Re: Not upgrading Macbook Air

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Thanks for letting us know. I'm glad to know Apple knows about it.
Devin Prater

> On Sep 18, 2023, at 9:42 AM, Traci Duncan  wrote:
> 
> Well, color me pleasantly surprised. I contacted Apple Accessibility about 
> upgrading my Mac and the not responding messages I am receiving. They don’t 
> recommend I upgrade my Mac for this issue. They say it is a software issue 
> and will hopefully be addressed.
> 
> I’m pleased and surprised at this response. I would be super disappointed to 
> spend this amount of money on a new machine that I don’t really need. I just 
> want the messages to stop. :-)
> 
> Onto researching ad blockers and the like. I believe someone on this list 
> said that that might help in safari.
> 
> Thank you for all your advice and suggestions. I appreciate it.
> Traci
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Not upgrading Macbook Air

[Traci Duncan]

Well, color me pleasantly surprised. I contacted Apple Accessibility about 
upgrading my Mac and the not responding messages I am receiving. They don’t 
recommend I upgrade my Mac for this issue. They say it is a software issue and 
will hopefully be addressed.

I’m pleased and surprised at this response. I would be super disappointed to 
spend this amount of money on a new machine that I don’t really need. I just 
want the messages to stop. :-)

Onto researching ad blockers and the like. I believe someone on this list said 
that that might help in safari.

Thank you for all your advice and suggestions. I appreciate it.
Traci

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: VOiceOver fluctuating in pitch after upgrading to Ventura

[Mike Arrigo]

Yes, I have noticed this as well.

> On Nov 9, 2022, at 9:29 AM, Dolores Manzino  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I was wondering if anyone was experiencing VoiceOver fluctuating in pitch 
> after updating to Ventura. I am and it’s really frustrating. It goes from low 
> to normal, and switching voices or adjusting pitch and intonation in 
> VoiceOver settings doesn’t seem to solve the problem. Right now the Fiona 
> voice sounds like a man, and it’s worse with Alex. Does anyone have any idea 
> how to solve this? I have an EMail into Apple Accessibility. Thank you for 
> any assistance you can provide.
> 
> Have a great day.
> 
> Dolores
> 
> A cat’s purr is the sweetest sound 
> 
> 
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Re: VOiceOver fluctuating in pitch after upgrading to Ventura

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
I have not have any issues yet but I don’t use Alex because he does not support 
Swedish.
I am beta testing Espeak Right now and it seems not to have that issue either.
/A

> 9 nov. 2022 kl. 17:18 skrev 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
> :
> 
>   Its not been all that easy to get the voices back to what we are used to. I 
> use Alex for both system voice and Voiceover voice. I have not noticed issues 
> with pitch and intonation, but definitely did with the speaking rate.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible
> will make violent revolution inevitable."
> --John F. Kennedy
> My e-Mail:
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 11/9/2022 7:29 AM, Dolores Manzino wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I was wondering if anyone was experiencing VoiceOver fluctuating in pitch 
>> after updating to Ventura. I am and it’s really frustrating. It goes from 
>> low to normal, and switching voices or adjusting pitch and intonation in 
>> VoiceOver settings doesn’t seem to solve the problem. Right now the Fiona 
>> voice sounds like a man, and it’s worse with Alex. Does anyone have any idea 
>> how to solve this? I have an EMail into Apple Accessibility. Thank you for 
>> any assistance you can provide.
>> Have a great day.
>> Dolores
>> A cat’s purr is the sweetest sound
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Re: VOiceOver fluctuating in pitch after upgrading to Ventura

[Dave Carlson]

Had the same problem. I finally think I resolved it by setting the intonation 
of my default voice to 0%.

Dave Carlson

Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Pioneer, and Musician
dgcarlson0...@gmail.com



On Nov 9, 2022, at 7:29 AM, Dolores Manzino  wrote:

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone was experiencing VoiceOver fluctuating in pitch after 
updating to Ventura. I am and it’s really frustrating. It goes from low to 
normal, and switching voices or adjusting pitch and intonation in VoiceOver 
settings doesn’t seem to solve the problem. Right now the Fiona voice sounds 
like a man, and it’s worse with Alex. Does anyone have any idea how to solve 
this? I have an EMail into Apple Accessibility. Thank you for any assistance 
you can provide.

Have a great day.

Dolores

A cat’s purr is the sweetest sound


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Re: VOiceOver fluctuating in pitch after upgrading to Ventura

['E.T.' via MacVisionaries]

   Its not been all that easy to get the voices back to what we are 
used to. I use Alex for both system voice and Voiceover voice. I have 
not noticed issues with pitch and intonation, but definitely did with 
the speaking rate.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible
will make violent revolution inevitable."
 --John F. Kennedy
My e-Mail:
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 11/9/2022 7:29 AM, Dolores Manzino wrote:

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone was experiencing VoiceOver fluctuating in 
pitch after updating to Ventura. I am and it’s really frustrating. It 
goes from low to normal, and switching voices or adjusting pitch and 
intonation in VoiceOver settings doesn’t seem to solve the problem. 
Right now the Fiona voice sounds like a man, and it’s worse with Alex. 
Does anyone have any idea how to solve this? I have an EMail into Apple 
Accessibility. Thank you for any assistance you can provide.


Have a great day.

Dolores

A cat’s purr is the sweetest sound

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Re: VOiceOver fluctuating in pitch after upgrading to Ventura

[Herbie Allen]

Yes. You can change the pitch of the voice at least and she should not sound 
like a man, but the other problems are related to Ventura.

> On Nov 9, 2022, at 09:29, Dolores Manzino  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I was wondering if anyone was experiencing VoiceOver fluctuating in pitch 
> after updating to Ventura. I am and it’s really frustrating. It goes from low 
> to normal, and switching voices or adjusting pitch and intonation in 
> VoiceOver settings doesn’t seem to solve the problem. Right now the Fiona 
> voice sounds like a man, and it’s worse with Alex. Does anyone have any idea 
> how to solve this? I have an EMail into Apple Accessibility. Thank you for 
> any assistance you can provide.
> 
> Have a great day.
> 
> Dolores
> 
> A cat’s purr is the sweetest sound
> 
> 
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VOiceOver fluctuating in pitch after upgrading to Ventura

[Dolores Manzino]

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone was experiencing VoiceOver fluctuating in pitch after 
updating to Ventura. I am and it’s really frustrating. It goes from low to 
normal, and switching voices or adjusting pitch and intonation in VoiceOver 
settings doesn’t seem to solve the problem. Right now the Fiona voice sounds 
like a man, and it’s worse with Alex. Does anyone have any idea how to solve 
this? I have an EMail into Apple Accessibility. Thank you for any assistance 
you can provide.

Have a great day.

Dolores

A cat’s purr is the sweetest sound

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Re: I recommend against upgrading to IOS 16

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

I followed. Herbie’s suggestion, and turned off screen recognition. Since then, 
things have been much better. Direct touch still does not work, but the problem 
I was having with double tapping, not working seems to have worked itself out. 
I also had the issue with the voice resetting. But I let my phone sit and the 
voice switch back within a few minutes.
Cheers,
Donna.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2022, at 6:58 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 14/9/22 15:01, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> Everyone’s mileage may vary, of course, and from what I read on AppleVis, 
>> the usability may vary from one model to another.  FWIW, I have a 12 mini.
> 
> Mine is an iPhone XS. I upgraded on the day of release. Shortly after the 
> upgrade, the voice configuration in VoiceOver was reset to the default (just 
> the voice selection, not the speech rate). I fixed it in the VoiceOver 
> settings.
> 
> I haven't encountered any other bugs or issues so far, and I've been using it 
> significantly since the upgrade.
> 
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Re: I recommend against upgrading to IOS 16

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

On 14/9/22 15:01, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:

Everyone’s mileage may vary, of course, and from what I read on AppleVis, the 
usability may vary from one model to another.  FWIW, I have a 12 mini.


Mine is an iPhone XS. I upgraded on the day of release. Shortly after 
the upgrade, the voice configuration in VoiceOver was reset to the 
default (just the voice selection, not the speech rate). I fixed it in 
the VoiceOver settings.


I haven't encountered any other bugs or issues so far, and I've been 
using it significantly since the upgrade.


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Re: I recommend against upgrading to IOS 16

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Good! :)
Donna


> On Sep 15, 2022, at 12:14 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn  wrote:
> 
> well, it is my understanding that there is a new iOS subversion, waiting for 
> the iPhone 14‘s to come out
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2022, at 12:56 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Well, hopefully it will behave better on the 14 than it does on the 12 mini.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2022, at 11:40 AM, Herbie Allen >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> If getting a 14 then yes, iOS16 will be installed, and I don’t think there 
>>> is any way to roll back the iOs.
>>> 
 On Sep 15, 2022, at 11:38, Kaare Dehard >>> > wrote:
 
 I hope that when you get the new phone that iOS 16 isn’t pre-installed. I 
 have a X R and minimal misbehaving and focus issues have been observed 
 after upgrade. Annoying but nothing that’s been a show-stopper.
 
> On Sep 15, 2022, at 10:58 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  > wrote:
> 
> I have not.  I need to upgrade my phone, so I’m just hanging in there 
> until I get my 14 Pro.
> Donna
> 
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2022, at 9:39 AM, Devin Prater > > wrote:
>> 
>> Anyone having really bad issues, have you tried resetting the phone? I 
>> know, last ditch effort, but it may fix some things and put you at the 
>> point where 16 is usable.
>> Devin Prater
>> r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 9:49 PM 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> > > wrote:
>> Did the latter.  I’ll check to make sure screen recognition is off.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
>> > On Sep 14, 2022, at 8:27 PM, Herbie Allen > > > wrote:
>> > 
>> > Odd, I have not experienced this issue. I have the known bugs with the 
>> > lock screen, but everywhere else works just fine. Make sure Screen 
>> > recognition is off. Also, try turning VO off and then back on.
>> > 
>> >> On Sep 14, 2022, at 20:25, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> >> > >> > wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> No.  I’m experiencing them while in various apps.  One that jumps to 
>> >> mind is Mail.  I frequently have trouble getting mail messages to 
>> >> open.
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> Donna
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 8:23 PM, Herbie Allen > >>> > wrote:
>> >>> 
>> >>> Am I correct in that you are experiencing these double tapping 
>> >>> issues on the lock screen?
>> >>> 
>>  On Sep 14, 2022, at 20:20, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  >  > wrote:
>>  
>>  I’ve never experienced that until this upgrade.  The strange thing 
>>  about all this is that the behavior is very inconsistent.  
>>  Sometimes I’ll double tap and everything’s good.  Other times I can 
>>  double-tap and double-tap forever and nothing happens.
>>  Cheers,
>>  Donna
>>  
>>  
>> > On Sep 14, 2022, at 4:50 PM, Herbie Allen > > > wrote:
>> > 
>> > We have had that issue for a number of years now. What’s 
>> > frustrating is it has not been resolved.
>> > 
>> >> On Sep 14, 2022, at 14:21, Jessica Moss 
>> >> mailto:junglebookfa...@gmail.com>> 
>> >> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> I’ve found this to be an issue as well, along with something 
>> >> strange happening with my phone screen this morning.  I went into 
>> >> my recent contacts, and tried calling back someone who was close 
>> >> to the top of the screen, and ended up calling someone else 
>> >> instead, not realizing what happened.
>> >> Then just to help prevent this from happening again, I decided to 
>> >> go into the more info menu, just to make sure I was calling the 
>> >> right person, and my screen apparently jumped again, and went 
>> >> into information for the wrong contact, and it took about 3 tries 
>> >> for me to select the right one.
>> >> Is anyone else noticing this?
>> >> 
>> >>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 3:01 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> >>> > >>> > wrote:
>> >>> 
>> >>> Hi all,
>> >>> 
>> >>> After approx 24 hours with IOS 16, I have come to the conclusion 
>> >>> that my phone is only marginally usable.  In addition to the 
>> >>> swiping issue previously discussed, I’m also 

Re: I recommend against upgrading to IOS 16

[Jonathan C. Cohn]

well, it is my understanding that there is a new iOS subversion, waiting for the iPhone 14‘s to come outSent from my iPhoneOn Sep 15, 2022, at 12:56 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries  wrote:Well, hopefully it will behave better on the 14 than it does on the 12 mini.Cheers,DonnaOn Sep 15, 2022, at 11:40 AM, Herbie Allen  wrote:If getting a 14 then yes, iOS16 will be installed, and I don’t think there is any way to roll back the iOs.On Sep 15, 2022, at 11:38, Kaare Dehard  wrote:I hope that when you get the new phone that iOS 16 isn’t pre-installed. I have a X R and minimal misbehaving and focus issues have been observed after upgrade. Annoying but nothing that’s been a show-stopper.On Sep 15, 2022, at 10:58 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries  wrote:I have not.  I need to upgrade my phone, so I’m just hanging in there until I get my 14 Pro.DonnaOn Sep 15, 2022, at 9:39 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:Anyone having really bad issues, have you tried resetting the phone? I know, last ditch effort, but it may fix some things and put you at the point where 16 is usable.Devin Praterr.d.t.pra...@gmail.comOn Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 9:49 PM 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries  wrote:Did the latter.  I’ll check to make sure screen recognition is off.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Sep 14, 2022, at 8:27 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> Odd, I have not experienced this issue. I have the known bugs with the lock screen, but everywhere else works just fine. Make sure Screen recognition is off. Also, try turning VO off and then back on.
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 20:25, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries  wrote:
>> 
>> No.  I’m experiencing them while in various apps.  One that jumps to mind is Mail.  I frequently have trouble getting mail messages to open.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 8:23 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Am I correct in that you are experiencing these double tapping issues on the lock screen?
>>> 
 On Sep 14, 2022, at 20:20, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries  wrote:
 
 I’ve never experienced that until this upgrade.  The strange thing about all this is that the behavior is very inconsistent.  Sometimes I’ll double tap and everything’s good.  Other times I can double-tap and double-tap forever and nothing happens.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
 
> On Sep 14, 2022, at 4:50 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> We have had that issue for a number of years now. What’s frustrating is it has not been resolved.
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 14:21, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve found this to be an issue as well, along with something strange happening with my phone screen this morning.  I went into my recent contacts, and tried calling back someone who was close to the top of the screen, and ended up calling someone else instead, not realizing what happened.
>> Then just to help prevent this from happening again, I decided to go into the more info menu, just to make sure I was calling the right person, and my screen apparently jumped again, and went into information for the wrong contact, and it took about 3 tries for me to select the right one.
>> Is anyone else noticing this?
>> 
>>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 3:01 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> After approx 24 hours with IOS 16, I have come to the conclusion that my phone is only marginally usable.  In addition to the swiping issue previously discussed, I’m also finding that often when I tap an icon or a mail message, the item will not open.  Sometimes I can work around this by doing a tap and hold, but other times I cannot.
>>> 
>>> Everyone’s mileage may vary, of course, and from what I read on AppleVis, the usability may vary from one model to another.  FWIW, I have a 12 mini.  However, I wanted to post this to the list, just to warn others that they might be in for a bumpy ride with IOS 16.  Were I you, I would wait, and hope for another release that fixes some of these issues.  This is the worst accessibility experience I’ve ever had with Apple, since getting my first iPhone in 2009.  I’ve actually written Accessibility to ask about downgrading, which I have never done before.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> P.S.  If others have had a better experience, feel free to post and disagree, so that listers can have the most complete information possible when deciding to upgrade.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is 

Re: I recommend against upgrading to IOS 16

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Well, hopefully it will behave better on the 14 than it does on the 12 mini.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Sep 15, 2022, at 11:40 AM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> If getting a 14 then yes, iOS16 will be installed, and I don’t think there is 
> any way to roll back the iOs.
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2022, at 11:38, Kaare Dehard > > wrote:
>> 
>> I hope that when you get the new phone that iOS 16 isn’t pre-installed. I 
>> have a X R and minimal misbehaving and focus issues have been observed after 
>> upgrade. Annoying but nothing that’s been a show-stopper.
>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2022, at 10:58 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have not.  I need to upgrade my phone, so I’m just hanging in there until 
>>> I get my 14 Pro.
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> 
 On Sep 15, 2022, at 9:39 AM, Devin Prater >>> > wrote:
 
 Anyone having really bad issues, have you tried resetting the phone? I 
 know, last ditch effort, but it may fix some things and put you at the 
 point where 16 is usable.
 Devin Prater
 r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com 
 
 
 
 
 On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 9:49 PM 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
 wrote:
 Did the latter.  I’ll check to make sure screen recognition is off.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
 
 > On Sep 14, 2022, at 8:27 PM, Herbie Allen >>> > > wrote:
 > 
 > Odd, I have not experienced this issue. I have the known bugs with the 
 > lock screen, but everywhere else works just fine. Make sure Screen 
 > recognition is off. Also, try turning VO off and then back on.
 > 
 >> On Sep 14, 2022, at 20:25, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 >> >>> >> > wrote:
 >> 
 >> No.  I’m experiencing them while in various apps.  One that jumps to 
 >> mind is Mail.  I frequently have trouble getting mail messages to open.
 >> Cheers,
 >> Donna
 >> 
 >> 
 >>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 8:23 PM, Herbie Allen >>> >>> > wrote:
 >>> 
 >>> Am I correct in that you are experiencing these double tapping issues 
 >>> on the lock screen?
 >>> 
  On Sep 14, 2022, at 20:20, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
  >>>  > wrote:
  
  I’ve never experienced that until this upgrade.  The strange thing 
  about all this is that the behavior is very inconsistent.  Sometimes 
  I’ll double tap and everything’s good.  Other times I can double-tap 
  and double-tap forever and nothing happens.
  Cheers,
  Donna
  
  
 > On Sep 14, 2022, at 4:50 PM, Herbie Allen >>> > > wrote:
 > 
 > We have had that issue for a number of years now. What’s frustrating 
 > is it has not been resolved.
 > 
 >> On Sep 14, 2022, at 14:21, Jessica Moss >>> >> > wrote:
 >> 
 >> I’ve found this to be an issue as well, along with something 
 >> strange happening with my phone screen this morning.  I went into 
 >> my recent contacts, and tried calling back someone who was close to 
 >> the top of the screen, and ended up calling someone else instead, 
 >> not realizing what happened.
 >> Then just to help prevent this from happening again, I decided to 
 >> go into the more info menu, just to make sure I was calling the 
 >> right person, and my screen apparently jumped again, and went into 
 >> information for the wrong contact, and it took about 3 tries for me 
 >> to select the right one.
 >> Is anyone else noticing this?
 >> 
 >>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 3:01 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 >>> >>> >>> > wrote:
 >>> 
 >>> Hi all,
 >>> 
 >>> After approx 24 hours with IOS 16, I have come to the conclusion 
 >>> that my phone is only marginally usable.  In addition to the 
 >>> swiping issue previously discussed, I’m also finding that often 
 >>> when I tap an icon or a mail message, the item will not open.  
 >>> Sometimes I can work around this by doing a tap and hold, but 
 >>> other times I cannot.
 >>> 
 >>> Everyone’s mileage may vary, of course, and from what I read on 
 >>> AppleVis, the usability may vary from one model to another.  FWIW, 
 >>> I have a 12 mini.  However, I wanted to post this to the list, 
 >>> just to warn others that they might be in for a bumpy ride with 
 >>> IOS 16.  Were I you, I would wait, and 

Re: I recommend against upgrading to IOS 16

[Brad Snyder]

Without a doubt, iOS 16 will be installed on all new phones coming out this week.- Brad -On Sep 15, 2022, at 11:38, Kaare Dehard  wrote:I hope that when you get the new phone that iOS 16 isn’t pre-installed. I have a X R and minimal misbehaving and focus issues have been observed after upgrade. Annoying but nothing that’s been a show-stopper.On Sep 15, 2022, at 10:58 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries  wrote:I have not.  I need to upgrade my phone, so I’m just hanging in there until I get my 14 Pro.DonnaOn Sep 15, 2022, at 9:39 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:Anyone having really bad issues, have you tried resetting the phone? I know, last ditch effort, but it may fix some things and put you at the point where 16 is usable.Devin Praterr.d.t.pra...@gmail.comOn Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 9:49 PM 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries  wrote:Did the latter.  I’ll check to make sure screen recognition is off.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Sep 14, 2022, at 8:27 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> Odd, I have not experienced this issue. I have the known bugs with the lock screen, but everywhere else works just fine. Make sure Screen recognition is off. Also, try turning VO off and then back on.
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 20:25, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries  wrote:
>> 
>> No.  I’m experiencing them while in various apps.  One that jumps to mind is Mail.  I frequently have trouble getting mail messages to open.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 8:23 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Am I correct in that you are experiencing these double tapping issues on the lock screen?
>>> 
 On Sep 14, 2022, at 20:20, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries  wrote:
 
 I’ve never experienced that until this upgrade.  The strange thing about all this is that the behavior is very inconsistent.  Sometimes I’ll double tap and everything’s good.  Other times I can double-tap and double-tap forever and nothing happens.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
 
> On Sep 14, 2022, at 4:50 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> We have had that issue for a number of years now. What’s frustrating is it has not been resolved.
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 14:21, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve found this to be an issue as well, along with something strange happening with my phone screen this morning.  I went into my recent contacts, and tried calling back someone who was close to the top of the screen, and ended up calling someone else instead, not realizing what happened.
>> Then just to help prevent this from happening again, I decided to go into the more info menu, just to make sure I was calling the right person, and my screen apparently jumped again, and went into information for the wrong contact, and it took about 3 tries for me to select the right one.
>> Is anyone else noticing this?
>> 
>>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 3:01 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> After approx 24 hours with IOS 16, I have come to the conclusion that my phone is only marginally usable.  In addition to the swiping issue previously discussed, I’m also finding that often when I tap an icon or a mail message, the item will not open.  Sometimes I can work around this by doing a tap and hold, but other times I cannot.
>>> 
>>> Everyone’s mileage may vary, of course, and from what I read on AppleVis, the usability may vary from one model to another.  FWIW, I have a 12 mini.  However, I wanted to post this to the list, just to warn others that they might be in for a bumpy ride with IOS 16.  Were I you, I would wait, and hope for another release that fixes some of these issues.  This is the worst accessibility experience I’ve ever had with Apple, since getting my first iPhone in 2009.  I’ve actually written Accessibility to ask about downgrading, which I have never done before.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> P.S.  If others have had a better experience, feel free to post and disagree, so that listers can have the most complete information possible when deciding to upgrade.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> 

Re: I recommend against upgrading to IOS 16

[Herbie Allen]

If getting a 14 then yes, iOS16 will be installed, and I don’t think there is 
any way to roll back the iOs.

> On Sep 15, 2022, at 11:38, Kaare Dehard  wrote:
> 
> I hope that when you get the new phone that iOS 16 isn’t pre-installed. I 
> have a X R and minimal misbehaving and focus issues have been observed after 
> upgrade. Annoying but nothing that’s been a show-stopper.
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2022, at 10:58 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I have not.  I need to upgrade my phone, so I’m just hanging in there until 
>> I get my 14 Pro.
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2022, at 9:39 AM, Devin Prater >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Anyone having really bad issues, have you tried resetting the phone? I 
>>> know, last ditch effort, but it may fix some things and put you at the 
>>> point where 16 is usable.
>>> Devin Prater
>>> r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 9:49 PM 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> Did the latter.  I’ll check to make sure screen recognition is off.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> 
>>> > On Sep 14, 2022, at 8:27 PM, Herbie Allen >> > > wrote:
>>> > 
>>> > Odd, I have not experienced this issue. I have the known bugs with the 
>>> > lock screen, but everywhere else works just fine. Make sure Screen 
>>> > recognition is off. Also, try turning VO off and then back on.
>>> > 
>>> >> On Sep 14, 2022, at 20:25, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>> >> >> >> > wrote:
>>> >> 
>>> >> No.  I’m experiencing them while in various apps.  One that jumps to 
>>> >> mind is Mail.  I frequently have trouble getting mail messages to open.
>>> >> Cheers,
>>> >> Donna
>>> >> 
>>> >> 
>>> >>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 8:23 PM, Herbie Allen >> >>> > wrote:
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> Am I correct in that you are experiencing these double tapping issues 
>>> >>> on the lock screen?
>>> >>> 
>>>  On Sep 14, 2022, at 20:20, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  >>  > wrote:
>>>  
>>>  I’ve never experienced that until this upgrade.  The strange thing 
>>>  about all this is that the behavior is very inconsistent.  Sometimes 
>>>  I’ll double tap and everything’s good.  Other times I can double-tap 
>>>  and double-tap forever and nothing happens.
>>>  Cheers,
>>>  Donna
>>>  
>>>  
>>> > On Sep 14, 2022, at 4:50 PM, Herbie Allen >> > > wrote:
>>> > 
>>> > We have had that issue for a number of years now. What’s frustrating 
>>> > is it has not been resolved.
>>> > 
>>> >> On Sep 14, 2022, at 14:21, Jessica Moss >> >> > wrote:
>>> >> 
>>> >> I’ve found this to be an issue as well, along with something strange 
>>> >> happening with my phone screen this morning.  I went into my recent 
>>> >> contacts, and tried calling back someone who was close to the top of 
>>> >> the screen, and ended up calling someone else instead, not realizing 
>>> >> what happened.
>>> >> Then just to help prevent this from happening again, I decided to go 
>>> >> into the more info menu, just to make sure I was calling the right 
>>> >> person, and my screen apparently jumped again, and went into 
>>> >> information for the wrong contact, and it took about 3 tries for me 
>>> >> to select the right one.
>>> >> Is anyone else noticing this?
>>> >> 
>>> >>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 3:01 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>> >>> >> >>> > wrote:
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> Hi all,
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> After approx 24 hours with IOS 16, I have come to the conclusion 
>>> >>> that my phone is only marginally usable.  In addition to the 
>>> >>> swiping issue previously discussed, I’m also finding that often 
>>> >>> when I tap an icon or a mail message, the item will not open.  
>>> >>> Sometimes I can work around this by doing a tap and hold, but other 
>>> >>> times I cannot.
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> Everyone’s mileage may vary, of course, and from what I read on 
>>> >>> AppleVis, the usability may vary from one model to another.  FWIW, 
>>> >>> I have a 12 mini.  However, I wanted to post this to the list, just 
>>> >>> to warn others that they might be in for a bumpy ride with IOS 16.  
>>> >>> Were I you, I would wait, and hope for another release that fixes 
>>> >>> some of these issues.  This is the worst accessibility experience 
>>> >>> I’ve ever had with Apple, since getting my first iPhone in 2009.  
>>> >>> I’ve actually written Accessibility to ask about downgrading, which 
>>> >>> I have never 

Re: I recommend against upgrading to IOS 16

[Kaare Dehard]

I hope that when you get the new phone that iOS 16 isn’t pre-installed. I have 
a X R and minimal misbehaving and focus issues have been observed after 
upgrade. Annoying but nothing that’s been a show-stopper.

> On Sep 15, 2022, at 10:58 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have not.  I need to upgrade my phone, so I’m just hanging in there until I 
> get my 14 Pro.
> Donna
> 
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2022, at 9:39 AM, Devin Prater > > wrote:
>> 
>> Anyone having really bad issues, have you tried resetting the phone? I know, 
>> last ditch effort, but it may fix some things and put you at the point where 
>> 16 is usable.
>> Devin Prater
>> r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 9:49 PM 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> Did the latter.  I’ll check to make sure screen recognition is off.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
>> > On Sep 14, 2022, at 8:27 PM, Herbie Allen > > > wrote:
>> > 
>> > Odd, I have not experienced this issue. I have the known bugs with the 
>> > lock screen, but everywhere else works just fine. Make sure Screen 
>> > recognition is off. Also, try turning VO off and then back on.
>> > 
>> >> On Sep 14, 2022, at 20:25, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> >> > >> > wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> No.  I’m experiencing them while in various apps.  One that jumps to mind 
>> >> is Mail.  I frequently have trouble getting mail messages to open.
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> Donna
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 8:23 PM, Herbie Allen > >>> > wrote:
>> >>> 
>> >>> Am I correct in that you are experiencing these double tapping issues on 
>> >>> the lock screen?
>> >>> 
>>  On Sep 14, 2022, at 20:20, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  >  > wrote:
>>  
>>  I’ve never experienced that until this upgrade.  The strange thing 
>>  about all this is that the behavior is very inconsistent.  Sometimes 
>>  I’ll double tap and everything’s good.  Other times I can double-tap 
>>  and double-tap forever and nothing happens.
>>  Cheers,
>>  Donna
>>  
>>  
>> > On Sep 14, 2022, at 4:50 PM, Herbie Allen > > > wrote:
>> > 
>> > We have had that issue for a number of years now. What’s frustrating 
>> > is it has not been resolved.
>> > 
>> >> On Sep 14, 2022, at 14:21, Jessica Moss > >> > wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> I’ve found this to be an issue as well, along with something strange 
>> >> happening with my phone screen this morning.  I went into my recent 
>> >> contacts, and tried calling back someone who was close to the top of 
>> >> the screen, and ended up calling someone else instead, not realizing 
>> >> what happened.
>> >> Then just to help prevent this from happening again, I decided to go 
>> >> into the more info menu, just to make sure I was calling the right 
>> >> person, and my screen apparently jumped again, and went into 
>> >> information for the wrong contact, and it took about 3 tries for me 
>> >> to select the right one.
>> >> Is anyone else noticing this?
>> >> 
>> >>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 3:01 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> >>> > >>> > wrote:
>> >>> 
>> >>> Hi all,
>> >>> 
>> >>> After approx 24 hours with IOS 16, I have come to the conclusion 
>> >>> that my phone is only marginally usable.  In addition to the swiping 
>> >>> issue previously discussed, I’m also finding that often when I tap 
>> >>> an icon or a mail message, the item will not open.  Sometimes I can 
>> >>> work around this by doing a tap and hold, but other times I cannot.
>> >>> 
>> >>> Everyone’s mileage may vary, of course, and from what I read on 
>> >>> AppleVis, the usability may vary from one model to another.  FWIW, I 
>> >>> have a 12 mini.  However, I wanted to post this to the list, just to 
>> >>> warn others that they might be in for a bumpy ride with IOS 16.  
>> >>> Were I you, I would wait, and hope for another release that fixes 
>> >>> some of these issues.  This is the worst accessibility experience 
>> >>> I’ve ever had with Apple, since getting my first iPhone in 2009.  
>> >>> I’ve actually written Accessibility to ask about downgrading, which 
>> >>> I have never done before.
>> >>> Cheers,
>> >>> Donna
>> >>> P.S.  If others have had a better experience, feel free to post and 
>> >>> disagree, so that listers can have the most complete information 
>> >>> possible when deciding to upgrade.
>> >>> 
>> >>> -- 
>> >>> The following information is important for 

Re: I recommend against upgrading to IOS 16

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

I have not.  I need to upgrade my phone, so I’m just hanging in there until I 
get my 14 Pro.
Donna


> On Sep 15, 2022, at 9:39 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
> 
> Anyone having really bad issues, have you tried resetting the phone? I know, 
> last ditch effort, but it may fix some things and put you at the point where 
> 16 is usable.
> Devin Prater
> r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 9:49 PM 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
> Did the latter.  I’ll check to make sure screen recognition is off.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> 
> > On Sep 14, 2022, at 8:27 PM, Herbie Allen  > > wrote:
> > 
> > Odd, I have not experienced this issue. I have the known bugs with the lock 
> > screen, but everywhere else works just fine. Make sure Screen recognition 
> > is off. Also, try turning VO off and then back on.
> > 
> >> On Sep 14, 2022, at 20:25, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
> >> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> >> wrote:
> >> 
> >> No.  I’m experiencing them while in various apps.  One that jumps to mind 
> >> is Mail.  I frequently have trouble getting mail messages to open.
> >> Cheers,
> >> Donna
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 8:23 PM, Herbie Allen  >>> > wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Am I correct in that you are experiencing these double tapping issues on 
> >>> the lock screen?
> >>> 
>  On Sep 14, 2022, at 20:20, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>    > wrote:
>  
>  I’ve never experienced that until this upgrade.  The strange thing about 
>  all this is that the behavior is very inconsistent.  Sometimes I’ll 
>  double tap and everything’s good.  Other times I can double-tap and 
>  double-tap forever and nothing happens.
>  Cheers,
>  Donna
>  
>  
> > On Sep 14, 2022, at 4:50 PM, Herbie Allen  > > wrote:
> > 
> > We have had that issue for a number of years now. What’s frustrating is 
> > it has not been resolved.
> > 
> >> On Sep 14, 2022, at 14:21, Jessica Moss  >> > wrote:
> >> 
> >> I’ve found this to be an issue as well, along with something strange 
> >> happening with my phone screen this morning.  I went into my recent 
> >> contacts, and tried calling back someone who was close to the top of 
> >> the screen, and ended up calling someone else instead, not realizing 
> >> what happened.
> >> Then just to help prevent this from happening again, I decided to go 
> >> into the more info menu, just to make sure I was calling the right 
> >> person, and my screen apparently jumped again, and went into 
> >> information for the wrong contact, and it took about 3 tries for me to 
> >> select the right one.
> >> Is anyone else noticing this?
> >> 
> >>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 3:01 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
> >>>  >>> > wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Hi all,
> >>> 
> >>> After approx 24 hours with IOS 16, I have come to the conclusion that 
> >>> my phone is only marginally usable.  In addition to the swiping issue 
> >>> previously discussed, I’m also finding that often when I tap an icon 
> >>> or a mail message, the item will not open.  Sometimes I can work 
> >>> around this by doing a tap and hold, but other times I cannot.
> >>> 
> >>> Everyone’s mileage may vary, of course, and from what I read on 
> >>> AppleVis, the usability may vary from one model to another.  FWIW, I 
> >>> have a 12 mini.  However, I wanted to post this to the list, just to 
> >>> warn others that they might be in for a bumpy ride with IOS 16.  Were 
> >>> I you, I would wait, and hope for another release that fixes some of 
> >>> these issues.  This is the worst accessibility experience I’ve ever 
> >>> had with Apple, since getting my first iPhone in 2009.  I’ve actually 
> >>> written Accessibility to ask about downgrading, which I have never 
> >>> done before.
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Donna
> >>> P.S.  If others have had a better experience, feel free to post and 
> >>> disagree, so that listers can have the most complete information 
> >>> possible when deciding to upgrade.
> >>> 
> >>> -- 
> >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> >>> Visionaries list.
> >>> 
> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
> >>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
> >>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
> >>> itself.
> >>> 
> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
> >>> mark at:  

Re: I recommend against upgrading to IOS 16

[Devin Prater]

Anyone having really bad issues, have you tried resetting the phone? I
know, last ditch effort, but it may fix some things and put you at the
point where 16 is usable.
Devin Prater
r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com




On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 9:49 PM 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries <
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Did the latter.  I’ll check to make sure screen recognition is off.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>
>
> > On Sep 14, 2022, at 8:27 PM, Herbie Allen 
> wrote:
> >
> > Odd, I have not experienced this issue. I have the known bugs with the
> lock screen, but everywhere else works just fine. Make sure Screen
> recognition is off. Also, try turning VO off and then back on.
> >
> >> On Sep 14, 2022, at 20:25, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries <
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> No.  I’m experiencing them while in various apps.  One that jumps to
> mind is Mail.  I frequently have trouble getting mail messages to open.
> >> Cheers,
> >> Donna
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 8:23 PM, Herbie Allen 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Am I correct in that you are experiencing these double tapping issues
> on the lock screen?
> >>>
>  On Sep 14, 2022, at 20:20, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries <
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> 
>  I’ve never experienced that until this upgrade.  The strange thing
> about all this is that the behavior is very inconsistent.  Sometimes I’ll
> double tap and everything’s good.  Other times I can double-tap and
> double-tap forever and nothing happens.
>  Cheers,
>  Donna
> 
> 
> > On Sep 14, 2022, at 4:50 PM, Herbie Allen 
> wrote:
> >
> > We have had that issue for a number of years now. What’s frustrating
> is it has not been resolved.
> >
> >> On Sep 14, 2022, at 14:21, Jessica Moss 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I’ve found this to be an issue as well, along with something
> strange happening with my phone screen this morning.  I went into my recent
> contacts, and tried calling back someone who was close to the top of the
> screen, and ended up calling someone else instead, not realizing what
> happened.
> >> Then just to help prevent this from happening again, I decided to
> go into the more info menu, just to make sure I was calling the right
> person, and my screen apparently jumped again, and went into information
> for the wrong contact, and it took about 3 tries for me to select the right
> one.
> >> Is anyone else noticing this?
> >>
> >>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 3:01 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries <
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> After approx 24 hours with IOS 16, I have come to the conclusion
> that my phone is only marginally usable.  In addition to the swiping issue
> previously discussed, I’m also finding that often when I tap an icon or a
> mail message, the item will not open.  Sometimes I can work around this by
> doing a tap and hold, but other times I cannot.
> >>>
> >>> Everyone’s mileage may vary, of course, and from what I read on
> AppleVis, the usability may vary from one model to another.  FWIW, I have a
> 12 mini.  However, I wanted to post this to the list, just to warn others
> that they might be in for a bumpy ride with IOS 16.  Were I you, I would
> wait, and hope for another release that fixes some of these issues.  This
> is the worst accessibility experience I’ve ever had with Apple, since
> getting my first iPhone in 2009.  I’ve actually written Accessibility to
> ask about downgrading, which I have never done before.
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Donna
> >>> P.S.  If others have had a better experience, feel free to post
> and disagree, so that listers can have the most complete information
> possible when deciding to upgrade.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> >>>
> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this
> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> >>>
> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach
> mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach
> Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> >>>
> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> >>> ---
> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/8A4E559C-52AC-40A7-A0D1-CAE92BBAFAC2%40me.com
> .
> >>
> >> --
> >> The following information is important for all members of the 

Re: I recommend against upgrading to IOS 16

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Did the latter.  I’ll check to make sure screen recognition is off.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Sep 14, 2022, at 8:27 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> Odd, I have not experienced this issue. I have the known bugs with the lock 
> screen, but everywhere else works just fine. Make sure Screen recognition is 
> off. Also, try turning VO off and then back on.
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 20:25, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> No.  I’m experiencing them while in various apps.  One that jumps to mind is 
>> Mail.  I frequently have trouble getting mail messages to open.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 8:23 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Am I correct in that you are experiencing these double tapping issues on 
>>> the lock screen?
>>> 
 On Sep 14, 2022, at 20:20, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 I’ve never experienced that until this upgrade.  The strange thing about 
 all this is that the behavior is very inconsistent.  Sometimes I’ll double 
 tap and everything’s good.  Other times I can double-tap and double-tap 
 forever and nothing happens.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
 
> On Sep 14, 2022, at 4:50 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> We have had that issue for a number of years now. What’s frustrating is 
> it has not been resolved.
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 14:21, Jessica Moss  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve found this to be an issue as well, along with something strange 
>> happening with my phone screen this morning.  I went into my recent 
>> contacts, and tried calling back someone who was close to the top of the 
>> screen, and ended up calling someone else instead, not realizing what 
>> happened.
>> Then just to help prevent this from happening again, I decided to go 
>> into the more info menu, just to make sure I was calling the right 
>> person, and my screen apparently jumped again, and went into information 
>> for the wrong contact, and it took about 3 tries for me to select the 
>> right one.
>> Is anyone else noticing this?
>> 
>>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 3:01 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> After approx 24 hours with IOS 16, I have come to the conclusion that 
>>> my phone is only marginally usable.  In addition to the swiping issue 
>>> previously discussed, I’m also finding that often when I tap an icon or 
>>> a mail message, the item will not open.  Sometimes I can work around 
>>> this by doing a tap and hold, but other times I cannot.
>>> 
>>> Everyone’s mileage may vary, of course, and from what I read on 
>>> AppleVis, the usability may vary from one model to another.  FWIW, I 
>>> have a 12 mini.  However, I wanted to post this to the list, just to 
>>> warn others that they might be in for a bumpy ride with IOS 16.  Were I 
>>> you, I would wait, and hope for another release that fixes some of 
>>> these issues.  This is the worst accessibility experience I’ve ever had 
>>> with Apple, since getting my first iPhone in 2009.  I’ve actually 
>>> written Accessibility to ask about downgrading, which I have never done 
>>> before.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> P.S.  If others have had a better experience, feel free to post and 
>>> disagree, so that listers can have the most complete information 
>>> possible when deciding to upgrade.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
>>> itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
>>> at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/8A4E559C-52AC-40A7-A0D1-CAE92BBAFAC2%40me.com.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Re: I recommend against upgrading to IOS 16

[Herbie Allen]

Odd, I have not experienced this issue. I have the known bugs with the lock 
screen, but everywhere else works just fine. Make sure Screen recognition is 
off. Also, try turning VO off and then back on.

> On Sep 14, 2022, at 20:25, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> No.  I’m experiencing them while in various apps.  One that jumps to mind is 
> Mail.  I frequently have trouble getting mail messages to open.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 8:23 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
>> 
>> Am I correct in that you are experiencing these double tapping issues on the 
>> lock screen?
>> 
>>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 20:20, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I’ve never experienced that until this upgrade.  The strange thing about 
>>> all this is that the behavior is very inconsistent.  Sometimes I’ll double 
>>> tap and everything’s good.  Other times I can double-tap and double-tap 
>>> forever and nothing happens.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> 
 On Sep 14, 2022, at 4:50 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
 
 We have had that issue for a number of years now. What’s frustrating is it 
 has not been resolved.
 
> On Sep 14, 2022, at 14:21, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> I’ve found this to be an issue as well, along with something strange 
> happening with my phone screen this morning.  I went into my recent 
> contacts, and tried calling back someone who was close to the top of the 
> screen, and ended up calling someone else instead, not realizing what 
> happened.
> Then just to help prevent this from happening again, I decided to go into 
> the more info menu, just to make sure I was calling the right person, and 
> my screen apparently jumped again, and went into information for the 
> wrong contact, and it took about 3 tries for me to select the right one.
> Is anyone else noticing this?
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 3:01 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> After approx 24 hours with IOS 16, I have come to the conclusion that my 
>> phone is only marginally usable.  In addition to the swiping issue 
>> previously discussed, I’m also finding that often when I tap an icon or 
>> a mail message, the item will not open.  Sometimes I can work around 
>> this by doing a tap and hold, but other times I cannot.
>> 
>> Everyone’s mileage may vary, of course, and from what I read on 
>> AppleVis, the usability may vary from one model to another.  FWIW, I 
>> have a 12 mini.  However, I wanted to post this to the list, just to 
>> warn others that they might be in for a bumpy ride with IOS 16.  Were I 
>> you, I would wait, and hope for another release that fixes some of these 
>> issues.  This is the worst accessibility experience I’ve ever had with 
>> Apple, since getting my first iPhone in 2009.  I’ve actually written 
>> Accessibility to ask about downgrading, which I have never done before.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> P.S.  If others have had a better experience, feel free to post and 
>> disagree, so that listers can have the most complete information 
>> possible when deciding to upgrade.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/8A4E559C-52AC-40A7-A0D1-CAE92BBAFAC2%40me.com.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> 

Re: I recommend against upgrading to IOS 16

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

No.  I’m experiencing them while in various apps.  One that jumps to mind is 
Mail.  I frequently have trouble getting mail messages to open.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Sep 14, 2022, at 8:23 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> Am I correct in that you are experiencing these double tapping issues on the 
> lock screen?
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 20:20, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve never experienced that until this upgrade.  The strange thing about all 
>> this is that the behavior is very inconsistent.  Sometimes I’ll double tap 
>> and everything’s good.  Other times I can double-tap and double-tap forever 
>> and nothing happens.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 4:50 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> We have had that issue for a number of years now. What’s frustrating is it 
>>> has not been resolved.
>>> 
 On Sep 14, 2022, at 14:21, Jessica Moss  wrote:
 
 I’ve found this to be an issue as well, along with something strange 
 happening with my phone screen this morning.  I went into my recent 
 contacts, and tried calling back someone who was close to the top of the 
 screen, and ended up calling someone else instead, not realizing what 
 happened.
 Then just to help prevent this from happening again, I decided to go into 
 the more info menu, just to make sure I was calling the right person, and 
 my screen apparently jumped again, and went into information for the wrong 
 contact, and it took about 3 tries for me to select the right one.
 Is anyone else noticing this?
 
> On Sep 14, 2022, at 3:01 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> After approx 24 hours with IOS 16, I have come to the conclusion that my 
> phone is only marginally usable.  In addition to the swiping issue 
> previously discussed, I’m also finding that often when I tap an icon or a 
> mail message, the item will not open.  Sometimes I can work around this 
> by doing a tap and hold, but other times I cannot.
> 
> Everyone’s mileage may vary, of course, and from what I read on AppleVis, 
> the usability may vary from one model to another.  FWIW, I have a 12 
> mini.  However, I wanted to post this to the list, just to warn others 
> that they might be in for a bumpy ride with IOS 16.  Were I you, I would 
> wait, and hope for another release that fixes some of these issues.  This 
> is the worst accessibility experience I’ve ever had with Apple, since 
> getting my first iPhone in 2009.  I’ve actually written Accessibility to 
> ask about downgrading, which I have never done before.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> P.S.  If others have had a better experience, feel free to post and 
> disagree, so that listers can have the most complete information possible 
> when deciding to upgrade.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/8A4E559C-52AC-40A7-A0D1-CAE92BBAFAC2%40me.com.
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
 at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
 caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
 --- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To view this discussion on the web visit 
 

Re: I recommend against upgrading to IOS 16

[Herbie Allen]

Am I correct in that you are experiencing these double tapping issues on the 
lock screen?

> On Sep 14, 2022, at 20:20, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I’ve never experienced that until this upgrade.  The strange thing about all 
> this is that the behavior is very inconsistent.  Sometimes I’ll double tap 
> and everything’s good.  Other times I can double-tap and double-tap forever 
> and nothing happens.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 4:50 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
>> 
>> We have had that issue for a number of years now. What’s frustrating is it 
>> has not been resolved.
>> 
>>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 14:21, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I’ve found this to be an issue as well, along with something strange 
>>> happening with my phone screen this morning.  I went into my recent 
>>> contacts, and tried calling back someone who was close to the top of the 
>>> screen, and ended up calling someone else instead, not realizing what 
>>> happened.
>>> Then just to help prevent this from happening again, I decided to go into 
>>> the more info menu, just to make sure I was calling the right person, and 
>>> my screen apparently jumped again, and went into information for the wrong 
>>> contact, and it took about 3 tries for me to select the right one.
>>> Is anyone else noticing this?
>>> 
 On Sep 14, 2022, at 3:01 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 After approx 24 hours with IOS 16, I have come to the conclusion that my 
 phone is only marginally usable.  In addition to the swiping issue 
 previously discussed, I’m also finding that often when I tap an icon or a 
 mail message, the item will not open.  Sometimes I can work around this by 
 doing a tap and hold, but other times I cannot.
 
 Everyone’s mileage may vary, of course, and from what I read on AppleVis, 
 the usability may vary from one model to another.  FWIW, I have a 12 mini. 
  However, I wanted to post this to the list, just to warn others that they 
 might be in for a bumpy ride with IOS 16.  Were I you, I would wait, and 
 hope for another release that fixes some of these issues.  This is the 
 worst accessibility experience I’ve ever had with Apple, since getting my 
 first iPhone in 2009.  I’ve actually written Accessibility to ask about 
 downgrading, which I have never done before.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 P.S.  If others have had a better experience, feel free to post and 
 disagree, so that listers can have the most complete information possible 
 when deciding to upgrade.
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
 at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
 caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
 --- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To view this discussion on the web visit 
 https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/8A4E559C-52AC-40A7-A0D1-CAE92BBAFAC2%40me.com.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/174B6195-B2A6-4895-B9EE-17681E816F03%40gmail.com.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please 

Re: I recommend against upgrading to IOS 16

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

I’ve never experienced that until this upgrade.  The strange thing about all 
this is that the behavior is very inconsistent.  Sometimes I’ll double tap and 
everything’s good.  Other times I can double-tap and double-tap forever and 
nothing happens.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Sep 14, 2022, at 4:50 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> We have had that issue for a number of years now. What’s frustrating is it 
> has not been resolved.
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 14:21, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve found this to be an issue as well, along with something strange 
>> happening with my phone screen this morning.  I went into my recent 
>> contacts, and tried calling back someone who was close to the top of the 
>> screen, and ended up calling someone else instead, not realizing what 
>> happened.
>> Then just to help prevent this from happening again, I decided to go into 
>> the more info menu, just to make sure I was calling the right person, and my 
>> screen apparently jumped again, and went into information for the wrong 
>> contact, and it took about 3 tries for me to select the right one.
>> Is anyone else noticing this?
>> 
>>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 3:01 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> After approx 24 hours with IOS 16, I have come to the conclusion that my 
>>> phone is only marginally usable.  In addition to the swiping issue 
>>> previously discussed, I’m also finding that often when I tap an icon or a 
>>> mail message, the item will not open.  Sometimes I can work around this by 
>>> doing a tap and hold, but other times I cannot.
>>> 
>>> Everyone’s mileage may vary, of course, and from what I read on AppleVis, 
>>> the usability may vary from one model to another.  FWIW, I have a 12 mini.  
>>> However, I wanted to post this to the list, just to warn others that they 
>>> might be in for a bumpy ride with IOS 16.  Were I you, I would wait, and 
>>> hope for another release that fixes some of these issues.  This is the 
>>> worst accessibility experience I’ve ever had with Apple, since getting my 
>>> first iPhone in 2009.  I’ve actually written Accessibility to ask about 
>>> downgrading, which I have never done before.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> P.S.  If others have had a better experience, feel free to post and 
>>> disagree, so that listers can have the most complete information possible 
>>> when deciding to upgrade.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> 
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>> 
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> 
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> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives 

Re: I recommend against upgrading to IOS 16

[Bradford Snyder]

I also am not experiencing any “swiping” issues.
Only problem I am having, is when I have Smart Invert (or Classic Invert) 
enabled, I am not able to access the AppSwitcher.
I am able to remedy this situation by, turning off Smart Invert, and then 
restarting my iPhone.
Once the phone restarts, the AppSwitcher works s expected, until Smart Invert 
is enabled again, and the issue is present again.
I’ve tried using Dark Mode instead of Smart Invert, but Dark Mode only works in 
certain apps, and does not provide the same experience.
 

- Brad -



On Sep 14, 2022, at 16:37, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

  Upgraded yesterday. No swiping issues of any kind. No issues either with the 
phone app; So far the only thing I see that confirms I am using iOS 16 is in 
the app stire app and checking latest nates. Apple separated the release notes 
and put them after tyhe open button. Other than that, things are good.

>From E.T.'s Keyboard...
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible
will make violent revolution inevitable."
--John F. Kennedy
My e-Mail:
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/14/2022 12:29 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> Jessica, I don’t usually call people from contacts, but what you are 
> describing makes sense.  It’s seems like there is some fundamental problem 
> with VO focusing on an item and then holding that focus until I shift it by 
> touching another element on the screen.  What phone model do you have?
> Donna
>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 2:21 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve found this to be an issue as well, along with something strange 
>> happening with my phone screen this morning.  I went into my recent 
>> contacts, and tried calling back someone who was close to the top of the 
>> screen, and ended up calling someone else instead, not realizing what 
>> happened.
>>  Then just to help prevent this from happening again, I decided to go into 
>> the more info menu, just to make sure I was calling the right person, and my 
>> screen apparently jumped again, and went into information for the wrong 
>> contact, and it took about 3 tries for me to select the right one.
>>  Is anyone else noticing this?
>> 
>>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 3:01 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> After approx 24 hours with IOS 16, I have come to the conclusion that my 
>>> phone is only marginally usable.  In addition to the swiping issue 
>>> previously discussed, I’m also finding that often when I tap an icon or a 
>>> mail message, the item will not open.  Sometimes I can work around this by 
>>> doing a tap and hold, but other times I cannot.
>>> 
>>> Everyone’s mileage may vary, of course, and from what I read on AppleVis, 
>>> the usability may vary from one model to another.  FWIW, I have a 12 mini.  
>>> However, I wanted to post this to the list, just to warn others that they 
>>> might be in for a bumpy ride with IOS 16.  Were I you, I would wait, and 
>>> hope for another release that fixes some of these issues.  This is the 
>>> worst accessibility experience I’ve ever had with Apple, since getting my 
>>> first iPhone in 2009.  I’ve actually written Accessibility to ask about 
>>> downgrading, which I have never done before.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> P.S.  If others have had a better experience, feel free to post and 
>>> disagree, so that listers can have the most complete information possible 
>>> when deciding to upgrade.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/8A4E559C-52AC-40A7-A0D1-CAE92BBAFAC2%40me.com.
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> 

Re: I recommend against upgrading to IOS 16

[Herbie Allen]

We have had that issue for a number of years now. What’s frustrating is it has 
not been resolved.

> On Sep 14, 2022, at 14:21, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> I’ve found this to be an issue as well, along with something strange 
> happening with my phone screen this morning.  I went into my recent contacts, 
> and tried calling back someone who was close to the top of the screen, and 
> ended up calling someone else instead, not realizing what happened.
>  Then just to help prevent this from happening again, I decided to go into 
> the more info menu, just to make sure I was calling the right person, and my 
> screen apparently jumped again, and went into information for the wrong 
> contact, and it took about 3 tries for me to select the right one.
>  Is anyone else noticing this?
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 3:01 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> After approx 24 hours with IOS 16, I have come to the conclusion that my 
>> phone is only marginally usable.  In addition to the swiping issue 
>> previously discussed, I’m also finding that often when I tap an icon or a 
>> mail message, the item will not open.  Sometimes I can work around this by 
>> doing a tap and hold, but other times I cannot.
>> 
>> Everyone’s mileage may vary, of course, and from what I read on AppleVis, 
>> the usability may vary from one model to another.  FWIW, I have a 12 mini.  
>> However, I wanted to post this to the list, just to warn others that they 
>> might be in for a bumpy ride with IOS 16.  Were I you, I would wait, and 
>> hope for another release that fixes some of these issues.  This is the worst 
>> accessibility experience I’ve ever had with Apple, since getting my first 
>> iPhone in 2009.  I’ve actually written Accessibility to ask about 
>> downgrading, which I have never done before.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> P.S.  If others have had a better experience, feel free to post and 
>> disagree, so that listers can have the most complete information possible 
>> when deciding to upgrade.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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> 
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> 
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Re: I recommend against upgrading to IOS 16

['E.T.' via MacVisionaries]

   Upgraded yesterday. No swiping issues of any kind. No issues either 
with the phone app; So far the only thing I see that confirms I am using 
iOS 16 is in the app stire app and checking latest nates. Apple 
separated the release notes and put them after tyhe open button. Other 
than that, things are good.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible
will make violent revolution inevitable."
 --John F. Kennedy
My e-Mail:
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/14/2022 12:29 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:

Jessica, I don’t usually call people from contacts, but what you are describing 
makes sense.  It’s seems like there is some fundamental problem with VO 
focusing on an item and then holding that focus until I shift it by touching 
another element on the screen.  What phone model do you have?
Donna



On Sep 14, 2022, at 2:21 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:

I’ve found this to be an issue as well, along with something strange happening 
with my phone screen this morning.  I went into my recent contacts, and tried 
calling back someone who was close to the top of the screen, and ended up 
calling someone else instead, not realizing what happened.
  Then just to help prevent this from happening again, I decided to go into the 
more info menu, just to make sure I was calling the right person, and my screen 
apparently jumped again, and went into information for the wrong contact, and 
it took about 3 tries for me to select the right one.
  Is anyone else noticing this?


On Sep 14, 2022, at 3:01 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi all,

After approx 24 hours with IOS 16, I have come to the conclusion that my phone 
is only marginally usable.  In addition to the swiping issue previously 
discussed, I’m also finding that often when I tap an icon or a mail message, 
the item will not open.  Sometimes I can work around this by doing a tap and 
hold, but other times I cannot.

Everyone’s mileage may vary, of course, and from what I read on AppleVis, the 
usability may vary from one model to another.  FWIW, I have a 12 mini.  
However, I wanted to post this to the list, just to warn others that they might 
be in for a bumpy ride with IOS 16.  Were I you, I would wait, and hope for 
another release that fixes some of these issues.  This is the worst 
accessibility experience I’ve ever had with Apple, since getting my first 
iPhone in 2009.  I’ve actually written Accessibility to ask about downgrading, 
which I have never done before.
Cheers,
Donna
P.S.  If others have had a better experience, feel free to post and disagree, 
so that listers can have the most complete information possible when deciding 
to upgrade.

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Re: I recommend against upgrading to IOS 16

[Jessica Moss]

I’m using an iPhone 12.

> On Sep 14, 2022, at 3:29 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Jessica, I don’t usually call people from contacts, but what you are 
> describing makes sense.  It’s seems like there is some fundamental problem 
> with VO focusing on an item and then holding that focus until I shift it by 
> touching another element on the screen.  What phone model do you have?
> Donna
> 
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 2:21 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve found this to be an issue as well, along with something strange 
>> happening with my phone screen this morning.  I went into my recent 
>> contacts, and tried calling back someone who was close to the top of the 
>> screen, and ended up calling someone else instead, not realizing what 
>> happened.
>> Then just to help prevent this from happening again, I decided to go into 
>> the more info menu, just to make sure I was calling the right person, and my 
>> screen apparently jumped again, and went into information for the wrong 
>> contact, and it took about 3 tries for me to select the right one.
>> Is anyone else noticing this?
>> 
>>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 3:01 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> After approx 24 hours with IOS 16, I have come to the conclusion that my 
>>> phone is only marginally usable.  In addition to the swiping issue 
>>> previously discussed, I’m also finding that often when I tap an icon or a 
>>> mail message, the item will not open.  Sometimes I can work around this by 
>>> doing a tap and hold, but other times I cannot.
>>> 
>>> Everyone’s mileage may vary, of course, and from what I read on AppleVis, 
>>> the usability may vary from one model to another.  FWIW, I have a 12 mini.  
>>> However, I wanted to post this to the list, just to warn others that they 
>>> might be in for a bumpy ride with IOS 16.  Were I you, I would wait, and 
>>> hope for another release that fixes some of these issues.  This is the 
>>> worst accessibility experience I’ve ever had with Apple, since getting my 
>>> first iPhone in 2009.  I’ve actually written Accessibility to ask about 
>>> downgrading, which I have never done before.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> P.S.  If others have had a better experience, feel free to post and 
>>> disagree, so that listers can have the most complete information possible 
>>> when deciding to upgrade.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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>> 
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> The archives for 

Re: I recommend against upgrading to IOS 16

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Jessica, I don’t usually call people from contacts, but what you are describing 
makes sense.  It’s seems like there is some fundamental problem with VO 
focusing on an item and then holding that focus until I shift it by touching 
another element on the screen.  What phone model do you have?
Donna


> On Sep 14, 2022, at 2:21 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> I’ve found this to be an issue as well, along with something strange 
> happening with my phone screen this morning.  I went into my recent contacts, 
> and tried calling back someone who was close to the top of the screen, and 
> ended up calling someone else instead, not realizing what happened.
>  Then just to help prevent this from happening again, I decided to go into 
> the more info menu, just to make sure I was calling the right person, and my 
> screen apparently jumped again, and went into information for the wrong 
> contact, and it took about 3 tries for me to select the right one.
>  Is anyone else noticing this?
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2022, at 3:01 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> After approx 24 hours with IOS 16, I have come to the conclusion that my 
>> phone is only marginally usable.  In addition to the swiping issue 
>> previously discussed, I’m also finding that often when I tap an icon or a 
>> mail message, the item will not open.  Sometimes I can work around this by 
>> doing a tap and hold, but other times I cannot.
>> 
>> Everyone’s mileage may vary, of course, and from what I read on AppleVis, 
>> the usability may vary from one model to another.  FWIW, I have a 12 mini.  
>> However, I wanted to post this to the list, just to warn others that they 
>> might be in for a bumpy ride with IOS 16.  Were I you, I would wait, and 
>> hope for another release that fixes some of these issues.  This is the worst 
>> accessibility experience I’ve ever had with Apple, since getting my first 
>> iPhone in 2009.  I’ve actually written Accessibility to ask about 
>> downgrading, which I have never done before.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> P.S.  If others have had a better experience, feel free to post and 
>> disagree, so that listers can have the most complete information possible 
>> when deciding to upgrade.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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> 
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Re: I recommend against upgrading to IOS 16

[Jessica Moss]

I’ve found this to be an issue as well, along with something strange happening 
with my phone screen this morning.  I went into my recent contacts, and tried 
calling back someone who was close to the top of the screen, and ended up 
calling someone else instead, not realizing what happened.
  Then just to help prevent this from happening again, I decided to go into the 
more info menu, just to make sure I was calling the right person, and my screen 
apparently jumped again, and went into information for the wrong contact, and 
it took about 3 tries for me to select the right one.
  Is anyone else noticing this?

> On Sep 14, 2022, at 3:01 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> After approx 24 hours with IOS 16, I have come to the conclusion that my 
> phone is only marginally usable.  In addition to the swiping issue previously 
> discussed, I’m also finding that often when I tap an icon or a mail message, 
> the item will not open.  Sometimes I can work around this by doing a tap and 
> hold, but other times I cannot.
> 
> Everyone’s mileage may vary, of course, and from what I read on AppleVis, the 
> usability may vary from one model to another.  FWIW, I have a 12 mini.  
> However, I wanted to post this to the list, just to warn others that they 
> might be in for a bumpy ride with IOS 16.  Were I you, I would wait, and hope 
> for another release that fixes some of these issues.  This is the worst 
> accessibility experience I’ve ever had with Apple, since getting my first 
> iPhone in 2009.  I’ve actually written Accessibility to ask about 
> downgrading, which I have never done before.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> P.S.  If others have had a better experience, feel free to post and disagree, 
> so that listers can have the most complete information possible when deciding 
> to upgrade.
> 
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I recommend against upgrading to IOS 16

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi all,

After approx 24 hours with IOS 16, I have come to the conclusion that my phone 
is only marginally usable.  In addition to the swiping issue previously 
discussed, I’m also finding that often when I tap an icon or a mail message, 
the item will not open.  Sometimes I can work around this by doing a tap and 
hold, but other times I cannot.

Everyone’s mileage may vary, of course, and from what I read on AppleVis, the 
usability may vary from one model to another.  FWIW, I have a 12 mini.  
However, I wanted to post this to the list, just to warn others that they might 
be in for a bumpy ride with IOS 16.  Were I you, I would wait, and hope for 
another release that fixes some of these issues.  This is the worst 
accessibility experience I’ve ever had with Apple, since getting my first 
iPhone in 2009.  I’ve actually written Accessibility to ask about downgrading, 
which I have never done before.
Cheers,
Donna
P.S.  If others have had a better experience, feel free to post and disagree, 
so that listers can have the most complete information possible when deciding 
to upgrade.

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Re: Question for those of you upgrading to the iPhone 14

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Is it a must for you to get the Iphone 14?
I guess if you have the 11  the answer is yes.
But sadly I guess that there will be no Touch ID for the iPhones.
I don’t have the issue with that but for those who has it might be a concern.
/A

> 11 sep. 2022 kl. 07:29 skrev M. Taylor :
> 
> Hello Donna and Everyone,
> 
> Well, I was completely underwhelmed, at best, and absolutely disappointed, at 
> worst, with iPhone release this time around.
> 
> I was hoping for some form of TouchID but, not gonna happen.
> 
> Removing the SIM tray on the US models is somewhat concerning as A T & T 
> Wireless has had some problems with Activating and maintaining the account 
> settings when eSim is activated.  This is according to several articles I've 
> read, recently.
> 
> I just don't know, I just don't know.
> 
> I have been trying to get used to FaceID via iPhone 11 but am definitely 
> going to miss Touch ID.
> 
> Be that as it may, I plan to get an iPhone 14 Pro Max; not in the first 
> couple of months; figure I'll give carriers and Apple time to break in the 
> new models (smile), specifically eSIM activation but I am on the path to 
> iPhone 14.
> 
> Not certain but I may grab a non-US model so I will have the option of 
> continuing to use my SIM card.
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries  
> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2022 6:24 AM
> To: via MacVisionaries 
> Subject: Question for those of you upgrading to the iPhone 14
> 
> Morning, all,
> 
> I have a 12 mini, and the battery life is starting to deteriorate, so I’ve 
> decided to take the plunge and upgrade to the iPhone 14.  I’m trying to 
> decide whether to go with the 14, or go big and get the Pro.  The main thing 
> that entices me about the Pro is the faster processor.  I’m curious what 
> others are doing.  So to those of you who plan to upgrade, are you going for 
> the 14 or the Pro?
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
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Re: Question for those of you upgrading to the iPhone 14

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

We had AT for a couple of years and had no end of problems with them.  It 
wouldn’t surprise me if they have problems with ESIm that other carriers don’t.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Sep 11, 2022, at 8:00 AM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> I had eSIM activation with TMobile with the iPhone 13 and have had no issues. 
> 
>> On Sep 11, 2022, at 00:29, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Donna and Everyone,
>> 
>> Well, I was completely underwhelmed, at best, and absolutely disappointed, 
>> at worst, with iPhone release this time around.
>> 
>> I was hoping for some form of TouchID but, not gonna happen.
>> 
>> Removing the SIM tray on the US models is somewhat concerning as A T & T 
>> Wireless has had some problems with Activating and maintaining the account 
>> settings when eSim is activated.  This is according to several articles I've 
>> read, recently.
>> 
>> I just don't know, I just don't know.
>> 
>> I have been trying to get used to FaceID via iPhone 11 but am definitely 
>> going to miss Touch ID.
>> 
>> Be that as it may, I plan to get an iPhone 14 Pro Max; not in the first 
>> couple of months; figure I'll give carriers and Apple time to break in the 
>> new models (smile), specifically eSIM activation but I am on the path to 
>> iPhone 14.
>> 
>> Not certain but I may grab a non-US model so I will have the option of 
>> continuing to use my SIM card.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries  
>> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2022 6:24 AM
>> To: via MacVisionaries 
>> Subject: Question for those of you upgrading to the iPhone 14
>> 
>> Morning, all,
>> 
>> I have a 12 mini, and the battery life is starting to deteriorate, so I’ve 
>> decided to take the plunge and upgrade to the iPhone 14.  I’m trying to 
>> decide whether to go with the 14, or go big and get the Pro.  The main thing 
>> that entices me about the Pro is the faster processor.  I’m curious what 
>> others are doing.  So to those of you who plan to upgrade, are you going for 
>> the 14 or the Pro?
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
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>> Visionaries list.
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>> 
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Re: Question for those of you upgrading to the iPhone 14

[Herbie Allen]

I had eSIM activation with TMobile with the iPhone 13 and have had no issues. 

> On Sep 11, 2022, at 00:29, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Donna and Everyone,
> 
> Well, I was completely underwhelmed, at best, and absolutely disappointed, at 
> worst, with iPhone release this time around.
> 
> I was hoping for some form of TouchID but, not gonna happen.
> 
> Removing the SIM tray on the US models is somewhat concerning as A T & T 
> Wireless has had some problems with Activating and maintaining the account 
> settings when eSim is activated.  This is according to several articles I've 
> read, recently.
> 
> I just don't know, I just don't know.
> 
> I have been trying to get used to FaceID via iPhone 11 but am definitely 
> going to miss Touch ID.
> 
> Be that as it may, I plan to get an iPhone 14 Pro Max; not in the first 
> couple of months; figure I'll give carriers and Apple time to break in the 
> new models (smile), specifically eSIM activation but I am on the path to 
> iPhone 14.
> 
> Not certain but I may grab a non-US model so I will have the option of 
> continuing to use my SIM card.
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries  
> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2022 6:24 AM
> To: via MacVisionaries 
> Subject: Question for those of you upgrading to the iPhone 14
> 
> Morning, all,
> 
> I have a 12 mini, and the battery life is starting to deteriorate, so I’ve 
> decided to take the plunge and upgrade to the iPhone 14.  I’m trying to 
> decide whether to go with the 14, or go big and get the Pro.  The main thing 
> that entices me about the Pro is the faster processor.  I’m curious what 
> others are doing.  So to those of you who plan to upgrade, are you going for 
> the 14 or the Pro?
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> -- 
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> 
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Re: Question for those of you upgrading to the iPhone 14

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Mark,

If it weren’t for the battery issue, I’m not sure I would upgrade.  I have to 
charge my phone twice a day these days.  I figure that since I want to move up 
to a standard-sized phone anyway, it makes sense to upgrade.  And I actually 
think the e-Sim is kind of cool.  Not anything I would upgrade for, but cool 
nonetheless.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Sep 11, 2022, at 12:29 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Donna and Everyone,
> 
> Well, I was completely underwhelmed, at best, and absolutely disappointed, at 
> worst, with iPhone release this time around.
> 
> I was hoping for some form of TouchID but, not gonna happen.
> 
> Removing the SIM tray on the US models is somewhat concerning as A T & T 
> Wireless has had some problems with Activating and maintaining the account 
> settings when eSim is activated.  This is according to several articles I've 
> read, recently.
> 
> I just don't know, I just don't know.
> 
> I have been trying to get used to FaceID via iPhone 11 but am definitely 
> going to miss Touch ID.
> 
> Be that as it may, I plan to get an iPhone 14 Pro Max; not in the first 
> couple of months; figure I'll give carriers and Apple time to break in the 
> new models (smile), specifically eSIM activation but I am on the path to 
> iPhone 14.
> 
> Not certain but I may grab a non-US model so I will have the option of 
> continuing to use my SIM card.
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries  
> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2022 6:24 AM
> To: via MacVisionaries 
> Subject: Question for those of you upgrading to the iPhone 14
> 
> Morning, all,
> 
> I have a 12 mini, and the battery life is starting to deteriorate, so I’ve 
> decided to take the plunge and upgrade to the iPhone 14.  I’m trying to 
> decide whether to go with the 14, or go big and get the Pro.  The main thing 
> that entices me about the Pro is the faster processor.  I’m curious what 
> others are doing.  So to those of you who plan to upgrade, are you going for 
> the 14 or the Pro?
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> -- 
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RE: Question for those of you upgrading to the iPhone 14

[M. Taylor]

Hello Donna and Everyone,

Well, I was completely underwhelmed, at best, and absolutely disappointed, at 
worst, with iPhone release this time around.

I was hoping for some form of TouchID but, not gonna happen.

Removing the SIM tray on the US models is somewhat concerning as A T & T 
Wireless has had some problems with Activating and maintaining the account 
settings when eSim is activated.  This is according to several articles I've 
read, recently.

I just don't know, I just don't know.

I have been trying to get used to FaceID via iPhone 11 but am definitely going 
to miss Touch ID.

Be that as it may, I plan to get an iPhone 14 Pro Max; not in the first couple 
of months; figure I'll give carriers and Apple time to break in the new models 
(smile), specifically eSIM activation but I am on the path to iPhone 14.

Not certain but I may grab a non-US model so I will have the option of 
continuing to use my SIM card.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2022 6:24 AM
To: via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Question for those of you upgrading to the iPhone 14

Morning, all,

I have a 12 mini, and the battery life is starting to deteriorate, so I’ve 
decided to take the plunge and upgrade to the iPhone 14.  I’m trying to decide 
whether to go with the 14, or go big and get the Pro.  The main thing that 
entices me about the Pro is the faster processor.  I’m curious what others are 
doing.  So to those of you who plan to upgrade, are you going for the 14 or the 
Pro?
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: Question for those of you upgrading to the iPhone 14

[Les Kriegler]

Hi Donna,

I don’t like the three-year plan either. I have a few months left to pay off my 
iPhone 12 mini anyway. But we shall see. It will definitely be the 14 pro 
whenever I get my phone.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 10, 2022, at 2:10 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Les,
> 
> Yeah, I’m leaning that way.  And for those of you on Verizon, it looks like 
> they’re offering some pretty good deals if you are willing to take a 
> three-year contract.  I don’t really like that, but VZ is the best option 
> where I live, so I don’t really see a reason not to do it.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> 
>> On Sep 10, 2022, at 10:10 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Donna,
>> 
>> I also have the 12 mini and have not been happy with the battery life. I am 
>> definitely going to go for the pro. It’s essentially $100 more, and I think 
>> it’s worth it. of course, I am talking about the 14 pro.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Sep 10, 2022, at 9:35 AM, lenron brown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> If I were going to upgrade it would have to be the pro. If I didn't I
>>> might as well get the 13 and save some money. I have decided to keep
>>> my 12 pro max and just change the battery at some point.
>>> 
 On 9/10/22, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries
  wrote:
 Morning, all,
 
 I have a 12 mini, and the battery life is starting to deteriorate, so I’ve
 decided to take the plunge and upgrade to the iPhone 14.  I’m trying to
 decide whether to go with the 14, or go big and get the Pro.  The main 
 thing
 that entices me about the Pro is the faster processor.  I’m curious what
 others are doing.  So to those of you who plan to upgrade, are you going 
 for
 the 14 or the Pro?
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
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>>> 
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Re: Question for those of you upgrading to the iPhone 14

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Les,

Yeah, I’m leaning that way.  And for those of you on Verizon, it looks like 
they’re offering some pretty good deals if you are willing to take a three-year 
contract.  I don’t really like that, but VZ is the best option where I live, so 
I don’t really see a reason not to do it.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Sep 10, 2022, at 10:10 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna,
> 
> I also have the 12 mini and have not been happy with the battery life. I am 
> definitely going to go for the pro. It’s essentially $100 more, and I think 
> it’s worth it. of course, I am talking about the 14 pro.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 10, 2022, at 9:35 AM, lenron brown  wrote:
>> 
>> If I were going to upgrade it would have to be the pro. If I didn't I
>> might as well get the 13 and save some money. I have decided to keep
>> my 12 pro max and just change the battery at some point.
>> 
>>> On 9/10/22, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries
>>>  wrote:
>>> Morning, all,
>>> 
>>> I have a 12 mini, and the battery life is starting to deteriorate, so I’ve
>>> decided to take the plunge and upgrade to the iPhone 14.  I’m trying to
>>> decide whether to go with the 14, or go big and get the Pro.  The main thing
>>> that entices me about the Pro is the faster processor.  I’m curious what
>>> others are doing.  So to those of you who plan to upgrade, are you going for
>>> the 14 or the Pro?
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Lenron Brown
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Re: Question for those of you upgrading to the iPhone 14

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

I don’t really want the larger phone, I want the 6.1.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Sep 10, 2022, at 9:56 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> iPhone 14 and iPhone 14 Pro are the same size, at 6.1 inches.
> There is the new iPhone 14 Plus,, that is 6.7 inches, which is the same size 
> as the iPhone 14 Pro Max.
> You know longer half to go with an iPhone pro in order to get the larger 6.7 
> inch  iPhone .
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> On Sep 10, 2022, at 08:29, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Morning, all,
> 
> I have a 12 mini, and the battery life is starting to deteriorate, so I’ve 
> decided to take the plunge and upgrade to the iPhone 14.  I’m trying to 
> decide whether to go with the 14, or go big and get the Pro.  The main thing 
> that entices me about the Pro is the faster processor.  I’m curious what 
> others are doing.  So to those of you who plan to upgrade, are you going for 
> the 14 or the Pro?
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
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Re: Question for those of you upgrading to the iPhone 14

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Lenron,

I might have made the same choice, but I want to get away from the Mini.  The 
size is a good fit, but I think the sound and battery life are better on bigger 
phones.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Sep 10, 2022, at 8:35 AM, lenron brown  wrote:
> 
> If I were going to upgrade it would have to be the pro. If I didn't I
> might as well get the 13 and save some money. I have decided to keep
> my 12 pro max and just change the battery at some point.
> 
> On 9/10/22, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries
>  wrote:
>> Morning, all,
>> 
>> I have a 12 mini, and the battery life is starting to deteriorate, so I’ve
>> decided to take the plunge and upgrade to the iPhone 14.  I’m trying to
>> decide whether to go with the 14, or go big and get the Pro.  The main thing
>> that entices me about the Pro is the faster processor.  I’m curious what
>> others are doing.  So to those of you who plan to upgrade, are you going for
>> the 14 or the Pro?
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
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Re: Question for those of you upgrading to the iPhone 14

[Dave Carlson]

Anders,

US$999.99 for 128Gb, $1099.99 256 Gb, more fore more memory up to 1 Tb.

Dave Carlson
Engineer, Farfar, Woodworker, Pioneer, Musician, and Oregonian




On Sep 10, 2022, at 7:47 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:

Hi!
What’s the price in the us for the 14 pro?
/A

> 10 sep. 2022 kl. 16:39 skrev Dave Carlson  <mailto:dgcarlson0...@gmail.com>>:
> 
> Planning the iPhone 14 Pro. Not just for the processor, but for the better 
> camera, the LIDAR, and the Precise Positioning.
> I’m upgrading from a 12 Pro.
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Woodworker, Musician, Oregonian, Farfar, Pioneer, and Engineer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sep 10, 2022, at 6:24 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
> Morning, all,
> 
> I have a 12 mini, and the battery life is starting to deteriorate, so I’ve 
> decided to take the plunge and upgrade to the iPhone 14.  I’m trying to 
> decide whether to go with the 14, or go big and get the Pro.  The main thing 
> that entices me about the Pro is the faster processor.  I’m curious what 
> others are doing.  So to those of you who plan to upgrade, are you going for 
> the 14 or the Pro?
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
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Re: Question for those of you upgrading to the iPhone 14

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
In Sweden the Pro will cost like 14000 Swedish krona.
Though I will go for the new AirPods Pro later when Black Friday comes.
/A

> 10 sep. 2022 kl. 17:03 skrev 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
> :
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 10, 2022, at 10:39, Dave Carlson  wrote:
>> 
>> Planning the iPhone 14 Pro. Not just for the processor, but for the better 
>> camera, the LIDAR, and the Precise Positioning.
> It is my understanding, which may be mistaken, that the new door detection 
> feature in iOS 16 requires LiDAR, hence the Pro model. It’s the same for 
> people detection.
> I have an iPhone XS, and the reasons for upgrading are accumulating, but they 
> are not yet compelling. For those in the U.S. and China, prices have 
> reportedly been held the same as those of last year’s models, but prices have 
> been increased in other markets. I would not be surprised if the price 
> increases were to reach the U.S. and China with next year’s devices, though 
> that of course is purely speculation on my part.
> 
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Re: Question for those of you upgrading to the iPhone 14

[Les Kriegler]

Hi Donna,

I also have the 12 mini and have not been happy with the battery life. I am 
definitely going to go for the pro. It’s essentially $100 more, and I think 
it’s worth it. of course, I am talking about the 14 pro.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 10, 2022, at 9:35 AM, lenron brown  wrote:
> 
> If I were going to upgrade it would have to be the pro. If I didn't I
> might as well get the 13 and save some money. I have decided to keep
> my 12 pro max and just change the battery at some point.
> 
>> On 9/10/22, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries
>>  wrote:
>> Morning, all,
>> 
>> I have a 12 mini, and the battery life is starting to deteriorate, so I’ve
>> decided to take the plunge and upgrade to the iPhone 14.  I’m trying to
>> decide whether to go with the 14, or go big and get the Pro.  The main thing
>> that entices me about the Pro is the faster processor.  I’m curious what
>> others are doing.  So to those of you who plan to upgrade, are you going for
>> the 14 or the Pro?
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
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>> 
> 
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> -- 
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Re: Question for those of you upgrading to the iPhone 14

[Brad Snyder]

This is correct.
LIDAR is required for these features.

- Brad -

On Sep 10, 2022, at 10:03, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:



> On Sep 10, 2022, at 10:39, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> Planning the iPhone 14 Pro. Not just for the processor, but for the better 
> camera, the LIDAR, and the Precise Positioning.
It is my understanding, which may be mistaken, that the new door detection 
feature in iOS 16 requires LiDAR, hence the Pro model. It’s the same for people 
detection.
I have an iPhone XS, and the reasons for upgrading are accumulating, but they 
are not yet compelling. For those in the U.S. and China, prices have reportedly 
been held the same as those of last year’s models, but prices have been 
increased in other markets. I would not be surprised if the price increases 
were to reach the U.S. and China with next year’s devices, though that of 
course is purely speculation on my part.

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Re: Question for those of you upgrading to the iPhone 14

[Brad Snyder]

There has been no price increase.
Prices are the same as prior years models.
Pro iPhone starts at $999.

- Brad -

On Sep 10, 2022, at 09:47, Anders Holmberg  wrote:

Hi!
What’s the price in the us for the 14 pro?
/A

> 10 sep. 2022 kl. 16:39 skrev Dave Carlson :
> 
> Planning the iPhone 14 Pro. Not just for the processor, but for the better 
> camera, the LIDAR, and the Precise Positioning.
> I’m upgrading from a 12 Pro.
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Woodworker, Musician, Oregonian, Farfar, Pioneer, and Engineer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sep 10, 2022, at 6:24 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Morning, all,
> 
> I have a 12 mini, and the battery life is starting to deteriorate, so I’ve 
> decided to take the plunge and upgrade to the iPhone 14.  I’m trying to 
> decide whether to go with the 14, or go big and get the Pro.  The main thing 
> that entices me about the Pro is the faster processor.  I’m curious what 
> others are doing.  So to those of you who plan to upgrade, are you going for 
> the 14 or the Pro?
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
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Re: Question for those of you upgrading to the iPhone 14

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

> On Sep 10, 2022, at 10:39, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> Planning the iPhone 14 Pro. Not just for the processor, but for the better 
> camera, the LIDAR, and the Precise Positioning.
It is my understanding, which may be mistaken, that the new door detection 
feature in iOS 16 requires LiDAR, hence the Pro model. It’s the same for people 
detection.
I have an iPhone XS, and the reasons for upgrading are accumulating, but they 
are not yet compelling. For those in the U.S. and China, prices have reportedly 
been held the same as those of last year’s models, but prices have been 
increased in other markets. I would not be surprised if the price increases 
were to reach the U.S. and China with next year’s devices, though that of 
course is purely speculation on my part.

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Re: Question for those of you upgrading to the iPhone 14

[Brad Snyder]

iPhone 14 and iPhone 14 Pro are the same size, at 6.1 inches.
There is the new iPhone 14 Plus,, that is 6.7 inches, which is the same size as 
the iPhone 14 Pro Max.
You know longer half to go with an iPhone pro in order to get the larger 6.7 
inch  iPhone .

- Brad -

On Sep 10, 2022, at 08:29, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Morning, all,

I have a 12 mini, and the battery life is starting to deteriorate, so I’ve 
decided to take the plunge and upgrade to the iPhone 14.  I’m trying to decide 
whether to go with the 14, or go big and get the Pro.  The main thing that 
entices me about the Pro is the faster processor.  I’m curious what others are 
doing.  So to those of you who plan to upgrade, are you going for the 14 or the 
Pro?
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: Question for those of you upgrading to the iPhone 14

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
What’s the price in the us for the 14 pro?
/A

> 10 sep. 2022 kl. 16:39 skrev Dave Carlson :
> 
> Planning the iPhone 14 Pro. Not just for the processor, but for the better 
> camera, the LIDAR, and the Precise Positioning.
> I’m upgrading from a 12 Pro.
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Woodworker, Musician, Oregonian, Farfar, Pioneer, and Engineer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sep 10, 2022, at 6:24 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
> Morning, all,
> 
> I have a 12 mini, and the battery life is starting to deteriorate, so I’ve 
> decided to take the plunge and upgrade to the iPhone 14.  I’m trying to 
> decide whether to go with the 14, or go big and get the Pro.  The main thing 
> that entices me about the Pro is the faster processor.  I’m curious what 
> others are doing.  So to those of you who plan to upgrade, are you going for 
> the 14 or the Pro?
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
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Re: Question for those of you upgrading to the iPhone 14

[Dave Carlson]

Planning the iPhone 14 Pro. Not just for the processor, but for the better 
camera, the LIDAR, and the Precise Positioning.
I’m upgrading from a 12 Pro.

Dave Carlson
Woodworker, Musician, Oregonian, Farfar, Pioneer, and Engineer




On Sep 10, 2022, at 6:24 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Morning, all,

I have a 12 mini, and the battery life is starting to deteriorate, so I’ve 
decided to take the plunge and upgrade to the iPhone 14.  I’m trying to decide 
whether to go with the 14, or go big and get the Pro.  The main thing that 
entices me about the Pro is the faster processor.  I’m curious what others are 
doing.  So to those of you who plan to upgrade, are you going for the 14 or the 
Pro?
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: Question for those of you upgrading to the iPhone 14

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Go for the pro.
I won’t do that yet because I can’t afford it but it has a startup chime which 
I think its very good to have.
Also it has the faster processor I think.
Bless!
/A

> 10 sep. 2022 kl. 15:24 skrev 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
> :
> 
> Morning, all,
> 
> I have a 12 mini, and the battery life is starting to deteriorate, so I’ve 
> decided to take the plunge and upgrade to the iPhone 14.  I’m trying to 
> decide whether to go with the 14, or go big and get the Pro.  The main thing 
> that entices me about the Pro is the faster processor.  I’m curious what 
> others are doing.  So to those of you who plan to upgrade, are you going for 
> the 14 or the Pro?
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
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Re: Question for those of you upgrading to the iPhone 14

[lenron brown]

If I were going to upgrade it would have to be the pro. If I didn't I
might as well get the 13 and save some money. I have decided to keep
my 12 pro max and just change the battery at some point.

On 9/10/22, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries
 wrote:
> Morning, all,
>
> I have a 12 mini, and the battery life is starting to deteriorate, so I’ve
> decided to take the plunge and upgrade to the iPhone 14.  I’m trying to
> decide whether to go with the 14, or go big and get the Pro.  The main thing
> that entices me about the Pro is the faster processor.  I’m curious what
> others are doing.  So to those of you who plan to upgrade, are you going for
> the 14 or the Pro?
> Cheers,
> Donna
>
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-- 
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Question for those of you upgrading to the iPhone 14

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Morning, all,

I have a 12 mini, and the battery life is starting to deteriorate, so I’ve 
decided to take the plunge and upgrade to the iPhone 14.  I’m trying to decide 
whether to go with the 14, or go big and get the Pro.  The main thing that 
entices me about the Pro is the faster processor.  I’m curious what others are 
doing.  So to those of you who plan to upgrade, are you going for the 14 or the 
Pro?
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: Upgrading from Catalina

[Phil Halton]

Thanks Dave, I really only use the Mac for Safari and Numbers. Everything else 
I do on my iPhone ever since I got carpal tunnel. I just don’t wanna fall too 
far behind on the operating systems that’s my worry. But, I’ll probably have to 
get a new MacBook Air in the next few years, And maybe  that will be my next OS 
upgrade.

Sent from my IPhone


> On Apr 19, 2022, at 12:05 AM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> Phil,
> 
> In my experience, upgrading from Catalina to Monterey is pretty painless, and 
> it works as well as Catalina. However the text message app is quite different 
> and takes a bit of getting used to.
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Woodworker, Oregonian, Farfar, Pioneer, and Engineer
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Upgrading from Catalina

[Dave Carlson]

Phil,

In my experience, upgrading from Catalina to Monterey is pretty painless, and 
it works as well as Catalina. However the text message app is quite different 
and takes a bit of getting used to.

Dave Carlson
Woodworker, Oregonian, Farfar, Pioneer, and Engineer



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Upgrading from Catalina

[Phil Halton]

Lately I’m getting nag screens for updating to Monterey. I’m currently using 
Catalina on a mid 2013 MacBook Air. Is there any compelling reason why I should 
do so? I’m perfectly happy with Catalina, but I normally try to stay reasonably 
current with the latest OS. However, I just don’t feel like updating. Will I 
miss out on anything? Am I approaching the limits of my 2013 MacBook Air as far 
as OS compatibility is concerned? It’s probably not too far off in the future 
will have to get a new MacBook Air, And that will probably be my next OS 
upgrade.

Sent from my IPhone

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Re: internet almost useless to me on Mac now and upgrading to a new Mac

[Herbie Allen]

If possible I would go with the newer Mac models. If you just use it for basic 
stuff then you are probably fine with the Air.

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 16:49, Kathryn Zodrow  wrote:
> 
> Yep, I’d say your best alternative is using a smart phone for browsing the 
> Internet. There’s some sites I can use on my Mac, but other ones Safari  
> won’t let me open because my computer is too old. I’ve been using a late 2008 
> white MacBook running El Capitan and will need to upgrade to a new Mac soon. 
> Do any of you have any suggestions for what Mac I should upgrade to next?
> Thanks.
> Katie
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 1:46 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
>> 
>> At this point, your  smart phone is probably going to be more helpful if 
>> you have one. 
>> 
>>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 15:30, Raymond Foret Jr >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Okay,  Until I can get a new Mac somehow, does anybody out there know of a 
>>> good more text based browser that I can actually use with El Capitain?  I 
>>> know, that’s old but it’s all I’ve got now because this old Mac (a mid 2009 
>>> moddel) will not support anything more recent.  So, I figured that if 
>>> Safari is getting less and less useful to me, and Crome is not much better 
>>> now, is there any alternative that I might try?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from the first computer with built-in screen reader access for the 
>>> blind:
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> 
>>> The constantly barefooted Ray
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
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Re: internet almost useless to me on Mac now and upgrading to a new Mac

[Kathryn Zodrow]

Yep, I’d say your best alternative is using a smart phone for browsing the 
Internet. There’s some sites I can use on my Mac, but other ones Safari  won’t 
let me open because my computer is too old. I’ve been using a late 2008 white 
MacBook running El Capitan and will need to upgrade to a new Mac soon. Do any 
of you have any suggestions for what Mac I should upgrade to next?
Thanks.
Katie


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 1:46 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> At this point, your  smart phone is probably going to be more helpful if you 
> have one. 
> 
>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 15:30, Raymond Foret Jr  wrote:
>> 
>> Okay,  Until I can get a new Mac somehow, does anybody out there know of a 
>> good more text based browser that I can actually use with El Capitain?  I 
>> know, that’s old but it’s all I’ve got now because this old Mac (a mid 2009 
>> moddel) will not support anything more recent.  So, I figured that if Safari 
>> is getting less and less useful to me, and Crome is not much better now, is 
>> there any alternative that I might try?
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from the first computer with built-in screen reader access for the 
>> blind:
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> 
>> The constantly barefooted Ray
>> 
>> 
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Re: trouble upgrading MacBook Pro 2019 to Monterey

[Brad Snyder]

As said by Roseanne Rosanna Danna, on those early SNL Weekend Updates, "It's 
always something."

- Brad -

On Jan 3, 2022, at 16:09, Raul Gallegos  wrote:

Hello everyone and happy New Year if you celebrate it.


I'm writing to report success! The final fix was completely reformatting the 
hard drive, installing Mohave, and then immediately upgrading to Monterey. I 
had so many things, and thought I had done a recovery, but now that I think of 
it, when I did the recovery, I had done it without reformatting the drive. In 
any case, all is well and my wife is now enjoying this MBP 2019 for her daily 
work. Now, it's onto other customization.


Thanks everyone for your wonderful suggestions.


On 12/27/2021 3:25 PM, matthew dyer wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I w9ould do a clean install consideringg that you are jumping several 
> versions behind.   This should give you a clean install truly.
> 
> Matthew
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 27, 2021, at 10:14 AM, Raul Gallegos  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello everyone, I have recently purchased a MacBook Pro 2019 from someone 
>> who has upgraded to something else. This Mac was reset to all factory 
>> defaults and there are no problems there. It is currently using Mohave and 
>> is running fine. I am trying to upgrade it to the Monterey OS but running 
>> into a snag. After the download is done and I choose to upgrade, the 
>> standard Agree of license terms comes up. I do that, and then it gets stuck 
>> on checking with (null), no percentage. No other windows seem to be open. I 
>> have tried shutting it down and starting over, I have removed the install 
>> icon from the Applications finder folder and re-downloaded the 12 GB size 
>> file, and I have connected and reconnected it to the WiFi. Still, no go. Do 
>> others have ideas of what else I may be able to try? I have not done any 
>> other kind of configuration or customization other than the standard Apple 
>> ID and one Gmail account on it, so if I need to erase it completely and 
>> start all over, no data will get lost.
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks all for any suggestions you may offer.
>> 
>> 
>> /Raul
>> 
>> 
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Re: trouble upgrading MacBook Pro 2019 to Monterey

[Raul Gallegos]

Hello everyone and happy New Year if you celebrate it.


I'm writing to report success! The final fix was completely reformatting 
the hard drive, installing Mohave, and then immediately upgrading to 
Monterey. I had so many things, and thought I had done a recovery, but 
now that I think of it, when I did the recovery, I had done it without 
reformatting the drive. In any case, all is well and my wife is now 
enjoying this MBP 2019 for her daily work. Now, it's onto other 
customization.



Thanks everyone for your wonderful suggestions.


On 12/27/2021 3:25 PM, matthew dyer wrote:

Hi,

I w9ould do a clean install consideringg that you are jumping several versions 
behind.   This should give you a clean install truly.

Matthew




On Dec 27, 2021, at 10:14 AM, Raul Gallegos  wrote:

Hello everyone, I have recently purchased a MacBook Pro 2019 from someone who 
has upgraded to something else. This Mac was reset to all factory defaults and 
there are no problems there. It is currently using Mohave and is running fine. 
I am trying to upgrade it to the Monterey OS but running into a snag. After the 
download is done and I choose to upgrade, the standard Agree of license terms 
comes up. I do that, and then it gets stuck on checking with (null), no 
percentage. No other windows seem to be open. I have tried shutting it down and 
starting over, I have removed the install icon from the Applications finder 
folder and re-downloaded the 12 GB size file, and I have connected and 
reconnected it to the WiFi. Still, no go. Do others have ideas of what else I 
may be able to try? I have not done any other kind of configuration or 
customization other than the standard Apple ID and one Gmail account on it, so 
if I need to erase it completely and start all over, no data will get lost.


Thanks all for any suggestions you may offer.


/Raul


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Re: trouble upgrading MacBook Pro 2019 to Monterey

[Raul Gallegos]

Hi all. Well, still no go. I also thought that it might be some kind of 
authentication prompt. However, trying out FN+VO+1,1 on this MBP 2019 
did not work either. It showed me the available windows to switch into 
and non e were a password prompt. I contacted Apple accessibility and 
the person was equally stumped. He tried directing me to download the OS 
update from the App Store instead of using the Update section from About 
my Mac and that did not work either. he tried having me download an 
earlier OS but it was not found in the App Store either. Brad, if your 
offer of Catalina is still good, let's make that happen and I can try 
this way. The Apple rep got a screen shot of the null screen when the 
update is trying to process and the issue was escalated. So far, I am 
waiting to hear back from them. Maybe this Friday, maybe next week. I 
also found a guide on installing the update using a bootable USB drive, 
but I can't get the Mac to boot from the drive even though I gave it 
what I think are the right terminal commands. The guide I found is from 
this site: 
https://www.cleverfiles.com/howto/clean-install-macos-monterey.html



Meanwhile, things are working fine with Mohave. However, if this mystery 
can be solved, that will be wonderful.




If there are other ideas, please let me know.


On 12/27/2021 6:49 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:

I agree.  This is so obvious, I should have thought of this myself.
/
- Brad -/




On Dec 27, 2021, at 10:59, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:


Hi,

I suspect that it’s asking you to enter your password for the 
computer.  Upgrading from Mojave to Monterey is perfectly normal and 
supported.  If just entering your password then pressing return does 
not get it started, use the Application Chooser, VO-f1-f1, down to 
system Dialogs, and there should be an authentication dialog waiting 
for your attention.


Later…


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Professional Learning Specialist
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada


On Dec 27, 2021, at 09:15, Herbie Allen  wrote:

I was thinking the same thing, although the Apple help page makes it 
sound like you should be able to upgrade directly from Mohave.



On Dec 27, 2021, at 10:08, Brad Snyder  wrote:

I would try updating to macOS Catalina first, and then do the update 
to Monterey.
If you have a problem finding the Catalina installer, contact me off 
list, and I can get it to you.


HTH.

- Brad -

On Dec 27, 2021, at 09:14, Raul Gallegos  wrote:

Hello everyone, I have recently purchased a MacBook Pro 2019 from 
someone who has upgraded to something else. This Mac was reset to 
all factory defaults and there are no problems there. It is 
currently using Mohave and is running fine. I am trying to upgrade 
it to the Monterey OS but running into a snag. After the download is 
done and I choose to upgrade, the standard Agree of license terms 
comes up. I do that, and then it gets stuck on checking with (null), 
no percentage. No other windows seem to be open. I have tried 
shutting it down and starting over, I have removed the install icon 
from the Applications finder folder and re-downloaded the 12 GB size 
file, and I have connected and reconnected it to the WiFi. Still, no 
go. Do others have ideas of what else I may be able to try? I have 
not done any other kind of configuration or customization other than 
the standard Apple ID and one Gmail account on it, so if I need to 
erase it completely and start all over, no data will get lost.



Thanks all for any suggestions you may offer.


/Raul


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Re: trouble upgrading MacBook Pro 2019 to Monterey

[Brad Snyder]

I agree.  This is so obvious, I should have thought of this myself.

- Brad -




On Dec 27, 2021, at 10:59, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi,

I suspect that it’s asking you to enter your password for the computer.  
Upgrading from Mojave to Monterey is perfectly normal and supported.  If just 
entering your password then pressing return does not get it started, use the 
Application Chooser, VO-f1-f1, down to system Dialogs, and there should be an 
authentication dialog waiting for your attention.

Later…


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Professional Learning Specialist
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On Dec 27, 2021, at 09:15, Herbie Allen  <mailto:herbie.al...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> I was thinking the same thing, although the Apple help page makes it sound 
> like you should be able to upgrade directly from Mohave.
> 
>> On Dec 27, 2021, at 10:08, Brad Snyder > <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> I would try updating to macOS Catalina first, and then do the update to 
>> Monterey.
>> If you have a problem finding the Catalina installer, contact me off list, 
>> and I can get it to you.
>> 
>> HTH.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> On Dec 27, 2021, at 09:14, Raul Gallegos > <mailto:r...@raulgallegos.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello everyone, I have recently purchased a MacBook Pro 2019 from someone 
>> who has upgraded to something else. This Mac was reset to all factory 
>> defaults and there are no problems there. It is currently using Mohave and 
>> is running fine. I am trying to upgrade it to the Monterey OS but running 
>> into a snag. After the download is done and I choose to upgrade, the 
>> standard Agree of license terms comes up. I do that, and then it gets stuck 
>> on checking with (null), no percentage. No other windows seem to be open. I 
>> have tried shutting it down and starting over, I have removed the install 
>> icon from the Applications finder folder and re-downloaded the 12 GB size 
>> file, and I have connected and reconnected it to the WiFi. Still, no go. Do 
>> others have ideas of what else I may be able to try? I have not done any 
>> other kind of configuration or customization other than the standard Apple 
>> ID and one Gmail account on it, so if I need to erase it completely and 
>> start all over, no data will get lost.
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks all for any suggestions you may offer.
>> 
>> 
>> /Raul
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
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>> 
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Re: trouble upgrading MacBook Pro 2019 to Monterey

[matthew dyer]

Hi,

I w9ould do a clean install consideringg that you are jumping several versions 
behind.   This should give you a clean install truly.

Matthew



> On Dec 27, 2021, at 10:14 AM, Raul Gallegos  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone, I have recently purchased a MacBook Pro 2019 from someone who 
> has upgraded to something else. This Mac was reset to all factory defaults 
> and there are no problems there. It is currently using Mohave and is running 
> fine. I am trying to upgrade it to the Monterey OS but running into a snag. 
> After the download is done and I choose to upgrade, the standard Agree of 
> license terms comes up. I do that, and then it gets stuck on checking with 
> (null), no percentage. No other windows seem to be open. I have tried 
> shutting it down and starting over, I have removed the install icon from the 
> Applications finder folder and re-downloaded the 12 GB size file, and I have 
> connected and reconnected it to the WiFi. Still, no go. Do others have ideas 
> of what else I may be able to try? I have not done any other kind of 
> configuration or customization other than the standard Apple ID and one Gmail 
> account on it, so if I need to erase it completely and start all over, no 
> data will get lost.
> 
> 
> Thanks all for any suggestions you may offer.
> 
> 
> /Raul
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
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> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
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Re: trouble upgrading MacBook Pro 2019 to Monterey

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

I suspect that it’s asking you to enter your password for the computer.  
Upgrading from Mojave to Monterey is perfectly normal and supported.  If just 
entering your password then pressing return does not get it started, use the 
Application Chooser, VO-f1-f1, down to system Dialogs, and there should be an 
authentication dialog waiting for your attention.

Later…


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Professional Learning Specialist
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On Dec 27, 2021, at 09:15, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> I was thinking the same thing, although the Apple help page makes it sound 
> like you should be able to upgrade directly from Mohave.
> 
>> On Dec 27, 2021, at 10:08, Brad Snyder  wrote:
>> 
>> I would try updating to macOS Catalina first, and then do the update to 
>> Monterey.
>> If you have a problem finding the Catalina installer, contact me off list, 
>> and I can get it to you.
>> 
>> HTH.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> On Dec 27, 2021, at 09:14, Raul Gallegos  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello everyone, I have recently purchased a MacBook Pro 2019 from someone 
>> who has upgraded to something else. This Mac was reset to all factory 
>> defaults and there are no problems there. It is currently using Mohave and 
>> is running fine. I am trying to upgrade it to the Monterey OS but running 
>> into a snag. After the download is done and I choose to upgrade, the 
>> standard Agree of license terms comes up. I do that, and then it gets stuck 
>> on checking with (null), no percentage. No other windows seem to be open. I 
>> have tried shutting it down and starting over, I have removed the install 
>> icon from the Applications finder folder and re-downloaded the 12 GB size 
>> file, and I have connected and reconnected it to the WiFi. Still, no go. Do 
>> others have ideas of what else I may be able to try? I have not done any 
>> other kind of configuration or customization other than the standard Apple 
>> ID and one Gmail account on it, so if I need to erase it completely and 
>> start all over, no data will get lost.
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks all for any suggestions you may offer.
>> 
>> 
>> /Raul
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
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>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
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Re: trouble upgrading MacBook Pro 2019 to Monterey

[Herbie Allen]

I was thinking the same thing, although the Apple help page makes it sound like 
you should be able to upgrade directly from Mohave.

> On Dec 27, 2021, at 10:08, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> I would try updating to macOS Catalina first, and then do the update to 
> Monterey.
> If you have a problem finding the Catalina installer, contact me off list, 
> and I can get it to you.
> 
> HTH.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> On Dec 27, 2021, at 09:14, Raul Gallegos  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone, I have recently purchased a MacBook Pro 2019 from someone 
> who has upgraded to something else. This Mac was reset to all factory 
> defaults and there are no problems there. It is currently using Mohave and is 
> running fine. I am trying to upgrade it to the Monterey OS but running into a 
> snag. After the download is done and I choose to upgrade, the standard Agree 
> of license terms comes up. I do that, and then it gets stuck on checking with 
> (null), no percentage. No other windows seem to be open. I have tried 
> shutting it down and starting over, I have removed the install icon from the 
> Applications finder folder and re-downloaded the 12 GB size file, and I have 
> connected and reconnected it to the WiFi. Still, no go. Do others have ideas 
> of what else I may be able to try? I have not done any other kind of 
> configuration or customization other than the standard Apple ID and one Gmail 
> account on it, so if I need to erase it completely and start all over, no 
> data will get lost.
> 
> 
> Thanks all for any suggestions you may offer.
> 
> 
> /Raul
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
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> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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Re: trouble upgrading MacBook Pro 2019 to Monterey

[Brad Snyder]

I would try updating to macOS Catalina first, and then do the update to 
Monterey.
If you have a problem finding the Catalina installer, contact me off list, and 
I can get it to you.

HTH.

- Brad -

On Dec 27, 2021, at 09:14, Raul Gallegos  wrote:

Hello everyone, I have recently purchased a MacBook Pro 2019 from someone who 
has upgraded to something else. This Mac was reset to all factory defaults and 
there are no problems there. It is currently using Mohave and is running fine. 
I am trying to upgrade it to the Monterey OS but running into a snag. After the 
download is done and I choose to upgrade, the standard Agree of license terms 
comes up. I do that, and then it gets stuck on checking with (null), no 
percentage. No other windows seem to be open. I have tried shutting it down and 
starting over, I have removed the install icon from the Applications finder 
folder and re-downloaded the 12 GB size file, and I have connected and 
reconnected it to the WiFi. Still, no go. Do others have ideas of what else I 
may be able to try? I have not done any other kind of configuration or 
customization other than the standard Apple ID and one Gmail account on it, so 
if I need to erase it completely and start all over, no data will get lost.


Thanks all for any suggestions you may offer.


/Raul


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trouble upgrading MacBook Pro 2019 to Monterey

[Raul Gallegos]

Hello everyone, I have recently purchased a MacBook Pro 2019 from 
someone who has upgraded to something else. This Mac was reset to all 
factory defaults and there are no problems there. It is currently using 
Mohave and is running fine. I am trying to upgrade it to the Monterey OS 
but running into a snag. After the download is done and I choose to 
upgrade, the standard Agree of license terms comes up. I do that, and 
then it gets stuck on checking with (null), no percentage. No other 
windows seem to be open. I have tried shutting it down and starting 
over, I have removed the install icon from the Applications finder 
folder and re-downloaded the 12 GB size file, and I have connected and 
reconnected it to the WiFi. Still, no go. Do others have ideas of what 
else I may be able to try? I have not done any other kind of 
configuration or customization other than the standard Apple ID and one 
Gmail account on it, so if I need to erase it completely and start all 
over, no data will get lost.



Thanks all for any suggestions you may offer.


/Raul


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Re: upgrading Mac OS

[Herbie Allen]

The apps generally work the same way, Messages has the most  changed layout and 
so does Facetime but you get used to them. Go ahead and update your  system.

> On Dec 23, 2021, at 16:01, Lorie McCloud  wrote:
> 
> I'd like some opinions on Big Sur Versus Monterey. I'm currently running 
> Catalina on a late 2014 Mac Mini and I'm thinking I should probably upgrade 
> so I don't get too far behind. is there any difference between the 2 in 
> stability or how Safari or Apple mail work? anybody know anything about how 
> podcasts works? I liked Mojave better than I do Catalina but that's just how 
> it goes.
> 
> thanks.
> Lorie
> 
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upgrading Mac OS

[Lorie McCloud]

I'd like some opinions on Big Sur Versus Monterey. I'm currently running 
Catalina on a late 2014 Mac Mini and I'm thinking I should probably upgrade so 
I don't get too far behind. is there any difference between the 2 in stability 
or how Safari or Apple mail work? anybody know anything about how podcasts 
works? I liked Mojave better than I do Catalina but that's just how it goes.

thanks.
Lorie

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Re: Anyone else noticed that notification sounds stopped working after upgrading to IOS 15?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Yep, I completely agree.  Overall, I’ve found the migration to iOS 15 
frustrating, because there’s been a lot of unexpected reconfiguring of. things. 
 I know sometimes that’s unavoidable, but I wish I’d known going into it, so I 
could have upgraded when I actually had the time to sit down and do everything.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 1, 2021, at 8:53 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna,
> 
> The “Customize” option is a cool thing, but the implementation is off in my 
> opinion.  For me, it would have been better if the overall setting cascaded 
> down to the various accounts, but you could change things in the Customize 
> option if you had the desire.  This would have made it much less confusing or 
> frustrating.
> 
> Later…
> 
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Jamf Certified Tech
> Apple Professional Learning Specialist
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
>> On Oct 1, 2021, at 7:49 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I agree - that is odd.  Seems like an unnecessary bunch of extra steps.  I 
>> just made the change on my iPad, so we’ll see what happens.  If that really 
>> is the fix, Apple should have somehow let users know that they needed to do 
>> that.  And yep, I just got an email, so that was the issue.  Thanks again, 
>> Tim.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>>> On Oct 1, 2021, at 8:13 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> It sounds like this is primarily affecting your Mail notification sounds.  
>>> This is a change, albeit odd change in my opinion, but if you go into 
>>> Settings, Notifications, Mail, then to Customize Mail notifications which 
>>> is near the bottom of the items, you can customize notifications for each 
>>> of your Mail accounts.  Enabling alerts here should bring back the alert 
>>> sounds for you.
>>> 
>>> Later…
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Jamf Certified Tech
>>> Apple Professional Learning Specialist
>>> Apple Teacher
>>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 30, 2021, at 9:34 PM, Terri Stimmel  
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello Donna, and list,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I have noticed this issue since upgrading. It is rather frustrating. I 
>>>> have an iPhone 12 Mini. As well as a series 5 watch. I don't run all the 
>>>> Apps possible on my watch, or receive all my notifications on there. So I 
>>>> can't speak for how the watch is functioning.
>>>> 
>>>> Although, I do seem to be aware of the notifications that do come to it.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> However, with my phone sometimes I will get notification sounds. Most of 
>>>> the time, I do not.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> This evening we used Uuber Eats for dinner, and I was beginning to wonder 
>>>> why I hadn't heard anything. I picked up my phone, and it is a good thing 
>>>> that I did. The delivery person was there. But while the notification was 
>>>> there, a sound didn't happen.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I sure hope if a small update is put out soon, that it fixes this issue. I 
>>>> too have tried rebooting my phone. As well as shutting off the focus 
>>>> options. But this doesn't seem to matter.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> So no, it is definitely not just you. I hope this helps. I am sorry though 
>>>> I don't have any possible solutions.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Terri
>>>> 
>>>>> On 9/30/2021 9:53 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>>>> No, that’s not it. I’ve been sitting here without my watch on because 
>>>>> it’s on the charger, and about four emails have come in within the last 
>>>>> few minutes, and I didn’t hear a sound.
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Donna
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 30, 2021, at 9:38 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn  
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Well I am not the best on this as I can easyily ignore sounds from my 
>>>>>> phone,  but it seems to me that the phone is not providing 
>>>>>> notification's  when I 

Re: Anyone else noticed that notification sounds stopped working after upgrading to IOS 15?

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Donna,

The “Customize” option is a cool thing, but the implementation is off in my 
opinion.  For me, it would have been better if the overall setting cascaded 
down to the various accounts, but you could change things in the Customize 
option if you had the desire.  This would have made it much less confusing or 
frustrating.

Later…


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Professional Learning Specialist
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On Oct 1, 2021, at 7:49 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I agree - that is odd.  Seems like an unnecessary bunch of extra steps.  I 
> just made the change on my iPad, so we’ll see what happens.  If that really 
> is the fix, Apple should have somehow let users know that they needed to do 
> that.  And yep, I just got an email, so that was the issue.  Thanks again, 
> Tim.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Oct 1, 2021, at 8:13 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> It sounds like this is primarily affecting your Mail notification sounds.  
>> This is a change, albeit odd change in my opinion, but if you go into 
>> Settings, Notifications, Mail, then to Customize Mail notifications which is 
>> near the bottom of the items, you can customize notifications for each of 
>> your Mail accounts.  Enabling alerts here should bring back the alert sounds 
>> for you.
>> 
>> Later…
>> 
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Jamf Certified Tech
>> Apple Professional Learning Specialist
>> Apple Teacher
>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>>> On Sep 30, 2021, at 9:34 PM, Terri Stimmel >> <mailto:icecreamlove...@outlook.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Donna, and list,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I have noticed this issue since upgrading. It is rather frustrating. I have 
>>> an iPhone 12 Mini. As well as a series 5 watch. I don't run all the Apps 
>>> possible on my watch, or receive all my notifications on there. So I can't 
>>> speak for how the watch is functioning.
>>> 
>>> Although, I do seem to be aware of the notifications that do come to it.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> However, with my phone sometimes I will get notification sounds. Most of 
>>> the time, I do not.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This evening we used Uuber Eats for dinner, and I was beginning to wonder 
>>> why I hadn't heard anything. I picked up my phone, and it is a good thing 
>>> that I did. The delivery person was there. But while the notification was 
>>> there, a sound didn't happen.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I sure hope if a small update is put out soon, that it fixes this issue. I 
>>> too have tried rebooting my phone. As well as shutting off the focus 
>>> options. But this doesn't seem to matter.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> So no, it is definitely not just you. I hope this helps. I am sorry though 
>>> I don't have any possible solutions.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Terri
>>> 
>>> On 9/30/2021 9:53 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>>> No, that’s not it. I’ve been sitting here without my watch on because it’s 
>>>> on the charger, and about four emails have come in within the last few 
>>>> minutes, and I didn’t hear a sound.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Donna
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 30, 2021, at 9:38 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn >>>> <mailto:jon.c.c...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Well I am not the best on this as I can easyily ignore sounds from my 
>>>>> phone,  but it seems to me that the phone is not providing notification's 
>>>>>  when I have my watch on. -test out my theory and let me know what you 
>>>>> find out.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 30, 2021, at 7:44 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>> >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have no idea. I googled it, and it was suggested that you turn off 
>>>>>> all focus options, A check in the control center to make sure that there 
>>>>>> wasn’t a focus option running, and then as a last resort reboot your 
>>>>>> phone. I’ve done all three, and nothing has helped. And I did figure out 
>>>>>

Re: Anyone else noticed that notification sounds stopped working after upgrading to IOS 15?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

I agree - that is odd.  Seems like an unnecessary bunch of extra steps.  I just 
made the change on my iPad, so we’ll see what happens.  If that really is the 
fix, Apple should have somehow let users know that they needed to do that.  And 
yep, I just got an email, so that was the issue.  Thanks again, Tim.
Cheers,
Donna


Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 1, 2021, at 8:13 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> It sounds like this is primarily affecting your Mail notification sounds.  
> This is a change, albeit odd change in my opinion, but if you go into 
> Settings, Notifications, Mail, then to Customize Mail notifications which is 
> near the bottom of the items, you can customize notifications for each of 
> your Mail accounts.  Enabling alerts here should bring back the alert sounds 
> for you.
> 
> Later…
> 
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Jamf Certified Tech
> Apple Professional Learning Specialist
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
>> On Sep 30, 2021, at 9:34 PM, Terri Stimmel  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Donna, and list,
>> 
>> 
>> I have noticed this issue since upgrading. It is rather frustrating. I have 
>> an iPhone 12 Mini. As well as a series 5 watch. I don't run all the Apps 
>> possible on my watch, or receive all my notifications on there. So I can't 
>> speak for how the watch is functioning.
>> 
>> Although, I do seem to be aware of the notifications that do come to it.
>> 
>> 
>> However, with my phone sometimes I will get notification sounds. Most of the 
>> time, I do not.
>> 
>> 
>> This evening we used Uuber Eats for dinner, and I was beginning to wonder 
>> why I hadn't heard anything. I picked up my phone, and it is a good thing 
>> that I did. The delivery person was there. But while the notification was 
>> there, a sound didn't happen.
>> 
>> 
>> I sure hope if a small update is put out soon, that it fixes this issue. I 
>> too have tried rebooting my phone. As well as shutting off the focus 
>> options. But this doesn't seem to matter.
>> 
>> 
>> So no, it is definitely not just you. I hope this helps. I am sorry though I 
>> don't have any possible solutions.
>> 
>> 
>> Terri
>> 
>>> On 9/30/2021 9:53 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> No, that’s not it. I’ve been sitting here without my watch on because it’s 
>>> on the charger, and about four emails have come in within the last few 
>>> minutes, and I didn’t hear a sound.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 30, 2021, at 9:38 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Well I am not the best on this as I can easyily ignore sounds from my 
>>>> phone,  but it seems to me that the phone is not providing notification's  
>>>> when I have my watch on. -test out my theory and let me know what you find 
>>>> out.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 30, 2021, at 7:44 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have no idea. I googled it, and it was suggested that you turn off all 
>>>>> focus options, A check in the control center to make sure that there 
>>>>> wasn’t a focus option running, and then as a last resort reboot your 
>>>>> phone. I’ve done all three, and nothing has helped. And I did figure out 
>>>>> that it is not happening on my watch, but it is happening on my phone and 
>>>>> my iPad. It’s very annoying.
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Donna
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sep 30, 2021, at 6:19 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 30/9/21 18:29, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>>>>>> So since my upgrade, I get no alert notification sounds.  This is 
>>>>>>> happening on both my iPhone and iPad.  I just updated my watch today, 
>>>>>>> so don’t know about it, yet.  Anyone know if there’s a fix for this?
>>>>>> Notification sounds are fine on my iPhone (running iOS 15), so this 
>>>>>> isn't happening to everyone. I don't know what the circumstances might 
>>>>>> be that give rise to the problem.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I've alr

Re: Anyone else noticed that notification sounds stopped working after upgrading to IOS 15?

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

It sounds like this is primarily affecting your Mail notification sounds.  This 
is a change, albeit odd change in my opinion, but if you go into Settings, 
Notifications, Mail, then to Customize Mail notifications which is near the 
bottom of the items, you can customize notifications for each of your Mail 
accounts.  Enabling alerts here should bring back the alert sounds for you.

Later…


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Professional Learning Specialist
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On Sep 30, 2021, at 9:34 PM, Terri Stimmel  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello Donna, and list,
> 
> 
> I have noticed this issue since upgrading. It is rather frustrating. I have 
> an iPhone 12 Mini. As well as a series 5 watch. I don't run all the Apps 
> possible on my watch, or receive all my notifications on there. So I can't 
> speak for how the watch is functioning.
> 
> Although, I do seem to be aware of the notifications that do come to it.
> 
> 
> However, with my phone sometimes I will get notification sounds. Most of the 
> time, I do not.
> 
> 
> This evening we used Uuber Eats for dinner, and I was beginning to wonder why 
> I hadn't heard anything. I picked up my phone, and it is a good thing that I 
> did. The delivery person was there. But while the notification was there, a 
> sound didn't happen.
> 
> 
> I sure hope if a small update is put out soon, that it fixes this issue. I 
> too have tried rebooting my phone. As well as shutting off the focus options. 
> But this doesn't seem to matter.
> 
> 
> So no, it is definitely not just you. I hope this helps. I am sorry though I 
> don't have any possible solutions.
> 
> 
> Terri
> 
> On 9/30/2021 9:53 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> No, that’s not it. I’ve been sitting here without my watch on because it’s 
>> on the charger, and about four emails have come in within the last few 
>> minutes, and I didn’t hear a sound.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 30, 2021, at 9:38 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well I am not the best on this as I can easyily ignore sounds from my 
>>> phone,  but it seems to me that the phone is not providing notification's  
>>> when I have my watch on. -test out my theory and let me know what you find 
>>> out.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 30, 2021, at 7:44 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I have no idea. I googled it, and it was suggested that you turn off all 
>>>> focus options, A check in the control center to make sure that there 
>>>> wasn’t a focus option running, and then as a last resort reboot your 
>>>> phone. I’ve done all three, and nothing has helped. And I did figure out 
>>>> that it is not happening on my watch, but it is happening on my phone and 
>>>> my iPad. It’s very annoying.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Donna
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 30, 2021, at 6:19 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 30/9/21 18:29, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>>>>> So since my upgrade, I get no alert notification sounds.  This is 
>>>>>> happening on both my iPhone and iPad.  I just updated my watch today, so 
>>>>>> don’t know about it, yet.  Anyone know if there’s a fix for this?
>>>>> Notification sounds are fine on my iPhone (running iOS 15), so this isn't 
>>>>> happening to everyone. I don't know what the circumstances might be that 
>>>>> give rise to the problem.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I've already started using the new focus options, which are a valuable 
>>>>> addition to the operating system.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.c

Re: Anyone else noticed that notification sounds stopped working after upgrading to IOS 15?

[Terri Stimmel]

Hello Donna, and list,


I have noticed this issue since upgrading. It is rather frustrating. I 
have an iPhone 12 Mini. As well as a series 5 watch. I don't run all the 
Apps possible on my watch, or receive all my notifications on there. So 
I can't speak for how the watch is functioning.


Although, I do seem to be aware of the notifications that do come to it.


However, with my phone sometimes I will get notification sounds. Most of 
the time, I do not.



This evening we used Uuber Eats for dinner, and I was beginning to 
wonder why I hadn't heard anything. I picked up my phone, and it is a 
good thing that I did. The delivery person was there. But while the 
notification was there, a sound didn't happen.



I sure hope if a small update is put out soon, that it fixes this issue. 
I too have tried rebooting my phone. As well as shutting off the focus 
options. But this doesn't seem to matter.



So no, it is definitely not just you. I hope this helps. I am sorry 
though I don't have any possible solutions.



Terri

On 9/30/2021 9:53 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:

No, that’s not it. I’ve been sitting here without my watch on because it’s on 
the charger, and about four emails have come in within the last few minutes, 
and I didn’t hear a sound.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPhone


On Sep 30, 2021, at 9:38 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn  wrote:

Well I am not the best on this as I can easyily ignore sounds from my phone,  
but it seems to me that the phone is not providing notification's  when I have 
my watch on. -test out my theory and let me know what you find out.

Sent from my iPhone


On Sep 30, 2021, at 7:44 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

I have no idea. I googled it, and it was suggested that you turn off all focus 
options, A check in the control center to make sure that there wasn’t a focus 
option running, and then as a last resort reboot your phone. I’ve done all 
three, and nothing has helped. And I did figure out that it is not happening on 
my watch, but it is happening on my phone and my iPad. It’s very annoying.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPhone


On Sep 30, 2021, at 6:19 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:



On 30/9/21 18:29, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:

So since my upgrade, I get no alert notification sounds.  This is happening on 
both my iPhone and iPad.  I just updated my watch today, so don’t know about 
it, yet.  Anyone know if there’s a fix for this?

Notification sounds are fine on my iPhone (running iOS 15), so this isn't 
happening to everyone. I don't know what the circumstances might be that give 
rise to the problem.

I've already started using the new focus options, which are a valuable addition 
to the operating system.

--
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If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Anyone else noticed that notification sounds stopped working after upgrading to IOS 15?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

No, that’s not it. I’ve been sitting here without my watch on because it’s on 
the charger, and about four emails have come in within the last few minutes, 
and I didn’t hear a sound.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 30, 2021, at 9:38 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn  wrote:
> 
> Well I am not the best on this as I can easyily ignore sounds from my phone, 
>  but it seems to me that the phone is not providing notification's  when I 
> have my watch on. -test out my theory and let me know what you find out. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 30, 2021, at 7:44 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I have no idea. I googled it, and it was suggested that you turn off all 
>> focus options, A check in the control center to make sure that there wasn’t 
>> a focus option running, and then as a last resort reboot your phone. I’ve 
>> done all three, and nothing has helped. And I did figure out that it is not 
>> happening on my watch, but it is happening on my phone and my iPad. It’s 
>> very annoying.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Sep 30, 2021, at 6:19 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
> On 30/9/21 18:29, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
 So since my upgrade, I get no alert notification sounds.  This is 
 happening on both my iPhone and iPad.  I just updated my watch today, so 
 don’t know about it, yet.  Anyone know if there’s a fix for this?
>>> 
>>> Notification sounds are fine on my iPhone (running iOS 15), so this isn't 
>>> happening to everyone. I don't know what the circumstances might be that 
>>> give rise to the problem.
>>> 
>>> I've already started using the new focus options, which are a valuable 
>>> addition to the operating system.
>>> 
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>> 
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Re: Anyone else noticed that notification sounds stopped working after upgrading to IOS 15?

[Jonathan C. Cohn]

Well I am not the best on this as I can easyily ignore sounds from my phone,  
but it seems to me that the phone is not providing notification's  when I have 
my watch on. -test out my theory and let me know what you find out. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 30, 2021, at 7:44 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have no idea. I googled it, and it was suggested that you turn off all 
> focus options, A check in the control center to make sure that there wasn’t a 
> focus option running, and then as a last resort reboot your phone. I’ve done 
> all three, and nothing has helped. And I did figure out that it is not 
> happening on my watch, but it is happening on my phone and my iPad. It’s very 
> annoying.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 30, 2021, at 6:19 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
 On 30/9/21 18:29, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> So since my upgrade, I get no alert notification sounds.  This is happening 
>>> on both my iPhone and iPad.  I just updated my watch today, so don’t know 
>>> about it, yet.  Anyone know if there’s a fix for this?
>> 
>> Notification sounds are fine on my iPhone (running iOS 15), so this isn't 
>> happening to everyone. I don't know what the circumstances might be that 
>> give rise to the problem.
>> 
>> I've already started using the new focus options, which are a valuable 
>> addition to the operating system.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
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>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
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>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
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>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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> 
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Re: Anyone else noticed that notification sounds stopped working after upgrading to IOS 15?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

I have no idea. I googled it, and it was suggested that you turn off all focus 
options, A check in the control center to make sure that there wasn’t a focus 
option running, and then as a last resort reboot your phone. I’ve done all 
three, and nothing has helped. And I did figure out that it is not happening on 
my watch, but it is happening on my phone and my iPad. It’s very annoying.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 30, 2021, at 6:19 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 30/9/21 18:29, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> So since my upgrade, I get no alert notification sounds.  This is happening 
>> on both my iPhone and iPad.  I just updated my watch today, so don’t know 
>> about it, yet.  Anyone know if there’s a fix for this?
> 
> Notification sounds are fine on my iPhone (running iOS 15), so this isn't 
> happening to everyone. I don't know what the circumstances might be that give 
> rise to the problem.
> 
> I've already started using the new focus options, which are a valuable 
> addition to the operating system.
> 
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> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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Re: Anyone else noticed that notification sounds stopped working after upgrading to IOS 15?

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

On 30/9/21 18:29, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:

So since my upgrade, I get no alert notification sounds.  This is happening on 
both my iPhone and iPad.  I just updated my watch today, so don’t know about 
it, yet.  Anyone know if there’s a fix for this?


Notification sounds are fine on my iPhone (running iOS 15), so this 
isn't happening to everyone. I don't know what the circumstances might 
be that give rise to the problem.


I've already started using the new focus options, which are a valuable 
addition to the operating system.


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Anyone else noticed that notification sounds stopped working after upgrading to IOS 15?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

So since my upgrade, I get no alert notification sounds.  This is happening on 
both my iPhone and iPad.  I just updated my watch today, so don’t know about 
it, yet.  Anyone know if there’s a fix for this?
TIA,
Donna

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Opening Music for the first time after upgrading to Big Sur

[Muhammad Fayed]

Hi,

I’ve recently upgraded to Mac OS Big Sur and I ant to play my music. I was 
asked to choose a music library or create a new one. I want to use my existing 
library. Where could I find it?!

Thank you so much,

Regards,

Mohamed E. Fayed 

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Re: mac OS big sur, compact list of questions after upgrading

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

As for the timed chime sound, check for system dialogs that want attention.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com
Https://devinprater.github.io

> On Nov 14, 2020, at 9:43 AM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> How are you trying to expand/collapse subdirectories in the finder’s list 
> view? Move to a subdirectory and type VO-Backslash to expand/collapse it. Let 
> us know whether that works.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 13, 2020, at 23:15, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi ALl,
>> 
>> I've upgraded to mac OS big sur, and it has solved some issues and created 
>> some new ones. I will adress myself to this list to ask if anyone has found 
>> solutions to the issues below:
>> 1-Finder in list mode does not navigate sub directories anymore, so I am 
>> having to use list view instead of column view. List view is significantly 
>> slower as you need to expand folders, and you're actually expanding the 
>> entire directory tree, rather than jumping into the sub directory and 
>> searching within that directory. Anyone have this problem and anyone found a 
>> solution to this?
>> 2-There's a sound that keeps playing intermittently, like some kind of timed 
>> sound (the chime is like the older bonk type sound from catalina). It's 
>> driving me absolutely crazy. I went to notifications, turned everything off, 
>> but it still keeps on playing. Anyone got this as well, and for god's sake, 
>> has anyone found a way to turn it off?
>> 3-The touch bar, to my taste, is very clunky and slow to react sometimes. 
>> This is a major issue as I map most of my function keys to application 
>> shortcuts so I can quickly switch between apps. On some occasions, the touch 
>> bar literally doesn't respond no matter what I do. this is a flawed design 
>> decision, whether hardware or software, and it has decreased my 
>> productivity. Anyone encountered this problem, anyone found a solution or 
>> reported a bug?
>> 
>> Apart from the above, seems my voice over has stopped freezing regularly. I 
>> got a new macbook 16 inch, all boosted to the max, and this still occured, 
>> so I was very annoyed, having to toggleVO on and off each time. This is 
>> gone, so one good for 3 bads.
>> 
>> Have a great weekend,
>> 
>> Yuma 
>> 
>> -- 
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Re: mac OS big sur, compact list of questions after upgrading

[Greg Wocher]

Hello,
I am also seeing the issues with column view in the finder. A work around is to 
use VO plus left and right arrows instead of just the arrow keys. Also make 
sure you interact using VO plus shift plus down arrow. This is a bug that has 
been reported to apple.

Greg Wocher


> On Nov 14, 2020, at 10:43 AM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> How are you trying to expand/collapse subdirectories in the finder’s list 
> view? Move to a subdirectory and type VO-Backslash to expand/collapse it. Let 
> us know whether that works.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 13, 2020, at 23:15, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi ALl,
>> 
>> I've upgraded to mac OS big sur, and it has solved some issues and created 
>> some new ones. I will adress myself to this list to ask if anyone has found 
>> solutions to the issues below:
>> 1-Finder in list mode does not navigate sub directories anymore, so I am 
>> having to use list view instead of column view. List view is significantly 
>> slower as you need to expand folders, and you're actually expanding the 
>> entire directory tree, rather than jumping into the sub directory and 
>> searching within that directory. Anyone have this problem and anyone found a 
>> solution to this?
>> 2-There's a sound that keeps playing intermittently, like some kind of timed 
>> sound (the chime is like the older bonk type sound from catalina). It's 
>> driving me absolutely crazy. I went to notifications, turned everything off, 
>> but it still keeps on playing. Anyone got this as well, and for god's sake, 
>> has anyone found a way to turn it off?
>> 3-The touch bar, to my taste, is very clunky and slow to react sometimes. 
>> This is a major issue as I map most of my function keys to application 
>> shortcuts so I can quickly switch between apps. On some occasions, the touch 
>> bar literally doesn't respond no matter what I do. this is a flawed design 
>> decision, whether hardware or software, and it has decreased my 
>> productivity. Anyone encountered this problem, anyone found a solution or 
>> reported a bug?
>> 
>> Apart from the above, seems my voice over has stopped freezing regularly. I 
>> got a new macbook 16 inch, all boosted to the max, and this still occured, 
>> so I was very annoyed, having to toggleVO on and off each time. This is 
>> gone, so one good for 3 bads.
>> 
>> Have a great weekend,
>> 
>> Yuma 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
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>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: mac OS big sur, compact list of questions after upgrading

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

How are you trying to expand/collapse subdirectories in the finder’s list view? 
Move to a subdirectory and type VO-Backslash to expand/collapse it. Let us know 
whether that works.



> On Nov 13, 2020, at 23:15, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
> 
> Hi ALl,
> 
> I've upgraded to mac OS big sur, and it has solved some issues and created 
> some new ones. I will adress myself to this list to ask if anyone has found 
> solutions to the issues below:
> 1-Finder in list mode does not navigate sub directories anymore, so I am 
> having to use list view instead of column view. List view is significantly 
> slower as you need to expand folders, and you're actually expanding the 
> entire directory tree, rather than jumping into the sub directory and 
> searching within that directory. Anyone have this problem and anyone found a 
> solution to this?
> 2-There's a sound that keeps playing intermittently, like some kind of timed 
> sound (the chime is like the older bonk type sound from catalina). It's 
> driving me absolutely crazy. I went to notifications, turned everything off, 
> but it still keeps on playing. Anyone got this as well, and for god's sake, 
> has anyone found a way to turn it off?
> 3-The touch bar, to my taste, is very clunky and slow to react sometimes. 
> This is a major issue as I map most of my function keys to application 
> shortcuts so I can quickly switch between apps. On some occasions, the touch 
> bar literally doesn't respond no matter what I do. this is a flawed design 
> decision, whether hardware or software, and it has decreased my productivity. 
> Anyone encountered this problem, anyone found a solution or reported a bug?
> 
> Apart from the above, seems my voice over has stopped freezing regularly. I 
> got a new macbook 16 inch, all boosted to the max, and this still occured, so 
> I was very annoyed, having to toggleVO on and off each time. This is gone, so 
> one good for 3 bads.
> 
> Have a great weekend,
> 
> Yuma 
> 
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Re: mac OS big sur, compact list of questions after upgrading

[Herbie Allen]

I will answer some of yours and ask one of mine. First, column view, you now 
have to VO Right and Left Arrow to get in and out of folders. The extra sound 
you are hearing I think is the image recognition which you will find options 
for in VO preferences.
My issue. I use Siri to make phone calls. With Big Sur, I’m stuck in a Siri 
notification window during the call and cannot access the FaceTime window to 
end the call.


> On Nov 13, 2020, at 22:15, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
> 
> Hi ALl,
> 
> I've upgraded to mac OS big sur, and it has solved some issues and created 
> some new ones. I will adress myself to this list to ask if anyone has found 
> solutions to the issues below:
> 1-Finder in list mode does not navigate sub directories anymore, so I am 
> having to use list view instead of column view. List view is significantly 
> slower as you need to expand folders, and you're actually expanding the 
> entire directory tree, rather than jumping into the sub directory and 
> searching within that directory. Anyone have this problem and anyone found a 
> solution to this?
> 2-There's a sound that keeps playing intermittently, like some kind of timed 
> sound (the chime is like the older bonk type sound from catalina). It's 
> driving me absolutely crazy. I went to notifications, turned everything off, 
> but it still keeps on playing. Anyone got this as well, and for god's sake, 
> has anyone found a way to turn it off?
> 3-The touch bar, to my taste, is very clunky and slow to react sometimes. 
> This is a major issue as I map most of my function keys to application 
> shortcuts so I can quickly switch between apps. On some occasions, the touch 
> bar literally doesn't respond no matter what I do. this is a flawed design 
> decision, whether hardware or software, and it has decreased my productivity. 
> Anyone encountered this problem, anyone found a solution or reported a bug?
> 
> Apart from the above, seems my voice over has stopped freezing regularly. I 
> got a new macbook 16 inch, all boosted to the max, and this still occured, so 
> I was very annoyed, having to toggleVO on and off each time. This is gone, so 
> one good for 3 bads.
> 
> Have a great weekend,
> 
> Yuma 
> 
> -- 
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> 
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mac OS big sur, compact list of questions after upgrading

[Yuma Decaux]

Hi ALl,

I've upgraded to mac OS big sur, and it has solved some issues and created some 
new ones. I will adress myself to this list to ask if anyone has found 
solutions to the issues below:
1-Finder in list mode does not navigate sub directories anymore, so I am having 
to use list view instead of column view. List view is significantly slower as 
you need to expand folders, and you're actually expanding the entire directory 
tree, rather than jumping into the sub directory and searching within that 
directory. Anyone have this problem and anyone found a solution to this?
2-There's a sound that keeps playing intermittently, like some kind of timed 
sound (the chime is like the older bonk type sound from catalina). It's driving 
me absolutely crazy. I went to notifications, turned everything off, but it 
still keeps on playing. Anyone got this as well, and for god's sake, has anyone 
found a way to turn it off?
3-The touch bar, to my taste, is very clunky and slow to react sometimes. This 
is a major issue as I map most of my function keys to application shortcuts so 
I can quickly switch between apps. On some occasions, the touch bar literally 
doesn't respond no matter what I do. this is a flawed design decision, whether 
hardware or software, and it has decreased my productivity. Anyone encountered 
this problem, anyone found a solution or reported a bug?

Apart from the above, seems my voice over has stopped freezing regularly. I got 
a new macbook 16 inch, all boosted to the max, and this still occured, so I was 
very annoyed, having to toggleVO on and off each time. This is gone, so one 
good for 3 bads.

Have a great weekend,

Yuma 

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Re: After upgrading to Watch 7, my watch no longer speaks the time when I tap it

[Robin]

What?  "No Time" from Apple's TimePiece, & I'm 
Referrin'To Apple's AppleWatch? Guess "we" 
as  TotallyBlind  are LeftOut again. One would 
Expect  "The Time" from a  TimePiece, Wouldn't They?


At 05:50 AM 9/17/2020, you wrote:

Hi all,

This morning I upgraded to Watch 7, and now when 
I tap the watch it remains silent. I have to 
scroll up or down to get it to speak the time. 
Has anyone else experienced this? Beta testers, 
is this a known bug? I’ve got a series 4 and am using the modular face.

Thanks,
Donna


Sent from my iPad

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Re: After upgrading to Watch 7, my watch no longer speaks the time when I tap it

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

So, I use the modular face, which has five complications. If I tap the watch 
once, it wakes up. If I tap it a second time, it announces the info for 
whichever complication I happened to tap.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Sep 17, 2020, at 12:57 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> What do you mean by that?
> I really didn’t get that.
> /A
> 
>> 17 sep. 2020 kl. 18:40 skrev 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> :
>> 
>> Oh, you are right. How interesting. It does seem like it will minimize the 
>> watch starting to prattle when you don't want it too. :) However, I have 
>> noticed that it doesn't necessarily speak the time on the second tap. It 
>> seems to depend on where you tap, announcing whatever the icon is that you 
>> tap. That will take some getting used to.
>> Best,
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 17, 2020, at 10:25 AM, joseph hodge  wrote:
>>> 
>>> So I actually think this is not a bug it’s just a change of behavior. So 
>>> for me on a series 4 if I tap once it wakes up the display I’m assuming if 
>>> I tap a second time speaks the time is normal. The thing I like about this 
>>> is if I tap once and then do a double tap it vibrates the time with no 
>>> misfiring a voice over speaking. 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Sep 17, 2020, at 9:03 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 Good to know. I think I’ll contact Accessibility.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
> On Sep 17, 2020, at 7:56 AM, 'Harry Bell' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have tge same problem with my Watch Series 4
> Harry in uk
> 
>>> On 17 Sep 2020, at 13:50, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> This morning I upgraded to Watch 7, and now when I tap the watch it 
>> remains silent. I have to scroll up or down to get it to speak the time. 
>> Has anyone else experienced this? Beta testers, is this a known bug? 
>> I’ve got a series 4 and am using the modular face.
>> Thanks,
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
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>> Visionaries list.
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Re: After upgrading to Watch 7, my watch no longer speaks the time when I tap it

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Another thing I figured out, is that pressing the digital crown causes the 
watch to speak the time. That may have been true before, but I don't know, I'd 
never tried it.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Sep 17, 2020, at 12:56 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Well that would be nice if it stopped speaking when double tapping.
> I haven’t upgraded yet but will do.
> /A
> 
>> 17 sep. 2020 kl. 17:25 skrev joseph hodge :
>> 
>> So I actually think this is not a bug it’s just a change of behavior. So for 
>> me on a series 4 if I tap once it wakes up the display I’m assuming if I tap 
>> a second time speaks the time is normal. The thing I like about this is if I 
>> tap once and then do a double tap it vibrates the time with no misfiring a 
>> voice over speaking. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 17, 2020, at 9:03 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Good to know. I think I’ll contact Accessibility.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
 On Sep 17, 2020, at 7:56 AM, 'Harry Bell' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 I have tge same problem with my Watch Series 4
 Harry in uk
 
>> On 17 Sep 2020, at 13:50, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> This morning I upgraded to Watch 7, and now when I tap the watch it 
> remains silent. I have to scroll up or down to get it to speak the time. 
> Has anyone else experienced this? Beta testers, is this a known bug? I’ve 
> got a series 4 and am using the modular face.
> Thanks,
> Donna
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> -- 
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Re: After upgrading to Watch 7, my watch no longer speaks the time when I tap it

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
What do you mean by that?
I really didn’t get that.
/A

> 17 sep. 2020 kl. 18:40 skrev 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
> :
> 
> Oh, you are right. How interesting. It does seem like it will minimize the 
> watch starting to prattle when you don't want it too. :) However, I have 
> noticed that it doesn't necessarily speak the time on the second tap. It 
> seems to depend on where you tap, announcing whatever the icon is that you 
> tap. That will take some getting used to.
> Best,
> Donna
> 
> 
>> On Sep 17, 2020, at 10:25 AM, joseph hodge  wrote:
>> 
>> So I actually think this is not a bug it’s just a change of behavior. So for 
>> me on a series 4 if I tap once it wakes up the display I’m assuming if I tap 
>> a second time speaks the time is normal. The thing I like about this is if I 
>> tap once and then do a double tap it vibrates the time with no misfiring a 
>> voice over speaking. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 17, 2020, at 9:03 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Good to know. I think I’ll contact Accessibility.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
 On Sep 17, 2020, at 7:56 AM, 'Harry Bell' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 I have tge same problem with my Watch Series 4
 Harry in uk
 
>> On 17 Sep 2020, at 13:50, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> This morning I upgraded to Watch 7, and now when I tap the watch it 
> remains silent. I have to scroll up or down to get it to speak the time. 
> Has anyone else experienced this? Beta testers, is this a known bug? I’ve 
> got a series 4 and am using the modular face.
> Thanks,
> Donna
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> -- 
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> 
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>> 
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Re: After upgrading to Watch 7, my watch no longer speaks the time when I tap it

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Well that would be nice if it stopped speaking when double tapping.
I haven’t upgraded yet but will do.
/A

> 17 sep. 2020 kl. 17:25 skrev joseph hodge :
> 
> So I actually think this is not a bug it’s just a change of behavior. So for 
> me on a series 4 if I tap once it wakes up the display I’m assuming if I tap 
> a second time speaks the time is normal. The thing I like about this is if I 
> tap once and then do a double tap it vibrates the time with no misfiring a 
> voice over speaking. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 17, 2020, at 9:03 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Good to know. I think I’ll contact Accessibility.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Sep 17, 2020, at 7:56 AM, 'Harry Bell' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have tge same problem with my Watch Series 4
>>> Harry in uk
>>> 
> On 17 Sep 2020, at 13:50, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 This morning I upgraded to Watch 7, and now when I tap the watch it 
 remains silent. I have to scroll up or down to get it to speak the time. 
 Has anyone else experienced this? Beta testers, is this a known bug? I’ve 
 got a series 4 and am using the modular face.
 Thanks,
 Donna
 
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
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Re: After upgrading to Watch 7, my watch no longer speaks the time when I tap it

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Oh, you are right. How interesting. It does seem like it will minimize the 
watch starting to prattle when you don't want it too. :) However, I have 
noticed that it doesn't necessarily speak the time on the second tap. It seems 
to depend on where you tap, announcing whatever the icon is that you tap. That 
will take some getting used to.
Best,
Donna
 

> On Sep 17, 2020, at 10:25 AM, joseph hodge  wrote:
> 
> So I actually think this is not a bug it’s just a change of behavior. So for 
> me on a series 4 if I tap once it wakes up the display I’m assuming if I tap 
> a second time speaks the time is normal. The thing I like about this is if I 
> tap once and then do a double tap it vibrates the time with no misfiring a 
> voice over speaking. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 17, 2020, at 9:03 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Good to know. I think I’ll contact Accessibility.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Sep 17, 2020, at 7:56 AM, 'Harry Bell' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have tge same problem with my Watch Series 4
>>> Harry in uk
>>> 
> On 17 Sep 2020, at 13:50, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 This morning I upgraded to Watch 7, and now when I tap the watch it 
 remains silent. I have to scroll up or down to get it to speak the time. 
 Has anyone else experienced this? Beta testers, is this a known bug? I’ve 
 got a series 4 and am using the modular face.
 Thanks,
 Donna
 
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
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Re: After upgrading to Watch 7, my watch no longer speaks the time when I tap it

['Harry Bell' via MacVisionaries]

Joseph
Now I’ve tried what you described, I think you may well be right! Before the 
update, I did sometimes find that a double tap on the screen when asleep would 
lead to time being announced rather than haptic time - so this does work  better
Harry

> On 17 Sep 2020, at 16:25, joseph hodge  wrote:
> 
> So I actually think this is not a bug it’s just a change of behavior. So for 
> me on a series 4 if I tap once it wakes up the display I’m assuming if I tap 
> a second time speaks the time is normal. The thing I like about this is if I 
> tap once and then do a double tap it vibrates the time with no misfiring a 
> voice over speaking. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 17, 2020, at 9:03 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Good to know. I think I’ll contact Accessibility.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
 On Sep 17, 2020, at 7:56 AM, 'Harry Bell' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have tge same problem with my Watch Series 4
>>> Harry in uk
>>> 
> On 17 Sep 2020, at 13:50, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 This morning I upgraded to Watch 7, and now when I tap the watch it 
 remains silent. I have to scroll up or down to get it to speak the time. 
 Has anyone else experienced this? Beta testers, is this a known bug? I’ve 
 got a series 4 and am using the modular face.
 Thanks,
 Donna
 
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
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Re: After upgrading to Watch 7, my watch no longer speaks the time when I tap it

[joseph hodge]

So I actually think this is not a bug it’s just a change of behavior. So for me 
on a series 4 if I tap once it wakes up the display I’m assuming if I tap a 
second time speaks the time is normal. The thing I like about this is if I tap 
once and then do a double tap it vibrates the time with no misfiring a voice 
over speaking. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 17, 2020, at 9:03 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Good to know. I think I’ll contact Accessibility.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Sep 17, 2020, at 7:56 AM, 'Harry Bell' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I have tge same problem with my Watch Series 4
>> Harry in uk
>> 
 On 17 Sep 2020, at 13:50, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> This morning I upgraded to Watch 7, and now when I tap the watch it remains 
>>> silent. I have to scroll up or down to get it to speak the time. Has anyone 
>>> else experienced this? Beta testers, is this a known bug? I’ve got a series 
>>> 4 and am using the modular face.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
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Re: After upgrading to Watch 7, my watch no longer speaks the time when I tap it

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Good to know. I think I’ll contact Accessibility.
Cheers,
Donna


Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 17, 2020, at 7:56 AM, 'Harry Bell' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have tge same problem with my Watch Series 4
> Harry in uk
> 
>> On 17 Sep 2020, at 13:50, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> This morning I upgraded to Watch 7, and now when I tap the watch it remains 
>> silent. I have to scroll up or down to get it to speak the time. Has anyone 
>> else experienced this? Beta testers, is this a known bug? I’ve got a series 
>> 4 and am using the modular face.
>> Thanks,
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
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Re: After upgrading to Watch 7, my watch no longer speaks the time when I tap it

['Harry Bell' via MacVisionaries]

I have tge same problem with my Watch Series 4
Harry in uk

> On 17 Sep 2020, at 13:50, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> This morning I upgraded to Watch 7, and now when I tap the watch it remains 
> silent. I have to scroll up or down to get it to speak the time. Has anyone 
> else experienced this? Beta testers, is this a known bug? I’ve got a series 4 
> and am using the modular face.
> Thanks,
> Donna
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
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After upgrading to Watch 7, my watch no longer speaks the time when I tap it

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi all,

This morning I upgraded to Watch 7, and now when I tap the watch it remains 
silent. I have to scroll up or down to get it to speak the time. Has anyone 
else experienced this? Beta testers, is this a known bug? I’ve got a series 4 
and am using the modular face.
Thanks,
Donna


Sent from my iPad

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Re: Group wisdom on upgrading to Catalina?

[Eric Caron]

Hi folks,

I did the upgrade and all went well.  No longer able to use my 32 bit 
version of Microsoft word.  But, for my purposes Pages seems to be working out 
very nicely and I have Text Edit as well for some things. 

I am not sure I want to add more to my learning curve right now with 
Windows. 

Thanks for the tips and encouragement. 

One note.  In a earlier thread about back up solutions I mentioned liking 
Carbon Copy Cloner.  In the process of upgrading I needed again to give Carbon 
Copy Cloner some permissions.  This was not easy to do.  They wanted me to drag 
a file into a table.  It was a fish icon.

I remember years ago writing to the developer and explaining it was not easy 
for a blind person using voice over to do.   It has not been changed.

He did send me a way to do it but it was not easy and  ended up just having my 
sighted partner drag it over.


So, though I have not used Super Duper I’d take the advice given by Robert 
Carter and go that route  for a application that does Cloning. 

I’ll stick to what I have as it is working and paid for but I won’t upgrade it 
in the future.

So far, I’m enjoying Catalina.

Eric Caron 



> On Mar 13, 2020, at 1:53 AM, 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Well I've been beta testing Catalina when it first got released to developers 
> and I love it. The thing that sold me the most about it is the fact that we 
> can now use the Siri voices with Voiceover like we could on iOS.
> 
> Regards,
> Shawn,
> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
> 
> Want to join my WhatsApp groups such as Echo Enthusiasts, Accessibility 
> Matters or my new group, Mac Users And Newbies? Send me a private email with 
> your contact information and I'll happily add you.
> 
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
>> On Mar 12, 2020, at 11:07 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> I think you should upgrade as you get the latest security then.
>> It works quite well for most of the time.
>> There are some issues for me with braille and i guess this wont be fixed for 
>> quite some time since braille isn’t quite important for apple.
>> But things work as they should.
>> Be aware thought that Itunes is gone and you have to learn the new music app.
>> /A
>> 
>>> 12 mars 2020 kl. 00:32 skrev Eric Caron :
>>> 
>>> Hi folks,
>>> 
>>> Now that I’m back on list I have a bit more confidence about upgrading. 
>>> 
>>> I’m wondering if the group feels like Catalina is now functioning well and 
>>> worth upgrading or are many people sticking with a past OS?  I’m currently 
>>> working in Mojave.
>>> 
>>> Eric Caron 
>>> 
>>> -- 
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Re: Group wisdom on upgrading to Catalina?

['Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries]

Well I've been beta testing Catalina when it first got released to developers 
and I love it. The thing that sold me the most about it is the fact that we can 
now use the Siri voices with Voiceover like we could on iOS.

Regards,
Shawn,
Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air

Want to join my WhatsApp groups such as Echo Enthusiasts, Accessibility Matters 
or my new group, Mac Users And Newbies? Send me a private email with your 
contact information and I'll happily add you.

Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Mar 12, 2020, at 11:07 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> I think you should upgrade as you get the latest security then.
> It works quite well for most of the time.
> There are some issues for me with braille and i guess this wont be fixed for 
> quite some time since braille isn’t quite important for apple.
> But things work as they should.
> Be aware thought that Itunes is gone and you have to learn the new music app.
> /A
> 
>> 12 mars 2020 kl. 00:32 skrev Eric Caron :
>> 
>> Hi folks,
>> 
>> Now that I’m back on list I have a bit more confidence about upgrading. 
>> 
>> I’m wondering if the group feels like Catalina is now functioning well and 
>> worth upgrading or are many people sticking with a past OS?  I’m currently 
>> working in Mojave.
>> 
>> Eric Caron 
>> 
>> -- 
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>> 
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>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
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>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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Re: Group wisdom on upgrading to Catalina?

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
I think you should upgrade as you get the latest security then.
It works quite well for most of the time.
There are some issues for me with braille and i guess this wont be fixed for 
quite some time since braille isn’t quite important for apple.
But things work as they should.
Be aware thought that Itunes is gone and you have to learn the new music app.
/A

> 12 mars 2020 kl. 00:32 skrev Eric Caron :
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> Now that I’m back on list I have a bit more confidence about upgrading. 
> 
> I’m wondering if the group feels like Catalina is now functioning well and 
> worth upgrading or are many people sticking with a past OS?  I’m currently 
> working in Mojave.
> 
> Eric Caron 
> 
> -- 
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> 
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> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Group wisdom on upgrading to Catalina?

['E.T.' via MacVisionaries]

   Other than no more 32-bit support and iTunes having been replaced by 
3 apps- Music, TV, and Podcasts, and some minor changes here and there, 
it is stable. I installed Catalina soon after its release.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 3/11/2020 4:32 PM, Eric Caron wrote:

Hi folks,

Now that I’m back on list I have a bit more confidence about upgrading.

I’m wondering if the group feels like Catalina is now functioning well and 
worth upgrading or are many people sticking with a past OS?  I’m currently 
working in Mojave.

Eric Caron



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Re: Group wisdom on upgrading to Catalina?

[Bradford Snyder]

I did the upgrade to Catalina on both my Macs about 4 months ago, and have had 
no issues with either the OS or VoiceOver.  The Catalina OS seems pretty solid. 
 Unless you have 32-bit apps you can’t live without, I’d go ahead and do the 
upgrade.

- Brad -



On Mar 11, 2020, at 20:00, Brandon Olivares  wrote:

I’d upgrade. I did a few weeks ago and I love it. It’s much faster to me.

> On Mar 11, 2020, at 10:59 PM, Lorie McCloud  wrote:
> 
> I decided to just wait until the next os comes out this fall. from my past 
> experience I would say that it's likely to be a better version of Catalina. I 
> like Mojave just fine so I can wait.
> 
>> On Mar 11, 2020, at 6:32 PM, Eric Caron  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi folks,
>> 
>> Now that I’m back on list I have a bit more confidence about upgrading. 
>> 
>> I’m wondering if the group feels like Catalina is now functioning well and 
>> worth upgrading or are many people sticking with a past OS?  I’m currently 
>> working in Mojave.
>> 
>> Eric Caron 
>> 
>> -- 
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Re: Group wisdom on upgrading to Catalina?

[Brandon Olivares]

I’d upgrade. I did a few weeks ago and I love it. It’s much faster to me.

> On Mar 11, 2020, at 10:59 PM, Lorie McCloud  wrote:
> 
> I decided to just wait until the next os comes out this fall. from my past 
> experience I would say that it's likely to be a better version of Catalina. I 
> like Mojave just fine so I can wait.
> 
>> On Mar 11, 2020, at 6:32 PM, Eric Caron  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi folks,
>> 
>> Now that I’m back on list I have a bit more confidence about upgrading. 
>> 
>> I’m wondering if the group feels like Catalina is now functioning well and 
>> worth upgrading or are many people sticking with a past OS?  I’m currently 
>> working in Mojave.
>> 
>> Eric Caron 
>> 
>> -- 
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