Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Op vrijdag 16 maart 2012 16:15:22 schreef Pascal Terjan: > On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 15:11, Maarten Vanraes wrote: > > Op vrijdag 16 maart 2012 08:57:45 schreef Samuel Verschelde: > > [...] > > > >> It's already the case. If you re-read Ennael's mail about version > >> freeze, it says exactly that about exceptions. > >> > >> Samuel > > > > i'm looking at this mail, but don't see the exact same exceptions? > > > > https://www.mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/2012-March/012533.html > > > > which email are you looking at? > > Criteria for accepting updates > -- > Since we aim for stability, the criteria would be near the ones of > updates. ah, like this... i read this as "near" (ie: not exact) and then the next parts were clarifications on the criteria (and the client/server protocol ones weren't in there). my bad, although in my defence, it could have been worded better, or a wiki policy with a link to it in this email. imho, if this were clearer, then i would guess misc would on his original email likely ask questions regarding client/server protocol changes as well... so i can only conclude that it might not have been 100% clear for everyone. (and i wasn't the only one)
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 15:11, Maarten Vanraes wrote: > Op vrijdag 16 maart 2012 08:57:45 schreef Samuel Verschelde: > [...] >> It's already the case. If you re-read Ennael's mail about version freeze, >> it says exactly that about exceptions. >> >> Samuel > > i'm looking at this mail, but don't see the exact same exceptions? > > https://www.mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/2012-March/012533.html > > which email are you looking at? Criteria for accepting updates -- Since we aim for stability, the criteria would be near the ones of updates.
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Op vrijdag 16 maart 2012 08:57:45 schreef Samuel Verschelde: [...] > It's already the case. If you re-read Ennael's mail about version freeze, > it says exactly that about exceptions. > > Samuel i'm looking at this mail, but don't see the exact same exceptions? https://www.mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/2012-March/012533.html which email are you looking at?
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Le jeudi 15 mars 2012 20:35:08, Maarten Vanraes a écrit : > Op donderdag 15 maart 2012 18:35:04 schreef Juan Luis Baptiste: > > On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Bertaux Xavier wrote: > > >> If this is the case, then I say that xonotic should be allowed to be > > >> updated. > > > > > > I'm not about to be okay with that, a version Freeze only accepts > > > updates on bug fixes and security warnings, so RC to Release is OK but > > > not to revision's change, otherwise that would mean that if fate > > > xonotic in version 0.7 just before the Release we should built. > > > To me this should be pushed Backport, to limit the update after Release > > > > Backports are for new versions, not bug fixes. In this case even as > > this is a new version, the use of an older version of the game client > > with a new game server version could bring issues to users, so that > > makes this release more of a "bug fix release", because we are trying > > to avoid any possible problem to our users, not because we want to > > have the latest version of the game. If we leave the current version > > and then a user reports a problem while playing the game, the 0.6 or > > 0.7 or whatever version is available at the time would be pushed as an > > update, not as a backport. > > well, the version policy is for updates. > > my point here is that we should maybe equalize & simplify our policys by > having the same kind of "exceptions" in both policies. > It's already the case. If you re-read Ennael's mail about version freeze, it says exactly that about exceptions. Samuel
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Op donderdag 15 maart 2012 18:35:04 schreef Juan Luis Baptiste: > On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Bertaux Xavier wrote: > >> If this is the case, then I say that xonotic should be allowed to be > >> updated. > > > > I'm not about to be okay with that, a version Freeze only accepts > > updates on bug fixes and security warnings, so RC to Release is OK but > > not to revision's change, otherwise that would mean that if fate xonotic > > in version 0.7 just before the Release we should built. > > To me this should be pushed Backport, to limit the update after Release > > Backports are for new versions, not bug fixes. In this case even as > this is a new version, the use of an older version of the game client > with a new game server version could bring issues to users, so that > makes this release more of a "bug fix release", because we are trying > to avoid any possible problem to our users, not because we want to > have the latest version of the game. If we leave the current version > and then a user reports a problem while playing the game, the 0.6 or > 0.7 or whatever version is available at the time would be pushed as an > update, not as a backport. well, the version policy is for updates. my point here is that we should maybe equalize & simplify our policys by having the same kind of "exceptions" in both policies. of course, there may be a good reason to now similar exceptions to both policies, it's just that atm, i don't see any.
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Bertaux Xavier wrote: >>> >> If this is the case, then I say that xonotic should be allowed to be updated. > I'm not about to be okay with that, a version Freeze only accepts > updates on bug fixes and security warnings, so RC to Release is OK but > not to revision's change, otherwise that would mean that if fate xonotic > in version 0.7 just before the Release we should built. > To me this should be pushed Backport, to limit the update after Release > Backports are for new versions, not bug fixes. In this case even as this is a new version, the use of an older version of the game client with a new game server version could bring issues to users, so that makes this release more of a "bug fix release", because we are trying to avoid any possible problem to our users, not because we want to have the latest version of the game. If we leave the current version and then a user reports a problem while playing the game, the 0.6 or 0.7 or whatever version is available at the time would be pushed as an update, not as a backport. -- Juancho
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Le 15/03/2012 17:39, Shlomi Fish a écrit : > Hi all, > > On Thu, 15 Mar 2012 16:50:33 +0200 > Anssi Hannula wrote: > >> 14.03.2012 09:26, Maarten Vanraes kirjoitti: >>> Op woensdag 14 maart 2012 01:16:23 schreef Juan Luis Baptiste: On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 7:21 AM, Michael Scherer wrote: > Le samedi 10 mars 2012 à 10:26 +0100, Thierry Vignaud a écrit : >> Hi >> >> please let in xonotic-0.6.0 >> It's just a game that impacts nothing else. > Niet. > > That's bugfix or security fixes. Well I vote to be updated, why ? global game servers are currently running 0.6.0, and by personal experience over several years (omg how much time wasted on this) these FPS games need to have the same client/server version, in some cases different versions won't work at all (ie. Urban Terror 3.7 -> 4.0 -> 4.1, Warsow 0.5 -> 0.8 etc). I just did the test of running a 0.5.0 client on a 0.6.0 server and it works, but a big and annoying yellow announce floats across the screen remaining you that a new version is available. I also talked with one dev over IRC and he told me that there could be issues when running different client/server versions. So just to be on the safe side this new version should be pushed. If not then probably we will need to do it later as an update if any problems arise. I commit my self to test the new version, I know very well how this game works. >>> IINM we have some kind of exception regarding games for their client/server >>> relation regarding updates vs backports? if so, then perhaps we could have >>> the >>> same policy wrt updates to version freeze? >> Yes, we do. Version policy (i.e. no-new-versions-in-updates policy) has >> an exception for "Software that is version-bound to an online service >> (games, virus scanners?) and will only work with the latest version." >> >> This doesn't 100% fit xonotic, though, as online play doesn't *require* >> a specific version. However, as it does impede the online playing >> experience and (AFAIU) online-play is a significant part of xonotic, I'd >> side on the 'update' verdict here. >> >> What do other people think regarding this aspect? >> > If this is the case, then I say that xonotic should be allowed to be updated. I'm not about to be okay with that, a version Freeze only accepts updates on bug fixes and security warnings, so RC to Release is OK but not to revision's change, otherwise that would mean that if fate xonotic in version 0.7 just before the Release we should built. To me this should be pushed Backport, to limit the update after Release Cheers Xavier
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Hi all, On Thu, 15 Mar 2012 16:50:33 +0200 Anssi Hannula wrote: > 14.03.2012 09:26, Maarten Vanraes kirjoitti: > > Op woensdag 14 maart 2012 01:16:23 schreef Juan Luis Baptiste: > >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 7:21 AM, Michael Scherer wrote: > >>> Le samedi 10 mars 2012 à 10:26 +0100, Thierry Vignaud a écrit : > Hi > > please let in xonotic-0.6.0 > It's just a game that impacts nothing else. > >>> > >>> Niet. > >>> > >>> That's bugfix or security fixes. > >> > >> Well I vote to be updated, why ? global game servers are currently > >> running 0.6.0, and by personal experience over several years (omg how > >> much time wasted on this) these FPS games need to have the same > >> client/server version, in some cases different versions won't work at > >> all (ie. Urban Terror 3.7 -> 4.0 -> 4.1, Warsow 0.5 -> 0.8 etc). > >> > >> I just did the test of running a 0.5.0 client on a 0.6.0 server and it > >> works, but a big and annoying yellow announce floats across the screen > >> remaining you that a new version is available. I also talked with one > >> dev over IRC and he told me that there could be issues when running > >> different client/server versions. > >> > >> So just to be on the safe side this new version should be pushed. If > >> not then probably we will need to do it later as an update if any > >> problems arise. I commit my self to test the new version, I know very > >> well how this game works. > > > > IINM we have some kind of exception regarding games for their client/server > > relation regarding updates vs backports? if so, then perhaps we could have > > the > > same policy wrt updates to version freeze? > > Yes, we do. Version policy (i.e. no-new-versions-in-updates policy) has > an exception for "Software that is version-bound to an online service > (games, virus scanners?) and will only work with the latest version." > > This doesn't 100% fit xonotic, though, as online play doesn't *require* > a specific version. However, as it does impede the online playing > experience and (AFAIU) online-play is a significant part of xonotic, I'd > side on the 'update' verdict here. > > What do other people think regarding this aspect? > If this is the case, then I say that xonotic should be allowed to be updated. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- - Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ First stop for Perl beginners - http://perl-begin.org/ Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever. — http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mohandas_Gandhi (Disputed) Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
14.03.2012 09:26, Maarten Vanraes kirjoitti: > Op woensdag 14 maart 2012 01:16:23 schreef Juan Luis Baptiste: >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 7:21 AM, Michael Scherer wrote: >>> Le samedi 10 mars 2012 à 10:26 +0100, Thierry Vignaud a écrit : Hi please let in xonotic-0.6.0 It's just a game that impacts nothing else. >>> >>> Niet. >>> >>> That's bugfix or security fixes. >> >> Well I vote to be updated, why ? global game servers are currently >> running 0.6.0, and by personal experience over several years (omg how >> much time wasted on this) these FPS games need to have the same >> client/server version, in some cases different versions won't work at >> all (ie. Urban Terror 3.7 -> 4.0 -> 4.1, Warsow 0.5 -> 0.8 etc). >> >> I just did the test of running a 0.5.0 client on a 0.6.0 server and it >> works, but a big and annoying yellow announce floats across the screen >> remaining you that a new version is available. I also talked with one >> dev over IRC and he told me that there could be issues when running >> different client/server versions. >> >> So just to be on the safe side this new version should be pushed. If >> not then probably we will need to do it later as an update if any >> problems arise. I commit my self to test the new version, I know very >> well how this game works. > > IINM we have some kind of exception regarding games for their client/server > relation regarding updates vs backports? if so, then perhaps we could have > the > same policy wrt updates to version freeze? Yes, we do. Version policy (i.e. no-new-versions-in-updates policy) has an exception for "Software that is version-bound to an online service (games, virus scanners?) and will only work with the latest version." This doesn't 100% fit xonotic, though, as online play doesn't *require* a specific version. However, as it does impede the online playing experience and (AFAIU) online-play is a significant part of xonotic, I'd side on the 'update' verdict here. What do other people think regarding this aspect? -- Anssi Hannula
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Op woensdag 14 maart 2012 01:16:23 schreef Juan Luis Baptiste: > On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 7:21 AM, Michael Scherer wrote: > > Le samedi 10 mars 2012 à 10:26 +0100, Thierry Vignaud a écrit : > >> Hi > >> > >> please let in xonotic-0.6.0 > >> It's just a game that impacts nothing else. > > > > Niet. > > > > That's bugfix or security fixes. > > Well I vote to be updated, why ? global game servers are currently > running 0.6.0, and by personal experience over several years (omg how > much time wasted on this) these FPS games need to have the same > client/server version, in some cases different versions won't work at > all (ie. Urban Terror 3.7 -> 4.0 -> 4.1, Warsow 0.5 -> 0.8 etc). > > I just did the test of running a 0.5.0 client on a 0.6.0 server and it > works, but a big and annoying yellow announce floats across the screen > remaining you that a new version is available. I also talked with one > dev over IRC and he told me that there could be issues when running > different client/server versions. > > So just to be on the safe side this new version should be pushed. If > not then probably we will need to do it later as an update if any > problems arise. I commit my self to test the new version, I know very > well how this game works. IINM we have some kind of exception regarding games for their client/server relation regarding updates vs backports? if so, then perhaps we could have the same policy wrt updates to version freeze?
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 7:21 AM, Michael Scherer wrote: > Le samedi 10 mars 2012 à 10:26 +0100, Thierry Vignaud a écrit : >> Hi >> >> please let in xonotic-0.6.0 >> It's just a game that impacts nothing else. > > Niet. > > That's bugfix or security fixes. > Well I vote to be updated, why ? global game servers are currently running 0.6.0, and by personal experience over several years (omg how much time wasted on this) these FPS games need to have the same client/server version, in some cases different versions won't work at all (ie. Urban Terror 3.7 -> 4.0 -> 4.1, Warsow 0.5 -> 0.8 etc). I just did the test of running a 0.5.0 client on a 0.6.0 server and it works, but a big and annoying yellow announce floats across the screen remaining you that a new version is available. I also talked with one dev over IRC and he told me that there could be issues when running different client/server versions. So just to be on the safe side this new version should be pushed. If not then probably we will need to do it later as an update if any problems arise. I commit my self to test the new version, I know very well how this game works. -- Juancho
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Oops, and I hope you can forgive my replying to self and top-posting. Gmail got me again. :o)
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
My point is not about preventing temper tantrums. I'm sure we've all dealt with clerks, support reps and airline employees who treat everyone like a number and are sticklers for the rules. Perhaps too, we've all gotten a warning instead of a deserved traffic ticket or had a late-payment charge forgiven because of a good prior history. All I'm saying is I have no objection to treating people like people and given all that Thierry does for Mageia, I really think he deserves that. On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Maarten Vanraes wrote: > Op maandag 12 maart 2012 22:02:56 schreef Guillaume Rousse: >> Le 12/03/2012 21:27, Maarten Vanraes a écrit : >> > but we should also try to prevent irritation if it's possible... we're >> > short on contributors and I don't like to decrease motivation... I guess >> > that makes me more lax than others. >> >> OK, I want a new version of cowsay. Right now. Otherwise I'm leaving. >> Far away and forever. > > ok, fine, your point is noted...
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Op maandag 12 maart 2012 22:02:56 schreef Guillaume Rousse: > Le 12/03/2012 21:27, Maarten Vanraes a écrit : > > but we should also try to prevent irritation if it's possible... we're > > short on contributors and I don't like to decrease motivation... I guess > > that makes me more lax than others. > > OK, I want a new version of cowsay. Right now. Otherwise I'm leaving. > Far away and forever. ok, fine, your point is noted...
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Le 12/03/2012 21:27, Maarten Vanraes a écrit : but we should also try to prevent irritation if it's possible... we're short on contributors and I don't like to decrease motivation... I guess that makes me more lax than others. OK, I want a new version of cowsay. Right now. Otherwise I'm leaving. Far away and forever. -- BOFH excuse #188: ..disk or the processor is on fire.
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Op maandag 12 maart 2012 10:56:57 schreef Michael Scherer: > Le lundi 12 mars 2012 à 08:29 +0100, Maarten Vanraes a écrit : > > to get back on topic: perhaps it's not unreasonable to allow a timelimit > > exception, like for instance 3 or 4 days where "i forgot it was freeze or > > didn't make it in time AND it's not likely to mess everything up" kind of > > reason... > > That was already discussed when we discussed the release cycle. And > basically, that would just "let's reduce the freeze by 3/4 days in a > more inefficient way". You just move the bickering at the 3/4 days limit > ( "but it could have bene if I had submitted yesterday" ) instead of the > beggining of the freeze, and you take time to the people who are > submitting, since they get message, have to warn packager about "it > doesn't work" ( as it happened several time last freeze period ). [...] > So next time, maybe we should have a pure good faith based system, [...] > - everybody can do as he see fit I'll take this suggestion as a cynic suggestions and ignore it for now [...] > Patch welcome, but frankly, I think there is a point where the duty of > being informed must be on the packagers. It is rather depressing to > realize that people do not read the announce you send ( and what is more > depressing is the number of those that don't once you start to dig out > ). > > If some people missed the announce, maybe we should ask them "where do > you read information about the project and where don't you read", so we > can identify the communication channel that should be used and those > that shouldn't, as i am not sure that hammering more is the solution. I do understand both your pov, and i do remember that discussion. IMHO: good strict policies are good, and exceptions are exceptions. but we should also try to prevent irritation if it's possible... we're short on contributors and I don't like to decrease motivation... I guess that makes me more lax than others.
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 18:19, R James wrote: > On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Anssi Hannula wrote: >> >> Line would have to be drawn somewhere, though (otherwise it would become >> a mess, I guess), and I'm really not sure right now where it should >> exactly be then >> >> >> This is just my opinion, not based on any previous discussion. >> > > (Also in the spirit of just a humble opinion:) > Given Thierry's innumerable contributions and experience, I would > not object in the slightest to an exception made for him. > > We can be confident that the package will be done correctly plus > it will be a nice, easily-installed addition to Mageia. > > Yes, rules need to exist but flexibility is sometimes warranted in > the interest of good will and showing appreciation. Exceptions for some people make no sense. Anyone can update a package to a version with annoying bugs. Exceptions for some low impact packages make more sense, if everyone agrees there is no impact on other packages (and especially on installer or cd/dvd contents which can not be fixed by updates). I don't mind exceptions for low impact packages were people will want the latest version, but then people handling exceptions will spend their time checking if the exceptions for such packages make sense instead of focusing on fixing more important things for the release.
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Anssi Hannula wrote: > > Line would have to be drawn somewhere, though (otherwise it would become > a mess, I guess), and I'm really not sure right now where it should > exactly be then > > > This is just my opinion, not based on any previous discussion. > (Also in the spirit of just a humble opinion:) Given Thierry's innumerable contributions and experience, I would not object in the slightest to an exception made for him. We can be confident that the package will be done correctly plus it will be a nice, easily-installed addition to Mageia. Yes, rules need to exist but flexibility is sometimes warranted in the interest of good will and showing appreciation.
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
11.03.2012 19:28, Colin Guthrie kirjoitti: > However, I do feel we need to be more generally open to freeze pushes. > The justification in this case, IMO, was sufficient and in line with the > previous interpretations of policy we have expected in the past, but I > completely respect misc if he still disagrees. I also believe we should be more open to pushes for packages like xonotic, i.e. "unimportant" leaf packages, since having the new version for software like xonotic is generally more important than having zero regressions (which are in any case limited to xonotic only, and can be fixed later). Line would have to be drawn somewhere, though (otherwise it would become a mess, I guess), and I'm really not sure right now where it should exactly be then This is just my opinion, not based on any previous discussion. -- Anssi Hannula
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
On Monday 12 March 2012 08:31, zezinho wrote: > As usually people who does agree says nothing And the few of us who do say we agree, seems to drown in the traffic. :-)= -- Johnny A. Solbu PGP key ID: 0xFA687324 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Le lundi 12 mars 2012 à 08:29 +0100, Maarten Vanraes a écrit : > to get back on topic: perhaps it's not unreasonable to allow a timelimit > exception, like for instance 3 or 4 days where "i forgot it was freeze or > didn't make it in time AND it's not likely to mess everything up" kind of > reason... That was already discussed when we discussed the release cycle. And basically, that would just "let's reduce the freeze by 3/4 days in a more inefficient way". You just move the bickering at the 3/4 days limit ( "but it could have bene if I had submitted yesterday" ) instead of the beggining of the freeze, and you take time to the people who are submitting, since they get message, have to warn packager about "it doesn't work" ( as it happened several time last freeze period ). So next time, maybe we should have a pure good faith based system, instead of enforcing it with youri, since every attempt to enforce lead to discussion. This way : - we do not change anything, so no time to invest in too much communication - no time lost by sysadmin to put the freeze, even if that's minor ( except when stuff break ) - everybody can do as he see fit > (about communication: maybe it's more prudent to have a messagebox above > http://pkgsubmit.mageia.org/ telling us about various freezes and upcoming > soon freezes, even though as a packager it's my task to read meeting logs and > keeping myself up2date) Patch welcome, but frankly, I think there is a point where the duty of being informed must be on the packagers. It is rather depressing to realize that people do not read the announce you send ( and what is more depressing is the number of those that don't once you start to dig out ). If some people missed the announce, maybe we should ask them "where do you read information about the project and where don't you read", so we can identify the communication channel that should be used and those that shouldn't, as i am not sure that hammering more is the solution. -- Michael Scherer
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Le dimanche 11 mars 2012 22:25:32, Michael Scherer a écrit : > > > Le samedi 10 mars 2012 à 10:26 +0100, Thierry Vignaud a écrit : > > > > please let in xonotic-0.6.0 > > > > It's just a game that impacts nothing else. > But so far, I think that we are basically and roughly coherent when > compared to the last freeze period. Therefore, I do not see the need to > communicate a change when there was in fact no changes on the side of > the policy. And sorry, I cannot communicate to say that what people > remember do not correspond to what was done. > As usually people who does agree says nothing, maybe I can say I agree the hardness of this freeze. I mean the way it is being kept. While I am happy to say thank you to TV for all his hard work, his unlucky attempt should drive all of us to forget anything but bugs.mageia.org till the release : a distro with lots of software can be killed by very simple bugs, and we have a lot of them concerning packages without maintainers...
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Op maandag 12 maart 2012 07:53:38 schreef David W. Hodgins: [...] > My understanding was that Magea 1 supported updating from Mandriva > 2010.2 + Contrib + PLF-Free. > > There were several updates submitted to qa a few days ago, that are > only available in backports in Mdv 2010.2. [...] IMHO backports could be "supported" under Mageia backports, not in regular media. Keeping in mind our limited resources, nonetheless, several of these bugs which seemed to require workaround upon workaround, should get fixed sooner rather than later, because it seems to be getting more complicated or more discussed (and in generally too much resources being spent on it) i'm thinking of: - backports - noarch linking - bug 2317 - livemedia - or in general what we promise ( or rather to be careful what and how we promise): if we say: "there are no livemedia yet, but we're working on it to get it in the next few weeks" ... some people become angry, but you can also say: "There's a major bug preventing us from making livemedia, but we're working on them" and possibly even updating it when it becomes clear it'll be for the next release into "This beta release doesn't have any livemedia, we're hoping to have the next beta release containing livemedia" Similar with backports: it's been promised this time without timelimit, but people seem to be convinced it'll never make it. 3rd party repositories popping up etc... It does not make us look good. and I'm getting to the point where the resources spent on discussing backports seem to be larger than the eventual losses in resources that would have been due to backports being open. But now of all times, backports shouldn't open, rather in the first week after release of mga2 would be a nice timing. to get back on topic: perhaps it's not unreasonable to allow a timelimit exception, like for instance 3 or 4 days where "i forgot it was freeze or didn't make it in time AND it's not likely to mess everything up" kind of reason... But i think the point is now becoming moot if temporary freeze of Beta2 is in effect... (not sure if it is, but i think i saw something regarding it) (about communication: maybe it's more prudent to have a messagebox above http://pkgsubmit.mageia.org/ telling us about various freezes and upcoming soon freezes, even though as a packager it's my task to read meeting logs and keeping myself up2date)
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 08:55:22 -0400, Manuel Hiebel wrote: Le dimanche 11 mars 2012 à 14:47 +0200, Sander Lepik a écrit : > According to sophie it's not a new package: > http://sophie.zarb.org/rpms/810fca5bd939c8e4a6858a5711c5200f > Yeah, i take some of my words back. But there is another problem - 0.6.0 seems to be in mdv2010.2. So upgrade path from Mandriva is broken. Do we support upgrade from mandriva backport ? I'am not sure. (also maybe we should not look anymore what they are doing... and remember that the desktop support is eol: http://www.mandriva.com/en/support/lifecycle/ ) I meant to raise this topic a few days ago, but got busy with other things. My understanding was that Magea 1 supported updating from Mandriva 2010.2 + Contrib + PLF-Free. There were several updates submitted to qa a few days ago, that are only available in backports in Mdv 2010.2. If we start accepting those under the exceptions rule, that allows packages that were present in Mdv 2010.2 but missing in Mageia 1, I'm very concerned that we could run into a lot more bug 2317 problems, which would be very difficult to avoid. Either we'll have to rewrite our dependency checking scripts to figure out which packages need to be linked from Core Release to Core Updates (not simple), or link everything in Core Release to Core Updates, or change Core Release to be tagged as an update medium, which would have a massive impact on cpu usage for mgaapplet. See https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4814 for example. Opinions? Regards, Dave Hodgins
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Le dimanche 11 mars 2012 à 17:58 +0100, Samuel Verschelde a écrit : > Le dimanche 11 mars 2012 13:21:57, Michael Scherer a écrit : > > Le samedi 10 mars 2012 à 10:26 +0100, Thierry Vignaud a écrit : > > > Hi > > > > > > please let in xonotic-0.6.0 > > > It's just a game that impacts nothing else. > > > > Niet. > > > > That's bugfix or security fixes. > > Communication tip for the future : when such a policy change happens (this is > a policy change, there were more exceptions in the past before package > freeze, > for leaf packages without weird deps and post/pre scripts and little impact), > let's try to highlight it *before*. We asked if people understood what version freeze mean, and people all said yes. http://meetbot.mageia.org/mageia-dev/2012/mageia-dev.2012-02-15-20.13.log.html#l-75 So I assumed that people were aware of what was posted last time : http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.mageia.devel/4015 and that "very good reasons" where basically the same for everybody. It seems there is some misunderstanding, likely coming from another discussion that the one I found. Can people just tell me where they have seen their interpretation of freeze, cause I have read the one I posted twice, I still think it correspond that what i just said. > There was a communication effort to announce the freeze: I read freeze > announce, was present at the last packager meeting. However it didn't struck > me, it all looked like the usual end of release cycle, with their > common-sense > exceptions. > > A message such as "contrarily as what happened in the past" (this is the > important part, highlight a *change*), "there will be no exception even for > leaf non-critical packages, so that you all focus on bugfixes, as we know > that > otherwise you will not fix bugs and continue updating your packages". I took a look at the archives for the last round ( ie mageia 1 ), thanks to evolution. Since people were upset because this exception should have been granted, I assumed that the same type of exception would have been granted in the past numerous times ( I mean, if people didn't remember the mail saying "this would not be granted", that's likely because we granted it several time, enough time to have people totally forget what was posted in the first place ). I found exactly 1 package that not at least saying "that's a bug fix release", "this fix a CVE", "it fix upgrade"., ie all reasons that were announced "we would likely let this pass". It was alienarena on 06/05/2011, and it was pushed by boklm around 2h after the mail was sent. That's the only one I can find that was not corresponding at the criteria we laid out for being a regular exception ( cf url given sooner ), but it was still granted. We trusted boklm as well as others to choose, so he did. But still, if we look at the list given before ( and since no one answered at all and no one complained later, I assumed that everybody agreed, especially since this was based on common sense ), it was said "it would likely not pass". So if there wasn't others ( and I will assume that's the case unless someone show others examples that I could have missed ), we can see that the whole "but it was granted last time" assumption is either based on : - 1 single rpm being a exception that would have been refused and that wasn't ( ie, a weak example ) or : - based on a different "last time" than last year ( and then why did no one complained last year is left as a exercise ) or : - based on different perception of what type of exception were granted last time, perception that doesn't align with the reality of the archives I checked. But so far, I think that we are basically and roughly coherent when compared to the last freeze period. Therefore, I do not see the need to communicate a change when there was in fact no changes on the side of the policy. And sorry, I cannot communicate to say that what people remember do not correspond to what was done. And we can see that as tmb said, the problem is not that granting would disturb the distribution, but that granting once for a minor package would lead to the same type of lengthy and heated discussion as we are having now, but for each packages. The more complex the rules are, the more discussion and the more problem we will have to solve. -- Michael Scherer
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Am 11.03.2012 18:39, schrieb Michael Scherer: Le dimanche 11 mars 2012 à 18:12 +0100, Florian Hubold a écrit : Am 11.03.2012 17:58, schrieb Samuel Verschelde: Le dimanche 11 mars 2012 13:21:57, Michael Scherer a écrit : Le samedi 10 mars 2012 à 10:26 +0100, Thierry Vignaud a écrit : Hi please let in xonotic-0.6.0 It's just a game that impacts nothing else. Niet. That's bugfix or security fixes. Communication tip for the future : when such a policy change happens (this is a policy change, there were more exceptions in the past before package freeze, for leaf packages without weird deps and post/pre scripts and little impact), let's try to highlight it *before*. There was a communication effort to announce the freeze: I read freeze announce, was present at the last packager meeting. However it didn't struck me, it all looked like the usual end of release cycle, with their common-sense exceptions. A message such as "contrarily as what happened in the past" (this is the important part, highlight a *change*), "there will be no exception even for leaf non-critical packages, so that you all focus on bugfixes, as we know that otherwise you will not fix bugs and continue updating your packages". Best regards Samuel I can only chime in with Stormi, in last packager meeting ennael said that new packages would be allowed during the freeze, but we should focus on bug fixes, which is comprehensible. Also misc didn't say anything that new packages are disallowed. As said earlier in the thread, that's not a new package, or it would have been able to go without asking anything. OK, so for clarification: New packages which should probably be "leaf packages" are still allowed? Then probably i've misunderstood or misinterpreted some of the previous comments. Related, as we seem to miss some documentation on the freeze (as https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Freeze is still empty) which could have prevented such a discussion, do you think it's a good idea if i would write one up? Also i've just seen later that Manuel mentioned we already had this package before. Sorry for the noise :-[
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Le dimanche 11 mars 2012 à 18:12 +0100, Florian Hubold a écrit : > Am 11.03.2012 17:58, schrieb Samuel Verschelde: > > Le dimanche 11 mars 2012 13:21:57, Michael Scherer a écrit : > >> Le samedi 10 mars 2012 à 10:26 +0100, Thierry Vignaud a écrit : > >>> Hi > >>> > >>> please let in xonotic-0.6.0 > >>> It's just a game that impacts nothing else. > >> Niet. > >> > >> That's bugfix or security fixes. > > Communication tip for the future : when such a policy change happens (this > > is > > a policy change, there were more exceptions in the past before package > > freeze, > > for leaf packages without weird deps and post/pre scripts and little > > impact), > > let's try to highlight it *before*. > > > > There was a communication effort to announce the freeze: I read freeze > > announce, was present at the last packager meeting. However it didn't struck > > me, it all looked like the usual end of release cycle, with their > > common-sense > > exceptions. > > > > A message such as "contrarily as what happened in the past" (this is the > > important part, highlight a *change*), "there will be no exception even for > > leaf non-critical packages, so that you all focus on bugfixes, as we know > > that > > otherwise you will not fix bugs and continue updating your packages". > > > > Best regards > > > > Samuel > > > I can only chime in with Stormi, in last packager meeting ennael > said that new packages would be allowed during the freeze, > but we should focus on bug fixes, which is comprehensible. > Also misc didn't say anything that new packages are disallowed. As said earlier in the thread, that's not a new package, or it would have been able to go without asking anything. -- Michael Scherer
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
'Twas brillig, and Florian Hubold at 11/03/12 17:12 did gyre and gimble: > Am 11.03.2012 17:58, schrieb Samuel Verschelde: >> Le dimanche 11 mars 2012 13:21:57, Michael Scherer a écrit : >>> Le samedi 10 mars 2012 à 10:26 +0100, Thierry Vignaud a écrit : Hi please let in xonotic-0.6.0 It's just a game that impacts nothing else. >>> Niet. >>> >>> That's bugfix or security fixes. >> Communication tip for the future : when such a policy change happens >> (this is >> a policy change, there were more exceptions in the past before package >> freeze, >> for leaf packages without weird deps and post/pre scripts and little >> impact), >> let's try to highlight it *before*. >> >> There was a communication effort to announce the freeze: I read freeze >> announce, was present at the last packager meeting. However it didn't >> struck >> me, it all looked like the usual end of release cycle, with their >> common-sense >> exceptions. >> >> A message such as "contrarily as what happened in the past" (this is the >> important part, highlight a *change*), "there will be no exception >> even for >> leaf non-critical packages, so that you all focus on bugfixes, as we >> know that >> otherwise you will not fix bugs and continue updating your packages". >> >> Best regards >> >> Samuel >> > I can only chime in with Stormi, in last packager meeting ennael > said that new packages would be allowed during the freeze, > but we should focus on bug fixes, which is comprehensible. > Also misc didn't say anything that new packages are disallowed. > > So when did this change and who changed it? Or is it just that the > reason given for xonotic was not enough? > > I'm just asking in advance, because i've not gotten around to properly > testing qtsixa, which i wanted to add for Mageia 2 and to resolve > https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3362 > Because i didn't want to import it untested, and another problem > is that i can't spare a physical cauldron installation, which made > testing a lot more difficult, it's not in Mageia yet. > > Also what about adding hardware support as e.g. needed for > https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4249 ? > Also disallowed? Without wanting to cause any problems, I think think this particular issue has gotten a little out of hand. Policy is there for a reason, and we all accept those reasons. We also accept that rules are made to be broken and I think it can sometimes be said that strict adherence to policy can often be forgone for reasons of diplomacy and based on risk vs. reward. During the mga1 freeze phase, there were was certainly a more relaxed approach and I don't think it did any harm, rather the opposite. And by "harm" I mean both to the quality of the distro and to the community at large. While I don't personally give two hoots about this package, I suspect (and this is just my guess) that misc would have probably pushed the package if he'd known it would have caused such a blow out, to avoid the general hassle (but the same would not be true if the package had been a more core package). Again this is just my suspicion. However, I do feel we need to be more generally open to freeze pushes. The justification in this case, IMO, was sufficient and in line with the previous interpretations of policy we have expected in the past, but I completely respect misc if he still disagrees. But, please let's all try not get too worked up about this either way. I'm now going away to try and work out how I can word my freeze push request regarding PulseAudio... (only made possible by new kernel) :p Col -- Colin Guthrie colin(at)mageia.org http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/ Open Source: Mageia Contributor http://www.mageia.org/ PulseAudio Hacker http://www.pulseaudio.org/ Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Am 11.03.2012 17:58, schrieb Samuel Verschelde: Le dimanche 11 mars 2012 13:21:57, Michael Scherer a écrit : Le samedi 10 mars 2012 à 10:26 +0100, Thierry Vignaud a écrit : Hi please let in xonotic-0.6.0 It's just a game that impacts nothing else. Niet. That's bugfix or security fixes. Communication tip for the future : when such a policy change happens (this is a policy change, there were more exceptions in the past before package freeze, for leaf packages without weird deps and post/pre scripts and little impact), let's try to highlight it *before*. There was a communication effort to announce the freeze: I read freeze announce, was present at the last packager meeting. However it didn't struck me, it all looked like the usual end of release cycle, with their common-sense exceptions. A message such as "contrarily as what happened in the past" (this is the important part, highlight a *change*), "there will be no exception even for leaf non-critical packages, so that you all focus on bugfixes, as we know that otherwise you will not fix bugs and continue updating your packages". Best regards Samuel I can only chime in with Stormi, in last packager meeting ennael said that new packages would be allowed during the freeze, but we should focus on bug fixes, which is comprehensible. Also misc didn't say anything that new packages are disallowed. So when did this change and who changed it? Or is it just that the reason given for xonotic was not enough? I'm just asking in advance, because i've not gotten around to properly testing qtsixa, which i wanted to add for Mageia 2 and to resolve https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3362 Because i didn't want to import it untested, and another problem is that i can't spare a physical cauldron installation, which made testing a lot more difficult, it's not in Mageia yet. Also what about adding hardware support as e.g. needed for https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4249 ? Also disallowed?
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Le dimanche 11 mars 2012 13:21:57, Michael Scherer a écrit : > Le samedi 10 mars 2012 à 10:26 +0100, Thierry Vignaud a écrit : > > Hi > > > > please let in xonotic-0.6.0 > > It's just a game that impacts nothing else. > > Niet. > > That's bugfix or security fixes. Communication tip for the future : when such a policy change happens (this is a policy change, there were more exceptions in the past before package freeze, for leaf packages without weird deps and post/pre scripts and little impact), let's try to highlight it *before*. There was a communication effort to announce the freeze: I read freeze announce, was present at the last packager meeting. However it didn't struck me, it all looked like the usual end of release cycle, with their common-sense exceptions. A message such as "contrarily as what happened in the past" (this is the important part, highlight a *change*), "there will be no exception even for leaf non-critical packages, so that you all focus on bugfixes, as we know that otherwise you will not fix bugs and continue updating your packages". Best regards Samuel
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Le dimanche 11 mars 2012 à 15:36 +0100, Thierry Vignaud a écrit : > On 11 March 2012 14:45, Michael Scherer wrote: > >> >> It's a new package. How much harm can it do? > >> > > >> > The same as any packages. What did people didn't understand about "focus > >> > on bugfixes" ? > >> > >> Sorry but I'm the one pushing that package and I am ALSO FEELING > >> ALONE FIXING BUGS... > > > > Yes, I have seen that you are the one pushing the package. Did I missed > > something about you ? > > > > And I have seen that you are pushing fixes ( and also non fixes after > > version freeze since it was not properly enforced ) > > > > But I fail to see the relation between this and the push of a game past > > the version freeze. > > This means it's quite rude that people that don't do any fix at all > shouts "focus on bugfixes" to those who are actually doing bug fixes and > also, > AS WAS ALWAYS DONE WHEN EXPLAINED, request some exceptions > to the freeze policy. Doing bug fixes is not some kind pf money to get exceptions. We said that exception should be justified, and "this break nothing at all" is not a justification. And regarding the personal attack on my involvement, I will try to pretend it didn't happen. -- Michael Scherer
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
On 11 March 2012 15:36, Thierry Vignaud wrote: > This means it's quite rude that people that don't do any fix at all shouts > "focus on bugfixes" to those who are actually doing bug fixes and also, > AS WAS ALWAYS DONE WHEN EXPLAINED, request some exceptions > to the freeze policy. > > That's very encouraging :-( That is PLEASE DO FOCUS YOURSELVES ON FIXING BUGS before telling that to other people who are actually doing this
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
On 11 March 2012 14:45, Michael Scherer wrote: >> >> It's a new package. How much harm can it do? >> > >> > The same as any packages. What did people didn't understand about "focus >> > on bugfixes" ? >> >> Sorry but I'm the one pushing that package and I am ALSO FEELING >> ALONE FIXING BUGS... > > Yes, I have seen that you are the one pushing the package. Did I missed > something about you ? > > And I have seen that you are pushing fixes ( and also non fixes after > version freeze since it was not properly enforced ) > > But I fail to see the relation between this and the push of a game past > the version freeze. This means it's quite rude that people that don't do any fix at all shouts "focus on bugfixes" to those who are actually doing bug fixes and also, AS WAS ALWAYS DONE WHEN EXPLAINED, request some exceptions to the freeze policy. That's very encouraging :-(
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Le dimanche 11 mars 2012 à 14:24 +0100, Thierry Vignaud a écrit : > On 11 March 2012 13:54, Michael Scherer wrote: > >> >> please let in xonotic-0.6.0 > >> >> It's just a game that impacts nothing else. > >> > Niet. > >> > > >> > That's bugfix or security fixes. > >> Honestly, WTF?! > >> > >> It's a new package. How much harm can it do? > > > > The same as any packages. What did people didn't understand about "focus > > on bugfixes" ? > > Sorry but I'm the one pushing that package and I am ALSO FEELING > ALONE FIXING BUGS... Yes, I have seen that you are the one pushing the package. Did I missed something about you ? And I have seen that you are pushing fixes ( and also non fixes after version freeze since it was not properly enforced ) But I fail to see the relation between this and the push of a game past the version freeze. -- Michael Scherer
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
On 11 March 2012 13:54, Michael Scherer wrote: >> >> please let in xonotic-0.6.0 >> >> It's just a game that impacts nothing else. >> > Niet. >> > >> > That's bugfix or security fixes. >> Honestly, WTF?! >> >> It's a new package. How much harm can it do? > > The same as any packages. What did people didn't understand about "focus > on bugfixes" ? Sorry but I'm the one pushing that package and I am ALSO FEELING ALONE FIXING BUGS...
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
On Sunday 11 March 2012 13:43, Thomas Backlund wrote: > if we start going letting things slide we get the debate "that > package got in, so why not this..." I agree with Thomas. it's to late. it really is that simple. Deadline for adding new and upgraded packages was march 7. -- Johnny A. Solbu PGP key ID: 0xFA687324 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
On Sunday 11 March 2012 13:47, Sander Lepik wrote: > 0.6.0 seems to be in mdv2010.2 Yes, and it's a Backport. 0.6.0 was released march 8 2012. :-)= Xonotic wasn't included in the 2010.2 release, as xonotic 0.1 wasn't released untill the day after the 2010.2 release. And according to the changelog it was imported into Mandriva september 9, 2011. So the upgrade path from Mandriva seems to be fine, regarding xonotic at least. -- Johnny A. Solbu PGP key ID: 0xFA687324 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
On Mar 11, 2012 12:38 PM, "Oliver Burger" wrote: > > 2012/3/11 Sander Lepik : > > It's a new package. How much harm can it do? I would understand this > > rejection if we would have backports enabled. But we don't. Some point > > release can cause more trouble than this package. This is getting > > ridiculous. > I have to agree with Sander here. In the meeting someone asked if > submitting new packages would still be able and the answer was > something like > "Yes, but we would prefer you to focus on fixing bugs". > Of course focusing on fixing bugs is a good thing, but we are still > almost two months before release and the fact that we don't have > backports (and probably never will :/ ) is a big problem. As far as I know only packages with different version are rejected by your I, not new ones.
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Le dimanche 11 mars 2012 à 14:47 +0200, Sander Lepik a écrit : > > According to sophie it's not a new package: > > http://sophie.zarb.org/rpms/810fca5bd939c8e4a6858a5711c5200f > > > Yeah, i take some of my words back. But there is another problem - > 0.6.0 seems to be in > mdv2010.2. So upgrade path from Mandriva is broken. Do we support upgrade from mandriva backport ? I'am not sure. (also maybe we should not look anymore what they are doing... and remember that the desktop support is eol: http://www.mandriva.com/en/support/lifecycle/ )
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Le dimanche 11 mars 2012 à 14:29 +0200, Sander Lepik a écrit : > 11.03.2012 14:21, Michael Scherer kirjutas: > > Le samedi 10 mars 2012 à 10:26 +0100, Thierry Vignaud a écrit : > >> Hi > >> > >> please let in xonotic-0.6.0 > >> It's just a game that impacts nothing else. > > Niet. > > > > That's bugfix or security fixes. > Honestly, WTF?! > > It's a new package. How much harm can it do? The same as any packages. What did people didn't understand about "focus on bugfixes" ? > I would understand this rejection if we would > have backports enabled. But we don't. Some point release can cause more > trouble than this > package. If by "point release", you mean "version upgrade in a minor version", that's also blocked. If by "point release", you mean "rebuild with spec change", that's much easier to revert and detect, since there is less changes to look at. And that's a part where packagers can realistially check. That's not the case for most tarballs where there is several changes for a new version. Frankly, there is a time where we should say "this is the version we choose for the release". We are not doing a rolling release. So either you agree that there is a time to say "stop" to upgrade, be it on the day of release or before, and think that the time we choosed is not the right time, and in which case, they should clearly tell. Or you want a rolling release, and again, you have to clearly say "I want to have a rolling release" and I will answer "there was some threads in the past" -- Michael Scherer -- Michael Scherer
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Le dimanche 11 mars 2012 à 14:47 +0200, Sander Lepik a écrit : > 11.03.2012 14:42, Manuel Hiebel kirjutas: > > Le dimanche 11 mars 2012 à 14:29 +0200, Sander Lepik a écrit : > >> 11.03.2012 14:21, Michael Scherer kirjutas: > >>> Le samedi 10 mars 2012 à 10:26 +0100, Thierry Vignaud a écrit : > Hi > > please let in xonotic-0.6.0 > It's just a game that impacts nothing else. > >>> Niet. > >>> > >>> That's bugfix or security fixes. > >> Honestly, WTF?! > >> > >> It's a new package. > > According to sophie it's not a new package: > > http://sophie.zarb.org/rpms/810fca5bd939c8e4a6858a5711c5200f > > > Yeah, i take some of my words back. But there is another problem - 0.6.0 > seems to be in > mdv2010.2. So upgrade path from Mandriva is broken. We do not garantee upgrade path from mdv 2010.2 to mga 2 -- Michael Scherer
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
11.03.2012 14:42, Manuel Hiebel kirjutas: Le dimanche 11 mars 2012 à 14:29 +0200, Sander Lepik a écrit : 11.03.2012 14:21, Michael Scherer kirjutas: Le samedi 10 mars 2012 à 10:26 +0100, Thierry Vignaud a écrit : Hi please let in xonotic-0.6.0 It's just a game that impacts nothing else. Niet. That's bugfix or security fixes. Honestly, WTF?! It's a new package. According to sophie it's not a new package: http://sophie.zarb.org/rpms/810fca5bd939c8e4a6858a5711c5200f Yeah, i take some of my words back. But there is another problem - 0.6.0 seems to be in mdv2010.2. So upgrade path from Mandriva is broken. -- Sander
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Sander Lepik skrev 11.3.2012 14:29: 11.03.2012 14:21, Michael Scherer kirjutas: Le samedi 10 mars 2012 à 10:26 +0100, Thierry Vignaud a écrit : Hi please let in xonotic-0.6.0 It's just a game that impacts nothing else. Niet. That's bugfix or security fixes. Honestly, WTF?! It's a new package. How much harm can it do? I would understand this rejection if we would have backports enabled. But we don't. Some point release can cause more trouble than this package. This is getting ridiculous. It's not getting ridiculous. This is _VERSION_FREEZE_. It's normal during distro release process. If it wasn't important enough to import/update before the freeze, it's definately not important enough after. And technically _any_ new package can make a mess up a system with wrong provides/obsoletes/conflicts, broken %pre/%post scripts and so on. And if we start going letting things slide we get the debate "that package got in, so why not this..." So, focus now is not to get new stuff into repos, but testing/fixing bugs reported on bugzilla, and also test upgrades from Mageia 1 and so on. We have only ~1,5 months before the planned Mageia 2 release. -- Thomas
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Le dimanche 11 mars 2012 à 14:29 +0200, Sander Lepik a écrit : > 11.03.2012 14:21, Michael Scherer kirjutas: > > Le samedi 10 mars 2012 à 10:26 +0100, Thierry Vignaud a écrit : > >> Hi > >> > >> please let in xonotic-0.6.0 > >> It's just a game that impacts nothing else. > > Niet. > > > > That's bugfix or security fixes. > Honestly, WTF?! > > It's a new package. According to sophie it's not a new package: http://sophie.zarb.org/rpms/810fca5bd939c8e4a6858a5711c5200f
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
2012/3/11 Sander Lepik : > It's a new package. How much harm can it do? I would understand this > rejection if we would have backports enabled. But we don't. Some point > release can cause more trouble than this package. This is getting > ridiculous. I have to agree with Sander here. In the meeting someone asked if submitting new packages would still be able and the answer was something like "Yes, but we would prefer you to focus on fixing bugs". Of course focusing on fixing bugs is a good thing, but we are still almost two months before release and the fact that we don't have backports (and probably never will :/ ) is a big problem. Oliver
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
11.03.2012 14:21, Michael Scherer kirjutas: Le samedi 10 mars 2012 à 10:26 +0100, Thierry Vignaud a écrit : Hi please let in xonotic-0.6.0 It's just a game that impacts nothing else. Niet. That's bugfix or security fixes. Honestly, WTF?! It's a new package. How much harm can it do? I would understand this rejection if we would have backports enabled. But we don't. Some point release can cause more trouble than this package. This is getting ridiculous. -- Sander
Re: [Mageia-dev] [Freeze] please let in xonotic
Le samedi 10 mars 2012 à 10:26 +0100, Thierry Vignaud a écrit : > Hi > > please let in xonotic-0.6.0 > It's just a game that impacts nothing else. Niet. That's bugfix or security fixes. -- Michael Scherer
