Re: OT: anybody on the list using Linux in VMWare or on a separate machine? Pls answer off list

[maurice mines]

I downloaded the talking Arch linux. How due put in to boot camp ms windows is 
already in bootcamp.
Your friend Maurice Mines. Ps please forgive my bad spelling I am not using 
Dragon to write this email.

> On Mar 30, 2020, at 18:18, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi, Maurice:
> 
> VoiceOver won't speak your Linux in a vm. For that you'll want either
> good old Speakup or the newer Fenrir.
> 
> Beyond that it's really a question of where you'll be most comfortable.
> Lots of blind folks are using both thos distributions.
> 
> If it matters I can tell you I'm not very good at setting up Ubuntu
> these days. Arch I have and use all the time.
> 
> If you want a dual boot situation, you can install Linux inside a
> bootcamp. Have you considered that?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Janina
> 
> maurice mines writes:
>> Hi Unita, interesting take on the mailer situation and/or fix, did you ever 
>> get my message about which distribution makes the best sense to run on a 
>> virtual machine on the same computer as I only have one computer. And one 
>> note taker.
>> 
>> I’m trying to decide between Ubuntu 19, or the talking arched Lennix 
>> distribution that I downloaded. The issue with Ubuntu is getting some kind 
>> of software speech out of it. Since I certainly cannot rely on VoiceOver, or 
>> is there a way to make this work?
>> 
>> Sincerely Maurice Mines.
>> 
>>> On Mar 29, 2020, at 22:23, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Andrew:
>>> 
>>> I will attempt my own answer to your questions. Karen will likely have
>>> her own answer for you.
>>> 
>>> I'm unaccustomed to hearing that term applied to a machine running a
>>> Linux as it's one and only OS; however, it is true that you can do a lot
>>> from the Linux CLI. Looking at the items in your list one by one:
>>> 
>>> email
>>> 
>>> Absolutely. Current best choice, imo, would be mutt for your user agent.
>>> That's what I'm using write now to write this email to you.
>>> 
>>> You can run your complete email solution, in fact. You'll notice my
>>> emails don't come from some third party, but rather from my own personal
>>> domain, rednote.net, where I accept emails from the Internet and send
>>> out via the Internet. I happen to use an application called sendmail as
>>> my MTA, my "mail transfer agent." Were I starting from scratch today,
>>> I'd probably rather go with postfix than sendmail.
>>> 
>>> Web browser
>>> 
>>> I still use lynx all the time. However, there's much it can't do today
>>> for which a graphical-based browser is essential.
>>> 
>>> So the answer here is, "no."
>>> 
>>> document creation
>>> 
>>> Absolutely yes.
>>> 
>>> You will soon need to decide whether you're a vim or an emacs kind of
>>> person. Those are the two top choices for character based editing tools
>>> on the cli. There are a few others, but you really want to settle one
>>> one or the other of these. The choice between these two is very much
>>> about personal preference. Ask for advice and you risk retriggering the
>>> oldest flame war in starnixland: i.e. star nix for *nix meaning all the
>>> various flavors of unix like systems including Linux, and including the
>>> BSD on which Apple is based.
>>> 
>>> You'll also use tools like pandoc and markdown.
>>> 
>>> Your senior level thesis will be written in latex, which you can then
>>> use for the remainder of your days.
>>> 
>>> PS: I am also my own phone company via my Linux server. Yet another
>>> story for another day.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Janina
>>> 
>>> 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes:
 I’m going to show my utter ignorance.  What do you mean by virgin only 
 linux machine?  I don’t lack education but in computers/operating systems, 
 I’m a baby so I need little steps.  So do you mean pure Linux?  And does 
 this exist?  Can we therefore run email, web browser, document creation 
 like in an office suite only from command line? I’d like to think that and 
 would happily work hard to attempt to learn.  Is this what’s meant?
 
 Andrew
> On 29 Mar 2020, at 19:07, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> If I follow, that would not be the case  if one created a virgin Linux 
> only machine  though correct?
> having never been a windows user, I was simply  wondering if one could 
> use the   Linux command line platform in its entirety, but it seems that 
> is not the case.
> These days even DOS has Links the chain.
> And   as you did not include elinks I am guessing that browser tool is no 
> longer an option?
> 
> Kare
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, 29 Mar 2020, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> 
>> Karen:
>> 
>> It would be the same as you're already familiar with from other Linux
>> situations. It's just the plain old Linux console, so the two likely
>> options are lynx the cat or links the chain.
>> 
>> Of course, you still have the option to Alt-TAB your way to the 

Re: OT: anybody on the list using Linux in VMWare or on a separate machine? Pls answer off list

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Hi, Maurice:

VoiceOver won't speak your Linux in a vm. For that you'll want either
good old Speakup or the newer Fenrir.

Beyond that it's really a question of where you'll be most comfortable.
Lots of blind folks are using both thos distributions.

If it matters I can tell you I'm not very good at setting up Ubuntu
these days. Arch I have and use all the time.

If you want a dual boot situation, you can install Linux inside a
bootcamp. Have you considered that?

Best,

Janina

maurice mines writes:
> Hi Unita, interesting take on the mailer situation and/or fix, did you ever 
> get my message about which distribution makes the best sense to run on a 
> virtual machine on the same computer as I only have one computer. And one 
> note taker.
> 
> I’m trying to decide between Ubuntu 19, or the talking arched Lennix 
> distribution that I downloaded. The issue with Ubuntu is getting some kind of 
> software speech out of it. Since I certainly cannot rely on VoiceOver, or is 
> there a way to make this work?
> 
> Sincerely Maurice Mines.
> 
> > On Mar 29, 2020, at 22:23, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Andrew:
> > 
> > I will attempt my own answer to your questions. Karen will likely have
> > her own answer for you.
> > 
> > I'm unaccustomed to hearing that term applied to a machine running a
> > Linux as it's one and only OS; however, it is true that you can do a lot
> > from the Linux CLI. Looking at the items in your list one by one:
> > 
> > email
> > 
> > Absolutely. Current best choice, imo, would be mutt for your user agent.
> > That's what I'm using write now to write this email to you.
> > 
> > You can run your complete email solution, in fact. You'll notice my
> > emails don't come from some third party, but rather from my own personal
> > domain, rednote.net, where I accept emails from the Internet and send
> > out via the Internet. I happen to use an application called sendmail as
> > my MTA, my "mail transfer agent." Were I starting from scratch today,
> > I'd probably rather go with postfix than sendmail.
> > 
> > Web browser
> > 
> > I still use lynx all the time. However, there's much it can't do today
> > for which a graphical-based browser is essential.
> > 
> > So the answer here is, "no."
> > 
> > document creation
> > 
> > Absolutely yes.
> > 
> > You will soon need to decide whether you're a vim or an emacs kind of
> > person. Those are the two top choices for character based editing tools
> > on the cli. There are a few others, but you really want to settle one
> > one or the other of these. The choice between these two is very much
> > about personal preference. Ask for advice and you risk retriggering the
> > oldest flame war in starnixland: i.e. star nix for *nix meaning all the
> > various flavors of unix like systems including Linux, and including the
> > BSD on which Apple is based.
> > 
> > You'll also use tools like pandoc and markdown.
> > 
> > Your senior level thesis will be written in latex, which you can then
> > use for the remainder of your days.
> > 
> > PS: I am also my own phone company via my Linux server. Yet another
> > story for another day.
> > 
> > Best,
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes:
> >> I’m going to show my utter ignorance.  What do you mean by virgin only 
> >> linux machine?  I don’t lack education but in computers/operating systems, 
> >> I’m a baby so I need little steps.  So do you mean pure Linux?  And does 
> >> this exist?  Can we therefore run email, web browser, document creation 
> >> like in an office suite only from command line? I’d like to think that and 
> >> would happily work hard to attempt to learn.  Is this what’s meant?
> >> 
> >> Andrew
> >>> On 29 Mar 2020, at 19:07, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> If I follow, that would not be the case  if one created a virgin Linux 
> >>> only machine  though correct?
> >>> having never been a windows user, I was simply  wondering if one could 
> >>> use the   Linux command line platform in its entirety, but it seems that 
> >>> is not the case.
> >>> These days even DOS has Links the chain.
> >>> And   as you did not include elinks I am guessing that browser tool is no 
> >>> longer an option?
> >>> 
> >>> Kare
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> On Sun, 29 Mar 2020, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> >>> 
>  Karen:
>  
>  It would be the same as you're already familiar with from other Linux
>  situations. It's just the plain old Linux console, so the two likely
>  options are lynx the cat or links the chain.
>  
>  Of course, you still have the option to Alt-TAB your way to the Windows
>  desktop for Chrome, Firefox, or Edge.
>  
>  Best,
>  
>  Janina
>  
>  Karen Lewellen writes:
> > Enjoying this exchange.
> > I am wondering what browsers are used in  either this command line
> > environment, or the one you illustrated for Andrew?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Oh, Simon, Simon !!
Perhaps coffee brew the next time? At least it isn't as likely ...

Simon A Fogarty writes:
> Well the last time I had home brew 
> It made me really really ill,
> 
>  I was throwing up for hours.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Anders Holmberg
> Sent: Monday, 30 March 2020 10:47 PM
> To: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
> Subject: Re: A couple Terminal questions
> 
> Hi!
> What does homebrew actually do?
> Is this a library or what?
> Thanks.
> /A
> 
> > 30 mars 2020 kl. 11:33 skrev 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
> > :
> > 
> > Janina,
> > 
> > I’ve looked carefully at Greg’s suggestion and then did a search for 
> > Homebrew and TDSR and since the only thing i understand about Python 
> > is that it is one of the programming languages, I thought I’m too 
> > green around the gills to even attempt to play around with TDSR in 
> > case I mess up my mac.  Would you agree? 
> > 
> > Andrew
> >> On 30 Mar 2020, at 06:32, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >>  wrote:
> >> 
> >> Thanks for the reminder, Greg. I'm just now starting the install of 
> >> TDSR. For me that means an update of homebrew, followed by an upgrade 
> >> of python3, and that is taking quite some time.
> >> 
> >> Hopeing the result will truly be easier to use than VO in the 
> >> terminal, as you suggest. That would be a good thing, imo.
> >> 
> >> Best,
> >> 
> >> Janina
> >> 
> >> Greg Wocher writes:
> >>> Hello,
> >>> You might want to try the TDSR console screen reader for Mac. It makes 
> >>> working with the terminal a bit easier. It can be found at:
> >>> https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr 
> >>> 
> >>> Greg Wocher
> >>> 
>  On Mar 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>   wrote:
>  
>  Hi,
>  
>  When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the 
>  window content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of 
>  files in the directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe 
>  even copy their names to clipboard or details about them if I were to 
>  use the -l flag, which would produce long information about each item.
>  
>  Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut techniques 
>  the author teaches is to start typing the name of a directory to which 
>  one wishes to change and then pressing tab, which would result in 
>  Terminal completing the name or else giving a list of available names if 
>  there should be more than one.  This doesn’t seem to work.  When I press 
>  the tab, I hear the ominous bong bong.  So this technique doesn’t work.  
>  Any thoughts on this?
>  
>  andrew
>  
>  --
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> >>> 
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> >> 
> >> --
> 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Hi, Andrew:

Wow. You are moving forward quickly, Andrew. Congratulations!

Quick Comment: I wouldn't worry about TDSR on Linux, unless you want to
compare and contrast between it and Speakup and/or Fenrir. Of course, if
you prefer it to those other two, by all means add it to your Linux!

It also sounds like your homebew got updated. It will do that when
necessary, and as you learned, it's capable of handling situations where
there are issues to clean up. Out of curiosity I ran 'brew doctor' on my
Airbook and got a list of things I should deal with at some point!

As for sudo ...

It's pretty similar to Linux. As root you run visudo and look near the
bottom for a comment that says something about granting any user that's
a member of wheel access, then look at the two statements below that and
uncomment those if you want your ordinary user to be able to do those
things.

Save and exit visudo.

Then, you need to add your ordinary user to the wheel group. On Linux
you edit /etc/group to do that, find the wheel line, go to the end, add
a comma followed by your ordinary user login.

On Mac it's a little different. I found a page of instructions here:

https://superuser.com/q/214004


With this done you can run commands as your ordinary user:

sudo 

And, if you forget to put the sudo up front--which we all forget that
eventually, don't retype the entire command, instead do:

sudo !!

To actually become super-user, i.e. root: do:

sudo -i

OK. That's it for today. I'm fried. I've been up some 21 hours. I'm
waiting for a grocery delivery. Once they come and the groceries are put
away, I'm off to b$

Best,

Janina

'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes:
> Hello Janina,
> 
> I think I’ve done it.  I’ve made TDSR talk with Daniel, British voice.  I’m 
> exhausted and my nerves are jangling but I’m so glad.  by the time I become a 
> mediocre cli user, I shall probably become an alcoholic too.  
> 
> I got the same warning message I’m pasting just underneath:
> "You will encounter build failures with some formulae.
> Please create pull requests instead of asking for help on Homebrew's GitHub,
> Discourse, Twitter or IRC. You are responsible for resolving any issues you
> experience while you are running this old version.”
> But then I proceeded to reinstall python and as soon as I issued the command 
> a brief message flashed across the screen saying updating Homebrew, so maybe 
> Homebrew has been updated.  It would appear from what I’ve been reading on 
> installation instructions that Sierra is supported but it says as best as 
> possible. I guess Sierra was the first 64bit MacOs.  The rest of the 
> installation went well and when I issued the final command ~/tdsr/tdsr I 
> heard the familiar Daniel voice.  How fabulous!
> 
> On the same page, I’ve found instructions for installing TDSR on Linux, so I 
> will try to do it too.  Should I be doing it as root?  By the way, talking of 
> root, when I’m logged in as user, how do i find out whether I’ve given myself 
> sudo privileges or not?  If not, can I still do it, or do I have to repeat 
> the installation?  The instructions for linux tell me to install speech 
> dispatcher and Python3.  Would I use the command. Install for them both and 
> is speech dispatcher for installation purposes spelt as two words or one or 
> with a hyphen?
> 
> Thank you very much again, Janina, for your help.  I’m a bit anxious having 
> imposed on you and your time so do feel free to let me know if it’s too much.
> 
> Well, back to Joe Kissell’s Tutorial on Mastering the Command line in MacOS.  
> Oh, one more thing.  I tried to change the shell in Terminal from Bash to Zsh 
> with chsh /bin/zsh but it didn’t take.  Is it because I’m still running this 
> Terminal on Sierra/. I’ve succeeded on my Catalina machine.
> 
> Andrew
> > On 30 Mar 2020, at 15:44, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Hi Again, Andrew:
> > 
> > Yeah, I can't say for sure, but I think I must have steered you to an
> > out of date repository.
> > 
> > I checked with my installation which runs as expected and got the
> > following pointer:
> > 
> > https://docs.brew.sh
> > 
> > 
> > If you go there and follow the Installation link, you should have up to
> > date instructions. They're definitely different! Like everyone else,
> > seems homebrew brews on github, too!
> > 
> > My guess is that it will say something about an out of date or partial
> > install, and ask to remove or overwrite it. You'll happily say yes!
> > 
> > Or, it will just do it.
> > 
> > Let me know how it goes.
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries writes:
> >> Hi, Andrew:
> >> 
> >> Homebrew should be fine with Sierra. It's possible the link in the page
> >> you got from me was old. That would explain the error you got.
> >> 
> >> So, I'm thinking good clear instructions, but an old, out of date web
> >> pointer.
> >> 
> >> I'll check that out for you. Meanwhile, there's no damage done. You just
> 

Best way to do recorded remote interviews

[Eric Caron]

Hi listers,

I’d like to do remote interviews and record them.  I would need to have 
the format in a form I could edit on something like Amadeus Pro. 

I suspect there are people out there on this list, with experience doing this 
for podcasts and other audio productions. 

What would be a good tool to use.  I have a Mac book pro, Audio Hijack Amadeus 
Pro, and I could get a Zoom account or use Skype or FaceTime depending on the 
person I’m interviewing.  Most will have access to a iPhone but I can’t be sure 
of other peoples technology.

Recommendations are appreciated.

Eric Caron 

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Playing a dvd in catalina.

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Is anybody here using VLC as DVD player?
I have the Lord Of the rings with all the extra material which i would like to 
watch.
The problem i am having is that when i press command p to start playing the dvd 
it loops the menu.
Is t possible to just play the hole dvd with not having to select titles 
separately?
It drives me mad!!
AARGH! GOLLUM!

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RE: A couple Terminal questions

[Simon A Fogarty]

Well the last time I had home brew 
It made me really really ill,

 I was throwing up for hours.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Anders Holmberg
Sent: Monday, 30 March 2020 10:47 PM
To: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: A couple Terminal questions

Hi!
What does homebrew actually do?
Is this a library or what?
Thanks.
/A

> 30 mars 2020 kl. 11:33 skrev 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
> :
> 
> Janina,
> 
> I’ve looked carefully at Greg’s suggestion and then did a search for 
> Homebrew and TDSR and since the only thing i understand about Python 
> is that it is one of the programming languages, I thought I’m too 
> green around the gills to even attempt to play around with TDSR in 
> case I mess up my mac.  Would you agree? 
> 
> Andrew
>> On 30 Mar 2020, at 06:32, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks for the reminder, Greg. I'm just now starting the install of 
>> TDSR. For me that means an update of homebrew, followed by an upgrade 
>> of python3, and that is taking quite some time.
>> 
>> Hopeing the result will truly be easier to use than VO in the 
>> terminal, as you suggest. That would be a good thing, imo.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Janina
>> 
>> Greg Wocher writes:
>>> Hello,
>>> You might want to try the TDSR console screen reader for Mac. It makes 
>>> working with the terminal a bit easier. It can be found at:
>>> https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr 
>>> 
>>> Greg Wocher
>>> 
 On Mar 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the 
 window content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of 
 files in the directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe 
 even copy their names to clipboard or details about them if I were to use 
 the -l flag, which would produce long information about each item.
 
 Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut techniques 
 the author teaches is to start typing the name of a directory to which one 
 wishes to change and then pressing tab, which would result in Terminal 
 completing the name or else giving a list of available names if there 
 should be more than one.  This doesn’t seem to work.  When I press the 
 tab, I hear the ominous bong bong.  So this technique doesn’t work.  Any 
 thoughts on this?
 
 andrew
 
 --
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 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
 mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
 reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
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>>> 
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>>> Visionaries list.
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>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
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>>> 
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>>> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Janina Sajka
>> 
>> Linux Foundation Fellow
>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:http://a11y.org
>> 
>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
>> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries]

Hello Janina,

I think I’ve done it.  I’ve made TDSR talk with Daniel, British voice.  I’m 
exhausted and my nerves are jangling but I’m so glad.  by the time I become a 
mediocre cli user, I shall probably become an alcoholic too.  

I got the same warning message I’m pasting just underneath:
"You will encounter build failures with some formulae.
Please create pull requests instead of asking for help on Homebrew's GitHub,
Discourse, Twitter or IRC. You are responsible for resolving any issues you
experience while you are running this old version.”
But then I proceeded to reinstall python and as soon as I issued the command a 
brief message flashed across the screen saying updating Homebrew, so maybe 
Homebrew has been updated.  It would appear from what I’ve been reading on 
installation instructions that Sierra is supported but it says as best as 
possible. I guess Sierra was the first 64bit MacOs.  The rest of the 
installation went well and when I issued the final command ~/tdsr/tdsr I heard 
the familiar Daniel voice.  How fabulous!

On the same page, I’ve found instructions for installing TDSR on Linux, so I 
will try to do it too.  Should I be doing it as root?  By the way, talking of 
root, when I’m logged in as user, how do i find out whether I’ve given myself 
sudo privileges or not?  If not, can I still do it, or do I have to repeat the 
installation?  The instructions for linux tell me to install speech dispatcher 
and Python3.  Would I use the command. Install for them both and is speech 
dispatcher for installation purposes spelt as two words or one or with a hyphen?

Thank you very much again, Janina, for your help.  I’m a bit anxious having 
imposed on you and your time so do feel free to let me know if it’s too much.

Well, back to Joe Kissell’s Tutorial on Mastering the Command line in MacOS.  
Oh, one more thing.  I tried to change the shell in Terminal from Bash to Zsh 
with chsh /bin/zsh but it didn’t take.  Is it because I’m still running this 
Terminal on Sierra/. I’ve succeeded on my Catalina machine.

Andrew
> On 30 Mar 2020, at 15:44, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Again, Andrew:
> 
> Yeah, I can't say for sure, but I think I must have steered you to an
> out of date repository.
> 
> I checked with my installation which runs as expected and got the
> following pointer:
> 
> https://docs.brew.sh
> 
> 
> If you go there and follow the Installation link, you should have up to
> date instructions. They're definitely different! Like everyone else,
> seems homebrew brews on github, too!
> 
> My guess is that it will say something about an out of date or partial
> install, and ask to remove or overwrite it. You'll happily say yes!
> 
> Or, it will just do it.
> 
> Let me know how it goes.
> 
> Janina
> 
> 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries writes:
>> Hi, Andrew:
>> 
>> Homebrew should be fine with Sierra. It's possible the link in the page
>> you got from me was old. That would explain the error you got.
>> 
>> So, I'm thinking good clear instructions, but an old, out of date web
>> pointer.
>> 
>> I'll check that out for you. Meanwhile, there's no damage done. You just
>> don't have a usable homebrew. More soon.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Janina
>> 
>> 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes:
>>> Dear Janina,
>>> 
>>> Ok, so I have gone ahead and installed Homebrew.  Everything seems to have 
>>> gone ok apart from the fact that after executing the command to install 
>>> Homebrew, I got a warning message saying that this installation was old and 
>>> unsupported and whether I wanted to go ahead.  I ddid go ahead with it.  In 
>>> the instructions on the web page it says to run the command Homebrew doctor 
>>> to make sure whether the installation has been executed successfully.  I 
>>> did run the command but obtained no feedback.  One point I should have 
>>> clarified is that I have installed Homebrew on Mac OS Sierra I run on this 
>>> particular machine.  I’m still in Sierra on this laptop because of the 
>>> Greek voice which I need and which was broken in High Sierra and has not 
>>> been fixed by Apple since although I’ve been reporting it for over 4 years. 
>>>  So I(i have to keep this computer behind.  I might try to install Homebrew 
>>> on Catalina later.
>>> 
>>> Janina, you say something about Nano editor.  Should I already have it on 
>>> my mac, or do I need to download it?  I’ve paused going ahead with the rest 
>>> of the instructions until I hear from you on Nano Editor.  Don’t want to 
>>> break anything.  
>>> 
>>> Andrew
 On 30 Mar 2020, at 10:59, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 Hi, Andrew:
 
 I can, and sbelow will, walk you through getting homebrew installed on
 your Mac. It's just useful to have it.
 
 What it does: Allows you to run a lot of Linux utilities directly on
 your Mac terminal.
 
 Now, for tdsr, which I presume means something like "terminal desktop
 screen 

Re: OT: anybody on the list using Linux in VMWare or on a separate machine? Pls answer off list

[maurice mines]

Hi Unita, interesting take on the mailer situation and/or fix, did you ever get 
my message about which distribution makes the best sense to run on a virtual 
machine on the same computer as I only have one computer. And one note taker.

I’m trying to decide between Ubuntu 19, or the talking arched Lennix 
distribution that I downloaded. The issue with Ubuntu is getting some kind of 
software speech out of it. Since I certainly cannot rely on VoiceOver, or is 
there a way to make this work?

Sincerely Maurice Mines.

> On Mar 29, 2020, at 22:23, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Andrew:
> 
> I will attempt my own answer to your questions. Karen will likely have
> her own answer for you.
> 
> I'm unaccustomed to hearing that term applied to a machine running a
> Linux as it's one and only OS; however, it is true that you can do a lot
> from the Linux CLI. Looking at the items in your list one by one:
> 
> email
> 
> Absolutely. Current best choice, imo, would be mutt for your user agent.
> That's what I'm using write now to write this email to you.
> 
> You can run your complete email solution, in fact. You'll notice my
> emails don't come from some third party, but rather from my own personal
> domain, rednote.net, where I accept emails from the Internet and send
> out via the Internet. I happen to use an application called sendmail as
> my MTA, my "mail transfer agent." Were I starting from scratch today,
> I'd probably rather go with postfix than sendmail.
> 
> Web browser
> 
> I still use lynx all the time. However, there's much it can't do today
> for which a graphical-based browser is essential.
> 
> So the answer here is, "no."
> 
> document creation
> 
> Absolutely yes.
> 
> You will soon need to decide whether you're a vim or an emacs kind of
> person. Those are the two top choices for character based editing tools
> on the cli. There are a few others, but you really want to settle one
> one or the other of these. The choice between these two is very much
> about personal preference. Ask for advice and you risk retriggering the
> oldest flame war in starnixland: i.e. star nix for *nix meaning all the
> various flavors of unix like systems including Linux, and including the
> BSD on which Apple is based.
> 
> You'll also use tools like pandoc and markdown.
> 
> Your senior level thesis will be written in latex, which you can then
> use for the remainder of your days.
> 
> PS: I am also my own phone company via my Linux server. Yet another
> story for another day.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Janina
> 
> 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes:
>> I’m going to show my utter ignorance.  What do you mean by virgin only linux 
>> machine?  I don’t lack education but in computers/operating systems, I’m a 
>> baby so I need little steps.  So do you mean pure Linux?  And does this 
>> exist?  Can we therefore run email, web browser, document creation like in 
>> an office suite only from command line? I’d like to think that and would 
>> happily work hard to attempt to learn.  Is this what’s meant?
>> 
>> Andrew
>>> On 29 Mar 2020, at 19:07, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> If I follow, that would not be the case  if one created a virgin Linux only 
>>> machine  though correct?
>>> having never been a windows user, I was simply  wondering if one could use 
>>> the   Linux command line platform in its entirety, but it seems that is not 
>>> the case.
>>> These days even DOS has Links the chain.
>>> And   as you did not include elinks I am guessing that browser tool is no 
>>> longer an option?
>>> 
>>> Kare
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sun, 29 Mar 2020, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> 
 Karen:
 
 It would be the same as you're already familiar with from other Linux
 situations. It's just the plain old Linux console, so the two likely
 options are lynx the cat or links the chain.
 
 Of course, you still have the option to Alt-TAB your way to the Windows
 desktop for Chrome, Firefox, or Edge.
 
 Best,
 
 Janina
 
 Karen Lewellen writes:
> Enjoying this exchange.
> I am wondering what browsers are used in  either this command line
> environment, or the one you illustrated for Andrew?
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, 29 Mar 2020, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> 
>> Hi, Simon:
>> 
>> Yes, but not the graphical desktop of Ubuntu, and not the audio device
>> drivers either. Just the command line environment.
>> 
>> Learn more here:
>> 
>> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install-win10
>> 
>> 
>> Note I haven't tried this under bootcamp, though I'd expect it to work.
>> 
>> Note also that I choose my words above carefully. It strikes me that
>> many people don't grok the import of command line interface only.
>> Perhaps it's because the Terminal application available in the OS X
>> Utilities folder seems such an afterthought to many 

Friendly for Mac?

[Traci Duncan]

Hi, I was about to download the Twitter app for Mac, and came across Friendly. 
I remember years ago I used friendly for facebook on my iPad. Is anyone 
familiar with Friendly for Twitter on the Mac? I like the idea of having 
Twitter and Facebook on one platform.

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/friendly-for-twitter/id1418401222?mt=12 


Thoughts?

Thanks,
Traci

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Re: Mac Mini Now On Order

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Simon,

I would guess that it has to do with ergonomics and style.  They like to make 
sure that there is no unnecessary bulk to their devices.  Now, that being said, 
it is a huge inconvenience that the charging port is located where it is and 
have expressed it to many people I deal with.  I have not mentioned it to Apple 
though as I'm just a pee-on and my input doesn't mean a heck of a lot.  Good 
question though :).

Later...


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Mar 30, 2020, at 02:21, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:

Actually Tim,
 
Answer me this one,
 
I’ve always wondered why apple put the lightening port on the bottom of the 
mouse meaning you can’t use it when it’s being charged,
 
Now we all think you know everything hence we call you apple god,
 
So why did that be done?
 
From: 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Monday, 30 March 2020 4:05 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mac Mini Now On Order
 
Hi,
 
To add to Brad's info, for the mouse, when bottom up so that you have access to 
the charging port, the port would be at six o'clock and the power switch would 
be at about 1 o'clock.  move the switch up to power on and down to power off.  
Similar to the keyboard as Brad explained, the initial pairing of the mouse can 
be done by plugging in the charge cable to your Mac.
 
HTH.
 
Later...
 

Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada
 
On Mar 29, 2020, at 01:29, Brad Snyder mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
 
The bluetooth keyboard is powered by an internal rechargeable battery.  A 
Lightning to USB-A cable is included with the keyboard for charging, just like 
an iPhone.  This cable can also be used for initial pairing with the mac mini.
The Lightning port is located dead-center along the top edge of the keyboard.  
The little slide switch you feel is used to turn power on/off.
 
If you purchased a Magic Bluetooth mouse, it also comes with a Lightning to 
USB-A cable for charging and initial pairing.  The Lightning port on the mouse 
is on the bottom side of the mouse.  It is hard to find, but it is located a 
little forward of center.  There may also be a power switch on the mouse, but 
I’m not sure where it is.  My wife has one of these units, but I don’t use one 
myself because I prefer to use a trackpad.
 
Battery life on both is pretty good.  Depending on your use, you may only need 
to charge the keyboard and mouse about once a month, of course your mileage may 
vary.
 
HTH

- Brad -

 
On Mar 29, 2020, at 01:46, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
wrote:
 
Thanks, Brad. This is incredibly valuable info to me.


Do you know about powering the bluetooth keyboard? I would imagine
there's some kind of batteries involved, but I can find nothing that
feels like a compartment for them. I feel the tiny little slide switch
on the upper right hand outer corner. But, my Airbook doesn't offer the
keyboard for pairing whichever slide position I have the keyboard switch
in.

Thanks!

Janina

Brad Snyder writes:

Janina,

The Mac mini’s power button is on the right rear corner.  You should have no 
trouble finding it.

I use an older Mac USB keyboard from 2006 on my mini, but my wife has a newer 
version on her iMac with the same layout as the newer full-size bluetooth 
keyboards.
The Qwerty area is pretty much the same as on your MB Air, with a few 
exceptions:
1.  The Fn key is relocated to the upper left corner of the “six pack” extended 
key area, where the Insert key is normally located.
2.  There are 3 keys on either side of the spacebar, so you get a second CTRL 
key.
3.  the Eject key is located to the right of the F12 key, same as on the MB 
Air's keyboard.
4.  There are additional F-keys located above the six-pack area and the NumPad 
area.  I have never found a use for these keys.

You can of course turn on VO’s keyboard help to explore the keyboard.
If you connect the USB keyboard to the Mac mini with the included USB to  
Lightning cable, it will automatically pair.  Same is true for a bluetooth 
mouse.

HTH

- Brad -


On Mar 28, 2020, at 05:37, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
wrote:

Hi, Bard:

I got the full ekyboard with numeric keypad. Despite that, it's still
quite compellingly compact.

I'm not sure I know what all the keys are. Do you know of a writeup
somewhere about the physical key layout?

Frankly, I have the same question about the Mini itself. I'm wondering
whether I'll guess it's various ports. I imagine I'l get most of them,
but there may still be some uncertainty. For instance, how does one turn
it on?

When I got my Airbook back in 2014 I literally had to call a Mac using
friend to say: "How do you turn this thing on?"

It also took me a bit to figure out how the power supply came apart and
then back together in particular 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Again, Andrew:

Yeah, I can't say for sure, but I think I must have steered you to an
out of date repository.

I checked with my installation which runs as expected and got the
following pointer:

https://docs.brew.sh


If you go there and follow the Installation link, you should have up to
date instructions. They're definitely different! Like everyone else,
seems homebrew brews on github, too!

My guess is that it will say something about an out of date or partial
install, and ask to remove or overwrite it. You'll happily say yes!

Or, it will just do it.

Let me know how it goes.

Janina

'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries writes:
> Hi, Andrew:
> 
> Homebrew should be fine with Sierra. It's possible the link in the page
> you got from me was old. That would explain the error you got.
> 
> So, I'm thinking good clear instructions, but an old, out of date web
> pointer.
> 
> I'll check that out for you. Meanwhile, there's no damage done. You just
> don't have a usable homebrew. More soon.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Janina
> 
> 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes:
> > Dear Janina,
> > 
> > Ok, so I have gone ahead and installed Homebrew.  Everything seems to have 
> > gone ok apart from the fact that after executing the command to install 
> > Homebrew, I got a warning message saying that this installation was old and 
> > unsupported and whether I wanted to go ahead.  I ddid go ahead with it.  In 
> > the instructions on the web page it says to run the command Homebrew doctor 
> > to make sure whether the installation has been executed successfully.  I 
> > did run the command but obtained no feedback.  One point I should have 
> > clarified is that I have installed Homebrew on Mac OS Sierra I run on this 
> > particular machine.  I’m still in Sierra on this laptop because of the 
> > Greek voice which I need and which was broken in High Sierra and has not 
> > been fixed by Apple since although I’ve been reporting it for over 4 years. 
> >  So I(i have to keep this computer behind.  I might try to install Homebrew 
> > on Catalina later.
> > 
> > Janina, you say something about Nano editor.  Should I already have it on 
> > my mac, or do I need to download it?  I’ve paused going ahead with the rest 
> > of the instructions until I hear from you on Nano Editor.  Don’t want to 
> > break anything.  
> > 
> > Andrew
> > > On 30 Mar 2020, at 10:59, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> > >  wrote:
> > > 
> > > Hi, Andrew:
> > > 
> > > I can, and sbelow will, walk you through getting homebrew installed on
> > > your Mac. It's just useful to have it.
> > > 
> > > What it does: Allows you to run a lot of Linux utilities directly on
> > > your Mac terminal.
> > > 
> > > Now, for tdsr, which I presume means something like "terminal desktop
> > > screen readner,' or something similar. I'm just guessing ...
> > > 
> > > I got it running. I launched while ssh'd into my machine. That did
> > > several things:
> > > 
> > > * Launched tdsr on my Mac Airbook. That's a good thing.
> > > 
> > > * Made my Mac respond with speech to every command I typed in my
> > > * ssh session. That's a bad thing.
> > > 
> > > * The Mac would not respond to a tap of the Ctrl. That's a bad
> > > * thing. Shutting speech up is almost as important as getting
> > > * speech happening. You can't be efficient if you can't stop
> > > * speech, and go on to your next command. And, every platform out
> > > * there, Windows, Mac, Linux all the screen readers shutup when
> > > * you tap Ctrl. Maybe that's in the configuration part I didn't
> > > * yet deal with, but it should be a builtin default, imo.
> > > 
> > > * Doing Alt-TAB on the Mac didn't shut TDSR up either. That's also
> > > * a bad thing, imo. A terminal level application should be
> > > * sufficiently context aware to know when it's no longer the
> > > * foreground app and the right thing in that situation, again imo,
> > > * is to shut up immediately.
> > > 
> > > So, I'm going to show you homebroew, I even suggest you get it for the
> > > silly little calculator script I provided in another email. You do want
> > > to start writing scripts fairly soon, but I don't know whether tdsr is
> > > ready for serious use just yet.
> > > 
> > > So, with that disclaimer, here's a web page with very good instructions
> > > on installing and using homebrew:
> > > 
> > > https://www.studytonight.com/post/what-is-homebrew-and-how-to-install-it-on-mac-osx
> > > 
> > > NOTE: There's a step in the above web page where they have you use an
> > > application called nano to edit your .bash_profile file. Nano is OK,
> > > though not as good as vim or emacs. For now, no problem using it, but
> > > you will need to pick up vim or emacs in the next couple months--another
> > > conversation.
> > > 
> > > I digress. You do want to edit, probably .zshrc -- but as I said in that
> > > entertained you (you're welcome, we do all need a smile early and often
> > > each day) I'm not up to speed on just those kinds of 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Hi, Andrew:

Homebrew should be fine with Sierra. It's possible the link in the page
you got from me was old. That would explain the error you got.

So, I'm thinking good clear instructions, but an old, out of date web
pointer.

I'll check that out for you. Meanwhile, there's no damage done. You just
don't have a usable homebrew. More soon.

Best,

Janina

'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes:
> Dear Janina,
> 
> Ok, so I have gone ahead and installed Homebrew.  Everything seems to have 
> gone ok apart from the fact that after executing the command to install 
> Homebrew, I got a warning message saying that this installation was old and 
> unsupported and whether I wanted to go ahead.  I ddid go ahead with it.  In 
> the instructions on the web page it says to run the command Homebrew doctor 
> to make sure whether the installation has been executed successfully.  I did 
> run the command but obtained no feedback.  One point I should have clarified 
> is that I have installed Homebrew on Mac OS Sierra I run on this particular 
> machine.  I’m still in Sierra on this laptop because of the Greek voice which 
> I need and which was broken in High Sierra and has not been fixed by Apple 
> since although I’ve been reporting it for over 4 years.  So I(i have to keep 
> this computer behind.  I might try to install Homebrew on Catalina later.
> 
> Janina, you say something about Nano editor.  Should I already have it on my 
> mac, or do I need to download it?  I’ve paused going ahead with the rest of 
> the instructions until I hear from you on Nano Editor.  Don’t want to break 
> anything.  
> 
> Andrew
> > On 30 Mar 2020, at 10:59, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Hi, Andrew:
> > 
> > I can, and sbelow will, walk you through getting homebrew installed on
> > your Mac. It's just useful to have it.
> > 
> > What it does: Allows you to run a lot of Linux utilities directly on
> > your Mac terminal.
> > 
> > Now, for tdsr, which I presume means something like "terminal desktop
> > screen readner,' or something similar. I'm just guessing ...
> > 
> > I got it running. I launched while ssh'd into my machine. That did
> > several things:
> > 
> > *   Launched tdsr on my Mac Airbook. That's a good thing.
> > 
> > *   Made my Mac respond with speech to every command I typed in my
> > *   ssh session. That's a bad thing.
> > 
> > *   The Mac would not respond to a tap of the Ctrl. That's a bad
> > *   thing. Shutting speech up is almost as important as getting
> > *   speech happening. You can't be efficient if you can't stop
> > *   speech, and go on to your next command. And, every platform out
> > *   there, Windows, Mac, Linux all the screen readers shutup when
> > *   you tap Ctrl. Maybe that's in the configuration part I didn't
> > *   yet deal with, but it should be a builtin default, imo.
> > 
> > *   Doing Alt-TAB on the Mac didn't shut TDSR up either. That's also
> > *   a bad thing, imo. A terminal level application should be
> > *   sufficiently context aware to know when it's no longer the
> > *   foreground app and the right thing in that situation, again imo,
> > *   is to shut up immediately.
> > 
> > So, I'm going to show you homebroew, I even suggest you get it for the
> > silly little calculator script I provided in another email. You do want
> > to start writing scripts fairly soon, but I don't know whether tdsr is
> > ready for serious use just yet.
> > 
> > So, with that disclaimer, here's a web page with very good instructions
> > on installing and using homebrew:
> > 
> > https://www.studytonight.com/post/what-is-homebrew-and-how-to-install-it-on-mac-osx
> > 
> > NOTE: There's a step in the above web page where they have you use an
> > application called nano to edit your .bash_profile file. Nano is OK,
> > though not as good as vim or emacs. For now, no problem using it, but
> > you will need to pick up vim or emacs in the next couple months--another
> > conversation.
> > 
> > I digress. You do want to edit, probably .zshrc -- but as I said in that
> > entertained you (you're welcome, we do all need a smile early and often
> > each day) I'm not up to speed on just those kinds of facts. It's part of
> > why I haven't jumped ship from bash to zsh yet myself. What do I do with
> > all my profile customizations?
> > 
> > Anyway, the explanation of why you want /usr/local in your path ahead of
> > everything else is very spot on. The how to do it in zsh is where I'm
> > stumbling.
> > 
> > Best,
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > 
> > 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes:
> >> Janina,
> >> 
> >> I’ve looked carefully at Greg’s suggestion and then did a search for 
> >> Homebrew and TDSR and since the only thing i understand about Python is 
> >> that it is one of the programming languages, I thought I’m too green 
> >> around the gills to even attempt to play around with TDSR in case I mess 
> >> up my mac.  Would you agree?  
> >> 
> >> Andrew
> >>> On 30 Mar 2020, at 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries]

Dear Janina,

Ok, so I have gone ahead and installed Homebrew.  Everything seems to have gone 
ok apart from the fact that after executing the command to install Homebrew, I 
got a warning message saying that this installation was old and unsupported and 
whether I wanted to go ahead.  I ddid go ahead with it.  In the instructions on 
the web page it says to run the command Homebrew doctor to make sure whether 
the installation has been executed successfully.  I did run the command but 
obtained no feedback.  One point I should have clarified is that I have 
installed Homebrew on Mac OS Sierra I run on this particular machine.  I’m 
still in Sierra on this laptop because of the Greek voice which I need and 
which was broken in High Sierra and has not been fixed by Apple since although 
I’ve been reporting it for over 4 years.  So I(i have to keep this computer 
behind.  I might try to install Homebrew on Catalina later.

Janina, you say something about Nano editor.  Should I already have it on my 
mac, or do I need to download it?  I’ve paused going ahead with the rest of the 
instructions until I hear from you on Nano Editor.  Don’t want to break 
anything.  

Andrew
> On 30 Mar 2020, at 10:59, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi, Andrew:
> 
> I can, and sbelow will, walk you through getting homebrew installed on
> your Mac. It's just useful to have it.
> 
> What it does: Allows you to run a lot of Linux utilities directly on
> your Mac terminal.
> 
> Now, for tdsr, which I presume means something like "terminal desktop
> screen readner,' or something similar. I'm just guessing ...
> 
> I got it running. I launched while ssh'd into my machine. That did
> several things:
> 
> * Launched tdsr on my Mac Airbook. That's a good thing.
> 
> * Made my Mac respond with speech to every command I typed in my
> * ssh session. That's a bad thing.
> 
> * The Mac would not respond to a tap of the Ctrl. That's a bad
> * thing. Shutting speech up is almost as important as getting
> * speech happening. You can't be efficient if you can't stop
> * speech, and go on to your next command. And, every platform out
> * there, Windows, Mac, Linux all the screen readers shutup when
> * you tap Ctrl. Maybe that's in the configuration part I didn't
> * yet deal with, but it should be a builtin default, imo.
> 
> * Doing Alt-TAB on the Mac didn't shut TDSR up either. That's also
> * a bad thing, imo. A terminal level application should be
> * sufficiently context aware to know when it's no longer the
> * foreground app and the right thing in that situation, again imo,
> * is to shut up immediately.
> 
> So, I'm going to show you homebroew, I even suggest you get it for the
> silly little calculator script I provided in another email. You do want
> to start writing scripts fairly soon, but I don't know whether tdsr is
> ready for serious use just yet.
> 
> So, with that disclaimer, here's a web page with very good instructions
> on installing and using homebrew:
> 
> https://www.studytonight.com/post/what-is-homebrew-and-how-to-install-it-on-mac-osx
> 
> NOTE: There's a step in the above web page where they have you use an
> application called nano to edit your .bash_profile file. Nano is OK,
> though not as good as vim or emacs. For now, no problem using it, but
> you will need to pick up vim or emacs in the next couple months--another
> conversation.
> 
> I digress. You do want to edit, probably .zshrc -- but as I said in that
> entertained you (you're welcome, we do all need a smile early and often
> each day) I'm not up to speed on just those kinds of facts. It's part of
> why I haven't jumped ship from bash to zsh yet myself. What do I do with
> all my profile customizations?
> 
> Anyway, the explanation of why you want /usr/local in your path ahead of
> everything else is very spot on. The how to do it in zsh is where I'm
> stumbling.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Janina
> 
> 
> 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes:
>> Janina,
>> 
>> I’ve looked carefully at Greg’s suggestion and then did a search for 
>> Homebrew and TDSR and since the only thing i understand about Python is that 
>> it is one of the programming languages, I thought I’m too green around the 
>> gills to even attempt to play around with TDSR in case I mess up my mac.  
>> Would you agree?  
>> 
>> Andrew
>>> On 30 Mar 2020, at 06:32, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the reminder, Greg. I'm just now starting the install of
>>> TDSR. For me that means an update of homebrew, followed by an upgrade of
>>> python3, and that is taking quite some time.
>>> 
>>> Hopeing the result will truly be easier to use than VO in the terminal,
>>> as you suggest. That would be a good thing, imo.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Janina
>>> 
>>> Greg Wocher writes:
 Hello,
 You might want to try the TDSR console screen reader for Mac. It makes 
 working with the terminal a 

Re: the 3rd USB flash drive with the same issue

[Ramy Moustafa Saber رامي مصطفى صابر]

Hi:

No, it is 32 GB


> On Mar 29, 2020, at 3:14 AM, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Possibly because of the size of the USB device’s storage,
>  
> Fat32 could be greyed out if the drive is over something like 64 gb
>  
> Or because you need to partition it first to ensure no mac os format is on it 
> before formatting as fat 32.
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>  > On Behalf Of Ramy Moustafa Saber 
>  ? 
> Sent: Sunday, 29 March 2020 7:23 AM
> To: mac mailing list  >
> Subject: Re: the 3rd USB flash drive with the same issue
>  
> Just to Clear things.
> when i choose Fat32, the eras button is demmbed, with no reason.
> but when i choose X-fat, it’s working, is there any reason for this?
>  
> 
> 
> On Mar 27, 2020, at 10:31 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
>  
> Hi,
>  
> When I used the word "wipe", yes, that is the same as erase.  So, go into 
> Disk Utility on the Mac, locate and  select the USB stick, then erase it.  
> FAT32 should be fine, or EXFAT would work as well.
>  
> Later...
>  
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Jamf Certified Tech
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>  
> On Mar 27, 2020, at 13:47, ⁨Ramy Moustafa Saber رامي مصطفى 
> صابر⁩<⁨ramy.moustaf...@gmail.com ⁩> wrote:
>  
> WHat proparties you mean?
> 
> 
> On Mar 27, 2020, at 6:31 AM, PRAMIT BHARGAVA  > wrote:
>  
> Hi,
>  
> Format your USB drive and don't use quite format for this. Also go to the 
> properties and adjust it for best performance, rather than quick removal.
> And hopefully this will fix the problem.
>  
> Pramit
>  
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 9:05 PM Ramy Moustafa  > wrote:
> Hi all:
> Hope everyone is safe.
> This is the 3rd Flash drive that i bought, I got Kingstone, Transend, and 
> Toshiba, and the same result.
> I did not format this Drive, i left it with the Factory Format which is 
> Fat32, Am using it to move data between Mac and windows, the problem that Is 
> happening on the 3 drives is that the drive is getting slower and slower with 
> no reason, this is not just on my mac, i tried it on my Friend’s mac, and the 
> same result, so, what can cause this? and is there away to avoid this?
> I amde a scan for errors and the 3 drives are ok, no virus,Need technical 
> Advice.
> Thanks in advance 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
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>  
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> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
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> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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> 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Thanks, Greg.

This is helpful.

If I believe I find a bug, or if I have an RFE, shall I simply open an
issue on github?

Thanks again for forwarding this info.

Janina

Greg Wocher writes:
> Hello,
> Here is a podcast dedicated to learning the terminal on the Mac. It is called 
> taming the terminal. 
> https://www.bartbusschots.ie/s/blog/taming-the-terminal/ 
> 
> 
> There is also a text tutorial for each of the individual podcasts.
> 
> Greg Wocher
> 
> > On Mar 30, 2020, at 6:40 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Hi Janina,
> > 
> > Just to report that I have just successfully put the info from ls -l 
> > command into a text file using redirection and the greater than > sign.  
> > It’s worked!  How clever.  So exciting!  When you use in your description 
> > the verb “sound”, do you mean send/write content or result of the command 
> > into a file?
> > 
> > I think I’d better leave the Homebrew and gawk alone. . I think you 
> > meant it for Simon, as he’s obviously very adept at cli already.
> > 
> > I will have to go through your budget example very carefully a few times to 
> > attempt to understand exactly how it’s done.  But it’s impressive as well.
> > 
> > By the way, Janina, how does one run, say, a browser from the command 
> > line/terminal?  It is probably a special browser and once you run it, do 
> > you access the info on the webpage in the usual way?  I’m asking with 
> > trepidation aware of possibly sounding like a fool.
> > 
> > Best
> > 
> > Andrew
> >> On 30 Mar 2020, at 09:40, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >>  wrote:
> >> 
> >> Simon, Andrew, All:
> >> 
> >> Simon is correct. The correct switches will indeed allow you to write
> >> the output of any command to a file. This works everywhere, because
> >> everybody wants this kind of functionality--whether Mac, Windows, or
> >> Linux/Unix.
> >> 
> >> It's called redirection, and it goes one of two ways:
> >> 
> >> Using the greater than symbol, namely '>' you send output somewhere.
> >> Using my last example of the env command, here's a command that sounds
> >> the output of env into a file:
> >> 
> >> env > my_environment.txt
> >> 
> >> The other direction reads input FROM somewhere.
> >> 
> >> The symbol for this is the less than symbol, i.e. '<' and takes
> >> whatever is in the file as input into the command.
> >> 
> >> The uses of this second one are a bit harder for newbies to understand,
> >> but trust me, you're going to love it.
> >> 
> >> Here's a quick and dirty example. Unfortunately, you first have to get
> >> the gawk command installed, as the script below uses gaw.
> >> 
> >> If you have homebrew, the task is simple:
> >> 
> >> homebrew install gawk
> >> 
> >> Back to an example of indirection: Need to sum your monthly budget? Keep
> >> your income and expenses in an ascii text file where the first word is a
> >> number. Positive numbers are for income, and negative numbers for
> >> expenses: eg.,
> >> 
> >> 1000 weekly check from my boss for working too hard
> >> -90 this months utility bill
> >> 
> >> Need comments in your file? No problem. Any first word not a number is
> >> just ignored, and you can temporarily even take numbers out of the
> >> calculation by commenting them, e.g.:
> >> 
> >> #70 cell phone service--just paid it
> >> 
> >> Now create the following as a script file, meaning take this content and
> >> make it executable:
> >> 
> >> 
> >> #!/bin/bash
> >> gawk '{ sum += $1 }; END { print sum }'
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Bingo, you've got a script in a file, meaning you've got a new command.
> >> I call mine 'sumit' as in sum it. So, if my income and expenses are in a
> >> file called budget.txt, I can simply do:
> >> 
> >> sumit  >> 
> >> And hear I've got 910 left.
> >> 
> >> Simon A Fogarty writes:
> >>> Hi Andrew,
> >>> 
> >>> Terminal should let you do what your after,
> >>> 
> >>> With the listing of files and if you use the correct switchs  you should 
> >>> be able to write the list of files and associated data to a file  
> >>> I know it's possible to do this in ms dos and power shell, so I would 
> >>> think linux etc would do the same thing.
> >>> 
> >>> As for tab complete in the terminal,
> >>> 
> >>> So long as you have the name correct to the point you hit the tab key 
> >>> then it should work for you.
> >>> As long as there is a file or folder name with what your looking for.
> >>> 
> >>> I use it when typing long commands like
> >>> Sudo /Applications
> >>> At the start of the creation of a bootable Usb flash drive.
> >>> 
> >>> So as long as you have the name correct including any uppercase or 
> >>> symbols in the name then tab complete should be fine
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
> >>>  
> >>> Sent: Monday, 30 March 2020 3:22 AM
> >>> To: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
> >>> Subject: A couple Terminal questions
> >>> 
> >>> Hi,

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Hi, Andrew:

A couple responses to your questions here up top:

1.) Sounds -- Usually it's some kind of audio file, not speech. You
might call it a boing, or a bleep, or whatever. In W3C we sometimes call
them sonicons, or even earcons (punning on a mispelling of icons as eye
cons). If you press TAB for TAB completion and get a "sound," instead of
the command or filename getting filled out, it's because there's more
than one possible completion. In that situation, you have to type a few
more chars. TAB completion can't finish the job until there's only one
answer.

Jumping to the browser question, it's an executable that runs only in
text in the terminal, so you execute it like any other command. Once in
the browser the commands are a bit different, but not so different that
it's hard. Down arrow takes you through links, for instance, in lynx the
cat,. We started saying lynx the cat, because there's another browser
that's a homonym, links the chain.

There are a couple of settings you need for your lynx configuration file
before it's easy to use with a screen reader. Absolutely you want the
setting called "Show_Cursor," and probably also "Links and form fields are 
numbered." These can be typed on the command line when you start the browser, 
but it's quicker to have them in your .lynxrc file to automatically take effect 
every time you start lynx.

By the way, notice the rc at the 3end of that file name. There are lots
of these in starnix land. The rc stands for "run control," which rather
explains what these fiels to, they control how the application runs. The
period at the start of the filename indicates these are hidden files
that don't show up in an ls file list, unless you provide the -a flag to
also show hidden files.

Good job using the double greater than syntax to redirect output into a
file. That's smarter than the advice I gave you earlier this morning.
Here's how:

A single > will also redirect, but it will overwrite anything that's
already in that same filename.

The double >> syntax appends the output to the end of the file, so you
lose nothing that's already there.

So, it's safer to always do the >>, unless you know you really want to
overwrite the existing data in a particular filename.


Let me als encourage you to go ahead and try installing homebrew. It's
really not that hard, and you'll have a very useful tool when you're
done.

Also, on the budgeting calculator, don't worry too much about
understanding the how and why of the gawk line in the script. Yes,
that's the one that does all the work, and you'll want to know those
kinds of things eventually.

But, think of it this way -- One doesn't need to understand all the
engineering involved in making a car that will run and take people down
the Interstate in order to successfully drive across country. So,
similarly, you can look at these suggestions from the higher level and
just practice putting them into effect, without necessarily
understanding all the inner workings.

Of course, this being a computer thing, you have to trust the
source--that it's not going to do you damage. You don't just want to run
any old program you find somewhere. So, let me just assert that there's
nothing malicious in the code I posted, and stake my years of reputation
on various blind lists on that claim.

PS: awk and sed are extremely powerful tools that lie underneath a lot
of what some of the higher level tools like homebrew do. Get good at sed
and awk and you'll find employment on just those skills.

More soon!

Best,

Janina

'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes:
> Hi Janina,
> 
> Just to report that I have just successfully put the info from ls -l command 
> into a text file using redirection and the greater than > sign.  It’s worked! 
>  How clever.  So exciting!  When you use in your description the verb 
> “sound”, do you mean send/write content or result of the command into a file?
> 
> I think I’d better leave the Homebrew and gawk alone. . I think you 
> meant it for Simon, as he’s obviously very adept at cli already.
> 
> I will have to go through your budget example very carefully a few times to 
> attempt to understand exactly how it’s done.  But it’s impressive as well.
> 
> By the way, Janina, how does one run, say, a browser from the command 
> line/terminal?  It is probably a special browser and once you run it, do you 
> access the info on the webpage in the usual way?  I’m asking with trepidation 
> aware of possibly sounding like a fool.
> 
> Best
> 
> Andrew
> > On 30 Mar 2020, at 09:40, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Simon, Andrew, All:
> > 
> > Simon is correct. The correct switches will indeed allow you to write
> > the output of any command to a file. This works everywhere, because
> > everybody wants this kind of functionality--whether Mac, Windows, or
> > Linux/Unix.
> > 
> > It's called redirection, and it goes one of two ways:
> > 
> > Using the greater than symbol, namely '>' you send 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

[Greg Wocher]

Hello,
Here is a podcast dedicated to learning the terminal on the Mac. It is called 
taming the terminal. 
https://www.bartbusschots.ie/s/blog/taming-the-terminal/ 


There is also a text tutorial for each of the individual podcasts.

Greg Wocher

> On Mar 30, 2020, at 6:40 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Janina,
> 
> Just to report that I have just successfully put the info from ls -l command 
> into a text file using redirection and the greater than > sign.  It’s worked! 
>  How clever.  So exciting!  When you use in your description the verb 
> “sound”, do you mean send/write content or result of the command into a file?
> 
> I think I’d better leave the Homebrew and gawk alone. . I think you 
> meant it for Simon, as he’s obviously very adept at cli already.
> 
> I will have to go through your budget example very carefully a few times to 
> attempt to understand exactly how it’s done.  But it’s impressive as well.
> 
> By the way, Janina, how does one run, say, a browser from the command 
> line/terminal?  It is probably a special browser and once you run it, do you 
> access the info on the webpage in the usual way?  I’m asking with trepidation 
> aware of possibly sounding like a fool.
> 
> Best
> 
> Andrew
>> On 30 Mar 2020, at 09:40, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Simon, Andrew, All:
>> 
>> Simon is correct. The correct switches will indeed allow you to write
>> the output of any command to a file. This works everywhere, because
>> everybody wants this kind of functionality--whether Mac, Windows, or
>> Linux/Unix.
>> 
>> It's called redirection, and it goes one of two ways:
>> 
>> Using the greater than symbol, namely '>' you send output somewhere.
>> Using my last example of the env command, here's a command that sounds
>> the output of env into a file:
>> 
>> env > my_environment.txt
>> 
>> The other direction reads input FROM somewhere.
>> 
>> The symbol for this is the less than symbol, i.e. '<' and takes
>> whatever is in the file as input into the command.
>> 
>> The uses of this second one are a bit harder for newbies to understand,
>> but trust me, you're going to love it.
>> 
>> Here's a quick and dirty example. Unfortunately, you first have to get
>> the gawk command installed, as the script below uses gaw.
>> 
>> If you have homebrew, the task is simple:
>> 
>> homebrew install gawk
>> 
>> Back to an example of indirection: Need to sum your monthly budget? Keep
>> your income and expenses in an ascii text file where the first word is a
>> number. Positive numbers are for income, and negative numbers for
>> expenses: eg.,
>> 
>> 1000 weekly check from my boss for working too hard
>> -90 this months utility bill
>> 
>> Need comments in your file? No problem. Any first word not a number is
>> just ignored, and you can temporarily even take numbers out of the
>> calculation by commenting them, e.g.:
>> 
>> #70 cell phone service--just paid it
>> 
>> Now create the following as a script file, meaning take this content and
>> make it executable:
>> 
>> 
>> #!/bin/bash
>> gawk '{ sum += $1 }; END { print sum }'
>> 
>> 
>> Bingo, you've got a script in a file, meaning you've got a new command.
>> I call mine 'sumit' as in sum it. So, if my income and expenses are in a
>> file called budget.txt, I can simply do:
>> 
>> sumit > 
>> And hear I've got 910 left.
>> 
>> Simon A Fogarty writes:
>>> Hi Andrew,
>>> 
>>> Terminal should let you do what your after,
>>> 
>>> With the listing of files and if you use the correct switchs  you should be 
>>> able to write the list of files and associated data to a file  
>>> I know it's possible to do this in ms dos and power shell, so I would think 
>>> linux etc would do the same thing.
>>> 
>>> As for tab complete in the terminal,
>>> 
>>> So long as you have the name correct to the point you hit the tab key then 
>>> it should work for you.
>>> As long as there is a file or folder name with what your looking for.
>>> 
>>> I use it when typing long commands like
>>> Sudo /Applications
>>> At the start of the creation of a bootable Usb flash drive.
>>> 
>>> So as long as you have the name correct including any uppercase or symbols 
>>> in the name then tab complete should be fine
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  
>>> Sent: Monday, 30 March 2020 3:22 AM
>>> To: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>> Subject: A couple Terminal questions
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the 
>>> window content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of 
>>> files in the directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe even 
>>> copy their names to clipboard or details about them if I were to use the -l 
>>> flag, which would produce long information about each item.
>>> 
>>> Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Janina,

Just to report that I have just successfully put the info from ls -l command 
into a text file using redirection and the greater than > sign.  It’s worked!  
How clever.  So exciting!  When you use in your description the verb “sound”, 
do you mean send/write content or result of the command into a file?

I think I’d better leave the Homebrew and gawk alone. . I think you 
meant it for Simon, as he’s obviously very adept at cli already.

I will have to go through your budget example very carefully a few times to 
attempt to understand exactly how it’s done.  But it’s impressive as well.

By the way, Janina, how does one run, say, a browser from the command 
line/terminal?  It is probably a special browser and once you run it, do you 
access the info on the webpage in the usual way?  I’m asking with trepidation 
aware of possibly sounding like a fool.

Best

Andrew
> On 30 Mar 2020, at 09:40, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Simon, Andrew, All:
> 
> Simon is correct. The correct switches will indeed allow you to write
> the output of any command to a file. This works everywhere, because
> everybody wants this kind of functionality--whether Mac, Windows, or
> Linux/Unix.
> 
> It's called redirection, and it goes one of two ways:
> 
> Using the greater than symbol, namely '>' you send output somewhere.
> Using my last example of the env command, here's a command that sounds
> the output of env into a file:
> 
> env > my_environment.txt
> 
> The other direction reads input FROM somewhere.
> 
> The symbol for this is the less than symbol, i.e. '<' and takes
> whatever is in the file as input into the command.
> 
> The uses of this second one are a bit harder for newbies to understand,
> but trust me, you're going to love it.
> 
> Here's a quick and dirty example. Unfortunately, you first have to get
> the gawk command installed, as the script below uses gaw.
> 
> If you have homebrew, the task is simple:
> 
> homebrew install gawk
> 
> Back to an example of indirection: Need to sum your monthly budget? Keep
> your income and expenses in an ascii text file where the first word is a
> number. Positive numbers are for income, and negative numbers for
> expenses: eg.,
> 
> 1000 weekly check from my boss for working too hard
> -90 this months utility bill
> 
> Need comments in your file? No problem. Any first word not a number is
> just ignored, and you can temporarily even take numbers out of the
> calculation by commenting them, e.g.:
> 
> #70 cell phone service--just paid it
> 
> Now create the following as a script file, meaning take this content and
> make it executable:
> 
> 
> #!/bin/bash
> gawk '{ sum += $1 }; END { print sum }'
> 
> 
> Bingo, you've got a script in a file, meaning you've got a new command.
> I call mine 'sumit' as in sum it. So, if my income and expenses are in a
> file called budget.txt, I can simply do:
> 
> sumit  
> And hear I've got 910 left.
> 
> Simon A Fogarty writes:
>> Hi Andrew,
>> 
>> Terminal should let you do what your after,
>> 
>> With the listing of files and if you use the correct switchs  you should be 
>> able to write the list of files and associated data to a file  
>> I know it's possible to do this in ms dos and power shell, so I would think 
>> linux etc would do the same thing.
>> 
>> As for tab complete in the terminal,
>> 
>> So long as you have the name correct to the point you hit the tab key then 
>> it should work for you.
>> As long as there is a file or folder name with what your looking for.
>> 
>> I use it when typing long commands like
>> Sudo /Applications
>> At the start of the creation of a bootable Usb flash drive.
>> 
>> So as long as you have the name correct including any uppercase or symbols 
>> in the name then tab complete should be fine
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries  
>> Sent: Monday, 30 March 2020 3:22 AM
>> To: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>> Subject: A couple Terminal questions
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the 
>> window content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of files 
>> in the directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe even copy 
>> their names to clipboard or details about them if I were to use the -l flag, 
>> which would produce long information about each item.
>> 
>> Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut techniques the 
>> author teaches is to start typing the name of a directory to which one 
>> wishes to change and then pressing tab, which would result in Terminal 
>> completing the name or else giving a list of available names if there should 
>> be more than one.  This doesn’t seem to work.  When I press the tab, I hear 
>> the ominous bong bong.  So this technique doesn’t work.  Any thoughts on 
>> this?
>> 
>> andrew
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Anders:

Very excellent answer to your question, plus good instructions for
getting homebrew on your mac at this page:

https://www.studytonight.com/post/what-is-homebrew-and-how-to-install-it-on-mac-osx

Anders Holmberg writes:
> Hi!
> What does homebrew actually do?
> Is this a library or what?
> Thanks.
> /A
> 
> > 30 mars 2020 kl. 11:33 skrev 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
> > :
> > 
> > Janina,
> > 
> > I’ve looked carefully at Greg’s suggestion and then did a search for 
> > Homebrew and TDSR and since the only thing i understand about Python is 
> > that it is one of the programming languages, I thought I’m too green around 
> > the gills to even attempt to play around with TDSR in case I mess up my 
> > mac.  Would you agree?  
> > 
> > Andrew
> >> On 30 Mar 2020, at 06:32, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >>  wrote:
> >> 
> >> Thanks for the reminder, Greg. I'm just now starting the install of
> >> TDSR. For me that means an update of homebrew, followed by an upgrade of
> >> python3, and that is taking quite some time.
> >> 
> >> Hopeing the result will truly be easier to use than VO in the terminal,
> >> as you suggest. That would be a good thing, imo.
> >> 
> >> Best,
> >> 
> >> Janina
> >> 
> >> Greg Wocher writes:
> >>> Hello,
> >>> You might want to try the TDSR console screen reader for Mac. It makes 
> >>> working with the terminal a bit easier. It can be found at:
> >>> https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr 
> >>> 
> >>> Greg Wocher
> >>> 
>  On Mar 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>   wrote:
>  
>  Hi,
>  
>  When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the 
>  window content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of 
>  files in the directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe 
>  even copy their names to clipboard or details about them if I were to 
>  use the -l flag, which would produce long information about each item.
>  
>  Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut techniques 
>  the author teaches is to start typing the name of a directory to which 
>  one wishes to change and then pressing tab, which would result in 
>  Terminal completing the name or else giving a list of available names if 
>  there should be more than one.  This doesn’t seem to work.  When I press 
>  the tab, I hear the ominous bong bong.  So this technique doesn’t work.  
>  Any thoughts on this?
>  
>  andrew
>  
>  -- 
>  The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>  Visionaries list.
>  
>  If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>  if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>  owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
>  Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>  at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>  caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
>  The archives for this list can be searched at:
>  http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>  --- 
>  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
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>  To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
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>  https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/BB072597-FDA8-4971-B666-361890504466%40me.com.
> >>> 
> >>> -- 
> >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> >>> Visionaries list.
> >>> 
> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> >>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> >>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> >>> 
> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
> >>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> >>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> >>> 
> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> >>> --- 
> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> >>> "MacVisionaries" group.
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/0FFD2285-C62A-4115-B8FD-1DEE44486FA8%40gwocher.com.
> >> 
> >> -- 
> >> 
> >> Janina Sajka
> >> 
> >> Linux Foundation Fellow
> >> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:  http://a11y.org
> >> 
> >> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Hi, Andrew:

I can, and sbelow will, walk you through getting homebrew installed on
your Mac. It's just useful to have it.

What it does: Allows you to run a lot of Linux utilities directly on
your Mac terminal.

Now, for tdsr, which I presume means something like "terminal desktop
screen readner,' or something similar. I'm just guessing ...

I got it running. I launched while ssh'd into my machine. That did
several things:

*   Launched tdsr on my Mac Airbook. That's a good thing.

*   Made my Mac respond with speech to every command I typed in my
*   ssh session. That's a bad thing.

*   The Mac would not respond to a tap of the Ctrl. That's a bad
*   thing. Shutting speech up is almost as important as getting
*   speech happening. You can't be efficient if you can't stop
*   speech, and go on to your next command. And, every platform out
*   there, Windows, Mac, Linux all the screen readers shutup when
*   you tap Ctrl. Maybe that's in the configuration part I didn't
*   yet deal with, but it should be a builtin default, imo.

*   Doing Alt-TAB on the Mac didn't shut TDSR up either. That's also
*   a bad thing, imo. A terminal level application should be
*   sufficiently context aware to know when it's no longer the
*   foreground app and the right thing in that situation, again imo,
*   is to shut up immediately.

So, I'm going to show you homebroew, I even suggest you get it for the
silly little calculator script I provided in another email. You do want
to start writing scripts fairly soon, but I don't know whether tdsr is
ready for serious use just yet.

So, with that disclaimer, here's a web page with very good instructions
on installing and using homebrew:

https://www.studytonight.com/post/what-is-homebrew-and-how-to-install-it-on-mac-osx

NOTE: There's a step in the above web page where they have you use an
application called nano to edit your .bash_profile file. Nano is OK,
though not as good as vim or emacs. For now, no problem using it, but
you will need to pick up vim or emacs in the next couple months--another
conversation.

I digress. You do want to edit, probably .zshrc -- but as I said in that
entertained you (you're welcome, we do all need a smile early and often
each day) I'm not up to speed on just those kinds of facts. It's part of
why I haven't jumped ship from bash to zsh yet myself. What do I do with
all my profile customizations?

Anyway, the explanation of why you want /usr/local in your path ahead of
everything else is very spot on. The how to do it in zsh is where I'm
stumbling.

Best,

Janina


'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes:
> Janina,
> 
> I’ve looked carefully at Greg’s suggestion and then did a search for Homebrew 
> and TDSR and since the only thing i understand about Python is that it is one 
> of the programming languages, I thought I’m too green around the gills to 
> even attempt to play around with TDSR in case I mess up my mac.  Would you 
> agree?  
> 
> Andrew
> > On 30 Mar 2020, at 06:32, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Thanks for the reminder, Greg. I'm just now starting the install of
> > TDSR. For me that means an update of homebrew, followed by an upgrade of
> > python3, and that is taking quite some time.
> > 
> > Hopeing the result will truly be easier to use than VO in the terminal,
> > as you suggest. That would be a good thing, imo.
> > 
> > Best,
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > Greg Wocher writes:
> >> Hello,
> >> You might want to try the TDSR console screen reader for Mac. It makes 
> >> working with the terminal a bit easier. It can be found at:
> >> https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr 
> >> 
> >> Greg Wocher
> >> 
> >>> On Mar 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
> >>>  wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Hi,
> >>> 
> >>> When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the 
> >>> window content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of 
> >>> files in the directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe 
> >>> even copy their names to clipboard or details about them if I were to use 
> >>> the -l flag, which would produce long information about each item.
> >>> 
> >>> Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut techniques 
> >>> the author teaches is to start typing the name of a directory to which 
> >>> one wishes to change and then pressing tab, which would result in 
> >>> Terminal completing the name or else giving a list of available names if 
> >>> there should be more than one.  This doesn’t seem to work.  When I press 
> >>> the tab, I hear the ominous bong bong.  So this technique doesn’t work.  
> >>> Any thoughts on this?
> >>> 
> >>> andrew
> >>> 
> >>> -- 
> >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> >>> Visionaries list.
> >>> 
> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> >>> if you 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
What does homebrew actually do?
Is this a library or what?
Thanks.
/A

> 30 mars 2020 kl. 11:33 skrev 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
> :
> 
> Janina,
> 
> I’ve looked carefully at Greg’s suggestion and then did a search for Homebrew 
> and TDSR and since the only thing i understand about Python is that it is one 
> of the programming languages, I thought I’m too green around the gills to 
> even attempt to play around with TDSR in case I mess up my mac.  Would you 
> agree?  
> 
> Andrew
>> On 30 Mar 2020, at 06:32, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks for the reminder, Greg. I'm just now starting the install of
>> TDSR. For me that means an update of homebrew, followed by an upgrade of
>> python3, and that is taking quite some time.
>> 
>> Hopeing the result will truly be easier to use than VO in the terminal,
>> as you suggest. That would be a good thing, imo.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Janina
>> 
>> Greg Wocher writes:
>>> Hello,
>>> You might want to try the TDSR console screen reader for Mac. It makes 
>>> working with the terminal a bit easier. It can be found at:
>>> https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr 
>>> 
>>> Greg Wocher
>>> 
 On Mar 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the 
 window content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of 
 files in the directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe 
 even copy their names to clipboard or details about them if I were to use 
 the -l flag, which would produce long information about each item.
 
 Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut techniques 
 the author teaches is to start typing the name of a directory to which one 
 wishes to change and then pressing tab, which would result in Terminal 
 completing the name or else giving a list of available names if there 
 should be more than one.  This doesn’t seem to work.  When I press the 
 tab, I hear the ominous bong bong.  So this technique doesn’t work.  Any 
 thoughts on this?
 
 andrew
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
 at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
 caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
 --- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To view this discussion on the web visit 
 https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/BB072597-FDA8-4971-B666-361890504466%40me.com.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/0FFD2285-C62A-4115-B8FD-1DEE44486FA8%40gwocher.com.
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> Janina Sajka
>> 
>> Linux Foundation Fellow
>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:http://a11y.org
>> 
>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
>> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries]

Janina,

I’ve looked carefully at Greg’s suggestion and then did a search for Homebrew 
and TDSR and since the only thing i understand about Python is that it is one 
of the programming languages, I thought I’m too green around the gills to even 
attempt to play around with TDSR in case I mess up my mac.  Would you agree? 
 

Andrew
> On 30 Mar 2020, at 06:32, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the reminder, Greg. I'm just now starting the install of
> TDSR. For me that means an update of homebrew, followed by an upgrade of
> python3, and that is taking quite some time.
> 
> Hopeing the result will truly be easier to use than VO in the terminal,
> as you suggest. That would be a good thing, imo.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Janina
> 
> Greg Wocher writes:
>> Hello,
>> You might want to try the TDSR console screen reader for Mac. It makes 
>> working with the terminal a bit easier. It can be found at:
>> https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr 
>> 
>> Greg Wocher
>> 
>>> On Mar 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the 
>>> window content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of 
>>> files in the directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe even 
>>> copy their names to clipboard or details about them if I were to use the -l 
>>> flag, which would produce long information about each item.
>>> 
>>> Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut techniques 
>>> the author teaches is to start typing the name of a directory to which one 
>>> wishes to change and then pressing tab, which would result in Terminal 
>>> completing the name or else giving a list of available names if there 
>>> should be more than one.  This doesn’t seem to work.  When I press the tab, 
>>> I hear the ominous bong bong.  So this technique doesn’t work.  Any 
>>> thoughts on this?
>>> 
>>> andrew
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/BB072597-FDA8-4971-B666-361890504466%40me.com.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/0FFD2285-C62A-4115-B8FD-1DEE44486FA8%40gwocher.com.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Janina Sajka
> 
> Linux Foundation Fellow
> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org
> 
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures  http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries]

Hello Janina,

I’m having a big grin on my face as I’m reading your very informative but also 
witty response.  Fabulous!  In these tense times, any amount of humour is 
precious.

Take care

Andrew
> On 30 Mar 2020, at 05:48, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi, Andrew:
> 
> Glad to hear you're giving the CLI the old college try. Hope it becomes
> a very comfortable environment for you!
> 
> I want to suggest it's important you focus on zsh as Apple now defaults
> to zsh.
> 
> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208050 
> .
> 
> Since you're a beginning command line user, you don't want to waste time
> learning something you would need to unlearn soon. While bash isn't all
> that different, it's different enough yours truly has yet to take the
> plunge herself. But, that's my problem. I'm just saying don't make it
> your problem.
> 
> To check which shell you're using type:
> 
> env |grep -i shell
> 
> Unpacking the above command for you:
> 
> env is shorthand for "environment. Type just 'env' plus return to learn
> about your environment.
> 
> The vertical bar, which is entered by shift-backslash, the key
> immediately above return,  is known in the cli world as the pipe symbol.
> In our example above it indicates that the output of the 'env' command
> is to be run through a second command, grep.
> 
> grep is an ancient Unixism better known to the unwashed as find.
> Literally, it derives from "get repetition." If you hear someone saying,
> "grep" in ordinary conversation, they might be showing off or something.
> 
> The dash i means ignore case as you look through the output of the env
> command.
> 
> Lastly, the word we're looking for, 'shell' is entered in our command.
> 
> Thus, the voluminous output of env is reduced to the one item you're
> interested in.
> 
> If the answer is something other than:
> 
> SHELL=/bin/zsh
> 
> Stop everything you're doing and switch to zsh by simply typing zsh and
> pressing return.
> 
> You'll notice your ordinary user gives you the percentage symbol as your
> shell prompt. That's yet another way to know you're in zsh.
> 
> To make the change permanent do:
> 
> chsh /bin/zsh
> 
> You guessed it, 'chsh' means "change shell."
> 
> PS: One kind of snobish impercation involving the pipe symbel and 
> understandable by programmers and
> other cli mayvens is to say: "Pipe it to dev null."
> 
> If you should enter:
> 
> ls -l /dev/null
> 
> You'll discover a writable/readable device (that's the crw' part)
> called, "null." As you might guess, 'null' is nothing, nowhere. It's
> were garbage goes when programming.
> 
> So, the impercation is a more polite way of saying: "go to h**l."
> 
> PPS: Your zsh skills are transferrable. You can use them on any Unix
> like system, including Linux.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Janina
> 
> 
> 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes:
>> Jonathan,
>> 
>> You are so kind.  Thank you for your response.  I’m new to the command line, 
>> but I’m very serious in learning.  So your kind attitude and response in 
>> non-technical terms is very welcome.  As to the 2nd point, I was surprised 
>> because I’m following Joe Kissel’s from TitBits Take Control of the Command 
>> Line in Mac OS book and that’s what he recommends: use of the tab key.
>> 
>> If you were happy/had the time to point me towards any materials on command 
>> line/linux, i’d be very grateful.  Or if you know of anyone who’d be happy 
>> to give some tutorials on Linux, paid of course, I’d appreciate that too.
>> 
>> With best wishes
>> 
>> Andrew 
>>> On 29 Mar 2020, at 20:14, Jonathan Cohn >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well, for the first question just interact a few times with the window and 
>>> you should be able to use the voiceover cursor to review and select things. 
>>> VO-return should start selecting and vo-return a second time should finish 
>>> the selection operation. Also, double  tapping with mouse will select a 
>>> word. I thought that triple tapping would select a line but had no luck 
>>> with that. Of course make sure your mouse is where your VO cursor is before 
>>> using the VO shift space to do the tapping.
>>> 
>>> Your second question was related to file completion.
>>> This might depend on the shell you are using accounts created in Mojave or 
>>> earlier use bash  and Catalina created account default to zsh.  Also, it 
>>> will depend on what the behavior is for partial completions. If you have 
>>> the files 
>>> dar1 dar2 dar3 and dar4 
>>> Pressing d followed by escape will fill in "dar" and then I believe beep. 
>>> If you press tap a second time then you should get a list of possible 
>>> matches. Note this behavior is strictly related to the shell you are 
>>> running and its options set in the  shell default / profile / login files.
>>> Jonathan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Mar 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
 >>> 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Simon, Andrew, All:

Simon is correct. The correct switches will indeed allow you to write
the output of any command to a file. This works everywhere, because
everybody wants this kind of functionality--whether Mac, Windows, or
Linux/Unix.

It's called redirection, and it goes one of two ways:

Using the greater than symbol, namely '>' you send output somewhere.
Using my last example of the env command, here's a command that sounds
the output of env into a file:

env > my_environment.txt

The other direction reads input FROM somewhere.

The symbol for this is the less than symbol, i.e. '<' and takes
whatever is in the file as input into the command.

The uses of this second one are a bit harder for newbies to understand,
but trust me, you're going to love it.

Here's a quick and dirty example. Unfortunately, you first have to get
the gawk command installed, as the script below uses gaw.

If you have homebrew, the task is simple:

homebrew install gawk

Back to an example of indirection: Need to sum your monthly budget? Keep
your income and expenses in an ascii text file where the first word is a
number. Positive numbers are for income, and negative numbers for
expenses: eg.,

1000 weekly check from my boss for working too hard
-90 this months utility bill

Need comments in your file? No problem. Any first word not a number is
just ignored, and you can temporarily even take numbers out of the
calculation by commenting them, e.g.:

#70 cell phone service--just paid it

Now create the following as a script file, meaning take this content and
make it executable:


#!/bin/bash
gawk '{ sum += $1 }; END { print sum }'


Bingo, you've got a script in a file, meaning you've got a new command.
I call mine 'sumit' as in sum it. So, if my income and expenses are in a
file called budget.txt, I can simply do:

sumit  Hi Andrew,
> 
> Terminal should let you do what your after,
> 
> With the listing of files and if you use the correct switchs  you should be 
> able to write the list of files and associated data to a file  
> I know it's possible to do this in ms dos and power shell, so I would think 
> linux etc would do the same thing.
> 
> As for tab complete in the terminal,
> 
> So long as you have the name correct to the point you hit the tab key then it 
> should work for you.
> As long as there is a file or folder name with what your looking for.
> 
> I use it when typing long commands like
> Sudo /Applications
> At the start of the creation of a bootable Usb flash drive.
> 
> So as long as you have the name correct including any uppercase or symbols in 
> the name then tab complete should be fine
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries  
> Sent: Monday, 30 March 2020 3:22 AM
> To: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
> Subject: A couple Terminal questions
> 
> Hi,
> 
> When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the 
> window content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of files 
> in the directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe even copy 
> their names to clipboard or details about them if I were to use the -l flag, 
> which would produce long information about each item.
> 
> Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut techniques the 
> author teaches is to start typing the name of a directory to which one wishes 
> to change and then pressing tab, which would result in Terminal completing 
> the name or else giving a list of available names if there should be more 
> than one.  This doesn’t seem to work.  When I press the tab, I hear the 
> ominous bong bong.  So this technique doesn’t work.  Any thoughts on this?
> 
> andrew
> 
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RE: Mac Mini Now On Order

[Simon A Fogarty]

Actually Tim,

Answer me this one,

I’ve always wondered why apple put the lightening port on the bottom of the 
mouse meaning you can’t use it when it’s being charged,

Now we all think you know everything hence we call you apple god,

So why did that be done?

From: 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
Sent: Monday, 30 March 2020 4:05 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mac Mini Now On Order

Hi,

To add to Brad's info, for the mouse, when bottom up so that you have access to 
the charging port, the port would be at six o'clock and the power switch would 
be at about 1 o'clock.  move the switch up to power on and down to power off.  
Similar to the keyboard as Brad explained, the initial pairing of the mouse can 
be done by plugging in the charge cable to your Mac.

HTH.

Later...


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Mar 29, 2020, at 01:29, Brad Snyder 
mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:

The bluetooth keyboard is powered by an internal rechargeable battery.  A 
Lightning to USB-A cable is included with the keyboard for charging, just like 
an iPhone.  This cable can also be used for initial pairing with the mac mini.
The Lightning port is located dead-center along the top edge of the keyboard.  
The little slide switch you feel is used to turn power on/off.

If you purchased a Magic Bluetooth mouse, it also comes with a Lightning to 
USB-A cable for charging and initial pairing.  The Lightning port on the mouse 
is on the bottom side of the mouse.  It is hard to find, but it is located a 
little forward of center.  There may also be a power switch on the mouse, but 
I’m not sure where it is.  My wife has one of these units, but I don’t use one 
myself because I prefer to use a trackpad.

Battery life on both is pretty good.  Depending on your use, you may only need 
to charge the keyboard and mouse about once a month, of course your mileage may 
vary.

HTH

- Brad -

On Mar 29, 2020, at 01:46, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Thanks, Brad. This is incredibly valuable info to me.


Do you know about powering the bluetooth keyboard? I would imagine
there's some kind of batteries involved, but I can find nothing that
feels like a compartment for them. I feel the tiny little slide switch
on the upper right hand outer corner. But, my Airbook doesn't offer the
keyboard for pairing whichever slide position I have the keyboard switch
in.

Thanks!

Janina

Brad Snyder writes:

Janina,

The Mac mini’s power button is on the right rear corner.  You should have no 
trouble finding it.

I use an older Mac USB keyboard from 2006 on my mini, but my wife has a newer 
version on her iMac with the same layout as the newer full-size bluetooth 
keyboards.
The Qwerty area is pretty much the same as on your MB Air, with a few 
exceptions:
1.  The Fn key is relocated to the upper left corner of the “six pack” extended 
key area, where the Insert key is normally located.
2.  There are 3 keys on either side of the spacebar, so you get a second CTRL 
key.
3.  the Eject key is located to the right of the F12 key, same as on the MB 
Air's keyboard.
4.  There are additional F-keys located above the six-pack area and the NumPad 
area.  I have never found a use for these keys.

You can of course turn on VO’s keyboard help to explore the keyboard.
If you connect the USB keyboard to the Mac mini with the included USB to  
Lightning cable, it will automatically pair.  Same is true for a bluetooth 
mouse.

HTH

- Brad -


On Mar 28, 2020, at 05:37, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hi, Bard:

I got the full ekyboard with numeric keypad. Despite that, it's still
quite compellingly compact.

I'm not sure I know what all the keys are. Do you know of a writeup
somewhere about the physical key layout?

Frankly, I have the same question about the Mini itself. I'm wondering
whether I'll guess it's various ports. I imagine I'l get most of them,
but there may still be some uncertainty. For instance, how does one turn
it on?

When I got my Airbook back in 2014 I literally had to call a Mac using
friend to say: "How do you turn this thing on?"

It also took me a bit to figure out how the power supply came apart and
then back together in particular combinations.

Apple builds awesome hardware, but sometimes these details can be
unclear to the uninitiated.

PS: Delivery is scheduled for next Friday, April 3. I've got my fingers
crossed that it will be afternoon. I've medical appointments in the AM
both Thursday and Friday I can't skip.

Best,

Janina

Brad Snyder writes:

Hi Janina,

Did you get the smaller (laptop layout) bluetooth keyboard or the full size 
model with NumPad.

- Brad -


On Mar 27, 2020, at 00:04, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hey, Matthew. I bet you forgot to mention a network connection? 

RE: A couple Terminal questions

[Simon A Fogarty]

Hi Andrew,

Terminal should let you do what your after,

With the listing of files and if you use the correct switchs  you should be 
able to write the list of files and associated data to a file  
I know it's possible to do this in ms dos and power shell, so I would think 
linux etc would do the same thing.

As for tab complete in the terminal,

So long as you have the name correct to the point you hit the tab key then it 
should work for you.
As long as there is a file or folder name with what your looking for.

I use it when typing long commands like
Sudo /Applications
At the start of the creation of a bootable Usb flash drive.

So as long as you have the name correct including any uppercase or symbols in 
the name then tab complete should be fine



-Original Message-
From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Monday, 30 March 2020 3:22 AM
To: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: A couple Terminal questions

Hi,

When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the window 
content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of files in the 
directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe even copy their names 
to clipboard or details about them if I were to use the -l flag, which would 
produce long information about each item.

Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut techniques the 
author teaches is to start typing the name of a directory to which one wishes 
to change and then pressing tab, which would result in Terminal completing the 
name or else giving a list of available names if there should be more than one. 
 This doesn’t seem to work.  When I press the tab, I hear the ominous bong 
bong.  So this technique doesn’t work.  Any thoughts on this?

andrew

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If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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