Re: [Fwd: Re: Fwd: Skype on N800]
Hi, Have anybody tried to compile Wengo Phone for N800? Skype is very contradictive to linux tablet spirit - this software uses proprietary closed and encrypted protocol (closed also means weak); - written using obfuscation in software (decryption and checks also uses additional n800 power and resources) http://www.secdev.org/conf/skype_BHEU06.pdf (http://www.xakep.ru/post/38543/default.asp); - according to latest reports reads sensitive user information and nobody knows why (because software is closed source and obfuscated) and how it can be used by crackers (http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/08/26/1312256from=rss). So, Wengo is viable alternative to the Skype. Thanks, Denis On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 12:24:45 +0400, Alan Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry replied to the individual not the list -- man do i hate that feature of the list (and yes for the record, i completely disagree with every point made by that link that attempts to justify it) :) Original Message Subject: Re: Fwd: Skype on N800 Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 09:23:31 +0100 From: Alan Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Blog-City Ltd To: James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] The last point above has value in light of a recent development. I could point to 2 things 1. the shear hype surround the iPhone. and second the expert surfing done by the RAZR team managing to release a new color or other change every time sales began to slow. I agree -- the hype around the iPhone has been interesting to watch. Especially as they address the awful onscreen keyboard usage which seems to be getting people in a bit of a tizz. If you look at the video on the Apple site; they have everything the N800 has, except for one rather cool little feature. But that is something i am sure nokia could easily add in with a next release (predicts which key you are going to press next and makes that box bigger). Nokia -- get thy head out of the sand and take a leaf out of that Jobs boy book -- either start hyping up your cool stuff, or give US THE TOOLS and we'll do it for you! -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [Fwd: Re: Fwd: Skype on N800]
The RTCOMM software in development adds SIP support to the built-in software set, and so can be used as a skype replacement. GizmoProject has also been used as a closed-source but open-protocol voice client. (See planet.gnome.org for information on why that slashdot article is probably overblown, btw) Ryan DZ wrote: Hi, Have anybody tried to compile Wengo Phone for N800? Skype is very contradictive to linux tablet spirit - this software uses proprietary closed and encrypted protocol (closed also means weak); - written using obfuscation in software (decryption and checks also uses additional n800 power and resources) http://www.secdev.org/conf/skype_BHEU06.pdf (http://www.xakep.ru/post/38543/default.asp); - according to latest reports reads sensitive user information and nobody knows why (because software is closed source and obfuscated) and how it can be used by crackers (http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/08/26/1312256from=rss). So, Wengo is viable alternative to the Skype. Thanks, Denis On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 12:24:45 +0400, Alan Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry replied to the individual not the list -- man do i hate that feature of the list (and yes for the record, i completely disagree with every point made by that link that attempts to justify it) :) Original Message Subject: Re: Fwd: Skype on N800 Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 09:23:31 +0100 From: Alan Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Blog-City Ltd To: James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] The last point above has value in light of a recent development. I could point to 2 things 1. the shear hype surround the iPhone. and second the expert surfing done by the RAZR team managing to release a new color or other change every time sales began to slow. I agree -- the hype around the iPhone has been interesting to watch. Especially as they address the awful onscreen keyboard usage which seems to be getting people in a bit of a tizz. If you look at the video on the Apple site; they have everything the N800 has, except for one rather cool little feature. But that is something i am sure nokia could easily add in with a next release (predicts which key you are going to press next and makes that box bigger). Nokia -- get thy head out of the sand and take a leaf out of that Jobs boy book -- either start hyping up your cool stuff, or give US THE TOOLS and we'll do it for you! -- Ryan Pavlik AbiWord Win32 Platform Maintainer, Art Lead: www.abisource.com AbiWord Community Outreach Project: www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/ Optimism is the father that leads to achievement. -- Helen Keller The folder structure in a modern Linux distribution such as Ubuntu was largely inspired by the original UNIX foundations that were created by men with large beards and sensible jumpers. -- Jono Bacon, The Ubuntu Guide ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [Fwd: Re: Fwd: Skype on N800]
Denis, thanks for sharing the post re Skype. I have to believe that eBay management will be concerned enough about protecting the reputational equity that they have built over the years with their core business, auction services by either a) fixing the Skype software or at least b) explaining what the software is doing even if this turns out to be an innocuous artifact of the way Skype works and not some sinister plot for global domination by ebay or anyone else. Then too security through obscurity is not a very strong security model, so perhaps ebay will eventually find a way to open up its source code and find some other way to protect its intellectual property in the Skype service for which it paid a tidy sum. One way to keep Skype and its firewall evading ways off of the enterprise Microsoft desktop is to use a software restriction policy (hash rule) built into the Microsoft Windows Active Directory/Group Policy Architecture. Best Regards, John Holmblad Acadia Secure Networks DZ wrote: Hi, Have anybody tried to compile Wengo Phone for N800? Skype is very contradictive to linux tablet spirit - this software uses proprietary closed and encrypted protocol (closed also means weak); - written using obfuscation in software (decryption and checks also uses additional n800 power and resources) http://www.secdev.org/conf/skype_BHEU06.pdf (http://www.xakep.ru/post/38543/default.asp); - according to latest reports reads sensitive user information and nobody knows why (because software is closed source and obfuscated) and how it can be used by crackers (http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/08/26/1312256from=rss). So, Wengo is viable alternative to the Skype. Thanks, Denis On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 12:24:45 +0400, Alan Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry replied to the individual not the list -- man do i hate that feature of the list (and yes for the record, i completely disagree with every point made by that link that attempts to justify it) :) Original Message Subject: Re: Fwd: Skype on N800 Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 09:23:31 +0100 From: Alan Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Blog-City Ltd To: James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] The last point above has value in light of a recent development. I could point to 2 things 1. the shear hype surround the iPhone. and second the expert surfing done by the RAZR team managing to release a new color or other change every time sales began to slow. I agree -- the hype around the iPhone has been interesting to watch. Especially as they address the awful onscreen keyboard usage which seems to be getting people in a bit of a tizz. If you look at the video on the Apple site; they have everything the N800 has, except for one rather cool little feature. But that is something i am sure nokia could easily add in with a next release (predicts which key you are going to press next and makes that box bigger). Nokia -- get thy head out of the sand and take a leaf out of that Jobs boy book -- either start hyping up your cool stuff, or give US THE TOOLS and we'll do it for you! ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [Fwd: Re: Fwd: Skype on N800]
Thanks for information! This is very interesting and useful. BTW, I don't want to consider Skype wants to extract some sensitive information for malicious purposes but its obfuscated closed code and protocol decrease trust to it down to zero level :-) On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 23:42:23 +0400, Ryan Pavlik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The RTCOMM software in development adds SIP support to the built-in software set, and so can be used as a skype replacement. GizmoProject has also been used as a closed-source but open-protocol voice client. (See planet.gnome.org for information on why that slashdot article is probably overblown, btw) Ryan DZ wrote: Hi, Have anybody tried to compile Wengo Phone for N800? Skype is very contradictive to linux tablet spirit - this software uses proprietary closed and encrypted protocol (closed also means weak); - written using obfuscation in software (decryption and checks also uses additional n800 power and resources) http://www.secdev.org/conf/skype_BHEU06.pdf (http://www.xakep.ru/post/38543/default.asp); - according to latest reports reads sensitive user information and nobody knows why (because software is closed source and obfuscated) and how it can be used by crackers (http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/08/26/1312256from=rss). So, Wengo is viable alternative to the Skype. Thanks, Denis On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 12:24:45 +0400, Alan Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry replied to the individual not the list -- man do i hate that feature of the list (and yes for the record, i completely disagree with every point made by that link that attempts to justify it) :) Original Message Subject: Re: Fwd: Skype on N800 Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 09:23:31 +0100 From: Alan Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Blog-City Ltd To: James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] The last point above has value in light of a recent development. I could point to 2 things 1. the shear hype surround the iPhone. and second the expert surfing done by the RAZR team managing to release a new color or other change every time sales began to slow. I agree -- the hype around the iPhone has been interesting to watch. Especially as they address the awful onscreen keyboard usage which seems to be getting people in a bit of a tizz. If you look at the video on the Apple site; they have everything the N800 has, except for one rather cool little feature. But that is something i am sure nokia could easily add in with a next release (predicts which key you are going to press next and makes that box bigger). Nokia -- get thy head out of the sand and take a leaf out of that Jobs boy book -- either start hyping up your cool stuff, or give US THE TOOLS and we'll do it for you! -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
Skype is closed, proprietary software that uses an undocumented proprietary protocol. This mailing list is not the appropriate venue for hyping that sort of software. Big deal!!! So what its not open. I really do hate this sort of bigotry - Get over yourself! I drive a Subaru Impreza, and i have no idea how they do their AWD system, but you know what, it doesn't detract from a beautiful driving machine. Just enjoy the experience, and free up some of your life and energy for other things! :) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
this depends on how far you are willing to bury your head in the sand and raise your *** into the air...i will leave this 'experience' to others, sorry This is the third post in an unproductive (and now uncivil) thread. Please refrain from this type of behavior. - Mike Lococo ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
ola, This is the third post in an unproductive (and now uncivil) thread. my apologiesmy intention was not to be uncivil to anyone, it was only to point out the obvious. []'s Ian -- http://ianlawrence.info ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
On Fri, 2007-06-07 at 20:16 +0100, Alan Williamson wrote: Skype is closed, proprietary software that uses an undocumented proprietary protocol. This mailing list is not the appropriate venue for hyping that sort of software. Big deal!!! So what its not open. I really do hate this sort of bigotry - Get over yourself! Well, except, the people behind Skype have effectively dropped the ball on Linux versions and there is no way for the community to solve problems such as no video support, except by reverse engineering the protocol. Open Source does not suffer from this issue. Here is another reason, Skype has been found to be using the resources in your computer without letting the user know about it, it's a bit underhanded to say the least. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
On Fri, 6 Jul 2007, George Farris wrote: Here is another reason, Skype has been found to be using the resources in your computer without letting the user know about it, it's a bit underhanded to say the least. The people that take time to read the license would know about it, quoting from their license: 4.1 Utilization of Your computer. You hereby acknowledge that the Skype Software may utilize the processor and bandwidth of the computer (or other applicable device) You are utilizing, for the limited purpose of facilitating the communication between Skype Software users. Regards, Jac --- Jac KersingTechnical Consultant The-Box Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] CISSP RHCEhttp://www.the-box.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Role of maemo i.e. in Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
On Wed, 2007-07-04 at 19:10 +0100, ext Neil MacLeod wrote: If Nokia Internet Tablet staff wish that the Maemo mailing lists are kept platform neutral I didn't mean to keep the list platform neutral. I meant to keep it on topic with the maemo platform: open source software for maemo + Nokia related software. Sure, Skype runs on top of the maemo platform and the hardware conditions the maemo feature set. These are reasons strong enough not to consider this subjects off-topic, and they are interesting. My point was that these topics don't belong really to the main purpose of this list and this is why we don't push them actively. -- Quim Gil - http://maemo.org ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
On 7/2/07, Neil MacLeod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Skype seen in public details seem to have been found by chance and not through any concious effort on behalf of Nokia to push this information into the public domain - it's interesting to note that someone found a YouTube video yesterday demonstrating Skype on N800, but it's already been taken down! What's so wrong with building a little interest in the product through some viral marketing? Skype is closed, proprietary software that uses an undocumented proprietary protocol. This mailing list is not the appropriate venue for hyping that sort of software. I use Gizmo. I will not use Skype, because I don't want to see VoIP fragmented into proprietary networks the way IM is. mathew ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
On Wednesday 04 July 2007 02:03:26 Quim Gil wrote: On Wed, 2007-07-04 at 01:03 -0700, ext James Sparenberg wrote: the shear hype surround the iPhone. Comparing the AppleiPhone buzz with NokiaN800 buzz isn't accurate. The right comparison is NokiaN95. These terrains fall far out of the maemo scope, really. As a physical product goes I would agree with the above. But my point is not related to the product but rather the methodology of marketing. The n800 video that comes with the n800 would make a great commercial for example. Jobs doesn't sell electronics,computers, or phones. He sells a lifestyle. An attitude, He targets the kinds of TV that his market watches (National Geographic, TLC, Discovery, SciFi channel to name a few). This n800 is IMHO exactly that an attitude. No one here needed their Nokia any more than they would need an iPhone. This is a want and a passion. I'm just advocating that Nokia pander to the passion. James maemo has still many challenges to accomplish its core mission: open source development for Internet Tablets. What you are demanding are tools and spaces for creating this end-user buzz and make it grow. Having an open platform is helpful, but maemo is probably not the place. Nobody expects iPhone end users getting excited at developer.apple.com either. We need to keep the scope in developers, and additionally power users because they are an essential piece in any open source environment. Of course maemo can and should contribute to this buzz, and any ideas around this are welcome. From this to Skype-related buzz there is a too long jump, though. I believe what you are asking for needs to flourish and evolve around Tableteer, Nseries.com or a dedicated site for that. Let's see if we can meet your expectations in this context. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
[Fwd: Re: Fwd: Skype on N800]
Sorry replied to the individual not the list -- man do i hate that feature of the list (and yes for the record, i completely disagree with every point made by that link that attempts to justify it) :) Original Message Subject: Re: Fwd: Skype on N800 Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 09:23:31 +0100 From: Alan Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Blog-City Ltd To: James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] The last point above has value in light of a recent development. I could point to 2 things 1. the shear hype surround the iPhone. and second the expert surfing done by the RAZR team managing to release a new color or other change every time sales began to slow. I agree -- the hype around the iPhone has been interesting to watch. Especially as they address the awful onscreen keyboard usage which seems to be getting people in a bit of a tizz. If you look at the video on the Apple site; they have everything the N800 has, except for one rather cool little feature. But that is something i am sure nokia could easily add in with a next release (predicts which key you are going to press next and makes that box bigger). Nokia -- get thy head out of the sand and take a leaf out of that Jobs boy book -- either start hyping up your cool stuff, or give US THE TOOLS and we'll do it for you! -- Alan Williamson a wiki -and- a blog @ http://www.Blog-City.com/ b: http://alan.blog-city.com/ ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [Fwd: Re: Fwd: Skype on N800]
On Wednesday 04 July 2007 01:24:45 Alan Williamson wrote: Sorry replied to the individual not the list -- man do i hate that feature of the list (and yes for the record, i completely disagree with every point made by that link that attempts to justify it) :) Original Message Subject: Re: Fwd: Skype on N800 Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 09:23:31 +0100 From: Alan Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Blog-City Ltd To: James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] The last point above has value in light of a recent development. I could point to 2 things 1. the shear hype surround the iPhone. and second the expert surfing done by the RAZR team managing to release a new color or other change every time sales began to slow. I agree -- the hype around the iPhone has been interesting to watch. Especially as they address the awful onscreen keyboard usage which seems to be getting people in a bit of a tizz. If you look at the video on the Apple site; they have everything the N800 has, except for one rather cool little feature. But that is something i am sure nokia could easily add in with a next release (predicts which key you are going to press next and makes that box bigger). Nokia -- get thy head out of the sand and take a leaf out of that Jobs boy book -- either start hyping up your cool stuff, or give US THE TOOLS and we'll do it for you! One question right off the bat ... will Nokia be at Linux World in San Francisco this August. A few years ago the Zarus team managed to sell several hundred of them during the show just by demo'ing and offering a by it now discount. I know I've sold more than just a few just by using mine. Heck bring in both the 770 (at the current discount) and the n800 (at 10% off ror a show special or give away an extra battery/special case/whatever) I'd be willing to bet you could drop off several hundred in short order. Note too that the people buying these would be a combination of tech geeks (Sr Admins CIO's etc) and straight business types. James ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
On Wed, 2007-07-04 at 01:03 -0700, ext James Sparenberg wrote: the shear hype surround the iPhone. Comparing the AppleiPhone buzz with NokiaN800 buzz isn't accurate. The right comparison is NokiaN95. These terrains fall far out of the maemo scope, really. maemo has still many challenges to accomplish its core mission: open source development for Internet Tablets. What you are demanding are tools and spaces for creating this end-user buzz and make it grow. Having an open platform is helpful, but maemo is probably not the place. Nobody expects iPhone end users getting excited at developer.apple.com either. We need to keep the scope in developers, and additionally power users because they are an essential piece in any open source environment. Of course maemo can and should contribute to this buzz, and any ideas around this are welcome. From this to Skype-related buzz there is a too long jump, though. I believe what you are asking for needs to flourish and evolve around Tableteer, Nseries.com or a dedicated site for that. Let's see if we can meet your expectations in this context. -- Quim Gil - http://maemo.org ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Role of maemo i.e. in Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
Quim Gil wrote: Now, a question and a long thought for the maemo lovers: What do you think we should do? Bring the Nokia devices/commercial agenda also here or keep maemo apart from that? I guess until other non-Nokia Maemo-based devices exist (mid 2008?), Maemo == Nokia and vice versa. For the time being, the Maemo mailing lists are the only direct means of communication I/we have with Nokia personnel that are directly involved with software (and to a lesser extent, hardware) development. If Nokia Internet Tablet staff wish that the Maemo mailing lists are kept platform neutral perhaps it would be a good idea if they created their own mailing list where we could post questions, suggestions and direct feedback concerning the products they are responsible for. Mailing lists seem to provide a more intimate relationship between users/community and developers, far more so than submitting questions to a web site which may or may not receive a reply. Perhaps comp.handhelds.maemo.users.nokia to handle Nokia specific discussion? In the meantime Tableteer (Nokia official site for end users) has a feedback channel while http://www.womworld.com/nseries/category/n800/ (unofficial but sponsored by Nokia Nseries, I'm sure they read the comments) The only feedback related link I could find on that site (Contact Us) seems to be related to site content, rather than feedback about specific devices or other queries. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough, I'd like to know what's happened to the Case... :) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Role of maemo i.e. in Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
Hanno, Neil, Randall co. Your comments are very interesting. I have already reported to the right people internally quoting some of your insightful thoughts and linking to this whole thread. I'm confident we will do better next time. Now, a question and a long thought for the maemo lovers: What do you think we should do? Bring the Nokia devices/commercial agenda also here or keep maemo apart from that? In one hand we are trying to build a maemo community based on the open source software and development interests. We are putting a lot of effort creating a space with own identity and open source friendliness. Not pushing other topics, like Nokia devices or proprietary and commercial applications, is a decision made on purpose not to 'infoxicate' the main purpose of maemo: open source development for the Internet tablets. Now, because of this openness maemo is the easiest entry point for all sorts of feedback that, in fact, haven't got much to do with open source development or even usage. Like for example the Skype launch. In the meantime Tableteer (Nokia official site for end users) has a feedback channel while http://www.womworld.com/nseries/category/n800/ (unofficial but sponsored by Nokia Nseries, I'm sure they read the comments) is precisely about devices end user software hype and coolnessn no matter if it's open or closed as far as it's cool. And let's not forget the Nokia support channels, that (have no doubt) report to the management lines any relevant feedback and complaints. Does the maemo community have a clear answer to this question? In the meantime I hope the question itself helps the maemo community understanding why the maemo team is not hurrying to comment here a sneak preview of Skype. Almost the same applies to details of a next Internet Tablet OS release besides the platform and open source related components, that we are trying to address increasingly through http://maemo.org/intro/roadmap.html , http://sardine.garage.maemo.org/ , http://modest.garage.maemo.org/ and other stuff commented through the maemo-developers mailing list, our blogs aggregated in http://planet.maemo.org and public presentations like http://desdeamericaconamor.org/blog/node/369 or Ari Jaaksi's keynote in http://www.guadec.org/schedule/core (open source lovers and developers, stay tuned that day). The maemo team acknowledges and tries to improve on any issue you report about open source software development. But we really are not sure about how far are we supposed to go on topics like Skype, for the reasons mentioned above. PS: Don't believe rumors of mass holidays in Finland. Even if they were true they have nothing to do with our releases. Skype in the N800 was promised and very soon you will be able to see it in your own N800, together with some other cool stuff largely requested and discussed in this list, and present in the maemo roadmap. -- Quim Gil - http://maemo.org ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Role of maemo i.e. in Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
Am Dienstag 03 Juli 2007 08:02 schrieb Quim Gil: What do you think we should do? Bring the Nokia devices/commercial agenda also here or keep maemo apart from that? We shouldn't make this an either-or black-and-white question. In one hand we are trying to build a maemo community based on the open source software and development interests. We are putting a lot of effort creating a space with own identity and open source friendliness. Not pushing other topics, like Nokia devices or proprietary and commercial applications, is a decision made on purpose not to 'infoxicate' the main purpose of maemo: open source development for the Internet tablets. Now, because of this openness maemo is the easiest entry point for all sorts of feedback that, in fact, haven't got much to do with open source development or even usage. Like for example the Skype launch. An end user can't tell the difference between a maemo issue and a Nokia issue. He/she comes here because they found this list and like mailing lists better than forums. They ask their questions, and I'd really appreciate it if Nokia management people would read it, too (and answer from time to time). Allright, I see your problem. If you answer one question and don't answer an other one, there'll be shouts Ha! Shame on Nokia! They didn't answer my question! and that sort of stuff. But I think end users also have to learn the ways of open source development. They should know that nobody is obliged to answer their questions or to fix the bugs they report. In time, they will learn that even with these limitations, support here is much better than with proprietary software because here they can get into contact with really competent people instead of call center girlies. And for some questions, Nokia officials would be the most competent people to answer them. Do it! In the meantime Tableteer (Nokia official site for end users) has a feedback channel while http://www.womworld.com/nseries/category/n800/ (unofficial but sponsored by Nokia Nseries, I'm sure they read the comments) is precisely about devices end user software hype and coolnessn no matter if it's open or closed as far as it's cool. And let's not forget the Nokia support channels, that (have no doubt) report to the management lines any relevant feedback and complaints. Don't forget the other direction: How do users get feedback from Nokia? I consider this at least as important. If somebody sends feedback and gets no immediate response it is discouraging. Companies always like to collect feedback but are not willing to offer the same in the opposite direction. Does the maemo community have a clear answer to this question? I don't know :-) Personally, I prefer to have things in one place. I don't like searching the internet picking pieces of information from a dozen of websites, forums, and blogs. I'd very much like it if everything that's got something to do with technical aspects of the Nokia Internet tablets would be here on maemo-devel and maemo-users. Mailing lists are the very best way of giving feedback - in both directions. Thanks, Hans ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia Communication -- Role of maemo i.e. in Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
What do you think we should do? Bring the Nokia devices/commercial agenda also here or keep maemo apart from that? Maemo should work to function and be perceived as an independent organization from Nokia. It should work toward an independent server infrastructure and a governance model that is not solely dependent on Nokia for support. That said, Nokia is the largest contributor to the platform and is doing the most with it, both in terms of open applications and closed applications. Announcing your projects and giving progress updates regarding them (as any other developer would) is important and will be valued by the community. People on the developers list may have more complex opinions about what should happen there, announcements of closed source software don't contribute much to the conversation about how one develops for the platform, but I think any news that relates to the use of the maemo platform is welcome on the Users list. Almost the same applies to details of a next Internet Tablet OS release besides the platform and open source related components, that we are trying to address increasingly through http://maemo.org/intro/roadmap.html , http://sardine.garage.maemo.org/ , http://modest.garage.maemo.org/ and other stuff commented through the maemo-developers mailing list, our blogs aggregated in http://planet.maemo.org and public presentations like http://desdeamericaconamor.org/blog/node/369 or Ari Jaaksi's keynote in http://www.guadec.org/schedule/core (open source lovers and developers, stay tuned that day). These are great resources, continue to communicate using whatever channels are most appropriate. But it is worth noting that the open source community is accustomed to mailing lists being the authoritative source for news. Whenever possible, it would be good to comment on the list when a piece of information becomes public, along the lines of: There's going to be a demo of the new OS release, including the Skype client, at the Digital Experience show in NYC, check it out if you're in the area. The details and release date still aren't public, but we're running more or less on schedule. See our January press release for the public 'schedule': http://www.nokia.com/A4136001?newsid=1096860 Thanks, Mike Lococo ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Role of maemo i.e. in Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
On Tue, 2007-03-07 at 17:37 -0400, Michael Wiktowy wrote: On 7/3/07, Kevin T. Neely [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For example: Poor Skype just couldn't get their software ready, however, and I went with Gizmo. I likely would have anyway, as the open source model appeals to me and I see no real difference between the two, other than user base. The gizmo client works wonderfully well thus far, with only the answer bug on the free callin number. I bought a local number, and that works great, ringing my 770 and mobile phone simultaneously. I would just like to point out that while Gizmo follows open standards and inter-operates with open source SIP clients and I like Gizmo a lot, it is most certainly not open source. There is no *usable* open source SIP client for the 770/N800 ATM AFAIK. Except you can't pay the buggers. I've been trying to put $10.00 on my call out for a week now. It's very frustrating. They better pick up their customer service or phfft they'll be gone. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Role of maemo i.e. in Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
On Tue, Jul 03, 2007 at 05:37:01PM -0400, Michael Wiktowy wrote: On 7/3/07, Kevin T. Neely [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For example: Poor Skype just couldn't get their software ready, however, and I went with Gizmo. I likely would have anyway, as the open source model appeals to me and I see no real difference between the two, other than user base. I would just like to point out that while Gizmo follows open standards and inter-operates with open source SIP clients and I like Gizmo a You are completely right, sorry about that. I wasn't thinking and meant open standards instead of source. I'm also pretty new to the SIP stuff, and sometimes think about Asterisk when I'm thinking about Gizmo. Mostly because I plan to do a asterisk implementation if I can find the time, and the Gizmo client will interface with that. thank you! Kevin -- In Vino Veritas http://astroturfgarden.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
Skype seen (and pictured) working in the N800 in a Nokia stand at a public event. Isn't this a communication? But before someone jumps to my neck, I will share some ideas in order to put this thread in the right track: - Companies sign agreements when collaborating. In the agreements they define the levels of confidentiality of the collaboration among many other details. - Mixing commercial and proprietary software practices with free and open source software practices might lead very easily to a mismatch of expectations. - maemo is an open source development platform and the maemo team is willing to discuss any topic related to development or open source here or in maemo-developers. - It is fine to discuss in this list issues about proprietary applications for end users, hardware or even accessories. However, if you are looking for official Nokia answers about these topics you better try in the Nokia product page http://nokia.com/n800 and the support channels linked there. - We really don't want to force the community to beg/demand anything. We simply don't have answers for everything as fast as you would like. What we are having here is a complex (and generally fruitful) dialog between a corporation, its customers, a community of developers and a maemo core team. I would say we (all) are not doing bad, and it's improving. Comparing this dialog to the desired practices of community open source development is fine, this is a challenge we want to take. Let's not forget though that our picture is far more complex than most open source projects (volume of code, volume in general, hardware development, global competitors, mainstream products, corporate context, commercial partners...) The positive counterpart of this complexity is that Nokia can bring the open source technologies behind maemo to a next level if this project continues its way to a Nokia-size success. Upstream developers and wise/power users have seen some impact already in the Linux and free desktop context, only two years after maemo and the 770 was announced. PS: You would be surprised how many people work in Finland during July. -- Quim Gil - http://maemo.org ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
MoRpHeUz schrieb: Just to say that something like that came to public when we had the announcement of Skype for N800. It said that at the end of the first semester we would have Skype for N800 and if I'm not wrong (I'm not sure about this), somewhere they pointed out that we also should have a firmware release, this is why everybody is talking about this imminent firmware. The end of the first semester was last week. A new announcement / status update wouldn't hurt. Regards, Hanno ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I want to apologize to the entire list and especially to the hardworking N800 folks. My original questions about release of information were misunderstood and were never intended to indict anyone involved. I didn't think that there was anything inflammatory in what I said but perhaps I could have taken more time than I did to better word it. Suffice to say I do understand well the need for secrecy and in no way intended to undermine that. Tablet users should understand that Nokia has reasons for keeping certain details proprietary. My goal was only to ask for some sort of official statement that could be provided to a community eager for any news at all, even bad. I in no way expected that secret details should be made available to the users in any way. I am sorry that I was not careful enough in the wording of my post and provided the wrong impression to some. For the record, I'm not flaming anyone in particular either - well OK, maybe just the whole Nokia Marketing Department! :) The secrecy is understandable where some aspects of development are concerned, but my main point is that Nokia could do more to build some hype about the forthcoming release by dropping a few hints in public, pretty much as Hanno pointed out. Nothing too detailed (although more detail would be nice) - just enough to whet the appetite, and if releases slip to give us a brief update. The Skype seen in public details seem to have been found by chance and not through any concious effort on behalf of Nokia to push this information into the public domain - it's interesting to note that someone found a YouTube video yesterday demonstrating Skype on N800, but it's already been taken down! What's so wrong with building a little interest in the product through some viral marketing? Tantalise your users, allow some word of mouth marketing to take place, torment us with hints, stimulate demand for this product. If something is secret then fair enough don't mention it but where you are able to discuss some great new features coming down the pipe let's hear it - maybe even a YouTube video so bloggers can write about it too! Let's build some (realistic) hype about the future releases in order to help promote this product! The current silence is deafening. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
Fortunately a forum user at ITT downloaded the original Skype on N800 YouTube video and has reposted it[1] - power to the people! ;) Skype appears 36 seconds into the video - it's not very clear and quite brief but this kind of thing (or a much improved version) would do wonders to get people talking about the N800... 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcrcLSae-t0 ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Skype on N800
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/shut-yo-mouth/is-that-skype-on-a-nokia-n800-273037.php So, i would have thought i would have heard about this first on this list. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Skype on N800
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/shut-yo-mouth/is-that-skype-on-a-nokia-n800-273037.php So, i would have thought i would have heard about this first on this list. Skype released a beta for Linux, so it's normal. http://www.skype.com/intl/en/download/skype/linux/ See the requirements: * Qt 4.2.1+ * D-Bus 1.0.0 * libsigc++ 2.0.2 * libasound2 1.0.12 I'm not sure N800 supports it all. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Skype on N800
This Skype player for Linux is there for a long time =) And Skype for N800 will be fully supported by n800 as Nokia+Skype released a note about it at the start of the year. br, On 6/29/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/shut-yo-mouth/is-that-skype-on-a-nokia-n800-273037.php So, i would have thought i would have heard about this first on this list. Skype released a beta for Linux, so it's normal. http://www.skype.com/intl/en/download/skype/linux/ See the requirements: * Qt 4.2.1+ * D-Bus 1.0.0 * libsigc++ 2.0.2 * libasound2 1.0.12 I'm not sure N800 supports it all. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- --- Blog: http://labs.morpheuz.eng.br/blog/ PGP: 0xDBEEAAC3 @ wwwkeys.pgp.net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Skype on N800
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/shut-yo-mouth/is-that-skype-on-a-nokia-n800-273037.php The JK post (1) is much more informative. This has been scheduled for the end of the quarter and a fair number of folks are waiting with baited breath for the next OS update in expectation that Skype will be in it. However, JK notes that his sources at the Nokia booth suggest that video calls will not be supported... which is fantastically disappointing. Video calling is _by_far_ the most useful potential application for the camera. (1) http://jkontherun.blogs.com/jkontherun/2007/06/skype-on-the-no.html Thanks, Mike ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Fwd: Skype on N800
why this list doesn't change REPLY-TO? -- Forwarded message -- From: Максим Лопарёв [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 30.06.2007 0:33 Subject: Re: Skype on N800 To: George Farris [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2007/6/29, George Farris [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Fri, 2007-29-06 at 10:37 -0400, Mike Lococo wrote: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/shut-yo-mouth/is-that-skype-on-a-nokia-n800-273037.php The JK post (1) is much more informative. This has been scheduled for the end of the quarter and a fair number of folks are waiting with baited breath for the next OS update in expectation that Skype will be in it. However, JK notes that his sources at the Nokia booth suggest that video calls will not be supported... which is fantastically disappointing. Video calling is _by_far_ the most useful potential application for the camera. (1) http://jkontherun.blogs.com/jkontherun/2007/06/skype-on-the-no.html Did you expect anything else? The people behind Skype have no interest in Linux at all. Video on Linux is a no brainer, they could have included it a long time ago. Basically there is probably about .25 of a person working on this app. The best that could happen is someone reverse engineers the skype protocol and we can kiss the rotten company goodbye. I disagree, the better would port new version of telepathy which already present in n770/n800 for chat and voice but very old snapshot. Moreover it based on open XMPP standard used by google if you want weighted names. This new version according to screenshots on the site already implements video calls. -- Sayonara, Max. -- Sayonara, Max. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
On Sat, Jun 30, 2007 at 12:35:53AM +0400, Максим Лопарёв wrote: why this list doesn't change REPLY-TO? http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html -- Eric Cooper e c c @ c m u . e d u ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: Fwd: Skype on N800
Nice info Eric, thanks. Open question to N800 program folks: what is so wrong about providing more communications to the community about updates? Lot of owners being very patient about Skype and OS releases, but irritated about the silence. Can't we at least provide SOMEthing to them??? They know Finland started mass vacation and so they're disappointed nothing came out today... Randall (Randy) Arnold Quality Feedback Analyst Nokia-CMO/Dallas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ext Eric Cooper Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 4:01 PM To: maemo-users@maemo.org Subject: Re: Fwd: Skype on N800 On Sat, Jun 30, 2007 at 12:35:53AM +0400, Максим Лопарёв wrote: why this list doesn't change REPLY-TO? http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html -- Eric Cooper e c c @ c m u . e d u ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Fwd: Skype on N800
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nice info Eric, thanks. Open question to N800 program folks: what is so wrong about providing more communications to the community about updates? Lot of owners being very patient about Skype and OS releases, but irritated about the silence. Can't we at least provide SOMEthing to them??? They know Finland started mass vacation and so they're disappointed nothing came out today... Randall (Randy) Arnold Quality Feedback Analyst Nokia-CMO/Dallas Nokia - please listen to Randall! His view is representative of many of your users. It's apparent that Nokia have no issues communicating good news but seem to be far less forthcoming when bad news needs to be disseminated to the community. On several occasions Nokia have not bothered to communicate the bad news at all (eg. where the heck is the N800 case - just tell us if it's cancelled, or merely delayed[1]) or you have forced the community to beg/demand information updates (eg. future 770 development). If Skype is delayed beyond H1 (which it almost certainly will be unless it's delivered Saturday) please let us know if/when it's expected. We'd much rather have this update than be kept in the dark. Think of it like when you are waiting for a train that is running late - it's much better to have an announcement informing you the train is going to be 5 minutes late than to be kept in the dark and told nothing at all! The secrecy surrounding firmware releases and future OS updates is utterly ridiculous and undermines the whole Maemo/Internet Tablet effort - it's not necessary, adds to the overall user confusion and frustration, and ultimately helps nobody. Nokia: you're a communications company. Communicate, communicate and communicate! 1. http://www.expansys.com/p.aspx?i=144920 ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
