[gtkmm] Gdk::Pixbuf::create_from_file() segmentation fault in maemo
Hi all, I got problem trying to load an image to a gtkmm using pixbuf's create_from_file() in scratchbox. Here is the snippet of code: std::auto_ptrGlib::Error err; cout Start to load logo endl; image = Gdk::Pixbuf::create_from_file(./icons/logo.png,err); Glib::ustring err_str = err2-what(); cout Error message = err_strendl; cout Finish to load logo endl; These lines are taken from a DrawingArea widget's constructor with 'image' variable of type Glib::RefPtrGdk::Pixbuf. The output is: Start to load i2rlogo qemu: uncaught target signal 11 (Segmentation fault) - exiting if I change the path to the image file that makes it wrong path, no segmentation fault error: Start to load logo Error message = Failed to open file './icons/home.png': No such file or directory Finish to load logo Could anyone suggest the reason behind this? Regards ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: sqlite3 CLI?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which package do I need to install to have the sqlite3 command-line tool available ? There is no such package in SDK repository, you should install sqlite3 but this one is disabled in maemo patch for sqlite3 so you need to rebuild it from source and revert part of sqlite3_3.4.1-1osso3.diff.gz patch which disables it. http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/s/sqlite3/ I had same problem some time ago, my build for chinook is here http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/sqlite3_3.4.1-1osso3_armel.deb Frantisek ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [gtkmm] Gdk::Pixbuf::create_from_file() segmentation fault in maemo
On Mon, 2008-06-02 at 15:25 +0800, Dinh Khac Thanh wrote: Hi all, I got problem trying to load an image to a gtkmm using pixbuf's create_from_file() in scratchbox. Here is the snippet of code: std::auto_ptrGlib::Error err; cout Start to load logo endl; image = Gdk::Pixbuf::create_from_file(./icons/logo.png,err); Glib::ustring err_str = err2-what(); You need to check pointers for NULL before dereferencing them. That's basic C++. For instance; if(err) std::cout Error message = err-what() std::endl; else std::cout Succeeded std::endl; cout Error message = err_strendl; cout Finish to load logo endl; These lines are taken from a DrawingArea widget's constructor with 'image' variable of type Glib::RefPtrGdk::Pixbuf. The output is: Start to load i2rlogo qemu: uncaught target signal 11 (Segmentation fault) - exiting if I change the path to the image file that makes it wrong path, no segmentation fault error: Start to load logo Error message = Failed to open file './icons/home.png': No such file or directory Finish to load logo Could anyone suggest the reason behind this? Regards ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers -- Murray Cumming [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
console curses application
Hi,
It's my first experience in development on maemo platform. I'm developing ca
console application.
I have downloaded virtual machine and have tried to run some sample
applicatons.
But all examples I have seen have GUI interface, so I have the several
questions:
1. How can I run a console apptiocation on scratchbox?
If i run sample GUI appplictions (./example1.py) I can found running
aaplication on the Xephyr window.
But if I run hello-world console application I don't see any effect.
2. Is there curses library on maemo platform? I have found the 'top' program
on N810,
so I suppose the answer is 'yes'. But when I try to include the header
(#include curses.h)
scratchbox cannot find this header. Where can I find a simple example of
curses application?
Something like this:
#include unistd.h
#include stdlib.h
#include curses.h
int main() {
initscr();
move(5, 15);
printw(“%s”, “Hello World”);
refresh();
sleep(2);
endwin();
exit(EXIT_SUCCESS);
}
3. Can I create console application on python with curses library? I need
somthing like:
import curses
#
Thanks in advance,
Andrey
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Re: console curses application
Hi,
It's my first experience in development on maemo platform. I'm developing ca
console application.
I have downloaded virtual machine and have tried to run some sample
applicatons.
But all examples I have seen have GUI interface, so I have the several
questions:
1. How can I run a console apptiocation on scratchbox?
If i run sample GUI appplictions (./example1.py) I can found running
aaplication on the Xephyr window.
But if I run hello-world console application I don't see any effect.
So it just hangs up or prints some error?
2. Is there curses library on maemo platform? I have found the 'top' program
on N810,
so I suppose the answer is 'yes'. But when I try to include the header
(#include curses.h)
scratchbox cannot find this header. Where can I find a simple example of
curses application?
Something like this:
#include unistd.h
#include stdlib.h
#include curses.h
int main() {
initscr();
move(5, 15);
printw(?%s?, ?Hello World?);
refresh();
sleep(2);
endwin();
exit(EXIT_SUCCESS);
}
Scratchbox actually has curses.h, I guess you missed to add
-lncurses to your linker parameters line:
$ cc curses.c -o curses -lncurses
3. Can I create console application on python with curses library? I need
somthing like:
import curses
#
From
http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/documentation/pymaemo_tutorial/python_maemo_howto.html
Python limitations in maemo
...
The following modules are deprecated:
...curses...
I guess you should compile this module for you and provide as
additional third-party library. Or submit a request to pymaemo's
maintainers ;)
--
Sincerely,
Eugene
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Hello Maemo - CFSONID 2008
Hi! (If some bits sound to serious for your taste, take them with a grain of salt.) I finally subscribed to this list because I think the time is right. I attended LinuxTag 2008 in Berlin/Germany a few days ago. Quim Gil and other people from Nokia and the Maemo community were there. In the first Maemo talk Quim invited the community to speak out to Nokia (Btw: really Nokia or just the OSSO team?) and I want to participate therein. If you attended the first talk I was the guy asking to raise your hand if you want to see the Nokia IT devices being freed of all proprietary software in one way (install a different OS) or another (make IT OS 100% free itself). This brings us right to the topic: Free Software - free as in freedom, you know. :) I was *not* asking the question to show the Nokia staff that there are more than just '5 free software' visionaries in Maemo but mainly because I reported this[0] bug last year and was missing noticeable support from other free software friends. I know that some really good people have already given up on this topic and rest assured that this will also be my last attempt to subvert this community. ;) So the question at the talk was for me to find out whether I am really alone with my views. Apparantly it also made all of you show that you are not alone, too. :) Ok, Quim introduced the '10 action days'. My impression is that they would like to hear stuff like 'add feature X to the website', 'port application foo to maemo' or something else from that category. I have no suggestion like that because I strongly believe that a healthy free software community can fix any technical deficiency on their own. You are not a zealot like me and need an argument now? Ok. The free software scene came nearly out of nothing. Although free programs existed long before Linux was written, there was no organisation of those. One of the early communities that rallied together to make a change was Debian. It evolved from nothing to something that commercial free software vendors *want* to base their products on. Debian is the distribution Maemo was derived from. Ok, let me state some stuff before it gets hairy: - I do not consider someone/an organisation/company evil here. There are just different fears, opinions, convictions, way of doings etc. resulting in different behavior. - I consider the OSSO team at Nokia to be more open to FOSS than any other part in that company and that those guys are restricted by company policies. If there is something to fix than it will have most likely to do with that other parts. - I am very thankful for every contribution from Nokia staff to the free software community. However I treat every non-free part of the IT OS if it does not exist when it comes to being thankful. - If not said otherwise I speak in the name of those Maemo users who know that FOSS is the way to go. Everyone is free to completely disagree with my views opinions. Over time I learned about a few reasons why companies keep their Linux-based operating systems closed or deny NDA-free access to specification. Here are some: a) treaties/contracts made with chipset vendors (e.g. ARM, TI) enforce a certain non-disclosure of specifications b) fear of being imitated/plagiated by ... well manufacturers that are *specialized* in doing so c) company-wide policies that enforce a certain working style or common standards in different company sections (set up to make it easier to cope with national laws/regulations from *inside* the company[1]) d) fear of appearing less unique to the customer (something marketing people preach) e) fear of 'eating away' market share from other inhouse devices (especially from those where the margin is higher :) ) Without knowing anything from inside OSSO/Nokia in this regard I still hope that those reasons apply more or less to them because I want to base this year's Campaign for Software Freedom on Nokia IT devices (tm)[2] on them. ;) What the campaign is hoping to achieve is the following: 1) Users should be able to install any compatible OSes on their Nokia IT devices they wish like one can do on their desktop computers. 2) It should be possible to port and put Maemo on other non-Nokia devices like it is possible to e.g. port Fedora to any machine. - The means to achieve this goal are the following: 1) All software in Maemo should be licensed under free software licenses (I do not care about Skype, Flash, etc). 2) Either specifications or free software drivers should be provided for the components in the Nokia IT devices. To achieve those goals the following things should be adhered to: * Tackle one bit after another. Please prioritize important things (e.g. virtual keyboard/handwriting recognition battery management). If things start moving the communities' reward is patience. Feel free to make a big fuss when each component is freed. The free software community will party together with you. * Future software/hardware releases should not
Re: [gtkmm] Gdk::Pixbuf::create_from_file() segmentation fault in maemo
Hi, Thank you for your fast reply, that deferencing one was correct. However the error is still there after I changed it. I am suspecting that it is because of thread conflict ( I tested the create_from_file without threading and it worked fine). I am not sure if gtkmm is thread-safe or not? Regards On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 4:45 PM, Murray Cumming [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2008-06-02 at 15:25 +0800, Dinh Khac Thanh wrote: Hi all, I got problem trying to load an image to a gtkmm using pixbuf's create_from_file() in scratchbox. Here is the snippet of code: std::auto_ptrGlib::Error err; cout Start to load logo endl; image = Gdk::Pixbuf::create_from_file(./icons/logo.png,err); Glib::ustring err_str = err2-what(); You need to check pointers for NULL before dereferencing them. That's basic C++. For instance; if(err) std::cout Error message = err-what() std::endl; else std::cout Succeeded std::endl; cout Error message = err_strendl; cout Finish to load logo endl; These lines are taken from a DrawingArea widget's constructor with 'image' variable of type Glib::RefPtrGdk::Pixbuf. The output is: Start to load i2rlogo qemu: uncaught target signal 11 (Segmentation fault) - exiting if I change the path to the image file that makes it wrong path, no segmentation fault error: Start to load logo Error message = Failed to open file './icons/home.png': No such file or directory Finish to load logo Could anyone suggest the reason behind this? Regards ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers -- Murray Cumming [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com -- Dinh Khac Thanh You can do anything, but not everything You miss 100 percent of the shots you never take ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: [gtkmm] Gdk::Pixbuf::create_from_file() segmentation fault inmaemo
Dinh Khac Thanh wrote:
Thank you for your fast reply, that deferencing one was
correct. However the error is still there after I changed it.
I am suspecting that it is because of thread conflict ( I
tested the create_from_file without threading and it worked
fine). I am not sure if gtkmm is thread-safe or not?
Google?
http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk-faq/stable/x482.html
http://library.gnome.org/devel/gdk/stable/gdk-Threads.html
GTK+ is thread aware but not thread safe - it provides a global lock
controlled by gdk_threads_enter()/gdk_threads_leave() which protects all
use of GTK+. That is, only one thread can use GTK+ at any given time.
http://www.gtkmm.org/docs/gtkmm-2.4/docs/FAQ/html/index.html
Neither X, nor GDK nor GTK+ nor gtkmm are thread safe by themselves. You
must use either the gdk_threads_{enter,leave}() functions to protect any
and every
Note that you really should not send email to more than one mailing
list.
I don't know how to set a followup-to from outlook. But please only
reply to gtkmm
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Re: policy: maemo packaging policy -draft
On Wednesday 28 May 2008 08:32:22 Eero Tamminen wrote: A draft version of the maemo packaging policy is available for commenting: https://maemo.org/forrest-images/pdf/maemo-policy.pdf Let me start by saying thanks for a useful and well-written document. I am not quite sure about the name: personally I am not convinced that we need a strict policy for Maemo packages. I completely agree we need guidelines but Maemo is a small (really, tiny) distribution, both in terms of users and, more importantly for this discussion, developers. Our most critical problem at the moment is the lack of ported software, not the quality of the packages which have been ported. If anything, the number of active developers in the Maemo community seems to be declining (for example, I was amazed by the almost zero response to the autobuilder announcement). I would be very firmly against any attempt to enforce a policy (for example, by preventing packages appearing in Extras if they violate the policy). But, I realise that that is a separate discussion. My comments below do assume that this is an advisory policy (or guidelines as I would prefer to call it). 2.2: The list of user sections should not be in this document. It should be on a Wiki page which can be maintained separately from the document. 3.2: This section needs to be clearer about the circumstances which cause the maemo version string to be required. If a Debian package is taken and the only changes are to the debian/control file (e.g. Section: changed to conform to 2.2, dependencies changed to reflect maemo environment differences, maintainer changed, etc.) then I would have thought it should retain the debian version number. On the other hand, if a source or build change occurs (for example, a feature which is enabled in the Debian version is disabled in the maemo version because it makes no sense in that environment, or is dependent on something which has not been ported) then the maemo revision should be used. Other changes may be less clear (for example, if the documentation has been removed as per 3.9.4). 3.9: I don't really see the point in saying packaging changes SHOULD be propagated back to upstream. No Debian maintainer is going to change any of their packaging for the benefit of Maemo! Are you really suggesting people should report bugs on a maemo package because the upstream maintainer chooses to package it differently?! 3.9.4. Remove the line about generating API documentation from sources. While I agree that is good software engineering practice, it is not a packaging issue and doesn't belong in this document. 3.9.5. I agree with this section as currently written. It must not become MUST as it is really only critical for general purpose libraries and general purpose plugin based applications. Some applications may use libraries and plugins which are only for the convenience of the application developers and are not, realistically, ever going to be used by anyone else -- in those cases SHOULD would be correct. 10.4: I would change the backup SHOULD to a MUST. 11.1: You might want to add a TODO to consider adding additional future requirements on security for daemons which provide network accessible services. As this device is designed for almost continuous network connectivity, often in insecure environments, with no firewall on the device or between it and the Internet network security requirements may be stronger than for a normal Debian system. Graham ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: console curses application
3. Can I create console application on python with curses library? I need somthing like: import curses # From http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/documentation/pymaemo_tutorial/python_maemo_howto.html Python limitations in maemo ... The following modules are deprecated: ...curses... I guess you should compile this module for you and provide as additional third-party library. Or submit a request to pymaemo's maintainers ;) -- Sincerely, Eugene ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
LinuxTag, brainstorm summit
Hi, I guess many of you have found the news already but just in case, some push email: maemo LinuxTag update http://flors.wordpress.com/2008/06/01/maemo-linuxtag-update/ maemo.org brainstorm http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/maemo-brainstorm.html 100 Days action plan https://wiki.maemo.org/index.php/100Days maemo.org 2010 agenda https://wiki.maemo.org/index.php/2010_Agenda ... and maemo summit to be held on September 19 in Berlin, between http://www.osimworld.com and the weekend. More about this soon but start thinking about booking that day. -- Quim Gil marketing manager, open source maemo software @ Nokia ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Hello Maemo - CFSONID 2008
Hi Robert, you missed the fact we have now Free Software and Corporate Free Software Open or not, it doesn't matter. Corporate Free Software is built for embedded devices. It would be nice to have Free Software Foundation to give a helpful hand in discovering which way global corporations and developers should go. Global Alliance on Free Software/ Open Source Free Software is a good idea, I have already proposed at this place. Transfer of Intellectual Property Rights is an issue donating Open Source Free Software developed by third parties to corporations. Darius Think-Tank Nokia Internet (WIMAX) Tablet GG http://groups.google.com/group/nokia-internet-tablet?hl=en --- On Mon, 2/6/08, Robert Schuster lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; wrote: From: Robert Schuster lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; Subject: Hello Maemo - CFSONID 2008 To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Date: Monday, 2 June, 2008, 1:28 PM Hi! (If some bits sound to serious for your taste, take them with a grain of salt.) I finally subscribed to this list because I think the time is right. I attended LinuxTag 2008 in Berlin/Germany a few days ago. Quim Gil and other people from Nokia and the Maemo community were there. In the first Maemo talk Quim invited the community to speak out to Nokia (Btw: really Nokia or just the OSSO team?) and I want to participate therein. If you attended the first talk I was the guy asking to raise your hand if you want to see the Nokia IT devices being freed of all proprietary software in one way (install a different OS) or another (make IT OS 100% free itself). This brings us right to the topic: Free Software - free as in freedom, you know. :) I was *not* asking the question to show the Nokia staff that there are more than just '5 free software' visionaries in Maemo but mainly because I reported this[0] bug last year and was missing noticeable support from other free software friends. I know that some really good people have already given up on this topic and rest assured that this will also be my last attempt to subvert this community. ;) So the question at the talk was for me to find out whether I am really alone with my views. Apparantly it also made all of you show that you are not alone, too. :) Ok, Quim introduced the '10 action days'. My impression is that they would like to hear stuff like 'add feature X to the website', 'port application foo to maemo' or something else from that category. I have no suggestion like that because I strongly believe that a healthy free software community can fix any technical deficiency on their own. You are not a zealot like me and need an argument now? Ok. The free software scene came nearly out of nothing. Although free programs existed long before Linux was written, there was no organisation of those. One of the early communities that rallied together to make a change was Debian. It evolved from nothing to something that commercial free software vendors *want* to base their products on. Debian is the distribution Maemo was derived from. Ok, let me state some stuff before it gets hairy: - I do not consider someone/an organisation/company evil here. There are just different fears, opinions, convictions, way of doings etc. resulting in different behavior. - I consider the OSSO team at Nokia to be more open to FOSS than any other part in that company and that those guys are restricted by company policies. If there is something to fix than it will have most likely to do with that other parts. - I am very thankful for every contribution from Nokia staff to the free software community. However I treat every non-free part of the IT OS if it does not exist when it comes to being thankful. - If not said otherwise I speak in the name of those Maemo users who know that FOSS is the way to go. Everyone is free to completely disagree with my views amp; opinions. Over time I learned about a few reasons why companies keep their Linux-based operating systems closed or deny NDA-free access to specification. Here are some: a) treaties/contracts made with chipset vendors (e.g. ARM, TI) enforce a certain non-disclosure of specifications b) fear of being imitated/plagiated by ... well manufacturers that are *specialized* in doing so c) company-wide policies that enforce a certain working style or common standards in different company sections (set up to make it easier to cope with national laws/regulations from *inside* the company[1]) d) fear of appearing less unique to the customer (something marketing people preach) e) fear of 'eating away' market share from other inhouse devices (especially from those where the margin is higher :) ) Without knowing anything from inside OSSO/Nokia in this regard I still hope that those reasons apply more or less to them because I want to base this year's Campaign for Software Freedom on Nokia IT devices (tm)[2] on them. ;) What the campaign is hoping to achieve is the following: 1) Users should be able to install any compatible OSes on their Nokia IT devices
Re: policy: maemo packaging policy -draft
On Mon, 2008-06-02 at 12:15:05 +0100, ext Graham Cobb wrote: On Wednesday 28 May 2008 08:32:22 Eero Tamminen wrote: A draft version of the maemo packaging policy is available for commenting: https://maemo.org/forrest-images/pdf/maemo-policy.pdf I am not quite sure about the name: personally I am not convinced that we need a strict policy for Maemo packages. I completely agree we need guidelines but Maemo is a small (really, tiny) distribution, both in terms of users and, more importantly for this discussion, developers. Our most critical problem at the moment is the lack of ported software, not the quality of the packages which have been ported. If anything, the number of active developers in the Maemo community seems to be declining (for example, I was amazed by the almost zero response to the autobuilder announcement). Porting software should not be needed most of the time, and maemo would be better off pulling directly from the Debian armel archives. And honestly the packaging I've seen in general in Maemo is not that good, not only the stuff from extras and similar, this also applies to the one from Nokia. About the autobuilder, I still don't understand the need to reinvent the wheel, there's already infrastructure for that in Debian, but oh well. I would be very firmly against any attempt to enforce a policy (for example, by preventing packages appearing in Extras if they violate the policy). But, I realise that that is a separate discussion. My comments below do assume that this is an advisory policy (or guidelines as I would prefer to call it). For really broken stuff I don't see what'd be wrong in not accepting packages in the archives. I tend to agree thought that really strict enforcing (like rejecting due to warnings or not really critical stuff) at archive tool level is not generally good, as most of the time it just makes development slower, but at the same time if the policy is not followed (eventually) then there's not much point in having one. Ideally the real enforcement would be done on the release side, so packages that do not conform to all MUSTs would not get into the next Maemo release. 2.2: The list of user sections should not be in this document. It should be on a Wiki page which can be maintained separately from the document. This has been discussed before at length, but I think you guys want just debtags. 3.2: This section needs to be clearer about the circumstances which cause the maemo version string to be required. If a Debian package is taken and the only changes are to the debian/control file (e.g. Section: changed to conform to 2.2, dependencies changed to reflect maemo environment differences, maintainer changed, etc.) then I would have thought it should retain the debian version number. On the other hand, if a source or build change occurs (for example, a feature which is enabled in the Debian version is disabled in the maemo version because it makes no sense in that environment, or is dependent on something which has not been ported) then the maemo revision should be used. Other changes may be less clear (for example, if the documentation has been removed as per 3.9.4). Any change needs a new version, always, it does not matter the size of the change. It's really not good to modify something and not increment the version. Consider that in Debian even a rebuild (no changes at all) of the same package, gets a new version number (+bN). 3.9: I don't really see the point in saying packaging changes SHOULD be propagated back to upstream. No Debian maintainer is going to change any of their packaging for the benefit of Maemo! Are you really suggesting people should report bugs on a maemo package because the upstream maintainer chooses to package it differently?! No, people should report Maemo packaging problems in Maemo, but the Maemo maintainer for a given package, should send patches upstream to avoid divergence, of course not all changes are good or generic enough for upstream, but the idea would be to reduce those to a minium, or make them general enough so that they can be pushed. You'd be surprised how many DDs/DMs would take clean and sane packaging patches, that can benefit embedded systems. Another thing is if people here start messing with stuff like switching packaging from debhelper to cdbs, etc, and that'd be unacceptable. 3.9.5. I agree with this section as currently written. It must not become MUST as it is really only critical for general purpose libraries and general purpose plugin based applications. Some applications may use libraries and plugins which are only for the convenience of the application developers and are not, realistically, ever going to be used by anyone else -- in those cases SHOULD would be correct. I guess that makes sense, but only if those shared libraries or plugins do not have public interfaces, like a libfoo-dev package.
Re: sqlite3 CLI?
On Mon, Jun 02, 2008 at 09:32:09AM +0200, Frantisek Dufka wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which package do I need to install to have the sqlite3 command-line tool available ? There is no such package in SDK repository, you should install sqlite3 but this one is disabled in maemo patch for sqlite3 so you need to rebuild it from source and revert part of sqlite3_3.4.1-1osso3.diff.gz patch which disables it. http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/s/sqlite3/ Do you know the reason for that? Is there a bug filed on bugs.maemo.org for restoring the command-line tool? I had same problem some time ago, my build for chinook is here http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/sqlite3_3.4.1-1osso3_armel.deb Marius Gedminas -- Remember the... the... uhh. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Hello Maemo - CFSONID 2008
Hi! On Mon, Jun 02, 2008 at 01:28:23PM +0200, Robert Schuster wrote: I finally subscribed to this list because I think the time is right. Welcome! I attended LinuxTag 2008 in Berlin/Germany a few days ago. Quim Gil and other people from Nokia and the Maemo community were there. In the first Maemo talk Quim invited the community to speak out to Nokia (Btw: really Nokia or just the OSSO team?) and I want to participate therein. If you attended the first talk I was the guy asking to raise your hand if you want to see the Nokia IT devices being freed of all proprietary software in one way (install a different OS) or another (make IT OS 100% free itself). I was one of those who raised their hands. Without knowing anything from inside OSSO/Nokia in this regard I still hope that those reasons apply more or less to them because I want to base this year's Campaign for Software Freedom on Nokia IT devices (tm)[2] on them. ;) What the campaign is hoping to achieve is the following: 1) Users should be able to install any compatible OSes on their Nokia IT devices they wish like one can do on their desktop computers. Please add and have all the hardware working properly, because you can already install Debian or Poky on a Nokia IT. 2) It should be possible to port and put Maemo on other non-Nokia devices like it is possible to e.g. port Fedora to any machine. If I'm not confused about the terms, Maemo already consists of only the open-source parts. The software that comes on a Nokia IT is called the Internet Tablet Operating System, and it is based on Maemo with a lot of non-free parts added at various levels of the software stack. Perhaps what you want is to make Maemo complete -- by adding the missing closed parts such as the virtual keyboard/handwriting input plugins, status bar applets, etc. Regards, Marius Gedminas -- We can tell Nokia what we want. We can't tell Nokia what to do. If a comparable device with a more open platform appears, I will happily switch, just like I switched from the closed Palm to the half-open Nokia Internet Tablet. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: N810 discount code frustration
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 02:05:04AM +0300, Vivia Nikolaidou wrote: I was one of the winners of the N810 discount code contest (being a developer of aMSN) and I'm having serious issues with it. Mainly the Spanish Nokia store is to blame, but I am sick and tired of calling them and I'd like to get some help. I don't really know if this mailing list is the place to get some help, and I'm sorry in advance if I'm inadvertently spamming everyone, so I'd be glad to be redirected somewhere else if needed. I'm afraid none of the people here (including the ones who work at Nokia) have influence over how the discount codes are managed. Aren't big corporations wonderful? Anyway, here is the story: snip In my experience you'll need someone living in one of the approved countries to buy the N810 with their own credit card. Yes, this is incredibly frustrating for those of us who are second-class citizens in Nokia's eyes. I hope you'll manage to get a working discount code, if the one you originally got doesn't work any more. Marius Gedminas -- At most companies, programmers aren't trusted with words that a user might actually see (and for good reason, much of the time). -- Joel Spolski signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: sqlite3 CLI?
Marius Gedminas wrote: Do you know the reason for that? No. I also wondered why someone took the time to edit debian files to remove it from the build, it does not look like the most productive thing to do :-) Maybe it saves some trees? Is there a bug filed on bugs.maemo.org for restoring the command-line tool? I did not file any since removing it was intentional and nobody missed it (except me). Frantisek ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: N810 discount code frustration
Hi, ext Vivia Nikolaidou wrote: I was one of the winners of the N810 discount code contest (being a developer of aMSN) and I'm having serious issues with it. Mainly the Spanish Nokia store is to blame, but I am sick and tired of calling them and I'd like to get some help. With all the respect, the terms of the program estated clearly that you had to be based in one of the supported countries. If you weren't you still could apply and have chances of getting a discount code, at your own risk. Only the Nokia shop can deal with your problems. Please insist with them. The best thing to do would be to find a way to ship directly to Greece, from any Nokia store. Nokia shops can't ship out of their countries due to commercial reasons. There is also a lot of fraud attempts on online purchases and this is why they tend to have strict policies on payments with credit cards. We understand all this is uncomfortable for you, but please also understand that you decided to go through the unsupported path. -- Quim Gil marketing manager, open source maemo software @ Nokia ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Hello Maemo - CFSONID 2008
Hi! ext Robert Schuster wrote: In the first Maemo talk Quim invited the community to speak out to Nokia (Btw: really Nokia or just the OSSO team?) Well, Nokia. Don't expect 60.000 employees to be listening though, nor the CEO being subscribed to this list. ;) You are not a zealot like me and need an argument now? Not really. What I personally miss is a specific plan by the community to achieve that. Is that plan the Mamona project lead by INdT developers? Is it opening or finding open alternatives to some of the closed components in the current maemo official components? Something else? The argumentation is clear and we understand about free software as much as you, more or less. The thing is: for Nokia reaching 100% of software freedom is explicitly not a goal. The goal is to make good business producing successful products, and free software + the collaboration with the free software community are essential factors in this strategy - but not the only ones. But on the other hand Nokia has no interest stopping anybody from working on a 100% free maemo variant, or running whatever 100% free OS in maemo compatible Nokia devices. The devices are fairly open and you can even get the help of a rich community with a strong focus in software freedom (aka maemo.org) where you can also find Nokia employees with a very good knowledge of the platform and also a good understanding of your agenda. So please, no need to invest more time explaining to Nokia the goodness of free software and the opportunities behind a 100% free platform. Instead, you could better work on a plan or on real free code, like the Mamona guys are doing as well as those working on Debian, Ubuntu and what not ports. Nokia has opened whatever it was found useful to have open, and the door is... open... to open more stuff if there is a good developer/business argumentation behind that. - I consider the OSSO team at Nokia to be more open to FOSS than any other part in that company and that those guys are restricted by company policies. If there is something to fix than it will have most likely to do with that other parts. At the end it's not a restriction, but a business plan. Nokia has reasons to think than the current setting mixing open closed software works better for its business than a 100% open or a 100% closed setting. Then as a freedom software I can complain or lobby in certain directions, but I also try to understand the business reasons why Nokia thinks that our salaries will be paid better following the current path. And the guys managing the investment have also a point, I tell you. - If not said otherwise I speak in the name of those Maemo users who know that FOSS is the way to go. Everyone is free to completely disagree with my views opinions. Over time I learned about a few reasons why companies keep their Linux-based operating systems closed or deny NDA-free access to specification. Here are some: I can add one more: lack of proof that a 100% free operating system is a better business proposition for a company. If you look the world with business eyes, 100% free operating systems have little impact in the PC/laptop world and no impact in the mobile space. Nokia is already pushing and leading in terms of % of openness with the current maemo setting. For you this is not enough, for many others this is already much more than they expected. Without knowing anything from inside OSSO/Nokia in this regard I still hope that those reasons apply more or less to them because I want to base this year's Campaign for Software Freedom on Nokia IT devices (tm)[2] on them. ;) The campaign proposal is interesting. I wonder if Nokia is the main target, though. Sure, Nokia is one of the targets but perhaps it's the own community of developers who could make a change. Or did the Linux open source communities wait for IBM, Intel, HP and so on to come up with the desired support while campaigning? Coding has been the best campaign of Linux and open source. Who is stopping you on what from coding to increase the freedom of the maemo platform? Benefits: I am not a lawyer, marketing expert, economist or else. Ask them if you want advice. However a commodization of portable devices like the ITs is likely. Lawyers, marketing experts and economists will tell you that companies like Nokia make their profits on differentiation rather than commoditation. There are parts of the platform where commoditation is preferred i.e. the L:inux kernel, but keeping a leading position in a market with 100% commoditized products is almost a mission impossible, specially when starting a new family product like these lovely Internet centric devices with touch screen and etc. will distill the above stuff into an 'official' statement, put it online somewhere (Maemo Wiki?) and let supporting users subscribe to it. The final document is then given to Nokia/OSSO as part of the 'action days' and if the interest from them is not
