Re: [maemo-developers] Maemo Terminal - 0.1
On 8/15/05, Kalle Vahlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2005/8/15, Wooky [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Looks very nice. Can I suggest: 1)Tabs, very useful in a device with limited screen real-state such as the N770; No tabs! They eat the screen estate you are supposed to save, using multiple appviews for active terminals would be smarter in my opinion. The appviews use the already persistent UI element and offer the same functionality that tabs do but better organized. The point is, different appviews can be included in different tabs, with each having their own title. So the application can have title as the executing command MaemoTerminal - pwd or the current directory of the current appview Maemo Terminal - /home -- regards, makuchaku --- http://makuchaku.info When you speak out with the courage of your convictions, people listen! -- Valmik Thapar, Wildlife Conservationist. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Maemo Terminal - 0.1
2005/8/15, Mayank Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 8/15/05, Kalle Vahlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2005/8/15, Wooky [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Looks very nice. Can I suggest: 1)Tabs, very useful in a device with limited screen real-state such as the N770; No tabs! They eat the screen estate you are supposed to save, using multiple appviews for active terminals would be smarter in my opinion. The appviews use the already persistent UI element and offer the same functionality that tabs do but better organized. The point is, different appviews can be included in different tabs, with each having their own title. I'm not following you. HildonAppViews can have unique titles, if that's what you are worried about. Multiple appviews with multiple tabs sounds like duplicating functionality *and* losing screen-estate. Disclaimer: I consider myself to be the president of Developers against tabs foundation, so take my rants with some moderation ;) -- Kalle Vahlman, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Maemo Terminal - 0.1
On 8/15/05, Kalle Vahlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2005/8/15, Mayank Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 8/15/05, Kalle Vahlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2005/8/15, Wooky [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Looks very nice. Can I suggest: 1)Tabs, very useful in a device with limited screen real-state such as the N770; No tabs! They eat the screen estate you are supposed to save, using multiple appviews for active terminals would be smarter in my opinion. The appviews use the already persistent UI element and offer the same functionality that tabs do but better organized. The point is, different appviews can be included in different tabs, with each having their own title. I'm not following you. HildonAppViews can have unique titles, if that's what you are worried about. Multiple appviews with multiple tabs sounds like duplicating functionality *and* losing screen-estate. Or there can be a nice way of switching between multiple appviews, something managed by a small toolbar. Disclaimer: I consider myself to be the president of Developers against tabs foundation, so take my rants with some moderation ;) :-) np -- regards, makuchaku --- http://makuchaku.info When you speak out with the courage of your convictions, people listen! -- Valmik Thapar, Wildlife Conservationist. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Maemo Terminal - 0.1
2005/8/15, Mayank Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 8/15/05, Kalle Vahlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not following you. HildonAppViews can have unique titles, if that's what you are worried about. Multiple appviews with multiple tabs sounds like duplicating functionality *and* losing screen-estate. Or there can be a nice way of switching between multiple appviews, something managed by a small toolbar. Like something like the task navigator does? It sounds pretty kludgy to have appviews that wouldn't be conrtolled by task navigator, but hey, it's open source ;) -- Kalle Vahlman, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Maemo Terminal - 0.1
On Monday 15 August 2005 10:16, Mayank Jain wrote: On 8/15/05, Kalle Vahlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2005/8/15, Mayank Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I'm not following you. HildonAppViews can have unique titles, if that's what you are worried about. Multiple appviews with multiple tabs sounds like duplicating functionality *and* losing screen-estate. Or there can be a nice way of switching between multiple appviews, something managed by a small toolbar. Disclaimer: I consider myself to be the president of Developers against tabs foundation, so take my rants with some moderation ;) What about the following points: - tabs are useful when browsing the web, I've found them less useful with terminals (I disable them since they eat screen-estate, even if I have plenty of that to go around). - having multiple views is certainly useful, however I dislike the idea of having a small toolbar to indicate them as well. Most of the time I'm not interested in seeing how many I have - but, sometimes it's useful to see what the different tabs are doing So, what I'm proposing is having an appview per session, and listing all open sessions (and what they're doing/current directory) in the appview menu (directly or in a submenu). Besides, if not using bt-keyboard (iff it will work), the virtual keyboard will be eating a lot of screenestate as it is. How does this sound? Certainly easier to implement than a small toolbar or having the tab-view. ak. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Maemo Terminal - 0.1
On 8/15/05, Kalle Vahlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2005/8/15, Mayank Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 8/15/05, Kalle Vahlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not following you. HildonAppViews can have unique titles, if that's what you are worried about. Multiple appviews with multiple tabs sounds like duplicating functionality *and* losing screen-estate. Or there can be a nice way of switching between multiple appviews, something managed by a small toolbar. Like something like the task navigator does? It sounds pretty kludgy to have appviews that wouldn't be conrtolled by task navigator, but hey, it's open source ;) You are perfectly right... Open source! :-) -- regards, makuchaku --- http://makuchaku.info When you speak out with the courage of your convictions, people listen! -- Valmik Thapar, Wildlife Conservationist. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Maemo Terminal - 0.1
2005/8/15, Aleksandr Koltsoff [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Monday 15 August 2005 10:16, Mayank Jain wrote: On 8/15/05, Kalle Vahlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2005/8/15, Mayank Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I'm not following you. HildonAppViews can have unique titles, if that's what you are worried about. Multiple appviews with multiple tabs sounds like duplicating functionality *and* losing screen-estate. Or there can be a nice way of switching between multiple appviews, something managed by a small toolbar. Disclaimer: I consider myself to be the president of Developers against tabs foundation, so take my rants with some moderation ;) What about the following points: - tabs are useful when browsing the web, I've found them less useful with terminals (I disable them since they eat screen-estate, even if I have plenty of that to go around). My point was mainly that appviews already implement the functionality of tabs, so using tabs that take up additional space is just silly. -- Kalle Vahlman, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Maemo Terminal - 0.1
On Monday 15 August 2005 10:33, Kalle Vahlman wrote: 2005/8/15, Aleksandr Koltsoff [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What about the following points: - tabs are useful when browsing the web, I've found them less useful with terminals (I disable them since they eat screen-estate, even if I have plenty of that to go around). My point was mainly that appviews already implement the functionality of tabs, so using tabs that take up additional space is just silly. I don't disagree with you :-). ak. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Maemo Terminal - 0.1
On 8/15/05, Aleksandr Koltsoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 15 August 2005 10:33, Kalle Vahlman wrote: 2005/8/15, Aleksandr Koltsoff [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What about the following points: - tabs are useful when browsing the web, I've found them less useful with terminals (I disable them since they eat screen-estate, even if I have plenty of that to go around). My point was mainly that appviews already implement the functionality of tabs, so using tabs that take up additional space is just silly. I don't disagree with you :-). So, what you are saying is, menus can be used to display the status of executing commands (or last executed command). If anyone wants to switch between the appviews, menus should be used? hmm interesting! That way, space taken by a toolbar would be saved :) -- regards, makuchaku --- http://makuchaku.info When you speak out with the courage of your convictions, people listen! -- Valmik Thapar, Wildlife Conservationist. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Maemo Terminal - 0.1
2005/8/15, Mayank Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 8/15/05, Aleksandr Koltsoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 15 August 2005 10:33, Kalle Vahlman wrote: 2005/8/15, Aleksandr Koltsoff [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What about the following points: - tabs are useful when browsing the web, I've found them less useful with terminals (I disable them since they eat screen-estate, even if I have plenty of that to go around). My point was mainly that appviews already implement the functionality of tabs, so using tabs that take up additional space is just silly. I don't disagree with you :-). So, what you are saying is, menus can be used to display the status of executing commands (or last executed command). If anyone wants to switch between the appviews, menus should be used? The task navigator (the vertical thingamajick in the left side of the screen) will display icons and provide an icon and title in the double-arrows menu for all HildonAppViews added to HildonApps. So you don't need to implement a menu for it (though you can). Now that I looked again at the screenshots (and after that, the code), seems like you don't integrate the terminal with task navigator at all yet so perhaps a visit to the howto section Adding Application To Menu is in order: http://maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_new_application.html#Adding-Application-To-Menu Happy hacking! -- Kalle Vahlman, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Maemo Terminal - 0.1
2005/8/15, Mayank Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED]: So, what you are saying is, menus can be used to display the status of executing commands (or last executed command). If anyone wants to switch between the appviews, menus should be used? Yes. That was the main idea. Although I'm not sure how usable it would be. Note that I can't imagine opening multiple sessions in 770, although I do that all the time on regular sized desktops. So it might be enough to use the TN-functionality. The problem with the TN approach could be (haven't tested) when you have more than a small amount of sessions. How does TN handle let's say, 20 appviews/applications open at the same time? (again, just guessing this time since I haven't tried this myself on maemo). If terminal emu use will be restricted to the VKB and the pointer, one could do more with usability by integrating some prediction on shell commands and file names directly in the VKB (some kind of small file/path selector) and some vkb-local command history mainly so that often used commands can be selected quickly, even between the sessions). This is probably impossible to do without taking VKB apart and it would require specialized code, so I'd think it's a no-no. Probably not worth it iff BT keyboards will work. Just my 20 mm worth :-). ak. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Maemo Terminal - 0.1
Hi, So, what you are saying is, menus can be used to display the status of executing commands (or last executed command). If anyone wants to switch between the appviews, menus should be used? Yes. That was the main idea. Although I'm not sure how usable it would be. Note that I can't imagine opening multiple sessions in 770, although I do that all the time on regular sized desktops. So it might be enough to use the TN-functionality. The problem with the TN approach could be (haven't tested) when you have more than a small amount of sessions. How does TN handle let's say, 20 appviews/applications open at the same time? (again, just guessing this time since I haven't tried this myself on maemo). TN will show last four views used as icons in the bar and in its menu it shows all the items. This is a standard GTK menu so it will scroll if needed. If terminal emu use will be restricted to the VKB and the pointer, one could do more with usability by integrating some prediction on shell commands and file names directly in the VKB (some kind of small file/path selector) and some vkb-local command history mainly so that often used commands can be selected quickly, even between the sessions). This is probably impossible to do without taking VKB apart and it would require specialized code, so I'd think it's a no-no. Probably not worth it iff BT keyboards will work. I have been thinking the same. The VKB can predict words little bit like T9 input on a mobile phone, but it is not context sensitive. VKB is pretty modular, so it should not be too difficult to add a prediction engine of your own. I would like to use bash with programmable prediction and then modify libreadline to store the set of strings to complete to to gconf or something like that. Then Gconf would include set of strings for completion for each window or something. This same gconf infra could then be used for email addresses etc. If libreadline is used also gdb and many other command line tools could take advance of it. The problem only is that how to do meaningfull mapping of the sets of strings for completion and x windows that VKB sees. Some 3l1t3 h4X0r x properties, that map to some Gconf keys.. :-) If I had the time, I might have tested this already... IMHO one might use a gnome or matchbox vkb as a base for this since meamo vkb is not optimized for shell usage. It lacks for example ctrl -key. For example, it is impossible to stop ping with the current VKB. :-( The device has a hardware key for escape so there is kind of hardware support for vi which is pretty cool :-) The emacs users would be in trouble, but with all that bloat and limited amount of memory, they would be in trouble anyway :-) Br, Sampo ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Maemo Terminal - 0.1
On 8/15/05, Wooky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looks very nice. Can I suggest: 1)Tabs, very useful in a device with limited screen real-state such as the N770; 2)configurable window name, i.e., allow it to display user, directory, etc. This also is useful to save space inside the terminal, since the user won't need to configure the prompt to show that. On a side note, is there a shell included in the N770 packages? bash, zsh? I'm not very familiar with zsh but it is said to have great command-completing built in, so it might be useful in the N770. Thanks Wooky :) I was also thinking of implementing the tab feature. The configurable name is also nice. Maemo's ability to display split title names, might be helpfull here ;-) -- regards, makuchaku --- http://makuchaku.info When you speak out with the courage of your convictions, people listen! -- Valmik Thapar, Wildlife Conservationist. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Maemo Terminal - 0.1
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wooky wrote: Looks very nice. Can I suggest: 1)Tabs, very useful in a device with limited screen real-state such as the N770; 2)configurable window name, i.e., allow it to display user, directory, etc. This also is useful to save space inside the terminal, since the user won't need to configure the prompt to show that. On a side note, is there a shell included in the N770 packages? bash, zsh? I'm not very familiar with zsh but it is said to have great command-completing built in, so it might be useful in the N770. I'm fairly certain at least busybox' ash will be included regards, Koen Message: 5 Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 21:28:15 +0530 From: Mayank Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [maemo-developers] Maemo Terminal - 0.1 To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi all, I'm feeling very happy to announce the release of Maemo Terminal v0.1. Its a very basic implementation of a shell prompt for Nokia 770. More sophistication will follow ;-) You can download the tarball (which i've finally made after much hair pulling) from http://makuchaku.info/stuff/projects/maemo.terminal/MaemoTerminal-0.1.tar.gz Some screenshots can be located here... http://makuchaku.modblog.com/?show=blogviewblog_id=709200 Please direct your valuable comments, either to the maemo-developers mailing list or in the comments section of my blog :) http://makuchaku.modblog.com/?show=blogviewblog_id=709321#blogcomments Thanks :-) PS: Don't forget to read the THANKS file... -- regards, makuchaku --- http://makuchaku.info When you speak out with the courage of your convictions, people listen! -- Valmik Thapar, Wildlife Conservationist. -- ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers End of maemo-developers Digest, Vol 4, Issue 18 *** -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFC/8sHMkyGM64RGpERAvNPAKCpAyINgHHpVZymBTHFpWjRDHO+WACeJga4 iAbxkU04M4ffqRx1kRA7c5o= =q3q4 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Maemo Terminal - 0.1
2005/8/15, Wooky [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Looks very nice. Can I suggest: 1)Tabs, very useful in a device with limited screen real-state such as the N770; No tabs! They eat the screen estate you are supposed to save, using multiple appviews for active terminals would be smarter in my opinion. The appviews use the already persistent UI element and offer the same functionality that tabs do but better organized. On a side note, is there a shell included in the N770 packages? bash, zsh? I'm not very familiar with zsh but it is said to have great command-completing built in, so it might be useful in the N770. Bash is included, and I don't see why zsh wouldn't install without problems. -- Kalle Vahlman, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
