Re: 770 info in wiki Re: Has maemo-pc-connectivity been substituted by USB Networking applet (in control panel)?

2008-07-06 Thread Dave Neary
Hi,

Neil Jerram wrote:
 But the rest is arbitrary.  I see no need for separate pages, only
 clear section headings within the page.

Long pages full of technical information (most of which is not useful to
the reader) are intimidating, and give the impression of needing to be
an expert to achieve the task at hand.

It would be a return to the RTFM culture of the 90s when HOWTOs (which
were great if you had a basic idea what you were talking about) were the
pinacle of Linux documentation.

I'd hoped we'd progressed beyond that.

 That is you making a choice for yourself.  In the current discussion
 about wiki content, the debate is whether your proposal is best for
 the whole community, some of whom will have made different choices;
 not just for how you use your ITs.

My proposal is not to exclude people, but to ensure that the main drag
of the wiki stays clean, accessible, readable for a newbie, and
represents the most recent information available. Information about what
was the state of the art 3 years ago has its place, but it's not in the
middle of what is the state of the art now.

Cheers,
Dave.

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Re: 770 info in wiki Re: Has maemo-pc-connectivity been substituted by USB Networking applet (in control panel)?

2008-07-05 Thread Dave Neary
Hi,

Frantisek Dufka wrote:
 Dave Neary wrote:
 Information
 for older OSes or for the 770, should be (IMHO) a footnote at lest, or a
 reference to an archived page which doesn't show up when browsing the
 wiki normally.
 
 Well, I would not be surprised to hear such opinion from @nokia.com but
 I am a bit surprised to hear this from @maemo.org :-)

I speak not as a representative of Nokia, but as a documentation
editor/organiser.

One basic rule imposes itself: documentation should be useful to its
reader. There's an eternal balance between give the user the
information he needs and be as complete as possible.

Wiki pages where 10% of the information is useful to an OS2008 user
(Install package X) and 90% is useful to a 770 user (Edit file Z, as
root run insmod Q, ...), then we need to make the page as simple as
possible for the majority of our users (N800 + N810 users), and ensure
that the first principles information is available to a 770 user, but
isn't in the same place as the useful information for the majority.

That means that you have a first page targeted at OS2008 users, and a
second page targeted at legacy systems, which is in an appropriate
category. The second page will *only* get linked to from the first page,
and won't show up in your normal wiki navigation.

 Please be careful with removing
 770/OS2006 or 2007(HE) information. Also people still use N800 with
 OS2007, latest in not always greatest :-)

Often, the first step for someone who has a problem with an N800 and
OS2007 is first, upgrade to OS2008. There was a time in my life when I
didn't like throwing anything away, but as time has gone on, I realise
that you have to make a choice. Some things you keep close at hand or
put on the mantelpiece, some things get tidied away in boxes for the day
when you might need them, and some things just have to go.

 Perhaps the newest stuff should be first but footnote or archived page
 is going too far IMO.
 
 Can we tag pages or sections with OS/device names?

Please feel free to add pages to a 770 category, but don't categorise
pages targeted at the latest version. I'd like to keep the number of
categories we use in the wiki overall manageable.

Cheers,
Dave.

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Re: 770 info in wiki Re: Has maemo-pc-connectivity been substituted by USB Networking applet (in control panel)?

2008-07-05 Thread Neil Jerram
2008/7/5 Dave Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 I speak not as a representative of Nokia, but as a documentation
 editor/organiser.

 One basic rule imposes itself: documentation should be useful to its
 reader. There's an eternal balance between give the user the
 information he needs and be as complete as possible.

 Wiki pages where 10% of the information is useful to an OS2008 user
 (Install package X) and 90% is useful to a 770 user (Edit file Z, as
 root run insmod Q, ...), then we need to make the page as simple as
 possible for the majority of our users (N800 + N810 users), and ensure
 that the first principles information is available to a 770 user,

All agreed with you up to here.

 but
 isn't in the same place as the useful information for the majority.

 That means that you have a first page targeted at OS2008 users, and a
 second page targeted at legacy systems, which is in an appropriate
 category. The second page will *only* get linked to from the first page,
 and won't show up in your normal wiki navigation.

But the rest is arbitrary.  I see no need for separate pages, only
clear section headings within the page.

 Please be careful with removing
 770/OS2006 or 2007(HE) information. Also people still use N800 with
 OS2007, latest in not always greatest :-)

 Often, the first step for someone who has a problem with an N800 and
 OS2007 is first, upgrade to OS2008. There was a time in my life when I
 didn't like throwing anything away, but as time has gone on, I realise
 that you have to make a choice. Some things you keep close at hand or
 put on the mantelpiece, some things get tidied away in boxes for the day
 when you might need them, and some things just have to go.

That is you making a choice for yourself.  In the current discussion
about wiki content, the debate is whether your proposal is best for
the whole community, some of whom will have made different choices;
not just for how you use your ITs.

Regards,
  Neil
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Re: Has maemo-pc-connectivity been substituted by USB Networking applet (in control panel)?

2008-07-04 Thread Marcio Macedo
Hi,

maemo-pc-connectivity is only a meta-package that install a series of
connectivity-related packages.
The old package you are looking for is masmo-sdk-tablet, which has
been replaced for maemo-control* .
It's not working very well, though.
It's good because it sets up all the parameters in your
/etc/network/interfaces. But the switch to usb networking mode is not
reliable.

Marcio

On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 2:46 PM, Andrea Grandi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

 that is not the package I was looking for :(
 I'm looking for the application that was installed in Extra menu. The
 one described here:
 http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/maemo-pc-connectivity/

 2008/7/3 Glauber Ferreira [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Hi Andrea.

 Maemo PC Connectivity has been sent to Diablo extras yesterday.

 []s
 Glauber Ferreira

 On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Andrea Grandi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi all,

 using chinook I remember I had an icon in Extra menu, called Maemo PC
 Connectivity. I used it to setup USB networking to be able to connect
 from Eclipse/Pluthon. Now I can only find USB Networking in Control
 Panel, but I don't like it.

 It's very bugged compared with the old Maemo PC Connectivity. For
 example if I connect the cable then I disconnect it, it says me that
 USB is busy and I've to disconnect the cable (and it's already
 disconnected!), or if I don't connect any cable and click on Setup
 USB Networking I cannot use anymore the cable, I've to reboot the
 device.

 Any idea? Thanks for your support.

 --
 Andrea Grandi
 email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com
 website: http://www.andreagrandi.it
 PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc
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 --
 Andrea Grandi
 email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com
 website: http://www.andreagrandi.it
 PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc
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Re: Has maemo-pc-connectivity been substituted by USB Networking applet (in control panel)?

2008-07-04 Thread Dave Neary
Speaking of USB networking...

Anyone have any improvements to suggest for the wiki page on the
subject? https://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking

Cheers,
Dave.

Marcio Macedo wrote:
 Hi,
 
 maemo-pc-connectivity is only a meta-package that install a series of
 connectivity-related packages.
 The old package you are looking for is masmo-sdk-tablet, which has
 been replaced for maemo-control* .
 It's not working very well, though.
 It's good because it sets up all the parameters in your
 /etc/network/interfaces. But the switch to usb networking mode is not
 reliable.
 
 Marcio
 
 On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 2:46 PM, Andrea Grandi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

 that is not the package I was looking for :(
 I'm looking for the application that was installed in Extra menu. The
 one described here:
 http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/maemo-pc-connectivity/

 2008/7/3 Glauber Ferreira [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Hi Andrea.

 Maemo PC Connectivity has been sent to Diablo extras yesterday.

 []s
 Glauber Ferreira

 On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Andrea Grandi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi all,

 using chinook I remember I had an icon in Extra menu, called Maemo PC
 Connectivity. I used it to setup USB networking to be able to connect
 from Eclipse/Pluthon. Now I can only find USB Networking in Control
 Panel, but I don't like it.

 It's very bugged compared with the old Maemo PC Connectivity. For
 example if I connect the cable then I disconnect it, it says me that
 USB is busy and I've to disconnect the cable (and it's already
 disconnected!), or if I don't connect any cable and click on Setup
 USB Networking I cannot use anymore the cable, I've to reboot the
 device.

 Any idea? Thanks for your support.

 --
 Andrea Grandi
 email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com
 website: http://www.andreagrandi.it
 PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc
 ___
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 --
 Andrea Grandi
 email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com
 website: http://www.andreagrandi.it
 PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc
 ___
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 maemo-developers@maemo.org
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Re: Has maemo-pc-connectivity been substituted by USB Networking applet (in control panel)?

2008-07-04 Thread Glauber Ferreira
Hi Dave.

Is the same information for N800 valid for N810?

Should these [1] instructions about configuration and test of USB networking
be added/merged to this maemo wiki page? These instructions consider that
the user has installed the meta-package maemo-pc-connectivity on device.

[1] - http://maemo.org/development/documentation/pc_connectivity/

[]s
Glauber Ferreira

On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Dave Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Speaking of USB networking...

 Anyone have any improvements to suggest for the wiki page on the
 subject? https://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking

 Cheers,
 Dave.

 Marcio Macedo wrote:
  Hi,
 
  maemo-pc-connectivity is only a meta-package that install a series of
  connectivity-related packages.
  The old package you are looking for is masmo-sdk-tablet, which has
  been replaced for maemo-control* .
  It's not working very well, though.
  It's good because it sets up all the parameters in your
  /etc/network/interfaces. But the switch to usb networking mode is not
  reliable.
 
  Marcio
 
  On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 2:46 PM, Andrea Grandi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
  Hi,
 
  that is not the package I was looking for :(
  I'm looking for the application that was installed in Extra menu. The
  one described here:
  http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/maemo-pc-connectivity/
 
  2008/7/3 Glauber Ferreira [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  Hi Andrea.
 
  Maemo PC Connectivity has been sent to Diablo extras yesterday.
 
  []s
  Glauber Ferreira
 
  On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Andrea Grandi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
  Hi all,
 
  using chinook I remember I had an icon in Extra menu, called Maemo PC
  Connectivity. I used it to setup USB networking to be able to connect
  from Eclipse/Pluthon. Now I can only find USB Networking in Control
  Panel, but I don't like it.
 
  It's very bugged compared with the old Maemo PC Connectivity. For
  example if I connect the cable then I disconnect it, it says me that
  USB is busy and I've to disconnect the cable (and it's already
  disconnected!), or if I don't connect any cable and click on Setup
  USB Networking I cannot use anymore the cable, I've to reboot the
  device.
 
  Any idea? Thanks for your support.
 
  --
  Andrea Grandi
  email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com
  website: http://www.andreagrandi.it
  PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc
  ___
  maemo-developers mailing list
  maemo-developers@maemo.org
  https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
 
 
 
  --
  Andrea Grandi
  email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com
  website: http://www.andreagrandi.it
  PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc
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  ___
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 --
 maemo.org docsmaster
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Has maemo-pc-connectivity been substituted by USB Networking applet (in control panel)?

2008-07-04 Thread Andrea Grandi
Hi,

2008/7/4 Marcio Macedo [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Hi,

 maemo-pc-connectivity is only a meta-package that install a series of
 connectivity-related packages.
 The old package you are looking for is masmo-sdk-tablet, which has
 been replaced for maemo-control* .
 It's not working very well, though.
 It's good because it sets up all the parameters in your
 /etc/network/interfaces. But the switch to usb networking mode is not
 reliable.

exactly. The applet in control panel is not very reliable :(

Is it possible to use the old one, untill the applet become more stable?

-- 
Andrea Grandi
email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com
website: http://www.andreagrandi.it
PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc
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Re: Has maemo-pc-connectivity been substituted by USB Networking applet (in control panel)?

2008-07-04 Thread Dave Neary
Hi,

Glauber Ferreira wrote:
 Hi Dave.
 
 Is the same information for N800 valid for N810?
 
 Should these [1] instructions about configuration and test of USB
 networking be added/merged to this maemo wiki page? These instructions
 consider that the user has installed the meta-package
 maemo-pc-connectivity on device.
 
 [1] - http://maemo.org/development/documentation/pc_connectivity/

The goal is to make the wiki page (1) useful, (2) up-to-date, and (3)
easily readable.

(1) implies accurate, and simple. (2) implies that we favour information
for N800 and N810 tablets, particularly OS2008 and OS2008.1. Information
for older OSes or for the 770, should be (IMHO) a footnote at lest, or a
reference to an archived page which doesn't show up when browsing the
wiki normally. And (3) implies removing cruft, attempting to have a
consistent writing style, and in general carving the rock to get to the
diamond inside.

Cheers,
Dave.

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770 info in wiki Re: Has maemo-pc-connectivity been substituted by USB Networking applet (in control panel)?

2008-07-04 Thread Frantisek Dufka
Dave Neary wrote:
 Information
 for older OSes or for the 770, should be (IMHO) a footnote at lest, or a
 reference to an archived page which doesn't show up when browsing the
 wiki normally.

Well, I would not be surprised to hear such opinion from @nokia.com but 
I am a bit surprised to hear this from @maemo.org :-)

Nokia 770 is not dead. There are still plenty of users of 770. You can 
still buy 770 new in a box on ebay and used devices change hands to new 
users who need information too. Please be careful with removing 
770/OS2006 or 2007(HE) information. Also people still use N800 with 
OS2007, latest in not always greatest :-)

Perhaps the newest stuff should be first but footnote or archived page 
is going too far IMO.

Can we tag pages or sections with OS/device names?

Frantisek
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Re: 770 info in wiki Re: Has maemo-pc-connectivity been substituted by USB Networking applet (in control panel)?

2008-07-04 Thread David Greaves
Frantisek Dufka wrote:
 Dave Neary wrote:
 Information
 for older OSes or for the 770, should be (IMHO) a footnote at lest, or a
 reference to an archived page which doesn't show up when browsing the
 wiki normally.
 
 Nokia 770 is not dead. There are still plenty of users of 770. You can 
 still buy 770 new in a box on ebay and used devices change hands to new 
 users who need information too. Please be careful with removing 
 770/OS2006 or 2007(HE) information. Also people still use N800 with 
 OS2007, latest in not always greatest :-)

I think one of the most important aspects of the OSS community is that it
provides support for the community *and the hardware it uses*.

I can compile a kernel for a 386 with some very old hardware (hell, only a
couple of years back I managed to read my Amstrad 2086 XT 20 Mb harddisk on a
modernish linux box with an AT slot); I can run OE on my SL5500;

Speaking as someone who would be next in line up against the wall with a
practically obsolete N800, I don't think the 770 should be 'archived' by
maemo.org, (even if Nokia decide to do so as it appears to have done with
Chinook and Diablo - correct me if I misunderstand).

Oh, and I think Nokia 'abandoning' the 770 is one of the *key* reasons to aim
for a fully open OS on the NIT.

 Perhaps the newest stuff should be first but footnote or archived page 
 is going too far IMO.
 
 Can we tag pages or sections with OS/device names?
Yes, the 'Category' capability of the wiki allows you to do this - very useful.

David
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Has maemo-pc-connectivity been substituted by USB Networking applet (in control panel)?

2008-07-03 Thread Andrea Grandi
Hi all,

using chinook I remember I had an icon in Extra menu, called Maemo PC
Connectivity. I used it to setup USB networking to be able to connect
from Eclipse/Pluthon. Now I can only find USB Networking in Control
Panel, but I don't like it.

It's very bugged compared with the old Maemo PC Connectivity. For
example if I connect the cable then I disconnect it, it says me that
USB is busy and I've to disconnect the cable (and it's already
disconnected!), or if I don't connect any cable and click on Setup
USB Networking I cannot use anymore the cable, I've to reboot the
device.

Any idea? Thanks for your support.

-- 
Andrea Grandi
email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com
website: http://www.andreagrandi.it
PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc
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Re: Has maemo-pc-connectivity been substituted by USB Networking applet (in control panel)?

2008-07-03 Thread Andrea Grandi
Hi,

that is not the package I was looking for :(
I'm looking for the application that was installed in Extra menu. The
one described here:
http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/maemo-pc-connectivity/

2008/7/3 Glauber Ferreira [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Hi Andrea.

 Maemo PC Connectivity has been sent to Diablo extras yesterday.

 []s
 Glauber Ferreira

 On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Andrea Grandi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi all,

 using chinook I remember I had an icon in Extra menu, called Maemo PC
 Connectivity. I used it to setup USB networking to be able to connect
 from Eclipse/Pluthon. Now I can only find USB Networking in Control
 Panel, but I don't like it.

 It's very bugged compared with the old Maemo PC Connectivity. For
 example if I connect the cable then I disconnect it, it says me that
 USB is busy and I've to disconnect the cable (and it's already
 disconnected!), or if I don't connect any cable and click on Setup
 USB Networking I cannot use anymore the cable, I've to reboot the
 device.

 Any idea? Thanks for your support.

 --
 Andrea Grandi
 email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com
 website: http://www.andreagrandi.it
 PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc
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-- 
Andrea Grandi
email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com
website: http://www.andreagrandi.it
PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc
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