Re: Not upgrading Macbook Air

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Thanks for letting us know. I'm glad to know Apple knows about it.
Devin Prater

> On Sep 18, 2023, at 9:42 AM, Traci Duncan  wrote:
> 
> Well, color me pleasantly surprised. I contacted Apple Accessibility about 
> upgrading my Mac and the not responding messages I am receiving. They don’t 
> recommend I upgrade my Mac for this issue. They say it is a software issue 
> and will hopefully be addressed.
> 
> I’m pleased and surprised at this response. I would be super disappointed to 
> spend this amount of money on a new machine that I don’t really need. I just 
> want the messages to stop. :-)
> 
> Onto researching ad blockers and the like. I believe someone on this list 
> said that that might help in safari.
> 
> Thank you for all your advice and suggestions. I appreciate it.
> Traci
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: Upcoming macOS Safari not responding?

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Maybe a little. But the best way to fix that as much as possible is to get an 
M1 or later Mac.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com

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> On Jul 30, 2023, at 11:54 AM, Traci Duncan  wrote:
> 
> For anyone out there in the know, is the upcoming macOS going to help Safari 
> not responding? It is super frustrating. I can hardly do simple web 
> researching and reading. Kind of makes me curious about a Window’s laptop.
> 
> Any thoughts…?
> 
> Thanks,
> Traci 
> 
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Re: Chat GPT, Anyone?

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Maybe eventually, but for now it can only handle 4000 characters at a 
time or so.


On 7/11/2023 12:09 AM, Lorie McCloud wrote:

I haven’t tried it but I’m wondering if it could format a book for Kindle 
something you might normally hire a copy editor to do. I’d have to get somebody 
sighted to look it over and see what kind of job it did.


On Jul 10, 2023, at 9:39 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:

Hello All,

Just so you know, I am posting this to both lists.

So I keep running into all kinds of news articles on Chat GPT, a product
from the Open A I project.

Has anyone downloaded the app from the App Store and, if so, are you finding
it as amazing as some of the news reporters from USA Today and the
Wallstreet Journal?

I went to the website at chat.openai.com to see what I could find.  I did
not find much; I'll have to download the app to really check it out.

Oh, the article I read today, in the Apple News app talked about how Chat
GPT planned the writer's vacation itinerary and did a pretty good job of it,
apparently.

I look forward to reading your replies,

Mark


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Re: Need some help

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

The commands are correct. Command C to copy. Command + Option + V to 
move instead of paste.


On 4/13/2023 5:43 PM, Rebecca Sabo wrote:

Hi ,
Maybe I was not clear.  I want to cut a document and move it to a folder.  What 
is the command for it?  I tried doing a command x and it did not do it.  I do 
not no if I did something wrong.
Thanks
Becky


On Apr 13, 2023, at 4:17 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:

Command C to copy and Command Option V to move to the folder.


On Apr 13, 2023, at 17:14, Rebecca Sabo  wrote:

Hi all,
I was wondering what is the command to cut a document to move it to a folder in 
documents?  Thanks
Becky Sabo

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Re: Remote gaming on the Mac.

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

You'll need to get an emulator that supports netplay.

On 4/11/2023 5:39 PM, Jessica Moss wrote:

Ok, I’m not sure this will be of any use, but basically what I’m wanting to do, 
if this is even possible, is attempt to play the retro games I used to play 
with the neighborhood kids I grew up with, like Super Mario World, over the 
computer with someone else.  I know to an extent, this can be done with team 
viewer, in the sense that someone else would have access to my screen, but 
that’s where things would get messy.
   The person on the other end wouldn’t have audio, and also would have total 
control of my screen the whole time, so I was hoping to find something that 
would allow each of us to share audio, but have separate turns at the same 
time.  Is this a possibility?


On Apr 11, 2023, at 6:05 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:

VOCR is an app that will ocr your screen. As to the differences, this is not a 
technical detail as I have not used TeamViewer, but RIm gives you access to 
someone else's computer computer including there screen reader. It’s my 
understanding that the Mac version works differently than Windows in that it 
interprets the screen reader through VO without you hearing it directly. If you 
have ever used NVDA on the phone, then it works the same way as RIM is supposed 
too.


On Apr 11, 2023, at 10:32, Jessica Moss  wrote:

What’s VOCR?  As for Rim, how does that differ from something like TeamViewer?



On Apr 11, 2023, at 11:15 AM, Herbie Allen  wrote:

You’re probably not going to have any good luck with this, but I wonder if 
something like VOcr might work? I The only accessible remote option I know of 
for the Mac is RIM, but I think that is in beta still for the Mac. I tried  a 
remote app once to see if I could access a cloud based Pc, and no luck.


On Apr 11, 2023, at 06:23, Jessica Moss  wrote:

I’ve been looking into how to play games remotely on my Mac, and found out 
about a server called Parsec that apparently will let me do just that.  
However, after downloading and installing it, Voiceover reads nothing on my 
screen, so I can’t figure out how to finish setting it up.
Has anyone else had any luck with this?

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Re: variable vo volume

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Does it go up and down, or just fades out?
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com

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> On Feb 25, 2023, at 3:23 AM, Caitlyn Furness  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I've noticed lately that my vo volume tends to vary at times.  It mostly 
> happens when I am scrolling through a website.  I am running big sur on a 
> 2013 macbook air.
> 
> While this isn't a huge deal, it's very annoying to me so I'd like to fix it. 
>  Anybody know why this happens and what to do about it?
> 
> Thanks,
> Cait
> 
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Re: An announcement about an upcoming Mac Training course

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Would this be useful for someone who can use all these applications, but was 
never formally introduced to the Mac?
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com

Https://devinprater.micro.blog

> On Feb 18, 2023, at 8:27 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> iBUG Today is pleased to announce that we will be offering a 12-week Mac 
> course beginning Tuesday, March 7, 2023. Sessions take place every Tuesday 
> evening on Zoom from 7:00 to 8:15 PM Central Time. There is also a review 
> session every Thursday from 5:30 to 6:30 Central time.
> 
> The course requirements and topics are listed below.
> 1. Participate in all classes with no more than one absence.
> 2. Attend at least half of all study sessions.
> 3. Complete homework assignments, which include reading, Mac practice, and 
> providing oral answers to some of the focus questions from each lesson.
> 4. Attend the monthly iBUG Mac-N-Talk conference call. Three are included in 
> this course.
> 5. Must be able to follow classroom instruction consisting of lecture and 
> live demonstrations.
> 6. All course sessions are conducted in a group format; one-on-one training 
> will not be provided.
> 7. Basic knowledge of Windows, iOS, and/or other operating systems may be 
> useful as a reference point but is not required.
> 8. The course will be most beneficial for students who have Macs newer than 
> 2017 that are compatible with macOS 13 Ventura.
> 
> All sessions will be conducted via Zoom remote conferencing, a free 
> application available for both computer and phone that may be found at 
> http://zoom.us and in the iOS and Android app stores.
> 
> Lecture recordings will be made available to review class material between 
> sessions. The recorded sessions may also be posted to the iBUG Today website 
> and social media for use by interested individuals who are not otherwise able 
> to take the course. Please do not sign up if you are uncomfortable being 
> recorded.
> 
> During the class, you will be part of an email list for the receiving of 
> announcements and discussion of course material.
> 
> Topics
> March 7: Getting Started with the Mac Part 1: VoiceOver Basics and Mac Layout
> March 14: Getting Started with the Mac Part 2: Accessibility Settings and 
> VoiceOver Utility
> March 21: Siri, Dictation, and System Settings
> March 28: Mac-N-Talk
> April 4: Finder
> April 11: Safari Part 1
> April 18: Safari Part 2
> April 25: Mac-N-Talk
> May 2: TextEdit
> May 9: Mail Part 1
> May 16: Mail Part 2
> May 23: Mac-N-Talk
> 
> If you are interested in enrolling, please complete the course application at 
> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc-bXX_38CWIS7sUY0nC_7IDAqUfAXKb9LG4jt4ihQd6lPT1A/viewform?usp=sf_link.
>  Please direct course inquiries to the iBUG Today team at 
> mactraining.ibugto...@gmail.com. The RSVP deadline is Tuesday, February 28 
> 2023.
> 
> Regards,
> The iBUG Today Team
> 
> 
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Re: Revisiting Safari not responding

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Onyx is accessible? I tried it but it didn’t read anything. CleanMyMacX is 
wonderful though. It even has an app updater.
Devin Prater
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> On Feb 8, 2023, at 12:59 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> I would try running a Mac cleaner like Onyx or Clean My mac. I’m thinking 
> that you have a junk build up somewhere. I have a 2019 Intel Mac and I do not 
> experience it on the level you are describing.
> 
>> On Feb 8, 2023, at 12:01, Traci Duncan  wrote:
>> 
>> I am frustrated with Safari not responding. It happens on a daily basis. I 
>> am doing nothing intensive. Simple Google searches, webpage reading. Please, 
>> is there settings I can change to improve things?
>> 
>> My MacBook Air is less than 3 years old. Processor 1.2 GHz Quad-Core Intel 
>> Core i7. Memory 16 GB 3733 MHz LPDDR4X. Shouldn't this be enough power for 
>> simple web use?
>> 
>> Thank you, I appreciate the help.
>> 
>> Traci 
>> 
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Re: Revisiting Safari not responding

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

It should be. But we don’t know how (un)optimized that code is, so it could 
just be that VoiceOver is just that intense.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com

Https://devinprater.micro.blog

> On Feb 8, 2023, at 12:01 PM, Traci Duncan  wrote:
> 
> I am frustrated with Safari not responding. It happens on a daily basis. I am 
> doing nothing intensive. Simple Google searches, webpage reading. Please, is 
> there settings I can change to improve things?
> 
> My MacBook Air is less than 3 years old. Processor 1.2 GHz Quad-Core Intel 
> Core i7. Memory 16 GB 3733 MHz LPDDR4X. Shouldn't this be enough power for 
> simple web use?
> 
> Thank you, I appreciate the help.
> 
> Traci 
> 
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Re: Mac Image Descriptions

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Yes. You’ll have to enable it in the VoiceOver utility, and then do VOICEOVER + 
Shift + L on the image.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com

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> On Feb 8, 2023, at 10:26 AM, Traci Duncan  wrote:
> 
> Hi all, can the Mac describe images like the iPhone and iPad? I was on 
> Petfinder, in an image carousel and when on my iPad each image is described. 
> This wasn’t happening on my Mac.
> 
> Thanks,
> Traci
> 
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Re: Accessibility on Mac OS with VoiceOver

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

The only thing I don’t like is about my particular MacBook. It’s a 2019 model 
with four thunderbolt ports. It’s an Intel Core I-5 with one core at like 2.4 
GHZ and 8 gigs ram. I mean this was probably the very base pro model my state 
could buy, and it shows even in little things like moving from one message to 
the next in a mail conversations, that’s sluggish in a good long conversations 
of like 20 or so messages. Or am I doing something wrong?
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com

Https://devinprater.micro.blog

> On Jan 26, 2023, at 5:24 AM, joseph hodge  wrote:
> 
> Just wanted to give my opinion here. The Mac is really good with Bluetooth 
> and other devices! For example on Windows even using the Jaws cut off speech 
> option Bluetooth is still flaky for me. I like the fact that I can just pick 
> up my airpods and connect to them with my Mac it's seamless just like on ios. 
> This is a huge thing as it allows me to use my Mac however I want when I 
> want. I also like the structure of just the normal operating system itself 
> within the file explorer or finder I guess. Accessibility on the web is a bit 
> hit and miss for me but between Safari and Microsoft edge I'm honestly pretty 
> happy! I also recently created a virtual machine so if by chance something 
> just won't work I can always use Windows and even though there are some 
> sacrifices within the Mac operating system in that that I can't necessarily 
> create a great way for an nvda or Jaws key it works enough for my use case. I 
> was highly disappointed when shopping for Windows devices recently compared 
> to the price of the mac! Value for dollar the Mac just wins every time with 
> the great speakers body etc! I've been listening to Jonathan mosin and it's 
> kind of comical to hear all the issues he's had with Windows machines I've 
> never really had any problem with any Mac I've ever had! That's only been two 
> I think in the last 3 years he's gone through three different Windows 
> machines lol!
> 
> On Wed, Jan 25, 2023, 6:02 PM 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
>> What does the Mac do better for you? I struggle a bit with advanced web 
>> stuff, like moving quickly through Salesforce and Google Docs on Safari.
>> Devin Prater
>> d.pra...@me.com <mailto:d.pra...@me.com>
>> 
>> Https://devinprater.micro.blog <https://devinprater.micro.blog/>
>> 
>>> On Jan 25, 2023, at 12:51 PM, Herbie Allen >> <mailto:herbie.al...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think overall the Mac is more accessible! Is it perfect? No, there are 
>>> some things that could be better. But things like making websites 
>>> accessible will go a long way. I feel like the main reason people s 
>>> struggle is they don’t know VO Shortcuts. I am also a Jaws user and I think 
>>> the Mac is much better!. 
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 25, 2023, at 11:56, Tibor Niesner >>> <mailto:tibornies...@seznam.cz>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> what do you think about the accessibility on Mac OS?
>>>> Do you think accessibility is worse and worse? Or what do you see it?
>>>> I think that Mac OS is usable with VoiceOver. Because people say that 
>>>> accessibility on Mac OS with VoiceOver is worse and worse.
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you.
>>>> 
>>>> Best regard
>>>> 
>>>> Tibor Niesner
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
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Re: Accessibility on Mac OS with VoiceOver

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Thanks. I do love editing text on the Mac, with Ulysses, MacDown, or Emacs with 
Emacspeak. And reading through email is a lot faster than on Gmail on Windows.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com

Https://devinprater.micro.blog

> On Jan 25, 2023, at 5:37 PM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> just popping in here based on this specific  comment.
> The issues with Salesforce and google docs, like  Herb just noted are not the 
>  fault of the Mac.  they instead are the fault of  accessibility factors 
> being ignored at both companies.
> Really insure the  progressive enhancement design practices  that  are the 
> foundation of w3c rules,  and allot of the challenges may likely go away.
> After all those guidelines are browser, tool, and technology agnostic.
> For me personally, I remain  disappointed that external documentation does 
> not exist for all Mac operating systems.  That, and frustrated one cannot 
> turn off the track bar.
> Otherwise?  If I can find a safe voice to use, spending energy with the Mac  
> feels like a rich investment.  something I have never said about windows  to 
> the point of never using windows at all.
> Kare
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 25 Jan 2023, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> 
>> What does the Mac do better for you? I struggle a bit with advanced web 
>> stuff, like moving quickly through Salesforce and Google Docs on Safari.
>> Devin Prater
>> d.pra...@me.com
>> 
>> Https://devinprater.micro.blog
>> 
>>> On Jan 25, 2023, at 12:51 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think overall the Mac is more accessible! Is it perfect? No, there are 
>>> some things that could be better. But things like making websites 
>>> accessible will go a long way. I feel like the main reason people s 
>>> struggle is they don’t know VO Shortcuts. I am also a Jaws user and I think 
>>> the Mac is much better!.
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 25, 2023, at 11:56, Tibor Niesner  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> what do you think about the accessibility on Mac OS?
>>>> Do you think accessibility is worse and worse? Or what do you see it?
>>>> I think that Mac OS is usable with VoiceOver. Because people say that 
>>>> accessibility on Mac OS with VoiceOver is worse and worse.
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you.
>>>> 
>>>> Best regard
>>>> 
>>>> Tibor Niesner
>>>> 
>>>> --
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Re: Accessibility on Mac OS with VoiceOver

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

What does the Mac do better for you? I struggle a bit with advanced web stuff, 
like moving quickly through Salesforce and Google Docs on Safari.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com

Https://devinprater.micro.blog

> On Jan 25, 2023, at 12:51 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> I think overall the Mac is more accessible! Is it perfect? No, there are some 
> things that could be better. But things like making websites accessible will 
> go a long way. I feel like the main reason people s struggle is they don’t 
> know VO Shortcuts. I am also a Jaws user and I think the Mac is much better!. 
> 
>> On Jan 25, 2023, at 11:56, Tibor Niesner  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> what do you think about the accessibility on Mac OS?
>> Do you think accessibility is worse and worse? Or what do you see it?
>> I think that Mac OS is usable with VoiceOver. Because people say that 
>> accessibility on Mac OS with VoiceOver is worse and worse.
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> Best regard
>> 
>> Tibor Niesner
>> 
>> -- 
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Re: Accessibility on Mac OS with VoiceOver

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

I do really love VoiceOver’s plentiful text commands, being able to select text 
by just starting, then ending, selection, moving and resizing windows, and the 
text checker.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com

Https://devinprater.micro.blog

> On Jan 25, 2023, at 12:21 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   Nothing is ever perfect but and Voiceover will always need work. But at 
> least with Ventura 13.2 things are much better. Can't compare to Jaws or NVDA 
> for those are not macOS.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible
> will make violent revolution inevitable."
> --John F. Kennedy
> My e-Mail:
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 1/25/2023 9:56 AM, Tibor Niesner wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> what do you think about the accessibility on Mac OS?
>> Do you think accessibility is worse and worse? Or what do you see it?
>> I think that Mac OS is usable with VoiceOver. Because people say that 
>> accessibility on Mac OS with VoiceOver is worse and worse.
>> Thank you.
>> Best regard
>> Tibor Niesner
> 
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Re: Accessibility on Mac OS with VoiceOver

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

I think it’s getting better, but it has years of improvement in order to be as 
flexible as NVDA or JAWS.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com

Https://devinprater.micro.blog

> On Jan 25, 2023, at 11:56 AM, Tibor Niesner  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> what do you think about the accessibility on Mac OS?
> Do you think accessibility is worse and worse? Or what do you see it?
> I think that Mac OS is usable with VoiceOver. Because people say that 
> accessibility on Mac OS with VoiceOver is worse and worse.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Best regard
> 
> Tibor Niesner
> 
> -- 
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Re: Questions about pages

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Yes. Command with the accent key, the key above tab, moves between windows of 
an app.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com

Https://write.as/devinprater

> On Jan 8, 2023, at 6:48 PM, mr.robertcole via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
> To move between multiple windows in  the same app, Press command plus grov.
> But first you need to open the first document. Then go to the file menu to 
> create or open the second document.
> Thanks,
> Rob
> 
>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 21:38, Rebecca Sabo >> <mailto:beckyas...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all ,
>>> I have another question.  I have pages open and a document open on it.  How 
>>> do I open another pages how do I go between the two of them ?
>>> Thanks 
>>> Becky 
>>> 
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Re: New to MacBook. Seeking advice on strategies for developing competence.

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

For the person who mentioned that they have written books on MacOS and 
VoiceOver, are those on National Braille Press, or somewhere else? 

Devin Prater

> On Dec 6, 2022, at 6:17 PM, Marlene Kramer  
> wrote:
> 
> thanks so very much to all who replied.
> you’re supportive encouragements give me optimism! This is much better than 
> the sense of dread I was developing.
> you all have been most helpful.
> I am sure I will have many questions to follow, but I will not be shy in 
> posting them.
> Best to all, Marlene.
> 
> 
>> On Dec 5, 2022, at 4:28 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Apple's online documentation is also useful. I would suggest this page 
>> (summarizing Mac OS keyboard commands):
>> https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT201236
>> 
>>>> On 6/12/22 06:52, bbsshawn via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> Hi Marlene. Welcome to the group and welcome to the Mac. I've been a Mac 
>>> user for 12 years. When I got my first Mac which was a white polycarbon 
>>> plastic MacBook running Snow Leopard, I sold my Lenovo PC the same day so I 
>>> was forced to learn the Mac. It took me two weeks to learn the OS and I've 
>>> been loving the Mac ever since. Someone said on this list a while ago that 
>>> if you really want to learn how to use this platform, you should forget 
>>> everything you know about Windows and to not use your PC as a crutch when 
>>> you're frustrated with the Mac. They were great words and I took them to 
>>> heart. I think that's why I'm very good at it. Also, along with this list, 
>>> I have a Whatsapp group called Mac Users and Newbies which is also a great 
>>> group. If you'd like to be added and if you're on a mobile phone such as 
>>> iOS or Android, you can send me your contact information and I'll put you 
>>> in the group. Enjoy the Mac.
>>> 
>>> Shawn
>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 5, 2022, at 7:02 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> That’s probably true.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Donna
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 4, 2022, at 7:02 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 5, 2022, at 00:00, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I don’t know why either, but that was certainly the case for me.  I 
>>>>>> think it’s because there are concepts in the Appleverse that aren’t part 
>>>>>> of Windows, such as interacting, and quicknav.  Also, in my case, I’d 
>>>>>> been a PC user for about twenty years.  So there were a lot of things 
>>>>>> that were basically hard-wired, and I had to relearn them.
>>>>> For me, it started with Apple II in the 1980s, then MS-DOS in the early 
>>>>> 90s, then UNIX in the 90s (a Sun clone), followed by Linux - both at the 
>>>>> text console and later the graphical user interface as well. This was 
>>>>> followed by Android, iOS, and then Mac OS. I didn’t have any trouble 
>>>>> learning Mac OS, as I recall.
>>>>> After that came Windows, learned “mostly on the job” in a work 
>>>>> environment, and some opportunities to experiment a little with Chrome OS 
>>>>> (but not to learn it properly).
>>>>> My only conclusion is that having learned to use several different 
>>>>> systems already makes the next one easier to learn.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>> 
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Re: Mute Speech With Keyboard?

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Yes, this does often work.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com

Https://write.as/devinprater

> On Nov 3, 2022, at 12:43 PM, mr.robertcole via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> When VoiceOver just keeps going on and on, even though you have pressed the 
> control key. Try pressing the caps lock key. that should make it hush.
> Rob
> 
> 
>> On Nov 3, 2022, at 1:22 PM, 'Mary Ward' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I wrote to Apple about the problem with not being able to mute speech in 
>> mailboxes when viewing messages with two or more lines showing.  This is one 
>> of the situations where using the control key just doesn’t work.  They said 
>> they had been able to replicate the problem.  In the meantime, I will create 
>> the commander because I don’t want to go back to not viewing any of the 
>> message, which was the work-around solution they proposed to me.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 3, 2022, at 11:24 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Using the control key has always worked for me. Many times when I am 
>>> carrying out a task, I do not always need to hear what VO is saying. Muting 
>>> speech at such times is not an option whereas pausing speech is.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible
>>> will make violent revolution inevitable."
>>> --John F. Kennedy
>>> My e-Mail:
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 11/3/2022 9:17 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>>> Yes, I’ve experienced this too.
>>>> Devin Prater
>>>> d.pra...@me.com
>>>> Https://write.as/devinprater
>>>>> On Nov 3, 2022, at 11:16 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> In my experience it does not always pause what VO is speaking in the 
>>>>> moment.
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Donna
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Nov 3, 2022, at 11:13 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The control key does exactly what is is supposed to do. It "pauses" what 
>>>>>> Voiceover is speaking at the moment. It will not pause what VO speaks 
>>>>>> next.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>>>> "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible
>>>>>> will make violent revolution inevitable."
>>>>>> --John F. Kennedy
>>>>>> My e-Mail:
>>>>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 11/3/2022 8:30 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>>>>>> Tapping control only works for me some of the time.  I frequently have 
>>>>>>> to tap it more than once.  It’s still handy, just not 100% reliable.
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Donna
>>>>>>>> On Nov 3, 2022, at 9:04 AM, mr.robertcole via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Do you know pressing the control key pauses speech?
>>>>>>>> But if you want to have a hot key to mute speech, it can be done.
>>>>>>>> I have been doing it for years.
>>>>>>>> I am surprised that no-body has mentioned adding a commander.
>>>>>>>> I use option plus the tiller or AKA the grove key located under the 
>>>>>>>> escape key.
>>>>>>>> I will look for my notes on how to do it.
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Rob
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Nov 3, 2022, at 1:30 AM, Fazil M. >>>>>>>> <mailto:mfa...@outlook.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi, Group.
>>>>>>>>> Can I mute voiceover speech with Keyboard?
>>>>>>>>> I am not talking about trackpad, I am talking about keyboard.
>>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>

Re: Mute Speech With Keyboard?

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Yes, I’ve experienced this too.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com

Https://write.as/devinprater

> On Nov 3, 2022, at 11:16 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> In my experience it does not always pause what VO is speaking in the moment.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Nov 3, 2022, at 11:13 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>  The control key does exactly what is is supposed to do. It "pauses" what 
>> Voiceover is speaking at the moment. It will not pause what VO speaks next.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible
>> will make violent revolution inevitable."
>> --John F. Kennedy
>> My e-Mail:
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>> On 11/3/2022 8:30 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> Tapping control only works for me some of the time.  I frequently have to 
>>> tap it more than once.  It’s still handy, just not 100% reliable.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>>> On Nov 3, 2022, at 9:04 AM, mr.robertcole via MacVisionaries 
>>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> Do you know pressing the control key pauses speech?
>>>> But if you want to have a hot key to mute speech, it can be done.
>>>> I have been doing it for years.
>>>> I am surprised that no-body has mentioned adding a commander.
>>>> I use option plus the tiller or AKA the grove key located under the escape 
>>>> key.
>>>> I will look for my notes on how to do it.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Rob
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Nov 3, 2022, at 1:30 AM, Fazil M. >>>> <mailto:mfa...@outlook.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi, Group.
>>>>> Can I mute voiceover speech with Keyboard?
>>>>> I am not talking about trackpad, I am talking about keyboard.
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
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>>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
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>>>>>  
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/DS7PR20MB4159CCB2244968ED0409035CC9389%40DS7PR20MB4159.namprd20.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
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>&

Re: Should I upgrade to Ventura?

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

If you’re nervous about it, you can wait until 13.1 or so. But I’ve not found 
any show-stopping bugs.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com

Https://write.as/devinprater

> On Oct 28, 2022, at 7:13 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> As some of you may remember, I teach, so I am often hesitant to upgrade my 
> Mac during the academic year.  In addition, I did not have good experiences 
> with upgrades to IOS 16 or Watch 9, so I’m especially gun-shy about upgrade 
> to Ventura?  I know that everyone’s mileage may vary, but based on your 
> experiences thus far, should I upgrade or not?
> TIA,
> Donna.
> 
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Re: System preferences has not any Windows.

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Have you tried restarting VoiceOver?
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com

Https://write.as/devinprater

> On Oct 25, 2022, at 8:59 AM, Tibor Niesner  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I updated to Mac OS Ventura yesterday, and I have a problem.
> When I want to open system preferences, VO says: „System preferences has not 
> any Windows.
> What should I do?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Tibor 
> 
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Re: iPhone se22

[Devin Prater]

Thanks. I got the SE 2 from a state program just a day ago. I'm kinda glad
to hear the battery isn't *too* much better on the 3. Overall, the 2 is
plenty fast enough for me.
Devin Prater
r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com




On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 9:38 AM Scott Davert 
wrote:

> I upgraded from an SE 2 to an SE 3 and have no regrets. The battery
> life has improved and the internals are much more reliable. I wrote
> the following review after having the SE 2022 for a week or so. My
> observations haven't really changed.
>
> https://www.applevis.com/blog/iphone-se-3-more-practical-phone-some-use-cases
>
> On 9/21/22, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries
>  wrote:
> > The 2022 iPhone SE is available now from t-mobile.com at significant
> price
> > discounts, up to 50% off when financed at 0% interest over 24 months,
> > according to T-Mo.
> >
> > Mine is arriving this afternoon with a total savings of $215 off the
> > list price, according to my invoice.
> >
> > 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries writes:
> >>
> >> On 10/9/22 20:20, Lorie McCloud wrote:
> >> > Does the iPhone se22 have a faster processor than the iPhonese20? are
> >> > there other significant differences?
> >>
> >> Yes, it has a newer processor. Note also that the 2022 edition can
> >> reportedly be upgraded to iOS 16, whereas the 2020 version cannot.
> >>
> >> There are other differences. See
> >>
> https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/03/08/compared-new-2022-iphone-se-vs-2020-iphone-se
> >>
> >>
> >> --
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> .
> >
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> >
> > Janina Sajka (she/her/hers)
> > Accessibility Consultant https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka
> >
> > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> > Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures   http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> >
> > Linux Foundation Fellow
> > https://www.linuxfoundation.org/board-of-directors-2/
> >
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> >
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Re: I recommend against upgrading to IOS 16

[Devin Prater]

Anyone having really bad issues, have you tried resetting the phone? I
know, last ditch effort, but it may fix some things and put you at the
point where 16 is usable.
Devin Prater
r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com




On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 9:49 PM 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries <
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Did the latter.  I’ll check to make sure screen recognition is off.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>
>
> > On Sep 14, 2022, at 8:27 PM, Herbie Allen 
> wrote:
> >
> > Odd, I have not experienced this issue. I have the known bugs with the
> lock screen, but everywhere else works just fine. Make sure Screen
> recognition is off. Also, try turning VO off and then back on.
> >
> >> On Sep 14, 2022, at 20:25, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries <
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> No.  I’m experiencing them while in various apps.  One that jumps to
> mind is Mail.  I frequently have trouble getting mail messages to open.
> >> Cheers,
> >> Donna
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 8:23 PM, Herbie Allen 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Am I correct in that you are experiencing these double tapping issues
> on the lock screen?
> >>>
> >>>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 20:20, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries <
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I’ve never experienced that until this upgrade.  The strange thing
> about all this is that the behavior is very inconsistent.  Sometimes I’ll
> double tap and everything’s good.  Other times I can double-tap and
> double-tap forever and nothing happens.
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>> Donna
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 4:50 PM, Herbie Allen 
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We have had that issue for a number of years now. What’s frustrating
> is it has not been resolved.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 14:21, Jessica Moss 
> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I’ve found this to be an issue as well, along with something
> strange happening with my phone screen this morning.  I went into my recent
> contacts, and tried calling back someone who was close to the top of the
> screen, and ended up calling someone else instead, not realizing what
> happened.
> >>>>>> Then just to help prevent this from happening again, I decided to
> go into the more info menu, just to make sure I was calling the right
> person, and my screen apparently jumped again, and went into information
> for the wrong contact, and it took about 3 tries for me to select the right
> one.
> >>>>>> Is anyone else noticing this?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 3:01 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries <
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> After approx 24 hours with IOS 16, I have come to the conclusion
> that my phone is only marginally usable.  In addition to the swiping issue
> previously discussed, I’m also finding that often when I tap an icon or a
> mail message, the item will not open.  Sometimes I can work around this by
> doing a tap and hold, but other times I cannot.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Everyone’s mileage may vary, of course, and from what I read on
> AppleVis, the usability may vary from one model to another.  FWIW, I have a
> 12 mini.  However, I wanted to post this to the list, just to warn others
> that they might be in for a bumpy ride with IOS 16.  Were I you, I would
> wait, and hope for another release that fixes some of these issues.  This
> is the worst accessibility experience I’ve ever had with Apple, since
> getting my first iPhone in 2009.  I’ve actually written Accessibility to
> ask about downgrading, which I have never done before.
> >>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>> Donna
> >>>>>>> P.S.  If others have had a better experience, feel free to post
> and disagree, so that listers can have the most complete information
> possible when deciding to upgrade.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this
>

Re: Periodic Beep Is Back After Upgrade

[Devin Prater]

Try pressing VO + F1 twice quickly to open the application windows menu,
and see if there are some system dialogs up.
Devin Prater
r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com




On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 11:09 AM 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries <
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I updated my Intel Mac Mini to the latest Monterey this morning. I am
> getting that periodic beep-chime and I can't seem to get rid of it.
>
> VO+N tells me no notifications; and on a second press tells me no
> announcements.
>
> I'm flummoxed (and annoyed) yet again. Seems like some settings aren't
> honored on upgrades, as this was not the case pre upgrade.
>
> All suggestions much appreciated!
>
> Janina
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka (she/her/hers)
> https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka
>
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
>
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Re: notifications

[Devin Prater]

Wow, did I say Alt? My goodness I'm getting old. Too much time in Windows
and Linux and Android land, lol. Yeah I was thinking about the location of
the key.
Devin Prater
r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com




On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 9:29 AM Kliph  wrote:

> Well, we call it command on the Mac, but it is in the same location!lol
>
> Kliph Senior
> Visit my website <http://sturitup.com/> for training and support tools.
> Subscribe to my Youtube Channel
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGAxfEDLCNRGH01RxBs3JRg>, for Great
> audio Tutorials
> Checkout my Podcast Channel
> <https://podcasts.apple.com/us/channel/sturitup-coast2coast/id6442517757>
> Subscribe to the News Letter , and event
> Calendar for updates and announcements
>
> On Feb 28, 2022, at 9:12 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
>
> Use VO + Alt + Space, and you'll see a menu for acting on the notification.
> Devin Prater
> r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 9:10 AM Caitlyn Furness 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> When I get a notification, VoiceOver seems to be stuck on it.  How do I
>> dismiss the notification window?  Command w doesn’t seem to work for me.
>> Also, is there a way to keep the notifications to pop up again later?  I am
>> running Big Sur on a MacBook Air.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Caitlyn
>>
>> --
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Re: notifications

[Devin Prater]

Use VO + Alt + Space, and you'll see a menu for acting on the notification.
Devin Prater
r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com




On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 9:10 AM Caitlyn Furness 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> When I get a notification, VoiceOver seems to be stuck on it.  How do I
> dismiss the notification window?  Command w doesn’t seem to work for me.
> Also, is there a way to keep the notifications to pop up again later?  I am
> running Big Sur on a MacBook Air.
>
> Thanks!
> Caitlyn
>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
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>
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> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at
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>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Voiceover On, Speech Off -- Yet Again

[Devin Prater]

Plug it in, and VO will connect to it automatically.
Devin Prater
r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com




On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 12:46 PM 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries <
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Thanks, Jonathan. I do have an Orbit Reader available, though I don't
> recall whether I ever associated it with my Mac Air. Nevertheless, this
> gives me a path forward, even if I need to arrange for sighted
> assistance. Right now the Orbit is charging, indicating how little I use
> it I'm sorry to say.
>
> Best,
>
> Janina
>
> Jonathan Cohn writes:
> > Hello,
> > if you use a braille display this can be toggled with the M chord. If
> not, the only way I know to toggle without changing default voiceover
> settings is with the trackpad commander and three finger double tap.
> >
> >   Best wishes,
> >
> > Jonathan Cohn
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Jan 16, 2022, at 12:26, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries <
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks, Ali. It's definitely not a sound muting problem, as VO+F5 gives
> > > me speech for Voiceover Off, then a second time Voiceover On, speech
> > > off.
> > >
> > >
> > > Herbie Allen writes:
> > >> I would check sound settings and make sure you haven’t muted your
> soundcard.
> > >>
> > >>> On Jan 15, 2022, at 20:55, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries <
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> I'm getting no response from a three-finger double tap on the
> trackpad.
> > >>> So, I'm unsure how I turned speech off in the first instance.
> > >>>
> > >>> Is there any way to control this in the terminal?
> > >>>
> > >>> Best,
> > >>>
> > >>> Janina
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>>
> > >>> Janina Sajka
> > >>> (she/her/hers)
> > >>> https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka
> > >>>
> > >>> Linux Foundation Fellow
> > >>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org
> > >>>
> > >>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative
> (WAI)
> > >>> Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures
> http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> > >>>
> > >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this
> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> > >>>
> > >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach
> mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach
> Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> > >>>
> > >>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> > >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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Re: [tech-vi Announce List] From iPhone Arena :5 Reasons to Choose a Mac as a Blind Student

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

I love iBooks, but some books have rather awful issues if the book is complex. 
Take the CSB Reader’s Bible, for example. That’s the one that comes to mind 
with these issues, not trying to start a debate on Bibles or religion. When you 
try to read, everything is very sluggish, even on my iPhone X R, which isn’t an 
old device. On Kindle, the stripping out of a lot of stuff works in its favor 
with these kinds of heavily interactive books. Otherwise, I agree, Ibooks wins 
for me. Although, even with braille, formatting like bold, italics, and 
underline are still lost in braille mistranslation.

> On Sep 19, 2021, at 11:40 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> No, Kendall has a broader selection. So, if I can only find the book on 
> Kindle, I buy it there. But if I have a choice, I always buy on Apple Books.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Sep 19, 2021, at 11:24 AM, skipper8...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Is Apple iBooks have the same types of reading materials as Amazon Kindle 
>> Store? In other words, when searching for books, did you find the same 
>> titles in both stores?
>>  
>> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries  
>> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 12:16 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [tech-vi Announce List] From iPhone Arena :5 Reasons to Choose 
>> a Mac as a Blind Student
>>  
>> The thing I hate about Kindle books is that they strip all the formatting 
>> out.  So, there are no paragraphs or headings or anything, everything just 
>> displays like one big long string of text.  That drives me crazy!  Apple 
>> iBooks has made lots of money off me, just because the reading experience in 
>> braille is so much better.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> On Sep 19, 2021, at 10:21 AM, > > > > wrote:
>>  
>> Thanks.
>> Kindle is a great source for books, and I really wish they could be read on 
>> the Mac with VoiceOver.
>>  
>> From: 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries > > 
>> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 11:19 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Subject: Re: FW: [tech-vi Announce List] From iPhone Arena :5 Reasons to 
>> Choose a Mac as a Blind Student
>>  
>>  
>> On 17/9/21 05:08, skipper8...@gmail.com  wrote:
>> The only problem I see with this analysis is lack of support for the Kindle 
>> eReader and OCR out of the box but the iPhone can take care of that.
>> Also, as a person who works in a job that significantly involves writing 
>> scholarship for publication, I've never needed Kindle. Others may be in a 
>> different position; I'm simply noting that, for academic purposes, there are 
>> usually other sources.
>> As for OCR, ABBYY FineReader for Mac should be investigated.
>> Is it possible to use Learning Ally materials on an iPhone?
>> On iPhone or Mac, yes, as far as I can recall.
>> 
>> 
>> What about unzipping Bookshare books or transferring NLS materials to a 
>> Victor Reader Stream?
>> Yes to the former. I don't have a Victor Reader Stream, so can't comment. If 
>> it presents as a USB mass storage device, it's simply a matter of copying 
>> files.
>> 
>> 
>> What about reading PDF files?
>> Yes - Preview, Adobe Reader for Mac, or the PDF reader in Google Chrome - 
>> take your choice.
>> 
>> 
>>  
>>  
>> -- 
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Re: [tech-vi Announce List] From iPhone Arena :5 Reasons to Choose a Mac as a Blind Student

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

I have a Mac and a Windows computer. PDF Pen was recommended by someone here in 
context of apps to do PDF’s.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com
Https://devinprater.flounder.online

> On Sep 19, 2021, at 8:59 AM,   
> wrote:
> 
> I’m not sure who recommended PDF 10 since I do not use this app.
> Are you using Windows or Mac at work?
> JAWS OCR would cost considerably more at work, and the only free OCR I know 
> of is the free NVDA addon.
> If you need to edit PDF files, maybe Acrobat Pro would be your best option.
>  
> From: 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries  
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 9:53 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [tech-vi Announce List] From iPhone Arena :5 Reasons to Choose a 
> Mac as a Blind Student
>  
> $79 isn’t just not cheap, it’s very expensive for an app. My job deals with 
> PDF’s a lot, and as the blind person in the AT Department, I’m the one that 
> usually has to make them accessible. Would this be worth buying to help in my 
> job? Is this *completely* accessible?
> Devin Prater
> d.pra...@me.com <mailto:d.pra...@me.com>
> Https://devinprater.flounder.online <https://devinprater.flounder.online/>
> 
> 
>> On Sep 18, 2021, at 3:33 PM, > <mailto:skipper8...@gmail.com>> > <mailto:skipper8...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>  
>> PDFPen
> 
>  
> -- 
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Re: [tech-vi Announce List] From iPhone Arena :5 Reasons to Choose a Mac as a Blind Student

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

$79 isn’t just not cheap, it’s very expensive for an app. My job deals with 
PDF’s a lot, and as the blind person in the AT Department, I’m the one that 
usually has to make them accessible. Would this be worth buying to help in my 
job? Is this *completely* accessible?
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com
Https://devinprater.flounder.online

> On Sep 18, 2021, at 3:33 PM,   
> wrote:
> 
> PDFPen

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Re: Zoom

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

I’ve seen this sometimes. Try a different audio source, like a different pair 
of headphones or something, or the built-in speakers. I’ve only seen this when 
trying to do something on the Mac when on a FaceTime call, but that wasn’t the 
call audio that went away, but VoiceOver’s audio that would just fade away.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com
Https://devinprater.flounder.online

> On Jul 31, 2021, at 3:43 PM, Lorie McCloud  wrote:
> 
> Today I went on a Zoom meeting using my Mac. the sound kept stopping. at 
> first I thought it was on the presenter's end but it wasn't. if I pressed a 
> key or swiped on the trackpad the sound would start up again but it wouldn't 
> go for very long. finally I switched to my iPad. what might cause this 
> behaviour? is there anything I can do about it if it happens again?
> 
> thanks.
> Lorie
> 
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Re: mac os big sur: how to get rid of the "insertion on word between a and b" information

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Yep, Emacs and Emacspeak, still works on the Mac. You do have to fiddle with 
getting sounds enabled, but it does work.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com
Https://devinprater.flounder.online

> On Jun 22, 2021, at 3:30 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 22/6/21 2:52 pm, Yuma Decaux wrote:
>> Thanks for the suggestions. I just copy pasted the page and did a find in 
>> textedit. Seems like the least path to resistance. I use textedit as 
>> scrapbook anyway so it doesn’t interfere with my workflow.
> Have you tried TextMate, which is probably better if you're editing code or 
> other text files. It isn't as good as Vim or Emacs, but it's still a useful 
> option nevertheless. I don't know whether Emacspeak still runs on Mac OS - I 
> use Linux for that.
> 
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Re: Retroarch question.

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Send me your config file privately, and I’ll look at that. That’s what controls 
Retroarch, so I only need that.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com
Https://devinprater.github.io

> On Jun 1, 2021, at 4:58 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> Unfortunately, even after copying/pasting that same code into the config 
> file, this still appears to be doing nothing.  Would you be willing to do a 
> team viewer session with me to make sure I’ve done this correctly?
> 
>> On Jun 1, 2021, at 11:10 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Oh, check the quotes. It should be more like:
>> 
>>> ai_service_url = "http://ztranslat.net/service?api_key=1I8Y3CMP3D 
>>> <http://ztranslat.net/service?api_key=1I8Y3CMP3D>"
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Devin Prater
>> d.pra...@me.com <mailto:d.pra...@me.com>
>> Https://devinprater.github.io <https://devinprater.github.io/>
>> 
>>> On Jun 1, 2021, at 9:45 AM, Jessica Moss >> <mailto:junglebookfa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Ok, I have no idea if this was how this was supposed to look, and I 
>>> unfortunately don’t have the original string anymore, but it looked 
>>> something like http://localhost <http://localhost/>, with a string of 
>>> numbers after it.  That was the only url in the config file I found, and I 
>>> tried to override it with the following:
>>> 
>>> ai_service_url = " 
>>> <http://ztranslat.net/service?api_key=>
>>> 1I8Y3CMP3D
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The The string of numbers at the end being my activation key; however, I 
>>> have no idea if that’s how it’s supposed to look, and I have no idea if 
>>> I’ve messed something up, and if I have, how to go back and fix it.
>>> 
>>>> On Jun 1, 2021, at 10:39 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Ah, it’s been a while since I’ve done this. Show me the URL somewhere and 
>>>> I’ll see if it matches mine.
>>>> Devin Prater
>>>> d.pra...@me.com <mailto:d.pra...@me.com>
>>>> Https://devinprater.github.io <https://devinprater.github.io/>
>>>> 
>>>>> On May 31, 2021, at 8:48 AM, Jessica Moss >>>> <mailto:junglebookfa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ok, I’m confused, what is?  If we’re talking about my activation key, I 
>>>>> have that copied and pasted already, I’m just not sure if I’ve pasted the 
>>>>> url correctly, so that’s something I need some help with.
>>>>>   Will I find that there as well?  I’ve read the example in the users 
>>>>> guide repeatedly and tried to match that, but have apparently done 
>>>>> something wrong.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On May 31, 2021, at 9:20 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>> >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It’s in your account section.
>>>>>> Devin Prater
>>>>>> d.pra...@me.com <mailto:d.pra...@me.com>
>>>>>> Https://devinprater.github.io <https://devinprater.github.io/>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On May 30, 2021, at 8:45 AM, Jessica Moss >>>>>> <mailto:junglebookfa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ok, I’ve just signed up with them, but can you please refresh my memory 
>>>>>>> on where I would go to find the API key to paste so I’m not having to 
>>>>>>> back in and out of multiple web pages?  I’m not seeing it on the main 
>>>>>>> page after verifying my e-mail address, and that page has several 
>>>>>>> unlabeled Iframes that apparently lead to YouTube videos.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On May 30, 2021, at 2:46 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Did you sign up with Z-translate, and paste the API key into the 
>>>>>>>> Retroarch Config file? You'll have to do that, which is talked about 
>>>>>>>> in the user guide, in order for Retroarch to even do OCR. 
>>

Re: Retroarch question.

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Oh, check the quotes. It should be more like:

> ai_service_url = "http://ztranslat.net/service?api_key=1I8Y3CMP3D 
> <http://ztranslat.net/service?api_key=1I8Y3CMP3D>"
> 


Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com
Https://devinprater.github.io

> On Jun 1, 2021, at 9:45 AM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> Ok, I have no idea if this was how this was supposed to look, and I 
> unfortunately don’t have the original string anymore, but it looked something 
> like http://localhost <http://localhost/>, with a string of numbers after it. 
>  That was the only url in the config file I found, and I tried to override it 
> with the following:
> 
> ai_service_url = " 
> <http://ztranslat.net/service?api_key=>
> 1I8Y3CMP3D
> 
> 
> The The string of numbers at the end being my activation key; however, I have 
> no idea if that’s how it’s supposed to look, and I have no idea if I’ve 
> messed something up, and if I have, how to go back and fix it.
> 
>> On Jun 1, 2021, at 10:39 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Ah, it’s been a while since I’ve done this. Show me the URL somewhere and 
>> I’ll see if it matches mine.
>> Devin Prater
>> d.pra...@me.com <mailto:d.pra...@me.com>
>> Https://devinprater.github.io <https://devinprater.github.io/>
>> 
>>> On May 31, 2021, at 8:48 AM, Jessica Moss >> <mailto:junglebookfa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Ok, I’m confused, what is?  If we’re talking about my activation key, I 
>>> have that copied and pasted already, I’m just not sure if I’ve pasted the 
>>> url correctly, so that’s something I need some help with.
>>>   Will I find that there as well?  I’ve read the example in the users guide 
>>> repeatedly and tried to match that, but have apparently done something 
>>> wrong.
>>> 
>>>> On May 31, 2021, at 9:20 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> It’s in your account section.
>>>> Devin Prater
>>>> d.pra...@me.com <mailto:d.pra...@me.com>
>>>> Https://devinprater.github.io <https://devinprater.github.io/>
>>>> 
>>>>> On May 30, 2021, at 8:45 AM, Jessica Moss >>>> <mailto:junglebookfa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ok, I’ve just signed up with them, but can you please refresh my memory 
>>>>> on where I would go to find the API key to paste so I’m not having to 
>>>>> back in and out of multiple web pages?  I’m not seeing it on the main 
>>>>> page after verifying my e-mail address, and that page has several 
>>>>> unlabeled Iframes that apparently lead to YouTube videos.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On May 30, 2021, at 2:46 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>> >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Did you sign up with Z-translate, and paste the API key into the 
>>>>>> Retroarch Config file? You'll have to do that, which is talked about in 
>>>>>> the user guide, in order for Retroarch to even do OCR. Alternatively, 
>>>>>> you can use VOcr to OCR the screen of any emulator.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On May 29, 2021, at 7:23 PM, Jessica Moss >>>>>> <mailto:junglebookfa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ok, I had no idea this existed until I found it on 
>>>>>>> https://www.applevis.com/forum/accessibility-advocacy/retroarch-182-making-games-more-accessible-blind-people
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> <https://www.applevis.com/forum/accessibility-advocacy/retroarch-182-making-games-more-accessible-blind-people>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> However, even after reading the user guide, enabling accessibility 
>>>>>>> mode, downloading several emulators within the app and testing them 
>>>>>>> with both narrator mode and speech mode on several SNES games I know 
>>>>>>> have readouts, it’s not reading a thing.
>>>>>>>   Am I missing a step, or is this something that’s just hit or miss, 
>>>>>>> and seems to be more of a miss with the games I’m trying to play?
>

Re: Retroarch question.

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Ah, it’s been a while since I’ve done this. Show me the URL somewhere and I’ll 
see if it matches mine.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com
Https://devinprater.github.io

> On May 31, 2021, at 8:48 AM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> Ok, I’m confused, what is?  If we’re talking about my activation key, I have 
> that copied and pasted already, I’m just not sure if I’ve pasted the url 
> correctly, so that’s something I need some help with.
>   Will I find that there as well?  I’ve read the example in the users guide 
> repeatedly and tried to match that, but have apparently done something wrong.
> 
>> On May 31, 2021, at 9:20 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> It’s in your account section.
>> Devin Prater
>> d.pra...@me.com <mailto:d.pra...@me.com>
>> Https://devinprater.github.io <https://devinprater.github.io/>
>> 
>>> On May 30, 2021, at 8:45 AM, Jessica Moss >> <mailto:junglebookfa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Ok, I’ve just signed up with them, but can you please refresh my memory on 
>>> where I would go to find the API key to paste so I’m not having to back in 
>>> and out of multiple web pages?  I’m not seeing it on the main page after 
>>> verifying my e-mail address, and that page has several unlabeled Iframes 
>>> that apparently lead to YouTube videos.
>>> 
>>>> On May 30, 2021, at 2:46 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Did you sign up with Z-translate, and paste the API key into the Retroarch 
>>>> Config file? You'll have to do that, which is talked about in the user 
>>>> guide, in order for Retroarch to even do OCR. Alternatively, you can use 
>>>> VOcr to OCR the screen of any emulator.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On May 29, 2021, at 7:23 PM, Jessica Moss >>>> <mailto:junglebookfa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ok, I had no idea this existed until I found it on 
>>>>> https://www.applevis.com/forum/accessibility-advocacy/retroarch-182-making-games-more-accessible-blind-people
>>>>>  
>>>>> <https://www.applevis.com/forum/accessibility-advocacy/retroarch-182-making-games-more-accessible-blind-people>
>>>>> 
>>>>> However, even after reading the user guide, enabling accessibility mode, 
>>>>> downloading several emulators within the app and testing them with both 
>>>>> narrator mode and speech mode on several SNES games I know have readouts, 
>>>>> it’s not reading a thing.
>>>>>   Am I missing a step, or is this something that’s just hit or miss, and 
>>>>> seems to be more of a miss with the games I’m trying to play?
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>>  
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Re: Retroarch question.

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

It’s in your account section.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com
Https://devinprater.github.io

> On May 30, 2021, at 8:45 AM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> Ok, I’ve just signed up with them, but can you please refresh my memory on 
> where I would go to find the API key to paste so I’m not having to back in 
> and out of multiple web pages?  I’m not seeing it on the main page after 
> verifying my e-mail address, and that page has several unlabeled Iframes that 
> apparently lead to YouTube videos.
> 
>> On May 30, 2021, at 2:46 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Did you sign up with Z-translate, and paste the API key into the Retroarch 
>> Config file? You'll have to do that, which is talked about in the user 
>> guide, in order for Retroarch to even do OCR. Alternatively, you can use 
>> VOcr to OCR the screen of any emulator.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On May 29, 2021, at 7:23 PM, Jessica Moss >> <mailto:junglebookfa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Ok, I had no idea this existed until I found it on 
>>> https://www.applevis.com/forum/accessibility-advocacy/retroarch-182-making-games-more-accessible-blind-people
>>>  
>>> <https://www.applevis.com/forum/accessibility-advocacy/retroarch-182-making-games-more-accessible-blind-people>
>>> 
>>> However, even after reading the user guide, enabling accessibility mode, 
>>> downloading several emulators within the app and testing them with both 
>>> narrator mode and speech mode on several SNES games I know have readouts, 
>>> it’s not reading a thing.
>>>   Am I missing a step, or is this something that’s just hit or miss, and 
>>> seems to be more of a miss with the games I’m trying to play?
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>>  
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>  
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
>>> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
>>>  
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
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>>>  
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/10670140-3446-4704-8F15-7623190BE37B%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>> 
>> 
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>> Visionaries list.
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Re: Retroarch question.

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Did you sign up with Z-translate, and paste the API key into the Retroarch 
Config file? You'll have to do that, which is talked about in the user guide, 
in order for Retroarch to even do OCR. Alternatively, you can use VOcr to OCR 
the screen of any emulator.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 29, 2021, at 7:23 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> Ok, I had no idea this existed until I found it on 
> https://www.applevis.com/forum/accessibility-advocacy/retroarch-182-making-games-more-accessible-blind-people
> 
> However, even after reading the user guide, enabling accessibility mode, 
> downloading several emulators within the app and testing them with both 
> narrator mode and speech mode on several SNES games I know have readouts, 
> it’s not reading a thing.
>   Am I missing a step, or is this something that’s just hit or miss, and 
> seems to be more of a miss with the games I’m trying to play?
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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Re: Announcing indentation

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

I just use Emacspeak on the Mac, it handles indentation well.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com
Https://devinprater.github.io

> On Jan 18, 2021, at 10:43 PM, Brandon Olivares  
> wrote:
> 
> As far as I know, there is no way. I’m a professional developer and have 
> never found a way to get VO to announce the indentation.
> 
> Nine times out of ten I really don’t need to, since my editor takes care of 
> indentation automatically. But if I do need to check, I just put the cursor 
> at the first non-space character of the line, then press down-arrow and see 
> if it’s still at the first character. If right arrow announces a space, then 
> I know there’s another level of indentation. But again this hasn’t been a big 
> issue for me.
> 
> Brandon
> 
>> On Jan 18, 2021, at 10:53 PM, Brett Lewis  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks,  I thought this would be easy and I was just missing something.
>> Brett
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 18, 2021, at 1:09 PM, John Panarese  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Ok. I wasn’t sure. There has to be a command to do this. I will do some 
>>> checking around.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Take Care
>>> 
>>> John D. Panarese
>>> Director
>>> Mac for the Blind
>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>> 
>>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
>>> 
>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>> 
>>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 18, 2021, at 2:54 PM, Brett Lewis  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> Thanks for the suggestion.
>>>> Sadly VO-t doesn’t seem to do anything in Visual Studio Code.
>>>> I just tried it here in the message and it only did font size/type/color.
>>>> Anyway, I learned a new command.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Brett
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 18, 2021, at 11:40 AM, John Panarese  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Does VO-t do it? That is the text attribute command. Not sure if it does 
>>>>> indentation though.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Take Care
>>>>> 
>>>>> John D. Panarese
>>>>> Director
>>>>> Mac for the Blind
>>>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>>>>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
>>>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
>>>>> 
>>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>>>> 
>>>>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 18, 2021, at 2:32 PM, Brett Lewis  
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi All:
>>>>>> I aim hoping I have missed something, but I can’t seem to figure out how 
>>>>>> to get Voiceover on the Mac to announce how indented my caret is.
>>>>>> Ideally, there would be a way to get Voiceover to announce the number of 
>>>>>> spaces or tabs at the beginning of a line.
>>>>>> Short of that, is there a way to get my current caret position announced?
>>>>>> I am specifically interested in doing this in a code editor (visual 
>>>>>> studio code in this case), but any idea would be great.
>>>>>> I have tried setting a web Spot on the control that announces the ln and 
>>>>>> col but this fails about half the time.
>>>>>> Any ideas would really be nice.
>>>>>> Brett
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
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>>>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>&g

Re: mac OS big sur, compact list of questions after upgrading

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

As for the timed chime sound, check for system dialogs that want attention.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com
Https://devinprater.github.io

> On Nov 14, 2020, at 9:43 AM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> How are you trying to expand/collapse subdirectories in the finder’s list 
> view? Move to a subdirectory and type VO-Backslash to expand/collapse it. Let 
> us know whether that works.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 13, 2020, at 23:15, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi ALl,
>> 
>> I've upgraded to mac OS big sur, and it has solved some issues and created 
>> some new ones. I will adress myself to this list to ask if anyone has found 
>> solutions to the issues below:
>> 1-Finder in list mode does not navigate sub directories anymore, so I am 
>> having to use list view instead of column view. List view is significantly 
>> slower as you need to expand folders, and you're actually expanding the 
>> entire directory tree, rather than jumping into the sub directory and 
>> searching within that directory. Anyone have this problem and anyone found a 
>> solution to this?
>> 2-There's a sound that keeps playing intermittently, like some kind of timed 
>> sound (the chime is like the older bonk type sound from catalina). It's 
>> driving me absolutely crazy. I went to notifications, turned everything off, 
>> but it still keeps on playing. Anyone got this as well, and for god's sake, 
>> has anyone found a way to turn it off?
>> 3-The touch bar, to my taste, is very clunky and slow to react sometimes. 
>> This is a major issue as I map most of my function keys to application 
>> shortcuts so I can quickly switch between apps. On some occasions, the touch 
>> bar literally doesn't respond no matter what I do. this is a flawed design 
>> decision, whether hardware or software, and it has decreased my 
>> productivity. Anyone encountered this problem, anyone found a solution or 
>> reported a bug?
>> 
>> Apart from the above, seems my voice over has stopped freezing regularly. I 
>> got a new macbook 16 inch, all boosted to the max, and this still occured, 
>> so I was very annoyed, having to toggleVO on and off each time. This is 
>> gone, so one good for 3 bads.
>> 
>> Have a great weekend,
>> 
>> Yuma 
>> 
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Re: Looking for accessible HTML editor

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Best I’ve found is Emacs with Emacspeak, but that’s a lot of setting up 
<https://gist.github.com/a794a448ccc46e72fca63c932105c043>, so you could also 
use TextMate. TextEdit also allows you to write in Rich text and convert to 
HTML, or something like that 
<https://support.apple.com/guide/textedit/work-with-html-documents-txted0b6cd61/mac>.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com
Https://devinprater.github.io

> On Aug 24, 2020, at 5:03 PM, 'Robert Cole' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dear List, Is there a free accessible html editor?
> As of now I rename the .html to .txt and open it with Text Edit.
> But I would like to know if there’s a easy way to do it using a html editor 
> on the Mac.
> Thanks,
> Rob
> 
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Re: Plain text documents

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Isn’t it supposed to be in the system tray? If it’s not in the normal one, try 
pressing the notification chevron button or whatever that’s called, I’m sorry 
I’m not on my PC right now but it’s the first button you land on when you press 
Windows + B.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com
Https://devinprater.github.io

> On Jul 22, 2020, at 9:25 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Zoe,
> 
> It sounds like your PC may not be signed in to iCloud. Go to icloud.com and 
> try signing in. Once you’re signed in, make sure files is enabled. Sorry not 
> to be more specific, but it’s been a while since I set that up, and I don’t 
> remember  exactly how it worked.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Jul 22, 2020, at 8:22 AM, FIOGKOS  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Donna and all thank you very much for your help and suggestions. What 
>> seems to work for me is iCloud and text edit is good enough for what I need 
>> to do. I actually don’t need these notes in the notes app since with iCloud 
>> and text edit I can actually view them on my iPhone in the files app which 
>> is wonderful because all I had to do was copy my whole entire folder on my 
>> Mac and put it in iCloud and so I pasted it and boom there it was on my 
>> iPhone which is great. I realize this is a Mac users list but just to 
>> mention if anybody knows and can email me privately I do also need these 
>> files on my windows laptop as I update them every so often I did try finding 
>> iCloud for windows but it it tells me to download from the Microsoft store 
>> and the store tells me I already on the app but I can’t find it anywhere on 
>> my PC I spent the whole day looking so I may have to update these manually 
>> on my windows unless somebody can privately help me find iCloud on my 
>> Windows laptop
>> 
>> 
>> Twitter
>> @FiogkosZoe
>> 
>> Love Isn't butterflies in your stomach, love is the heart beat you feel when 
>> he's late
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 21, 2020, at 4:25 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> One more thing. You can obviously do this same thing with other backup and 
>>> storage options such as Dropbox, GoogleDrive, or maybe OneDrive. I use 
>>> iCloud, and I find syncing to be pretty seamless. I can't speak for the 
>>> other options, but I imagine someone on the list can.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> On Jul 21, 2020, at 3:15 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Zoe,
>>>> 
>>>> Welcome back! So glad to hear that you are doing better!
>>>> 
>>>> I certainly don't have Tim's expertise, but I'll try and answer your 
>>>> question.
>>>> 
>>>> First, is there some reason that you need them in the notes app? If not, 
>>>> you could simply store the folder in iCloud. From there, you could access 
>>>> it from your mac, your phone, and your Windows laptop. If you Google 
>>>> iCloud for PC, you'll be able to download a version of iCloud for windows. 
>>>> Once that's installed, the only thing you would need to do is install an 
>>>> app that supports plain text on your phone. There is one called Text 
>>>> Editor that is easy to use and should do the trick. Alternatively, if you 
>>>> happen to have a subscription to Office 365, you could install that on 
>>>> your Mac and your phone and use Word.
>>>> 
>>>> If you do want to have them in Notes for some reason, then yes, I believe 
>>>> the only way to accomplish that would be to open a new note for each file, 
>>>> and then cut and paste the text.
>>>> 
>>>> I hope this helps.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Donna
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 21, 2020, at 2:00 PM, Karen Lewellen  
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Zoe!
>>>>> I am sosososo happy to learn you are fully recovered.
>>>>> its  a shame Tim has left the list, this sounds like an easy task, but 
>>>>> unfortunately I do not have an answer for you.
>>>>> Sending Balloons  of welcome to you and your family though!
>>>>> Kare in Toronto.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, 21 Jul 2020, FIOGKOS wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Good morning everybody, I hop

Re: Plain text documents

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

You could use an app on your iPhone like IA Writer, which creates a folder in 
iCloud Drive for your documents, so you could just put them there and have them 
on the iPhone that way. IA Writer does work with plain text, and you can 
optionally use Markdown to style them if you want.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com
Https://devinprater.github.io

> On Jul 21, 2020, at 8:30 AM, FIOGKOS  wrote:
> 
> Good morning everybody, I hope everybody is doing well. Before I get to my 
> question some of you may remember me from approximately three years ago. My 
> name is zoe and I live in Toronto Ontario Canada. Due to a strange illness I 
> had to leave the list but now I am back. I am fully healed and ready to go. I 
> am still a Mac newbie user for obvious reasons I wasn’t able to progress with 
> my learning. I seem to be doing well now and progressing slowly. I understand 
> the concept of disclosure triangles, navigating menus, navigating the dock 
> and the desktop, etc. of course I may still have a few tiny questions about 
> these things but in general I am doing OK. Google is my friend and I have 
> found a lot of answers on Google. It’s not always easy to find answers on 
> Google win you search a question adding the phrase using voice over.
> obviously there are lots of people who belong to many lists and may have seen 
> some of my messages on other lists as well. I apologize to those who may be 
> seeing the same question posted on another list.
> Let me explain my question. I am still using a Windows laptop as well. I have 
> very important text documents on my windows that I have backed up to a 
> portable USB stick. I inserted the USB stick into my Mac and to my delight I 
> was able to view the files on the Mac and copy them and paste them into a new 
> folder on my Mac. These documents need to be updated with information every 
> so often. Meaning I need to have these documents as plain text documents on 
> my Mac so that I can update them and update the info on the portable USB 
> stick and the Windows laptop. Here’s where my question comes in. I also would 
> like to sync these notes onto my iPhone. I realize that I cannot save these 
> plain text documents or copy paste them into the notes App.
> Do I need to manually open each plain text document copy the text open a new 
> note on the Notes app and paste the text? Is there an easier way to copy 
> these documents and convert them into the proper format so that I can paste 
> them in my notes app? So I would like 2 copies of these notes on my Mac a 
> folder with plain text documents and also to have them in my notes app so in 
> essence my question is is there an easy way to do this or do I have to do it 
> manually?
> Thanks in advance for any help, I look forward to hearing from all of you.
> Regards zoe
> 
> 
> Twitter
> @FiogkosZoe
> 
> Love Isn't butterflies in your stomach, love is the heart beat you feel when 
> he's late
> 
> 
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Re: beta testers?

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

If anyone has any feedback about the new VoiceOver recognition features, please 
let me know how it goes.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com
Https://devinprater.github.io

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 1:32 PM, Michael Marshall  
> wrote:
> 
> Unfortunately the chat is in the middle of the night my time but I wish to 
> talk to anyone off list obviously that is running a test version of the new 
> Mac operating system.
> I'm deciding if I should test or not and any major problems
> I would be grateful for any assistance.
> 
>> On 29 Jun 2020, at 1:11 am, Kliph Senior > <mailto:kliph.sen...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Yes donna, this group has been active for the last 3 years.  I only use 
>> beta’s now because they are so stable.  The group info is below.  Also for 
>> anyone running the dev beta and wants to chat about it just email me at 
>> sturi...@icloud.com <mailto:sturi...@icloud.com> I will be hosting a zoom 
>> call tomorrow
>> Are you testing an apple beta?  want to discuss bugs with other testers?  
>> Then come join a friendly, helpful, laid back community where we can squash 
>> these bugs together, and report them to apple. Subscribe here
>> public-beta-users+subscr...@groups.io 
>> <mailto:public-beta-users+subscr...@groups.io>
>> Because of the non disclosure agreement, I have to say if your not a beta 
>> tester, please don’t join the group.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 2:53 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hey Kliph,
>>> 
>>> I was just thinking about installing the beta. Is that group still live?
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 2:31 PM, Kliph Senior >>> <mailto:kliph.sen...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I am sorry, meant dev beta for 14
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Kliph Senior >>>> <mailto:kliph.sen...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you are running the public beta, and would like to chat about it.  
>>>>> Contact me at
>>>>> sturi...@icloud.com <mailto:sturi...@icloud.com>
>>>>> Gonna have a zoom meeting to discuss experiences and bugs.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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Re: Question regarding the Doc on Mac.

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Can confirm. This is definitely an odd one. Will see if this is fixed in 11 
public beta when it comes out.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com
Https://devinprater.github.io

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 8:56 AM, alia robinson  wrote:
> 
> I don’t get anything like that, but I set up where command n will open my 
> downloads so I never use the doc, not for anything honestly.
> 
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 9:52 AM, 'Gary Price' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yo everyone!
> This is Gary here.
> 
> Please can anyone tell me if they have noticed something strange recently.
> I'm talking to my friend in Australia, he has noticed something strange with 
> the Doc on Mac.
> 
> When he goes to say Downloads, when he presses Enter a menu comes up on the 
> screen, but VoiceOver wont speak anything and the keyboard is totally  
> nresponsive.
> 
> I know this because he has a little bit of sight.
> 
> I've just tried this on my Mac and I can duplicate the exact same thing.
> 
> This is since updating to the latest Mac operating system of catalina.
> 10.155
> 
> thanks very much!
> I look forward to any responses!
> Gary Price
> Sent from my 13 inch Mac book pro.
> 
> This address is for personal contact:
> garypric...@icloud.com
> 
> Twitter:
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> 
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Re: The Mac startup chime is making a return in macOS Big Sur

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Well, I have a late 2019 MacBook Pro, and it’s not loud at all here.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com
Https://devinprater.github.io

> On Jun 25, 2020, at 5:06 PM, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi devon,
>  
> Trust me,
>  
> I can get pretty bloody loud on a new mac book air
>  
> I set one up a couple of weeks ago for a staff member at work,
>  
> I wanted to wipe it completely and start the image again from scratch and a 
> couple of times the volume went up to higher than normal and it was very 
> clear and easy to hear 4 offices away.
>  
> And that was a new 2020 13” mac book air.
>  
> From: 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries  
> Sent: Friday, 26 June 2020 1:23 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: The Mac startup chime is making a return in macOS Big Sur
>  
> I wonder if it’ll sound the same? Right now it’s… a little quiet and 
> fuzzy-sounding, like it was recorded and transcoded to MP3 several times.
> Devin Prater
> d.pra...@me.com <mailto:d.pra...@me.com>
> Https://devinprater.github.io <https://devinprater.github.io/>
> 
> 
> On Jun 25, 2020, at 3:59 AM, Simon A Fogarty  <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:
>  
> You can get the start up chime back now if you use the correct command
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>  <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
> Sent: Wednesday, 24 June 2020 5:15 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: The Mac startup chime is making a return in macOS Big Sur
>  
> True.  The start-up chime is iconic.  I remember my old Apple IIc had its own 
> chime sound.  I was totally dismayed when Apple did away with it on the 2016 
> MBPs.
> I too have restored the chime on my 2019 MBP 13 and my new mini.
> Wish I could get it on my iPhone/iPad.  That would be awesome.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
>  
> On Jun 23, 2020, at 23:29, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
>  
> Hi Brad,
>  
> Thanks for this info.  The Startup Chime is classic in my opinion and pretty 
> well necessary for us blind users.  I did do the Terminal thing in Catalina 
> on my 2017 MBP and it worked like a charm.  Putting it into System Prefs is 
> just what the Doctor ordered.
>  
> Later…
>  
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Jamf Certified Tech
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>  
> On Jun 23, 2020, at 7:38 PM, Brad Snyder  <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>  
> The Mac startup chime is making a return in macOS Big Sur
> Mike Peterson <https://appleinsider.com/editor/Mike+Peterson>
> 
> Apple is officially bringing back the Mac startup chime with macOS Big Sur, 
> four years after removing it in a previous version of the operating system.
> The classic Mac sound was removed from Apple's lineup of computers with the 
> introduction of the 2016 MacBook Pros with Touch Bar 
> <https://appleinsider.com/inside/2016-macbook-pros-with-touch-bar>. Ever 
> since then, macOS <https://appleinsider.com/inside/macos> has been silent on 
> startup. 
> That changes in the first macOS Big Sur 
> <https://appleinsider.com/inside/macos-big-sur>beta. AppleInsider confirmed 
> the chime's reintroduction on a 2018 Mac mini 
> <https://appleinsider.com/inside/mac-mini> and a 2016 15-inch MacBook Pro 
> <https://appleinsider.com/inside/macbook-pro>.
> Based on social media posts from developers running the first beta, it looks 
> like the startup chime is widely available on other models, too. It appears 
> that users can toggle the sound on and off, since there's now a new "Play 
> sound on startup" option in System Preferences.
> Apple first teased the chime's return during its WWDC 2020 keynote. While it 
> didn't actually confirm the fact, Apple's macOS Big Sur features page does 
> state that "system sounds are all-new and even more pleasing to the ear," and 
> were created using snippets of the originals.
> During Monday's WWDC keynote, Apple VP of Human Interface Design Alan Dye 
> said that the new sounds are "familiar to the Mac, but remastered and more 
> refined."
> Although a software update in 2016 removed the startup chime, a later update 
> to macOS Catalina actually added them under-the-hood — though it required a 
> Terminal command 
> <https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/02/22/how-to-turn-your-mac-startup-chime-back-on>
>  to actually enable them.
> AppleInsider has affiliate partnerships and may earn c

Re: The Mac startup chime is making a return in macOS Big Sur

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

I wonder if it’ll sound the same? Right now it’s… a little quiet and 
fuzzy-sounding, like it was recorded and transcoded to MP3 several times.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com
Https://devinprater.github.io

> On Jun 25, 2020, at 3:59 AM, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> You can get the start up chime back now if you use the correct command
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>  <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
> Sent: Wednesday, 24 June 2020 5:15 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: The Mac startup chime is making a return in macOS Big Sur
>  
> True.  The start-up chime is iconic.  I remember my old Apple IIc had its own 
> chime sound.  I was totally dismayed when Apple did away with it on the 2016 
> MBPs.
> I too have restored the chime on my 2019 MBP 13 and my new mini.
> Wish I could get it on my iPhone/iPad.  That would be awesome.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
>  
> On Jun 23, 2020, at 23:29, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
>  
> Hi Brad,
>  
> Thanks for this info.  The Startup Chime is classic in my opinion and pretty 
> well necessary for us blind users.  I did do the Terminal thing in Catalina 
> on my 2017 MBP and it worked like a charm.  Putting it into System Prefs is 
> just what the Doctor ordered.
>  
> Later…
>  
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Jamf Certified Tech
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>  
> On Jun 23, 2020, at 7:38 PM, Brad Snyder  <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>  
> The Mac startup chime is making a return in macOS Big Sur
> Mike Peterson <https://appleinsider.com/editor/Mike+Peterson>
> 
> Apple is officially bringing back the Mac startup chime with macOS Big Sur, 
> four years after removing it in a previous version of the operating system.
> The classic Mac sound was removed from Apple's lineup of computers with the 
> introduction of the 2016 MacBook Pros with Touch Bar 
> <https://appleinsider.com/inside/2016-macbook-pros-with-touch-bar>. Ever 
> since then, macOS <https://appleinsider.com/inside/macos> has been silent on 
> startup. 
> That changes in the first macOS Big Sur 
> <https://appleinsider.com/inside/macos-big-sur>beta. AppleInsider confirmed 
> the chime's reintroduction on a 2018 Mac mini 
> <https://appleinsider.com/inside/mac-mini> and a 2016 15-inch MacBook Pro 
> <https://appleinsider.com/inside/macbook-pro>.
> Based on social media posts from developers running the first beta, it looks 
> like the startup chime is widely available on other models, too. It appears 
> that users can toggle the sound on and off, since there's now a new "Play 
> sound on startup" option in System Preferences.
> Apple first teased the chime's return during its WWDC 2020 keynote. While it 
> didn't actually confirm the fact, Apple's macOS Big Sur features page does 
> state that "system sounds are all-new and even more pleasing to the ear," and 
> were created using snippets of the originals.
> During Monday's WWDC keynote, Apple VP of Human Interface Design Alan Dye 
> said that the new sounds are "familiar to the Mac, but remastered and more 
> refined."
> Although a software update in 2016 removed the startup chime, a later update 
> to macOS Catalina actually added them under-the-hood — though it required a 
> Terminal command 
> <https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/02/22/how-to-turn-your-mac-startup-chime-back-on>
>  to actually enable them.
> AppleInsider has affiliate partnerships and may earn commission on products 
> purchased through affiliate links. These partnerships do not influence our 
> editorial content.
>  
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
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Re: New for voiceover and iOS 14 and Mac operating system big sur

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Okay, fine. I’ll copy and paste from the accessibility section of the page I 
linked to:

Accessibility

VoiceOver Recognition
On-device intelligence recognizes key elements displayed on your screen to add 
VoiceOver support for app and web experiences that don’t have accessibility 
support built in.
VoiceOver Recognition: Image descriptions
VoiceOver reads complete-sentence descriptions of images and photos within apps 
and on the web.
VoiceOver Recognition: Text recognition
VoiceOver speaks the text it identifies within images and photos.
VoiceOver Recognition: Screen recognition
VoiceOver automatically detects interface controls to aid in navigating your 
apps, making them more accessible.
Headphone Accommodations
This new accessibility feature is designed to amplify soft sounds and adjust 
certain frequencies for an individual’s hearing, to help music, movies, phone 
calls, and podcasts sound more crisp and clear.10 
<https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-14-preview/features/#footnote-10> Headphone 
Accommodations also supports Transparency mode on AirPods Pro, making quiet 
voices more audible and tuning the sounds of your environment to your hearing 
needs.

Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com
Https://devinprater.github.io

> On Jun 22, 2020, at 9:06 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Hi Devon, quite honestly, if this isn’t coming from Apple, it’s not worth 
> very much. So, before I go messing around with the recommended sites, is this 
> from actual slides in the presentation? Or is this just wishful thinking from 
> someone in which case, it’s not worth very much.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 22, 2020, at 6:06 PM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> See this page: iOS features 
>> <https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-14-preview/features/>
>> 
>> Legends on Twitter tell of enormous Investiture, like AutoMagic panning for 
>> braille displays, and even more to come. Like Kelsier says, “There’s always 
>> another secret.” Or something.
>> Devin Prater
>> d.pra...@me.com <mailto:d.pra...@me.com>
>> Https://devinprater.github.io <https://devinprater.github.io/>
>> 
>>> On Jun 22, 2020, at 6:39 PM, Mary Otten >> <mailto:motte...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> In all the coverage of the online event today, I have seen absolutely 
>>> nothing about anything new for Accessibility, voiceover or otherwise. 
>>> That’s not unusual. But sometimes they show stuff on the slides that they 
>>> don’t announce. I haven’t seen anything about Accessibility and any of the 
>>> tech articles I have read. I wonder if anybody saw this with a sighted 
>>> person, and if anyone knows of anything publicly shown at the event 
>>> regarding voiceover accessibility. I can certainly think of some things. 
>>> Fix the focus bug and email would be my number one, and that’s not a new 
>>> problem.
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
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>>>  
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/007A8C49-8A74-4E2C-BC84-C414D7AA60FC%40gmail.com>.
>> 
>> 
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Re: New for voiceover and iOS 14 and Mac operating system big sur

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

See this page: iOS features <https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-14-preview/features/>

Legends on Twitter tell of enormous Investiture, like AutoMagic panning for 
braille displays, and even more to come. Like Kelsier says, “There’s always 
another secret.” Or something.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com <mailto:d.pra...@me.com>
Https://devinprater.github.io <https://devinprater.github.io/>

> On Jun 22, 2020, at 6:39 PM, Mary Otten  <mailto:motte...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> In all the coverage of the online event today, I have seen absolutely nothing 
> about anything new for Accessibility, voiceover or otherwise. That’s not 
> unusual. But sometimes they show stuff on the slides that they don’t 
> announce. I haven’t seen anything about Accessibility and any of the tech 
> articles I have read. I wonder if anybody saw this with a sighted person, and 
> if anyone knows of anything publicly shown at the event regarding voiceover 
> accessibility. I can certainly think of some things. Fix the focus bug and 
> email would be my number one, and that’s not a new problem.
> Mary
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
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> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
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Re: New for voiceover and iOS 14 and Mac operating system big sur

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

See this page: iOS features <https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-14-preview/features/>

Legends on Twitter tell of enormous Investiture, like AutoMagic panning for 
braille displays, and even more to come. Like Kelsier says, “There’s always 
another secret.” Or something.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com
Https://devinprater.github.io

> On Jun 22, 2020, at 6:39 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> In all the coverage of the online event today, I have seen absolutely nothing 
> about anything new for Accessibility, voiceover or otherwise. That’s not 
> unusual. But sometimes they show stuff on the slides that they don’t 
> announce. I haven’t seen anything about Accessibility and any of the tech 
> articles I have read. I wonder if anybody saw this with a sighted person, and 
> if anyone knows of anything publicly shown at the event regarding voiceover 
> accessibility. I can certainly think of some things. Fix the focus bug and 
> email would be my number one, and that’s not a new problem.
> Mary
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
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> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Variety of Mac questions

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Okay, that’s surprising. How do you find it useful? How do you even customize 
it? Those areas of the Touch Bar settings seem quite inaccessible. Like, I 
can’t drag and drop actions between the top and bottom part of that screen.

> On May 18, 2020, at 12:39 PM, John Panarese  wrote:
> 
>   Actually, the Touch Bar is a very powerful and useful tool, and many people 
> use it effectively on the Mac Book Pro. From a blind perspective, you have to 
> get used to it and take your time learning it. You can even customize the 
> Touch Bar for specific apps to do quick actions for that app. I have slowly 
> come along and have taken my time learning to use it. I finally am at the 
> point in which I am customizing its options and making effective use of it.
> 
> 
> Take Care
> 
> John D. Panarese
> Director
> Mac for the Blind
> Tel, (631) 724-4479
> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
> 
> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
> 
> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
> 
> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 18, 2020, at 1:34 PM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Answers inline because there’s a lot of questions, sorry.
>> 
>>> On May 18, 2020, at 12:23 PM, Traci Duncan  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all, I have a variety of Mac questions.
>>> 
>>> MacBook Pro 
>>> As voiceover users, what are your thoughts on the MacPro touch bar? Is that 
>>> a selling point over the MacBook Air?
>> Its not. The Touch Bar, for me, sucks, makes things slower, and should be on 
>> Air MacBooks for consumers who like shiny new stuff, instead of pros for 
>> people who try their best to get work done. Yes, I really don’t like it.
>> 
>>> 
>>> Mac mini 
>>> Does anyone have experience choosing and connecting a monitor to the Mac 
>>> mini? Picking out a good one for sighted household members? ;) I was under 
>>> some assumption that a TV would work fine, but from my reading, that 
>>> doesn't sound the case. It didn't occur to me, that monitors are built for 
>>> sitting close, TV's are built for sitting away. Insert face-palm here.
>> I just used a TV for my old Mac mini. It was a small TV, like a 21 inch or 
>> so. 
>>> 
>>> Mac bluetooth accessories
>>> I've recently learned about bluetooth numb pads. I remember way back in the 
>>> day, I loved using an external numb pad with my Window's machine. Anyone 
>>> with experience using one of these with Mac? I know the numb pad will 
>>> extend voiceover commands, but I don't know if a bluetooth one will do this.
>> It should.
>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the help. I am ready to upgrade my MacBook Air mid 2011, but 
>>> clearly having a hard time deciding.
>>> 
>>> Traci 
>>> 
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>>> Visionaries list.
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>>> 
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Re: Variety of Mac questions

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Answers inline because there’s a lot of questions, sorry.

> On May 18, 2020, at 12:23 PM, Traci Duncan  wrote:
> 
> Hi all, I have a variety of Mac questions.
> 
> MacBook Pro 
> As voiceover users, what are your thoughts on the MacPro touch bar? Is that a 
> selling point over the MacBook Air?
Its not. The Touch Bar, for me, sucks, makes things slower, and should be on 
Air MacBooks for consumers who like shiny new stuff, instead of pros for people 
who try their best to get work done. Yes, I really don’t like it.

> 
> Mac mini 
> Does anyone have experience choosing and connecting a monitor to the Mac 
> mini? Picking out a good one for sighted household members? ;) I was under 
> some assumption that a TV would work fine, but from my reading, that doesn't 
> sound the case. It didn't occur to me, that monitors are built for sitting 
> close, TV's are built for sitting away. Insert face-palm here.
I just used a TV for my old Mac mini. It was a small TV, like a 21 inch or so. 
> 
> Mac bluetooth accessories
> I've recently learned about bluetooth numb pads. I remember way back in the 
> day, I loved using an external numb pad with my Window's machine. Anyone with 
> experience using one of these with Mac? I know the numb pad will extend 
> voiceover commands, but I don't know if a bluetooth one will do this.
It should.

> 
> Thanks for the help. I am ready to upgrade my MacBook Air mid 2011, but 
> clearly having a hard time deciding.
> 
> Traci 
> 
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Re: USB flash drive with my phone.

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Try transferring them with the files app instead. Maybe even transfer them from 
the drive to the Reader folder in “on my iPhone” file area.

> On May 9, 2020, at 3:11 PM, Matt  wrote:
> 
> Hi folks.
> 
>  I've got the camera connection kit, with the drive plugged in to my phone.
> 
> There are zip audio files on the drive.
> 
> I want to import these files into voice dream reader.
> 
> every time i try this, I get document not available.
> 
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Re: Learning Terminal

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

I did once, but now I tried it a few months ago, and it didn’t work. Yeah, I’d 
just use Linux for BRLTTY. There are a lot of components to get right for 
BRLTTY on the Mac.

> On May 4, 2020, at 8:09 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Have you tried to install brltty on the mac for braille use in terminal?
> I am a bit unsure on how to install it in terminal.
> There are to many components for my brain.
> /A
> 
>> 3 maj 2020 kl. 21:52 skrev 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>:
>> 
>> Thanks so much for this info, Janina. I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned 
>> this or not, but when you get into commands that do more than simple, one 
>> line responses, you’ll probably find that VoiceOver… Just doesn’t do so well 
>> in the Terminal. Then, you may want to check  out TDSR, the terminal screen 
>> reader.
>> 
>> https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr <https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr>
>> 
>> If you become interested in other Linux accessibility stuff as well, you 
>> could look into Emacs, and Emacspeak. I’ve done a guide on getting those set 
>> up:
>> 
>> https://gist.github.com/a794a448ccc46e72fca63c932105c043 
>> <https://gist.github.com/a794a448ccc46e72fca63c932105c043>
>> 
>> Homebrew, from:
>> 
>> https://brew.sh <https://brew.sh/>
>> 
>> Will give you access to many more packages (programs) for the Terminal, and 
>> you can use the “brew cask” commands to install even Mac apps, like Google 
>> Chrome or Github Desktop, if you ever get into that.
>> 
>> I know, a lot of these are resources that you may use when you’re more 
>> comfortable with the basics, but I figured I’d give them out now, so you 
>> have a path to follow when you’re done getting started.
>> 
>> Journey before Destination! :) 
>> 
>>> On May 3, 2020, at 12:49 PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don't know about the particular podcast or the book that was suggested
>>> by others. I'd suggest checking out those resources, though. Any
>>> starting point should help.
>>> 
>>> I do have some more generic advice that will serve you forever, because
>>> you'll never learn everything there is to know about the Terminal. No
>>> one does.
>>> 
>>> So, the question quickly becomes: "How do I do X?"
>>> 
>>> For that on line searches are very useful. I frequently open a Google
>>> search and put in +osx to get Apple specific results for the remainder
>>> of my querry.
>>> 
>>> If I get too many point and click results, I go back to my search and
>>> add +cli to my querry. I rarely need go any further for finding Terminal
>>> oriented help on whatever the particular task.
>>> 
>>> I should also note that Terminal now defaults to the Z Shell. Therefore,
>>> any resource you can find about zsh is likely to be helpful, even if
>>> it's about zsh on Linux. Now, there's a lot of colorization available in
>>> zsh commands. Just skip all that stuff irrelevant to you.
>>> 
>>> Lastly, you should know about the man command. This is shorhand for
>>> manual. An example of how to use this command might be having the
>>> Terminal tell you all the ways you can use the cp command:
>>> 
>>> man cp
>>> 
>>> You will never outgrow your need for the man command.
>>> 
>>> Writing all this reminds me of one of my favorite life experiences, when
>>> first I learned to use Unix command lines. Those where the early days of
>>> on line shell access that we accessed vial dialup modem. I was familiar
>>> with menu driven systems like Compuserve and Delphi, but Netcom, when I
>>> logged in prompted only:
>>> 
>>> [netcom]$
>>> 
>>> This I knew from nothing what to do. Where was my menu?
>>> 
>>> So, I called Netcom. just by chance I got Bob Reager the founder on the
>>> phone--yes, those were different days.
>>> 
>>> So, I started my conversation with Bob, "What do I do?"
>>> 
>>> Bob said: "We sent you a manual."
>>> 
>>> I said: "I'm blind, can't read it."
>>> 
>>> Bob said: "Oh wow! Do you know the man command and maybe the rn
>>> command?"
>>> 
>>> I said: "No, never heard of them?"
>>

Re: Safari Gets Busy

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

This seems to happen most on very Javascript-intensive pages, or badly designed 
web apps. As far as I know, there’s no fix for it, other than just wait for it 
to fix itself.

> On May 3, 2020, at 1:25 PM, muhammad babar Shahzad  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi listers,
> While navigating within the safari on my Macbook pro, I am getting the 
> message that safari is busy. The issue gets solved within some time and it 
> happens. Again It is quite strange.
> Thanks for any input,
> Muhammad.
> 
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Re: Learning Terminal

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Thanks so much for this info, Janina. I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned this 
or not, but when you get into commands that do more than simple, one line 
responses, you’ll probably find that VoiceOver… Just doesn’t do so well in the 
Terminal. Then, you may want to check  out TDSR, the terminal screen reader.

https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr 

If you become interested in other Linux accessibility stuff as well, you could 
look into Emacs, and Emacspeak. I’ve done a guide on getting those set up:

https://gist.github.com/a794a448ccc46e72fca63c932105c043 


Homebrew, from:

https://brew.sh 

Will give you access to many more packages (programs) for the Terminal, and you 
can use the “brew cask” commands to install even Mac apps, like Google Chrome 
or Github Desktop, if you ever get into that.

I know, a lot of these are resources that you may use when you’re more 
comfortable with the basics, but I figured I’d give them out now, so you have a 
path to follow when you’re done getting started.

Journey before Destination! :) 

> On May 3, 2020, at 12:49 PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I don't know about the particular podcast or the book that was suggested
> by others. I'd suggest checking out those resources, though. Any
> starting point should help.
> 
> I do have some more generic advice that will serve you forever, because
> you'll never learn everything there is to know about the Terminal. No
> one does.
> 
> So, the question quickly becomes: "How do I do X?"
> 
> For that on line searches are very useful. I frequently open a Google
> search and put in +osx to get Apple specific results for the remainder
> of my querry.
> 
> If I get too many point and click results, I go back to my search and
> add +cli to my querry. I rarely need go any further for finding Terminal
> oriented help on whatever the particular task.
> 
> I should also note that Terminal now defaults to the Z Shell. Therefore,
> any resource you can find about zsh is likely to be helpful, even if
> it's about zsh on Linux. Now, there's a lot of colorization available in
> zsh commands. Just skip all that stuff irrelevant to you.
> 
> Lastly, you should know about the man command. This is shorhand for
> manual. An example of how to use this command might be having the
> Terminal tell you all the ways you can use the cp command:
> 
> man cp
> 
> You will never outgrow your need for the man command.
> 
> Writing all this reminds me of one of my favorite life experiences, when
> first I learned to use Unix command lines. Those where the early days of
> on line shell access that we accessed vial dialup modem. I was familiar
> with menu driven systems like Compuserve and Delphi, but Netcom, when I
> logged in prompted only:
> 
> [netcom]$
> 
> This I knew from nothing what to do. Where was my menu?
> 
> So, I called Netcom. just by chance I got Bob Reager the founder on the
> phone--yes, those were different days.
> 
> So, I started my conversation with Bob, "What do I do?"
> 
> Bob said: "We sent you a manual."
> 
> I said: "I'm blind, can't read it."
> 
> Bob said: "Oh wow! Do you know the man command and maybe the rn
> command?"
> 
> I said: "No, never heard of them?"
> 
> Bob said: "OK, just type man man and maybe also man man -k. Then you can
> also just type rn and press enter."
> 
> I said: "cool, if I get stuck, may I call you for more direction?"
> 
> Bob said: "Yes, as long as you don't abuse it, you may call me."
> 
> Guess what? I never called him again.
> 
> rn is dead. It was a usenet news reader, and usenet has died. Instead we
> have this and similar email list groups (not so available 30 years ago).
> 
> But, I love that those two commands took me everywhere from that point.
> And, yes, I still use man all the time.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Janina
> 
> 'Kristeen Hughes' via MacVisionaries writes:
>> The subject says it. I want to learn more about this powerful app, and I'm 
>> not sure how this is best done. Does anyone have book recommendations or 
>> places on the web?
>> 
>> Kristeen
>> 
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Re: Right Command Key

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

What about the key doesn’t work? Are you using the MacBook keyboard, or a USB 
one?

> On Apr 30, 2020, at 4:28 PM, Dulce Weisenborn  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhoneHow do I get my right command key to work on my MacBook?
> 
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Re: Urgent query re setting up my Mac and the log-in screen with Voiceover

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

You have File Vault enabled. To log in this way, when VOICEOVER says Username, 
type that and press Enter. Then, Enter your password, and press Enter again. 
Now you should be logged in.

> On Apr 29, 2020, at 3:18 PM, 'Eleanor Roberts' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all 
> 
> Really really hoping someone can help with this. I have just had my Mac back 
> after having to send it away for repair as it decided to crash/stop working 
> completely. They appear to have done a clean install of Katalena. I have 
> spent this evening re-setting it up with a friend. However, we are really 
> struggling with VoiceOver. We went into system preferences and accessibility 
> and enabled VO. We then went into users and groups, log-in options and 
> accessibility options, and ticked the box that said about enabling VO from 
> the start. However, this does not appear to have worked. Every time I now 
> start my Mac VO literally says the word “username” and nothing more. It won’t 
> tell me where I’m navigating on the screen or anything like that. So I 
> literally can’t enter my password and log in myself. So was just wondering if 
> anyone else has had/is having this problem with Katalena? Could anyone please 
> send me a set of idiotproof instructions as to how I can set up VO properly 
> and fix this problem please??? Any help really would be much appreciated, as 
> what’s the point in having a Mac when VO won’t even speak to me to enable me 
> to log in!!! 
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give. 
> 
> Eleanor 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: voice dream reader

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

It is not, but there is Speech Central:
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/speech-central-text-to-speech/id1223093645?mt=12


> On Apr 22, 2020, at 5:26 PM, Shirley Healy  wrote:
> 
> is voice dream reader available for the mac? how much does it cost?
> shirley
> 
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Re: Operating system accessibility (was RE: Ios 13.4.1)

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Yes.
https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/7020014?hl=en

> On Apr 11, 2020, at 4:39 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Does the chromebook support braille?
> /A
> 
>> 11 apr. 2020 kl. 08:12 skrev Sandie Jazmin Kruse :
>> 
>> I am not going to get any friends from saying this, but it have too be said. 
>> I have used chromebooks for over a year now , and have not had one single 
>> situation where i could not. Get stuff done. And if they have broken 
>> something in an update, they have fixed it for me when i have mentioned it , 
>> can the same be said for apple?
>> If you are geeky enough you will at beast be left with 3 major OS. IOS 
>> chromeos, and android. I use them all for diffrent things. Wait i forgot 
>> Linux. Too me it is about using the right tool for the right thing, so too 
>> speak.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On 10 Apr 2020, at 17.20, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The short answer in my view is that, in general, the people who develop 
>>> screen readers, support for accessibility within operating systems, and 
>>> support for accessibility in at least some applications are hard-working, 
>>> knowledgeable, and strive to get it right. Unfortunately, whether they work 
>>> for multinational corporations or for small organizations, they tend to be 
>>> under-resourced. Too many software developers writing applications and 
>>> application components don't know how to implement accessibility support 
>>> well - or don't give it sufficient priority.
>>> The result is that there are too many bugs and rough edges, and this won't 
>>> change until there are stronger policies in place requiring higher quality, 
>>> as well as more software developers working on accessibility issues 
>>> effectively.
>>> I don't think for a moment that this situation is acceptable. I think it's 
>>> a policy issue, not a technical one, ultimately.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
>>> Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 10:17 PM
>>> To: 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>> Subject: Re: Ios 13.4.1
>>> 
>>> Jason,
>>> You  raise an issue that frankly baffles me.
>>> why is it not possible for  an  individual to choose a single operating 
>>> system and   have their needs met from an accessibility standpoint?
>>> why  is it an acceptable situation to need   multiple devices in various 
>>> systems to complete tasks.
>>> It certainly was not always  the case.
>>> I can respect having a laptop or desktop and also a phone or tablet, but 
>>> those  should work in harmony with each other if that makes sense. and the 
>>> accessibility should be consistent on those devices regardless of program 
>>> being used.
>>> I have no idea where the concept of creating a single program to manage a 
>>> single task   then  incorporating accessibility in came from, perhaps the 
>>> windows arena.
>>> Still as someone pointed out earlier in this thread Google believes that 
>>> controlling punctuation  should not be something a user can do  on the 
>>> Android platform.  Yet text to speech is not a screen reader,  with google 
>>> failing to understand  this a major concern.
>>> as you note, most of the individuals meeting with accessibility will not 
>>> have  the technological ability to figure things out..so will simply 
>>> believe  access is an impossibility in  general.
>>> However such complacency about what access is expected to do in part 
>>> started with the population benefiting from that access, not demanding that 
>>>  a screen reader tool work uniformly across the board much the way in 
>>> theory the physical functions  the adaptive tool enhances work in the human 
>>> body.
>>> Kare
>>> Who frankly wonders on average how many machines an individual using 
>>> adaptive technology  owns?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Thu, 9 Apr 2020, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries wrote:
 
 I haven’t updated to iOS 13.4.1 yet, but I plan to do it soon. Based on 
 what I’ve read, I don’t expect any changes that will affect me or 
 other VoiceOver users significantly.
 
 
 
 Every modern operating system has accessibility bugs, unfortunately. 
 That’s why I sometimes have to switch operating systems just to get work 
 done. For example, I’ve switched from Windows to Mac to complete a task 
 in the last week or two due to accessibility issues on the Windows  side. 
 Fortunately, the laptop with Windows installed and the MacBook Pro are on 
 the same desk, so it’s really easy to move from one to the other. Of 
 course, I really shouldn’t have to move between two computers just to do 
 my work properly, but that’s how it is at the moment. This isn’t the 
 place to discuss application and screen reader crashes on Windows, or 
 accessibility regressions there either, or having to switch between 
 Windows screen readers to work around bugs. In

Re: Creating a web site

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

This may be too technical for you, but you don’t necessarily have to write 
HTML. And, it’s free. Also, this is a rather old article, so things may be 
slightly different.

https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2014/08/build-blog-jekyll-github-pages/ 



> On Apr 8, 2020, at 5:49 AM, Ian Harrison  wrote:
> 
>   Hi everyone, hope you are staying safe.
> 
> In this time of great boredom I would like to create a web site for my 
> family. A simple one with no ecommerce etc.
> 
> Has anyone got experience with a provider who is voice over friendly? I am 
> reasonable tec savvy but not a coder or html person. Square space looks good 
> but I can’t find a way to contact them about such a specific question.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> Ian
> 
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Re: Microsoft word on the Mac.

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Do you have the problem where arrowing around a document in Word for Mac is 
sluggish? This is with quick navigation off.

> On Apr 7, 2020, at 3:43 PM, 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Just had a play with Microsoft word on the Mac and that is better also.  So 
> if anyone wants a go then do it.  I wonder why Apple don’t slag off Microsoft 
> anymore, I remember that they always did at their events.
> 
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Re: Ggames on the mac

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Okay, it looks like you’ll be wanting this site:

http://qcsalon.net

> On Apr 4, 2020, at 7:48 PM, Shirley Healy  wrote:
> 
> audio games would be good. and online ones preferably.
> also dice games, slots, etc.
> shirley
>> - Original Message ----- 
>> From: 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2020 1:12 AM
>> Subject: Re: Ggames on the mac
>> 
>> What kind of games do you like to play? There are a few options, not as many 
>> on Windows, but there are some. Do you like text or audio games? Do you like 
>> single or multiple players? Online or offline? Fantasy or Sci-Fi?
>> 
>>> On Apr 4, 2020, at 3:22 PM, Shirley Healy >> <mailto:manyofus1...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Can anyone give me some good recommendations for accessible games on the 
>>> mac with vo? I would love to try out a few.
>>> thanks
>>> shirley
>>> 
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Re: Ggames on the mac

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

What kind of games do you like to play? There are a few options, not as many on 
Windows, but there are some. Do you like text or audio games? Do you like 
single or multiple players? Online or offline? Fantasy or Sci-Fi?

> On Apr 4, 2020, at 3:22 PM, Shirley Healy  wrote:
> 
> Can anyone give me some good recommendations for accessible games on the mac 
> with vo? I would love to try out a few.
> thanks
> shirley
> 
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Re: Accessible open world games for Mac Or IOS?

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

There are MUD’s, Multi-user Dungeons, which used to be more like Dungeons and 
Dragons type simple stuff, but which have grown, some, to be pretty complex and 
large. Some accessible ones are:
Alteraeon 
Asteria 
Clok 
Erion 

And probably plenty more.
On the Mac, you’ll have to dig into the command line, getting Homebrew 
, TDSR , and Tintin 


On iOS, you’ll need to use MudRammer 
.
Hope this helps.
> On Mar 20, 2020, at 5:07 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Like many of you, I’m stuck at home while the Covid 19 situation plays itself 
> out, and am feeling more than a little stir crazy. I was just listening to 
> NPR and they had this great segment on open world games. These are games you 
> can play traditionally, but where you can also just wander around and explore 
> the world. Obviously for a sighted player, this would require pretty intense 
> graphics in order to be interesting, but it made me wonder if anyone knows of 
> similar games that are accessible?
> TIA,
> DonnDonnaa
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
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Re: Selecting text from a web page

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Using Safari, turn quick navigation off, and use Shift with the Arrow keys to 
select.

> On Feb 21, 2020, at 10:46 AM, Raul A. Gallegos  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> Quick question. If I am on a webpage and I am using VoiceOver, how do I 
> select text from the webpage? For example I might have a list of ingredients 
> or a list of hotkeys that I would like to save to a file. I am using Google 
> Chrome but can easily use Safari. Thank you for any assistance.
> 
> Raul A. Gallegos
> Assistive Technology Trainer - RGA Tech Solutions
> H: r...@raulgallegos.com  W: train...@rgats.com
> M: 832.554.7285   O: 832.639.4477
> Twitter: https://twitter.com/rga7285
> Facebook: https://facebook.com/rau47
> 
> “Any teacher that can be replaced with a computer, deserves to be.” - David 
> Thornburg
> 
> 
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Re: Accessible Terminal

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Sorry, I’ll add links:

TDSR: https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr <https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr>

Emacs: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/ <https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/>

Emacspeak: https://github.com/tvraman/emacspeak 
<https://github.com/tvraman/emacspeak>

A guide (contributions welcome), on installing Emacs and Emacspeak on the Mac 
and working with it: 
https://gist.github.com/devinprater/a794a448ccc46e72fca63c932105c043

> On Feb 18, 2020, at 3:02 PM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> devin,
> Do you mind adding a link to the tdsr program for the sake of our list 
> archive?
> Kare
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> 
>> Emacs with Emacspeak provides a great text editor, along with a shell that I 
>> think is somewhat usable, its main advantage being, to me, that unlike most 
>> terminals, Emas’ Shell allows one to read not just a page of output, but 
>> entire history. Something like TDSR with Screen, the shell command, may 
>> allow this as well, but gosh being able to search the history is great. 
>> TDSR, though, is the best terminal screen reader on Mac for more interactive 
>> commands, or things like SSH, Tintin, and other such connectors to remote 
>> services.
>> 
>>> On Feb 18, 2020, at 12:43 PM, Nebojsa Tasic  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi Devin!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Is Emacs with Emacspeak the tool that can replace Voice Over?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 13.2.2020. 16:40, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>>> Try TDSR: https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr
>>>> 
>>>> If you want a more complete workspace, try Emacs with Emacspeak: 
>>>> https://gist.github.com/devinprater/a794a448ccc46e72fca63c932105c043
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:02 AM, Nebojsa Tasic  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi All!
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Could you recommend me a program or add-on for more accessible work in 
>>>>> Terminal?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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Re: Accessible Terminal

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

To expand on this, Emacs is a text editor with adding to be an IRC client, 
terminal, Git client, blog handler, and plenty more. Emacspeak is the subsystem 
which makes it self-voicing.

> On Feb 18, 2020, at 2:31 PM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Emacs with Emacspeak provides a great text editor, along with a shell that I 
> think is somewhat usable, its main advantage being, to me, that unlike most 
> terminals, Emas’ Shell allows one to read not just a page of output, but 
> entire history. Something like TDSR with Screen, the shell command, may allow 
> this as well, but gosh being able to search the history is great. TDSR, 
> though, is the best terminal screen reader on Mac for more interactive 
> commands, or things like SSH, Tintin, and other such connectors to remote 
> services.
> 
>> On Feb 18, 2020, at 12:43 PM, Nebojsa Tasic  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Devin!
>> 
>> 
>> Is Emacs with Emacspeak the tool that can replace Voice Over?
>> 
>> 
>> On 13.2.2020. 16:40, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> Try TDSR: https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr
>>> 
>>> If you want a more complete workspace, try Emacs with Emacspeak: 
>>> https://gist.github.com/devinprater/a794a448ccc46e72fca63c932105c043
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:02 AM, Nebojsa Tasic  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hi All!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Could you recommend me a program or add-on for more accessible work in 
>>>> Terminal?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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Re: Accessible Terminal

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Emacs with Emacspeak provides a great text editor, along with a shell that I 
think is somewhat usable, its main advantage being, to me, that unlike most 
terminals, Emas’ Shell allows one to read not just a page of output, but entire 
history. Something like TDSR with Screen, the shell command, may allow this as 
well, but gosh being able to search the history is great. TDSR, though, is the 
best terminal screen reader on Mac for more interactive commands, or things 
like SSH, Tintin, and other such connectors to remote services.

> On Feb 18, 2020, at 12:43 PM, Nebojsa Tasic  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Devin!
> 
> 
> Is Emacs with Emacspeak the tool that can replace Voice Over?
> 
> 
> On 13.2.2020. 16:40, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> Try TDSR: https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr
>> 
>> If you want a more complete workspace, try Emacs with Emacspeak: 
>> https://gist.github.com/devinprater/a794a448ccc46e72fca63c932105c043
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:02 AM, Nebojsa Tasic  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi All!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Could you recommend me a program or add-on for more accessible work in 
>>> Terminal?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
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> 
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Re: Accessible Terminal

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Try TDSR: https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr

If you want a more complete workspace, try Emacs with Emacspeak: 
https://gist.github.com/devinprater/a794a448ccc46e72fca63c932105c043



> On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:02 AM, Nebojsa Tasic  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi All!
> 
> 
> Could you recommend me a program or add-on for more accessible work in 
> Terminal?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: reading bookshare books

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

If you are updated to Catalina, you can open the EPUB book in the Books app and 
it reads … okay… or, if you are more technically minded, you can install Emacs, 
Emacspeak, and use Nov.el to read it.

> On Feb 9, 2020, at 9:18 AM, hemaka...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> How do I access bookshare books on the Mac? Kindly advise. 
> 
> Warmly,
> Hem.
> 
> 
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Re: Writing Documents using Catalina

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Get Pandoc through Homebrew , perhaps learn to use the Mac’s 
terminal.

> On Feb 7, 2020, at 4:38 PM, Paul Hopewell  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> Many thanks for the suggestions on this. However I am now more confused!
> 
> When I worked on software manuals I used a mark up language with notation 
> like….
> :h1.Heading textto denote a heading level 1
> :h2.Heading test  to denote a heading level 2 and so on
> :p.to start a new paragraph
> :ol. to start an ordered list which is terminated by :eol.
> :ul and :eul to denote the start and end of a bulleted list 
> :li.to denote a list item
> and various more complicated mark up tags but the above would do most of what 
> I need.
> 
> I was hoping that there is a similar mark up notation on the Mac. Something 
> like txt2tags looks like it might do the job as a mark up notation.
> 
> Having created my source document using a standard text editor and a suitable 
> mark up notation I then want a way to convert it to PDF or DOCX to pass onto 
> others.
> 
> I looked at pandoc which seemed to do the above and despite the warnings 
> about Apple not being able to check it out for malicious software I installed 
> pandoc. I was  hoping to then find some basic help on how to use pandoc but 
> did not see this. Instead I saw a menu with items like Terminal and Shell and 
> became very confused.
> 
> I also looked at LateC in the Mac App store which was equally confusing as to 
> what I actually needed to install if I wanted to go the markdown and LateX 
> route. However that seems more powerful and expensive than I need.
> 
> I would appreciate a bit more advice on what to do.
> Many thanks … Paul Hopewell
> 
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Re: Writing Documents using Catalina

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

What is the markup language? Emacs may have a mode for it, and Pandoc can 
convert to pdf and docs.

> On Feb 4, 2020, at 12:51 PM, Paul Hopewell  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> I find checking document layout particularly difficult using VO on Catalina. 
> When at work I used a mark up language a bit like html with tags for new 
> paragraphs, numbered and bulleted lists, list items, heading levels, and 
> title pages. Using this I could be confident that the document layout was 
> good.
> Is there any VO friendly App for Mac OS Catalina which uses mark up tags to 
> create a document and then process it to create PDF or DOCX files?
> Many thanks for any tips.
> 
> Paul Hopewell
> 
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Re: Books on Mac going busy

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

When you buy a book, and open it on the Mac, the book is downloaded. Besides 
that, I can only advise you to close other apps before opening the Books app, 
and see if that helps.

> On Jan 30, 2020, at 1:39 PM, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my IPhone I’m having a little trouble with Books app on Mac going 
> busy from time to time without any apparent reason. There’s no great surge in 
> processor or fan but it just goes busy. I’m wondering, are the books that I 
> buy through thebooks App Store stored on my Mac locally or are they in a 
> cloud?  and, might the fact that they’re in the cloud have something to do 
> with a busy activity.
> 
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Re: IRC client for either macOS or iOS

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Thanks, it works well. :)

> On Jan 23, 2020, at 8:29 AM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> OK, I have two links for you ...
> 
> 1.)   Doing a quick Google search found the following page that seems
> to be accurate, even though it thinks everyone in the world is using
> JAWS:
> 
> 2.)   I trimmed out a lot of personal data from my irssi config and
> posted it on line for you here:
> 
> https://rednote.net/irssi_example_config 
> <https://rednote.net/irssi_example_config>
> 
> Please note this is from my woring ~/.irssi/config file. However, it's
> been put together over many years. There are undoubtedly things there
> that don't matter. Mostly likely there are likely redundancies. I make
> no claim for this being a clean file, just that it represents the blind
> friendly configurations important to making irssi work with a screen
> reader--at least for me.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Janina
> 
> 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries writes:
>> Hey, can you share what to configure to make IRSSI more blind friendly? I 
>> don’t know much about using it, sadly, just how to connect to server and 
>> join rooms and quit, lol. With TDSR, yes, turn off VoiceOver, with Command + 
>> F5 on non-Touchbar Macs, and Command + Tripple Press Touch ID on Macs with 
>> the Touchbard. 
>> 
>>> On Jan 23, 2020, at 7:15 AM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Devin:
>>> 
>>> Just to clarify, TDSR is sufficiently reliable to do real work in the
>>> Mac terminal? I'm assuming one silences VO in preference to TDSR while in
>>> the Terminal? I presume there's a way to automate that?
>>> 
>>> I do agree on the IRSSI recommendation. It's a thoroughly powerful and
>>> capable IRC client. It takes some configuration to make it blind
>>> friendly, but it works very well indeed. I use it daily on Linux as part
>>> of my W3C work.
>>> 
>>> The weakness on Mac has always been VO, imo.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Janina
>>> 
>>> 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries writes:
>>>> On Mac, get TDSR <https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr 
>>>> <https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr><https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr 
>>>> <https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr>>>, then get IRSSI from Home-brew, and 
>>>> install IRSSI-sounds <https://gitlab.com/stormdragon2976/irssi-sound 
>>>> <https://gitlab.com/stormdragon2976/irssi-sound><https://gitlab.com/stormdragon2976/irssi-sound
>>>>  <https://gitlab.com/stormdragon2976/irssi-sound>>>. This will give you a 
>>>> pretty accessible setup.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 20, 2020, at 12:00 PM, Pete Nalda >>>> <mailto:lpna...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> On the Mac I use Textual, and colloquy for iOS. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Egun On, Lagunak! (basque for G'day, Mates
>>>>> Louie P (Pete) Nalda
>>>>> MySpace.com/musikonalda <http://myspace.com/musikonalda>
>>>>> Facebook.com/lpnalda <http://facebook.com/lpnalda>
>>>>> Linkedin.com/in/lpnalda <http://linkedin.com/in/lpnalda>
>>>>> Twitter: @lpnalda
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 20, 2020, at 11:21 AM, Sandie Jazmin Kruse >>>>> <mailto:sandi1...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I believe there is Xchat, for mac , at least not sure about iOS.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 20 Jan 2020, at 17.05, Greg Wocher >>>>>> <mailto:gwoc...@gwocher.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>> Anyone know of an accessible IRC client for either macOS or iOS? I am 
>>>>>>> taking a python course and they set up an IRC channel for the class.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Greg Wocher
>>>>>>> 
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Re: IRC client for either macOS or iOS

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Hey, can you share what to configure to make IRSSI more blind friendly? I don’t 
know much about using it, sadly, just how to connect to server and join rooms 
and quit, lol. With TDSR, yes, turn off VoiceOver, with Command + F5 on 
non-Touchbar Macs, and Command + Tripple Press Touch ID on Macs with the 
Touchbard. 

> On Jan 23, 2020, at 7:15 AM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Devin:
> 
> Just to clarify, TDSR is sufficiently reliable to do real work in the
> Mac terminal? I'm assuming one silences VO in preference to TDSR while in
> the Terminal? I presume there's a way to automate that?
> 
> I do agree on the IRSSI recommendation. It's a thoroughly powerful and
> capable IRC client. It takes some configuration to make it blind
> friendly, but it works very well indeed. I use it daily on Linux as part
> of my W3C work.
> 
> The weakness on Mac has always been VO, imo.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Janina
> 
> 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries writes:
>> On Mac, get TDSR <https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr 
>> <https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr>>, then get IRSSI from Home-brew, and 
>> install IRSSI-sounds <https://gitlab.com/stormdragon2976/irssi-sound 
>> <https://gitlab.com/stormdragon2976/irssi-sound>>. This will give you a 
>> pretty accessible setup.
>> 
>>> On Jan 20, 2020, at 12:00 PM, Pete Nalda  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On the Mac I use Textual, and colloquy for iOS. 
>>> 
>>> Egun On, Lagunak! (basque for G'day, Mates
>>> Louie P (Pete) Nalda
>>> MySpace.com/musikonalda
>>> Facebook.com/lpnalda
>>> Linkedin.com/in/lpnalda
>>> Twitter: @lpnalda
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 20, 2020, at 11:21 AM, Sandie Jazmin Kruse  
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I believe there is Xchat, for mac , at least not sure about iOS.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>> 
>>>>> On 20 Jan 2020, at 17.05, Greg Wocher  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>> Anyone know of an accessible IRC client for either macOS or iOS? I am 
>>>>> taking a python course and they set up an IRC channel for the class.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Greg Wocher
>>>>> 
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Re: .dss files.

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

What program is used to open these files?

> On Jan 21, 2020, at 12:47 PM, 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Please can someone also tell me if .DSS files can be opened by Windows or 
> MacOS please as I hve not used them but I might have to if I pass my 
> application to become an Audio Typist for a company.
> 
> Thanks so much.
> 
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Re: IRC client for either macOS or iOS

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

On Mac, get TDSR , then get IRSSI from 
Home-brew, and install IRSSI-sounds 
. This will give you a pretty 
accessible setup.

> On Jan 20, 2020, at 12:00 PM, Pete Nalda  wrote:
> 
> On the Mac I use Textual, and colloquy for iOS. 
> 
> Egun On, Lagunak! (basque for G'day, Mates
> Louie P (Pete) Nalda
> MySpace.com/musikonalda
> Facebook.com/lpnalda
> Linkedin.com/in/lpnalda
> Twitter: @lpnalda
> 
>> On Jan 20, 2020, at 11:21 AM, Sandie Jazmin Kruse  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I believe there is Xchat, for mac , at least not sure about iOS.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On 20 Jan 2020, at 17.05, Greg Wocher  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello all,
>>> Anyone know of an accessible IRC client for either macOS or iOS? I am 
>>> taking a python course and they set up an IRC channel for the class.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Greg Wocher
>>> 
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Re: PDF reader for Mac?

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Adobe reader is also surprisingly accessible on both Mac and iOS.

> On Jan 10, 2020, at 3:03 PM, Bradford Snyder  wrote:
> 
> Have you tried using Preview?  Preview comes with the macOS, so you can find 
> it in your Applications folder.  Check it out.
> 
> HTH
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 10, 2020, at 11:57, Matt Turner  wrote:
> 
> Hi folks.
> Just wondered if there was a good pdf reader for the Mac?
> 
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Re: docx files in Pages on a Mac

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Try interacting with the document, the page one, then the text edit field, and 
Read all from there.

> On Dec 30, 2019, at 1:06 PM, Lorie McCloud  wrote:
> 
> how do you read docx files in pages on a Mac? I'm still running Mojave. 
> here's what I do. vo-right arrow to "document" interact and then press vo-A. 
> it reads page 1 and then stops. what do I do if I want it to read the entire 
> document?
> 
> thanks.
> Lorie
> 
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Re: Reading from VO Cursor to End

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

You have to put the VOICEOVER cursor where you want to read. I think 
interacting with the text area is good enough, and move it to the spot and 
press VOICEOVER + A.

> On Dec 28, 2019, at 1:20 PM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> 
> Okay, I forgot. I know read all is VO+A. But sometimes that command 
> automatically jumps to the top of a document and reads the entire thing. How 
> do I read from my current VO position to the end of a document?
> Dave Carlson
> Engineer, Pioneer, Farfar, Woodworker, Musician, and Oregonian
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: AppleBooks on IOS and OSX

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

On the Mac, in Catalina, it’s very good now for reading text, I’ve not tried 
with audio books though.

> On Dec 19, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> How is Applebooks for reading text and listening to audio books? I’ve just 
> installed Catalina and am exploring Apple Books. It has many selections I am 
> interested in, both books and audio, but before I buy anything I thought I’d 
> ask about its accessibility. I’ve used Kindle for IOS, but, although it is 
> quite accessible, I  am not entirely satisfied with the reading granularity. 
> If Apple Books is no better or worse than kindle then at least it has 
> selections that I haven’t been able to find elsewhere and would work for that 
> reason.
> 
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Re: Kindle for Mac and iOS

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

On the Mac, on Catalina, Kindle is not accessible as far as reading books, 
whereas Apple Books is. On iOS, both are good, but Apple Books shows more 
formatting, like headings.

> On Dec 12, 2019, at 10:43 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   Just curious how Kindle stacks up against Apple Books on both Mac and iOS 
> accessibility-wise.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
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Re: Delete text with VoiceOver in Catalina.

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Sorry, I’ve not come across this. Maybe email accessibil...@apple.com 
 about it.

> On Nov 13, 2019, at 11:09 AM, 'Gary Price' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone!
> 
> I've recently upgraded to Mac OS Catalina.
> I've noticed a possible serious bug with VoiceOver.
> When typing text into messages for example, VoiceOver says absolutely nothing 
> when pressing the Backspace key.
> But it worked absolutely fine in Mojave.
> 
> I've just noticed something interesting it works fine in Mail.
> 
> Has anyone on here noticed this?
> I have submitted a comment to Applevis, but had no response yet.
> 
> Thanks very much, I look forward to any responses.
> Gary Price
> Sent from my 13 inch Mac book pro.
> 
> This address is for personal contact:
> garypric...@icloud.com
> 
> Twitter:
> http://www.twitter.com/gazwprice
> 
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Re: Safari busy way too often, tired of Apple's quality control issues

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

For me, I don’t get Safari busy often at all. Well, on sites with a lot of 
video and bad coding, yes, but I’ve learned to just avoid those sites. Running 
macOS Catalina on a MacBook Pro 2019.

> On Nov 3, 2019, at 5:15 PM, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi Andrew
> 
> You don't need to buy a pc as you just need  bootcamp which is built in to 
> your mac.
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries  
> Sent: Sunday, 3 November 2019 8:07 AM
> To: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
> Subject: Re: Safari busy way too often, tired of Apple's quality control 
> issues
> 
> Hi Eric,
> 
> I understand your frustration.  I have similar problems on a website that has 
> a lot of material and possibly graphics/pictures.  I’m also now irritated 
> about certain bugs which Apple has failed to fix although I’ve been reporting 
> them for over 4 years.  Getting a Pc has also crossed my mind.  But I have no 
> solution sadly.
> 
> Andrew
>> On 2 Nov 2019, at 17:38, Eric Brinkman  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I am hearing "Safari busy" way too often on my Mac.  I just visited 
>> allmusic.com and tried to look up an artist and read the bio and some 
>> album reviews.  When I first accessed the site, VO would say "Safari 
>> busy" but would work eventually.  Then when I got to the artist's 
>> actual page, it just got stuck on busy.  This is happening far too 
>> often and I am winding up using Windows in Fusion, which has its own 
>> issues.  It drains the battery more quickly and just isn't as 
>> responsive.  With all of the other issues in Catalina and IOS 13, I am 
>> considering just buying a PC.  Apple's quality control is just not 
>> there anymore.  Are other people experiencing "Safari busy"
>> frequently?  Have you found a solution?
>> 
>> Thanks in advance,
>> 
>> Eric
>> 
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Re: Siri learns new languages

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

This sounds like the beginning of a project. Apple has to be working with this 
company, or they couldn’t “teach” Siri anything. Otherwise, I could just buy 
enough iPhones and such to “pay” Apple to teach Siri Esperanto, lol.

> On Oct 23, 2019, at 12:43 AM, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi List,
>  
> So I thought some might like this one,
>  
> The New Zealand government has just announced they have paid an NZ company 13 
> million  nz dollars to teach Siri how to speak Maori
>  
> It the language of the so called native new Zealand people.
>  
> Or should I say a race of people here before the English turned up 250 years 
> ago.
>  
> That must be what you have to do to teach siri new languages.
>  
> Petrus,
> 
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Re: Voiceover on startup

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

System Preferences, go to User groups. In there, click the Login options in the 
group after the toolbar, not the tab. Now, click the “accessibility” button, 
and in the table, check Voiceover. Click apply, and it should work now.

> On Oct 9, 2019, at 2:41 PM, Petrus Tuerlings  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> This is going to sound like a silly and basic question. How does one turn on 
> Voiceover to run on the startup of the Mac? I have it set up on my Mac of 
> corse and a friend helped me set it up so I never found out what she did. I’d 
> like to get voiceover to start up automatically on my wife’s Mac when I 
> restart it. But not sure where I’m supposed to look to do this? 
> Thanks,
> 
> Petrus 
> Sent from Petrus' MacBook 
> 
> 
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Re: Introducing New VOCR For Bravehearts: Navigate Your Mac With OCR With Machine Learning on Catalina!

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Thanks so much, this works very well. I only wish that something like this were 
available on iOS.

> On Oct 8, 2019, at 6:32 PM, Chi Kim  wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
>  
> Sorry for cross-posting, but I'm just writing to let everyone know that I 
> just released a new experimental VOCR.
> If you haven't heard VOCR, it's an app that lets you take screenshot of your 
> mac screen, apply OCR, navigate the result, and move the mouse using 
> Voiceover. It's similar to features on JAWS and NVDA.
> Previously I made VOCR to utilize third party tools such as Tesseract, 
> Keyboard Maestro, and ImageMagick, so you needed to fiddle with terminal 
> commands.
> Now, new VOCR is a standalone app, and furthermore it utilizes the OCR 
> capability in VisionKit that takes advantage of machine learning on MacOS 
> Catalina. The result is much faster and accurate than Tesseract.
> Because the tight security in Catalina, there are multiple steps for the 
> initial setup. You can read the instruction below.
> https://github.com/chigkim/VOCR/tree/VK
> This is highly experimental, so use at own your risk!
> Lastly, this kind of feature should be really built into Voiceover in my 
> opinion. If you know anyone at Apple, let them know.
> Enjoy,
>  
> Chi
>  
> 
> 
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Re: catalina question passwords

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

I just press Down Arrow and, in my case, use the Touch ID button

> On Oct 8, 2019, at 11:50 AM, alia robinson  wrote:
> 
> Okay, everytime there’s a new update I can’t autofill passwords. the way I 
> used to do it doesn’t work.
> 
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Re: The New Features, Changes, Improvements, and Bugs in macOS Catalina for Blind and Low Vision Users | AppleVis

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Yeah, they forgot about Books app being very usable now too. Lol I guess one of 
us will have to join the Applevis team as a Mac and Braille user. Don’t pick me 
don’t pick me don’t pick me.

> On Oct 8, 2019, at 1:24 AM, 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I noticed that they didn't talk about the big feature that Voiceover has. If 
> you look in your speech rotor by pressing VO+Command+Shift+arrow keys, you'll 
> notice that you can now use the Siri voices with Voiceover. This is a great 
> feature that some of us including myself have always wanted and now it's 
> here. I've been using the female US Siri voice named Nora since it came out 
> in the beta cycle and she works great. The only annoyance I have with her is 
> that she buffers sometimes. But that hasn't stopped me from using her as my 
> voice.
> 
> Regards,
> Shawn,
> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
> 
> Want to join my WhatsApp groups such as Echo Enthusiasts, Accessibility 
> Matters or my new group, Mac Users And Newbies? Send me a private email with 
> your contact information and I'll happily add you.
> 
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 
> 
>> On Oct 7, 2019, at 6:35 PM, Petrus Tuerlings > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> https://www.applevis.com/blog/new-features-changes-improvements-and-bugs-macos-catalina-blind-and-low-vision-users
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> The New Features, Changes, Improvements, and Bugs in macOS Catalina for 
>> Blind and Low Vision Users
>> 
>> 7 October, 2019
>>  
>> Apple has today released macOS 10.15 Catalina to the public. As usual, we 
>> won’t cover the mainstream features here, concentrating instead on what's 
>> new and changed for blind and low vision users. For an overview of the 
>> mainstream changes, we recommend that you read this AppleInsider review of 
>> Catalina 
>> .
>> 
>> Please remember to check the section about bugs to see if now is the right 
>> time to upgrade. There’s no harm in holding off a few weeks or months to let 
>> Apple address a problem you may find too disruptive to deal with.
>> 
>> A note to braille users: the AppleVis team members doing testing with 
>> Catalina are not heavy braille users. We have no information as to how well 
>> braille works in this release, so please keep this in mind when upgrading. 
>> If you are a braille user and have any experience with macOS Catalina and 
>> braille, please do post your findings in the comments.
>> 
>> Changes for Blind and Low Vision Users
>> 
>> Last year there were no big changes to VoiceOver or Zoom in macOS Mojave 
>> .
>>  This is not the case with macOS Catalina, which sees the introduction of 
>> some interesting–and potentially powerful–enhancements for blind and low 
>> vision users.
>> 
>> Custom Punctuation
>> 
>> In 2017, Apple removed the "most" punctuation setting, leaving coders and 
>> those doing document editing with no good options for hearing the 
>> punctuation they needed. Catalina fixes this in a big way. Users can now 
>> create custom punctuation groups, in which each symbol can be specified. 
>> Symbols can be replaced with custom text, such as "left paren" in place of 
>> the left parenthesis; skipped by VoiceOver and sent directly to the speech 
>> synthesizer in use, to be interpreted there instead; or silently ignored 
>> altogether.
>> 
>> As with some other features in macOS Catalina, this new punctuation setup is 
>> similar to that in iOS 13. Better still, the two will sync. You can set up a 
>> custom group on either platform, and it should appear on all your macOS and 
>> iOS devices soon after.
>> 
>> Voice Control
>> 
>> A significant enhancement this year from Apple is a new Voice Control 
>> accessibility feature that allows users to fully control Mac, iOS, and 
>> iPadOS devices entirely with their voice.
>> 
>> Voice Control improves on the existing Enhanced Dictation feature by using 
>> the Siri speech recognition engine, so you get the latest advances in 
>> machine learning for audio-to-text transcription.
>> 
>> Highlights of Voice Control include:
>> 
>> Add custom words: whether you’re writing a biology report, filling out a 
>> legal document, or emailing about a favorite topic, you can add custom words 
>> to ensure that Voice Control recognizes the words you commonly use.
>> Rich text editing: thanks to rich text editing commands, you don’t have to 
>> rehearse before you speak. Making corrections is quick and easy

Re: Catalina OSx

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

I still want to know what these bugs are. I mean, irritating in Safari isn’t 
very specific. I want to know if they’re irritating enough to justify holding 
off or not.

> On Oct 7, 2019, at 10:45 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   Interesting perspective, because many many complaints are in fact Voiceover 
> bugs. So Voiceover is not of much importance as the rest. We'll just suggest 
> that Voiceover users send feedback to Apple. Right.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 10/7/2019 8:25 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> I’m bothering because I have this idea that with Catalina will come iPad 
>> apps, like Overcast, Voice Dream Reader and Writer, and so many games. I 
>> will hold this idea until it is mercilessly shattered in a year or two when 
>> it sinks in that no, developers don’t really have a need to support Mac. And 
>> there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, at least from me.
>> All that to say, I’ll gladly put up with a /few/ Voiceover bugs if it means 
>> iPad apps.
>>> On Oct 7, 2019, at 10:22 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>   Rushed? Maybe. But no doubt Apple is already building macOS 10.16. 
>>> Perhaps even 10.17. So why bother with Catalina, just wait a year... or two.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com <mailto:ancient.ali...@icloud.com>
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 10/7/2019 8:12 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>>> No, I was not serious. Really, if you require a rock-solid build, I’d wait 
>>>> until the second major release, or even until next June when it should be 
>>>> pretty solid, lol. That’s just one of the problems of having a yearly 
>>>> release, things are rushed.
>>>>> On Oct 7, 2019, at 10:02 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>> >>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>   Are you serious, Devin? Let me see... No, this isn't SNL. Fact check. 
>>>>> The Catalina public beta started over 3 months ago. I guess iOS/iPadOS 
>>>>> was the primary focus and Macs are primarily used in work environments so 
>>>>> it is not worthy of our time snf effort. By the way. if those blind 
>>>>> people at Apple can work on macOS then they can also work on the others 
>>>>> so we need not bother.
>>>>> 
>>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com <mailto:ancient.ali...@icloud.com>
>>>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 10/7/2019 7:37 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>>>>> Lol because its release week now and oh my gosh it’ll actually effect a 
>>>>>> large number of people now and we may not be ready. Ah well, maybe there 
>>>>>> are blind people at Apple who use Macs who can help whatever bugs remain 
>>>>>> get ironed out because Macs are work devices. At least the pro ones.
>>>>>>> On Oct 7, 2019, at 9:24 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>>> >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>   We should have had these discussions on the public beta group. Why 
>>>>>>> now?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>>>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com <mailto:ancient.ali...@icloud.com>
>>>>>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>>>>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 10/7/2019 6:49 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>>>>>>> What irritating things? May we please have specifics here?
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 7, 2019, at 8:36 AM, Anders Holmberg >>>>>>>> <mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>>>> You can upgrade but be aware that there are irritating th

Re: Catalina OSx

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

I’m bothering because I have this idea that with Catalina will come iPad apps, 
like Overcast, Voice Dream Reader and Writer, and so many games. I will hold 
this idea until it is mercilessly shattered in a year or two when it sinks in 
that no, developers don’t really have a need to support Mac. And there will be 
weeping and gnashing of teeth, at least from me.

All that to say, I’ll gladly put up with a few Voiceover bugs if it means iPad 
apps.

> On Oct 7, 2019, at 10:22 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   Rushed? Maybe. But no doubt Apple is already building macOS 10.16. Perhaps 
> even 10.17. So why bother with Catalina, just wait a year... or two.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 10/7/2019 8:12 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> No, I was not serious. Really, if you require a rock-solid build, I’d wait 
>> until the second major release, or even until next June when it should be 
>> pretty solid, lol. That’s just one of the problems of having a yearly 
>> release, things are rushed.
>>> On Oct 7, 2019, at 10:02 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>   Are you serious, Devin? Let me see... No, this isn't SNL. Fact check. The 
>>> Catalina public beta started over 3 months ago. I guess iOS/iPadOS was the 
>>> primary focus and Macs are primarily used in work environments so it is not 
>>> worthy of our time snf effort. By the way. if those blind people at Apple 
>>> can work on macOS then they can also work on the others so we need not 
>>> bother.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 10/7/2019 7:37 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>>> Lol because its release week now and oh my gosh it’ll actually effect a 
>>>> large number of people now and we may not be ready. Ah well, maybe there 
>>>> are blind people at Apple who use Macs who can help whatever bugs remain 
>>>> get ironed out because Macs are work devices. At least the pro ones.
>>>>> On Oct 7, 2019, at 9:24 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>   We should have had these discussions on the public beta group. Why now?
>>>>> 
>>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 10/7/2019 6:49 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>>>>> What irritating things? May we please have specifics here?
>>>>>>> On Oct 7, 2019, at 8:36 AM, Anders Holmberg  
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>> You can upgrade but be aware that there are irritating things with 
>>>>>>> Safari and VoiceOver.
>>>>>>> Especially if you’re using a braille display.
>>>>>>> /A
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 6 okt. 2019 kl. 17:29 skrev Dave Carlson :
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Haven’t heard lately from any of the early adopters/testers of the 
>>>>>>>> Catalina release. Is it stable, or are there issues with Voiceover? Is 
>>>>>>>> there any compelling reason to consider upgrading from Mojave?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Dave Carlson
>>>>>>>> Musician, Engineer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, and Pioneer
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>>>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>>>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
>>>>>>>> itself.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Your

Re: Catalina OSx

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

No, I was not serious. Really, if you require a rock-solid build, I’d wait 
until the second major release, or even until next June when it should be 
pretty solid, lol. That’s just one of the problems of having a yearly release, 
things are rushed.

> On Oct 7, 2019, at 10:02 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   Are you serious, Devin? Let me see... No, this isn't SNL. Fact check. The 
> Catalina public beta started over 3 months ago. I guess iOS/iPadOS was the 
> primary focus and Macs are primarily used in work environments so it is not 
> worthy of our time snf effort. By the way. if those blind people at Apple can 
> work on macOS then they can also work on the others so we need not bother.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 10/7/2019 7:37 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> Lol because its release week now and oh my gosh it’ll actually effect a 
>> large number of people now and we may not be ready. Ah well, maybe there are 
>> blind people at Apple who use Macs who can help whatever bugs remain get 
>> ironed out because Macs are work devices. At least the pro ones.
>>> On Oct 7, 2019, at 9:24 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>   We should have had these discussions on the public beta group. Why now?
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 10/7/2019 6:49 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>>> What irritating things? May we please have specifics here?
>>>>> On Oct 7, 2019, at 8:36 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi!
>>>>> You can upgrade but be aware that there are irritating things with Safari 
>>>>> and VoiceOver.
>>>>> Especially if you’re using a braille display.
>>>>> /A
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 6 okt. 2019 kl. 17:29 skrev Dave Carlson :
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Haven’t heard lately from any of the early adopters/testers of the 
>>>>>> Catalina release. Is it stable, or are there issues with Voiceover? Is 
>>>>>> there any compelling reason to consider upgrading from Mojave?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dave Carlson
>>>>>> Musician, Engineer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, and Pioneer
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
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>>>>> 
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Re: Catalina OSx

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Lol because its release week now and oh my gosh it’ll actually effect a large 
number of people now and we may not be ready. Ah well, maybe there are blind 
people at Apple who use Macs who can help whatever bugs remain get ironed out 
because Macs are work devices. At least the pro ones.

> On Oct 7, 2019, at 9:24 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   We should have had these discussions on the public beta group. Why now?
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 10/7/2019 6:49 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> What irritating things? May we please have specifics here?
>>> On Oct 7, 2019, at 8:36 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> You can upgrade but be aware that there are irritating things with Safari 
>>> and VoiceOver.
>>> Especially if you’re using a braille display.
>>> /A
>>> 
>>>> 6 okt. 2019 kl. 17:29 skrev Dave Carlson :
>>>> 
>>>> Haven’t heard lately from any of the early adopters/testers of the 
>>>> Catalina release. Is it stable, or are there issues with Voiceover? Is 
>>>> there any compelling reason to consider upgrading from Mojave?
>>>> 
>>>> Dave Carlson
>>>> Musician, Engineer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, and Pioneer
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>> 
>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>> 
>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>> 
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>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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>>> 
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Re: Catalina OSx

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

What irritating things? May we please have specifics here?

> On Oct 7, 2019, at 8:36 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> You can upgrade but be aware that there are irritating things with Safari and 
> VoiceOver.
> Especially if you’re using a braille display.
> /A
> 
>> 6 okt. 2019 kl. 17:29 skrev Dave Carlson :
>> 
>> Haven’t heard lately from any of the early adopters/testers of the Catalina 
>> release. Is it stable, or are there issues with Voiceover? Is there any 
>> compelling reason to consider upgrading from Mojave?
>> 
>> Dave Carlson
>> Musician, Engineer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, and Pioneer
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
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>> 
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> 
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Re: Reading Sender Email Address

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Well, I mean, VOICEOVER Space will open the Context menu in this case, that’s 
what I meant.

> On Oct 2, 2019, at 10:23 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I've found that you don't need to use the Contextual menu command, you can 
> simply VO-space on the name of the sender and the menu will appear.  Dave, if 
> there's no proper eMail address, then I'd assume that it's a spoof or cloak 
> or whatever other expression we like to use to say that it's simply worth a 
> delete key action.
> 
> Later...
> 
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Jamf Certified Associate
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Oct 2, 2019, at 09:10, Dave Carlson  > wrote:
> 
> Devon,
> Wow. It took several attempts to get it down. Quite a whonky method to get 
> something simple, but it does work. Trouble I’m finding now is that the 
> message I was inspecting as suspicious shows as a blank mail address. Wonder 
> if it is cloaked?
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Engineer, Pioneer, Farfar, Woodworker, Musician, and Oregonian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Reading Sender Email Address

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

What I just did is, VOICEOVER+left arrow to the message header, interact with 
that, then the text, VOICEOVER+Right arrow to your name, VOICEOVER+Space to 
open the … What does Apple call it? The context men, VOICEOVER+Down arrow and 
it’ll say “Check mark,” then the email address.

> On Oct 2, 2019, at 8:08 AM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> There are times when I want to know the actual email address of a sender. In 
> particular, when I have a mail message that seems fishy. How do I get to the 
> FROM: field so that I can read the underlying address of the sender? Can’t 
> seem to get at it in the message headers section. Perhaps I need to adjust a 
> setting?
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Possible text

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

You can turn this off in verbosity settings.

> On Oct 2, 2019, at 8:30 AM, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> After upgrading to 13.1, voiceover is always saying "possible text "at the 
> most inconvenient times. When I am reading in voice dream reader or voice 
> stream writer for example. What is this "possible text "message coming from 
> and is there anything I can do to prevent it? It seems to say possible text 
> followed by a few letters or even a word or two. And it is someone random in 
> not always predictable when it will happen. Any help greatly appreciate it.
> 
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
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Re: Extra Key clicks

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Yes, except no general. Just Accessibility, VoiceOver, Audio, Sounds and 
Haptics.

> On Sep 20, 2019, at 1:25 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   This is now in General, Accessibility, Voiceover, Audio, Sounds and 
> Haptics, Sounds.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 9/20/2019 10:15 AM, Angus MacKinnon wrote:
>> Tim
>> Thank you. I went to Settings and Sound and Haptics. All I got my Phone Ring 
>> Tone every five (5) seconds with a 1 second sample and when I dragbed the 
>> finger down and got the extra Key Clicks. Not one setting turned off the 
>> extra Key Clicks.
>> Angus MacKinnon, Personalism Student
>> Charles Péguy said, “The revolution is moral or not at all”
>>> On Sep 20, 2019, at 9:26 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> This is the haptics engine doing its thing.  You can modify those settings 
>>> in Settings, Sounds & Haptics.
>>> 
>>> Later...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Apple Teacher
>>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>>> Jamf Certified Associate
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
>>> On Sep 20, 2019, at 10:23, Angus MacKinnon >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> I upgraded my iPhone XR to IOS 13.0. When everytime I move my finger around 
>>> the screen, I hear very fast Key Clicks . Like when I unlock the iPhone I 
>>> get extra Key Clicks and not just the number when my finger is on a number. 
>>> How do I turn off these extra Key Clicks, so I just have the number my 
>>> finger is resting on? Thankk you.
>>> 
>>> Angus MacKinnon, Personalism Student
>>> Charles Péguy said, “The revolution is moral or not at all”
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: Getting Row and Column Headers to Speak in Excel

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Okay, this is strange. So, I have 8 columns that should be spoken as I navigate 
through the rows of. The columns start around from A7 to H7. When I set Column 
header, in the “table” formatter tab, it just sets row 1 and up as the header. 
Maybe this isn’t what I’m looking for? I just want Voiceover to speak the 
headers as I move through them, like NVDA does with Insert+Shift+C for column 
titles.

> On Sep 16, 2019, at 11:24 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Devin,
> 
> As long as you've designated the row or column as a Header Row or Header 
> Column, just press VO-r or VO-c to hear the titles for the rows and/or 
> columns.  You designate these under the Table menu in the MenuBar.  If you 
> have one row at the top that you wish to be the Header Row, then select "1" 
> from the sub-menu.  If header rows or columns are not designated, Numbers 
> will simply tell you the cell reference column letter or row number.
> 
> HTH.
> 
> Later...
> 
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Jamf Certified Associate
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 16, 2019, at 10:12, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
> Is there a way to read headers in Numbers? I have a time sheet, with
> Date   Clock inClock out   Clock inClock out   time 
> worked
> That kind of thing, and going back up to the header column is really tedious. 
> 
>> On Sep 16, 2019, at 10:46 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Dave,
>> 
>> I get it now.  The problem arises from the way that Excel is laid out 
>> compared to Numbers.  Notice that the Column headings such as A, B, C etc 
>> are handled differently in Excel and Numbers.  In Excel, you can move one 
>> row up and read the cell reference letters pertaining to the column headers. 
>>  In Numbers, you need to use the VO-back slash command to access these 
>> column headers.  This is an inherent difference in that Numbers presents the 
>> spreadsheet as. a grouping of tables each with column and row headers.  This 
>> makes it easier to use the VO table commands to work within the Numbers app. 
>>  Because Excel uses different formatting of the sheet itself, the normal VO 
>> table commands do not work as expected.  Excel is an amazing spreadsheet 
>> app, and, essentially, is more powerful than Numbers, but from a VO 
>> prospective, is not as friendly.  to the sighted user, these issues probably 
>> wouldn't present themselves, but to us, they are a barrier.  I totally 
>> understand about wanting to know the title of the headers, but I'm thinking 
>> that, as you've aptly determined, this is more problematic in Excel than 
>> Numbers.
>> 
>> Sorry I didn't find a solution for you.
>> 
>> Best.
>> 
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Apple Teacher
>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>> Jamf Certified Associate
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Sep 16, 2019, at 08:46, Dave Carlson > <mailto:dgcarl...@sbcglobal.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> Tim,
>> You may have already caught the underlying problem: It not the lack of the 
>> Column/Row coordinates, it’s that the top row and leftmost column cannot be 
>> set up to speak as I navigate the spreadsheet. My large financial sheets  
>> elude my brain’s ability to remember just what each row means, or what each 
>> column is.
>> 
>> Dave Carlson
>> Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
>>  
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Re: Getting Row and Column Headers to Speak in Excel

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Is there a way to read headers in Numbers? I have a time sheet, with
Date Clock inClock out   Clock inClock out   time 
worked
That kind of thing, and going back up to the header column is really tedious. 

> On Sep 16, 2019, at 10:46 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Dave,
> 
> I get it now.  The problem arises from the way that Excel is laid out 
> compared to Numbers.  Notice that the Column headings such as A, B, C etc are 
> handled differently in Excel and Numbers.  In Excel, you can move one row up 
> and read the cell reference letters pertaining to the column headers.  In 
> Numbers, you need to use the VO-back slash command to access these column 
> headers.  This is an inherent difference in that Numbers presents the 
> spreadsheet as. a grouping of tables each with column and row headers.  This 
> makes it easier to use the VO table commands to work within the Numbers app.  
> Because Excel uses different formatting of the sheet itself, the normal VO 
> table commands do not work as expected.  Excel is an amazing spreadsheet app, 
> and, essentially, is more powerful than Numbers, but from a VO prospective, 
> is not as friendly.  to the sighted user, these issues probably wouldn't 
> present themselves, but to us, they are a barrier.  I totally understand 
> about wanting to know the title of the headers, but I'm thinking that, as 
> you've aptly determined, this is more problematic in Excel than Numbers.
> 
> Sorry I didn't find a solution for you.
> 
> Best.
> 
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Jamf Certified Associate
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 16, 2019, at 08:46, Dave Carlson  > wrote:
> 
> Tim,
> You may have already caught the underlying problem: It not the lack of the 
> Column/Row coordinates, it’s that the top row and leftmost column cannot be 
> set up to speak as I navigate the spreadsheet. My large financial sheets  
> elude my brain’s ability to remember just what each row means, or what each 
> column is.
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
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