Re: M3 15-inch MacBook Air vs M3 14-inch MacBook Pro -- Comparison

[Jonathan Cohn]

Here is a summary from the tidbits article that might help you decide.
Do note that the MB pro computers do have a brighter display, but if you aren’t 
really using the display I would go for the top of the line AIR over the bottom 
of the line Pro.

https://tidbits.com/2024/03/04/new-m3-macbook-air-models-can-drive-two-displays/
 
<https://tidbits.com/2024/03/04/new-m3-macbook-air-models-can-drive-two-displays/>

Purchasing Decisions

These new MacBook Air models are compelling for anyone buying their first 
MacBook Air, but do they provide sufficient improvements to prompt an upgrade? 
It all depends on where you’re coming from.

If budget is paramount, you can save a little money by purchasing the M2 
MacBook Air for as little as $999, though adding memory or storage pushes you 
into a range similar to the M3 models.
If you’ve held onto an Intel-based Mac this long and are considering a MacBook 
Air, upgrade immediately to an M3 MacBook Air. The performance jump from any 
Intel-based Mac will knock your socks off, and the M3 models will enjoy a 
longer lifespan than their M2 counterparts.
For those—like me—with an M1 MacBook Air, the main reason to upgrade is if you 
need more performance than the M1 chip can provide. The M3 benchmarks show it 
to be 25% to 35% faster 
<https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m3-vs-apple-m1> than the M1, and 
Apple cites more specific examples with larger gains 
<https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/03/apple-unveils-the-new-13-and-15-inch-macbook-air-with-the-powerful-m3-chip/>.
 But if performance is a concern, also consider a MacBook Pro with an M3 Pro or 
M3 Max processor.
If you have an M2 MacBook Air, the M3’s performance gains of 10% to 20% 
<https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m3-vs-apple-m2>probably aren’t 
significant enough to warrant upgrading.
Regardless of what you have now, if you want to drive two external displays 
from a laptop, the M3 MacBook Air models are a great buy. They’re much cheaper 
than the M3 Pro MacBook Pro models you’d otherwise need that start at $1999 for 
the 14-inch MacBook Pro and $2599 for the 16-inch model.
Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Mar 15, 2024, at 8:50 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Dave,
> 
> I can only answer for myself, but here you go.  In 2017, I bought my one and 
> only MacBook Pro.  All my other Macs, including my current 2023 M1 have been 
> MacBook Airs.
> 
> Brad makes a strong case that for an extra $100, the MBP is the better 
> machine.  But I’ve always liked the smaller form factor and the lighter 
> weight of the MBA.  When I taught face-to-face, I had to carry my computer 
> with me around campus.  I also like to take it when I travel, so the smaller 
> and lighter, the better.  The MBA has always met my computing needs, but I’m 
> not an artist, graphic designer, etc.  I liked my MBP a lot, but I also 
> thought it was probably overkill for my use case.  So, in 2020, when the M1 
> chips came out, I went back to a MacBook Air.  That said, From the specs Brad 
>  sent last night, the difference in weight between the two seems pretty 
> negligible.  I was thinking I might upgrade to the M3 Air, but now I’m not 
> sure, either whether I will upgrade, or, if I do, which machine I’ll get.  My 
> current leaning is to just hold off and see what next year brings.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Mar 14, 2024, at 11:53 PM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
>> 
>> Brad,
>> Thanks for this. Saw it after my question post Air vs. Pro. But still I 
>> wonder the use case. I used to think that the Air was designed to pull 
>> everything it needed to run (programs/apps) from the Internet, so not 
>> needing to store anything large on the machine except for data and 
>> personalizations. Is that no longer the push?
>> 
>> Dave Carlson
>> Oregonian, Woodworker, Farfar, Engineer, Musician
>> dgcarlson0...@gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mar 14, 2024, at 5:51 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
>> 
>> M3 15-inch MacBook Air vs M3 14-inch MacBook Pro -- Comparison... 
>> https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/03/13/m3-15-inch-macbook-air-vs-m3-14-inch-macbook-procomparison
>>  
>> <https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/03/13/m3-15-inch-macbook-air-vs-m3-14-inch-macbook-procomparison>
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>  
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Re: M3 15-inch MacBook Air vs M3 14-inch MacBook Pro -- Comparison

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

OMG, I *loved that 11-inch MBP.  It was less powerful, but so portable.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Mar 15, 2024, at 8:23 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> The original MacBook Air at 11.6”, and 13.3”, was thinner and lighter than 
> its MacBook Pro cousin.
> The original Air also had a less powerful processor..
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 15, 2024, at 08:07, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> Brad,
> 
> Then why on earth did Apple decide that there was something distinctive about 
> an Air vs. Pro? Simply size and weight? Color choices? Is this a parallel to 
> the iPhone and - Pro vs. SE?
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Farfar, Oregonian, Engineer, Woodworker, Musician
> dgcarlson0...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 14, 2024, at 11:00 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> Never was.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 14, 2024, at 23:53, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> Brad,
> Thanks for this. Saw it after my question post Air vs. Pro. But still I 
> wonder the use case. I used to think that the Air was designed to pull 
> everything it needed to run (programs/apps) from the Internet, so not needing 
> to store anything large on the machine except for data and personalizations. 
> Is that no longer the push?
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Oregonian, Woodworker, Farfar, Engineer, Musician
> dgcarlson0...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 14, 2024, at 5:51 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> M3 15-inch MacBook Air vs M3 14-inch MacBook Pro -- Comparison... 
> https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/03/13/m3-15-inch-macbook-air-vs-m3-14-inch-macbook-procomparison
> 
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> -- 
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Re: M3 15-inch MacBook Air vs M3 14-inch MacBook Pro -- Comparison

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Dave,

I’m not a hardware expert by a long shot, but the MBPs have generally been more 
powerful.  Also, and I don’t see well enough to confirm this personally, I 
think they have better displays.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Mar 15, 2024, at 8:07 AM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> Brad,
> 
> Then why on earth did Apple decide that there was something distinctive about 
> an Air vs. Pro? Simply size and weight? Color choices? Is this a parallel to 
> the iPhone and - Pro vs. SE?
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Farfar, Oregonian, Engineer, Woodworker, Musician
> dgcarlson0...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 14, 2024, at 11:00 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> Never was.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 14, 2024, at 23:53, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> Brad,
> Thanks for this. Saw it after my question post Air vs. Pro. But still I 
> wonder the use case. I used to think that the Air was designed to pull 
> everything it needed to run (programs/apps) from the Internet, so not needing 
> to store anything large on the machine except for data and personalizations. 
> Is that no longer the push?
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Oregonian, Woodworker, Farfar, Engineer, Musician
> dgcarlson0...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 14, 2024, at 5:51 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> M3 15-inch MacBook Air vs M3 14-inch MacBook Pro -- Comparison... 
> https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/03/13/m3-15-inch-macbook-air-vs-m3-14-inch-macbook-procomparison
> 
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> -- 
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>  
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&

Re: M3 15-inch MacBook Air vs M3 14-inch MacBook Pro -- Comparison

[Brad Snyder]

The original MacBook Air at 11.6”, and 13.3”, was thinner and lighter than its 
MacBook Pro cousin.
The original Air also had a less powerful processor..

- Brad -



On Mar 15, 2024, at 08:07, Dave Carlson  wrote:

Brad,

Then why on earth did Apple decide that there was something distinctive about 
an Air vs. Pro? Simply size and weight? Color choices? Is this a parallel to 
the iPhone and - Pro vs. SE?

Dave Carlson
Farfar, Oregonian, Engineer, Woodworker, Musician
dgcarlson0...@gmail.com




On Mar 14, 2024, at 11:00 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:

Never was.

- Brad -



On Mar 14, 2024, at 23:53, Dave Carlson  wrote:

Brad,
Thanks for this. Saw it after my question post Air vs. Pro. But still I wonder 
the use case. I used to think that the Air was designed to pull everything it 
needed to run (programs/apps) from the Internet, so not needing to store 
anything large on the machine except for data and personalizations. Is that no 
longer the push?

Dave Carlson
Oregonian, Woodworker, Farfar, Engineer, Musician
dgcarlson0...@gmail.com




On Mar 14, 2024, at 5:51 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:

M3 15-inch MacBook Air vs M3 14-inch MacBook Pro -- Comparison... 
https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/03/13/m3-15-inch-macbook-air-vs-m3-14-inch-macbook-procomparison


- Brad -

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Re: M3 15-inch MacBook Air vs M3 14-inch MacBook Pro -- Comparison

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Yeah, I thought about that.  And if I do get an Air, it will definitely be the 
13-inch.  But still, that pricing on the MBP is kinda tempting.  OK, in 
addition to my preference for things small and light, I’m also kind of a speed 
freak.  Those two factors sometimes make for an incongruous combination. :)
Cheers,
Donna

> On Mar 15, 2024, at 8:18 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> Keep in mind, that the Apple Insider article was comparing a 15” MacBook Air, 
> to the 14” M3 MacBook Pro.
> The 13” MacBook Air would be lighter and smaller, and can be configured the 
> same as the 15” used for comparison in the article.  :) 
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 15, 2024, at 07:50, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Dave,
> 
> I can only answer for myself, but here you go.  In 2017, I bought my one and 
> only MacBook Pro.  All my other Macs, including my current 2023 M1 have been 
> MacBook Airs.
> 
> Brad makes a strong case that for an extra $100, the MBP is the better 
> machine.  But I’ve always liked the smaller form factor and the lighter 
> weight of the MBA.  When I taught face-to-face, I had to carry my computer 
> with me around campus.  I also like to take it when I travel, so the smaller 
> and lighter, the better.  The MBA has always met my computing needs, but I’m 
> not an artist, graphic designer, etc.  I liked my MBP a lot, but I also 
> thought it was probably overkill for my use case.  So, in 2020, when the M1 
> chips came out, I went back to a MacBook Air.  That said, From the specs Brad 
>  sent last night, the difference in weight between the two seems pretty 
> negligible.  I was thinking I might upgrade to the M3 Air, but now I’m not 
> sure, either whether I will upgrade, or, if I do, which machine I’ll get.  My 
> current leaning is to just hold off and see what next year brings.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Mar 14, 2024, at 11:53 PM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
>> 
>> Brad,
>> Thanks for this. Saw it after my question post Air vs. Pro. But still I 
>> wonder the use case. I used to think that the Air was designed to pull 
>> everything it needed to run (programs/apps) from the Internet, so not 
>> needing to store anything large on the machine except for data and 
>> personalizations. Is that no longer the push?
>> 
>> Dave Carlson
>> Oregonian, Woodworker, Farfar, Engineer, Musician
>> dgcarlson0...@gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mar 14, 2024, at 5:51 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
>> 
>> M3 15-inch MacBook Air vs M3 14-inch MacBook Pro -- Comparison... 
>> https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/03/13/m3-15-inch-macbook-air-vs-m3-14-inch-macbook-procomparison
>> 
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>  
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>  
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
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>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>  
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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>> 
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Re: M3 15-inch MacBook Air vs M3 14-inch MacBook Pro -- Comparison

[Brad Snyder]

Keep in mind, that the Apple Insider article was comparing a 15” MacBook Air, 
to the 14” M3 MacBook Pro.
The 13” MacBook Air would be lighter and smaller, and can be configured the 
same as the 15” used for comparison in the article.  :) 

- Brad -



On Mar 15, 2024, at 07:50, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi Dave,

I can only answer for myself, but here you go.  In 2017, I bought my one and 
only MacBook Pro.  All my other Macs, including my current 2023 M1 have been 
MacBook Airs.

Brad makes a strong case that for an extra $100, the MBP is the better machine. 
 But I’ve always liked the smaller form factor and the lighter weight of the 
MBA.  When I taught face-to-face, I had to carry my computer with me around 
campus.  I also like to take it when I travel, so the smaller and lighter, the 
better.  The MBA has always met my computing needs, but I’m not an artist, 
graphic designer, etc.  I liked my MBP a lot, but I also thought it was 
probably overkill for my use case.  So, in 2020, when the M1 chips came out, I 
went back to a MacBook Air.  That said, From the specs Brad  sent last night, 
the difference in weight between the two seems pretty negligible.  I was 
thinking I might upgrade to the M3 Air, but now I’m not sure, either whether I 
will upgrade, or, if I do, which machine I’ll get.  My current leaning is to 
just hold off and see what next year brings.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Mar 14, 2024, at 11:53 PM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> Brad,
> Thanks for this. Saw it after my question post Air vs. Pro. But still I 
> wonder the use case. I used to think that the Air was designed to pull 
> everything it needed to run (programs/apps) from the Internet, so not needing 
> to store anything large on the machine except for data and personalizations. 
> Is that no longer the push?
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Oregonian, Woodworker, Farfar, Engineer, Musician
> dgcarlson0...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 14, 2024, at 5:51 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> M3 15-inch MacBook Air vs M3 14-inch MacBook Pro -- Comparison... 
> https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/03/13/m3-15-inch-macbook-air-vs-m3-14-inch-macbook-procomparison
> 
> 
> - Brad -
> 
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Re: M3 15-inch MacBook Air vs M3 14-inch MacBook Pro -- Comparison

[Dave Carlson]

Brad,

Then why on earth did Apple decide that there was something distinctive about 
an Air vs. Pro? Simply size and weight? Color choices? Is this a parallel to 
the iPhone and - Pro vs. SE?

Dave Carlson
Farfar, Oregonian, Engineer, Woodworker, Musician
dgcarlson0...@gmail.com




On Mar 14, 2024, at 11:00 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:

Never was.

- Brad -



On Mar 14, 2024, at 23:53, Dave Carlson  wrote:

Brad,
Thanks for this. Saw it after my question post Air vs. Pro. But still I wonder 
the use case. I used to think that the Air was designed to pull everything it 
needed to run (programs/apps) from the Internet, so not needing to store 
anything large on the machine except for data and personalizations. Is that no 
longer the push?

Dave Carlson
Oregonian, Woodworker, Farfar, Engineer, Musician
dgcarlson0...@gmail.com




On Mar 14, 2024, at 5:51 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:

M3 15-inch MacBook Air vs M3 14-inch MacBook Pro -- Comparison... 
https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/03/13/m3-15-inch-macbook-air-vs-m3-14-inch-macbook-procomparison


- Brad -

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Re: M3 15-inch MacBook Air vs M3 14-inch MacBook Pro -- Comparison

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Dave,

I can only answer for myself, but here you go.  In 2017, I bought my one and 
only MacBook Pro.  All my other Macs, including my current 2023 M1 have been 
MacBook Airs.

Brad makes a strong case that for an extra $100, the MBP is the better machine. 
 But I’ve always liked the smaller form factor and the lighter weight of the 
MBA.  When I taught face-to-face, I had to carry my computer with me around 
campus.  I also like to take it when I travel, so the smaller and lighter, the 
better.  The MBA has always met my computing needs, but I’m not an artist, 
graphic designer, etc.  I liked my MBP a lot, but I also thought it was 
probably overkill for my use case.  So, in 2020, when the M1 chips came out, I 
went back to a MacBook Air.  That said, From the specs Brad  sent last night, 
the difference in weight between the two seems pretty negligible.  I was 
thinking I might upgrade to the M3 Air, but now I’m not sure, either whether I 
will upgrade, or, if I do, which machine I’ll get.  My current leaning is to 
just hold off and see what next year brings.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Mar 14, 2024, at 11:53 PM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> Brad,
> Thanks for this. Saw it after my question post Air vs. Pro. But still I 
> wonder the use case. I used to think that the Air was designed to pull 
> everything it needed to run (programs/apps) from the Internet, so not needing 
> to store anything large on the machine except for data and personalizations. 
> Is that no longer the push?
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Oregonian, Woodworker, Farfar, Engineer, Musician
> dgcarlson0...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 14, 2024, at 5:51 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> M3 15-inch MacBook Air vs M3 14-inch MacBook Pro -- Comparison... 
> https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/03/13/m3-15-inch-macbook-air-vs-m3-14-inch-macbook-procomparison
> 
> 
> - Brad -
> 
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Re: M3 15-inch MacBook Air vs M3 14-inch MacBook Pro -- Comparison

[Brad Snyder]

Never was.

- Brad -



On Mar 14, 2024, at 23:53, Dave Carlson  wrote:

Brad,
Thanks for this. Saw it after my question post Air vs. Pro. But still I wonder 
the use case. I used to think that the Air was designed to pull everything it 
needed to run (programs/apps) from the Internet, so not needing to store 
anything large on the machine except for data and personalizations. Is that no 
longer the push?

Dave Carlson
Oregonian, Woodworker, Farfar, Engineer, Musician
dgcarlson0...@gmail.com




On Mar 14, 2024, at 5:51 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:

M3 15-inch MacBook Air vs M3 14-inch MacBook Pro -- Comparison... 
https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/03/13/m3-15-inch-macbook-air-vs-m3-14-inch-macbook-procomparison


- Brad -

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Re: M3 15-inch MacBook Air vs M3 14-inch MacBook Pro -- Comparison

[Dave Carlson]

Brad,
Thanks for this. Saw it after my question post Air vs. Pro. But still I wonder 
the use case. I used to think that the Air was designed to pull everything it 
needed to run (programs/apps) from the Internet, so not needing to store 
anything large on the machine except for data and personalizations. Is that no 
longer the push?

Dave Carlson
Oregonian, Woodworker, Farfar, Engineer, Musician
dgcarlson0...@gmail.com




On Mar 14, 2024, at 5:51 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:

M3 15-inch MacBook Air vs M3 14-inch MacBook Pro -- Comparison... 
https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/03/13/m3-15-inch-macbook-air-vs-m3-14-inch-macbook-procomparison


- Brad -

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M3 15-inch MacBook Air vs M3 14-inch MacBook Pro -- Comparison

[Brad Snyder]

M3 15-inch MacBook Air vs M3 14-inch MacBook Pro -- Comparison...
https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/03/13/m3-15-inch-macbook-air-vs-m3-14-inch-macbook-procomparison


- Brad -

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Re: New Sonoma user has questions I’ve been using Catalina on a MacBook Air and my iOS device with iOS 17 for the longest time. Now I have a new MacBook Pro with Sonoma and I love the thing except for

[Suzanne Erb]

Hello,
The only way I have been able to get rid of things like disk not ejecting 
properly is holding down the Fn, VO, and hitting the o key. Then I get a menu 
with choices, including the close button.
That generally seems to work.
Happy notice squelching,
Suzanne

> On Dec 5, 2023, at 00:20, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> Yes, but it seems that you cannot disable the most annoying system generated 
> notifications like a disk that was not ejected properly.
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Woodworker, Musician, Oregonian, Engineer,  Farfar
> dgcarlson0...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> On Dec 4, 2023, at 5:58 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> You can go to the notification center to disable the one s you don’t want. 
> You can also access the center with Function N and VO Command Space to bring 
> up the Actions roter. You can dismiss them from there.
> 
>> On Dec 4, 2023, at 14:57, Phil Halton  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my IPhone
>> 
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Re: New Sonoma user has questions I’ve been using Catalina on a MacBook Air and my iOS device with iOS 17 for the longest time. Now I have a new MacBook Pro with Sonoma and I love the thing except for

[Herbie Allen]

You can go to the notification center to disable the one s you don’t want. You 
can also access the center with Function N and VO Command Space to bring up the 
Actions roter. You can dismiss them from there.

> On Dec 4, 2023, at 14:57, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> 
> Sent from my IPhone
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New Sonoma user has questions I’ve been using Catalina on a MacBook Air and my iOS device with iOS 17 for the longest time. Now I have a new MacBook Pro with Sonoma and I love the thing except for the

[Phil Halton]

Sent from my IPhone

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Re: A question about accessibility of Microsoft teams on an M2 MacBook Pro, 2022

[Jonathan Cohn]

There are two versions of Teams, so it gets a little confusing. 
The business version integrates into One Drive and has good accessibility 
features including AI based auto transcriptions.
Teams on Windows is making a transition from an Electron App to a WebView2 app. 
I have no idea how this matches up with the Mac version.

Some basic keystrokes (assuming that command replaces control on the Macintosh 
versions.)
1. command-shift-J join meeting that you received an announcement about.
2. command-shift-M mute/unmute 
3. command+shift+O toggle video 
command+shift+K raise hand 
command+shift+L list people with raised hands 
command+shift+f  move to list of conversations or teams or feed events.
command+/ Enter search field 
command+? list all short cut keys 
command+shift+h hangup 
HTH 

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Oct 23, 2023, at 9:30 AM, Maurice A. Mines  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone, a meeting that I’ve been attending for a very long time. The 
> host has decided that she wants to go in a different direction. She wants to 
> use Microsoft teams is this even usable with voiceover? I am wanting to make 
> certain that it is and if it’s not, how do I address it? Definitely looking 
> for some suggestions and potential answers. I’m doing this for before I have 
> the problem. I have the balance of the week this out.? Please feel free if 
> this is not white chain to the left to write me at the email address that is 
> listed in my signature.  Thanks for reading this, and have an excellent day. 
> Please note that this is being dictated to the phone so somethings might not 
> come out the way they should. 
> Sent from my iPhone. 
> Email, Nfb, presidentdeafbl...@maurice-amines.com email personal 
> min...@me.com. Voice,  text number 661-868-9647.
> Fax number  661-449-3746.
> 
> 
> President, National Federation of the blind DeafBlind division. IP relay 
> number 661-249-9715.
> Vice President national Federation of the blind of California Bakersfield 
> chapter.
> amateur radio, call sign, kd0iko.
> 
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Re: A question about accessibility of Microsoft teams on an M2 MacBook Pro, 2022

['jason' via MacVisionaries]

Try these resources:https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/keyboard-shortcuts-for-microsoft-teams-2e8e2a70-e8d8-4a19-949b-4c36dd5292d2https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/basic-tasks-using-a-screen-reader-with-microsoft-teams-538a8741-f21b-4b04-b575-9df70ed4105dNote that version 2 of Microsoft Teams was just released. I have it installed, but I haven’t used it yet, as I’m not currently collaborating with people who use Microsoft Teams. From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  on behalf of Julie Rattray Date: Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 05:27To: 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries Subject: Re: A question about accessibility of Microsoft teams on an M2 MacBook Pro, 2022Hi, It is accessible but I find it fairly clunky if I am honest I find using Teams on the iPad more intuitive but the MacBook versions will work but you need to spend some time playing with the screens etc and practice navigating. I think a while ago someone posted a link to a help doc from Microsoft but not sure where that is now   On 23 Oct 2023, at 14:30, Maurice A. Mines  wrote: Hello everyone, a meeting that I’ve been attending for a very long time. The host has decided that she wants to go in a different direction. She wants to use Microsoft teams is this even usable with voiceover? I am wanting to make certain that it is and if it’s not, how do I address it? Definitely looking for some suggestions and potential answers. I’m doing this for before I have the problem. I have the balance of the week this out.? Please feel free if this is not white chain to the left to write me at the email address that is listed in my signature.  Thanks for reading this, and have an excellent day. Please note that this is being dictated to the phone so somethings might not come out the way they should. Sent from my iPhone. Email, Nfb, presidentdeafbl...@maurice-amines.com email personal min...@me.com. Voice,  text number 661-868-9647.Fax number  661-449-3746.President, National Federation of the blind DeafBlind division. IP relay number 661-249-9715.Vice President national Federation of the blind of California Bakersfield chapter.amateur radio, call sign, kd0iko. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at:http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/006405D2-75F1-4B9C-8BC6-4BEF46E7B63A%40gmail.com. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at:http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" groupTo unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/BB28EDED-1B32-468F-A729-1C778D21F798%40gmail.com.



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Re: A question about accessibility of Microsoft teams on an M2 MacBook Pro, 2022

[Julie Rattray]

Hi,

It is accessible but I find it fairly clunky if I am honest I find using Teams 
on the iPad more intuitive but the MacBook versions will work but you need to 
spend some time playing with the screens etc and practice navigating. I think a 
while ago someone posted a link to a help doc from Microsoft but not sure where 
that is now   

> On 23 Oct 2023, at 14:30, Maurice A. Mines  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone, a meeting that I’ve been attending for a very long time. The 
> host has decided that she wants to go in a different direction. She wants to 
> use Microsoft teams is this even usable with voiceover? I am wanting to make 
> certain that it is and if it’s not, how do I address it? Definitely looking 
> for some suggestions and potential answers. I’m doing this for before I have 
> the problem. I have the balance of the week this out.? Please feel free if 
> this is not white chain to the left to write me at the email address that is 
> listed in my signature.  Thanks for reading this, and have an excellent day. 
> Please note that this is being dictated to the phone so somethings might not 
> come out the way they should. 
> Sent from my iPhone. 
> Email, Nfb, presidentdeafbl...@maurice-amines.com email personal 
> min...@me.com. Voice,  text number 661-868-9647.
> Fax number  661-449-3746.
> 
> 
> President, National Federation of the blind DeafBlind division. IP relay 
> number 661-249-9715.
> Vice President national Federation of the blind of California Bakersfield 
> chapter.
> amateur radio, call sign, kd0iko.
> 
> -- 
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> list.
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A question about accessibility of Microsoft teams on an M2 MacBook Pro, 2022

[Maurice A. Mines]

Hello everyone, a meeting that I’ve been attending for a very long time. The 
host has decided that she wants to go in a different direction. She wants to 
use Microsoft teams is this even usable with voiceover? I am wanting to make 
certain that it is and if it’s not, how do I address it? Definitely looking for 
some suggestions and potential answers. I’m doing this for before I have the 
problem. I have the balance of the week this out.? Please feel free if this is 
not white chain to the left to write me at the email address that is listed in 
my signature.  Thanks for reading this, and have an excellent day. Please note 
that this is being dictated to the phone so somethings might not come out the 
way they should. 
Sent from my iPhone. 
Email, Nfb, presidentdeafbl...@maurice-amines.com email personal min...@me.com. 
Voice,  text number 661-868-9647.
Fax number  661-449-3746.


President, National Federation of the blind DeafBlind division. IP relay number 
661-249-9715.
Vice President national Federation of the blind of California Bakersfield 
chapter.
amateur radio, call sign, kd0iko.

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RE: Transplanting Macbook Pro to Austrailia

[meikle.aiden via MacVisionaries]

Thanks for that Jason.  I’d have never known.

 

Andy.

 

From: 'Jason J.G. White' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Wednesday, June 7, 2023 11:38 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Transplanting Macbook Pro to Austrailia

 

You need to perform a reset of the device after signing out of iCloud.

 

From: meikle.aiden via MacVisionaries mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >
Date: Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 04:01
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >
Subject: Transplanting Macbook Pro to Austrailia

Hi all.

 

Perhaps a silly question, but am I able to give my Mackbook Pro to my Nephew, 
who lives in Sidney , My 2020 Mackbook to keep?

 

I bought this computer new for £3000 in 2020  in Scotland and could not learn 
the operating system.  It’s perfect and hardly even been turned on.

 

I could give him my email address and my Apple password, which he can change, 
but is there anything more he would need to use this computer, apart from a 
power adaptor?

 

Thanks.

 

Andy Logue

 

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<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/009901d99916%2442d31400%24c8793c00%24%40btinternet.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
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<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/MN2PR20MB33836F4EC174BF3CC8B2801ECF53A%40MN2PR20MB3383.namprd20.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
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Re: Transplanting Macbook Pro to Austrailia

['Jason J.G. White' via MacVisionaries]

You need to perform a reset of the device after signing out of iCloud.

From: meikle.aiden via MacVisionaries 
Date: Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 04:01
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Transplanting Macbook Pro to Austrailia
Hi all.

Perhaps a silly question, but am I able to give my Mackbook Pro to my Nephew, 
who lives in Sidney , My 2020 Mackbook to keep?

I bought this computer new for £3000 in 2020  in Scotland and could not learn 
the operating system.  It’s perfect and hardly even been turned on.

I could give him my email address and my Apple password, which he can change, 
but is there anything more he would need to use this computer, apart from a 
power adaptor?

Thanks.

Andy Logue

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Transplanting Macbook Pro to Austrailia

[meikle.aiden via MacVisionaries]

Hi all.

 

Perhaps a silly question, but am I able to give my Mackbook Pro to my
Nephew, who lives in Sidney , My 2020 Mackbook to keep?

 

I bought this computer new for £3000 in 2020  in Scotland and could not
learn the operating system.  It’s perfect and hardly even been turned on.

 

I could give him my email address and my Apple password, which he can
change, but is there anything more he would need to use this computer, apart
from a power adaptor?

 

Thanks.

 

Andy Logue

 

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Re: Question about Voiceover issue when starting my Macbook Pro

[Bob Hill]

That's exactly what I needed to do. 
Thanks for the info. 
Time to reread the list of commands and shortcuts. 
Help is much appreciated. 

Bob 


Sent from Bob's iPhone

> On Apr 3, 2023, at 8:42 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> Tripple Tap yor track pad with three fingers.
> 
>> On Apr 3, 2023, at 19:20, Robert Hill  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> Having a brain cramp on an issue starting my MacBook Pro with VoiceOver.
>> Somehow my settings got changed so when I start my computer I hear VoiceOver 
>> on, then "speech off".
>> What keystrokes do I use to get speech turned back on?
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Bob Hill
>> 
>> -- 
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Re: Question about Voiceover issue when starting my Macbook Pro

['Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

Voiceover is probably muted so double-tap with three fingers on the trackpad to 
unmute it.

Andrew

> On 4 Apr 2023, at 01:42, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Having a brain cramp on an issue starting my MacBook Pro with VoiceOver.
> Somehow my settings got changed so when I start my computer I hear VoiceOver 
> on, then "speech off".
> What keystrokes do I use to get speech turned back on?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Bob Hill
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
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> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
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> 
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Re: Question about Voiceover issue when starting my Macbook Pro

[Herbie Allen]

Tripple Tap yor track pad with three fingers.

> On Apr 3, 2023, at 19:20, Robert Hill  wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Having a brain cramp on an issue starting my MacBook Pro with VoiceOver.
> Somehow my settings got changed so when I start my computer I hear VoiceOver 
> on, then "speech off".
> What keystrokes do I use to get speech turned back on?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Bob Hill
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Question about Voiceover issue when starting my Macbook Pro

[Robert Hill]

Hi everyone,

Having a brain cramp on an issue starting my MacBook Pro with VoiceOver.
Somehow my settings got changed so when I start my computer I hear VoiceOver 
on, then "speech off".
What keystrokes do I use to get speech turned back on?

Thanks.

Bob Hill

-- 
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list.

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feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

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Re: How does one compensate for PageUp and PageDown keys or Home and End keys on a MacBook Pro without an external full keyboard?

[Raymond Foret Jr]

Such is the case for me also:  by which I mean command+optionplusup or down to 
move to top and bottom respectively.  

Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray
Still a very proud Mac, Xfinity Mobile and Apple TV user

> On Jan 8, 2023, at 4:44 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Not to perpetuate the earlier discussion, but for me, moving from top to 
> bottom of the mailbox list is accomplished by pressing CMD-Option plus up or 
> down arrow to move to the top or bottom respectively.  Just mentioning this 
> in case that turns out to be the case for Kevin as well.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 4:36 PM, Bradford Snyder > <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Kevin,
>> 
>> When in the Mail app on your Mac, you can easily move to the top or bottom 
>> of the mailbox list by pressing the Option key, then use the Up Arrow to 
>> move to the first item in the mailbox list, or press the down Arrow to move 
>> to the last item in the mailbox list.
>> You can move between individual items in the list by simply pressing the 
>> up/down arrow keys. 
>> If you choose to interact with the mailbox list, you will find that 
>> navigation is different, and you will need to use the VO modifier, along 
>> with arrow keys.
>> 
>> HTH.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 13:47, Kevin Gibbs > <mailto:kevj...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Guys,
>> 
>> I’ll jump back in here.  I tried the stuff we’re talking about and here is 
>> what happens for me.  
>> 
>> First, keep in mind that I am a low vision person who can observe certain 
>> outcomes on screen.  
>> 
>> 2.  This all started in my Google mailbox within Apple Mail on an M1 MacBook 
>> Pro running Monterey.  When I press and hold the function key and then press 
>> right arrow, I do see a change on screen.  The change is that the previously 
>> selected e-mail in the inbox is no longer selected.  I’m not exactly clear 
>> what happens.  Further, nothing is spoken.  
>> 
>> 3.  If I hold down the FN key and the VO key, (CAPS LOCK in my case,) 
>> pressing right arrow appears to move me to the top most e-mail in the 
>> mailbox.  A subsequent press of FN VO left arrow appears to bring me to the 
>> bottom most or most recent e-mail in the mailbox.  In each of these last two 
>> cases, the e-mail is spoken when it becomes the selected e-mail.  So, it 
>> appears that I need to hold fn and VO and press the left or right arrow to 
>> get two the bottom or top.  Curiously, up and down arrows don’t appear to do 
>> anything in this specific mailbox case.  I haven’t tried any of this within 
>> a document or anywhere else.  The whole deal was how to move around quickly 
>> in mailboxes without disturbing the unread status of intervening messages.  
>> 
>> I’ll say that my query has been satisfactorily addressed for now.  
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks for everything,
>> Kevinb
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 12:15 PM, Brad Snyder >> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Donna and all,
>>> 
>>> What you are experiencing has to do with the behavior of VoiceOver 
>>> navigation within a specific application, such as Mail, TextEdit, or  other 
>>> native Mac applications.
>>> This is a separate issue from modifying the behavior of the arrow keys 
>>> while holding down only the Fn key.
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 11:53, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks, Michael and Dave.  Very glad that you can reproduce what I’m 
>>> seeing. Dave, I’ve used the Mac long enough that I don’t go into keyboard 
>>> help all that often. What you said about the longer explanation is 
>>> interesting, I hadn’t stuck around in Help long enough to hear all that.  I 
>>> think I just figured out the VO thing by experimenting until I found the 
>>> key combination that worked.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 11:40 AM, Dave Carlson >>> <mailto:dgcarlson0...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I’ve noticed a subtle difference when experimenting in the VO keyboard 
>>>> help mode.
>>>> 
>>>> With just Fn and the left/right the announcement is Home and end, as 
>>>> reported.
>>>> 
>>>> Howev

Re: How does one compensate for PageUp and PageDown keys or Home and End keys on a MacBook Pro without an external full keyboard?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Not to perpetuate the earlier discussion, but for me, moving from top to bottom 
of the mailbox list is accomplished by pressing CMD-Option plus up or down 
arrow to move to the top or bottom respectively.  Just mentioning this in case 
that turns out to be the case for Kevin as well.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Jan 8, 2023, at 4:36 PM, Bradford Snyder  wrote:
> 
> Hi Kevin,
> 
> When in the Mail app on your Mac, you can easily move to the top or bottom of 
> the mailbox list by pressing the Option key, then use the Up Arrow to move to 
> the first item in the mailbox list, or press the down Arrow to move to the 
> last item in the mailbox list.
> You can move between individual items in the list by simply pressing the 
> up/down arrow keys. 
> If you choose to interact with the mailbox list, you will find that 
> navigation is different, and you will need to use the VO modifier, along with 
> arrow keys.
> 
> HTH.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 8, 2023, at 13:47, Kevin Gibbs  wrote:
> 
> Guys,
> 
> I’ll jump back in here.  I tried the stuff we’re talking about and here is 
> what happens for me.  
> 
> First, keep in mind that I am a low vision person who can observe certain 
> outcomes on screen.  
> 
> 2.  This all started in my Google mailbox within Apple Mail on an M1 MacBook 
> Pro running Monterey.  When I press and hold the function key and then press 
> right arrow, I do see a change on screen.  The change is that the previously 
> selected e-mail in the inbox is no longer selected.  I’m not exactly clear 
> what happens.  Further, nothing is spoken.  
> 
> 3.  If I hold down the FN key and the VO key, (CAPS LOCK in my case,) 
> pressing right arrow appears to move me to the top most e-mail in the 
> mailbox.  A subsequent press of FN VO left arrow appears to bring me to the 
> bottom most or most recent e-mail in the mailbox.  In each of these last two 
> cases, the e-mail is spoken when it becomes the selected e-mail.  So, it 
> appears that I need to hold fn and VO and press the left or right arrow to 
> get two the bottom or top.  Curiously, up and down arrows don’t appear to do 
> anything in this specific mailbox case.  I haven’t tried any of this within a 
> document or anywhere else.  The whole deal was how to move around quickly in 
> mailboxes without disturbing the unread status of intervening messages.  
> 
> I’ll say that my query has been satisfactorily addressed for now.  
> 
> 
> Thanks for everything,
> Kevinb
> 
> 
>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 12:15 PM, Brad Snyder > <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Donna and all,
>> 
>> What you are experiencing has to do with the behavior of VoiceOver 
>> navigation within a specific application, such as Mail, TextEdit, or  other 
>> native Mac applications.
>> This is a separate issue from modifying the behavior of the arrow keys while 
>> holding down only the Fn key.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 11:53, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks, Michael and Dave.  Very glad that you can reproduce what I’m 
>> seeing. Dave, I’ve used the Mac long enough that I don’t go into keyboard 
>> help all that often. What you said about the longer explanation is 
>> interesting, I hadn’t stuck around in Help long enough to hear all that.  I 
>> think I just figured out the VO thing by experimenting until I found the key 
>> combination that worked.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 11:40 AM, Dave Carlson >> <mailto:dgcarlson0...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I’ve noticed a subtle difference when experimenting in the VO keyboard help 
>>> mode.
>>> 
>>> With just Fn and the left/right the announcement is Home and end, as 
>>> reported.
>>> 
>>> However when holding Fn plus VO and pressing left arrow, a moment after 
>>> saying home it will also announce “Go to beginning, moves the cursor to the 
>>> beginning” and similar additional information for the right arrow.
>>> 
>>> I think there is a difference in behavior for these two scenarios that may 
>>> indeed affect how it works inside documents, etc.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dave Carlson
>>> Farfar, Oregonian, Engineer, Woodworker, Musician
>>> dgcarlson0...@gmail.com <mailto:dgcarlson0...@gmail.com>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:29 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>

Re: How does one compensate for PageUp and PageDown keys or Home and End keys on a MacBook Pro without an external full keyboard?

[Bradford Snyder]

Hi Kevin,

When in the Mail app on your Mac, you can easily move to the top or bottom of 
the mailbox list by pressing the Option key, then use the Up Arrow to move to 
the first item in the mailbox list, or press the down Arrow to move to the last 
item in the mailbox list.
You can move between individual items in the list by simply pressing the 
up/down arrow keys. 
If you choose to interact with the mailbox list, you will find that navigation 
is different, and you will need to use the VO modifier, along with arrow keys.

HTH.

- Brad -



On Jan 8, 2023, at 13:47, Kevin Gibbs  wrote:

Guys,

I’ll jump back in here.  I tried the stuff we’re talking about and here is what 
happens for me.  

First, keep in mind that I am a low vision person who can observe certain 
outcomes on screen.  

2.  This all started in my Google mailbox within Apple Mail on an M1 MacBook 
Pro running Monterey.  When I press and hold the function key and then press 
right arrow, I do see a change on screen.  The change is that the previously 
selected e-mail in the inbox is no longer selected.  I’m not exactly clear what 
happens.  Further, nothing is spoken.  

3.  If I hold down the FN key and the VO key, (CAPS LOCK in my case,) pressing 
right arrow appears to move me to the top most e-mail in the mailbox.  A 
subsequent press of FN VO left arrow appears to bring me to the bottom most or 
most recent e-mail in the mailbox.  In each of these last two cases, the e-mail 
is spoken when it becomes the selected e-mail.  So, it appears that I need to 
hold fn and VO and press the left or right arrow to get two the bottom or top.  
Curiously, up and down arrows don’t appear to do anything in this specific 
mailbox case.  I haven’t tried any of this within a document or anywhere else.  
The whole deal was how to move around quickly in mailboxes without disturbing 
the unread status of intervening messages.  

I’ll say that my query has been satisfactorily addressed for now.  


Thanks for everything,
Kevinb


> On Jan 8, 2023, at 12:15 PM, Brad Snyder  <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
> 
> Hello Donna and all,
> 
> What you are experiencing has to do with the behavior of VoiceOver navigation 
> within a specific application, such as Mail, TextEdit, or  other native Mac 
> applications.
> This is a separate issue from modifying the behavior of the arrow keys while 
> holding down only the Fn key.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> On Jan 8, 2023, at 11:53, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Michael and Dave.  Very glad that you can reproduce what I’m seeing. 
> Dave, I’ve used the Mac long enough that I don’t go into keyboard help all 
> that often. What you said about the longer explanation is interesting, I 
> hadn’t stuck around in Help long enough to hear all that.  I think I just 
> figured out the VO thing by experimenting until I found the key combination 
> that worked.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> 
>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 11:40 AM, Dave Carlson > <mailto:dgcarlson0...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve noticed a subtle difference when experimenting in the VO keyboard help 
>> mode.
>> 
>> With just Fn and the left/right the announcement is Home and end, as 
>> reported.
>> 
>> However when holding Fn plus VO and pressing left arrow, a moment after 
>> saying home it will also announce “Go to beginning, moves the cursor to the 
>> beginning” and similar additional information for the right arrow.
>> 
>> I think there is a difference in behavior for these two scenarios that may 
>> indeed affect how it works inside documents, etc.
>> 
>> 
>> Dave Carlson
>> Farfar, Oregonian, Engineer, Woodworker, Musician
>> dgcarlson0...@gmail.com <mailto:dgcarlson0...@gmail.com>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:29 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Michael,
>> 
>> So if I go into keyboard help and press those keys—exactly as you 
>> describe—VO does say Home, End etc.  But if I press FN plus an arrow key 
>> without the VO modifier while in a document, webpage etc,nothing happens.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 11:23 AM, Michael Babcock >> <mailto:michael@payown.media>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Donna!
>>> 
>>> To verify, when you press and hold FN, while pressing left or right in 
>>> keyboard help mode with VO+K your saying your computer doesn’t say home or 
>>> end unless you press the VO keys as well?
>>> 
>>> That is strange, on this MacBook Air, I can do the followi

Re: How does one compensate for PageUp and PageDown keys or Home and End keys on a MacBook Pro without an external full keyboard?

['E.T.' via MacVisionaries]

   When one responds to perceived "negative/obnoxious" behavior with 
the same, no on wins, everybody loses. 'Nuff said.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible
will make violent revolution inevitable."
 --John F. Kennedy
My e-Mail:
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 1/8/2023 11:00 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:

With all due respect, it has to do with the list environment, and therefore 
belongs here.  It is not OK for one member to create an unpleasant list 
environment for others, by criticizing, denigrating, or invalidating others’ 
posts.  We all post things that are for whatever reason not accurate on 
occasion.  That’s inevitable when you have a group of people running several 
different operating systems, and different configurations of those operating 
systems.  In those situations correction is important. But it should be done in 
a way that is constructive, not rude or arrogant.
Donna


On Jan 8, 2023, at 12:33 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   Do us all a favor and take this off list where it belongs. Personality 
conflicts are off topic as they have nothing to do with Apple products.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible
will make violent revolution inevitable."
--John F. Kennedy
My e-Mail:
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 1/8/2023 9:07 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:

Brad,. I am really tired of the obnoxious behavior you display on this list.  
Either learn to be civil, or get off the list.
I can reproduce this behavior flawlessly, and without exception.  Just pressing 
the FN key does NOTHING! So, you can be rude all you want, but I’m going to 
post my experience as there is probably someone else out there who experiences 
the same thing, as I don’t that my Mac is an anomaly.  I don’t doubt that your 
Mac behaves as you describe, but mine, and undoubtedly others, do not.  So 
please don’t dismiss what I write out of hand.
Donna

On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:41 AM, Brad Snyder mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:

Hi Donna,
You can disagree all you want, but the VO key is not necessary to change the 
behavior of the arrow keys when using the Fn key.

- Brad -

On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:11, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
wrote:

Sorry, Brad, but I have to disagree.  When I just press the FN key nothing 
happens.  When I press the VO modifier, the keys behave as you describe.
Cheers,
Donna


On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:27 AM, Bradford Snyder mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:

Changing the behavior of the arrow keys is not a function of VoiceOver, 
therefore it is not necessary to use the VO modifier in order to use the 
alternate actions of the arrow keys as described in my original response.
You can test this by turning on Keyboard Help, then press the different arrow 
keys while holding down only the Fn key.
Whether or not the VO modifier is used along with the Fn key makes no matter.  
The actions of the arrow keys will be the same.

- Brad -



On Jan 8, 2023, at 08:55, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
wrote:

Just one addition to this, for me to use these commands, I also have to hold 
down the VO keys.  So, VO-FN-right arrow for home, etc.
Cheers,
Donna


On Jan 7, 2023, at 4:59 PM, Bradford Snyder mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:

If you hold down the Fn key, the arrow keys become the following:
Left Arrow becomes the Home key.
Right Arrow becomes the End key.
Up Arrow becomes the Page Up key.
Down Arrow becomes the Page Down key.

HTH.

- Brad -



On Jan 7, 2023, at 16:41, Kevin Gibbs mailto:kevj...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Sometimes, I don’t have my full extended keyboard and have to type on just my 
MacBook Pro keyboard.  But I don’t have Page Up/Down or Home and End keys.  How 
does one compensate for this?

Thanks,
Kevin

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Re: How does one compensate for PageUp and PageDown keys or Home and End keys on a MacBook Pro without an external full keyboard?

[Kevin Gibbs]

Guys,

I’ll jump back in here.  I tried the stuff we’re talking about and here is what 
happens for me.  

First, keep in mind that I am a low vision person who can observe certain 
outcomes on screen.  

2.  This all started in my Google mailbox within Apple Mail on an M1 MacBook 
Pro running Monterey.  When I press and hold the function key and then press 
right arrow, I do see a change on screen.  The change is that the previously 
selected e-mail in the inbox is no longer selected.  I’m not exactly clear what 
happens.  Further, nothing is spoken.  

3.  If I hold down the FN key and the VO key, (CAPS LOCK in my case,) pressing 
right arrow appears to move me to the top most e-mail in the mailbox.  A 
subsequent press of FN VO left arrow appears to bring me to the bottom most or 
most recent e-mail in the mailbox.  In each of these last two cases, the e-mail 
is spoken when it becomes the selected e-mail.  So, it appears that I need to 
hold fn and VO and press the left or right arrow to get two the bottom or top.  
Curiously, up and down arrows don’t appear to do anything in this specific 
mailbox case.  I haven’t tried any of this within a document or anywhere else.  
The whole deal was how to move around quickly in mailboxes without disturbing 
the unread status of intervening messages.  

I’ll say that my query has been satisfactorily addressed for now.  


Thanks for everything,
Kevinb


> On Jan 8, 2023, at 12:15 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> Hello Donna and all,
> 
> What you are experiencing has to do with the behavior of VoiceOver navigation 
> within a specific application, such as Mail, TextEdit, or  other native Mac 
> applications.
> This is a separate issue from modifying the behavior of the arrow keys while 
> holding down only the Fn key.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> On Jan 8, 2023, at 11:53, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Michael and Dave.  Very glad that you can reproduce what I’m seeing. 
> Dave, I’ve used the Mac long enough that I don’t go into keyboard help all 
> that often. What you said about the longer explanation is interesting, I 
> hadn’t stuck around in Help long enough to hear all that.  I think I just 
> figured out the VO thing by experimenting until I found the key combination 
> that worked.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> 
>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 11:40 AM, Dave Carlson > <mailto:dgcarlson0...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve noticed a subtle difference when experimenting in the VO keyboard help 
>> mode.
>> 
>> With just Fn and the left/right the announcement is Home and end, as 
>> reported.
>> 
>> However when holding Fn plus VO and pressing left arrow, a moment after 
>> saying home it will also announce “Go to beginning, moves the cursor to the 
>> beginning” and similar additional information for the right arrow.
>> 
>> I think there is a difference in behavior for these two scenarios that may 
>> indeed affect how it works inside documents, etc.
>> 
>> 
>> Dave Carlson
>> Farfar, Oregonian, Engineer, Woodworker, Musician
>> dgcarlson0...@gmail.com <mailto:dgcarlson0...@gmail.com>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:29 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Michael,
>> 
>> So if I go into keyboard help and press those keys—exactly as you 
>> describe—VO does say Home, End etc.  But if I press FN plus an arrow key 
>> without the VO modifier while in a document, webpage etc,nothing happens.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 11:23 AM, Michael Babcock >> <mailto:michael@payown.media>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Donna!
>>> 
>>> To verify, when you press and hold FN, while pressing left or right in 
>>> keyboard help mode with VO+K your saying your computer doesn’t say home or 
>>> end unless you press the VO keys as well?
>>> 
>>> That is strange, on this MacBook Air, I can do the following steps:
>>> 
>>> 1. Press VO+K to enter keyboard help mode
>>> 2. Press and hold the FN key, bottom left key
>>> 3. While still pressing FN, press left or right and I hear Home or End 
>>> respectively.
>>> 
>>> Have a beautiful day.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:07 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Brad,. I am really tired of the obnoxious behavior you display on this 
>>>> list.  Either learn to be civil, or get off the list.
&

Re: How does one compensate for PageUp and PageDown keys or Home and End keys on a MacBook Pro without an external full keyboard?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

gt;> I’m going to post my experience as there is probably someone else out 
>>>>> there who experiences the same thing, as I don’t that my Mac is an 
>>>>> anomaly.  I don’t doubt that your Mac behaves as you describe, but mine, 
>>>>> and undoubtedly others, do not.  So please don’t dismiss what I write out 
>>>>> of hand.
>>>>> Donna
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:41 AM, Brad Snyder >>>>> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Donna,
>>>>>> You can disagree all you want, but the VO key is not necessary to change 
>>>>>> the behavior of the arrow keys when using the Fn key.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> - Brad -
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:11, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>> >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sorry, Brad, but I have to disagree.  When I just press the FN key 
>>>>>> nothing happens.  When I press the VO modifier, the keys behave as you 
>>>>>> describe.
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Donna
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:27 AM, Bradford Snyder >>>>>> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Changing the behavior of the arrow keys is not a function of VoiceOver, 
>>>>>>> therefore it is not necessary to use the VO modifier in order to use 
>>>>>>> the alternate actions of the arrow keys as described in my original 
>>>>>>> response.
>>>>>>> You can test this by turning on Keyboard Help, then press the different 
>>>>>>> arrow keys while holding down only the Fn key.
>>>>>>> Whether or not the VO modifier is used along with the Fn key makes no 
>>>>>>> matter.  The actions of the arrow keys will be the same.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - Brad -
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 08:55, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>>> >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Just one addition to this, for me to use these commands, I also have to 
>>>>>>> hold down the VO keys.  So, VO-FN-right arrow for home, etc.
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Donna
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Jan 7, 2023, at 4:59 PM, Bradford Snyder >>>>>>> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If you hold down the Fn key, the arrow keys become the following:
>>>>>>>> Left Arrow becomes the Home key.
>>>>>>>> Right Arrow becomes the End key.
>>>>>>>> Up Arrow becomes the Page Up key.
>>>>>>>> Down Arrow becomes the Page Down key.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> HTH.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> - Brad -
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Jan 7, 2023, at 16:41, Kevin Gibbs >>>>>>> <mailto:kevj...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sometimes, I don’t have my full extended keyboard and have to type on 
>>>>>>>> just my MacBook Pro keyboard.  But I don’t have Page Up/Down or Home 
>>>>>>>> and End keys.  How does one compensate for this?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Kevin
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>>>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>>>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
>>>>>>>> itself.
>&

Re: How does one compensate for PageUp and PageDown keys or Home and End keys on a MacBook Pro without an external full keyboard?

[Phil Halton]

Hi ET, true they are off topic, but a good pissing contest helps to brighten an 
otherwise dreary Sunday afternoon.  don’t you agree? 😁

Sent from my IPhone


> On Jan 8, 2023, at 2:00 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> With all due respect, it has to do with the list environment, and therefore 
> belongs here.  It is not OK for one member to create an unpleasant list 
> environment for others, by criticizing, denigrating, or invalidating others’ 
> posts.  We all post things that are for whatever reason not accurate on 
> occasion.  That’s inevitable when you have a group of people running several 
> different operating systems, and different configurations of those operating 
> systems.  In those situations correction is important. But it should be done 
> in a way that is constructive, not rude or arrogant.
> Donna
> 
>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 12:33 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>  Do us all a favor and take this off list where it belongs. Personality 
>> conflicts are off topic as they have nothing to do with Apple products.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible
>> will make violent revolution inevitable."
>> --John F. Kennedy
>> My e-Mail:
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 1/8/2023 9:07 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> Brad,. I am really tired of the obnoxious behavior you display on this 
>>> list.  Either learn to be civil, or get off the list.
>>> I can reproduce this behavior flawlessly, and without exception.  Just 
>>> pressing the FN key does NOTHING! So, you can be rude all you want, but I’m 
>>> going to post my experience as there is probably someone else out there who 
>>> experiences the same thing, as I don’t that my Mac is an anomaly.  I don’t 
>>> doubt that your Mac behaves as you describe, but mine, and undoubtedly 
>>> others, do not.  So please don’t dismiss what I write out of hand.
>>> Donna
>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:41 AM, Brad Snyder >>> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Donna,
>>>> You can disagree all you want, but the VO key is not necessary to change 
>>>> the behavior of the arrow keys when using the Fn key.
>>>> 
>>>> - Brad -
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:11, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Sorry, Brad, but I have to disagree.  When I just press the FN key 
>>>> nothing happens.  When I press the VO modifier, the keys behave as you 
>>>> describe.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Donna
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:27 AM, Bradford Snyder >>>> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Changing the behavior of the arrow keys is not a function of VoiceOver, 
>>>>> therefore it is not necessary to use the VO modifier in order to use the 
>>>>> alternate actions of the arrow keys as described in my original response.
>>>>> You can test this by turning on Keyboard Help, then press the different 
>>>>> arrow keys while holding down only the Fn key.
>>>>> Whether or not the VO modifier is used along with the Fn key makes no 
>>>>> matter.  The actions of the arrow keys will be the same.
>>>>> 
>>>>> - Brad -
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 08:55, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>> >>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just one addition to this, for me to use these commands, I also have to 
>>>>> hold down the VO keys.  So, VO-FN-right arrow for home, etc.
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Donna
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 7, 2023, at 4:59 PM, Bradford Snyder >>>>> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If you hold down the Fn key, the arrow keys become the following:
>>>>>> Left Arrow becomes the Home key.
>>>>>> Right Arrow becomes the End key.
>>>>>> Up Arrow becomes the Page Up key.
>>>>>> Down Arrow becomes the Page Down key.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> HTH.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> - Bra

Re: How does one compensate for PageUp and PageDown keys or Home and End keys on a MacBook Pro without an external full keyboard?

[Brad Snyder]

w becomes the Page Down key.HTH.
- Brad -


On Jan 7, 2023, at 16:41, Kevin Gibbs <kevj...@gmail.com> wrote:Sometimes, I don’t have my full extended keyboard and have to type on just my MacBook Pro keyboard.  But I don’t have Page Up/Down or Home and End keys.  How does one compensate for this?Thanks,Kevin-- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list.If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.comThe archives for this list can be searched at:http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/F72D326E-BD7A-40A7-A56E-2C79FA7A98B9%40gmail.com.

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Re: How does one compensate for PageUp and PageDown keys or Home and End keys on a MacBook Pro without an external full keyboard?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

With all due respect, it has to do with the list environment, and therefore 
belongs here.  It is not OK for one member to create an unpleasant list 
environment for others, by criticizing, denigrating, or invalidating others’ 
posts.  We all post things that are for whatever reason not accurate on 
occasion.  That’s inevitable when you have a group of people running several 
different operating systems, and different configurations of those operating 
systems.  In those situations correction is important. But it should be done in 
a way that is constructive, not rude or arrogant.
Donna

> On Jan 8, 2023, at 12:33 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   Do us all a favor and take this off list where it belongs. Personality 
> conflicts are off topic as they have nothing to do with Apple products.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible
> will make violent revolution inevitable."
> --John F. Kennedy
> My e-Mail:
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 1/8/2023 9:07 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> Brad,. I am really tired of the obnoxious behavior you display on this list. 
>>  Either learn to be civil, or get off the list.
>> I can reproduce this behavior flawlessly, and without exception.  Just 
>> pressing the FN key does NOTHING! So, you can be rude all you want, but I’m 
>> going to post my experience as there is probably someone else out there who 
>> experiences the same thing, as I don’t that my Mac is an anomaly.  I don’t 
>> doubt that your Mac behaves as you describe, but mine, and undoubtedly 
>> others, do not.  So please don’t dismiss what I write out of hand.
>> Donna
>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:41 AM, Brad Snyder >> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Donna,
>>> You can disagree all you want, but the VO key is not necessary to change 
>>> the behavior of the arrow keys when using the Fn key.
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:11, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Sorry, Brad, but I have to disagree.  When I just press the FN key nothing 
>>> happens.  When I press the VO modifier, the keys behave as you describe.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:27 AM, Bradford Snyder >>> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Changing the behavior of the arrow keys is not a function of VoiceOver, 
>>>> therefore it is not necessary to use the VO modifier in order to use the 
>>>> alternate actions of the arrow keys as described in my original response.
>>>> You can test this by turning on Keyboard Help, then press the different 
>>>> arrow keys while holding down only the Fn key.
>>>> Whether or not the VO modifier is used along with the Fn key makes no 
>>>> matter.  The actions of the arrow keys will be the same.
>>>> 
>>>> - Brad -
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 08:55, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Just one addition to this, for me to use these commands, I also have to 
>>>> hold down the VO keys.  So, VO-FN-right arrow for home, etc.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Donna
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 7, 2023, at 4:59 PM, Bradford Snyder >>>> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you hold down the Fn key, the arrow keys become the following:
>>>>> Left Arrow becomes the Home key.
>>>>> Right Arrow becomes the End key.
>>>>> Up Arrow becomes the Page Up key.
>>>>> Down Arrow becomes the Page Down key.
>>>>> 
>>>>> HTH.
>>>>> 
>>>>> - Brad -
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 7, 2023, at 16:41, Kevin Gibbs >>>> <mailto:kevj...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sometimes, I don’t have my full extended keyboard and have to type on 
>>>>> just my MacBook Pro keyboard.  But I don’t have Page Up/Down or Home and 
>>>>> End keys.  How does one compensate for this?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Kevin
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> The f

Re: How does one compensate for PageUp and PageDown keys or Home and End keys on a MacBook Pro without an external full keyboard?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

t; 
>>>>> Sorry, Brad, but I have to disagree.  When I just press the FN key 
>>>>> nothing happens.  When I press the VO modifier, the keys behave as you 
>>>>> describe.
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Donna
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:27 AM, Bradford Snyder >>>>> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Changing the behavior of the arrow keys is not a function of VoiceOver, 
>>>>>> therefore it is not necessary to use the VO modifier in order to use the 
>>>>>> alternate actions of the arrow keys as described in my original response.
>>>>>> You can test this by turning on Keyboard Help, then press the different 
>>>>>> arrow keys while holding down only the Fn key.
>>>>>> Whether or not the VO modifier is used along with the Fn key makes no 
>>>>>> matter.  The actions of the arrow keys will be the same.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> - Brad -
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 08:55, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>> >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Just one addition to this, for me to use these commands, I also have to 
>>>>>> hold down the VO keys.  So, VO-FN-right arrow for home, etc.
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Donna
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jan 7, 2023, at 4:59 PM, Bradford Snyder >>>>>> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If you hold down the Fn key, the arrow keys become the following:
>>>>>>> Left Arrow becomes the Home key.
>>>>>>> Right Arrow becomes the End key.
>>>>>>> Up Arrow becomes the Page Up key.
>>>>>>> Down Arrow becomes the Page Down key.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> HTH.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - Brad -
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jan 7, 2023, at 16:41, Kevin Gibbs >>>>>> <mailto:kevj...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sometimes, I don’t have my full extended keyboard and have to type on 
>>>>>>> just my MacBook Pro keyboard.  But I don’t have Page Up/Down or Home 
>>>>>>> and End keys.  How does one compensate for this?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Kevin
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
>>>>>>> itself.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>>>>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara 
>>>>>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>>>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>
>>>>>>> --- 
>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>.
>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/F72D326E-BD7A-40A7-A56E-2C79FA7A98B9%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> <https://g

Re: How does one compensate for PageUp and PageDown keys or Home and End keys on a MacBook Pro without an external full keyboard?

['E.T.' via MacVisionaries]

   Do us all a favor and take this off list where it belongs. 
Personality conflicts are off topic as they have nothing to do with 
Apple products.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible
will make violent revolution inevitable."
 --John F. Kennedy
My e-Mail:
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 1/8/2023 9:07 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
Brad,. I am really tired of the obnoxious behavior you display on this 
list.  Either learn to be civil, or get off the list.


I can reproduce this behavior flawlessly, and without exception.  Just 
pressing the FN key does NOTHING! So, you can be rude all you want, but 
I’m going to post my experience as there is probably someone else out 
there who experiences the same thing, as I don’t that my Mac is an 
anomaly.  I don’t doubt that your Mac behaves as you describe, but mine, 
and undoubtedly others, do not.  So please don’t dismiss what I write 
out of hand.

Donna

On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:41 AM, Brad Snyder <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:


Hi Donna,
You can disagree all you want, but the VO key is not necessary to 
change the behavior of the arrow keys when using the Fn key.


- Brad -

On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:11, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:


Sorry, Brad, but I have to disagree.  When I just press the FN key 
nothing happens.  When I press the VO modifier, the keys behave as you 
describe.

Cheers,
Donna

On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:27 AM, Bradford Snyder <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:


Changing the behavior of the arrow keys is not a function of 
VoiceOver, therefore it is not necessary to use the VO modifier in 
order to use the alternate actions of the arrow keys as described in 
my original response.
You can test this by turning on Keyboard Help, then press the 
different arrow keys while holding down only the Fn key.
Whether or not the VO modifier is used along with the Fn key makes no 
matter.  The actions of the arrow keys will be the same.


- Brad -



On Jan 8, 2023, at 08:55, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:


Just one addition to this, for me to use these commands, I also have 
to hold down the VO keys.  So, VO-FN-right arrow for home, etc.

Cheers,
Donna

On Jan 7, 2023, at 4:59 PM, Bradford Snyder <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:


If you hold down the Fn key, the arrow keys become the following:
Left Arrow becomes the Home key.
Right Arrow becomes the End key.
Up Arrow becomes the Page Up key.
Down Arrow becomes the Page Down key.

HTH.

- Brad -



On Jan 7, 2023, at 16:41, Kevin Gibbs <mailto:kevj...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Sometimes, I don’t have my full extended keyboard and have to type 
on just my MacBook Pro keyboard.  But I don’t have Page Up/Down or 
Home and End keys.  How does one compensate for this?


Thanks,
Kevin

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Re: How does one compensate for PageUp and PageDown keys or Home and End keys on a MacBook Pro without an external full keyboard?

[Brad Snyder]

Hello Donna and all,What you are experiencing has to do with the behavior of VoiceOver navigation within a specific application, such as Mail, TextEdit, or  other native Mac applications.This is a separate issue from modifying the behavior of the arrow keys while holding down only the Fn key.- Brad -On Jan 8, 2023, at 11:53, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries  wrote:Thanks, Michael and Dave.  Very glad that you can reproduce what I’m seeing. Dave, I’ve used the Mac long enough that I don’t go into keyboard help all that often. What you said about the longer explanation is interesting, I hadn’t stuck around in Help long enough to hear all that.  I think I just figured out the VO thing by experimenting until I found the key combination that worked.Cheers,DonnaOn Jan 8, 2023, at 11:40 AM, Dave Carlson <dgcarlson0...@gmail.com> wrote:I’ve noticed a subtle difference when experimenting in the VO keyboard help mode.With just Fn and the left/right the announcement is Home and end, as reported.However when holding Fn plus VO and pressing left arrow, a moment after saying home it will also announce “Go to beginning, moves the cursor to the beginning” and similar additional information for the right arrow.I think there is a difference in behavior for these two scenarios that may indeed affect how it works inside documents, etc.
Dave CarlsonFarfar, Oregonian, Engineer, Woodworker, Musiciandgcarlson0...@gmail.com

On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:29 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:Hi Michael,So if I go into keyboard help and press those keys—exactly as you describe—VO does say Home, End etc.  But if I press FN plus an arrow key without the VO modifier while in a document, webpage etc,nothing happens.Cheers,DonnaOn Jan 8, 2023, at 11:23 AM, Michael Babcock <michael@payown.media> wrote:Hi Donna!To verify, when you press and hold FN, while pressing left or right in keyboard help mode with VO+K your saying your computer doesn’t say home or end unless you press the VO keys as well?That is strange, on this MacBook Air, I can do the following steps:1. Press VO+K to enter keyboard help mode2. Press and hold the FN key, bottom left key3. While still pressing FN, press left or right and I hear Home or End respectively.Have a beautiful day.On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:07 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:Brad,. I am really tired of the obnoxious behavior you display on this list.  Either learn to be civil, or get off the list.I can reproduce this behavior flawlessly, and without exception.  Just pressing the FN key does NOTHING! So, you can be rude all you want, but I’m going to post my experience as there is probably someone else out there who experiences the same thing, as I don’t that my Mac is an anomaly.  I don’t doubt that your Mac behaves as you describe, but mine, and undoubtedly others, do not.  So please don’t dismiss what I write out of hand.DonnaOn Jan 8, 2023, at 10:41 AM, Brad Snyder <wb...@swbell.net> wrote:Hi Donna,You can disagree all you want, but the VO key is not necessary to change the behavior of the arrow keys when using the Fn key.- Brad -On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:11, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:Sorry, Brad, but I have to disagree.  When I just press the FN key nothing happens.  When I press the VO modifier, the keys behave as you describe.Cheers,DonnaOn Jan 8, 2023, at 9:27 AM, Bradford Snyder <wb...@swbell.net> wrote:Changing the behavior of the arrow keys is not a function of VoiceOver, therefore it is not necessary to use the VO modifier in order to use the alternate actions of the arrow keys as described in my original response.You can test this by turning on Keyboard Help, then press the different arrow keys while holding down only the Fn key.
Whether or not the VO modifier is used along with the Fn key makes no matter.  The actions of the arrow keys will be the same.- Brad -


On Jan 8, 2023, at 08:55, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:Just one addition to this, for me to use these commands, I also have to hold down the VO keys.  So, VO-FN-right arrow for home, etc.Cheers,DonnaOn Jan 7, 2023, at 4:59 PM, Bradford Snyder <wb...@swbell.net> wrote:If you hold down the Fn key, the arrow keys become the following:Left Arrow becomes the Home key.Right Arrow becomes the End key.Up Arrow becomes the Page Up key.Down Arrow becomes the Page Down key.HTH.
- Brad -


On Jan 7, 2023, at 16:41, Kevin Gibbs <kevj...@gmail.com> wrote:Sometimes, I don’t have my full extended keyboard and have to type on just my MacBook Pro keyboard.  But I don’t have Page Up/Down or Home and End keys.  How does one compensate for this?Thanks,Kevin-- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list.If you have any questions or concerns abou

Re: How does one compensate for PageUp and PageDown keys or Home and End keys on a MacBook Pro without an external full keyboard?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Thanks, Michael and Dave.  Very glad that you can reproduce what I’m seeing. 
Dave, I’ve used the Mac long enough that I don’t go into keyboard help all that 
often. What you said about the longer explanation is interesting, I hadn’t 
stuck around in Help long enough to hear all that.  I think I just figured out 
the VO thing by experimenting until I found the key combination that worked.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Jan 8, 2023, at 11:40 AM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> I’ve noticed a subtle difference when experimenting in the VO keyboard help 
> mode.
> 
> With just Fn and the left/right the announcement is Home and end, as reported.
> 
> However when holding Fn plus VO and pressing left arrow, a moment after 
> saying home it will also announce “Go to beginning, moves the cursor to the 
> beginning” and similar additional information for the right arrow.
> 
> I think there is a difference in behavior for these two scenarios that may 
> indeed affect how it works inside documents, etc.
> 
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Farfar, Oregonian, Engineer, Woodworker, Musician
> dgcarlson0...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:29 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Michael,
> 
> So if I go into keyboard help and press those keys—exactly as you describe—VO 
> does say Home, End etc.  But if I press FN plus an arrow key without the VO 
> modifier while in a document, webpage etc,nothing happens.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> 
>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 11:23 AM, Michael Babcock > <mailto:michael@payown.media>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Donna!
>> 
>> To verify, when you press and hold FN, while pressing left or right in 
>> keyboard help mode with VO+K your saying your computer doesn’t say home or 
>> end unless you press the VO keys as well?
>> 
>> That is strange, on this MacBook Air, I can do the following steps:
>> 
>> 1. Press VO+K to enter keyboard help mode
>> 2. Press and hold the FN key, bottom left key
>> 3. While still pressing FN, press left or right and I hear Home or End 
>> respectively.
>> 
>> Have a beautiful day.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:07 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Brad,. I am really tired of the obnoxious behavior you display on this 
>>> list.  Either learn to be civil, or get off the list.
>>> 
>>> I can reproduce this behavior flawlessly, and without exception.  Just 
>>> pressing the FN key does NOTHING! So, you can be rude all you want, but I’m 
>>> going to post my experience as there is probably someone else out there who 
>>> experiences the same thing, as I don’t that my Mac is an anomaly.  I don’t 
>>> doubt that your Mac behaves as you describe, but mine, and undoubtedly 
>>> others, do not.  So please don’t dismiss what I write out of hand.
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:41 AM, Brad Snyder >>> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Donna,
>>>> You can disagree all you want, but the VO key is not necessary to change 
>>>> the behavior of the arrow keys when using the Fn key.
>>>> 
>>>> - Brad -
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:11, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Sorry, Brad, but I have to disagree.  When I just press the FN key 
>>>> nothing happens.  When I press the VO modifier, the keys behave as you 
>>>> describe.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Donna
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:27 AM, Bradford Snyder >>>> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Changing the behavior of the arrow keys is not a function of VoiceOver, 
>>>>> therefore it is not necessary to use the VO modifier in order to use the 
>>>>> alternate actions of the arrow keys as described in my original response.
>>>>> You can test this by turning on Keyboard Help, then press the different 
>>>>> arrow keys while holding down only the Fn key.
>>>>> Whether or not the VO modifier is used along with the Fn key makes no 
>>>>> matter.  The actions of the arrow keys will be the same.
>>>>> 
>>>>> - Brad -
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 08:55, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisiona

Re: How does one compensate for PageUp and PageDown keys or Home and End keys on a MacBook Pro without an external full keyboard?

[Dave Carlson]

I’ve noticed a subtle difference when experimenting in the VO keyboard help 
mode.

With just Fn and the left/right the announcement is Home and end, as reported.

However when holding Fn plus VO and pressing left arrow, a moment after saying 
home it will also announce “Go to beginning, moves the cursor to the beginning” 
and similar additional information for the right arrow.

I think there is a difference in behavior for these two scenarios that may 
indeed affect how it works inside documents, etc.


Dave Carlson
Farfar, Oregonian, Engineer, Woodworker, Musician
dgcarlson0...@gmail.com




On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:29 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi Michael,

So if I go into keyboard help and press those keys—exactly as you describe—VO 
does say Home, End etc.  But if I press FN plus an arrow key without the VO 
modifier while in a document, webpage etc,nothing happens.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Jan 8, 2023, at 11:23 AM, Michael Babcock  <mailto:michael@payown.media>> wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna!
> 
> To verify, when you press and hold FN, while pressing left or right in 
> keyboard help mode with VO+K your saying your computer doesn’t say home or 
> end unless you press the VO keys as well?
> 
> That is strange, on this MacBook Air, I can do the following steps:
> 
> 1. Press VO+K to enter keyboard help mode
> 2. Press and hold the FN key, bottom left key
> 3. While still pressing FN, press left or right and I hear Home or End 
> respectively.
> 
> Have a beautiful day.
> 
> 
>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:07 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Brad,. I am really tired of the obnoxious behavior you display on this list. 
>>  Either learn to be civil, or get off the list.
>> 
>> I can reproduce this behavior flawlessly, and without exception.  Just 
>> pressing the FN key does NOTHING! So, you can be rude all you want, but I’m 
>> going to post my experience as there is probably someone else out there who 
>> experiences the same thing, as I don’t that my Mac is an anomaly.  I don’t 
>> doubt that your Mac behaves as you describe, but mine, and undoubtedly 
>> others, do not.  So please don’t dismiss what I write out of hand.
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:41 AM, Brad Snyder >> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Donna,
>>> You can disagree all you want, but the VO key is not necessary to change 
>>> the behavior of the arrow keys when using the Fn key.
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:11, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Sorry, Brad, but I have to disagree.  When I just press the FN key nothing 
>>> happens.  When I press the VO modifier, the keys behave as you describe.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:27 AM, Bradford Snyder >>> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Changing the behavior of the arrow keys is not a function of VoiceOver, 
>>>> therefore it is not necessary to use the VO modifier in order to use the 
>>>> alternate actions of the arrow keys as described in my original response.
>>>> You can test this by turning on Keyboard Help, then press the different 
>>>> arrow keys while holding down only the Fn key.
>>>> Whether or not the VO modifier is used along with the Fn key makes no 
>>>> matter.  The actions of the arrow keys will be the same.
>>>> 
>>>> - Brad -
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 08:55, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Just one addition to this, for me to use these commands, I also have to 
>>>> hold down the VO keys.  So, VO-FN-right arrow for home, etc.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Donna
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 7, 2023, at 4:59 PM, Bradford Snyder >>>> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you hold down the Fn key, the arrow keys become the following:
>>>>> Left Arrow becomes the Home key.
>>>>> Right Arrow becomes the End key.
>>>>> Up Arrow becomes the Page Up key.
>>>>> Down Arrow becomes the Page Down key.
>>>>> 
>>>>> HTH.
>>>>> 
>>>>> - Brad -
>>>

Re: How does one compensate for PageUp and PageDown keys or Home and End keys on a MacBook Pro without an external full keyboard?

[Michael Babcock]

Hi Donna!

OK, I see now!

I can verify that this is the case for me as well.

E.G.

1. Open a email message (this one I’m in now for example)
2. Press fn+left or fn+right
3. Nothing Happens, focus stays in the current position.
4. Press fn+VO+Left or FN+VO+Right will move you to the start or end of an edit 
field.

Thanks for this.


> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:29 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Michael,
> 
> So if I go into keyboard help and press those keys—exactly as you describe—VO 
> does say Home, End etc.  But if I press FN plus an arrow key without the VO 
> modifier while in a document, webpage etc,nothing happens.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> 
>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 11:23 AM, Michael Babcock > <mailto:michael@payown.media>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Donna!
>> 
>> To verify, when you press and hold FN, while pressing left or right in 
>> keyboard help mode with VO+K your saying your computer doesn’t say home or 
>> end unless you press the VO keys as well?
>> 
>> That is strange, on this MacBook Air, I can do the following steps:
>> 
>> 1. Press VO+K to enter keyboard help mode
>> 2. Press and hold the FN key, bottom left key
>> 3. While still pressing FN, press left or right and I hear Home or End 
>> respectively.
>> 
>> Have a beautiful day.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:07 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Brad,. I am really tired of the obnoxious behavior you display on this 
>>> list.  Either learn to be civil, or get off the list.
>>> 
>>> I can reproduce this behavior flawlessly, and without exception.  Just 
>>> pressing the FN key does NOTHING! So, you can be rude all you want, but I’m 
>>> going to post my experience as there is probably someone else out there who 
>>> experiences the same thing, as I don’t that my Mac is an anomaly.  I don’t 
>>> doubt that your Mac behaves as you describe, but mine, and undoubtedly 
>>> others, do not.  So please don’t dismiss what I write out of hand.
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:41 AM, Brad Snyder >>> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Donna,
>>>> You can disagree all you want, but the VO key is not necessary to change 
>>>> the behavior of the arrow keys when using the Fn key.
>>>> 
>>>> - Brad -
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:11, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Sorry, Brad, but I have to disagree.  When I just press the FN key 
>>>> nothing happens.  When I press the VO modifier, the keys behave as you 
>>>> describe.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Donna
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:27 AM, Bradford Snyder >>>> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Changing the behavior of the arrow keys is not a function of VoiceOver, 
>>>>> therefore it is not necessary to use the VO modifier in order to use the 
>>>>> alternate actions of the arrow keys as described in my original response.
>>>>> You can test this by turning on Keyboard Help, then press the different 
>>>>> arrow keys while holding down only the Fn key.
>>>>> Whether or not the VO modifier is used along with the Fn key makes no 
>>>>> matter.  The actions of the arrow keys will be the same.
>>>>> 
>>>>> - Brad -
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 08:55, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>> >>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just one addition to this, for me to use these commands, I also have to 
>>>>> hold down the VO keys.  So, VO-FN-right arrow for home, etc.
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Donna
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 7, 2023, at 4:59 PM, Bradford Snyder >>>>> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If you hold down the Fn key, the arrow keys become the following:
>>>>>> Left Arrow becomes the Home key.
>>>>>> Right Arrow becomes the End key.
>>>>>> Up Arrow becomes the Page Up key.
>>>>>> Do

Re: How does one compensate for PageUp and PageDown keys or Home and End keys on a MacBook Pro without an external full keyboard?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Michael,

So if I go into keyboard help and press those keys—exactly as you describe—VO 
does say Home, End etc.  But if I press FN plus an arrow key without the VO 
modifier while in a document, webpage etc,nothing happens.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Jan 8, 2023, at 11:23 AM, Michael Babcock  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna!
> 
> To verify, when you press and hold FN, while pressing left or right in 
> keyboard help mode with VO+K your saying your computer doesn’t say home or 
> end unless you press the VO keys as well?
> 
> That is strange, on this MacBook Air, I can do the following steps:
> 
> 1. Press VO+K to enter keyboard help mode
> 2. Press and hold the FN key, bottom left key
> 3. While still pressing FN, press left or right and I hear Home or End 
> respectively.
> 
> Have a beautiful day.
> 
> 
>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:07 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Brad,. I am really tired of the obnoxious behavior you display on this list. 
>>  Either learn to be civil, or get off the list.
>> 
>> I can reproduce this behavior flawlessly, and without exception.  Just 
>> pressing the FN key does NOTHING! So, you can be rude all you want, but I’m 
>> going to post my experience as there is probably someone else out there who 
>> experiences the same thing, as I don’t that my Mac is an anomaly.  I don’t 
>> doubt that your Mac behaves as you describe, but mine, and undoubtedly 
>> others, do not.  So please don’t dismiss what I write out of hand.
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:41 AM, Brad Snyder >> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Donna,
>>> You can disagree all you want, but the VO key is not necessary to change 
>>> the behavior of the arrow keys when using the Fn key.
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:11, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Sorry, Brad, but I have to disagree.  When I just press the FN key nothing 
>>> happens.  When I press the VO modifier, the keys behave as you describe.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:27 AM, Bradford Snyder >>> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Changing the behavior of the arrow keys is not a function of VoiceOver, 
>>>> therefore it is not necessary to use the VO modifier in order to use the 
>>>> alternate actions of the arrow keys as described in my original response.
>>>> You can test this by turning on Keyboard Help, then press the different 
>>>> arrow keys while holding down only the Fn key.
>>>> Whether or not the VO modifier is used along with the Fn key makes no 
>>>> matter.  The actions of the arrow keys will be the same.
>>>> 
>>>> - Brad -
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 08:55, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Just one addition to this, for me to use these commands, I also have to 
>>>> hold down the VO keys.  So, VO-FN-right arrow for home, etc.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Donna
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 7, 2023, at 4:59 PM, Bradford Snyder >>>> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you hold down the Fn key, the arrow keys become the following:
>>>>> Left Arrow becomes the Home key.
>>>>> Right Arrow becomes the End key.
>>>>> Up Arrow becomes the Page Up key.
>>>>> Down Arrow becomes the Page Down key.
>>>>> 
>>>>> HTH.
>>>>> 
>>>>> - Brad -
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 7, 2023, at 16:41, Kevin Gibbs >>>> <mailto:kevj...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sometimes, I don’t have my full extended keyboard and have to type on 
>>>>> just my MacBook Pro keyboard.  But I don’t have Page Up/Down or Home and 
>>>>> End keys.  How does one compensate for this?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Kevin
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you have any questions or 

Re: How does one compensate for PageUp and PageDown keys or Home and End keys on a MacBook Pro without an external full keyboard?

[Michael Babcock]

Hi Donna!

To verify, when you press and hold FN, while pressing left or right in keyboard 
help mode with VO+K your saying your computer doesn’t say home or end unless 
you press the VO keys as well?

That is strange, on this MacBook Air, I can do the following steps:

1. Press VO+K to enter keyboard help mode
2. Press and hold the FN key, bottom left key
3. While still pressing FN, press left or right and I hear Home or End 
respectively.

Have a beautiful day.


> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:07 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Brad,. I am really tired of the obnoxious behavior you display on this list.  
> Either learn to be civil, or get off the list.
> 
> I can reproduce this behavior flawlessly, and without exception.  Just 
> pressing the FN key does NOTHING! So, you can be rude all you want, but I’m 
> going to post my experience as there is probably someone else out there who 
> experiences the same thing, as I don’t that my Mac is an anomaly.  I don’t 
> doubt that your Mac behaves as you describe, but mine, and undoubtedly 
> others, do not.  So please don’t dismiss what I write out of hand.
> Donna
> 
>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:41 AM, Brad Snyder > <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Donna,
>> You can disagree all you want, but the VO key is not necessary to change the 
>> behavior of the arrow keys when using the Fn key.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:11, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Sorry, Brad, but I have to disagree.  When I just press the FN key nothing 
>> happens.  When I press the VO modifier, the keys behave as you describe.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:27 AM, Bradford Snyder >> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Changing the behavior of the arrow keys is not a function of VoiceOver, 
>>> therefore it is not necessary to use the VO modifier in order to use the 
>>> alternate actions of the arrow keys as described in my original response.
>>> You can test this by turning on Keyboard Help, then press the different 
>>> arrow keys while holding down only the Fn key.
>>> Whether or not the VO modifier is used along with the Fn key makes no 
>>> matter.  The actions of the arrow keys will be the same.
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 08:55, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Just one addition to this, for me to use these commands, I also have to 
>>> hold down the VO keys.  So, VO-FN-right arrow for home, etc.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 7, 2023, at 4:59 PM, Bradford Snyder >>> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> If you hold down the Fn key, the arrow keys become the following:
>>>> Left Arrow becomes the Home key.
>>>> Right Arrow becomes the End key.
>>>> Up Arrow becomes the Page Up key.
>>>> Down Arrow becomes the Page Down key.
>>>> 
>>>> HTH.
>>>> 
>>>> - Brad -
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 7, 2023, at 16:41, Kevin Gibbs >>> <mailto:kevj...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Sometimes, I don’t have my full extended keyboard and have to type on just 
>>>> my MacBook Pro keyboard.  But I don’t have Page Up/Down or Home and End 
>>>> keys.  How does one compensate for this?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Kevin
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>> 
>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>> 
>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
>>>> 
>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>>> --- 
>&

Re: How does one compensate for PageUp and PageDown keys or Home and End keys on a MacBook Pro without an external full keyboard?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Brad,. I am really tired of the obnoxious behavior you display on this list.  
Either learn to be civil, or get off the list.

I can reproduce this behavior flawlessly, and without exception.  Just pressing 
the FN key does NOTHING! So, you can be rude all you want, but I’m going to 
post my experience as there is probably someone else out there who experiences 
the same thing, as I don’t that my Mac is an anomaly.  I don’t doubt that your 
Mac behaves as you describe, but mine, and undoubtedly others, do not.  So 
please don’t dismiss what I write out of hand.
Donna

> On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:41 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna,
> You can disagree all you want, but the VO key is not necessary to change the 
> behavior of the arrow keys when using the Fn key.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:11, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Sorry, Brad, but I have to disagree.  When I just press the FN key nothing 
> happens.  When I press the VO modifier, the keys behave as you describe.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:27 AM, Bradford Snyder > <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> Changing the behavior of the arrow keys is not a function of VoiceOver, 
>> therefore it is not necessary to use the VO modifier in order to use the 
>> alternate actions of the arrow keys as described in my original response.
>> You can test this by turning on Keyboard Help, then press the different 
>> arrow keys while holding down only the Fn key.
>> Whether or not the VO modifier is used along with the Fn key makes no 
>> matter.  The actions of the arrow keys will be the same.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 08:55, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Just one addition to this, for me to use these commands, I also have to hold 
>> down the VO keys.  So, VO-FN-right arrow for home, etc.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Jan 7, 2023, at 4:59 PM, Bradford Snyder >> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> If you hold down the Fn key, the arrow keys become the following:
>>> Left Arrow becomes the Home key.
>>> Right Arrow becomes the End key.
>>> Up Arrow becomes the Page Up key.
>>> Down Arrow becomes the Page Down key.
>>> 
>>> HTH.
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jan 7, 2023, at 16:41, Kevin Gibbs >> <mailto:kevj...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Sometimes, I don’t have my full extended keyboard and have to type on just 
>>> my MacBook Pro keyboard.  But I don’t have Page Up/Down or Home and End 
>>> keys.  How does one compensate for this?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Kevin
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
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>>> 
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Re: How does one compensate for PageUp and PageDown keys or Home and End keys on a MacBook Pro without an external full keyboard?

[Brad Snyder]

Hi Donna,You can disagree all you want, but the VO key is not necessary to change the behavior of the arrow keys when using the Fn key.- Brad -On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:11, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries  wrote:Sorry, Brad, but I have to disagree.  When I just press the FN key nothing happens.  When I press the VO modifier, the keys behave as you describe.Cheers,DonnaOn Jan 8, 2023, at 9:27 AM, Bradford Snyder <wb...@swbell.net> wrote:Changing the behavior of the arrow keys is not a function of VoiceOver, therefore it is not necessary to use the VO modifier in order to use the alternate actions of the arrow keys as described in my original response.You can test this by turning on Keyboard Help, then press the different arrow keys while holding down only the Fn key.
Whether or not the VO modifier is used along with the Fn key makes no matter.  The actions of the arrow keys will be the same.- Brad -


On Jan 8, 2023, at 08:55, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:Just one addition to this, for me to use these commands, I also have to hold down the VO keys.  So, VO-FN-right arrow for home, etc.Cheers,DonnaOn Jan 7, 2023, at 4:59 PM, Bradford Snyder <wb...@swbell.net> wrote:If you hold down the Fn key, the arrow keys become the following:Left Arrow becomes the Home key.Right Arrow becomes the End key.Up Arrow becomes the Page Up key.Down Arrow becomes the Page Down key.HTH.
- Brad -


On Jan 7, 2023, at 16:41, Kevin Gibbs <kevj...@gmail.com> wrote:Sometimes, I don’t have my full extended keyboard and have to type on just my MacBook Pro keyboard.  But I don’t have Page Up/Down or Home and End keys.  How does one compensate for this?Thanks,Kevin-- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list.If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.comThe archives for this list can be searched at:http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/F72D326E-BD7A-40A7-A56E-2C79FA7A98B9%40gmail.com.

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Re: How does one compensate for PageUp and PageDown keys or Home and End keys on a MacBook Pro without an external full keyboard?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Sorry, Brad, but I have to disagree.  When I just press the FN key nothing 
happens.  When I press the VO modifier, the keys behave as you describe.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:27 AM, Bradford Snyder  wrote:
> 
> Changing the behavior of the arrow keys is not a function of VoiceOver, 
> therefore it is not necessary to use the VO modifier in order to use the 
> alternate actions of the arrow keys as described in my original response.
> You can test this by turning on Keyboard Help, then press the different arrow 
> keys while holding down only the Fn key.
> Whether or not the VO modifier is used along with the Fn key makes no matter. 
>  The actions of the arrow keys will be the same.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 8, 2023, at 08:55, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Just one addition to this, for me to use these commands, I also have to hold 
> down the VO keys.  So, VO-FN-right arrow for home, etc.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Jan 7, 2023, at 4:59 PM, Bradford Snyder > <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> If you hold down the Fn key, the arrow keys become the following:
>> Left Arrow becomes the Home key.
>> Right Arrow becomes the End key.
>> Up Arrow becomes the Page Up key.
>> Down Arrow becomes the Page Down key.
>> 
>> HTH.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 7, 2023, at 16:41, Kevin Gibbs > <mailto:kevj...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Sometimes, I don’t have my full extended keyboard and have to type on just 
>> my MacBook Pro keyboard.  But I don’t have Page Up/Down or Home and End 
>> keys.  How does one compensate for this?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Kevin
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
>> 
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>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
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Re: How does one compensate for PageUp and PageDown keys or Home and End keys on a MacBook Pro without an external full keyboard?

[Bradford Snyder]

Changing the behavior of the arrow keys is not a function of VoiceOver, 
therefore it is not necessary to use the VO modifier in order to use the 
alternate actions of the arrow keys as described in my original response.
You can test this by turning on Keyboard Help, then press the different arrow 
keys while holding down only the Fn key.
Whether or not the VO modifier is used along with the Fn key makes no matter.  
The actions of the arrow keys will be the same.

- Brad -



On Jan 8, 2023, at 08:55, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Just one addition to this, for me to use these commands, I also have to hold 
down the VO keys.  So, VO-FN-right arrow for home, etc.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Jan 7, 2023, at 4:59 PM, Bradford Snyder  <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
> 
> If you hold down the Fn key, the arrow keys become the following:
> Left Arrow becomes the Home key.
> Right Arrow becomes the End key.
> Up Arrow becomes the Page Up key.
> Down Arrow becomes the Page Down key.
> 
> HTH.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 7, 2023, at 16:41, Kevin Gibbs  <mailto:kevj...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Sometimes, I don’t have my full extended keyboard and have to type on just my 
> MacBook Pro keyboard.  But I don’t have Page Up/Down or Home and End keys.  
> How does one compensate for this?
> 
> Thanks,
> Kevin
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
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Re: How does one compensate for PageUp and PageDown keys or Home and End keys on a MacBook Pro without an external full keyboard?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Just one addition to this, for me to use these commands, I also have to hold 
down the VO keys.  So, VO-FN-right arrow for home, etc.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Jan 7, 2023, at 4:59 PM, Bradford Snyder  wrote:
> 
> If you hold down the Fn key, the arrow keys become the following:
> Left Arrow becomes the Home key.
> Right Arrow becomes the End key.
> Up Arrow becomes the Page Up key.
> Down Arrow becomes the Page Down key.
> 
> HTH.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 7, 2023, at 16:41, Kevin Gibbs  wrote:
> 
> Sometimes, I don’t have my full extended keyboard and have to type on just my 
> MacBook Pro keyboard.  But I don’t have Page Up/Down or Home and End keys.  
> How does one compensate for this?
> 
> Thanks,
> Kevin
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: How does one compensate for PageUp and PageDown keys or Home and End keys on a MacBook Pro without an external full keyboard?

[Kevin Gibbs]

Thanks.  I'll check it out.

On Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 5:00:27 PM UTC-6 wb...@swbell.net wrote:

> If you hold down the Fn key, the arrow keys become the following:
> Left Arrow becomes the Home key.
> Right Arrow becomes the End key.
> Up Arrow becomes the Page Up key.
> Down Arrow becomes the Page Down key.
>
> HTH.
>
> - Brad -
>
>
>
> On Jan 7, 2023, at 16:41, Kevin Gibbs  wrote:
>
> Sometimes, I don’t have my full extended keyboard and have to type on just 
> my MacBook Pro keyboard.  But I don’t have Page Up/Down or Home and End 
> keys.  How does one compensate for this?
>
> Thanks,
> Kevin
>
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Re: How does one compensate for PageUp and PageDown keys or Home and End keys on a MacBook Pro without an external full keyboard?

[Bradford Snyder]

If you hold down the Fn key, the arrow keys become the following:
Left Arrow becomes the Home key.
Right Arrow becomes the End key.
Up Arrow becomes the Page Up key.
Down Arrow becomes the Page Down key.

HTH.

- Brad -



On Jan 7, 2023, at 16:41, Kevin Gibbs  wrote:

Sometimes, I don’t have my full extended keyboard and have to type on just my 
MacBook Pro keyboard.  But I don’t have Page Up/Down or Home and End keys.  How 
does one compensate for this?

Thanks,
Kevin

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How does one compensate for PageUp and PageDown keys or Home and End keys on a MacBook Pro without an external full keyboard?

[Kevin Gibbs]

Sometimes, I don’t have my full extended keyboard and have to type on just my 
MacBook Pro keyboard.  But I don’t have Page Up/Down or Home and End keys.  How 
does one compensate for this?

Thanks,
Kevin

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Lowered prices on my 2020 MacBook pro and iPad pro third gen with magic keyboard folio.

[Cameron Strife]

Hi everyone. Mark gave me permission to post this to the list. I've
lowered the prices of my MacBook pro and iPad pro.

Prices include shipping with tracking and insurance to the lower 48
states via USPS and I
accept payment via ApplePay and pay pal. To purchase, please write me
off list at: came...@cameronstrife.com

2020 Apple MacBook pro 16 inch laptop. Includes Apple charger, Apple
product box, and original shipping  box. It's pretty much mint. This
machine is a beast! Specs include retina true tone display, Intel I9
processor at 2.30gHz per core with turboboost up to 5gHz, (eight
physical cores and eight virtual cores), 1 terabyte ssd, 16gb ddr4
ram, force touch trackpad, fingerprint ID, touchbar, facetime hd
camera,magic keyboard, triple microphone aray, six speaker sound
system with support for dolby Atmos, bluetooth 5.0, WiFi, Thunderbolt
3 ports, and a 3.5mm headphone jack etc.

This machine was almost three grand direct from Apple and is less than
two years old. . I have a dual boot setup on this machine via
bootcamp. It's an even
split for Mac OS and windows. If you wish, I could do a clean install
of windows 10 or 11 64 bit with the license key already on the
machine, or, I could wipe the partition so you'd have the full 1tb for
Mac OS. It's your choice.

$1899

Apple iPad pro third gen, WiFi+cellular with 512gb storage. Pretty
much mint condition, includes charger, 2 gorilla glass screen
protectors, and Apple keyboard smart folio. I believe I also have a
high end dustproof and waterproof rugged all in one case that I never even
opened in my closet that I'll also include. Everything together was
around $1800.

$749

Specs:

Year: 2018
12.9" 120Hz ProMotion Retina Display
CPU: Apple A12X Fusion 2.5GHz
RAM: 4GB LPDDR4
Storage: 512GB
12MP Rear Camera w/ LED Flash
FaceID
iOS 16 Support

Connectivity:

USB-C Charge Port
WiFi + Cellular Capable
Apple Pencil 2st Gen Support
Apple Smart Cover Support, Magic Keyboard

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Re: for sale: 16 inch I9 MacBook pro and iPad pro third gen with accessories.

[Karen Lewellen]

Cameron,
Most pleased  to learn you are well.
Would you like me to share this post with the pro-tools list?
Karen



On Wed, 19 Oct 2022, Cameron Strife wrote:


Hello everybody. The list owner gave me permission to post this to the
list. I am selling the below items on their own, or, if you wanted
both, I would give you a discount. Prices include shipping with
tracking and insurance to the lower 48 states via USPS and I accept
payment via ApplePay.

To purchase, please write me off list at: came...@cameronstrife.com

Apple MacBook pro 16 inch laptop. Includes Apple charger, Apple
product box, and original shipping  box. It's pretty much mint. This
machine is a beast! Specs include retina true tone display, Intel I9
processor at 2.30gHz per core with turboboost up to 5gHz, (eight
physical cores and eight virtual cores), 1 terabyte ssd, 16gb ddr4
ram, force touch trackpad, fingerprint ID, touchbar, facetime hd
camera,magic keyboard, triple microphone aray, six speaker sound
system with support for dolby Atmos, bluetooth 5.0, WiFi, Thunderbolt
3 ports, and a 3.5mm headphone jack etc.

I have a dual boot setup on this machine via bootcamp. It's an even
split for Mac OS and windows. If you wish, I could do a clean install
of windows 10 or 11 64 bit with the license key already on the
machine, or, I could wipe the partition so you'd have the full 1tb for
Mac OS. It's your choice.

$2150

Apple iPad pro third gen, WiFi+cellular with 512gb storage. Pretty
much mint condition, includes charger, gorilla glass screen
protectors, and Apple keyboard smart folio. I believe I also have a
dustproof and waterproof rugged all in one case that I never even
opened in my closet that I'll also include.

$899

Specs:

Year: 2018
12.9" 120Hz ProMotion Retina Display
CPU: Apple A12X Fusion 2.5GHz
RAM: 4GB LPDDR4
Storage: 512GB
12MP Rear Camera w/ LED Flash
FaceID
iOS 16 Support

Connectivity:

USB-C Charge Port
WiFi + Cellular Capable
Apple Pencil 2st Gen Support
Apple Smart Cover Support, Magic Keyboard

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Re: for sale: 16 inch I9 MacBook pro and iPad pro third gen with accessories.

[Kathryn Zodrow]

Hi Cameron. That’s cool you are selling a Mac and an iPad. I might be 
interested, but I have a couple questions. What operating system is on the 
MacBook Pro and what year is the computer? When did you get the Mac and iPad? I 
will need to get a new Mac soon, probably a MacBook Air for my next laptop. 
I’ll let you know if I’m interested.
Thx.
Katie

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2022, at 5:27 PM, Cameron Strife  wrote:
> 
> Hello everybody. The list owner gave me permission to post this to the
> list. I am selling the below items on their own, or, if you wanted
> both, I would give you a discount. Prices include shipping with
> tracking and insurance to the lower 48 states via USPS and I accept
> payment via ApplePay.
> 
> To purchase, please write me off list at: came...@cameronstrife.com
> 
> Apple MacBook pro 16 inch laptop. Includes Apple charger, Apple
> product box, and original shippingbox. It's pretty much mint. This
> machine is a beast! Specs include retina true tone display, Intel I9
> processor at 2.30gHz per core with turboboost up to 5gHz, (eight
> physical cores and eight virtual cores), 1 terabyte ssd, 16gb ddr4
> ram, force touch trackpad, fingerprint ID, touchbar, facetime hd
> camera,magic keyboard, triple microphone aray, six speaker sound
> system with support for dolby Atmos, bluetooth 5.0, WiFi, Thunderbolt
> 3 ports, and a 3.5mm headphone jack etc.
> 
> I have a dual boot setup on this machine via bootcamp. It's an even
> split for Mac OS and windows. If you wish, I could do a clean install
> of windows 10 or 11 64 bit with the license key already on the
> machine, or, I could wipe the partition so you'd have the full 1tb for
> Mac OS. It's your choice.
> 
> $2150
> 
> Apple iPad pro third gen, WiFi+cellular with 512gb storage. Pretty
> much mint condition, includes charger, gorilla glass screen
> protectors, and Apple keyboard smart folio. I believe I also have a
> dustproof and waterproof rugged all in one case that I never even
> opened in my closet that I'll also include.
> 
> $899
> 
> Specs:
> 
> Year: 2018
> 12.9" 120Hz ProMotion Retina Display
> CPU: Apple A12X Fusion 2.5GHz
> RAM: 4GB LPDDR4
> Storage: 512GB
> 12MP Rear Camera w/ LED Flash
> FaceID
> iOS 16 Support
> 
> Connectivity:
> 
> USB-C Charge Port
> WiFi + Cellular Capable
> Apple Pencil 2st Gen Support
> Apple Smart Cover Support, Magic Keyboard
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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for sale: 16 inch I9 MacBook pro and iPad pro third gen with accessories.

[Cameron Strife]

Hello everybody. The list owner gave me permission to post this to the
list. I am selling the below items on their own, or, if you wanted
both, I would give you a discount. Prices include shipping with
tracking and insurance to the lower 48 states via USPS and I accept
payment via ApplePay.

To purchase, please write me off list at: came...@cameronstrife.com

Apple MacBook pro 16 inch laptop. Includes Apple charger, Apple
product box, and original shipping  box. It's pretty much mint. This
machine is a beast! Specs include retina true tone display, Intel I9
processor at 2.30gHz per core with turboboost up to 5gHz, (eight
physical cores and eight virtual cores), 1 terabyte ssd, 16gb ddr4
ram, force touch trackpad, fingerprint ID, touchbar, facetime hd
camera,magic keyboard, triple microphone aray, six speaker sound
system with support for dolby Atmos, bluetooth 5.0, WiFi, Thunderbolt
3 ports, and a 3.5mm headphone jack etc.

I have a dual boot setup on this machine via bootcamp. It's an even
split for Mac OS and windows. If you wish, I could do a clean install
of windows 10 or 11 64 bit with the license key already on the
machine, or, I could wipe the partition so you'd have the full 1tb for
Mac OS. It's your choice.

$2150

Apple iPad pro third gen, WiFi+cellular with 512gb storage. Pretty
much mint condition, includes charger, gorilla glass screen
protectors, and Apple keyboard smart folio. I believe I also have a
dustproof and waterproof rugged all in one case that I never even
opened in my closet that I'll also include.

$899

Specs:

Year: 2018
12.9" 120Hz ProMotion Retina Display
CPU: Apple A12X Fusion 2.5GHz
RAM: 4GB LPDDR4
Storage: 512GB
12MP Rear Camera w/ LED Flash
FaceID
iOS 16 Support

Connectivity:

USB-C Charge Port
WiFi + Cellular Capable
Apple Pencil 2st Gen Support
Apple Smart Cover Support, Magic Keyboard

-- 
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list.

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feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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Re: Macbook Pro 14" 2021

[Tibor Niesner]

Thanks for your answers.

Tibor

Odesláno z iPhonu

> 11. 6. 2022 v 1:10, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
> :
> 
> 
> I bought one last year on the day of the announcement – M1 Pro with 10-core 
> CPU, 14-core GPU, 32GB RAM, 1TB storage.
> The performance is excellent. Recently, I was helping to test an open-source 
> software project. The software compiled on my 14-inch MacBook Pro in less 
> than half the time that it took to compile on my Lenovo ThinkPad P51 laptop, 
> which has an Intel Xeon CPU (4 cores) and 32GB of RAM as well as NVME storage.
>  
> I haven’t yet taken the MacBook Pro out of the apartment, or even away from 
> my desk. It’s holding the battery at 80% of charge capacity for preservation.
> I’ve also just bought a case for it, which hasn’t arrived yet.
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  on 
> behalf of Jürgen Fleger 
> Date: Thursday, 9June, 2022 at 17:03
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: Re: Macbook Pro 14" 2021
> 
> Hi,
> yes, I've got one. 16 GB of Ram, 2 TB SSD, M1 Pro. And I simply love it. It's 
> the most  gorgeous MacBook Ive ever owned. I didn't like my Macbook 13 with 
> Touch Bar and the 16 inch Model like this MacBook 14 inch. It's fast. The Mac 
> Safe is a bit to strong. I Unintentionally pulled it but it stayed in the 
> Macbook and slipped out of the power supply. Funny but true.
> All the best 
> Jürgen
> 
>  
> 
> Von meinem iPhone gesendet
> 
> > Am 09.06.2022 um 20:40 schrieb Tibor Niesner :
> > 
> > Hello all,
> > 
> > has anyone Macbook Pro 14“ 2021? 
> > How do you like it? 
> > What a configuration do you have?
> > How is it a MagSafe connector?
> > How is it a keyboard? Was there any problems with this?
> > 
> > Thank you.
> > 
> > Tibor.
> > 
> > -- 
> > The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> > Visionaries list.
> > 
> > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
> > or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> > 
> > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
> >  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> > caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> > 
> > The archives for this list can be searched at:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/D4363CE0-B674-4243-A2F5-B2230B3E5497%40seznam.cz.
> > 
> 
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> 
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>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Macbook Pro 14" 2021

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

I bought one last year on the day of the announcement – M1 Pro with 10-core 
CPU, 14-core GPU, 32GB RAM, 1TB storage.
The performance is excellent. Recently, I was helping to test an open-source 
software project. The software compiled on my 14-inch MacBook Pro in less than 
half the time that it took to compile on my Lenovo ThinkPad P51 laptop, which 
has an Intel Xeon CPU (4 cores) and 32GB of RAM as well as NVME storage.

I haven’t yet taken the MacBook Pro out of the apartment, or even away from my 
desk. It’s holding the battery at 80% of charge capacity for preservation.
I’ve also just bought a case for it, which hasn’t arrived yet.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  on 
behalf of Jürgen Fleger 
Date: Thursday, 9June, 2022 at 17:03
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: Macbook Pro 14" 2021
Hi,
yes, I've got one. 16 GB of Ram, 2 TB SSD, M1 Pro. And I simply love it. It's 
the most  gorgeous MacBook Ive ever owned. I didn't like my Macbook 13 with 
Touch Bar and the 16 inch Model like this MacBook 14 inch. It's fast. The Mac 
Safe is a bit to strong. I Unintentionally pulled it but it stayed in the 
Macbook and slipped out of the power supply. Funny but true.
All the best
Jürgen



Von meinem iPhone gesendet

> Am 09.06.2022 um 20:40 schrieb Tibor Niesner :
>
> Hello all,
>
> has anyone Macbook Pro 14“ 2021?
> How do you like it?
> What a configuration do you have?
> How is it a MagSafe connector?
> How is it a keyboard? Was there any problems with this?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Tibor.
>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
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Re: Macbook Pro 14" 2021

[Jürgen Fleger]

Hi,
yes, I've got one. 16 GB of Ram, 2 TB SSD, M1 Pro. And I simply love it. It's 
the most  gorgeous MacBook Ive ever owned. I didn't like my Macbook 13 with 
Touch Bar and the 16 inch Model like this MacBook 14 inch. It's fast. The Mac 
Safe is a bit to strong. I Unintentionally pulled it but it stayed in the 
Macbook and slipped out of the power supply. Funny but true.
All the best 
Jürgen

 

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

> Am 09.06.2022 um 20:40 schrieb Tibor Niesner :
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> has anyone Macbook Pro 14“ 2021? 
> How do you like it? 
> What a configuration do you have?
> How is it a MagSafe connector?
> How is it a keyboard? Was there any problems with this?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Tibor.
> 
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Macbook Pro 14" 2021

[Tibor Niesner]

Hello all,

has anyone Macbook Pro 14“ 2021? 
How do you like it? 
What a configuration do you have?
How is it a MagSafe connector?
How is it a keyboard? Was there any problems with this?

Thank you.

Tibor.

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Fwd: issues with image monitor on my MacBook Pro 2020.

[Maurice A. mines]

> Begin forwarded message:
> Subject: FW: issues with image monitor on my MacBook Pro 2020.
> Date: April 25, 2022 at 5:05:58 PM PDT
> To: "'Maurice Mines'" 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2022 3:10 PM
> Subject: issues with image monitor on my MacBook Pro 2020.
> 
> Hello everyone, strange thing is going on. When I downloaded a disk image of 
> a different operating system, currently is unable to open the steps so that I 
> can verify that the download happened properly. My question is simply this 
> event known what applications can create issues where image problem with 
> failed work properly.
> 
> 
> My goal in all this just to make a local copy of this operating system so 
> that I can maybe trusted life use environment. In trusted out to make certain 
> but it might work before my partition my drive to formally install this 
> operating system. By the way it is Ubuntu Linux.
> 
> 
> Software that I suspect might be the culprit, having a bit of a hard time 
> figuring out how to verify this is McAfee Internet security for the Mac, 
> dropbox because it seems that it sends everything I do to MacLeod. 
> And last but not least, I have 1/3 party NTFS
> 
> 

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TouchBar on Macbook Pro doesn't show severals items

[Tibor Niesner]

Hello,

I have a problem with TouchBar on my Macbook Pro. 
When is opened any application, for example Finder, so there should be  items 
for example share, quick look, etc, but VO doesn’t see this items.
Have anyone the same problem?

Thank you.

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Re: Keeping Macbook-Pro-2017 Plugged-in ?

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

No.  Although the processors within will normally prevent overcharging, 
overheating etc, it is still unecessary and possibly problematic to leave a 
laptop permanently charging.

Later…


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Professional Learning Specialist
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On Mar 4, 2022, at 04:23, Fazil M.  wrote:
> 
> Hi.
> Is it advisable to leave Macbook-Pro-2017 plugged in all the time?
> Thanks!
> 
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Keeping Macbook-Pro-2017 Plugged-in ?

[Fazil M.]

Hi.

Is it advisable to leave Macbook-Pro-2017 plugged in all the time?

Thanks!

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Re: MacBook Pro m1.

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi brad,
Speaking personally, that really can depend on the nature of your hands.
Mine are rather small, meaning that I will absolutely end up using a 
full-size external keyboard to avoid that very thing.
Managing those combinations with my fingers does not seem to work easily, 
again speaking personally.

Karen



On Sat, 5 Feb 2022, Brad Snyder wrote:


The TouchBar is really irrelevant, and not a problem for VoiceOver users.

You can perform any VoiceOver command that uses F-keys, by holding down the VO 
modifier along with the Fn key, and then pressing a key on the NumberRow that 
corresponds with the F-key for the desired VO command.
For example, pressing Fn + VO + NumberRow 1, will result in VoiceOver speaking 
the current application.  Pressing Fn + VO + NumberRow 8, will open the 
VoiceOver Utility, and so on and so forth.

- Brad -




On Feb 5, 2022, at 08:45, Anders Holmberg  wrote:

Hi!
Ok, thanks for that one.
I don???t like the Touch Bar so I will get the 14 inch one which also has a sd 
card reader.
/A


5 feb. 2022 kl. 15:33 skrev Brad Snyder mailto:wb...@swbell.net>>:

The MacBook Air has never had a TouchBar.

The higher-end 14??? and 16??? MacBook Pros do not have the TouchBar.
Only the lower-end 13??? MacBook Pro still has the TouchBar, for now.
It is rumored that the current low-end 13??? MacBook Pro will be replaced with 
a newer 14??? model, that will not have a TouchBar.

- Brad -




On Feb 5, 2022, at 08:04, Janet Ingber mailto:janet.ing...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Good Morning,
I have an M1 Air and it does not have a touch bar.
Janet


On Feb 5, 2022, at 8:42 AM, Anders Holmberg mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:

Hi!
Has all the MacBook pro???s with m1 chip the Touch Bar or is it just some of 
them?
Blessings.
/A

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Re: MacBook Pro m1.

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

For reference, mine has two USB/Thunderbolt ports on the left and one on the 
right. Also, on the right is an SD card reader.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  on 
behalf of Les Kriegler 
Date: Saturday, 5February, 2022 at 13:34
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: MacBook Pro m1.
Hi Donna,

I couldn’t agree more with your comments. It would be nice to have at least one 
extra port. And you were right, it would also be helpful to have one on each 
side. Having said that. I am on a 16 day trip and I love having the year with 
me. It is as they say, as light as air. Just a great machine.

Sent from my iPhone


On Feb 5, 2022, at 6:35 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:
That was smart, Jason.  When I bought my M1, I switched from an MBP back to an 
MBA.  I’m happy with the Air in every way except for the two USB ports.  The 
thing I dislike the most about that setup is that both ports are on the same 
side of the Mac, which makes it awkward to use them both at the same time.
Cheers,
Donna



On Feb 5, 2022, at 10:31 AM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

I skipped all of the models that had a touch bar – but not for that reason. I 
waited for Apple’s new ARM-based architecture, then I decided to wait for a 
model with more than two USB ports, and finally bought a 14-inch MacBook Pro.

Over-all, I’m glad it has function keys.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> on 
behalf of Brad Snyder mailto:wb...@swbell.net>>
Date: Saturday, 5February, 2022 at 10:29
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
Subject: Re: MacBook Pro m1.
The TouchBar is really irrelevant, and not a problem for VoiceOver users.

You can perform any VoiceOver command that uses F-keys, by holding down the VO 
modifier along with the Fn key, and then pressing a key on the NumberRow that 
corresponds with the F-key for the desired VO command.
For example, pressing Fn + VO + NumberRow 1, will result in VoiceOver speaking 
the current application.  Pressing Fn + VO + NumberRow 8, will open the 
VoiceOver Utility, and so on and so forth.

- Brad -




On Feb 5, 2022, at 08:45, Anders Holmberg 
mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:

Hi!
Ok, thanks for that one.
I don’t like the Touch Bar so I will get the 14 inch one which also has a sd 
card reader.
/A



5 feb. 2022 kl. 15:33 skrev Brad Snyder 
mailto:wb...@swbell.net>>:

The MacBook Air has never had a TouchBar.

The higher-end 14” and 16” MacBook Pros do not have the TouchBar.
Only the lower-end 13” MacBook Pro still has the TouchBar, for now.
It is rumored that the current low-end 13” MacBook Pro will be replaced with a 
newer 14” model, that will not have a TouchBar.

- Brad -




On Feb 5, 2022, at 08:04, Janet Ingber 
mailto:janet.ing...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Good Morning,
I have an M1 Air and it does not have a touch bar.
Janet



On Feb 5, 2022, at 8:42 AM, Anders Holmberg 
mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:

Hi!
Has all the MacBook pro’s with m1 chip the Touch Bar or is it just some of them?
Blessings.
/A

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Re: MacBook Pro m1.

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

I agree, Les.  Other than the USB ports, I’m very happy with mine, too.
Best,
Donna


> On Feb 5, 2022, at 12:34 PM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna,
> 
> I couldn’t agree more with your comments. It would be nice to have at least 
> one extra port. And you were right, it would also be helpful to have one on 
> each side. Having said that. I am on a 16 day trip and I love having the year 
> with me. It is as they say, as light as air. Just a great machine.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 5, 2022, at 6:35 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> That was smart, Jason.  When I bought my M1, I switched from an MBP back to 
>> an MBA.  I’m happy with the Air in every way except for the two USB ports.  
>> The thing I dislike the most about that setup is that both ports are on the 
>> same side of the Mac, which makes it awkward to use them both at the same 
>> time.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 5, 2022, at 10:31 AM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I skipped all of the models that had a touch bar – but not for that reason. 
>>> I waited for Apple’s new ARM-based architecture, then I decided to wait for 
>>> a model with more than two USB ports, and finally bought a 14-inch MacBook 
>>> Pro.
>>>  
>>> Over-all, I’m glad it has function keys.
>>>  
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> on behalf of Brad Snyder 
>>> mailto:wb...@swbell.net>>
>>> Date: Saturday, 5February, 2022 at 10:29
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
>>> Subject: Re: MacBook Pro m1.
>>> 
>>> The TouchBar is really irrelevant, and not a problem for VoiceOver users.
>>>  
>>> You can perform any VoiceOver command that uses F-keys, by holding down the 
>>> VO modifier along with the Fn key, and then pressing a key on the NumberRow 
>>> that corresponds with the F-key for the desired VO command.
>>> For example, pressing Fn + VO + NumberRow 1, will result in VoiceOver 
>>> speaking the current application.  Pressing Fn + VO + NumberRow 8, will 
>>> open the VoiceOver Utility, and so on and so forth.
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> On Feb 5, 2022, at 08:45, Anders Holmberg >> <mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>>>  
>>> Hi!
>>> Ok, thanks for that one.
>>> I don’t like the Touch Bar so I will get the 14 inch one which also has a 
>>> sd card reader.
>>> /A
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 5 feb. 2022 kl. 15:33 skrev Brad Snyder >> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>>:
>>>  
>>> The MacBook Air has never had a TouchBar.
>>>  
>>> The higher-end 14” and 16” MacBook Pros do not have the TouchBar.
>>> Only the lower-end 13” MacBook Pro still has the TouchBar, for now.
>>> It is rumored that the current low-end 13” MacBook Pro will be replaced 
>>> with a newer 14” model, that will not have a TouchBar.
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> On Feb 5, 2022, at 08:04, Janet Ingber >> <mailto:janet.ing...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>  
>>> Good Morning,
>>> I have an M1 Air and it does not have a touch bar.
>>> Janet
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Feb 5, 2022, at 8:42 AM, Anders Holmberg >> <mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> Has all the MacBook pro’s with m1 chip the Touch Bar or is it just some of 
>>> them?
>>> Blessings.
>>> /A
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@cara

Re: MacBook Pro m1.

[Les Kriegler]

Hi Donna,

I couldn’t agree more with your comments. It would be nice to have at least one 
extra port. And you were right, it would also be helpful to have one on each 
side. Having said that. I am on a 16 day trip and I love having the year with 
me. It is as they say, as light as air. Just a great machine.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 5, 2022, at 6:35 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> That was smart, Jason.  When I bought my M1, I switched from an MBP back to 
> an MBA.  I’m happy with the Air in every way except for the two USB ports.  
> The thing I dislike the most about that setup is that both ports are on the 
> same side of the Mac, which makes it awkward to use them both at the same 
> time.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> 
>> On Feb 5, 2022, at 10:31 AM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I skipped all of the models that had a touch bar – but not for that reason. 
>> I waited for Apple’s new ARM-based architecture, then I decided to wait for 
>> a model with more than two USB ports, and finally bought a 14-inch MacBook 
>> Pro.
>>  
>> Over-all, I’m glad it has function keys.
>>  
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  on 
>> behalf of Brad Snyder 
>> Date: Saturday, 5February, 2022 at 10:29
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Subject: Re: MacBook Pro m1.
>> 
>> The TouchBar is really irrelevant, and not a problem for VoiceOver users.
>>  
>> You can perform any VoiceOver command that uses F-keys, by holding down the 
>> VO modifier along with the Fn key, and then pressing a key on the NumberRow 
>> that corresponds with the F-key for the desired VO command.
>> For example, pressing Fn + VO + NumberRow 1, will result in VoiceOver 
>> speaking the current application.  Pressing Fn + VO + NumberRow 8, will open 
>> the VoiceOver Utility, and so on and so forth.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> On Feb 5, 2022, at 08:45, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>>  
>> Hi!
>> Ok, thanks for that one.
>> I don’t like the Touch Bar so I will get the 14 inch one which also has a sd 
>> card reader.
>> /A
>> 
>> 
>> 5 feb. 2022 kl. 15:33 skrev Brad Snyder :
>>  
>> The MacBook Air has never had a TouchBar.
>>  
>> The higher-end 14” and 16” MacBook Pros do not have the TouchBar.
>> Only the lower-end 13” MacBook Pro still has the TouchBar, for now.
>> It is rumored that the current low-end 13” MacBook Pro will be replaced with 
>> a newer 14” model, that will not have a TouchBar.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> On Feb 5, 2022, at 08:04, Janet Ingber  wrote:
>>  
>> Good Morning,
>> I have an M1 Air and it does not have a touch bar.
>> Janet
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 5, 2022, at 8:42 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> Has all the MacBook pro’s with m1 chip the Touch Bar or is it just some of 
>> them?
>> Blessings.
>> /A
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/CC56ADC4-B782-41F6-9530-DCDDAF1B322D%40pipkrokodil.se.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach 

Re: MacBook Pro m1.

['Mervin Keck III' via MacVisionaries]

I love my Touch Bar. I use it as often as I can for as many things as I can. I 
have the M1 MBP and it performs well with the Touch Bar.
Merv


> On Feb 5, 2022, at 12:16 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> I don't like the TouchBar either. That's why I traded my 2019 MacBook Pro for 
> one of the new 14 inch MacBook Pros.
> Not only does the new 14 and 16 inch MacBook Pros no longer have a TouchBar, 
> the keyboard is vastly improved, and also has inverted-T arrow keys.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> On Feb 5, 2022, at 09:43, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> I know that but its just that I don’t like it.
> I really need the sd card device also even though I could buy a hub with one.
> /A
> 
>> 5 feb. 2022 kl. 16:29 skrev Brad Snyder > <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>>:
>> 
>> The TouchBar is really irrelevant, and not a problem for VoiceOver users.
>> 
>> You can perform any VoiceOver command that uses F-keys, by holding down the 
>> VO modifier along with the Fn key, and then pressing a key on the NumberRow 
>> that corresponds with the F-key for the desired VO command.
>> For example, pressing Fn + VO + NumberRow 1, will result in VoiceOver 
>> speaking the current application.  Pressing Fn + VO + NumberRow 8, will open 
>> the VoiceOver Utility, and so on and so forth.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 5, 2022, at 08:45, Anders Holmberg > <mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> Ok, thanks for that one.
>> I don’t like the Touch Bar so I will get the 14 inch one which also has a sd 
>> card reader.
>> /A
>> 
>>> 5 feb. 2022 kl. 15:33 skrev Brad Snyder >> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>>:
>>> 
>>> The MacBook Air has never had a TouchBar.
>>> 
>>> The higher-end 14” and 16” MacBook Pros do not have the TouchBar.
>>> Only the lower-end 13” MacBook Pro still has the TouchBar, for now.
>>> It is rumored that the current low-end 13” MacBook Pro will be replaced 
>>> with a newer 14” model, that will not have a TouchBar.
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Feb 5, 2022, at 08:04, Janet Ingber >> <mailto:janet.ing...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Good Morning,
>>> I have an M1 Air and it does not have a touch bar.
>>> Janet
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 5, 2022, at 8:42 AM, Anders Holmberg >>> <mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi!
>>>> Has all the MacBook pro’s with m1 chip the Touch Bar or is it just some of 
>>>> them?
>>>> Blessings.
>>>> /A
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>> 
>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>> 
>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
>>>> 
>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>
>>>> --- 
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/CC56ADC4-B782-41F6-9530-DCDDAF1B322D%40pipkrokodil.se
>>>>  
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/CC56ADC4-B782-41F6-9530-DCDDAF1B322D%40pipkrokodil.se>.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please cont

Re: MacBook Pro m1.

[Brad Snyder]

I don't like the TouchBar either. That's why I traded my 2019 MacBook Pro for 
one of the new 14 inch MacBook Pros.
Not only does the new 14 and 16 inch MacBook Pros no longer have a TouchBar, 
the keyboard is vastly improved, and also has inverted-T arrow keys.

- Brad -

On Feb 5, 2022, at 09:43, Anders Holmberg  wrote:

Hi!
I know that but its just that I don’t like it.
I really need the sd card device also even though I could buy a hub with one.
/A

> 5 feb. 2022 kl. 16:29 skrev Brad Snyder :
> 
> The TouchBar is really irrelevant, and not a problem for VoiceOver users.
> 
> You can perform any VoiceOver command that uses F-keys, by holding down the 
> VO modifier along with the Fn key, and then pressing a key on the NumberRow 
> that corresponds with the F-key for the desired VO command.
> For example, pressing Fn + VO + NumberRow 1, will result in VoiceOver 
> speaking the current application.  Pressing Fn + VO + NumberRow 8, will open 
> the VoiceOver Utility, and so on and so forth.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 5, 2022, at 08:45, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Ok, thanks for that one.
> I don’t like the Touch Bar so I will get the 14 inch one which also has a sd 
> card reader.
> /A
> 
>> 5 feb. 2022 kl. 15:33 skrev Brad Snyder :
>> 
>> The MacBook Air has never had a TouchBar.
>> 
>> The higher-end 14” and 16” MacBook Pros do not have the TouchBar.
>> Only the lower-end 13” MacBook Pro still has the TouchBar, for now.
>> It is rumored that the current low-end 13” MacBook Pro will be replaced with 
>> a newer 14” model, that will not have a TouchBar.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 5, 2022, at 08:04, Janet Ingber  wrote:
>> 
>> Good Morning,
>> I have an M1 Air and it does not have a touch bar.
>> Janet
>> 
>>> On Feb 5, 2022, at 8:42 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> Has all the MacBook pro’s with m1 chip the Touch Bar or is it just some of 
>>> them?
>>> Blessings.
>>> /A
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/CC56ADC4-B782-41F6-9530-DCDDAF1B322D%40pipkrokodil.se.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/FC4D99F0-9931-4A0C-A73C-265F43344CEC%40gmail.com.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>  
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderat

Re: MacBook Pro m1.

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

That was smart, Jason.  When I bought my M1, I switched from an MBP back to an 
MBA.  I’m happy with the Air in every way except for the two USB ports.  The 
thing I dislike the most about that setup is that both ports are on the same 
side of the Mac, which makes it awkward to use them both at the same time.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Feb 5, 2022, at 10:31 AM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I skipped all of the models that had a touch bar – but not for that reason. I 
> waited for Apple’s new ARM-based architecture, then I decided to wait for a 
> model with more than two USB ports, and finally bought a 14-inch MacBook Pro.
>  
> Over-all, I’m glad it has function keys.
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>  <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> on behalf of Brad Snyder 
> mailto:wb...@swbell.net>>
> Date: Saturday, 5February, 2022 at 10:29
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
> Subject: Re: MacBook Pro m1.
> 
> The TouchBar is really irrelevant, and not a problem for VoiceOver users.
>  
> You can perform any VoiceOver command that uses F-keys, by holding down the 
> VO modifier along with the Fn key, and then pressing a key on the NumberRow 
> that corresponds with the F-key for the desired VO command.
> For example, pressing Fn + VO + NumberRow 1, will result in VoiceOver 
> speaking the current application.  Pressing Fn + VO + NumberRow 8, will open 
> the VoiceOver Utility, and so on and so forth.
> 
> - Brad -
>  
>  
>  
>  
> On Feb 5, 2022, at 08:45, Anders Holmberg  <mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>  
> Hi!
> Ok, thanks for that one.
> I don’t like the Touch Bar so I will get the 14 inch one which also has a sd 
> card reader.
> /A
> 
> 
> 5 feb. 2022 kl. 15:33 skrev Brad Snyder  <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>>:
>  
> The MacBook Air has never had a TouchBar.
>  
> The higher-end 14” and 16” MacBook Pros do not have the TouchBar.
> Only the lower-end 13” MacBook Pro still has the TouchBar, for now.
> It is rumored that the current low-end 13” MacBook Pro will be replaced with 
> a newer 14” model, that will not have a TouchBar.
> 
> - Brad -
>  
>  
>  
>  
> On Feb 5, 2022, at 08:04, Janet Ingber  <mailto:janet.ing...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>  
> Good Morning,
> I have an M1 Air and it does not have a touch bar.
> Janet
> 
> 
> On Feb 5, 2022, at 8:42 AM, Anders Holmberg  <mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Has all the MacBook pro’s with m1 chip the Touch Bar or is it just some of 
> them?
> Blessings.
> /A
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/CC56ADC4-B782-41F6-9530-DCDDAF1B322D%40pipkrokodil.se
>  
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/CC56ADC4-B782-41F6-9530-DCDDAF1B322D%40pipkrokodil.se>.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched

Re: MacBook Pro m1.

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

I skipped all of the models that had a touch bar – but not for that reason. I 
waited for Apple’s new ARM-based architecture, then I decided to wait for a 
model with more than two USB ports, and finally bought a 14-inch MacBook Pro.

Over-all, I’m glad it has function keys.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  on 
behalf of Brad Snyder 
Date: Saturday, 5February, 2022 at 10:29
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: MacBook Pro m1.
The TouchBar is really irrelevant, and not a problem for VoiceOver users.

You can perform any VoiceOver command that uses F-keys, by holding down the VO 
modifier along with the Fn key, and then pressing a key on the NumberRow that 
corresponds with the F-key for the desired VO command.
For example, pressing Fn + VO + NumberRow 1, will result in VoiceOver speaking 
the current application.  Pressing Fn + VO + NumberRow 8, will open the 
VoiceOver Utility, and so on and so forth.

- Brad -




On Feb 5, 2022, at 08:45, Anders Holmberg 
mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:

Hi!
Ok, thanks for that one.
I don’t like the Touch Bar so I will get the 14 inch one which also has a sd 
card reader.
/A


5 feb. 2022 kl. 15:33 skrev Brad Snyder 
mailto:wb...@swbell.net>>:

The MacBook Air has never had a TouchBar.

The higher-end 14” and 16” MacBook Pros do not have the TouchBar.
Only the lower-end 13” MacBook Pro still has the TouchBar, for now.
It is rumored that the current low-end 13” MacBook Pro will be replaced with a 
newer 14” model, that will not have a TouchBar.

- Brad -




On Feb 5, 2022, at 08:04, Janet Ingber 
mailto:janet.ing...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Good Morning,
I have an M1 Air and it does not have a touch bar.
Janet


On Feb 5, 2022, at 8:42 AM, Anders Holmberg 
mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:

Hi!
Has all the MacBook pro’s with m1 chip the Touch Bar or is it just some of them?
Blessings.
/A

--
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Re: MacBook Pro m1.

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

I’m with you, Anders.  I now have an M1 MacBook Air, and I don’t miss the Touch 
Bar at all.  It was an interesting concept, and I liked the way it was 
contextualized.  But overall I thought it was more cumbersome to use.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Feb 5, 2022, at 9:43 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> I know that but its just that I don’t like it.
> I really need the sd card device also even though I could buy a hub with one.
> /A
> 
>> 5 feb. 2022 kl. 16:29 skrev Brad Snyder > <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>>:
>> 
>> The TouchBar is really irrelevant, and not a problem for VoiceOver users.
>> 
>> You can perform any VoiceOver command that uses F-keys, by holding down the 
>> VO modifier along with the Fn key, and then pressing a key on the NumberRow 
>> that corresponds with the F-key for the desired VO command.
>> For example, pressing Fn + VO + NumberRow 1, will result in VoiceOver 
>> speaking the current application.  Pressing Fn + VO + NumberRow 8, will open 
>> the VoiceOver Utility, and so on and so forth.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 5, 2022, at 08:45, Anders Holmberg > <mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> Ok, thanks for that one.
>> I don’t like the Touch Bar so I will get the 14 inch one which also has a sd 
>> card reader.
>> /A
>> 
>>> 5 feb. 2022 kl. 15:33 skrev Brad Snyder >> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>>:
>>> 
>>> The MacBook Air has never had a TouchBar.
>>> 
>>> The higher-end 14” and 16” MacBook Pros do not have the TouchBar.
>>> Only the lower-end 13” MacBook Pro still has the TouchBar, for now.
>>> It is rumored that the current low-end 13” MacBook Pro will be replaced 
>>> with a newer 14” model, that will not have a TouchBar.
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Feb 5, 2022, at 08:04, Janet Ingber >> <mailto:janet.ing...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Good Morning,
>>> I have an M1 Air and it does not have a touch bar.
>>> Janet
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 5, 2022, at 8:42 AM, Anders Holmberg >>> <mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi!
>>>> Has all the MacBook pro’s with m1 chip the Touch Bar or is it just some of 
>>>> them?
>>>> Blessings.
>>>> /A
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>> 
>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>> 
>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
>>>> 
>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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>>>>  
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/CC56ADC4-B782-41F6-9530-DCDDAF1B322D%40pipkrokodil.se>.
>>> 
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Re: MacBook Pro m1.

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
I know that but its just that I don’t like it.
I really need the sd card device also even though I could buy a hub with one.
/A

> 5 feb. 2022 kl. 16:29 skrev Brad Snyder :
> 
> The TouchBar is really irrelevant, and not a problem for VoiceOver users.
> 
> You can perform any VoiceOver command that uses F-keys, by holding down the 
> VO modifier along with the Fn key, and then pressing a key on the NumberRow 
> that corresponds with the F-key for the desired VO command.
> For example, pressing Fn + VO + NumberRow 1, will result in VoiceOver 
> speaking the current application.  Pressing Fn + VO + NumberRow 8, will open 
> the VoiceOver Utility, and so on and so forth.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 5, 2022, at 08:45, Anders Holmberg  <mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Ok, thanks for that one.
> I don’t like the Touch Bar so I will get the 14 inch one which also has a sd 
> card reader.
> /A
> 
>> 5 feb. 2022 kl. 15:33 skrev Brad Snyder > <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>>:
>> 
>> The MacBook Air has never had a TouchBar.
>> 
>> The higher-end 14” and 16” MacBook Pros do not have the TouchBar.
>> Only the lower-end 13” MacBook Pro still has the TouchBar, for now.
>> It is rumored that the current low-end 13” MacBook Pro will be replaced with 
>> a newer 14” model, that will not have a TouchBar.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 5, 2022, at 08:04, Janet Ingber > <mailto:janet.ing...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Good Morning,
>> I have an M1 Air and it does not have a touch bar.
>> Janet
>> 
>>> On Feb 5, 2022, at 8:42 AM, Anders Holmberg >> <mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> Has all the MacBook pro’s with m1 chip the Touch Bar or is it just some of 
>>> them?
>>> Blessings.
>>> /A
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
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>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>
>>> --- 
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>>>  
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/CC56ADC4-B782-41F6-9530-DCDDAF1B322D%40pipkrokodil.se>.
>> 
>> -- 
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>> 
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>> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
>> 
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>> https://groups.

Re: MacBook Pro m1.

[Brad Snyder]

The TouchBar is really irrelevant, and not a problem for VoiceOver users.

You can perform any VoiceOver command that uses F-keys, by holding down the VO 
modifier along with the Fn key, and then pressing a key on the NumberRow that 
corresponds with the F-key for the desired VO command.
For example, pressing Fn + VO + NumberRow 1, will result in VoiceOver speaking 
the current application.  Pressing Fn + VO + NumberRow 8, will open the 
VoiceOver Utility, and so on and so forth.

- Brad -




On Feb 5, 2022, at 08:45, Anders Holmberg  wrote:

Hi!
Ok, thanks for that one.
I don’t like the Touch Bar so I will get the 14 inch one which also has a sd 
card reader.
/A

> 5 feb. 2022 kl. 15:33 skrev Brad Snyder  <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>>:
> 
> The MacBook Air has never had a TouchBar.
> 
> The higher-end 14” and 16” MacBook Pros do not have the TouchBar.
> Only the lower-end 13” MacBook Pro still has the TouchBar, for now.
> It is rumored that the current low-end 13” MacBook Pro will be replaced with 
> a newer 14” model, that will not have a TouchBar.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 5, 2022, at 08:04, Janet Ingber  <mailto:janet.ing...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Good Morning,
> I have an M1 Air and it does not have a touch bar.
> Janet
> 
>> On Feb 5, 2022, at 8:42 AM, Anders Holmberg > <mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> Has all the MacBook pro’s with m1 chip the Touch Bar or is it just some of 
>> them?
>> Blessings.
>> /A
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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>>  
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/CC56ADC4-B782-41F6-9530-DCDDAF1B322D%40pipkrokodil.se>.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
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> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
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> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
> 
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Re: MacBook Pro m1.

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Ok, thanks for that one.
I don’t like the Touch Bar so I will get the 14 inch one which also has a sd 
card reader.
/A

> 5 feb. 2022 kl. 15:33 skrev Brad Snyder :
> 
> The MacBook Air has never had a TouchBar.
> 
> The higher-end 14” and 16” MacBook Pros do not have the TouchBar.
> Only the lower-end 13” MacBook Pro still has the TouchBar, for now.
> It is rumored that the current low-end 13” MacBook Pro will be replaced with 
> a newer 14” model, that will not have a TouchBar.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 5, 2022, at 08:04, Janet Ingber  <mailto:janet.ing...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Good Morning,
> I have an M1 Air and it does not have a touch bar.
> Janet
> 
>> On Feb 5, 2022, at 8:42 AM, Anders Holmberg > <mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> Has all the MacBook pro’s with m1 chip the Touch Bar or is it just some of 
>> them?
>> Blessings.
>> /A
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>
>> --- 
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> 
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The following information is impor

Re: MacBook Pro m1.

[Brad Snyder]

The MacBook Air has never had a TouchBar.

The higher-end 14” and 16” MacBook Pros do not have the TouchBar.
Only the lower-end 13” MacBook Pro still has the TouchBar, for now.
It is rumored that the current low-end 13” MacBook Pro will be replaced with a 
newer 14” model, that will not have a TouchBar.

- Brad -




On Feb 5, 2022, at 08:04, Janet Ingber  wrote:

Good Morning,
I have an M1 Air and it does not have a touch bar.
Janet

> On Feb 5, 2022, at 8:42 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Has all the MacBook pro’s with m1 chip the Touch Bar or is it just some of 
> them?
> Blessings.
> /A
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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> 
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> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: MacBook Pro m1.

[Janet Ingber]

Good Morning,
I have an M1 Air and it does not have a touch bar.
Janet

> On Feb 5, 2022, at 8:42 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Has all the MacBook pro’s with m1 chip the Touch Bar or is it just some of 
> them?
> Blessings.
> /A
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
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> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
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MacBook Pro m1.

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Has all the MacBook pro’s with m1 chip the Touch Bar or is it just some of them?
Blessings.
/A

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caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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RE: Request for help in deciding between Intel based and and one MacBook Pro

[Rebecca Skipper]

I used to be one of those who wanted to run Windows on a Mac, but now I am 
comfortable with the idea of using both operating systems because both have 
something to offer.


-Original Message-
From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2022 11:51 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Request for help in deciding between Intel based and and one 
MacBook Pro

Unless you want to also run Windows on your Mac, i.e. in a virtual machine, I'd 
definitely go for some version of the M1 currently on offer. Or, wait to see 
what's released in a few months--which is what I'm doing myself.

My current laptop is an 11 inch model Mac Air. I doubt Apple will again release 
a model that small, but until we see what they release, we won't know for sure. 
My personal preference in laptops, since I can't use the screen at all, is the 
smallest model physically, loaded up with as much RAM as it will support, and 
preferably also as much disk as it will support.

Best,

Janina

Mike Arrigo writes:
> I have never used an M1 mac but I know Apple is phasing out the Intel 
> processors so if they got an Intel mac they would be buying in to a 
> technology that Apple is phasing out.
> 
> > On Jan 20, 2022, at 12:15 PM, muhammad babar Shahzad 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Hello friends,
> > As per the subject line, I request you to kindly let me know whether my 
> > friend who is going to transition from Windows to Mac should  acquire an 
> > Intel based machine or the M1? They need to use it for university studies. 
> > I would highly appreciate if anyone could kindly share their experience of 
> > transitioning from Windows to Mac for university studies.
> > Thank you very much in advance.
> > Regards, Mohammed Babar Shahzad.
> > 
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Re: Request for help in deciding between Intel based and and one MacBook Pro

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Unless you want to also run Windows on your Mac, i.e. in a virtual
machine, I'd definitely go for some version of the M1 currently on
offer. Or, wait to see what's released in a few months--which is what
I'm doing myself.

My current laptop is an 11 inch model Mac Air. I doubt Apple will again
release a model that small, but until we see what they release, we won't
know for sure. My personal preference in laptops, since I can't use the
screen at all, is the smallest model physically, loaded up with as much
RAM as it will support, and preferably also as much disk as it will
support.

Best,

Janina

Mike Arrigo writes:
> I have never used an M1 mac but I know Apple is phasing out the Intel 
> processors so if they got an Intel mac they would be buying in to a 
> technology that Apple is phasing out.
> 
> > On Jan 20, 2022, at 12:15 PM, muhammad babar Shahzad 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Hello friends,
> > As per the subject line, I request you to kindly let me know whether my 
> > friend who is going to transition from Windows to Mac should  acquire an 
> > Intel based machine or the M1? They need to use it for university studies. 
> > I would highly appreciate if anyone could kindly share their experience of 
> > transitioning from Windows to Mac for university studies.
> > Thank you very much in advance.
> > Regards, Mohammed Babar Shahzad.
> > 
> > -- 
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Re: Request for help in deciding between Intel based and and one MacBook Pro

[muhammad babar Shahzad]

Thank you very much for the suggestions and informative discussion about the m1 
Mac book. I am in a better position to  help my friend understand the various 
possibilities of using the modern technology.
Once again Thank you very much everyone.
Regards,
Muhammad Babar.


> On 21 Jan 2022, at 10:08 am, Muhammad Fayed  wrote:
> 
> According to the thread, your friend does not require quiet specialized 
> software. PDF reading, MS Word editing, Web browsing is highly accessible. 
> You may depend entirely on Apple iWord apps e.g. Pages (MS Word equivalent), 
> Keynote (MS Powerpoint). As Rebecca mentioned, you can import and export MS 
> files. 
> 
> I hear that the new feature of  OCR capabilities of Mac OS 12 is very 
> good, but I haven’t heard a comparison to windows equivalent.
> 
> Most probably, you won’t need Windows any more because of the basic usage, 
> but you need to search whether they use specialized software in their career 
> although I don’t imagine a one. So, you may safely ignore Windows and Intel 
> based Macs.
> 
> I have 2016 15” MacBook Pro, it lags a little with Voiceover when "Voice is 
> automatically selected based on language”. So, I won’t recommend Intel based 
> Mac since its performance may degrade soon with upcoming software updates. As 
> a blind user, I prefer to have the most recent advances in accessibility 
> technologies to enjoy latest features that could make my life much easier.
> 
> M1 vs M1 Pro/Max, this basic usage does not require much capabilities. So, M1 
> is very fine, but I would recommend 16GB RAM to avoid storage issues on the 
> long run.
> 
> Hope it helps,
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mohamed E. Fayed 
> 
>> On 20 Jan 2022, at 8:15 PM, muhammad babar Shahzad  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello friends,
>> As per the subject line, I request you to kindly let me know whether my 
>> friend who is going to transition from Windows to Mac should  acquire an 
>> Intel based machine or the M1? They need to use it for university studies. I 
>> would highly appreciate if anyone could kindly share their experience of 
>> transitioning from Windows to Mac for university studies.
>> Thank you very much in advance.
>> Regards, Mohammed Babar Shahzad.
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
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>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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Re: Request for help in deciding between Intel based and and one MacBook Pro

[Muhammad Fayed]

According to the thread, your friend does not require quiet specialized 
software. PDF reading, MS Word editing, Web browsing is highly accessible. You 
may depend entirely on Apple iWord apps e.g. Pages (MS Word equivalent), 
Keynote (MS Powerpoint). As Rebecca mentioned, you can import and export MS 
files. 

I hear that the new feature of  OCR capabilities of Mac OS 12 is very good, 
but I haven’t heard a comparison to windows equivalent.

Most probably, you won’t need Windows any more because of the basic usage, but 
you need to search whether they use specialized software in their career 
although I don’t imagine a one. So, you may safely ignore Windows and Intel 
based Macs.

I have 2016 15” MacBook Pro, it lags a little with Voiceover when "Voice is 
automatically selected based on language”. So, I won’t recommend Intel based 
Mac since its performance may degrade soon with upcoming software updates. As a 
blind user, I prefer to have the most recent advances in accessibility 
technologies to enjoy latest features that could make my life much easier.

M1 vs M1 Pro/Max, this basic usage does not require much capabilities. So, M1 
is very fine, but I would recommend 16GB RAM to avoid storage issues on the 
long run.

Hope it helps,

Regards,

Mohamed E. Fayed 

> On 20 Jan 2022, at 8:15 PM, muhammad babar Shahzad  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello friends,
> As per the subject line, I request you to kindly let me know whether my 
> friend who is going to transition from Windows to Mac should  acquire an 
> Intel based machine or the M1? They need to use it for university studies. I 
> would highly appreciate if anyone could kindly share their experience of 
> transitioning from Windows to Mac for university studies.
> Thank you very much in advance.
> Regards, Mohammed Babar Shahzad.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
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> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
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> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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RE: Request for help in deciding between Intel based and and one MacBook Pro

[Rebecca Skipper]

Hi,
The M1 Mac is the better option, and your friend will be able to import MS
Word files into Pages and export the Pages file back to Word.
PDF files can be read in Preview.
Is your friend using voiceover?
Though I have not tried this, I've heard that parallel isn't very accessible 
with a screen reader.
Your friend should be able to use Safari, Google Chrome, and Firefox on the Mac.
As long as the site interface meets WCAG requirements then thing should be fine 
though it would be helpful to have multiple browsers on hand.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of muhammad babar Shahzad
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 9:11 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Request for help in deciding between Intel based and and one 
MacBook Pro

Hi,
Friends, I'm highly thankful to you for your enriching and informative 
suggestions. I think the M1 based Mac will be a more viable option for them. My 
friend is studying International Relations and will possibly need to use a word 
processor, consult the university’s online learning portal/electronic library, 
and go through the readings in either .dox or PDF format.
If and when required, they can also install windows as a virtual machine.
Once again, thank you so much.
Regards,
Mohammed Babar.
> On 21 Jan 2022, at 5:33 am, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
> I have never used an M1 mac but I know Apple is phasing out the Intel 
> processors so if they got an Intel mac they would be buying in to a 
> technology that Apple is phasing out.
> 
>> On Jan 20, 2022, at 12:15 PM, muhammad babar Shahzad  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello friends,
>> As per the subject line, I request you to kindly let me know whether my 
>> friend who is going to transition from Windows to Mac should  acquire an 
>> Intel based machine or the M1? They need to use it for university studies. I 
>> would highly appreciate if anyone could kindly share their experience of 
>> transitioning from Windows to Mac for university studies.
>> Thank you very much in advance.
>> Regards, Mohammed Babar Shahzad.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
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>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
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>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Request for help in deciding between Intel based and and one MacBook Pro

[muhammad babar Shahzad]

Hi,
Friends, I'm highly thankful to you for your enriching and informative 
suggestions. I think the M1 based Mac will be a more viable option for them. My 
friend is studying International Relations and will possibly need to use a word 
processor, consult the university’s online learning portal/electronic library, 
and go through the readings in either .dox or PDF format.
If and when required, they can also install windows as a virtual machine.
Once again, thank you so much.
Regards,
Mohammed Babar.
> On 21 Jan 2022, at 5:33 am, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
> I have never used an M1 mac but I know Apple is phasing out the Intel 
> processors so if they got an Intel mac they would be buying in to a 
> technology that Apple is phasing out.
> 
>> On Jan 20, 2022, at 12:15 PM, muhammad babar Shahzad  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello friends,
>> As per the subject line, I request you to kindly let me know whether my 
>> friend who is going to transition from Windows to Mac should  acquire an 
>> Intel based machine or the M1? They need to use it for university studies. I 
>> would highly appreciate if anyone could kindly share their experience of 
>> transitioning from Windows to Mac for university studies.
>> Thank you very much in advance.
>> Regards, Mohammed Babar Shahzad.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
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>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
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>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Request for help in deciding between Intel based and and one MacBook Pro

[Mike Arrigo]

I have never used an M1 mac but I know Apple is phasing out the Intel 
processors so if they got an Intel mac they would be buying in to a technology 
that Apple is phasing out.

> On Jan 20, 2022, at 12:15 PM, muhammad babar Shahzad  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello friends,
> As per the subject line, I request you to kindly let me know whether my 
> friend who is going to transition from Windows to Mac should  acquire an 
> Intel based machine or the M1? They need to use it for university studies. I 
> would highly appreciate if anyone could kindly share their experience of 
> transitioning from Windows to Mac for university studies.
> Thank you very much in advance.
> Regards, Mohammed Babar Shahzad.
> 
> -- 
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Re: Request for help in deciding between Intel based and and one MacBook Pro

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Apple wants control over the hole chain from hardware to software so you should 
go with the m1 or whatever m chip that might come later this year.
I haven’t seen any intel mac’s around in the stores that sells them here in 
Sweden but it might be different in other countries.
I will go with the new m1 MacBook Pro but I don’t know which one.
/A

> 20 jan. 2022 kl. 19:21 skrev Rebecca Skipper :
> 
> I think the most important question to ask is what applications is your 
> friend going to be using.
> Although I am still learning how to use the Mac, you can browse the web, 
> complete assignments in Pages or text edit, and write coding.
> What major is your friend going into?
> If your friend needs Windows then the Intel Mac with Bootcamp might work 
> best, but I would strongly recommend staying with the M1 Macs because I 
> suspect that Intel Macs will lose support after a while.
> My impression is that they are being phased out.
> Right now, I am using Mac and Windows.
> Before your friend makes any changes, please ask about what apps will be used 
> for classes.
> I think either operating system would be appropriate for word processing, 
> email, 
> And web browsing, and I have heard that the mac is preferable for audio 
> production.
> I have found it harder to get apps for the Mac though I have an iPhone as 
> well.
> Hope this helps.
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of muhammad babar Shahzad
> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 1:16 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Request for help in deciding between Intel based and and one MacBook 
> Pro
> 
> Hello friends,
> As per the subject line, I request you to kindly let me know whether my 
> friend who is going to transition from Windows to Mac should  acquire an 
> Intel based machine or the M1? They need to use it for university studies. I 
> would highly appreciate if anyone could kindly share their experience of 
> transitioning from Windows to Mac for university studies.
> Thank you very much in advance.
> Regards, Mohammed Babar Shahzad.
> 
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RE: Request for help in deciding between Intel based and and one MacBook Pro

[Rebecca Skipper]

I think the most important question to ask is what applications is your friend 
going to be using.
Although I am still learning how to use the Mac, you can browse the web, 
complete assignments in Pages or text edit, and write coding.
What major is your friend going into?
If your friend needs Windows then the Intel Mac with Bootcamp might work best, 
but I would strongly recommend staying with the M1 Macs because I suspect that 
Intel Macs will lose support after a while.
My impression is that they are being phased out.
Right now, I am using Mac and Windows.
Before your friend makes any changes, please ask about what apps will be used 
for classes.
I think either operating system would be appropriate for word processing, 
email, 
And web browsing, and I have heard that the mac is preferable for audio 
production.
I have found it harder to get apps for the Mac though I have an iPhone as well.
Hope this helps.
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of muhammad babar Shahzad
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 1:16 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Request for help in deciding between Intel based and and one MacBook 
Pro

Hello friends,
As per the subject line, I request you to kindly let me know whether my friend 
who is going to transition from Windows to Mac should  acquire an Intel based 
machine or the M1? They need to use it for university studies. I would highly 
appreciate if anyone could kindly share their experience of transitioning from 
Windows to Mac for university studies.
Thank you very much in advance.
Regards, Mohammed Babar Shahzad.

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Request for help in deciding between Intel based and and one MacBook Pro

[muhammad babar Shahzad]

Hello friends,
As per the subject line, I request you to kindly let me know whether my friend 
who is going to transition from Windows to Mac should  acquire an Intel based 
machine or the M1? They need to use it for university studies. I would highly 
appreciate if anyone could kindly share their experience of transitioning from 
Windows to Mac for university studies.
Thank you very much in advance.
Regards, Mohammed Babar Shahzad.

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Re: trouble upgrading MacBook Pro 2019 to Monterey

[Brad Snyder]

As said by Roseanne Rosanna Danna, on those early SNL Weekend Updates, "It's 
always something."

- Brad -

On Jan 3, 2022, at 16:09, Raul Gallegos  wrote:

Hello everyone and happy New Year if you celebrate it.


I'm writing to report success! The final fix was completely reformatting the 
hard drive, installing Mohave, and then immediately upgrading to Monterey. I 
had so many things, and thought I had done a recovery, but now that I think of 
it, when I did the recovery, I had done it without reformatting the drive. In 
any case, all is well and my wife is now enjoying this MBP 2019 for her daily 
work. Now, it's onto other customization.


Thanks everyone for your wonderful suggestions.


On 12/27/2021 3:25 PM, matthew dyer wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I w9ould do a clean install consideringg that you are jumping several 
> versions behind.   This should give you a clean install truly.
> 
> Matthew
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 27, 2021, at 10:14 AM, Raul Gallegos  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello everyone, I have recently purchased a MacBook Pro 2019 from someone 
>> who has upgraded to something else. This Mac was reset to all factory 
>> defaults and there are no problems there. It is currently using Mohave and 
>> is running fine. I am trying to upgrade it to the Monterey OS but running 
>> into a snag. After the download is done and I choose to upgrade, the 
>> standard Agree of license terms comes up. I do that, and then it gets stuck 
>> on checking with (null), no percentage. No other windows seem to be open. I 
>> have tried shutting it down and starting over, I have removed the install 
>> icon from the Applications finder folder and re-downloaded the 12 GB size 
>> file, and I have connected and reconnected it to the WiFi. Still, no go. Do 
>> others have ideas of what else I may be able to try? I have not done any 
>> other kind of configuration or customization other than the standard Apple 
>> ID and one Gmail account on it, so if I need to erase it completely and 
>> start all over, no data will get lost.
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks all for any suggestions you may offer.
>> 
>> 
>> /Raul
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
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Re: trouble upgrading MacBook Pro 2019 to Monterey

[Raul Gallegos]

Hello everyone and happy New Year if you celebrate it.


I'm writing to report success! The final fix was completely reformatting 
the hard drive, installing Mohave, and then immediately upgrading to 
Monterey. I had so many things, and thought I had done a recovery, but 
now that I think of it, when I did the recovery, I had done it without 
reformatting the drive. In any case, all is well and my wife is now 
enjoying this MBP 2019 for her daily work. Now, it's onto other 
customization.



Thanks everyone for your wonderful suggestions.


On 12/27/2021 3:25 PM, matthew dyer wrote:

Hi,

I w9ould do a clean install consideringg that you are jumping several versions 
behind.   This should give you a clean install truly.

Matthew




On Dec 27, 2021, at 10:14 AM, Raul Gallegos  wrote:

Hello everyone, I have recently purchased a MacBook Pro 2019 from someone who 
has upgraded to something else. This Mac was reset to all factory defaults and 
there are no problems there. It is currently using Mohave and is running fine. 
I am trying to upgrade it to the Monterey OS but running into a snag. After the 
download is done and I choose to upgrade, the standard Agree of license terms 
comes up. I do that, and then it gets stuck on checking with (null), no 
percentage. No other windows seem to be open. I have tried shutting it down and 
starting over, I have removed the install icon from the Applications finder 
folder and re-downloaded the 12 GB size file, and I have connected and 
reconnected it to the WiFi. Still, no go. Do others have ideas of what else I 
may be able to try? I have not done any other kind of configuration or 
customization other than the standard Apple ID and one Gmail account on it, so 
if I need to erase it completely and start all over, no data will get lost.


Thanks all for any suggestions you may offer.


/Raul


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Re: trouble upgrading MacBook Pro 2019 to Monterey

[Raul Gallegos]

Hi all. Well, still no go. I also thought that it might be some kind of 
authentication prompt. However, trying out FN+VO+1,1 on this MBP 2019 
did not work either. It showed me the available windows to switch into 
and non e were a password prompt. I contacted Apple accessibility and 
the person was equally stumped. He tried directing me to download the OS 
update from the App Store instead of using the Update section from About 
my Mac and that did not work either. he tried having me download an 
earlier OS but it was not found in the App Store either. Brad, if your 
offer of Catalina is still good, let's make that happen and I can try 
this way. The Apple rep got a screen shot of the null screen when the 
update is trying to process and the issue was escalated. So far, I am 
waiting to hear back from them. Maybe this Friday, maybe next week. I 
also found a guide on installing the update using a bootable USB drive, 
but I can't get the Mac to boot from the drive even though I gave it 
what I think are the right terminal commands. The guide I found is from 
this site: 
https://www.cleverfiles.com/howto/clean-install-macos-monterey.html



Meanwhile, things are working fine with Mohave. However, if this mystery 
can be solved, that will be wonderful.




If there are other ideas, please let me know.


On 12/27/2021 6:49 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:

I agree.  This is so obvious, I should have thought of this myself.
/
- Brad -/




On Dec 27, 2021, at 10:59, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:


Hi,

I suspect that it’s asking you to enter your password for the 
computer.  Upgrading from Mojave to Monterey is perfectly normal and 
supported.  If just entering your password then pressing return does 
not get it started, use the Application Chooser, VO-f1-f1, down to 
system Dialogs, and there should be an authentication dialog waiting 
for your attention.


Later…


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Professional Learning Specialist
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada


On Dec 27, 2021, at 09:15, Herbie Allen  wrote:

I was thinking the same thing, although the Apple help page makes it 
sound like you should be able to upgrade directly from Mohave.



On Dec 27, 2021, at 10:08, Brad Snyder  wrote:

I would try updating to macOS Catalina first, and then do the update 
to Monterey.
If you have a problem finding the Catalina installer, contact me off 
list, and I can get it to you.


HTH.

- Brad -

On Dec 27, 2021, at 09:14, Raul Gallegos  wrote:

Hello everyone, I have recently purchased a MacBook Pro 2019 from 
someone who has upgraded to something else. This Mac was reset to 
all factory defaults and there are no problems there. It is 
currently using Mohave and is running fine. I am trying to upgrade 
it to the Monterey OS but running into a snag. After the download is 
done and I choose to upgrade, the standard Agree of license terms 
comes up. I do that, and then it gets stuck on checking with (null), 
no percentage. No other windows seem to be open. I have tried 
shutting it down and starting over, I have removed the install icon 
from the Applications finder folder and re-downloaded the 12 GB size 
file, and I have connected and reconnected it to the WiFi. Still, no 
go. Do others have ideas of what else I may be able to try? I have 
not done any other kind of configuration or customization other than 
the standard Apple ID and one Gmail account on it, so if I need to 
erase it completely and start all over, no data will get lost.



Thanks all for any suggestions you may offer.


/Raul


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Re: trouble upgrading MacBook Pro 2019 to Monterey

[Brad Snyder]

I agree.  This is so obvious, I should have thought of this myself.

- Brad -




On Dec 27, 2021, at 10:59, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi,

I suspect that it’s asking you to enter your password for the computer.  
Upgrading from Mojave to Monterey is perfectly normal and supported.  If just 
entering your password then pressing return does not get it started, use the 
Application Chooser, VO-f1-f1, down to system Dialogs, and there should be an 
authentication dialog waiting for your attention.

Later…


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Professional Learning Specialist
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On Dec 27, 2021, at 09:15, Herbie Allen  <mailto:herbie.al...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> I was thinking the same thing, although the Apple help page makes it sound 
> like you should be able to upgrade directly from Mohave.
> 
>> On Dec 27, 2021, at 10:08, Brad Snyder > <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> I would try updating to macOS Catalina first, and then do the update to 
>> Monterey.
>> If you have a problem finding the Catalina installer, contact me off list, 
>> and I can get it to you.
>> 
>> HTH.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> On Dec 27, 2021, at 09:14, Raul Gallegos > <mailto:r...@raulgallegos.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello everyone, I have recently purchased a MacBook Pro 2019 from someone 
>> who has upgraded to something else. This Mac was reset to all factory 
>> defaults and there are no problems there. It is currently using Mohave and 
>> is running fine. I am trying to upgrade it to the Monterey OS but running 
>> into a snag. After the download is done and I choose to upgrade, the 
>> standard Agree of license terms comes up. I do that, and then it gets stuck 
>> on checking with (null), no percentage. No other windows seem to be open. I 
>> have tried shutting it down and starting over, I have removed the install 
>> icon from the Applications finder folder and re-downloaded the 12 GB size 
>> file, and I have connected and reconnected it to the WiFi. Still, no go. Do 
>> others have ideas of what else I may be able to try? I have not done any 
>> other kind of configuration or customization other than the standard Apple 
>> ID and one Gmail account on it, so if I need to erase it completely and 
>> start all over, no data will get lost.
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks all for any suggestions you may offer.
>> 
>> 
>> /Raul
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
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>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
>> 
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>> 
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Re: trouble upgrading MacBook Pro 2019 to Monterey

[matthew dyer]

Hi,

I w9ould do a clean install consideringg that you are jumping several versions 
behind.   This should give you a clean install truly.

Matthew



> On Dec 27, 2021, at 10:14 AM, Raul Gallegos  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone, I have recently purchased a MacBook Pro 2019 from someone who 
> has upgraded to something else. This Mac was reset to all factory defaults 
> and there are no problems there. It is currently using Mohave and is running 
> fine. I am trying to upgrade it to the Monterey OS but running into a snag. 
> After the download is done and I choose to upgrade, the standard Agree of 
> license terms comes up. I do that, and then it gets stuck on checking with 
> (null), no percentage. No other windows seem to be open. I have tried 
> shutting it down and starting over, I have removed the install icon from the 
> Applications finder folder and re-downloaded the 12 GB size file, and I have 
> connected and reconnected it to the WiFi. Still, no go. Do others have ideas 
> of what else I may be able to try? I have not done any other kind of 
> configuration or customization other than the standard Apple ID and one Gmail 
> account on it, so if I need to erase it completely and start all over, no 
> data will get lost.
> 
> 
> Thanks all for any suggestions you may offer.
> 
> 
> /Raul
> 
> 
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Re: trouble upgrading MacBook Pro 2019 to Monterey

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

I suspect that it’s asking you to enter your password for the computer.  
Upgrading from Mojave to Monterey is perfectly normal and supported.  If just 
entering your password then pressing return does not get it started, use the 
Application Chooser, VO-f1-f1, down to system Dialogs, and there should be an 
authentication dialog waiting for your attention.

Later…


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Professional Learning Specialist
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On Dec 27, 2021, at 09:15, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> I was thinking the same thing, although the Apple help page makes it sound 
> like you should be able to upgrade directly from Mohave.
> 
>> On Dec 27, 2021, at 10:08, Brad Snyder  wrote:
>> 
>> I would try updating to macOS Catalina first, and then do the update to 
>> Monterey.
>> If you have a problem finding the Catalina installer, contact me off list, 
>> and I can get it to you.
>> 
>> HTH.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> On Dec 27, 2021, at 09:14, Raul Gallegos  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello everyone, I have recently purchased a MacBook Pro 2019 from someone 
>> who has upgraded to something else. This Mac was reset to all factory 
>> defaults and there are no problems there. It is currently using Mohave and 
>> is running fine. I am trying to upgrade it to the Monterey OS but running 
>> into a snag. After the download is done and I choose to upgrade, the 
>> standard Agree of license terms comes up. I do that, and then it gets stuck 
>> on checking with (null), no percentage. No other windows seem to be open. I 
>> have tried shutting it down and starting over, I have removed the install 
>> icon from the Applications finder folder and re-downloaded the 12 GB size 
>> file, and I have connected and reconnected it to the WiFi. Still, no go. Do 
>> others have ideas of what else I may be able to try? I have not done any 
>> other kind of configuration or customization other than the standard Apple 
>> ID and one Gmail account on it, so if I need to erase it completely and 
>> start all over, no data will get lost.
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks all for any suggestions you may offer.
>> 
>> 
>> /Raul
>> 
>> 
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Re: trouble upgrading MacBook Pro 2019 to Monterey

[Herbie Allen]

I was thinking the same thing, although the Apple help page makes it sound like 
you should be able to upgrade directly from Mohave.

> On Dec 27, 2021, at 10:08, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> I would try updating to macOS Catalina first, and then do the update to 
> Monterey.
> If you have a problem finding the Catalina installer, contact me off list, 
> and I can get it to you.
> 
> HTH.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> On Dec 27, 2021, at 09:14, Raul Gallegos  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone, I have recently purchased a MacBook Pro 2019 from someone 
> who has upgraded to something else. This Mac was reset to all factory 
> defaults and there are no problems there. It is currently using Mohave and is 
> running fine. I am trying to upgrade it to the Monterey OS but running into a 
> snag. After the download is done and I choose to upgrade, the standard Agree 
> of license terms comes up. I do that, and then it gets stuck on checking with 
> (null), no percentage. No other windows seem to be open. I have tried 
> shutting it down and starting over, I have removed the install icon from the 
> Applications finder folder and re-downloaded the 12 GB size file, and I have 
> connected and reconnected it to the WiFi. Still, no go. Do others have ideas 
> of what else I may be able to try? I have not done any other kind of 
> configuration or customization other than the standard Apple ID and one Gmail 
> account on it, so if I need to erase it completely and start all over, no 
> data will get lost.
> 
> 
> Thanks all for any suggestions you may offer.
> 
> 
> /Raul
> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: trouble upgrading MacBook Pro 2019 to Monterey

[Brad Snyder]

I would try updating to macOS Catalina first, and then do the update to 
Monterey.
If you have a problem finding the Catalina installer, contact me off list, and 
I can get it to you.

HTH.

- Brad -

On Dec 27, 2021, at 09:14, Raul Gallegos  wrote:

Hello everyone, I have recently purchased a MacBook Pro 2019 from someone who 
has upgraded to something else. This Mac was reset to all factory defaults and 
there are no problems there. It is currently using Mohave and is running fine. 
I am trying to upgrade it to the Monterey OS but running into a snag. After the 
download is done and I choose to upgrade, the standard Agree of license terms 
comes up. I do that, and then it gets stuck on checking with (null), no 
percentage. No other windows seem to be open. I have tried shutting it down and 
starting over, I have removed the install icon from the Applications finder 
folder and re-downloaded the 12 GB size file, and I have connected and 
reconnected it to the WiFi. Still, no go. Do others have ideas of what else I 
may be able to try? I have not done any other kind of configuration or 
customization other than the standard Apple ID and one Gmail account on it, so 
if I need to erase it completely and start all over, no data will get lost.


Thanks all for any suggestions you may offer.


/Raul


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trouble upgrading MacBook Pro 2019 to Monterey

[Raul Gallegos]

Hello everyone, I have recently purchased a MacBook Pro 2019 from 
someone who has upgraded to something else. This Mac was reset to all 
factory defaults and there are no problems there. It is currently using 
Mohave and is running fine. I am trying to upgrade it to the Monterey OS 
but running into a snag. After the download is done and I choose to 
upgrade, the standard Agree of license terms comes up. I do that, and 
then it gets stuck on checking with (null), no percentage. No other 
windows seem to be open. I have tried shutting it down and starting 
over, I have removed the install icon from the Applications finder 
folder and re-downloaded the 12 GB size file, and I have connected and 
reconnected it to the WiFi. Still, no go. Do others have ideas of what 
else I may be able to try? I have not done any other kind of 
configuration or customization other than the standard Apple ID and one 
Gmail account on it, so if I need to erase it completely and start all 
over, no data will get lost.



Thanks all for any suggestions you may offer.


/Raul


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Re: Syncing iPhone contacts with MacBook Pro

[Brad Snyder]

Yes, I am familiar with using Google/Gmail contacts on Apple devices.


- Brad -



> On Dec 22, 2021, at 18:05, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> Hello Brad,
> Also, sometimes Gmail accounts have their contacts syncing with your Apple 
> products too. You can look in System Preferences / IOS Settings in the place 
> where you set up email accounts to see if your Gmail account is also 
> providing contact information.
> HTH!
> Jonathan Cohn
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 21, 2021, at 11:04, Michael Busboom > > wrote:
>> 
>> Thank you. I will give this a try.
>> 
>> Greatly appreciated.
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 21.12.2021, at 15:05, Brad Snyder >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> More specifically, you need to go into the Apple ID settings on each 
>>> device, and make sure contacts is selected.
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> On Dec 21, 2021, at 07:54, Dave Carlson >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> You need to set up iCloud so that it synchronizes your contacts on each 
>>> device.
>>> 
>>> Dave Carlson
>>> Woodworker, Oregonian, Farfar, Pioneer, and Engineer
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: Syncing iPhone contacts with MacBook Pro

[Jonathan Cohn]

Hello Brad,
Also, sometimes Gmail accounts have their contacts syncing with your Apple 
products too. You can look in System Preferences / IOS Settings in the place 
where you set up email accounts to see if your Gmail account is also providing 
contact information.
HTH!
Jonathan Cohn



> On Dec 21, 2021, at 11:04, Michael Busboom  wrote:
> 
> Thank you. I will give this a try.
> 
> Greatly appreciated.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 21.12.2021, at 15:05, Brad Snyder > > wrote:
>> 
>> More specifically, you need to go into the Apple ID settings on each device, 
>> and make sure contacts is selected.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> On Dec 21, 2021, at 07:54, Dave Carlson > > wrote:
>> 
>> You need to set up iCloud so that it synchronizes your contacts on each 
>> device.
>> 
>> Dave Carlson
>> Woodworker, Oregonian, Farfar, Pioneer, and Engineer
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: Syncing iPhone contacts with MacBook Pro

[Michael Busboom]

Thank you. I will give this a try.

Greatly appreciated.

Mike




> On 21.12.2021, at 15:05, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> More specifically, you need to go into the Apple ID settings on each device, 
> and make sure contacts is selected.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> On Dec 21, 2021, at 07:54, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> You need to set up iCloud so that it synchronizes your contacts on each 
> device.
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Woodworker, Oregonian, Farfar, Pioneer, and Engineer
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Syncing iPhone contacts with MacBook Pro

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

To clarify, backups are not a method by which various services are synced.  
Backups are just what they claim to be, a backup of your device.  By far, the 
best, and most efficient method of syncing is what both Dave and Brad 
mentioned.  By syncing various services such as Contacts, Safari, Mail etc 
through your Apple ID, you make it so that the same data is available on all 
your devices using the Same Apple ID and with these same services set to sync.  
Of course, for those who do not have reliable data network services, there is 
still the ability to sync manually using the Finder while your device is 
connected via USB, or wirelessly if you’ve configured it.

Nothing is “automatic” unless you configure it to be.

Later…


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Professional Learning Specialist
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On Dec 21, 2021, at 07:05, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> More specifically, you need to go into the Apple ID settings on each device, 
> and make sure contacts is selected.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> On Dec 21, 2021, at 07:54, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> You need to set up iCloud so that it synchronizes your contacts on each 
> device.
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Woodworker, Oregonian, Farfar, Pioneer, and Engineer
> 
> 
> 
> 
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