75% odds that you have important stuff in /Library that was put
there by programs you installed, and you probably have something in
/Applications that you would have a problem replacing.
And frankly, being able to boot from a TM drive in an emergency is a good thing.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gregg
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "@lbutlr"
> Date: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 7:23 AM
> To: MacOSX-Talk Talk
> Subject: Re: why are Time Machine backups so large lately?
>
> On 2017-04-18 (09:00 MDT), "Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C]"
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have been using Time Machine for many years, but lately the backups seem
>> to be much larger than usual (i.e., hundreds of MB rather than just a few
>> MB), even when I have not done anything.
>>
>> This problem
>
> I wouldn’t say it’s a problem.
>
>> 1. We were forced to switch to Outlook (I had always used Apple Mail before).
>
> That would explain it right there.
>
>> 2. Citrix was installed, so that I could access my work email in Outlook
>> from home.
>>
>> Is there some large file
>
> Large? No. Large if you are thinking floppies? Yes.
>
>> (e.g., a database) associated with Outlook that keeps getting updated and
>> thus backed up again and again?
>
> Yes.
>
>> If so, what is it called and where is it located?
>
> It used to be in ~/Documents/Outlook but that was years ago. It *SHOULD* be
Re: why are Time Machine backups so large lately?
On 2017-04-19, at 9:20 AM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C]
wrote:
> Hi Michael,
>
> Thanks for your input.
>
> I realize that most people probably think 970 MB is nothing, but my entire
> system is only 279 GB and only 86 GB is being considered for backup.
>
> I hate to admit it, but my Time Machine drive is only 320 GB. This has not
> been a problem in the past, since the original backup only took about 86 GB
> and subsequent backups were fairly small (before Outlook). If I backup a GB
> each hour, that's about 25 GB per day, which would exhaust my 320 GB drive
> before too long.
>
> I realize that I could simply buy a larger drive, but it just seems
> inefficient to backup the entire Outlook database every time a single new
> email is added.
Yea. Now imagine if your email database was GB's worth. There's a reason Apple
moved to "one file == one message", and put the attachments in different files
(I think it's one file == one attachment, so now one message can be many files)
when they introduced a whole-file based backup system.
It wouldn't be so bad if your backup only stored differences or otherwise
compacted historical changes; a git-based backup probably would not see this
problem on a text file.
Now, 320 GB? One day is 25 GB. One week is 25+7 = 32 GB. So yes, it will cut
down your backup history, but I don't think it will cut as much as you think.
... I'm probably about 5 times that (1.4 TB) and growing :-)
>
> Gregg
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Michael
> Date: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 11:37 AM
> To: "Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C]"
> Cc: MacOSX-Talk Talk , "@lbutlr"
>
> Subject: Re: why are Time Machine backups so large lately?
>
> On 2017-04-19, at 7:58 AM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C]
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Thanks for responding.
>>
>> It seems that you agree that there is some file that Outlook keeps updating,
>> which then repeatedly gets backed up by Time Machine. This file is not as
>> large as the Parallels file, but it's large enough to be a nuisance. I just
>> got to work and Time Machine is trying to backup 970 MB of something (also,
>> it says it will take 7 hours -- I don't know why it's so slow). I was not
>> even at work doing anything and it still found nearly a GB to backup. Maybe
>> that sounds small, but if it does this every hour, it won't take long to
>> fill my backup drive.
>
> 970 MB is nothing. For me, Firefox routinely triggers several hundred GB, and
> at least once a day Backblaze triggers a 1.2 GB backup.
>
> Time Machine stores at most 24 + 1/day of those backups. So even if it is
> backing up a GB every time, you wind up with 24 GB + 1 GB/day up to a month,
> then that's about 55 GB, and then it's 1 GB per week.
>
> Even if your backup drive is only 1 TB, we're talking about 5% after a month.
>
> Now, 7 hours? ... That's a problem. Is that all the time, or once that one
> long backup ran, did future backups go at a normal time?
>
>> I looked in ~/Documents/Microsoft User Data/ and in ~/Library/Application
>> Support/, but neither was anywhere near 970 MB. The first folder was 289 MB
>> and the second folder was 198 MB (for all apps, not just Outlook or
>> Microsoft). So, neither seems to explain the 970 MB.
>>
>> Any other suggestions? Is there an easy way to get a list of files, ordered
>> by file size, so that I can see which files are largest? Back in the NeXT
>> days, I think there was a program called Dark Forest, or something like that.
>
> You want "Grand Perspective".
>
> In particular, try to find an older version that was made specifically for
> Time Machine ("Time Machine Perspective", I think it was called), that
> stopped looking at duplicated files/directories. This let it look at a TM
> backup and only show you what had changed.
>
>>> Currently I only backup part of my main system drive. I exclude
>>> /Applications, /Library, and System Files and Applications. Essentially I
>>> just backup my user files.
>
> GAD, NO.
>
> If you must exclude system files, then click the button that excludes what
> Apple ships.
> I would give 75% odds that you have important stuff in /Library that was put
> there by programs you installed, and you probably have something in
> /Applications that you would have a problem replacing.
>
> And frankly, being able to boot from a TM drive in an emergency is a good
> thing.
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Gregg
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From
Re: why are Time Machine backups so large lately?
Grend Perspective (free) or Daisy Disk (fast) do this job surprisingly well. > On Apr 19, 2017, at 7:58 AM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] > wrote: > > Any other suggestions? Is there an easy way to get a list of files, ordered > by file size, so that I can see which files are largest? Back in the NeXT > days, I think there was a program called Dark Forest, or something like that. ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
Re: why are Time Machine backups so large lately?
On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] wrote: > Any other suggestions? Is there an easy way to get a list of files, ordered > by file size, so that I can see which files are largest? You should take a look at the command line: tmutil Specifically, "tmutil compare" You can pass in a snapshot to compare to the current state, or two snapshots to see what's different between them. I don't think that'll give you the sizes, but it should help in seeing what is being backed up. -- arno s hautala/-| a...@alum.wpi.edu pgp b2c9d448 ___ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
