Re: Command line apps Extras
Hi, Voting open: http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/command_line_applications_and_extras/ Best regards, -- Valério Valério http://www.valeriovalerio.org On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 10:58 PM, Valerio Valerio vdv...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 9:53 PM, Andrea Borgia and...@borgia.bo.it wrote: Valerio Valerio wrote: http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/command_line_applications_and_extras/ [2] - http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/ovi_maps_improvement_suggestions How do I vote now? I am logged in but I only see the thumbs up/down near the top instead of next to each proposed solution as it was earlier. It seems that the proposals need to be voted to get in the under consideration queue, and only there you can vote in the solutions. Best regards, -- Valério Valério http://www.valeriovalerio.org A. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Command line apps Extras
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 14:27, Valerio Valerio vdv...@gmail.com wrote: Voting open: http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/command_line_applications_and_extras/ How is Brainstorm supposed to work. I *think* I support solution #4, but - as I explained earlier - I think this should also be the option of an emblem so that a meaningful icon can also be shown: http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-developers@maemo.org/msg22410.html This is effectively solution #4, but the concrete specification says all [...] should use the same icon in the application manager. Depending on your definition of icon and same, I either agree or disagree with this :-) Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:and...@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Command line apps Extras
Hi, On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Andrew Flegg and...@bleb.org wrote: On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 14:27, Valerio Valerio vdv...@gmail.com wrote: Voting open: http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/command_line_applications_and_extras/ How is Brainstorm supposed to work. I *think* I support solution #4, but - as I explained earlier - I think this should also be the option of an emblem so that a meaningful icon can also be shown: http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-developers@maemo.org/msg22410.html This is effectively solution #4, but the concrete specification says all [...] should use the same icon in the application manager. Depending on your definition of icon and same, I either agree or disagree with this :-) Add a new solution, I think that's the right way when things aren't clear for you. Best, -- Valério Valério http://www.valeriovalerio.org Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:and...@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/ ___ maemo-community mailing list maemo-commun...@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Command line apps Extras
Hi, Btw, I should have the first version of the emblem complete by Monday. It would be today, but I've got other priorities. :( Anyway... Working on it, as it is my Sprint task for this month. Tim Valerio Valerio wrote: Hi, On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Andrew Flegg and...@bleb.org mailto:and...@bleb.org wrote: On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 14:27, Valerio Valerio vdv...@gmail.com mailto:vdv...@gmail.com wrote: Voting open: http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/command_line_applications_and_extras/ How is Brainstorm supposed to work. I *think* I support solution #4, but - as I explained earlier - I think this should also be the option of an emblem so that a meaningful icon can also be shown: http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-developers@maemo.org/msg22410.html This is effectively solution #4, but the concrete specification says all [...] should use the same icon in the application manager. Depending on your definition of icon and same, I either agree or disagree with this :-) Add a new solution, I think that's the right way when things aren't clear for you. Best, -- Valério Valério http://www.valeriovalerio.org Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:and...@bleb.org mailto:and...@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/ -- http://samoff.com ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Command line apps Extras
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 14:43, Valerio Valerio vdv...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Andrew Flegg and...@bleb.org wrote: This is effectively solution #4, but the concrete specification says all [...] should use the same icon in the application manager. Depending on your definition of icon and same, I either agree or disagree with this :-) Add a new solution, I think that's the right way when things aren't clear for you. But then there are multiple solutions, some which are very similar and some which are wildly different. This splits the vote and results in true design-by-committee (and, worse, a committee without any entry requirements). I *think*, if Brainstorm is to be useful, we take the most voted for solution and take that as the requirement not the solution design. Especially if we've already accepted a sprint task (9.11-4) which predicates a particular solution ;-) Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:and...@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Command line apps Extras
Hi, Ok, let's reach a final solution here. I made a brainstorm proposal[1] with the best solutions proposed here, feel free to add more. Can some brainstorm expert point me how to add a TMO link in the proposal, like some proposals already have[2] ? Perhaps one of the mods can put this proposal directly in the 'under consideration' basket, since was already discussed and is very important. [1] - http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/command_line_applications_and_extras/ [2] - http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/ovi_maps_improvement_suggestions Best regards, -- Valério Valério Maemo Community Council Chair http://www.valeriovalerio.org On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Thomas Perl th.p...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/11/29 Graham Cobb g+...@cobb.uk.net g%2b...@cobb.uk.net: This whole discussion is a really short term problem. Once there are 500 applications in extras, people aren't going to be going through the list in H-A-M installing applications: they are going to be using the web pages (Maemo Downloads) and the categories, ratings, reviews, etc. on those pages. H-A-M will be used mainly for removing and upgrading applications. Or better: H-A-M will have a more prominently placed search function or HildonLiveSearch-based all applications list. Would solve more problems than just the question about command-line apps ;) Thomas ___ maemo-community mailing list maemo-commun...@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Command line apps Extras
Valerio Valerio wrote: http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/command_line_applications_and_extras/ [2] - http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/ovi_maps_improvement_suggestions How do I vote now? I am logged in but I only see the thumbs up/down near the top instead of next to each proposed solution as it was earlier. A. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Command line apps Extras
Hi, On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 9:53 PM, Andrea Borgia and...@borgia.bo.it wrote: Valerio Valerio wrote: http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/command_line_applications_and_extras/ [2] - http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/ovi_maps_improvement_suggestions How do I vote now? I am logged in but I only see the thumbs up/down near the top instead of next to each proposed solution as it was earlier. It seems that the proposals need to be voted to get in the under consideration queue, and only there you can vote in the solutions. Best regards, -- Valério Valério http://www.valeriovalerio.org A. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Command line apps Extras
On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 15:57, Valerio Valerio vdv...@gmail.com wrote: Based in your feedback, here are the best solutions in my opinion, let's try to reach a good solution that can make both sides happy: 1 - Modify the HAM code in order to add some kind of switcher for the CLI apps - Very good solution IMO, but very hard to accomplish in the short term. Should we introduce an `XSBC-Maemo-Type' header which can have the following values: * application [default] - means it provides a UI through Control Panel, apps menu etc. This'd include new IM plugins (as they show up) and wallpapers with .desktop files, themes, fonts and so on. * background - services which have no direct UI, e.g. codecs, auto-starting daemons. * console - command-line apps. This then allows HAM to distinguish these apps; rather than trying to decode it. 2 - All Cli apps should use the same app icon - Seems good to me, the regular users will learn and the power users will be happy to have all these apps available. I quite like the idea of an emblem as WELL as an icon - this'd allow things to still have a different icon to aid the user navigating, but have a standard for when there is no better icon available. 3 - All CLI app should have a default sentence in his description, that clearly states that the app is only usable from the command line (no icon, no GUI) - Most of the users will not read the descriptions, but if they complain about it, is their fault because the notice is there :P . A similar sentence should be also used in the enablers (OGG support,..). Indeed. Suggestions below. I think 2 3 is perfectly doable in the short term and perhaps can make both sides happy. Thoughts ? Agreed. Here are some concrete suggestions: * Standard emblem (25% of icon) and sentence for things which don't install an icon (e.g. OpenSSH server; google-album-art-downloader). This could be a representation of the More... from the menu with a red, crossed-out circle and something like: This package installs background services on your device and does not appear in the list of available applications. * Standard emblem and sentence for things which are intended to be run from CLI (e.g. OpenSSH client; socat). This could be a representation of the X Terminal icon, perhaps in a yellow warning triangle and something like: This package installs commands intended to be used in X Terminal and does not appear in the list of available applications. Consult this package's documentation for how to use it. To carry this forward, I think we need to: 1) Open up communication on maemo-developers [CCed ;-)] 2) Have a UX expert comment on whether the emblem idea is workable in 48x48 icons. With colour and shape variants, I think it *could*; but aren't sure. 3) Design said icons (large version for screenshots on web UI, small-sized versions for overlaying on other icons in XB-Maemo-Icon-26 and medium-sized for sole use as XB-Maemo-Icon-26 when there is no icon to overlay). 4) Create a wiki page describing how and where to put them (consistent place such as bottom right seems best) and suggested package description language. 5) Update the QA criteria. 6) Communicate to all packages currently in Extras and assist with new screenshots and XB-Maemo-Icon-26s for them. Is it also worth a consistent suffix to XB-Maemo-Display-Name, such as [CLI] and [Daemon]? Perhaps not. Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:and...@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Command line apps Extras
Andrew Flegg wrote: On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 15:57, Valerio Valerio vdv...@gmail.com wrote: Based in your feedback, here are the best solutions in my opinion, let's try to reach a good solution that can make both sides happy: 1 - Modify the HAM code in order to add some kind of switcher for the CLI apps - Very good solution IMO, but very hard to accomplish in the short term. Should we introduce an `XSBC-Maemo-Type' header which can have the following values: Or we could use debtags... interface::text-mode interface::shell interface::daemon http://debtags.alioth.debian.org/ [snipped the rest which is fine] David -- Don't worry, you'll be fine; I saw it work in a cartoon once... ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Command line apps Extras
On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 12:33, David Greaves da...@dgreaves.com wrote: Andrew Flegg wrote: Should we introduce an `XSBC-Maemo-Type' header which can have the following values: Or we could use debtags... interface::text-mode interface::shell interface::daemon http://debtags.alioth.debian.org/ Perfect. Having raised debtags earlier, I briefly considered them - and then wrote the above. Ta, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:and...@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
