Re: Modest/TinyMail problems (continue from the blog comments)
On Wed Jun 25 10:23:44 2008, Philip Van Hoof wrote: > On Wed, 2008-06-25 at 10:00 +0100, Graham Cobb wrote: > > On Wednesday 25 June 2008 01:10:28 Philip Van Hoof wrote: > > > Polymer does a similar thing to Mulberry. > > > > I also have some very large folders and I liked the Polymer > approach a lot. Thanks. > > It is a shame the author doesn't have the time/resources to turn > it into a > > full-featured mail application. And also the motivation - I think the total number of users was about three at its highest. > > I haven't tried Modest yet but will do so as soon as I install > Diablo as it > > sounds like it is at least a step in the right direction. > > Tinymail is good - if Luca upgrades his IMAP server to Cyrus 2.3, he'll see a big speed increase from both Modest and Polymer, I think. > The right direction would be a guy like Dave together with me > writing a > nice Tinymail-API like library, and the guys who wrote Modest > adapting > that UI to use that. > > Who knows, some day? ;-) > > But sadly, probably never. I see Luca's complaining about Polymer being "too basic" - which makes me giggle a bit - but that's because Polymer essentially won't offer anything in the UI unless it can do so quickly and effectively. There is no compromise, and it's not helped by me being rather crap at UI design. (Polymer gets a lot more user-friendly if you tell it to colourise the display, but doing so is a bit of a dark art, since I never got around to writing the UI. Everyone can type in IMAP SEARCH criteria, into largely unlabelled dialogs, right?) But it means there's no threaded display, not because I didn't want to, or because I can't, but because threading is quite (or exceedingly) slow over low-bandwidth, so it's a feature that has to go - if the server supports THREAD it's helped a lot, but not enough to make it work on the kinds of mailboxes Polymer can normally handle comfortably. Similarly sorted views - Polymer will, probably, manage these when it grows CONTEXT=SORT support, but without that, sorted views are painful on decent sized mailboxes. (And the one I filter away my Maemo list traffic, hoping one day to get back into it, accounts for only 18k messages - my INBOX has 73k.) Filtered views, on the other hand, are relatively easy, so Polymer does those (in several different places in the UI, for convenience - right click on a mail and do Filter, or define Views in the Tools menu, or use the quick search bar), and it'll also do pretty good tagging, too. (Which you can also use to build views). Also, because of the lack of threading, it has a "thread up" navigation button to help make up for that. I might even do a "Show this thread" when INTHREAD happens. Basically, Polymer tried (and still does try, when I've a moment or two or a pressing bug to fix) to get as much out of IMAP as possible, without compromising the speed and efficiency for the sake of UI features. My biggest problem with Modest has always been that the UI requirements seem to have driven the development, to the extent that although Tinymail is pretty good, both its development and its usage has been severely compromised by trying to build a desktop mail program on an internet tablet. The result is a program that looks the part, and has the right buttons to press, but by insisting on those features as priority over all else, it's hog-tied itself into poor use of the network, so it's totally unusable on my mailboxes, whereas Polymer just trundles through them. Is Polymer pretty? Hell, no - it's quite possibly the most ugly client in the world - but I find it useful, and I don't miss the "proper" threading it doesn't have. > But as pointed out did Dave mostly made the E-mail clients for > experiments (at least afaik). > > I wrote Polymer really in order to demonstrate ACAP to people. :-) The low-bandwidth, big mailbox support was mostly accidental initially, and only later turned into a really experimental, cutting edge, thing. (It's now not quite so starkly cutting edge, since Tinymail has caught up rather a lot). > If somebody would pick it up, I'm sure he'd fully support making > Telomer > and Polymer full featured E-mail clients indeed. > > Heck, if people would simply use it, I'd put some time into tidying it up, but yes, if someone else wants to really run with it, I'd hand it over. Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [Offtopic] Broken 770 or broken configuration
On Sat Feb 24 11:39:25 2007, Rainer Dorsch wrote: First I though that is an hardware issue, but since the problem showed up after rebooting the device, I am wondering, if this is really true. I'm afraid this is a hardware fault that gets triggered during a reboot cycle, as I understand things. Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: meta-question re maemo-developers Digest
On Thu Feb 22 19:11:49 2007, Mike Cowlishaw wrote: I subscribed to this as a daily digest (and just checked that my setting is indeed that) -- but I'm being bombarded by several (at least four, with just a few posts) every day. Anyone have any idea why? There might be a limit on the size of the digest the list is sending. There's a mailman variable called digest_size_threshold, probably available to the list admins at http://maemo.org/mailman/admin/maemo-developers/digest I think it defaults to 30k, but I don't know if it includes headers and suchlike or not. Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: WebCam Help
On Thu Feb 22 15:53:19 2007, Kees Jongenburger wrote: Do you have hints onto how to get rid of the gtalk client when poping the device? There's a gconf key, it's, erm, somewhere. I stumbled across it when I was exploring with the gconf-editor I found, erm, in a repository I had already. I admit this is a strong contender for the world's least helpful message. Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Security Guidance for N800 OS development
On Wed Feb 21 17:39:44 2007, Acadia Secure Networks wrote: 1. An option for keeping sensitive data on the device encrypted. This is important for dealing with the fact that mobile devices get stolen and, more often lost. Now this *is* a sound idea. Doesn't GNOME have something like this? Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Security Guidance for N800 OS development
On Tue Feb 20 15:31:06 2007, Zoran Kolic wrote: see it on my 770. And I should not, for it is a little dude. I would just ask for iptables, nothing more. I don't want to argue is it useful or not. Believe me with your life. But I don't have to believe you with my life, and if you want a firewall on the device, you ought to be able to provide some kind of argument for why it would be useful. Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Security Guidance for N800 OS development
On Tue Feb 20 14:51:53 2007, Zoran Kolic wrote: > > I mention this because, as more Internet aware/dependent > > applications are developed for the N800 (it is an Internet tablet > > after all) the "attack surface" for the product will increase. I > > have asked previously about whether or not the N800 has a stateful > > firewall but so far the answer seems to be no. > > > ... because it would be pointless. Anyone opening passive sockets on > such a device really needs so much more than mere firewalling. In > general, I've found firewalling on Linux to be a waste of time if the > idea is to protect the machine itself, even if you do have passive > sockets open. In principle, the layer of software doing the stateful > inspection is essentially the same software doing the processing - > packets arriving which are in the wrong state get discarded *anyway*. Just cannot say how much I disagree! But can you say why? > Well, where's the input coming from? This is typically only a > security problem with multiuser systems or open network services. > Malicious payloads (like, say, email, web pages) can cause issues, > but in general they're much less of a serious issue, and they're > certainly no different to any other platform. Disagreement again. Can you explain why the N800/770 are sufficiently distinct to any other platform as to require special treatment in this area? Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Security Guidance for N800 OS development
On Mon Feb 19 20:40:41 2007, Acadia Secure Networks wrote: Dave, if you think of the N800 simply as an entertainment device then security is not a significant issue. Hmmm... I only recently realized some people do consider it an entertainment device. However, if and when users start to use this device to store important and sensitive info whether related to business or personal use then OS and application security, and especially the latter has to be properly addressed. It does not matter that the LInux kernel is very secure because once applications/add-ons (or whatever you want to call them ) which use a protocol stack to get access to the Internet, then there is a risk that misbehavior of such apps can result in a vulnerability, especially if the app inadvertently breaks code. Right, that's a reasonable stance, but I don't see where Nokia step in - there's already a huge amount of literature on writing secure programs on Linux, and UNIX in general. If you're running network daemons on the device, you deserve everything you get, of course, but even then, there's plenty of documents and guides. Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-xxx] Header is missing
On Mon Feb 19 17:19:10 2007, Ross Burton wrote: You don't need it for filtering, there are other headers (like X-Been-There) which are set if and only if the mail came from the list. If you want it so that you know where the mail came from as you don't sort into folders, I suggest you sort into folders. Or, of course, use a setup which lets you visually distinguish them anyway. I have them flagged on my IMAP server as they arrive, using Sieve, and then have Polymer/Telomer display them with a distinctive background colour. That said, there's enough traffic on this list I'm actually considering filtering into a different folder anyway. Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Security Guidance for N800 OS development
On Mon Feb 19 15:59:25 2007, Acadia Secure Networks wrote: Has Nokia published any documentation on the subject of how to secure the N800 OS from attack from both a software developer perspective as well as an end user perspective? Not that I know of, but I'm not clear what the point would be. I mention this because, as more Internet aware/dependent applications are developed for the N800 (it is an Internet tablet after all) the "attack surface" for the product will increase. I have asked previously about whether or not the N800 has a stateful firewall but so far the answer seems to be no. ... because it would be pointless. Anyone opening passive sockets on such a device really needs so much more than mere firewalling. In general, I've found firewalling on Linux to be a waste of time if the idea is to protect the machine itself, even if you do have passive sockets open. In principle, the layer of software doing the stateful inspection is essentially the same software doing the processing - packets arriving which are in the wrong state get discarded *anyway*. And this does not even consider vulnerabilities introduced by latent software defects (e.g. not safely/properly dealing with malformed input), which as this community knows only too well, can lead to openings for attack. Well, where's the input coming from? This is typically only a security problem with multiuser systems or open network services. Malicious payloads (like, say, email, web pages) can cause issues, but in general they're much less of a serious issue, and they're certainly no different to any other platform. It would be interesting to know what, if anything, the Nokia development team has in its OS software product plan regarding further OS/TCP/IP stack/Application hardening. As more end users come to depend upon this device to perform sensitive tasks (e.g. online banking) then this issue will move to the forefront of concern for those users. I'm just really not clear that this is as much of a big deal as you seem to think, and I can't see anything specific to Maemo which needs addressing. If anything, the 770/N800 are a lot more secure than the average Linux box, let alone the average computer. Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: [maemo-developers] New list spin-off?
On Mon Feb 5 10:00:38 2007, Murray Cumming wrote: On Mon, 2007-02-05 at 11:46 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Question: aren't there ways to filter appropriately the emails > without relying on the flags? Yes. The emails have an X-list field in the header. That's why Evolution, for instance, can filter by mailing list. Hopefully it's using the List-* headers that are the standard, particularly List-Id, in preference. Some email clients will even handle lists that subvert Reply-To. It doesn't help you filter the copies that you get when someone replies to all. Personally I want to get a copy so I can easily see that someone has replied to me. Not everyone likes that. But this isn't anything unusual. It's what most mailing lists do. See most GNOME lists, for instance. In general, it's the MUA that sends your copy, and in addition, the list server sends another. Both have the same Message-Id, and that can mean your mailserver decides you have it already, and drops the duplicate. There are headers suggested that request the reader's MUA to send you copies (or not), too. Someone will complain about whatever mailing list setup you use, however. Even me. Sure, and it's important to consider the audience, as well. If the maemo-users@ list set Reply-To and had a subject tag, I'd consider that reasonable. A maemo-developers@ list that did the same would be irritating. Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: [maemo-developers] New list spin-off?
On Fri Feb 2 10:56:24 2007, Murray Cumming wrote: On Fri, 2007-02-02 at 12:53 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >If you don't have "dev" or "developer" somewhere in those > >developer list names, they will be bothered with user > >questions, and those users will then be dissatisfied with > >being sent away. Descriptions aren't enough. > > I was waiting some kind of concept approval before going into wording. > Let's see if this makes sense (at least to Ferenc, our dear server-side > admin): > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (renamed maemo-developers@maemo.org, no change > in subscribers) There's no "dev", "devel" or "development" in the name. It will be bothered by users. I'd agree. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (new list, interested people need to join) > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (renamed maemo-users@maemo.org, no change in > subscribers) > About the flags in the email subject, is this a problem? I can live > with/without them, no strong opinion here. It's annoying to me. Actually, it's more than mere annoyance. On a small screen device (anyone around here got one of those?), a lengthy [list] prefix takes up a substantial chunk of space, meaning that the actual subject line itself is obscured. So I'd prefer them to be off, but I'd happy with a short prefix, too. (The List-* headers are well worth looking at for those of us writing email clients.) Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] New list spin-off?
On Wed Jan 31 21:04:27 2007, Dave Neuer wrote: On 1/31/07, Mike Lococo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Mainly, I think people need to be "meaner" on maemo-developers about pushing non-development discussion over to the users list. Tommi explained that maemo-users was for application developers (which makes sense to me, very analogous to the way other framework mailing lists work). The real end-user list would be something like "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" or users of particular applications (presumably hosted separately). So "development" discussions not pertaining to framework/platform development should be pushed to the "users" list; non-development issues should probably go to yet another list. Except that maemo-users@ has become the "power-users" mailing list, and it's hard to change the flow of a mailing list. Why not create a maemo-appdev@ for application development and discussion, and I think Nokia might consider a more end-user orientated mailing list as well. The ruleset might be, then: - If what you're trying to do involves the platform, it's maemo-developers@ - If what you're trying to do involves scratchbox, it's maemo-appdev@ - If what you're trying to do involves hacks on the device (such as using xterm), it's maemo-users@ - Otherwise, it's [EMAIL PROTECTED] or whatever. Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] pyopenssl
On Fri Jan 26 16:38:32 2007, Zoran Kolic wrote: Does someone use pyopenssl on 770? Any opinion on libssl from command line? I have a fork of pyOpenSSL with some extra features in - I'll port it to Maemo quite happily. 2.4 or 2.5 flavour? Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] N800 Developer Device program: European discount codes sent
On Tue Jan 23 05:45:30 2007, Quim Gil wrote: Important tip to those contacting us aiming to get a discount code in the final wave: the less we know you the more you should explain. The final wave is primarily for recovering contact details of contributors that we imperfect humans have missed. Hmmm. I'm not terribly good at self-publicity, and I really don't enjoy this sort of thing, but I'll see what I can do to persuade the Nokians: 1) Who am I? Dave Cridland. Contact details, homepages, etc, in my signature. 2) How do I meet the criteria? I'm a specialist in low-bandwidth, high-latency, email access using open standards. What this means in practise is that I've been heavily involved in the IETF effort known as Lemonade, which is aimed at providing a solid platform for mobile email by extending existing email standards. The current version is documented in RFC4550, and you'll see my name in the Acknowledgements section. Lemonade includes things like "push email", and the ability to selectively forward messages and attachments without downloading them, known as "forward without download". I currently edit a handful of drafts associated with the next phase of Lemonade (known as profile bis), including the new version of the profile itself. I'm also working on an extension to allow bandwidth-efficient access to potentially large sorted and filtered views of the mailbox, known as contexts (draft-cridland-imap-context for Googlers), and RFC4731, co-authored by me, provides a bandwidth-efficient mechanism for static searches. I'm also (much less) active within the XMPP community. An off-hand comment of mine caused the registration of a URN for namespacing new XML elements in XMPP, and I've been involved in XEP-0198, too, which is pretty relevant to XMPP on the Maemo platform. My work life is as an internet messaging engineer at Isode - http://www.isode.com/ - a small London company that's been key in the development of a few things you might have heard of, such as LDAP. My personal, open-source, projects are detailed at http://trac.dave.cridland.net/ and are: a) Polymer, which was the first IMAP client to take full advantage of Lemonade, and runs on desktop computers. This is written in Python, using wxPython. It is used by several IMAP server vendors to test their support for the latest developments in internet mail. I'm not porting this to Maemo, as such... b) Telomer, which is a work-in-progress, and is a reworked UI to bring Lemonade to Maemo, and is the first client to take Lemonade onto a mobile device. This is again written in Python, this time with pyGTK, and I'm trying to design the UI specifically to make best use of the screen area, so it looks very different to Polymer. c) The IPL, or Infotrope Python Library, which does the IMAP, ESMTP, ACAP, and even XMPP support for the above. (It can also post articles to NNTP). It includes a full SASL implementation for robust security, and runs to a limited degree on my 7610. This runs already on Maemo. d) IAS, or the Infotrope ACAP Server, which provides full RFC2244 ACAP services for remote configuration and roaming services, typically to email clients such as Eudora, Mulberry, and of course Polymer and Telomer. It's written in C++. And no, this one won't get ported to Maemo, it's just relevant technology. I run a "free" ACAP service, so anyone can get an account easily. e) I recently started collecting patches to update the pyOpenSSL library, and added in functionality including support for TLS-based compression and Python file-protocol object support. This could be ported (read: recompiled) to Maemo, but the 770 at least uses OpenSSL 0.9.7, which - lacking compression - makes it rather less interesting to do. (But let me know if you want this). I personally think that the 770 and N800 could quite easily provide an excellent end-user experience for email - they have much better capabilities than a simple mobile phone, and yet can still be easily carried. Given the general state of the mobile email market, a powerful marketing story on the Internet Tablets as mobile email devices would surely be in Nokia's best interests. Nokia themselves are involved in the Lemonade effort, of course, and at least some people in Tampere are quite well aware of Polymer and my work. I'm not entirely sure I qualify here - yes, I'm actively porting code to Maemo, and yes, I'm actively creating new code for Maemo - you don't have a criterion of "people heavily involved in open standards areas of relevance to Maemo", though. If I did get a discount code, I'd keep my 770. It'd mean I could aim to get Telomer fast enough on the 770, in which case I'd enjoy it whizzing along on the N800 (possibly - much of the slowdown is currently rel
Re: [maemo-developers] N800 GUI Improvements from a Newton Developer's Perspective
On Mon Jan 22 15:44:48 2007, Christian F.K. Schaller wrote: Well we should be careful this list doesn't become known as haven for supporters of old dead technologies. I'm wandering off topic here, sorta... There are lots of old, dead, technologies which still have plenty of interesting features that we would be foolish not to at least consider. So sure, I'd hate the idea of taking something with the display and CPU power of a 770 or N800, and then exclusively run decade-old technology, but there's plenty of technology that *is* a decade old that the device could really benefit from. Sean's little essay, whilst obviously biased, is still interesting. It makes me wonder why the Maemo toolbar never has borders around the buttons so we know where to tap, for instance, and it makes me stop to consider how much screen area is taken up with Pretty Stuff. Also, I rather liked the drag-drop clipboard he describes from the Newton - looking at it that way makes me wonder if it couldn't be done my using that RHS gutter he hates, in HildonWindow. Dave. (Who uses such ridiculous decade-old tech as "push email", and "roaming", would you believe, even though these will obviously never catch on.). -- Dave Cridland - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: [maemo-developers] Re: N800 Developer Programme Application
On Fri Jan 12 08:37:08 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, You are right about this. One fact is, that release schedule has been a trade secret - hence no "end user roadmap with release dates". Yes, but I think you (or rather Nokia) is falling into the trap of closely coupling software and hardware. Some of the N800's, from what I'm reading via IRC, shipped with one version of software, others shipped with a later version. The 770 was the same over a longer period. I think if Nokia made more releases [and not all of them need be stable], the connection between software and hardware would be reduced, and the hardware releases would require less synchronization with software work. Competitors would be able to gain less information from the software changes, because they'd not be able to detirmine if they related to a new device or not. You'd also make the gadget folk and the developer community much happier. Of course there are exceptions - webcams, different CPUs, etc all have software impact - but fundamentally these are (or ought to be) low-level features and specific apps. And equally, there's the issue of your third party closed app licenses, such as Opera, but that's realtively simple to tie into hardware releases, and who knows, maybe the orphaning of 770's wrt new Opera might cause a surge of development on open source alternatives. Anyone could have made sure his application will work the day Bora/IT-2007 goes public. True, but for the most part Bora could have gone public completely independently of the N800 release. By tying the hardware and software together so closely, Nokia is forced to keep software details rather more secret. Another thing is the developer program. I'm not too happy with it myself and I agree we should have at least posted the deadline after which the notifications are sent. I still hope we will at least announce that the selection is over. One of the major problems is that details are slipping out unofficially, and the entire community seems to be carefully interpreting every word anyone connected with Nokia says, in the hope of gleaning some information from it. In this case, your last sentence does not use the subjunctive, and furthermore uses the word "that", which has been seen by some to imply that the selection is over. Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Re: wxPython
On Fri Jan 12 03:29:58 2007, Jeffrey Barish wrote: Dave Cridland wrote: > On Thu Jan 11 16:28:30 2007, Jeffrey Barish wrote: >> Is anyone aware of a port of wxPython to the 770 or 800? > > Before you think seriously about wxPython, I'd recommend > reconsidering - pygtk is just as good, and better in some areas. > Given the reduction in the number of layers, I'd assume that working > with pyGTK would be more efficient anyway. > > I'm speaking as someone who's worked heavily with wxPython and > started using pyGTK specifically for the 770 - I'm free from bias in > that respect. > > Dave. Nor am I entranced by wxPython, but my application needs to run both on a portable platform and Windows. So does mine - Polymer has been running on Windows for quite a while, as well as on Linux. However, for Telomer, my primary consideration was getting the interface "right" for a handheld, keyboardless device, and overall, I think I've probably done more "new" code than "porting". Had wxPython existed, I might well have used that, but I suspect that the resultant UI would be (even) worse than it is now. I'm absolutely not saying "Do Not Use wxPython!", but I am saying to give the pyGTK option serious consideration - depending on how distinct the handheld and Windows UI will end up. Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] wxPython
On Thu Jan 11 16:28:30 2007, Jeffrey Barish wrote: Is anyone aware of a port of wxPython to the 770 or 800? Before you think seriously about wxPython, I'd recommend reconsidering - pygtk is just as good, and better in some areas. Given the reduction in the number of layers, I'd assume that working with pyGTK would be more efficient anyway. I'm speaking as someone who's worked heavily with wxPython and started using pyGTK specifically for the 770 - I'm free from bias in that respect. Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Using the N770/N800 as a remote control.
On Wed Jan 10 02:58:24 2007, Jon Smirl wrote: The other trouble with using radio is the you have to tell the remote which room it is in. IR doesn't travel between rooms. If you carry an IR remote to another room, it won't still control the TV in the first room. You could use a GPS receiver to sort that out, then have your music follow you about the house. Dave. (Now scared someone will actually *do* this) -- Dave Cridland - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] Telomer, a WIP email client
Hiya folks, Since I've not mentioned it on the mailing list before, and since it's reaching the point it's usable with slightly less hand-holding than before, I'd like to point out Telomer to the assembled masses. Telomer is a Lemonade Profile capable ACAP-aware email client, written in Python. Loosely, this means that it's a very low bandwidth IMAP/ESMTP client which can share its configuration with your desktop/laptop client (assuming it, too, speaks ACAP, like Polymer does). In fact, it's simpler to configure it by configuring Polymer somewhere. It follows the Lemonade Profile - RFC4550 - which provides several extensions to IMAP and ESMTP to provide much increased efficiency. It also has support for several other IMAP and ESMTP extensions, which minimizes the bandwidth usage, making it reasonably fast and very cheap over mobile links. It does not do traditional desktop client things like POP3, nor threaded message displays. If you want that, you're best off with something like Sylpheed - Andrew Flegg has ported it at http://www.bleb.org/software/770/#sylpheed If does, however, synchronize my INBOX (which has 40,000 messages in) in a few seconds (and fewer bytes) over GPRS, and it'll forward a 55M message over GPRS faster than a desktop client can on a LAN - http://blog.dave.cridland.net/?p=17 gives some details using Polymer, which uses the same library. It's still a work in progress, and still unsuited to end users, but I'm at the point where I use it regularly, for keeping track of my email over lunchtime, etc, and it would benefit hugely from people: - Giving me comments. - Finding bugs. - Testing it. - Contributing code. Please give it a go, repository information is at http://trac.dave.cridland.net/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/wiki/Polymer770 - and feel free to drop me a line by Jabber, email, etc to let me know how you get on. I'm also about on #maemo as dwd if you prefer IRC. Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Alternative input method
On Fri Dec 22 16:40:05 2006, Ilya Schurov wrote: Unfortunately, scratchbox-0.9 doesn't work under 64bit system (i'm AMD64 Gentoo user) Yes it does, I run AMD64 Ubuntu, and it works fine here, running as a 32-bit app, installed straight from tarballs. Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] python + osso_browser does work.
On Tue Dec 12 16:15:43 2006, Osvaldo Santana wrote: It's possible to make another package with the readline.so module, but the Python interactive mode will not use it. To enable the readline in Python interactive mode we need to link the interpreter itself against libreadline/libncurses. A nicer plan might be to recommend some other package which has a "friendly" interpreter shell. I seem to remember that SciTE (or however the capslock works there) has a pretty, colourized, line-editable python interpreter window, for example. Someone could also simply write something more suited to being just a shell, if they wanted. Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Re: Proper documentation (was Re: HildonProgram input to gtk_widget_show()?)
On Wed Nov 29 19:46:51 2006, Danny Milosavljevic wrote: [and "/scratchbox/" is a bad place to put scratchbox to, am I the only one to have almost all the harddisk space on "/home/" and almost none on "/" ?] No, I, too, have about 1G on /, and 317G on /home/, so I put it all in /home and symlink, which works just fine: lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16 2006-10-15 19:58 /scratchbox -> /home/scratchbox Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
