Pronunciation and punctuation issues

[Sunshine]

Hi there,

I am having problems entering some words into the VO dictionary under
Speech -> Pronunciation. If I add other words, I have no problem.
However, when I try a word with a punctuation symbol, it is not used.
While I try a word like C# to be pronounced as C Sharp, reviewing this
in the table of pronunciations, I hear it being pronounced correctly
in the substitution box. When I get to use it in any other app, it
still says C Number. I even noticed that even with words like St., if
I remove the full stop, it will be pronounced well.

So in short, how do you make Voiceover to recognise a word with a
punctuation sign? How best can I proceed with making it pronounce
words correctly?

Tia,

Sunshine

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Re: Amazon Subscribe and Save Weirdness

[Dan Roy]

I tried quick nab but, I don't understand the arrow up and down thing?
clicking the links with quicknav on had no effect at all.



On Sep 12, 2011, at 7:19 AM, Rachel magario wrote:

> dan,
> 
> I am not sure if this will work, but when I run in to this problems, usually 
> it is  two  links that is set up at the same level and vo cannot focus in 
> either.
> What works for me, is instead of just navigating through the vo u rotor or 
> the regular navigation. I turn on the quick nav key and navigate the link or 
> button or whatever it is with the arrow keys and once I find the one I want, 
> just press on it with up and down arrow key together.
> Hope this helps you too.
> Rachel.
> 
> On Sep 11, 2011, at 11:59 PM, Dan Roy wrote:
> 
>> Ok, this is odd indeed.
>> 
>> I am using Lion 7.1.
>> 
>> when I go to amazon subscribe and save, I can't change or edit any of my 
>> orders.   The links are there, but, when I attempt to click on change, edit 
>> billing and or shipping info etc.  nothing happens.  However, if I turn off 
>> VO, then, they work just fine.  So, I turn off VO, hit enter to click on 
>> change, then, turn VO back on and it works fine.  The other links on amazon, 
>> at least, as far as I know work just fine.
>> I have tried, just enter, VO-spacebar and even vo-shift-spacebar.
>> 
>> Any ideas on this weird behavior.  This happens on both Safari and the 
>> latest build of Webkit.
>> 
>> Any ideas or suggestions would be most helpful, thanks.
>> 
>> 
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simulating double mouselcick (doubleclick)

[Anouk Radix]

Hi, I need to copy some text from an application that does not reside within an 
edit field. The application tells me the text will be copied to the clipboard 
if I doubleclick with the mouse on it.
I have all my cursors routed together so I know when my cursor is on the right 
place but how do I simulate a double click with vo?
Thanks, Greetings, Anouk,

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Re: solving visual captchas with mac and safari

[louie]

So is that OS CPM?

On Sep 12, 2011, at 8:05 PM, Shawn Krasniuk wrote:

> Personally, I don't think that audio captchas aren't that bad. For example, 
> when I used the OS whose name we can't say, when I wanted to demo the Acapela 
> voices, they gave me both a visual and audio captcha to choose from. The 
> Audio Captcha used Acapela Heather to speak the numbers so I could easily 
> solve the puzzle and begin my demo. I think more and more companies should 
> use a speech synthesizer like Acapela does to solve their captchas, though 
> I'm pretty sure that it's all about money. Oh well.
> 
> Shawn
> 
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louie
louiem...@wavecable.com



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Re: solving visual captchas with mac and safari

[Shawn Krasniuk]

Personally, I don't think that audio captchas aren't that bad. For example, 
when I used the OS whose name we can't say, when I wanted to demo the Acapela 
voices, they gave me both a visual and audio captcha to choose from. The Audio 
Captcha used Acapela Heather to speak the numbers so I could easily solve the 
puzzle and begin my demo. I think more and more companies should use a speech 
synthesizer like Acapela does to solve their captchas, though I'm pretty sure 
that it's all about money. Oh well.

Shawn

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Re: solving visual captchas with mac and safari

[Francisco Salvador Crespo]

Hi Teresa,

I'm very interested in test this extension. How can i get it?

Thanks,

Francisco
El 12/09/2011, a las 19:28, Teresa Cochran escribió:

> I'm looking forward to a Safari extension that will solve these capchas. I 
> don't currently have enough knowledge of the situation to know how to do it 
> myself, but appreciate any effort anyone can offer. Perhaps I may learn to 
> provide accessibility solutions one day myself. We shall see. :)
> 
> Teresa
> On Sep 12, 2011, at 12:39 PM, Chris Blouch wrote:
> 
>> It all comes down to the purpose of captcha. It is a cognitive test by 
>> supplying a puzzle that would be difficult for a computer to solve to try 
>> and prove you're not a bot. Today there are very few of those kinds of 
>> puzzles. Image and audio recognition are about the only two that haven't 
>> been cracked and it's turned into an arms race. Eventually the algorithms 
>> will be sophisticated enough that they will either mimic human behavior 
>> undetectably or the cognitive load to solve the captchas will increase to 
>> the point where real people can't solve them (already happening). Either 
>> scenario ends badly for those trying to protect the integrity of their 
>> content sites. In the meantime, just saying the current stuff doesn't work 
>> doesn't help because nobody has come up with a better solution. Anything 
>> that lowers the puzzle difficulty also makes it easier for the algorithms to 
>> solve.
>> 
>> Some previous discussions on this list:
>> 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/discuss@macvisionaries.com/msg43663.html
>> 
>> CB
>> 
>> On 9/12/11 4:04 AM, Adie wrote:
>>> 
>>> Guys,
>>> 
>>> I am fed up of audio captcha. My Member of Parliament currently has a
>>> question in to the UK Prime Minister about use of audio capcha on
>>> government websites. I know it's a drag, but we need to challenge
>>> these things every time we come across them. I was on a site the other
>>> day which had a simple equation instead of an audio captcha. It was a
>>> joy.
>>> 
>>> BTW, I love the bit where it says the audio captcha is to test whether
>>> or not you are a human being. I always write to them saying that,
>>> despite the fact that I can't see, I am nevertheless a human.
>>> 
>>> Cheers
>>> 
>>> Adrienne
>>> On Sep 11, 9:05 pm, Eric Oyen  wrote:
 I find that rather interesting. now why would the general public (and 
 business professionals) get the impression that mozilla was the most 
 accessible web browser for any OS? sure it works well with windoweeyes and 
 jaws in the windows platform. it also works mostly with orca in linux. it 
 does not work at all in OS X with voiceover (and I have even tried growl 
 with it and still had a lot of issues).
 
 I have sent more than a few emails over the last few years and all I get 
 back is nothing but a load of crapola and finger pointing. now I know we 
 can't prevail upon a bunch of volunteer code monkeys and still have them 
 do the work. if they were paid and we wrote the checks, that would 
 certainly be a different case.
 
 -Eric
 On Sep 11, 2011, at 12:43 AM, Rachel magario wrote:>  the sad part is that 
 loads of programers think firefox is the most accessible browser out 
 there. They get shocked to find it does not work on the mac. I recall a 
 programer at my work insisted that I should use mozilla. Only after he 
 tried using it  with  vo by him self,  was when the message got across!
>> 
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Re: solving visual captchas with mac and safari

[Teresa Cochran]

I'm looking forward to a Safari extension that will solve these capchas. I 
don't currently have enough knowledge of the situation to know how to do it 
myself, but appreciate any effort anyone can offer. Perhaps I may learn to 
provide accessibility solutions one day myself. We shall see. :)

Teresa
On Sep 12, 2011, at 12:39 PM, Chris Blouch wrote:

> It all comes down to the purpose of captcha. It is a cognitive test by 
> supplying a puzzle that would be difficult for a computer to solve to try and 
> prove you're not a bot. Today there are very few of those kinds of puzzles. 
> Image and audio recognition are about the only two that haven't been cracked 
> and it's turned into an arms race. Eventually the algorithms will be 
> sophisticated enough that they will either mimic human behavior undetectably 
> or the cognitive load to solve the captchas will increase to the point where 
> real people can't solve them (already happening). Either scenario ends badly 
> for those trying to protect the integrity of their content sites. In the 
> meantime, just saying the current stuff doesn't work doesn't help because 
> nobody has come up with a better solution. Anything that lowers the puzzle 
> difficulty also makes it easier for the algorithms to solve.
> 
> Some previous discussions on this list:
> 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/discuss@macvisionaries.com/msg43663.html
> 
> CB
> 
> On 9/12/11 4:04 AM, Adie wrote:
>> 
>> Guys,
>> 
>> I am fed up of audio captcha. My Member of Parliament currently has a
>> question in to the UK Prime Minister about use of audio capcha on
>> government websites. I know it's a drag, but we need to challenge
>> these things every time we come across them. I was on a site the other
>> day which had a simple equation instead of an audio captcha. It was a
>> joy.
>> 
>> BTW, I love the bit where it says the audio captcha is to test whether
>> or not you are a human being. I always write to them saying that,
>> despite the fact that I can't see, I am nevertheless a human.
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> Adrienne
>> On Sep 11, 9:05 pm, Eric Oyen  wrote:
>>> I find that rather interesting. now why would the general public (and 
>>> business professionals) get the impression that mozilla was the most 
>>> accessible web browser for any OS? sure it works well with windoweeyes and 
>>> jaws in the windows platform. it also works mostly with orca in linux. it 
>>> does not work at all in OS X with voiceover (and I have even tried growl 
>>> with it and still had a lot of issues).
>>> 
>>> I have sent more than a few emails over the last few years and all I get 
>>> back is nothing but a load of crapola and finger pointing. now I know we 
>>> can't prevail upon a bunch of volunteer code monkeys and still have them do 
>>> the work. if they were paid and we wrote the checks, that would certainly 
>>> be a different case.
>>> 
>>> -Eric
>>> On Sep 11, 2011, at 12:43 AM, Rachel magario wrote:>  the sad part is that 
>>> loads of programers think firefox is the most accessible browser out there. 
>>> They get shocked to find it does not work on the mac. I recall a programer 
>>> at my work insisted that I should use mozilla. Only after he tried using it 
>>>  with  vo by him self,  was when the message got across!
> 
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Re: Tax Program

[Dan]

Hello,
Yep. TaxAct, the web based system really does work extremely well. We've been 
using it for the last few years.


Dan

On Sep 12, 2011, at 2:27 PM, Chris Blouch wrote:

> Anyone try taxact.com? It's web based (no download/install) so it might work 
> well.
> 
> CB
> 
> On 9/11/11 10:07 PM, Jon Cohn wrote:
>> I reviewed some of our taxes in Turbo Tax last year using VoiceOver.  I  did 
>> very little data entry, so I am not sure about how well that works, but 
>> TurboTax 2010 certainly was navigatable using VoiceOver, and our family will 
>> be using the 2011 version too, so I can report back on that in a few months.
>> 
>> Jonathan
>> 
>> On Sep 11, 2011, at 3:52 PM, Eugenia Firth wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Guys.
>>> I am planning for next year's taxes. Maybe I am doing something wrong, but 
>>> those pdf files the IRS puts up under those accessible tax forms don't seem 
>>> to be working so well with Preview. I have several on my computer. Does 
>>> anyone I'm going to have a somewhat complicated return this year, so I 
>>> thought I'd do some preparation. know if Turbo Tax for the Mac, for 
>>> instance, is accessible?
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Gigi
>>> 
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Re: Weather / Temperature Apple Script

[Esther]

Hi Chris and Keith,

Chris, that was a clever use of sed and regular expressions to prepend the rate 
argument to the beginning of the text being piped to the say command.  Keith, 
if you want to play around more with the other embedded commands for speech, 
you'll find them in the Apple Developer Connection documentation. The site is:

 

(That's all one line.)  Embedded commands are described in the section titled 
"Techniques for Customizing Synthesized Speech" - > "Use Embedded Speech 
Commands to Fine-Tune Spoken Output.

There are a whole lot of 4 character embedded commands besides the rate command 
that Chris used, and they're all enclosed in a double set of brackets. Here are 
some:

char  speaks the following word letter by letter
cmnt  lets you insert a comment that isn't spoken
ctxt  identifies a context for speech synthesizer pronunciation (I've never 
tried this)
dlim  lets you change the delimiter characters used for embedded speech commands
emph  lets you increase or decrease emphasis of the next word (takes an 
argument of "+" or "-")
inpt  lets you change the pronunciation model from straight text to options 
like phonetic (takes an argument)
nmbr  lets you speak numbers digit by digit if you use the LTRL argument 
instead of NORM
pbas  changes current speech pitch (takes an argument with "+" or "-")
pmod  changes pitch modulation range (takes an argument with "+' or "-")
rate  sets the speaking rate; can be used either with a value or by increasing 
or decreasing (with "+" or "-")
rset  resets speech parameters to default values (may need to be "rset 0")
slnc  lets you add a period of silence (takes an argument)
volm  lets you set or increase/decrease volume (takes an argument)

There are a few more sequences described in the document for fancier functions. 

HTH.  Cheers,

Esther

On Sep 12, 2011, at 11:00, Chris Blouch wrote:

> Just tried is on Snow Leopard and got an error on the -r argument so it must 
> be new to Lion. For non-lion users I managed to prepending the rate command 
> to the text using sed which worked fine:
> 
> curl -s 
> http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=33617 | 
> grep -A 2 tempActual | textutil -convert txt -stdin -stdout -format html | 
> sed "s/^/[[rate 900]]/" | say
> 
> CB
> 
> On 9/11/11 5:43 PM, Keith Watson wrote:
>> 
>> Ester,
>> 
>> I did not know that the rate switch was not available in earlier versions of 
>> OSX. I actually found it by…wait for it…RTFMing. . Doing a man 
>> on say gave me all that info. The value for the rate is in words per minute 
>> according to the man page. Quite frankly I think they are full of it because 
>> I set it to 1000 and was able to understand every word. Maybe Alex tops out 
>> at around 600 or so.
>> 
>> Anyway, having fun playing around with all this myself. Now if only I could 
>> get Tessa to cook me a nice dinner I would be in heaven.
>> 
>> Keith
>> 
>> On Sep 11, 2011, at 1:19 PM, Esther wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Keith,
>>> 
>>> I'll just add that if you want the say command in your AppleScript to 
>>> announce the temperature in another voice, you can also set that as an 
>>> argument and use any of your installed system voices (including the InfoVox 
>>> voices if you have them).  For example, if you're a French user in Snow 
>>> Leopard with the InfoVox French voice you could change the last part of 
>>> that shell script to a pipe to  "say -v Alice", for example, or other valid 
>>> voice on your system.  It looks as though there's an extra argument to the 
>>> "say" command in Lion that is not in Snow Leopard.  Does the "r" switch 
>>> allow you to specify a speech rate?  (That's not something you can do in 
>>> earlier versions of Mac OS X.)
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> Esther
>>> 
>>> On Sep 11, 2011, at 05:27, Keith Watson wrote:
>>> 
 All,
 
 Like Scott said, this was an exercise in learning Apple Script and to 
 facilitate the request of another list member. They did not want all the 
 information that the weather widget gave. All they wanted was the outside 
 temperature. If the weather widget works for you then by all means 
 continue to use it and ignore this thread. I could really give a crap if 
 you like or dislike the way myself or others wish to garner our 
 information.
 
 So with that said, I have found that there is a way to do this with curl. 
 Open your Apple Script editor and copy the following line into it. With 
 this code you do not have to install Xcode or Mac Ports. And in the 
 interest of full disclosure, I am also going to post the original Mac 
 Hints snippet in case anyone is interested in whether or not it's going to 
 be hotter today than yesterday. Oh and as before, make sure you
  substitute 33617 with your own zip  code.
 
 *** Code start

Re: solving visual captchas with mac and safari

[Rachel magario]

I second that. We cannot nearly request that security be lowered for our sake. 
I believe your explanations are very educative, specially to those who are not 
aware of the difficulties developers face. However, I feel there is a place 
also for the expression of the frustrations with in reason, because is from 
those frustrations that designers can understand unmet needs. The ideas and 
potential solutions can only spring from good conversations such as the one we 
are having.! I love this list. Never seen more civilize people working 
together. 
Only harmony can bring productive results, and I think it is awesome having 
awesome knowledge as everyone here with their experiences. Thanks Chris and 
every one. Keep your comments coming!
Cheer up,
RM
On Sep 12, 2011, at 2:39 PM, Chris Blouch wrote:

> It all comes down to the purpose of captcha. It is a cognitive test by 
> supplying a puzzle that would be difficult for a computer to solve to try and 
> prove you're not a bot. Today there are very few of those kinds of puzzles. 
> Image and audio recognition are about the only two that haven't been cracked 
> and it's turned into an arms race. Eventually the algorithms will be 
> sophisticated enough that they will either mimic human behavior undetectably 
> or the cognitive load to solve the captchas will increase to the point where 
> real people can't solve them (already happening). Either scenario ends badly 
> for those trying to protect the integrity of their content sites. In the 
> meantime, just saying the current stuff doesn't work doesn't help because 
> nobody has come up with a better solution. Anything that lowers the puzzle 
> difficulty also makes it easier for the algorithms to solve.
> 
> Some previous discussions on this list:
> 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/discuss@macvisionaries.com/msg43663.html
> 
> CB
> 
> On 9/12/11 4:04 AM, Adie wrote:
>> 
>> Guys,
>> 
>> I am fed up of audio captcha. My Member of Parliament currently has a
>> question in to the UK Prime Minister about use of audio capcha on
>> government websites. I know it's a drag, but we need to challenge
>> these things every time we come across them. I was on a site the other
>> day which had a simple equation instead of an audio captcha. It was a
>> joy.
>> 
>> BTW, I love the bit where it says the audio captcha is to test whether
>> or not you are a human being. I always write to them saying that,
>> despite the fact that I can't see, I am nevertheless a human.
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> Adrienne
>> On Sep 11, 9:05 pm, Eric Oyen  wrote:
>>> I find that rather interesting. now why would the general public (and 
>>> business professionals) get the impression that mozilla was the most 
>>> accessible web browser for any OS? sure it works well with windoweeyes and 
>>> jaws in the windows platform. it also works mostly with orca in linux. it 
>>> does not work at all in OS X with voiceover (and I have even tried growl 
>>> with it and still had a lot of issues).
>>> 
>>> I have sent more than a few emails over the last few years and all I get 
>>> back is nothing but a load of crapola and finger pointing. now I know we 
>>> can't prevail upon a bunch of volunteer code monkeys and still have them do 
>>> the work. if they were paid and we wrote the checks, that would certainly 
>>> be a different case.
>>> 
>>> -Eric
>>> On Sep 11, 2011, at 12:43 AM, Rachel magario wrote:>  the sad part is that 
>>> loads of programers think firefox is the most accessible browser out there. 
>>> They get shocked to find it does not work on the mac. I recall a programer 
>>> at my work insisted that I should use mozilla. Only after he tried using it 
>>>  with  vo by him self,  was when the message got across!
> 
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Re: Tax Program

[Chris Blouch]

Anyone try taxact.com? It's web based (no download/install) so it might 
work well.


CB

On 9/11/11 10:07 PM, Jon Cohn wrote:

I reviewed some of our taxes in Turbo Tax last year using VoiceOver.  I  did 
very little data entry, so I am not sure about how well that works, but 
TurboTax 2010 certainly was navigatable using VoiceOver, and our family will be 
using the 2011 version too, so I can report back on that in a few months.

Jonathan

On Sep 11, 2011, at 3:52 PM, Eugenia Firth wrote:


Hi Guys.
I am planning for next year's taxes. Maybe I am doing something wrong, but 
those pdf files the IRS puts up under those accessible tax forms don't seem to 
be working so well with Preview. I have several on my computer. Does anyone I'm 
going to have a somewhat complicated return this year, so I thought I'd do some 
preparation. know if Turbo Tax for the Mac, for instance, is accessible?

Regards,
Gigi

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Re: is this a script guys?

[Chris Blouch]

Looks like a shell script. You should be able to run it from the 
terminal. Mmight have to set permissions on it before it will let you. 
So if the file is on your desktop and named uninstall.txt then from 
terminal you would do something like:


cd Desktop
chmod a+x uninstall.txt
./uninstall.txt

Hope that works. It might prompt you for your root password since it's 
running the sudo command (super user do).


CB

On 9/12/11 10:46 AM, Paul Erkens wrote:

Hi list,

I was once using a usb dongle modem to connect to 3g to have wireless internet. 
But no more. However, I would like to uninstall the driver for this modem. I 
got a text file with it, but can I run this, or what should I do with this one? 
Here is the file. Interested to see if you know how to handle it.
#Uninstaller of ZTE Datacard Drver in Mac OS X
#Copyright ZTE Corporation 2006 - 2010
echo "Welcome to use ZTE Datacard."
echo "Now, begining to uninstall ZTE Datacard driver.."

sudo kextunload -v /System/Library/Extensions/ZTEUSBCDCACMData.kext
sudo kextunload -v /System/Library/Extensions/ZTEUSBCDCACMControl.kext


sudo rm -r -f /Library/Modem\ Scripts/ZTE\ USB\ MODEM
sudo rm -r -f /Application/MiniUI
sudo rm -r -f /System/Library/Extensions/ZTEUSBCDCACMData.kext
sudo rm -r -f /System/Library/Extensions/ZTEUSBCDCACMControl.kext

sudo rm -r -f /System/Library/Extensions.kextcache
sudo rm -r -f /System/Library/Extensions.mkext
sudo rm -r -f /System/Library/Caches/com.apple.kernelcaches/
sudo rm -r -f /Library/Receipts/ZTEDatacardDriverInstaller.pkg

echo "..ZTE Datacard driver has Uninstalled successfully."

Greetings and thanks a lot for possible help.
Paul.




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Re: Weather / Temperature Apple Script

[Chris Blouch]

Just tried is on Snow Leopard and got an error on the -r argument so it 
must be new to Lion. For non-lion users I managed to prepending the rate 
command to the text using sed which worked fine:


curl -s 
http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=33617 
| grep -A 2 tempActual | textutil -convert txt -stdin -stdout -format 
html | sed "s/^/[[rate 900]]/" | say


CB

On 9/11/11 5:43 PM, Keith Watson wrote:

Ester,

I did not know that the rate switch was not available in earlier 
versions of OSX. I actually found it by…wait for it…RTFMing. . 
Doing a man on say gave me all that info. The value for the rate is in 
words per minute according to the man page. Quite frankly I think they 
are full of it because I set it to 1000 and was able to understand 
every word. Maybe Alex tops out at around 600 or so.


Anyway, having fun playing around with all this myself. Now if only I 
could get Tessa to cook me a nice dinner I would be in heaven.


Keith

On Sep 11, 2011, at 1:19 PM, Esther wrote:


Hi Keith,

I'll just add that if you want the say command in your AppleScript to 
announce the temperature in another voice, you can also set that as 
an argument and use any of your installed system voices (including 
the InfoVox voices if you have them).  For example, if you're a 
French user in Snow Leopard with the InfoVox French voice you could 
change the last part of that shell script to a pipe to  "say -v 
Alice", for example, or other valid voice on your system.  It looks 
as though there's an extra argument to the "say" command in Lion that 
is not in Snow Leopard.  Does the "r" switch allow you to specify a 
speech rate?  (That's not something you can do in earlier versions of 
Mac OS X.)


Cheers,

Esther

On Sep 11, 2011, at 05:27, Keith Watson wrote:


All,

Like Scott said, this was an exercise in learning Apple Script and 
to facilitate the request of another list member. They did not want 
all the information that the weather widget gave. All they wanted 
was the outside temperature. If the weather widget works for you 
then by all means continue to use it and ignore this thread. I could 
really give a crap if you like or dislike the way myself or others 
wish to garner our information.


So with that said, I have found that there is a way to do this with 
curl. Open your Apple Script editor and copy the following line into 
it. With this code you do not have to install Xcode or Mac Ports. 
And in the interest of full disclosure, I am also going to post the 
original Mac Hints snippet in case anyone is interested in whether 
or not it's going to be hotter today than yesterday. Oh and as 
before, make sure you substitute 33617 with your own zip  code.


*** Code starts on next line ***
*do shell script* "curl -s 
http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=33617 
| grep -A 2 tempActual | textutil -convert txt -stdin -stdout 
-format html | say -r 400"

*** Code ends here ***

Original Mac Hints code, with a pipe to say added by me.

*** Code starts on next line. ***
*do shell script* "curl -s 
http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=33617 
| awk '/Today is/ || /Tomorrow is/' | textutil -convert txt -stdin 
-stdout -format html | say -r 400"

*** Code ends here. ***


If you have any problems or suggestions, please don;t hesitate to 
ask or criticize. I personally find that this method is slower than 
the other way, but it does not require any additional installs.


Have fun.

Keith
On Sep 11, 2011, at 8:20 AM, Scott Howell wrote:

Donna, you are making the assumption that someone would always have 
that widget always in focus. This may be a lot of work for you, but 
the ends justifies the means. Your entitled to your opinion of 
course; however, aside from the learning opportunity, you still are 
assuming that this widget is always going to be in focus. FOr me I 
always have the calendar available. Another point here to keep in 
mind is that you cannot control the sources of the weather widget; 
however, this script could conceivably be used to pull weather data 
from nearly any source. In fact you could even have your own 
weather station and use such a script to capture the information 
from that weather station.

On Sep 11, 2011, at 8:14 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

True, it is a learning opportunity.  though to me it seems like a 
lot of work just to duplicate something that already exists on the 
Mac.  Just my $.02.

Cheers,
donna

On Sep 11, 2011, at 8:09 AM, Scott Howell wrote:

What amazes me is that some missed the point of the script. 
Ricardo points out that hitting f12 drops him on the weather 
widget  and that is just great; however, not everyone has that 
particular item there at all times. iN fact I tend to keep the 
calendar widget as the one with focus. The other point some have 
missed here is the learning opportunity of how such scripts could 
be very useful. Perhaps there are other ways to accomplish the 
same task, but

Re: solving visual captchas with mac and safari

[Chris Blouch]

It all comes down to the purpose of captcha. It is a cognitive test by 
supplying a puzzle that would be difficult for a computer to solve to 
try and prove you're not a bot. Today there are very few of those kinds 
of puzzles. Image and audio recognition are about the only two that 
haven't been cracked and it's turned into an arms race. Eventually the 
algorithms will be sophisticated enough that they will either mimic 
human behavior undetectably or the cognitive load to solve the captchas 
will increase to the point where real people can't solve them (already 
happening). Either scenario ends badly for those trying to protect the 
integrity of their content sites. In the meantime, just saying the 
current stuff doesn't work doesn't help because nobody has come up with 
a better solution. Anything that lowers the puzzle difficulty also makes 
it easier for the algorithms to solve.


Some previous discussions on this list:

http://www.mail-archive.com/discuss@macvisionaries.com/msg43663.html

CB

On 9/12/11 4:04 AM, Adie wrote:


Guys,

I am fed up of audio captcha. My Member of Parliament currently has a
question in to the UK Prime Minister about use of audio capcha on
government websites. I know it's a drag, but we need to challenge
these things every time we come across them. I was on a site the other
day which had a simple equation instead of an audio captcha. It was a
joy.

BTW, I love the bit where it says the audio captcha is to test whether
or not you are a human being. I always write to them saying that,
despite the fact that I can't see, I am nevertheless a human.

Cheers

Adrienne
On Sep 11, 9:05 pm, Eric Oyen  wrote:

I find that rather interesting. now why would the general public (and business 
professionals) get the impression that mozilla was the most accessible web 
browser for any OS? sure it works well with windoweeyes and jaws in the windows 
platform. it also works mostly with orca in linux. it does not work at all in 
OS X with voiceover (and I have even tried growl with it and still had a lot of 
issues).

I have sent more than a few emails over the last few years and all I get back 
is nothing but a load of crapola and finger pointing. now I know we can't 
prevail upon a bunch of volunteer code monkeys and still have them do the work. 
if they were paid and we wrote the checks, that would certainly be a different 
case.

-Eric
On Sep 11, 2011, at 12:43 AM, Rachel magario wrote:>  the sad part is that 
loads of programers think firefox is the most accessible browser out there. They 
get shocked to find it does not work on the mac. I recall a programer at my work 
insisted that I should use mozilla. Only after he tried using it  with  vo by him 
self,  was when the message got across!


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Re: solving visual captchas with mac and safari

[Rachel magario]

same of what happened to me.
going to try crom next.
thanks,
Rachel
On Sep 12, 2011, at 2:04 PM, Chris Blouch wrote:

> Just downloaded and tried Opera 11.51 and didn't get very far. On really 
> simple test pages I could navigate to some items but on others I got busy, VO 
> crash or seemed to get stuck or just say "empty web area" when it should have 
> been reading content. So that was a waste of time. WebAIM describes Opera as 
> 'limited support'
> 
> http://webaim.org/articles/voiceover/
> 
> Is it possible to share the URLs you are having the crashes on?
> 
> CB
> 
> On 9/11/11 3:28 AM, Rachel magario wrote:
>> Chris,
>> 
>> Have you used opera? I installed, but could not make it read pages, I can 
>> read the bar and stuff, but not page content, do you think I might be 
>> missing some information?
>> Also, I have the webkit installed, and safari keeps on crashing in several 
>> pages I need to view when hovering over a certain type of content that I 
>> cannot pin down exactly what it is. But if I use a sighted people's mac that 
>> does not have any thing, safari does not seem to crash in the same pages. Do 
>> you think it is one of those cases, of things that are broken with the 
>> webkit?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Rachel.
>> On Sep 10, 2011, at 9:22 PM, Chris Blouch wrote:
>> 
>>> Safari is the primary browser for OSX but some people have found that the 
>>> nightly build of Webkit (the engine of Safari)vhas less issues. Of course 
>>> nightly build means each day some stuff is fixed but other stuff might be 
>>> broken. You might also try Chrome which is supposed to be accessible with 
>>> voiceover as well as Opera. I wrote a while ago about the problem with 
>>> competing accessibility API standards which is why Firefox and Flash will 
>>> not be accessible on Mac (they chose one standard and Apple chose to make 
>>> their own). Same thing with Thunderbird email client.
>>> 
>>> CB
>>> 
>>> On 9/10/11 9:06 PM, Christine Grassman wrote:
 Great. I was thinking of trying Firefox, because I'm bloody sick of 
 hearing "Safari busy" -- particularly when I'm on my bank's web site 
 paying my bills. What are others using besides SAfari?
 On Sep 10, 2011, at 8:56 PM, Jon Cohn wrote:
 
> Well, I have managed to avoid these things, but if it helps keyboard 
> commander is set up by default in Snow Leopard to have left-option-X send 
> the image in the VOICE-OVER cursor via mail.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Jonathan
> On Sep 10, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Anouk Radix wrote:
> 
>> Hi everyone, On the pc I could solve visual only captchas with either 
>> solona and ie (but often there was no operator online) or webvisum and 
>> firefox. Is there a way to solve visual captchas as a blind person on 
>> the mac? As far as I know firefox is still not accessible on the mac.
>> Thanks in advance
>> Greetings, Anouk,
>> 
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Re: solving visual captchas with mac and safari

[Rachel magario]

Agree Chris,

I work with developers every day, as well ass with the business side. the true 
is that there is always things to implement. but I really think the matter is 
philosophical, if in matter of principal accessibility was there as a principal 
from the start of RND and in the business side and in the design/development 
process from the conception, accessibility would be less of a burden and not a 
matter of adding on.
I am just glad Apple chose to have accessibility as both a Marketing strategy 
as a rnd principal.
Hope others would take a similar approach.
Cheer up,
Rachel
On Sep 12, 2011, at 2:15 PM, Chris Blouch wrote:

> As I had mentioned in previous emails, the root issue is a philisophical one. 
> Good app developers want to write their code once. So when it came to 
> accessibility the Mozilla folks went to the open standard IAccessible2 APIs.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAccessible2
> 
> That way any platform that went with this standard would get accessibility 
> and any platform "could" implement the standard if they wanted to. So Windows 
> and Linux did and Mozilla's apps are accessible there. Apple has implemented 
> their own accessibility API and basically told Mozilla to re-implement to 
> Apple's standards. Mozilla has refused saying Apple should just implement 
> IAccessible2. And so here we are with no accessibility because both sides 
> insist the other needs to do the work. I can't really blame Mozilla for 
> saying Apple should implement the open APIs for accessibility. At the same 
> time I'm sure Apple thinks their APIs are better and Mozilla just needs to 
> get with the program if they want to join the Apple ecosphere.
> 
> Not sure how many of you have actually worked with developers to get them to 
> do stuff to make their apps accessible but I'd say most just devs are unaware 
> or it isn't as high a priority as just getting the new features done. I 
> assume both Apple and Mozilla's engineers are of a similar bent that they 
> have 50 features to implement with time for only 10 and coming to them with 
> requests to drop more features to work on accessibility is a tough sell. That 
> said, Mozilla is open source so anyone who wants to could do the coding. I 
> think IBM funneled some money to Mozilla to make the IAccessible2 stuff 
> happen and I imagine Apple could do the same, but probably wont.
> 
> CB
> 
> On 9/11/11 4:05 PM, Eric Oyen wrote:
>> I find that rather interesting. now why would the general public (and 
>> business professionals) get the impression that mozilla was the most 
>> accessible web browser for any OS? sure it works well with windoweeyes and 
>> jaws in the windows platform. it also works mostly with orca in linux. it 
>> does not work at all in OS X with voiceover (and I have even tried growl 
>> with it and still had a lot of issues).
>> 
>> I have sent more than a few emails over the last few years and all I get 
>> back is nothing but a load of crapola and finger pointing. now I know we 
>> can't prevail upon a bunch of volunteer code monkeys and still have them do 
>> the work. if they were paid and we wrote the checks, that would certainly be 
>> a different case.
>> 
>> -Eric
>> On Sep 11, 2011, at 12:43 AM, Rachel magario wrote:
>> 
>>> the sad part is that loads of programers think firefox is the most 
>>> accessible browser out there. They get shocked to find it does not work on 
>>> the mac. I recall a programer at my work insisted that I should use 
>>> mozilla. Only after he tried using it  with  vo by him self,  was when the 
>>> message got across!
>>> 
> 
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Re: solving visual captchas with mac and safari

[Chris Blouch]

As I had mentioned in previous emails, the root issue is a philisophical 
one. Good app developers want to write their code once. So when it came 
to accessibility the Mozilla folks went to the open standard 
IAccessible2 APIs.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAccessible2

That way any platform that went with this standard would get 
accessibility and any platform "could" implement the standard if they 
wanted to. So Windows and Linux did and Mozilla's apps are accessible 
there. Apple has implemented their own accessibility API and basically 
told Mozilla to re-implement to Apple's standards. Mozilla has refused 
saying Apple should just implement IAccessible2. And so here we are with 
no accessibility because both sides insist the other needs to do the 
work. I can't really blame Mozilla for saying Apple should implement the 
open APIs for accessibility. At the same time I'm sure Apple thinks 
their APIs are better and Mozilla just needs to get with the program if 
they want to join the Apple ecosphere.


Not sure how many of you have actually worked with developers to get 
them to do stuff to make their apps accessible but I'd say most just 
devs are unaware or it isn't as high a priority as just getting the new 
features done. I assume both Apple and Mozilla's engineers are of a 
similar bent that they have 50 features to implement with time for only 
10 and coming to them with requests to drop more features to work on 
accessibility is a tough sell. That said, Mozilla is open source so 
anyone who wants to could do the coding. I think IBM funneled some money 
to Mozilla to make the IAccessible2 stuff happen and I imagine Apple 
could do the same, but probably wont.


CB

On 9/11/11 4:05 PM, Eric Oyen wrote:

I find that rather interesting. now why would the general public (and business 
professionals) get the impression that mozilla was the most accessible web 
browser for any OS? sure it works well with windoweeyes and jaws in the windows 
platform. it also works mostly with orca in linux. it does not work at all in 
OS X with voiceover (and I have even tried growl with it and still had a lot of 
issues).

I have sent more than a few emails over the last few years and all I get back 
is nothing but a load of crapola and finger pointing. now I know we can't 
prevail upon a bunch of volunteer code monkeys and still have them do the work. 
if they were paid and we wrote the checks, that would certainly be a different 
case.

-Eric
On Sep 11, 2011, at 12:43 AM, Rachel magario wrote:


the sad part is that loads of programers think firefox is the most accessible 
browser out there. They get shocked to find it does not work on the mac. I 
recall a programer at my work insisted that I should use mozilla. Only after he 
tried using it  with  vo by him self,  was when the message got across!



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Re: solving visual captchas with mac and safari

[Chris Blouch]

Just downloaded and tried Opera 11.51 and didn't get very far. On really 
simple test pages I could navigate to some items but on others I got 
busy, VO crash or seemed to get stuck or just say "empty web area" when 
it should have been reading content. So that was a waste of time. WebAIM 
describes Opera as 'limited support'


http://webaim.org/articles/voiceover/

Is it possible to share the URLs you are having the crashes on?

CB

On 9/11/11 3:28 AM, Rachel magario wrote:

Chris,

Have you used opera? I installed, but could not make it read pages, I can read 
the bar and stuff, but not page content, do you think I might be missing some 
information?
Also, I have the webkit installed, and safari keeps on crashing in several 
pages I need to view when hovering over a certain type of content that I cannot 
pin down exactly what it is. But if I use a sighted people's mac that does not 
have any thing, safari does not seem to crash in the same pages. Do you think 
it is one of those cases, of things that are broken with the webkit?

Thanks,
Rachel.
On Sep 10, 2011, at 9:22 PM, Chris Blouch wrote:


Safari is the primary browser for OSX but some people have found that the 
nightly build of Webkit (the engine of Safari)vhas less issues. Of course 
nightly build means each day some stuff is fixed but other stuff might be 
broken. You might also try Chrome which is supposed to be accessible with 
voiceover as well as Opera. I wrote a while ago about the problem with 
competing accessibility API standards which is why Firefox and Flash will not 
be accessible on Mac (they chose one standard and Apple chose to make their 
own). Same thing with Thunderbird email client.

CB

On 9/10/11 9:06 PM, Christine Grassman wrote:

Great. I was thinking of trying Firefox, because I'm bloody sick of hearing "Safari 
busy" -- particularly when I'm on my bank's web site paying my bills. What are 
others using besides SAfari?
On Sep 10, 2011, at 8:56 PM, Jon Cohn wrote:


Well, I have managed to avoid these things, but if it helps keyboard commander 
is set up by default in Snow Leopard to have left-option-X send the image in 
the VOICE-OVER cursor via mail.

Best wishes,

Jonathan
On Sep 10, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Anouk Radix wrote:


Hi everyone, On the pc I could solve visual only captchas with either solona 
and ie (but often there was no operator online) or webvisum and firefox. Is 
there a way to solve visual captchas as a blind person on the mac? As far as I 
know firefox is still not accessible on the mac.
Thanks in advance
Greetings, Anouk,

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[no subject]

[Matthew Janusauskas]

Matthew Janusauskas
HumanWare
P.O. Box 800 1 UPS Way Champlain, NY 12919 USA 
T. 800-722-3393 ext. 204
F. +1 888 871 4828
www.humanware.com 
. 
The power is in your hands 


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Re: Apple to the core: episode 4. selecting text on webpages

[Ricardo Walker]

Sure,

Here you go.

pcast://feeds.feedburner.com/MAChat

hth

Ricardo Walker
rwalker...@gmail.com
Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
www.mobileaccess.org

On Sep 12, 2011, at 11:45 AM, Paul Erkens wrote:

> Hi Ricardo,
> Is there a way to subscribe to any future podcasts you do in itunes?
> 
> On Sep 11, 2011, at 11:13 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
> 
>> Yeah,  That works.  The problem with this method is, you can only select 
>> what is in the voiceover cursor.  It can get tedious jumping from spot to 
>> spot copying and pasting.
>> 
>> 
>> Ricardo Walker
>> rwalker...@gmail.com
>> Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
>> www.mobileaccess.org
>> 
>> On Sep 11, 2011, at 5:06 PM, Cody wrote:
>> 
>>> Yup basically in short you can use vo plus enter to begin selection and use 
>>> the arrow keys and then press vo plus enter again to stop selection and 
>>> press control c
>>> On Sep 11, 2011, at 3:04 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>>> 
 Hi folks,
 
 I've come up with a fairly easy way to select text on webpages using Lion. 
  I haven't tried it but, I think the same method will also work on snow 
 leopard.  You can listen to me show how to do this at
 http://goo.gl/EY1eP
 
 hth
 
 Ricardo Walker
 rwalker...@gmail.com
 Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
 www.mobileaccess.org
 
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Re: pages and websites

[Rachel magario]

Excellent, let me know if you need hosting too, I can probably guide you to the 
most accessible one.
Cheers,
Rachel.


On Sep 12, 2011, at 10:14 AM, Anouk Radix wrote:

> Hey, thanks this is really cool news, i will write you off list once i found 
> where i can see osmones email address in mail.
> Oh i remembered how to do the hting in pages command-up and i presume 
> ocmmand-down is for end of document. Once i started reading documents it came 
> back to me.
> At first i had difficulty reading documents with my braille display but you 
> just have tointeract once with the document and then it is fine.
> Greetings, Anouk,
> On Sep 12, 2011, at 5:00 PM, Rachel magario wrote:
> 
>> Anouk,
>> 
>> You don't need to have a blog name on the web site, it can look just like a 
>> web site, no body will even know that word press is hosting it. Do you have 
>> a domain and a server?
>> If you want more info on this, I can help you, just write to me off list, 
>> since I don't want to make huge threads about how to make simple web site, 
>> might be a bit out off topic?
>> I mean, if others are interested that is fine, but I am not sure, if this 
>> falls list guidelines, i confess I did not read the rules! ;)
>> Rachel
>> On Sep 12, 2011, at 9:52 AM, Anouk Radix wrote:
>> 
>>> Hey, thanks a lot, i think i will indeed end up doing somehting like 
>>> wordpress. I would not like though having a blogging name in the website 
>>> url, still its probbably the easiest.
>>> Greetings, Anouk,
>>> On Sep 12, 2011, at 2:41 PM, Rachel magario wrote:
>>> 
 Anouk,
 
 Are you going to be changing your content in a regular bases? Most pages 
 now do, so if you are, I suggest you use word press. Even though it is a 
 bloging platform, can also be  used as a  regular web page builder. In 
 addition, the learning curve to learn the system is not big at all. It is 
 also fairly accessible, not 100%, but decent.
 
 If I remember correct, web.com was fairly accessible, but I have not used 
 that in a while. The issue there is I think I couldn't  use my own domain, 
 probably that is why I left. I am sure by now this must be an option.
 
 Iweb, can be used, but requires sighted help to learn the environment and 
 take loads of memorization. Plus the audio feedback for the visual display 
 is almost none. I would say, to much trouble for little return. Also the 
 templates have no names, just random numbers.
 I have not tried dream weaver in the mac yet, But if it is like most adobe 
 products I need to use, not much joy in there. Although the old 
 dreamweaver 8 in windows let you do simple pages with jaws without a whole 
 lots of issues. But requires lots of attention of where you put your 
 mouse. I would never up load a page without visual feedback first, just in 
 case. Cant tell you how cs5 works with either mac or windows.
 
 HTH,
 Rachel
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 On Sep 12, 2011, at 1:10 AM, Anouk Radix wrote:
 
> Thanks a great deal. I will try it.
> I basically need some kind of wizard interface which allows you to create 
> a webpage even when you don't know html.
> Thanks,
> Greetings, Anouk,
> On Sep 12, 2011, at 4:13 AM, Jon Cohn wrote:
> 
>> Sorry for the additional post, my last one was a bit unclear.
>> 
>> There is a program called sandvox sandbox but the b as in bravo has been 
>> changed to a v as in Victor.  This program seems to allow some 
>> interesting HTNL editing, but I did not spend much time on it.  You can 
>> download it for free, and I believe it is shareware.
>> 
>> Jonathan
>> 
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Re: solving visual captchas with mac and safari

[Teresa Cochran]

That's so great. :) More of those, please! :)

Teresa
On Sep 12, 2011, at 6:58 AM, Maxwell Ivey Jr. wrote:

> recently while submitting my rss feed to a new directory i ran across a 
> captcha i had never heard of before.  it gave you a list of six check boxes 
> and asked you to check which ones were birds.  I liked it so much i went back 
> to see what would happen. the next time it asked which of the six were 
> continents.  very cool.  good luck fighting the beasties, max
> On Sep 12, 2011, at 3:04 AM, Adie wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Guys,
>> 
>> I am fed up of audio captcha. My Member of Parliament currently has a
>> question in to the UK Prime Minister about use of audio capcha on
>> government websites. I know it's a drag, but we need to challenge
>> these things every time we come across them. I was on a site the other
>> day which had a simple equation instead of an audio captcha. It was a
>> joy.
>> 
>> BTW, I love the bit where it says the audio captcha is to test whether
>> or not you are a human being. I always write to them saying that,
>> despite the fact that I can't see, I am nevertheless a human.
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> Adrienne
>> On Sep 11, 9:05 pm, Eric Oyen  wrote:
>>> I find that rather interesting. now why would the general public (and 
>>> business professionals) get the impression that mozilla was the most 
>>> accessible web browser for any OS? sure it works well with windoweeyes and 
>>> jaws in the windows platform. it also works mostly with orca in linux. it 
>>> does not work at all in OS X with voiceover (and I have even tried growl 
>>> with it and still had a lot of issues).
>>> 
>>> I have sent more than a few emails over the last few years and all I get 
>>> back is nothing but a load of crapola and finger pointing. now I know we 
>>> can't prevail upon a bunch of volunteer code monkeys and still have them do 
>>> the work. if they were paid and we wrote the checks, that would certainly 
>>> be a different case.
>>> 
>>> -Eric
>>> On Sep 11, 2011, at 12:43 AM, Rachel magario wrote:> the sad part is that 
>>> loads of programers think firefox is the most accessible browser out there. 
>>> They get shocked to find it does not work on the mac. I recall a programer 
>>> at my work insisted that I should use mozilla. Only after he tried using it 
>>>  with  vo by him self,  was when the message got across!
>> 
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Re: solving visual captchas with mac and safari

[Teresa Cochran]

Yes, Wordpress uses the equations for capchas on their sites. I love this kind 
of solution, being accessible to all, or at least more folks.

Teresa
On Sep 12, 2011, at 1:04 AM, Adie wrote:

> 
> 
> Guys,
> 
> I am fed up of audio captcha. My Member of Parliament currently has a
> question in to the UK Prime Minister about use of audio capcha on
> government websites. I know it's a drag, but we need to challenge
> these things every time we come across them. I was on a site the other
> day which had a simple equation instead of an audio captcha. It was a
> joy.
> 
> BTW, I love the bit where it says the audio captcha is to test whether
> or not you are a human being. I always write to them saying that,
> despite the fact that I can't see, I am nevertheless a human.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Adrienne
> On Sep 11, 9:05 pm, Eric Oyen  wrote:
>> I find that rather interesting. now why would the general public (and 
>> business professionals) get the impression that mozilla was the most 
>> accessible web browser for any OS? sure it works well with windoweeyes and 
>> jaws in the windows platform. it also works mostly with orca in linux. it 
>> does not work at all in OS X with voiceover (and I have even tried growl 
>> with it and still had a lot of issues).
>> 
>> I have sent more than a few emails over the last few years and all I get 
>> back is nothing but a load of crapola and finger pointing. now I know we 
>> can't prevail upon a bunch of volunteer code monkeys and still have them do 
>> the work. if they were paid and we wrote the checks, that would certainly be 
>> a different case.
>> 
>> -Eric
>> On Sep 11, 2011, at 12:43 AM, Rachel magario wrote:> the sad part is that 
>> loads of programers think firefox is the most accessible browser out there. 
>> They get shocked to find it does not work on the mac. I recall a programer 
>> at my work insisted that I should use mozilla. Only after he tried using it  
>> with  vo by him self,  was when the message got across!
> 
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Re: reading pdfs in preview

[Jürgen Fleger]

Hi Anouk,

play with the view options. Here you can adjust single pages. Find out what 
works for you.

All the best
Jürgen
Am 12.09.2011 um 13:46 schrieb Anouk Radix:

> Hi everyone, I just tried reading a pdf in preview but had little success. I 
> can copy the whole document and past it in pages to read but i was wondering 
> if its possible to read a multipage document in preview or if I can only copy 
> the whole text?
> Thanks,
> Greetings, Anouk,
> 
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Re: Difficulty reading a pdf manual in the viewer

[Jürgen Fleger]

Hi Paul,

you'll find the Amadeus documentation in Macintosh HD / Library / Application 
Support / Amadeus.
Wen I open that file with Preview I have no difficulties reading it line by 
line. Just interact with the text area and use VO + arrow up and down.
Play with the viw options a little bit and find out what suits you the best. 
Then you'll find out how to get an index if available. 
The only issue I have with Preview is to read a text continuously by pressing 
VO + a. 

All the best 
Jürgen
Am 12.09.2011 um 06:12 schrieb Paul Henrichsen:

> Hi, guys. I'm having difficulty figuring out how to read a pdf manual in the 
> viewer. Particularly, I am trying to read the Amadeus manual. I can't figure 
> out how to read it line by line like I would do in windows by pressing down 
> arrow. I have tried interacting with the text, but it seems that VO right 
> arrow is the only way to read anything. What if you wanted to quickly peruse 
> a manual by page without doing a search? If you find something in the table 
> of contents, is there a way to jump to that particular section?
> I'm not even sure where the manual was stored. I would have thought it would 
> have been in the documents folder, but it doesn't appear to be there. The 
> only way I can get to it is through the help menu.
> Reading documentation seems much harder on the mac than under windows.
> Any help would be appreciated.
> Thanks.
> 
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Re: Apple to the core: episode 4. selecting text on webpages

[Paul Erkens]

Hi Ricardo,
Is there a way to subscribe to any future podcasts you do in itunes?

On Sep 11, 2011, at 11:13 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:

> Yeah,  That works.  The problem with this method is, you can only select what 
> is in the voiceover cursor.  It can get tedious jumping from spot to spot 
> copying and pasting.
> 
> 
> Ricardo Walker
> rwalker...@gmail.com
> Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
> www.mobileaccess.org
> 
> On Sep 11, 2011, at 5:06 PM, Cody wrote:
> 
>> Yup basically in short you can use vo plus enter to begin selection and use 
>> the arrow keys and then press vo plus enter again to stop selection and 
>> press control c
>> On Sep 11, 2011, at 3:04 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi folks,
>>> 
>>> I've come up with a fairly easy way to select text on webpages using Lion.  
>>> I haven't tried it but, I think the same method will also work on snow 
>>> leopard.  You can listen to me show how to do this at
>>> http://goo.gl/EY1eP
>>> 
>>> hth
>>> 
>>> Ricardo Walker
>>> rwalker...@gmail.com
>>> Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
>>> www.mobileaccess.org
>>> 
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Re: grade 2 Braille files

[Teresa Cochran]

Sorry for the confusion. I do not read grade 2 files on my IPod. You can read 
content in contracted Braille view on the IPod, but not translated grade 2 
files, i.e. brf and brl files. They will not display properly in Mac OS X or 
IOS 4.

I only read contracted Braille files on my Braille Lite 40 notetaker, and *not* 
in display mode.

HTH,
Teresa
On Sep 11, 2011, at 12:41 PM, Eugenia Firth wrote:

> Ok, Teresa. I don't understand something. If the iPod also doesn't have a 
> computer braille option, how are you able to read grade 2 files on your 
> braille display without translating them? Since I'm a braille proofreader, 
> translating grade 2 files is not workable for what I'm doing. 
> 
> A little confused.
> Regards,
> Gigi
> 
> On Sep 11, 2011, at 11:33 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:
> 
>> Then there's always playing with scripts when you have a bit of time on your 
>> hands. That's basically what I was doing. I wanted to get the mac ports 
>> anyhow.
>> 
>> Teresa
>> On Sep 11, 2011, at 4:31 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> 
>>> That was my question, too, Ricardo.  Then if you VO to the right and 
>>> interact, you get a 6-day forecast.  What more do people want?
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> On Sep 11, 2011, at 2:36 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>>> 
 Hi,
 
 You know what,
 
 For me, when I press F12, the focus automatically falls on the temperature 
 and current weather condition in dash board.  Isn't that what people are 
 pretty much looking for?  Press 1 key and get your current weather?
 
 Ricardo Walker
 rwalker...@gmail.com
 Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
 www.mobileaccess.org
 
 On Sep 11, 2011, at 2:10 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:
 
> Thanks, Keith. That's pretty slick. I don't mind having MacPorts, either, 
> as there are some things I wouldn't mind playing with in there, including 
> the Lynx browser.
> 
> teresa
> 
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Re: Apple to the core: episode 4. selecting text on webpages

[Jürgen Fleger]

And sometimes it doesn't work propperly. That's at least my personal experience.
Jürgen
Am 11.09.2011 um 23:13 schrieb Ricardo Walker:

> Yeah,  That works.  The problem with this method is, you can only select what 
> is in the voiceover cursor.  It can get tedious jumping from spot to spot 
> copying and pasting.
> 
> 
> Ricardo Walker
> rwalker...@gmail.com
> Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
> www.mobileaccess.org
> 
> On Sep 11, 2011, at 5:06 PM, Cody wrote:
> 
>> Yup basically in short you can use vo plus enter to begin selection and use 
>> the arrow keys and then press vo plus enter again to stop selection and 
>> press control c
>> On Sep 11, 2011, at 3:04 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi folks,
>>> 
>>> I've come up with a fairly easy way to select text on webpages using Lion.  
>>> I haven't tried it but, I think the same method will also work on snow 
>>> leopard.  You can listen to me show how to do this at
>>> http://goo.gl/EY1eP
>>> 
>>> hth
>>> 
>>> Ricardo Walker
>>> rwalker...@gmail.com
>>> Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
>>> www.mobileaccess.org
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> 
>> 
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Re: Weather / Temperature Apple Script

[Teresa Cochran]

Rate argument works fine in Lion. I've adjusted it to various values and it's 
great.

Teresa
On Sep 11, 2011, at 2:43 PM, Keith Watson wrote:

> Ester,
> 
> I did not know that the rate switch was not available in earlier versions of 
> OSX. I actually found it by…wait for it…RTFMing. . Doing a man on say 
> gave me all that info. The value for the rate is in words per minute 
> according to the man page. Quite frankly I think they are full of it because 
> I set it to 1000 and was able to understand every word. Maybe Alex tops out 
> at around 600 or so.
> 
> Anyway, having fun playing around with all this myself. Now if only I could 
> get Tessa to cook me a nice dinner I would be in heaven.
> 
> Keith
> 
> On Sep 11, 2011, at 1:19 PM, Esther wrote:
> 
>> Hi Keith,
>> 
>> I'll just add that if you want the say command in your AppleScript to 
>> announce the temperature in another voice, you can also set that as an 
>> argument and use any of your installed system voices (including the InfoVox 
>> voices if you have them).  For example, if you're a French user in Snow 
>> Leopard with the InfoVox French voice you could change the last part of that 
>> shell script to a pipe to  "say -v Alice", for example, or other valid voice 
>> on your system.  It looks as though there's an extra argument to the "say" 
>> command in Lion that is not in Snow Leopard.  Does the "r" switch allow you 
>> to specify a speech rate?  (That's not something you can do in earlier 
>> versions of Mac OS X.)
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Esther
>> 
>> On Sep 11, 2011, at 05:27, Keith Watson wrote:
>> 
>>> All,
>>> 
>>> Like Scott said, this was an exercise in learning Apple Script and to 
>>> facilitate the request of another list member. They did not want all the 
>>> information that the weather widget gave. All they wanted was the outside 
>>> temperature. If the weather widget works for you then by all means continue 
>>> to use it and ignore this thread. I could really give a crap if you like or 
>>> dislike the way myself or others wish to garner our information.
>>> 
>>> So with that said, I have found that there is a way to do this with curl. 
>>> Open your Apple Script editor and copy the following line into it. With 
>>> this code you do not have to install Xcode or Mac Ports. And in the 
>>> interest of full disclosure, I am also going to post the original Mac Hints 
>>> snippet in case anyone is interested in whether or not it's going to be 
>>> hotter today than yesterday. Oh and as before, make sure you substitute 
>>> 33617 with your own zip  code.
>>> 
>>> *** Code starts on next line ***
>>> do shell script "curl -s 
>>> http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=33617 | 
>>> grep -A 2 tempActual | textutil -convert txt -stdin -stdout -format html | 
>>> say -r 400"
>>> *** Code ends here ***
>>> 
>>> Original Mac Hints code, with a pipe to say added by me.
>>> 
>>> *** Code starts on next line. ***
>>> do shell script "curl -s 
>>> http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=33617 | 
>>> awk '/Today is/ || /Tomorrow is/' | textutil -convert txt -stdin -stdout 
>>> -format html | say -r 400"
>>> *** Code ends here. ***
>>> 
>>> 
>>> If you have any problems or suggestions, please don;t hesitate to ask or 
>>> criticize. I personally find that this method is slower than the other way, 
>>> but it does not require any additional installs.
>>> 
>>> Have fun.
>>> 
>>> Keith
>>> On Sep 11, 2011, at 8:20 AM, Scott Howell wrote:
>>> 
 Donna, you are making the assumption that someone would always have that 
 widget always in focus. This may be a lot of work for you, but the ends 
 justifies the means. Your entitled to your opinion of course; however, 
 aside from the learning opportunity, you still are assuming that this 
 widget is always going to be in focus. FOr me I always have the calendar 
 available. Another point here to keep in mind is that you cannot control 
 the sources of the weather widget; however, this script could conceivably 
 be used to pull weather data from nearly any source. In fact you could 
 even have your own weather station and use such a script to capture the 
 information from that weather station.
 On Sep 11, 2011, at 8:14 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 
> True, it is a learning opportunity.  though to me it seems like a lot of 
> work just to duplicate something that already exists on the Mac.  Just my 
> $.02.
> Cheers,
> donna
> 
> On Sep 11, 2011, at 8:09 AM, Scott Howell wrote:
> 
>> What amazes me is that some missed the point of the script. Ricardo 
>> points out that hitting f12 drops him on the weather widget  and that is 
>> just great; however, not everyone has that particular item there at all 
>> times. iN fact I tend to keep the calendar widget as the one with focus. 
>> The other point some have missed here is the learning opportunity of how 

pages and websites

[Anouk Radix]

Hey, thanks this is really cool news, i will write you off list once i found 
where i can see osmones email address in mail.
Oh i remembered how to do the hting in pages command-up and i presume 
ocmmand-down is for end of document. Once i started reading documents it came 
back to me.
At first i had difficulty reading documents with my braille display but you 
just have tointeract once with the document and then it is fine.
Greetings, Anouk,
On Sep 12, 2011, at 5:00 PM, Rachel magario wrote:

> Anouk,
> 
> You don't need to have a blog name on the web site, it can look just like a 
> web site, no body will even know that word press is hosting it. Do you have a 
> domain and a server?
> If you want more info on this, I can help you, just write to me off list, 
> since I don't want to make huge threads about how to make simple web site, 
> might be a bit out off topic?
> I mean, if others are interested that is fine, but I am not sure, if this 
> falls list guidelines, i confess I did not read the rules! ;)
> Rachel
> On Sep 12, 2011, at 9:52 AM, Anouk Radix wrote:
> 
>> Hey, thanks a lot, i think i will indeed end up doing somehting like 
>> wordpress. I would not like though having a blogging name in the website 
>> url, still its probbably the easiest.
>> Greetings, Anouk,
>> On Sep 12, 2011, at 2:41 PM, Rachel magario wrote:
>> 
>>> Anouk,
>>> 
>>> Are you going to be changing your content in a regular bases? Most pages 
>>> now do, so if you are, I suggest you use word press. Even though it is a 
>>> bloging platform, can also be  used as a  regular web page builder. In 
>>> addition, the learning curve to learn the system is not big at all. It is 
>>> also fairly accessible, not 100%, but decent.
>>> 
>>> If I remember correct, web.com was fairly accessible, but I have not used 
>>> that in a while. The issue there is I think I couldn't  use my own domain, 
>>> probably that is why I left. I am sure by now this must be an option.
>>> 
>>> Iweb, can be used, but requires sighted help to learn the environment and 
>>> take loads of memorization. Plus the audio feedback for the visual display 
>>> is almost none. I would say, to much trouble for little return. Also the 
>>> templates have no names, just random numbers.
>>> I have not tried dream weaver in the mac yet, But if it is like most adobe 
>>> products I need to use, not much joy in there. Although the old dreamweaver 
>>> 8 in windows let you do simple pages with jaws without a whole lots of 
>>> issues. But requires lots of attention of where you put your mouse. I would 
>>> never up load a page without visual feedback first, just in case. Cant tell 
>>> you how cs5 works with either mac or windows.
>>> 
>>> HTH,
>>> Rachel
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sep 12, 2011, at 1:10 AM, Anouk Radix wrote:
>>> 
 Thanks a great deal. I will try it.
 I basically need some kind of wizard interface which allows you to create 
 a webpage even when you don't know html.
 Thanks,
 Greetings, Anouk,
 On Sep 12, 2011, at 4:13 AM, Jon Cohn wrote:
 
> Sorry for the additional post, my last one was a bit unclear.
> 
> There is a program called sandvox sandbox but the b as in bravo has been 
> changed to a v as in Victor.  This program seems to allow some 
> interesting HTNL editing, but I did not spend much time on it.  You can 
> download it for free, and I believe it is shareware.
> 
> Jonathan
> 
> -- 
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Re: going to beginning or end of document in pages

[Rachel magario]

Interact with the body of the document and then use fn vo shift plus left or 
right arrow, depending upon if you want the start or the end. this is for 
laptop key board, not desk top I believe just vo plus home and end does it? Not 
sure on that though.
Rachel.
On Sep 12, 2011, at 6:47 AM, Anouk Radix wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> How can i go to the beginning or the end of a document in pages, i thought 
> fn+left and right arrow would do it but htat doesnt get me there.
> Thanks in advance
> Greetings, Anouk,
> 
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Re: making a website on the mac?

[Rachel magario]

Anouk,

You don't need to have a blog name on the web site, it can look just like a web 
site, no body will even know that word press is hosting it. Do you have a 
domain and a server?
If you want more info on this, I can help you, just write to me off list, since 
I don't want to make huge threads about how to make simple web site, might be a 
bit out off topic?
I mean, if others are interested that is fine, but I am not sure, if this falls 
list guidelines, i confess I did not read the rules! ;)
Rachel
On Sep 12, 2011, at 9:52 AM, Anouk Radix wrote:

> Hey, thanks a lot, i think i will indeed end up doing somehting like 
> wordpress. I would not like though having a blogging name in the website url, 
> still its probbably the easiest.
> Greetings, Anouk,
> On Sep 12, 2011, at 2:41 PM, Rachel magario wrote:
> 
>> Anouk,
>> 
>> Are you going to be changing your content in a regular bases? Most pages now 
>> do, so if you are, I suggest you use word press. Even though it is a bloging 
>> platform, can also be  used as a  regular web page builder. In addition, the 
>> learning curve to learn the system is not big at all. It is also fairly 
>> accessible, not 100%, but decent.
>> 
>> If I remember correct, web.com was fairly accessible, but I have not used 
>> that in a while. The issue there is I think I couldn't  use my own domain, 
>> probably that is why I left. I am sure by now this must be an option.
>> 
>> Iweb, can be used, but requires sighted help to learn the environment and 
>> take loads of memorization. Plus the audio feedback for the visual display 
>> is almost none. I would say, to much trouble for little return. Also the 
>> templates have no names, just random numbers.
>> I have not tried dream weaver in the mac yet, But if it is like most adobe 
>> products I need to use, not much joy in there. Although the old dreamweaver 
>> 8 in windows let you do simple pages with jaws without a whole lots of 
>> issues. But requires lots of attention of where you put your mouse. I would 
>> never up load a page without visual feedback first, just in case. Cant tell 
>> you how cs5 works with either mac or windows.
>> 
>> HTH,
>> Rachel
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sep 12, 2011, at 1:10 AM, Anouk Radix wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks a great deal. I will try it.
>>> I basically need some kind of wizard interface which allows you to create a 
>>> webpage even when you don't know html.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Greetings, Anouk,
>>> On Sep 12, 2011, at 4:13 AM, Jon Cohn wrote:
>>> 
 Sorry for the additional post, my last one was a bit unclear.
 
 There is a program called sandvox sandbox but the b as in bravo has been 
 changed to a v as in Victor.  This program seems to allow some interesting 
 HTNL editing, but I did not spend much time on it.  You can download it 
 for free, and I believe it is shareware.
 
 Jonathan
 
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 http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
 
>>> 
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>> 
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> 
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Re: making a website on the mac?

[Anouk Radix]

Hey, thanks a lot, i think i will indeed end up doing somehting like wordpress. 
I would not like though having a blogging name in the website url, still its 
probbably the easiest.
Greetings, Anouk,
On Sep 12, 2011, at 2:41 PM, Rachel magario wrote:

> Anouk,
> 
> Are you going to be changing your content in a regular bases? Most pages now 
> do, so if you are, I suggest you use word press. Even though it is a bloging 
> platform, can also be  used as a  regular web page builder. In addition, the 
> learning curve to learn the system is not big at all. It is also fairly 
> accessible, not 100%, but decent.
> 
> If I remember correct, web.com was fairly accessible, but I have not used 
> that in a while. The issue there is I think I couldn't  use my own domain, 
> probably that is why I left. I am sure by now this must be an option.
> 
> Iweb, can be used, but requires sighted help to learn the environment and 
> take loads of memorization. Plus the audio feedback for the visual display is 
> almost none. I would say, to much trouble for little return. Also the 
> templates have no names, just random numbers.
> I have not tried dream weaver in the mac yet, But if it is like most adobe 
> products I need to use, not much joy in there. Although the old dreamweaver 8 
> in windows let you do simple pages with jaws without a whole lots of issues. 
> But requires lots of attention of where you put your mouse. I would never up 
> load a page without visual feedback first, just in case. Cant tell you how 
> cs5 works with either mac or windows.
> 
> HTH,
> Rachel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sep 12, 2011, at 1:10 AM, Anouk Radix wrote:
> 
>> Thanks a great deal. I will try it.
>> I basically need some kind of wizard interface which allows you to create a 
>> webpage even when you don't know html.
>> Thanks,
>> Greetings, Anouk,
>> On Sep 12, 2011, at 4:13 AM, Jon Cohn wrote:
>> 
>>> Sorry for the additional post, my last one was a bit unclear.
>>> 
>>> There is a program called sandvox sandbox but the b as in bravo has been 
>>> changed to a v as in Victor.  This program seems to allow some interesting 
>>> HTNL editing, but I did not spend much time on it.  You can download it for 
>>> free, and I believe it is shareware.
>>> 
>>> Jonathan
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> 
>> 
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> 
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is this a script guys?

[Paul Erkens]

Hi list,

I was once using a usb dongle modem to connect to 3g to have wireless internet. 
But no more. However, I would like to uninstall the driver for this modem. I 
got a text file with it, but can I run this, or what should I do with this one? 
Here is the file. Interested to see if you know how to handle it.
#Uninstaller of ZTE Datacard Drver in Mac OS X
#Copyright ZTE Corporation 2006 - 2010
echo "Welcome to use ZTE Datacard."
echo "Now, begining to uninstall ZTE Datacard driver.."

sudo kextunload -v /System/Library/Extensions/ZTEUSBCDCACMData.kext
sudo kextunload -v /System/Library/Extensions/ZTEUSBCDCACMControl.kext


sudo rm -r -f /Library/Modem\ Scripts/ZTE\ USB\ MODEM
sudo rm -r -f /Application/MiniUI
sudo rm -r -f /System/Library/Extensions/ZTEUSBCDCACMData.kext
sudo rm -r -f /System/Library/Extensions/ZTEUSBCDCACMControl.kext

sudo rm -r -f /System/Library/Extensions.kextcache
sudo rm -r -f /System/Library/Extensions.mkext 
sudo rm -r -f /System/Library/Caches/com.apple.kernelcaches/
sudo rm -r -f /Library/Receipts/ZTEDatacardDriverInstaller.pkg 

echo "..ZTE Datacard driver has Uninstalled successfully."

Greetings and thanks a lot for possible help.
Paul.


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Re: Pages

[Greg Aikens]

Hi Ezzie,
The header section is where you put anything you want at the top of the page, 
especially recurring text such as your last name.  This is a great place for 
your name and it is where the page number will go.  Footers are for things like 
footnotes.  

Add page numbers by going into Insert on the menu bar and selecting auto page 
numbers.  This will open a dialogue that lets you specify where you want the 
page numbers.  Add your name to the header section and you should have what you 
want.  Pages generally copies whatever you put into the first header and puts 
the same on subsequent headers.  This can be helpful or unhelpful, depending on 
what you need.  

As for other formatting, you can access most things through the inspector 
dialogue, which you pull up with CMD+Option+I.  

I would suggest searching the archives of this list for more info.  There 
several good threads on formatting in pages.  

HTH,
Greg
On Sep 11, 2011, at 8:59 PM, ezzie bueno wrote:

> Hello List,
> 
> I hope that you're lll having a fantastic weekend.
> I will be writing a paper on my Mac for the first time.  I previously used 
> Office to accomplish assgnments.
> I need you to please help me navigate through formatting my paper on pages.  
> Some of my future papers will require the MLA format, in which I must have my 
> last name on each page followed by the corresponding page number.  How 
> exactly do I go about setting that up, along with margins, font and spacing? 
> Also, do I use the header section of the document to write my name, date, 
> title, etc.? What exactly goes in the footer section?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ezzie Bueno
> Sent from my BrailleNote Apex
> Skype: sillyez
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sillyez
> Google Talk: sill...@sillyez.com
> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/sillyez
> 
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Re: solving visual captchas with mac and safari

[Ray Foret Jr]

Now, seems to me that's one very correct approach to take to the matter.

I trust you commended them for there forward thinking on the captcha matter?  
Seems to me such providers, site developers ETC deserve to be emulated.


Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!

Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!

Skype name:
barefootedray

Facebook:
facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1



On Sep 12, 2011, at 8:58 AM, Maxwell Ivey Jr. wrote:

> recently while submitting my rss feed to a new directory i ran across a 
> captcha i had never heard of before.  it gave you a list of six check boxes 
> and asked you to check which ones were birds.  I liked it so much i went back 
> to see what would happen. the next time it asked which of the six were 
> continents.  very cool.  good luck fighting the beasties, max
> On Sep 12, 2011, at 3:04 AM, Adie wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Guys,
>> 
>> I am fed up of audio captcha. My Member of Parliament currently has a
>> question in to the UK Prime Minister about use of audio capcha on
>> government websites. I know it's a drag, but we need to challenge
>> these things every time we come across them. I was on a site the other
>> day which had a simple equation instead of an audio captcha. It was a
>> joy.
>> 
>> BTW, I love the bit where it says the audio captcha is to test whether
>> or not you are a human being. I always write to them saying that,
>> despite the fact that I can't see, I am nevertheless a human.
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> Adrienne
>> On Sep 11, 9:05 pm, Eric Oyen  wrote:
>>> I find that rather interesting. now why would the general public (and 
>>> business professionals) get the impression that mozilla was the most 
>>> accessible web browser for any OS? sure it works well with windoweeyes and 
>>> jaws in the windows platform. it also works mostly with orca in linux. it 
>>> does not work at all in OS X with voiceover (and I have even tried growl 
>>> with it and still had a lot of issues).
>>> 
>>> I have sent more than a few emails over the last few years and all I get 
>>> back is nothing but a load of crapola and finger pointing. now I know we 
>>> can't prevail upon a bunch of volunteer code monkeys and still have them do 
>>> the work. if they were paid and we wrote the checks, that would certainly 
>>> be a different case.
>>> 
>>> -Eric
>>> On Sep 11, 2011, at 12:43 AM, Rachel magario wrote:> the sad part is that 
>>> loads of programers think firefox is the most accessible browser out there. 
>>> They get shocked to find it does not work on the mac. I recall a programer 
>>> at my work insisted that I should use mozilla. Only after he tried using it 
>>>  with  vo by him self,  was when the message got across!
>> 
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Re: Java Script message boxes cause VoiceOver to say "busy"

[Esther]

Hi Ryan,

I'm not sure whether this is Snow Leopard directly, or Safari 5.1, which I 
suspect is the culprit.  I've read that Safari 5.03 and 5.05 work in Lion, so 
some people have restored those versions from Time Machine backups and use it 
instead.  The other alternative is to download Webkit and see whether the 
problems persist.  The page works fine in Snow Leopard with Safari 5.05.

Cheers,

Esther

On Sep 11, 2011, at 06:53, Ryan Mann wrote:

> Hello.  I've noticed that since I upgraded to Lion, VoiceOver doesn't seem to 
> like message boxes that are on some web sites.  Java Script is used to create 
> these message boxes.  To see what I am talking about, open 
> http://www.webteacher.com/javascript/ch01.html.  Type something into the 
> form.  Then activate the "show me" button.  Does VoiceOver read the box or 
> does it say "busy?"  I'm thinking about emailing accessibil...@apple.com, but 
> I want to make sure it's not my machine first.
> Thanks.
> 
> Ryan Mann
> rmann0...@gmail.com
> Follow me on Facebook.
> http://m.facebook.com/profile.php?r170f8385&refid=7
> 

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porting mail base to new system

[Paul Erkens]

Hi all,
I installed something that I cannot get rid of. What I want to do now, is 
backup my system entirely, then reinstall lion fresh, which I've done before, 
and then restoring my email database with all messages, contacts, rules in 
place. Is this possible? How do I do this?

Paul.

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Re: solving visual captchas with mac and safari

[Maxwell Ivey Jr.]

recently while submitting my rss feed to a new directory i ran across  
a captcha i had never heard of before.  it gave you a list of six  
check boxes and asked you to check which ones were birds.  I liked it  
so much i went back to see what would happen. the next time it asked  
which of the six were continents.  very cool.  good luck fighting the  
beasties, max

On Sep 12, 2011, at 3:04 AM, Adie wrote:




Guys,

I am fed up of audio captcha. My Member of Parliament currently has a
question in to the UK Prime Minister about use of audio capcha on
government websites. I know it's a drag, but we need to challenge
these things every time we come across them. I was on a site the other
day which had a simple equation instead of an audio captcha. It was a
joy.

BTW, I love the bit where it says the audio captcha is to test whether
or not you are a human being. I always write to them saying that,
despite the fact that I can't see, I am nevertheless a human.

Cheers

Adrienne
On Sep 11, 9:05 pm, Eric Oyen  wrote:
I find that rather interesting. now why would the general public  
(and business professionals) get the impression that mozilla was  
the most accessible web browser for any OS? sure it works well with  
windoweeyes and jaws in the windows platform. it also works mostly  
with orca in linux. it does not work at all in OS X with voiceover  
(and I have even tried growl with it and still had a lot of issues).


I have sent more than a few emails over the last few years and all  
I get back is nothing but a load of crapola and finger pointing.  
now I know we can't prevail upon a bunch of volunteer code monkeys  
and still have them do the work. if they were paid and we wrote the  
checks, that would certainly be a different case.


-Eric
On Sep 11, 2011, at 12:43 AM, Rachel magario wrote:> the sad part  
is that loads of programers think firefox is the most accessible  
browser out there. They get shocked to find it does not work on the  
mac. I recall a programer at my work insisted that I should use  
mozilla. Only after he tried using it  with  vo by him self,  was  
when the message got across!


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Re: solving visual captchas with mac and safari

[Rachel magario]

Eric and all following this thread,
I am not sure why they think that.
Perhaps, because it is claimed to be the most accessible for jaws and for orca 
too? 
Also it is not owned my apple or Microsoft. The volunteers who work for open 
source, usually dislike the oppressive proprietary companies. The only strange 
thing is that if they want open source free software to the reach of all, I 
don't understand why they would dismiss Adrian and other who have requested 
accessibility for screen readers. I understand not wanting to budge to the 
impositions of apple standards, but is sort of dismiss the purpose of open 
source for everyone, doesn't it? We are part of the all! ;)
Also, I am not sure of the accessibility of mozilla, having to have a webvisiom 
and use aria and all that, seems to complicated sometimes. I am the type of 
person who likes to use it right out of the box, like the Iphone! :)  I don't 
mean to be disrespectful for people's efforts. In the contrary I am very 
grateful. However, in my profession of interaction designer, I realize 
businesses and everyone is looking for more intuitive services and systems. The 
more competitions the harder everyone work at it. But it if interesting, how 
for screen readers and other assistive tech, the field looks very different, it 
is not about making it easier and more intuitive all the time. A lot of the 
time is not even considered by big corporations other than apple, or  we are 
always talking about making a new gadget, or a new product to substitute 
something that have several versions out there and all we need is for them to 
be accessible, Just like apple did, perhaps vo is not perfect yet, but we know 
apple cares enough for keeping on fixing bugs and improving our products as 
they improve for the rest of the world. Then I think, what if some day Apple 
becomes our only choice because nobody could could survive as small assistive 
tech companies and the people at apple did not care as much any more? I mean, I 
don't think that would ever happened, but my point is, what if the next great 
phone was red berry and that become the standard in companies, and no built in 
screen reader, then we go back to the having to built a third party software 
that does not work out of the box and have a huge learning curve. I just wish 
there was a way to make other people see that competition is good and pays off. 
I mean, how long have we fought with Amazon to make kindle accessible? I mean 
not even their iPhone app is accessible, and every thing is there for them, the 
screen reader, it is just a matter of coding right. 
Ok, i talked to much already.
Respectfully,
Rachel


On Sep 12, 2011, at 3:04 AM, Aide wrote:

> 
> 
> Guys,
> 
> I am fed up of audio captcha. My Member of Parliament currently has a
> question in to the UK Prime Minister about use of audio capcha on
> government websites. I know it's a drag, but we need to challenge
> these things every time we come across them. I was on a site the other
> day which had a simple equation instead of an audio captcha. It was a
> joy.
> 
> BTW, I love the bit where it says the audio captcha is to test whether
> or not you are a human being. I always write to them saying that,
> despite the fact that I can't see, I am nevertheless a human.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Adrienne
> On Sep 11, 9:05 pm, Eric Oyen  wrote:
>> I find that rather interesting. now why would the general public (and 
>> business professionals) get the impression that mozilla was the most 
>> accessible web browser for any OS? sure it works well with windoweeyes and 
>> jaws in the windows platform. it also works mostly with orca in linux. it 
>> does not work at all in OS X with voiceover (and I have even tried growl 
>> with it and still had a lot of issues).
>> 
>> I have sent more than a few emails over the last few years and all I get 
>> back is nothing but a load of crapola and finger pointing. now I know we 
>> can't prevail upon a bunch of volunteer code monkeys and still have them do 
>> the work. if they were paid and we wrote the checks, that would certainly be 
>> a different case.
>> 
>> -Eric
>> On Sep 11, 2011, at 12:43 AM, Rachel magario wrote:> the sad part is that 
>> loads of programers think firefox is the most accessible browser out there. 
>> They get shocked to find it does not work on the mac. I recall a programer 
>> at my work insisted that I should use mozilla. Only after he tried using it  
>> with  vo by him self,  was when the message got across!
> 
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Re: making a website on the mac?

[Rachel magario]

Anouk,

Are you going to be changing your content in a regular bases? Most pages now 
do, so if you are, I suggest you use word press. Even though it is a bloging 
platform, can also be  used as a  regular web page builder. In addition, the 
learning curve to learn the system is not big at all. It is also fairly 
accessible, not 100%, but decent.

If I remember correct, web.com was fairly accessible, but I have not used that 
in a while. The issue there is I think I couldn't  use my own domain, probably 
that is why I left. I am sure by now this must be an option.

Iweb, can be used, but requires sighted help to learn the environment and take 
loads of memorization. Plus the audio feedback for the visual display is almost 
none. I would say, to much trouble for little return. Also the templates have 
no names, just random numbers.
I have not tried dream weaver in the mac yet, But if it is like most adobe 
products I need to use, not much joy in there. Although the old dreamweaver 8 
in windows let you do simple pages with jaws without a whole lots of issues. 
But requires lots of attention of where you put your mouse. I would never up 
load a page without visual feedback first, just in case. Cant tell you how cs5 
works with either mac or windows.

HTH,
Rachel

















On Sep 12, 2011, at 1:10 AM, Anouk Radix wrote:

> Thanks a great deal. I will try it.
> I basically need some kind of wizard interface which allows you to create a 
> webpage even when you don't know html.
> Thanks,
> Greetings, Anouk,
> On Sep 12, 2011, at 4:13 AM, Jon Cohn wrote:
> 
>> Sorry for the additional post, my last one was a bit unclear.
>> 
>> There is a program called sandvox sandbox but the b as in bravo has been 
>> changed to a v as in Victor.  This program seems to allow some interesting 
>> HTNL editing, but I did not spend much time on it.  You can download it for 
>> free, and I believe it is shareware.
>> 
>> Jonathan
>> 
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Re: Amazon Subscribe and Save Weirdness

[Rachel magario]

dan,

I am not sure if this will work, but when I run in to this problems, usually it 
is  two  links that is set up at the same level and vo cannot focus in either.
What works for me, is instead of just navigating through the vo u rotor or the 
regular navigation. I turn on the quick nav key and navigate the link or button 
or whatever it is with the arrow keys and once I find the one I want, just 
press on it with up and down arrow key together.
 Hope this helps you too.
Rachel.

On Sep 11, 2011, at 11:59 PM, Dan Roy wrote:

> Ok, this is odd indeed.
> 
> I am using Lion 7.1.
> 
> when I go to amazon subscribe and save, I can't change or edit any of my 
> orders.   The links are there, but, when I attempt to click on change, edit 
> billing and or shipping info etc.  nothing happens.  However, if I turn off 
> VO, then, they work just fine.  So, I turn off VO, hit enter to click on 
> change, then, turn VO back on and it works fine.  The other links on amazon, 
> at least, as far as I know work just fine.
> I have tried, just enter, VO-spacebar and even vo-shift-spacebar.
> 
> Any ideas on this weird behavior.  This happens on both Safari and the latest 
> build of Webkit.
> 
> Any ideas or suggestions would be most helpful, thanks.
> 
> 
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going to beginning or end of document in pages

[Anouk Radix]

Hi everyone,
How can i go to the beginning or the end of a document in pages, i thought 
fn+left and right arrow would do it but htat doesnt get me there.
Thanks in advance
Greetings, Anouk,

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reading pdfs in preview

[Anouk Radix]

Hi everyone, I just tried reading a pdf in preview but had little success. I 
can copy the whole document and past it in pages to read but i was wondering if 
its possible to read a multipage document in preview or if I can only copy the 
whole text?
Thanks,
Greetings, Anouk,

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Re: help with itunes

[Rachel magario]

Awesome, thanks Anne! My library is back! youhoo!
Now could you help me making playlists and I also don't figure out yet how to 
put play lists to my iPod touch. I want to put music and daisy files, but I 
don't get how. every time it tells me if I want to sink it will replace eevery 
thing, i canccel.
Once I managed to put some of my audible books in there, but I tried to sink 
the music later and it just took every thing out so there was no music or 
audible books.
thanks for any help,
Rachel.

On Sep 10, 2011, at 4:46 AM, Anne Robertson wrote:

> Hello Rachel,
> 
> First of all, I assume you opened iTunes from the Dock by pressing VO-Space. 
> This is a bad idea as it often takes the Option key as an instruction to ask 
> for a new iTunes library. Always open apps from the Dock with Return to avoid 
> this problem.
> 
> Now, to fix your issue, open iTunes while holding down the Option key and you 
> should find your iTunes library in the choice of folders. Don't worry, your 
> music isn't lost.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Anne
> 
> 
> On 10 Sep 2011, at 10:05, Rachel magario wrote:
> 
>> Hello everyone,
>> 
>> I am embarrassed  to say, but I am about to give up on itunes! :) I try and 
>> try, but nothing, I am starting to think it does not like me! :)
>> Ok here is the last issue.
>> I opened itunes and asked me for a library, I just moved my arrows to check 
>> was available and it chose a folder called audio books, the issue is in 
>> there there are only 3 files. Now, no matter what I do, every time itunes 
>> opens it is sellectedon that library, my old library was just called rachel 
>> music where all my musics are.
>> I went to preference, there says my library is rachel music still. But the 
>> 20 gb of stuff I had is gone from my itunes. If I go to my music folder 
>> every thing is still there, anyone knows what is going on?
>> Thanks for any help, hope someone can make my day!
>> Rachel.
>> 
>> 
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Re: getting pictures from iPhone to mac

[james Walton]

you will have to use image capture
just do a spotlight search for it

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getting pictures from iPhone to mac

[Anouk Radix]

Hello, I am not too familiar or wellversed in itunes. On the pc I let someone 
make pictures with my iphone and transported them to the pc with the scanner 
and camera wizard htat could put them all in a folder with your desired name of 
choice. Is something like this also possible with the mac or will I have to use 
itunes for this?
Thanks,
Greetings, 

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getting pictures from iPhone to mac

[Anouk Radix]

Hello, I am not too familiar or wellversed in itunes. On the pc I let someone 
make pictures with my iphone and transported them to the pc with the scanner 
and camera wizard htat could put them all in a folder with your desired name of 
choice. Is something like this also possible with the mac or will I have to use 
itunes for this?
Thanks,
Greetings, Anouk,

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To the List Administrator

[Gordon Atkinson]

Hello,

As I do not have a direct link for the administrator, I hope I might be 
forgiven for contacting you via the list.


A subscriber from another list I am on is having some difficulty trying to 
subscribe to Macvisionaries.  Could you possibly subscribe him automatically 
or write to him.  Details below.


Many thanks

Gordon Atkinson

Please use the following e-mail address to subscribe me:

d.griff...@btinternet.com

Is there a way of joining the Macvisionary list without having a Googlemail
account? I find Googlemail a nightmare and am constantly beset by graphic
captures.
Nevertheless I did create  a googlemail account and navigated the captures
but still have not heard anything from the list.
Is there an admin address I can contact the list directly on?

Regards

David Griffith


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Re: solving visual captchas with mac and safari

[Adie]

Guys,

I am fed up of audio captcha. My Member of Parliament currently has a
question in to the UK Prime Minister about use of audio capcha on
government websites. I know it's a drag, but we need to challenge
these things every time we come across them. I was on a site the other
day which had a simple equation instead of an audio captcha. It was a
joy.

BTW, I love the bit where it says the audio captcha is to test whether
or not you are a human being. I always write to them saying that,
despite the fact that I can't see, I am nevertheless a human.

Cheers

Adrienne
On Sep 11, 9:05 pm, Eric Oyen  wrote:
> I find that rather interesting. now why would the general public (and 
> business professionals) get the impression that mozilla was the most 
> accessible web browser for any OS? sure it works well with windoweeyes and 
> jaws in the windows platform. it also works mostly with orca in linux. it 
> does not work at all in OS X with voiceover (and I have even tried growl with 
> it and still had a lot of issues).
>
> I have sent more than a few emails over the last few years and all I get back 
> is nothing but a load of crapola and finger pointing. now I know we can't 
> prevail upon a bunch of volunteer code monkeys and still have them do the 
> work. if they were paid and we wrote the checks, that would certainly be a 
> different case.
>
> -Eric
> On Sep 11, 2011, at 12:43 AM, Rachel magario wrote:> the sad part is that 
> loads of programers think firefox is the most accessible browser out there. 
> They get shocked to find it does not work on the mac. I recall a programer at 
> my work insisted that I should use mozilla. Only after he tried using it  
> with  vo by him self,  was when the message got across!

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