Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release sauerbraten-2010_07_28-1.mga2

[EatDirt]

On 05/12/11 12:53, Thomas Backlund wrote:


NO.

Our policy is that core _must_ be selfcontained.



Hi there,

what's about quake2 which is currently on the core and cannot work 
without pak files?


Cheers,
Chris.

Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release sauerbraten-2010_07_28-1.mga2

[Claire Robinson]

On 09/12/11 06:44, Kamil Rytarowski wrote:

W dniu 09.12.2011 07:41, Kamil Rytarowski pisze:

W dniu 05.12.2011 12:53, Thomas Backlund pisze:


Our policy is that core _must_ be selfcontained.

So what to do with (game) emulators?
I just checked that ScummVM is in core and one game is in nonfree.

And in Cauldron there are 2 games:
beneath-a-steel-sky-1.2-2.mga2.nonfree.noarch.rpm - A adventure game
using scummvm
flight-of-the-amazon-queen-1-2.mga2.nonfree.noarch.rpm - A adventure
game using scummvm



Scummvm doesn't require either of the games as a dependency. It is a 
frontend to run games from. Games can be downloaded or come from our 
nonfree repo. They are listed in Scummvm and you can select which one to 
play, it is self contained in that way.


Claire

Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release sauerbraten-2010_07_28-1.mga2

[Kamil Rytarowski]

W dniu 09.12.2011 07:41, Kamil Rytarowski pisze:

W dniu 05.12.2011 12:53, Thomas Backlund pisze:


Our policy is that core _must_ be selfcontained.

So what to do with (game) emulators?
I just checked that ScummVM is in core and one game is in nonfree.

And in Cauldron there are 2 games:
beneath-a-steel-sky-1.2-2.mga2.nonfree.noarch.rpm - A adventure 
game using scummvm
flight-of-the-amazon-queen-1-2.mga2.nonfree.noarch.rpm - A 
adventure game using scummvm

Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release sauerbraten-2010_07_28-1.mga2

[Kamil Rytarowski]

W dniu 05.12.2011 12:53, Thomas Backlund pisze:

05.12.2011 13:12, Maarten Vanraes skrev:

Op maandag 05 december 2011 11:54:47 schreef Samuel Verschelde:

Le lundi 5 décembre 2011 11:44:19, Maarten Vanraes a écrit :

Op maandag 05 december 2011 11:10:00 schreef Samuel Verschelde:

Le mardi 15 novembre 2011 14:23:00, Johnny A. Solbu a écrit :

On Tuesday 15 November 2011 11:26, Samuel Verschelde wrote:

I don't know if it's still true, but according to the fedora games
SIG group sauerbraten will not be packaged there because there are
(were?) "Various non commercial use clauses in the data."


According to their homepage, the data (they call it media) is not
Free Software. http://sauerbraten.org/README.html#license


So it must be removed from core and submitted to non-free.

Samuel


so the "data" subpackage can be moved to nonfree?


The engine package too, because we can't have a package in core that
depends on nonfree.


can't we?



NO.

Our policy is that core _must_ be selfcontained.

So what to do with (game) emulators?
I just checked that ScummVM is in core and one game is in nonfree.



theorethically, people could make another data packages that is free? 
no? i

mean, if the engine is free, it doesn't really make sense to make it
nonfree... ?



Then _if_ someone actually make a free data package, we can do the split

--
Thomas

Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release sauerbraten-2010_07_28-1.mga2

[Juan Luis Baptiste]

On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 8:58 AM, Oliver Burger  wrote:
>> otoh, if it comes to that, you can let the user get their "media"
>> themselves, and still package the engine only. (it's what i do for eduke32)
>
> I just see another version of sauerbraten was submitted some hours ago and the
> changelog doesn't say anything about cleaned up media.
>
> juancho, whoever you are: Could you comment?
>

Oops, I missed this thread from the beginning :S

I imported the package because looking at
http://pkgs.org/search/?keyword=sauerbraten, I saw the game is in
Arch, Debian, Fedora, SuSE and Ubuntu repositories, but I didn't
notice that in the case of Fedora is in a third-party repo called
"Russian Fedora Nonfree", but in the case of Debian is in their
contrib repo, so I thought that if it made it into Debian then there's
no problem having it here too. But now looking more closely, in
contrib is the engine and in non-free is the data :(

Please remove it or move it to non-free, I'm sorry I didn't check this deeper :(

Also we could install it in the same way I'm preparing other games
based on ioquake3 engine that have non-free data, by including
ioquake3 engine in core/release and autodownloading game data at first
run:

https://mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/2011-November/009862.html


-- 
Juancho

Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release sauerbraten-2010_07_28-1.mga2

[Oliver Burger]

Am Montag, 5. Dezember 2011, 16:42:06 schrieb Maarten Vanraes:
> Op maandag 05 december 2011 16:01:14 schreef Samuel Verschelde:
> > So unless someone digs into the media files, looks at the licences,
> > removes media files with unclear or too restrictive licenses (and that
> > the game still works after that), then we must drop it. Otherwise it
> > must go to non-free.
> > 
> > Best regards
> > 
> > Samuel Verschelde
> 
> you have a point there...
> 
> otoh, if it comes to that, you can let the user get their "media"
> themselves, and still package the engine only. (it's what i do for eduke32)

I just see another version of sauerbraten was submitted some hours ago and the 
changelog doesn't say anything about cleaned up media.

juancho, whoever you are: Could you comment?

Oliver

Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release sauerbraten-2010_07_28-1.mga2

[Maarten Vanraes]

Op maandag 05 december 2011 16:01:14 schreef Samuel Verschelde:
> Le lundi 5 décembre 2011 11:10:00, Samuel Verschelde a écrit :
> > Le mardi 15 novembre 2011 14:23:00, Johnny A. Solbu a écrit :
> > > On Tuesday 15 November 2011 11:26, Samuel Verschelde wrote:
> > > > I don't know if it's still true, but according to the fedora games
> > > > SIG group sauerbraten will not be packaged there because there are
> > > > (were?) "Various non commercial use clauses in the data."
> > > 
> > > According to their homepage, the data (they call it media) is not Free
> > > Software. http://sauerbraten.org/README.html#license
> > 
> > So it must be removed from core and submitted to non-free.
> 
> In fact I'm even not sure we can distribute it at all, for the same reasons
> as Fedora's:
> - media have various licenses, depending on the contributor (lots of them)
> - according to the above readme, some media may even have no license at all
> - according to Fedora, some of those licenses restrict commercial use, and
> our policy does not allow non-free software with redistribution
> restrictions.
> 
> So unless someone digs into the media files, looks at the licences, removes
> media files with unclear or too restrictive licenses (and that the game
> still works after that), then we must drop it. Otherwise it must go to
> non-free.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Samuel Verschelde

you have a point there...

otoh, if it comes to that, you can let the user get their "media" themselves, 
and still package the engine only. (it's what i do for eduke32)

Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release sauerbraten-2010_07_28-1.mga2

[Samuel Verschelde]

Le lundi 5 décembre 2011 11:10:00, Samuel Verschelde a écrit :
> Le mardi 15 novembre 2011 14:23:00, Johnny A. Solbu a écrit :
> > On Tuesday 15 November 2011 11:26, Samuel Verschelde wrote:
> > > I don't know if it's still true, but according to the fedora games SIG
> > > group sauerbraten will not be packaged there because there are (were?)
> > > "Various non commercial use clauses in the data."
> > 
> > According to their homepage, the data (they call it media) is not Free
> > Software. http://sauerbraten.org/README.html#license
> 
> So it must be removed from core and submitted to non-free.
> 

In fact I'm even not sure we can distribute it at all, for the same reasons as 
Fedora's:
- media have various licenses, depending on the contributor (lots of them)
- according to the above readme, some media may even have no license at all
- according to Fedora, some of those licenses restrict commercial use, and our 
policy does not allow non-free software with redistribution restrictions.

So unless someone digs into the media files, looks at the licences, removes 
media files with unclear or too restrictive licenses (and that the game still 
works after that), then we must drop it. Otherwise it must go to non-free.

Best regards

Samuel Verschelde

Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release sauerbraten-2010_07_28-1.mga2

[Thomas Backlund]

05.12.2011 13:12, Maarten Vanraes skrev:

Op maandag 05 december 2011 11:54:47 schreef Samuel Verschelde:

Le lundi 5 décembre 2011 11:44:19, Maarten Vanraes a écrit :

Op maandag 05 december 2011 11:10:00 schreef Samuel Verschelde:

Le mardi 15 novembre 2011 14:23:00, Johnny A. Solbu a écrit :

On Tuesday 15 November 2011 11:26, Samuel Verschelde wrote:

I don't know if it's still true, but according to the fedora games
SIG group sauerbraten will not be packaged there because there are
(were?) "Various non commercial use clauses in the data."


According to their homepage, the data (they call it media) is not
Free Software. http://sauerbraten.org/README.html#license


So it must be removed from core and submitted to non-free.

Samuel


so the "data" subpackage can be moved to nonfree?


The engine package too, because we can't have a package in core that
depends on nonfree.


can't we?



NO.

Our policy is that core _must_ be selfcontained.



theorethically, people could make another data packages that is free? no? i
mean, if the engine is free, it doesn't really make sense to make it
nonfree... ?



Then _if_ someone actually make a free data package, we can do the split

--
Thomas

Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release sauerbraten-2010_07_28-1.mga2

[Maarten Vanraes]

Op maandag 05 december 2011 12:33:28 schreef Samuel Verschelde:
> Le lundi 5 décembre 2011 12:21:42, Maarten Vanraes a écrit :
> > Op maandag 05 december 2011 12:15:11 schreef zezinho:
> > > Le lundi 5 décembre 2011 12:12:18, Maarten Vanraes a écrit :
> > > > theorethically, people could make another data packages that is free?
> > > > no? i mean, if the engine is free, it doesn't really make sense to
> > > > make it nonfree... ?
> > > 
> > > Yes, but to work for now, the engine package requires the non-free
> > > source. If a user has disabled non-free, he will get an error.
> > 
> > i don't know if this is a bad idea: iirc the error is something like:
> > "can't find data package" or something... imho you can suggest it and put
> > a README.urpmi saying you'll need nonfree data...
> > 
> > but perhaps this is a discussion more suited in another place...
> 
> It someone really wants the engine to build its own data (which I doubt),
> they can still download from the upstream website, so for the vast
> majority of users (if not 100%!) the engine will be of no use without the
> data.

idea-ologically speaking i don't really agree, ( if it's free, it's free, not 
nonfree; even if it's able to use other nonfree parts), but practically, i 
can't say anything about this...

Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release sauerbraten-2010_07_28-1.mga2

[Samuel Verschelde]

Le lundi 5 décembre 2011 12:21:42, Maarten Vanraes a écrit :
> Op maandag 05 december 2011 12:15:11 schreef zezinho:
> > Le lundi 5 décembre 2011 12:12:18, Maarten Vanraes a écrit :
> > > theorethically, people could make another data packages that is free?
> > > no? i mean, if the engine is free, it doesn't really make sense to
> > > make it nonfree... ?
> > 
> > Yes, but to work for now, the engine package requires the non-free
> > source. If a user has disabled non-free, he will get an error.
> 
> i don't know if this is a bad idea: iirc the error is something like:
> "can't find data package" or something... imho you can suggest it and put
> a README.urpmi saying you'll need nonfree data...
> 
> but perhaps this is a discussion more suited in another place...

It someone really wants the engine to build its own data (which I doubt), they 
can still download from the upstream website, so for the vast majority of 
users (if not 100%!) the engine will be of no use without the data. 

Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release sauerbraten-2010_07_28-1.mga2

[Maarten Vanraes]

Op maandag 05 december 2011 12:15:11 schreef zezinho:
> Le lundi 5 décembre 2011 12:12:18, Maarten Vanraes a écrit :
> > theorethically, people could make another data packages that is free? no?
> > i mean, if the engine is free, it doesn't really make sense to make it
> > nonfree... ?
> 
> Yes, but to work for now, the engine package requires the non-free source.
> If a user has disabled non-free, he will get an error.

i don't know if this is a bad idea: iirc the error is something like: "can't 
find data package" or something... imho you can suggest it and put a 
README.urpmi saying you'll need nonfree data...

but perhaps this is a discussion more suited in another place...

Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release sauerbraten-2010_07_28-1.mga2

[zezinho]

Le lundi 5 décembre 2011 12:12:18, Maarten Vanraes a écrit :
> theorethically, people could make another data packages that is free? no? i
> mean, if the engine is free, it doesn't really make sense to make it
> nonfree... ?

Yes, but to work for now, the engine package requires the non-free source. If 
a user has disabled non-free, he will get an error.

Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release sauerbraten-2010_07_28-1.mga2

[Maarten Vanraes]

Op maandag 05 december 2011 11:54:47 schreef Samuel Verschelde:
> Le lundi 5 décembre 2011 11:44:19, Maarten Vanraes a écrit :
> > Op maandag 05 december 2011 11:10:00 schreef Samuel Verschelde:
> > > Le mardi 15 novembre 2011 14:23:00, Johnny A. Solbu a écrit :
> > > > On Tuesday 15 November 2011 11:26, Samuel Verschelde wrote:
> > > > > I don't know if it's still true, but according to the fedora games
> > > > > SIG group sauerbraten will not be packaged there because there are
> > > > > (were?) "Various non commercial use clauses in the data."
> > > > 
> > > > According to their homepage, the data (they call it media) is not
> > > > Free Software. http://sauerbraten.org/README.html#license
> > > 
> > > So it must be removed from core and submitted to non-free.
> > > 
> > > Samuel
> > 
> > so the "data" subpackage can be moved to nonfree?
> 
> The engine package too, because we can't have a package in core that
> depends on nonfree.

can't we?

theorethically, people could make another data packages that is free? no? i 
mean, if the engine is free, it doesn't really make sense to make it 
nonfree... ?

Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release sauerbraten-2010_07_28-1.mga2

[Samuel Verschelde]

Le lundi 5 décembre 2011 11:44:19, Maarten Vanraes a écrit :
> Op maandag 05 december 2011 11:10:00 schreef Samuel Verschelde:
> > Le mardi 15 novembre 2011 14:23:00, Johnny A. Solbu a écrit :
> > > On Tuesday 15 November 2011 11:26, Samuel Verschelde wrote:
> > > > I don't know if it's still true, but according to the fedora games
> > > > SIG group sauerbraten will not be packaged there because there are
> > > > (were?) "Various non commercial use clauses in the data."
> > > 
> > > According to their homepage, the data (they call it media) is not Free
> > > Software. http://sauerbraten.org/README.html#license
> > 
> > So it must be removed from core and submitted to non-free.
> > 
> > Samuel
> 
> so the "data" subpackage can be moved to nonfree?

The engine package too, because we can't have a package in core that depends 
on nonfree.

Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release sauerbraten-2010_07_28-1.mga2

[Maarten Vanraes]

Op maandag 05 december 2011 11:10:00 schreef Samuel Verschelde:
> Le mardi 15 novembre 2011 14:23:00, Johnny A. Solbu a écrit :
> > On Tuesday 15 November 2011 11:26, Samuel Verschelde wrote:
> > > I don't know if it's still true, but according to the fedora games SIG
> > > group sauerbraten will not be packaged there because there are (were?)
> > > "Various non commercial use clauses in the data."
> > 
> > According to their homepage, the data (they call it media) is not Free
> > Software. http://sauerbraten.org/README.html#license
> 
> So it must be removed from core and submitted to non-free.
> 
> Samuel

so the "data" subpackage can be moved to nonfree?

Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release sauerbraten-2010_07_28-1.mga2

[Samuel Verschelde]

Le mardi 15 novembre 2011 14:23:00, Johnny A. Solbu a écrit :
> On Tuesday 15 November 2011 11:26, Samuel Verschelde wrote:
> > I don't know if it's still true, but according to the fedora games SIG
> > group sauerbraten will not be packaged there because there are (were?)
> > "Various non commercial use clauses in the data."
> 
> According to their homepage, the data (they call it media) is not Free
> Software. http://sauerbraten.org/README.html#license

So it must be removed from core and submitted to non-free.

Samuel

Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release sauerbraten-2010_07_28-1.mga2

[Johnny A. Solbu]

On Tuesday 15 November 2011 11:26, Samuel Verschelde wrote:
> I don't know if it's still true, but according to the fedora games SIG group 
> sauerbraten will not be packaged there because there are (were?) "Various non 
> commercial use clauses in the data."

According to their homepage, the data (they call it media) is not Free Software.
http://sauerbraten.org/README.html#license

-- 
Johnny A. Solbu
PGP key ID: 0xFA687324


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Re: [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release sauerbraten-2010_07_28-1.mga2

[Samuel Verschelde]

Le lundi 14 novembre 2011 20:08:27, Mageia Team a écrit :
> Name: sauerbraten  Relocations: (not relocatable)
> Version : 2010_07_28Vendor: Mageia.Org
> Release : 1.mga2Build Date: Mon Nov 14 19:56:29
> 2011 Install Date: (not installed)   Build Host: =
> Group   : Games/Arcade  Source RPM: (none)
> Size: 464655510License: zlib/libpng License
> Signature   : (none)
> Packager: Mageia Team 
> URL : http://sauerbraten.org/
> Summary : A free multi-player/single-player first person shooter game
> Description :
> Cube 2: Sauerbraten is a free multi-player/single-player first person
> shooter, built as a major redesign of the Cube FPS.
> 
> Much like the original Cube, the aim of this game is not necessarily to
> produce the most features & eye-candy possible, but rather to allow
> map/geometry editing to be done dynamically in-game, to create fun
> game-play and an elegant engine.
> 
> juancho  2010_07_28-1.mga2:
> + Revision: 167585
> - imported package sauerbraten

I don't know if it's still true, but according to the fedora games SIG group 
sauerbraten will not be packaged there because there are (were?) "Various non 
commercial use clauses in the data."

Is still issue not true anymore ?

Samuel