Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On 27 March 2011 23:02, Olivier Blin mag...@blino.org wrote: nicolas vigier bo...@mars-attacks.org writes: And do you have any objective compelling reason to include qt3-devel, other than an arbitrary reason based on personal preferences ? For the same reason that you added Qt3: LSB If we want to be LSB compliant, it seems reasonable to provide the tools to build LSB-compliant packages. And also for qcad. If you think Qt3 is not maintained and should not be supported, then just drop the package... I see no reason for having half of the package. -- Olivier Blin - blino IIRC, stewbintn said qt3 dep will/is planned to be dropped from LSB upstream. And just so that I make myself clearer, from my POV this thread is not about adding, half-adding or half-removing or throwing qt3-devel out the window... IMHO this is about whether or not to add Trinity to the Mageia repos, that's the more important issue. Given how much a sticky situation mdv was in with KDE4 in main and KDE3 in contrib that doesn't look like an ideal situation for Mageia (IMHO). (Also in one of the posts in this thread, someone said Trinity is planning port KDE3 apps to Qt4, and here's me thinking that the porting-of-kde3-apps-to-Qt4 has already happened in a project called KDE4 that made its first initial release on the 11th of January 2008, about 3 years ago, c.f. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDE_Software_Compilation_4) -- Ahmad Samir
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Romain d'Alverny a écrit : On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 11:38, Tux99tux99-...@uridium.org wrote: Also is there an official rule somewhere that specifies: because we don't want to have software built on a deprecated library in the repository or is this simply an arbitrary rule that restricts freedoms of users and other packagers? Nothing is always written down on paper. Saying it's arbitrary because it comes out of packagers' experience is a tad extreme. Saying that restricts freedoms of users is clearly excessive here. Again, it's not as if it was a closed product: users can open the box and package stuff too (ah yes, it's not dead obvious to do so, but that's something we can aim to improve in the coming years). What will come out of Mageia, in June, won't satisfy everyone. Choices will have been done. A choice is arbitrary, always. It always says no to something. Implying that this would restrict freedoms of users would be laughable at best, offensive at worst, especially since this is an open source project. That's not to say that people will just have to help themselves, we expect to make something cool and useful, but we're not going to say yes! to everything and everyone either. In the early days a 'contrib' repo was suggested for not officially supported packages (I was for that idea too), this would be a good situation where a 'contrib' repo would solve this matter for everyone. Please open a bug for that if you think it's worth discussing it again. Romain Isn't there a repo just for testing packages ? (Maybe people or software ?) Maybe if they use that they'll feel a little less demotivated. And maybe once their project is stable, qt3-devel could be considered just for building their package, until they switch to qt4 ? Just some ideas ... -- André
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Ok, can we get back on topic? Is there any compelling reason why we cannot reenable qt3-devel in the qt3 source package that is ALREADY part of Mageia? If not then I want to reenable it. -- Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Tux99 tux99-...@uridium.org wrote: Ok, can we get back on topic? Is there any compelling reason why we cannot reenable qt3-devel in the qt3 source package that is ALREADY part of Mageia? If not then I want to reenable it. Work on TDE on your side first, we won't reenable this old, deprecated, unmaintened package is nothing really need it. Reenable it locally for you, do all your work on TDE and then when you will have fullfilled and pre required we will be able to start to discuss about TDE.
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Hi, QT4 is released since 2005, about... 6 years ? So, why is it usefull to maintain a package that becomes depreciated ? Imho, Mageia had better to wait for a trinity-qt4-desktop... ++ yg
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Quote: yves wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 09:42 Hi, QT4 is released since 2005, about... 6 years ? So, why is it usefull to maintain a package that becomes depreciated ? You are missing the point. QT3 is already part of Mageia and it wasn't me who added it. All I'm asking is if there is any compelling reason not to enable qt3-devel in the existing qt3 source package that is part of Mageia. If there isn't any COMPELLING reason, then qt3-devel should be reenabled as long as someone wishes it. What everyone here seems to forget is that a community distro should be first and foremost about FREEDOM. Freedom to let others enjoy their preferred software, not ARTIFICIAL RESTRICTIONS imposed by personal preferences or unnecessarily restrictive ARBITRARY RULES made up along the way by a few of the core members. -- Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Am Freitag 25 März 2011, 10:09:57 schrieb Tux99: What everyone here seems to forget is that a community distro should be first and foremost about FREEDOM. Freedom to let others enjoy their preferred software, not ARTIFICIAL RESTRICTIONS imposed by personal preferences or unnecessarily restrictive ARBITRARY RULES made up along the way by a few of the core members. Sorry but I can't let that stand as it is. A community distro is first and formost about community. Every time one of your ideas, suggestions, questions is answered by anyone with a no you begin to blame a few of the core members, no matter how many people said no and who they were. You just have to accept that in a community project like mageia there is a decission structure ( see out gouvernance model at http://www.mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=org). So there isn't a secret inner circle of dictators who tell the other what to do and what not to do, it's an open structure in which everyone can participate. But if the majority of people take a decision, you just have to accept it. If anyone just does what he thinks is best, we won't have a community project, we will have anarchy. Perhaps you should consider that and stop writing unfounded accusations in capital letters, like you did here. Just my 2 cents... Oliver
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 10:09, Tux99 tux99-...@uridium.org wrote: You are missing the point. QT3 is already part of Mageia and it wasn't me who added it. All I'm asking is if there is any compelling reason not to enable qt3-devel in the existing qt3 source package that is part of Mageia. Then ask the qt3 maintainer - and as long as you don't expect to give a hand in this maintaince, live by her/his answer (if it's only about qt3). And if you're not satisfied with the recommandations/answers you got from there, just push the topic as a clear question to a next coming Council meeting to decide on this and you'll see (but it's likely the Council will stand by the maintainer recommandation, unless there's really something big at stake on the contrary). If there isn't any COMPELLING reason, then qt3-devel should be reenabled as long as someone wishes it. If it's deprecated stuff, is there any compeling reason to reenable a devel package of it. And if someone wishes it back, and the maintainers thinks it's not worth it (too old, deprecated, unstable, complex, unclear, not the plan), the maintainer has the hand (so one can become the maintainer if it's really needed for her). What everyone here seems to forget is that a community distro should be first and foremost about FREEDOM. Freedom to let others enjoy their preferred software, not ARTIFICIAL RESTRICTIONS imposed by personal preferences or unnecessarily restrictive ARBITRARY RULES made up along the way by a few of the core members. Wait. What you seem to forget is that this is not only about rights but too about duties. The freedom above comes from people that take their time to craft and package things, so they are verily in their right and duty to make choices - documented, discussed, agreed. And it's not because just one or two people argue and argue the contrary that the maintainer should ... obey. See above posts, we've been several to suggest you a more practical path for everyone. That choices made here in this project do/will not satisfy everyone is plain obvious. Those choices don't prevent one from reverting them on ones end, demonstrate they are worth it in the project main line, and have them integrated. Romain
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Quote: Oliver Burger wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 10:21 A community distro is first and formost about community. Every time one of your ideas, suggestions, questions is answered by anyone with a no you begin to blame a few of the core members, no matter how many people said no and who they were. You completely missed the point. -- Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Quote: xi wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 10:32 As always, please don't drop too fast the packages that you find useless. There are still some users like me who may use QT3. I still use some not so common applications (eg tools for electronic) which needs QT3 and it is always much more convenient to simply do a urpmi libqt3-devel than downloading and compiling qt3 ... especially if libqt3 is already included in Mageia ! Exactly my point, thanks Xavier. This is about not restricting other people's freedoms. -- Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 10:37, Tux99 tux99-...@uridium.org wrote: Quote: rdalverny wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 10:30 Wait. What you seem to forget is that this is not only about rights but too about duties. The freedom above comes from people that take their time to craft and package things, so they are verily in their right and duty to make choices - documented, discussed, agreed. And it's not because just one or two people argue and argue the contrary that the maintainer should ... obey. As a general principle in a community that values freedom anything that doesn't affect others negatively shouldn't be arbitrarily restricted. You can't force a maintainer to do something you want and that she judges not right for her set of packages. At best you can ask a community (council) decision about that, and that may lead to you (or someone else) taking the maintainance of the said package. If you can't work here by that, or if you are not happy with how things go here, you are free to discuss this openly with members of the council or of the board to sort it out. Here was only a discussion where you get overly alarmed without any necessity when people start to answer their views contrary to your plans. Nowhere was a decision to block you. If you wanted a consensus, you've seen in this thread what it was; that still doesn't block you from doing/pushing your changes as long as they don't break anything. If you wanted a decision, you'd have to formally ask for that the packagers team, or the council, or the board: that was not done. So what are you complaining about? Also I never asked anyone else to do anything, I said I would reenable qt3-devel unless there is a COMPELLING (i.e. blocking) reason not to do so. So why all the fuss? Take the maintainance of the package, make your changes, submit it and here you are. romain
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On Fri, 25 Mar 2011, Tux99 wrote: Quote: rdalverny wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 10:30 Wait. What you seem to forget is that this is not only about rights but too about duties. The freedom above comes from people that take their time to craft and package things, so they are verily in their right and duty to make choices - documented, discussed, agreed. And it's not because just one or two people argue and argue the contrary that the maintainer should ... obey. As a general principle in a community that values freedom anything that doesn't affect others negatively shouldn't be arbitrarily restricted. Also I never asked anyone else to do anything, I said I would reenable qt3-devel unless there is a COMPELLING (i.e. blocking) reason not to do so. The COMPELLING reason has already been said. It's because we don't want to have software built on a deprecated library in the repository. The only reason that we keep the library and only removed the devel package is that some external LSB programs could use it, so we need it to be compatible with LSB.
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Quote: rdalverny wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 10:53 You can't force a maintainer to do something you want and that she judges not right for her set of packages. We seem to be having a communication issue. Where did I force a maintainer to do anything? I asked if there is any COMPELLING reason for me not to reenable qt3-devel. If there isn't, then of course I will reenable it. It wasn't me who then started a long off-topic discussion about imagined or otherwise risks of TDE. If you can't work here by that, or if you are not happy with how things go here, you are free to discuss this openly with members of the council or of the board to sort it out. Is there a procedure for that somewhere? I would think such discussions are supposed to happen on the MLs (rather than in private) and given that board/council members posted in this thread I would assume that this discussion is happening here. Are you saying that the members of the council that posted here in this thread would give a different answer if I contacted them formally (how?) as members of the council? TBH I didn't even want any grand discussion, to repeat myself I was just trying to find out if there is anything blocking the reenabling of qt3-devel. (I hope this point is finally clear enough by now) So why all the fuss? Take the maintainance of the package, make your changes, submit it and here you are. If you re-read the thread you will find that I didn't start the fuss, in fact it was started by people expressing fears about TDE and some board/council members putting preemptive vetos on TDE. I have no problem co-maintaining the package (with regards to the devel side of it) but I'm not aware of any formal procedure to take maintenance of a package. Is there such a procedure formalized somewhere? -- Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Quote: nicolas vigier wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 11:50 Having a qt3-devel packages does not automatically imply having packages based on it in the official repos. Why do you want to have a qt3-devel package on the official repos, if it's not to have other packages based on it ? Why do you NOT want to have it in the repo? Does it affect you if it's in the repo? Did you read Xavier's post? Nothing prevent you from building the package on your computer if you want it. But we don't want it on the repository for the reasons already explained ... I have only seen arbitrary reasons based on personal preferences, not an objective compelling reason. -- Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 11:33, Tux99 tux99-...@uridium.org wrote: Quote: rdalverny wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 10:53 If you can't work here by that, or if you are not happy with how things go here, you are free to discuss this openly with members of the council or of the board to sort it out. Is there a procedure for that somewhere? I would think such discussions are supposed to happen on the MLs (rather than in private) and given that board/council members posted in this thread I would assume that this discussion is happening here. That's still a discussion, where views and directions are given. No strict decision. Because I'm a board member does not mean that everything I say in any discussion is a de-facto board view/decision (thankfully). It can hint about what my views are and how I would express them in a board meeting; but it doesn't mean that this will necessarily be what I'll vote for either. Are you saying that the members of the council that posted here in this thread would give a different answer if I contacted them formally (how?) as members of the council? Not necessarily, but it can happen. As a reminder: - council meeting/decisions are made by team representatives, that express their team's views; - board meeting/decisions are made by board members, that express their own views, with consideration given to the council (hence teams) and community views at large + project objectives means. That does not prevent individual members of each, out of these instances, to express their own views, without these having the force of a rule at once (again, thankfully). I have no problem co-maintaining the package (with regards to the devel side of it) but I'm not aware of any formal procedure to take maintenance of a package. Is there such a procedure formalized somewhere? See that with your mentor. Romain
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Quote: rdalverny wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 11:56 A choice is arbitrary, always. It always says no to something. Implying that this would restrict freedoms of users would be laughable at best, offensive at worst, especially since this is an open source project. You seem to be confusing different concepts here, just because a project is based on open source software that doesn't automatically guarantee that the community based on it is a community that values freedom. My concerns here are exactly because I'm getting the feeling that freedom is being unnecessarily restricted in Mageia. And no a choice is definitely not always arbitrary. Choices can be forced by unsurmountable limitations or technical incompatibilities or they can be arbitrary (i.e. not objectively necessary). In the early days a 'contrib' repo was suggested for not officially supported packages (I was for that idea too), this would be a good situation where a 'contrib' repo would solve this matter for everyone. Please open a bug for that if you think it's worth discussing it again. Is that now the procedure for this? I would also appreciate it, if you could clarify the procedures with regards to the council I asked about in my last reply to you. -- Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On Fri, 25 Mar 2011, Tux99 wrote: Quote: nicolas vigier wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 12:08 Because we want to be sure that nothing is built on this library. So you are arbitrarily making life harder to people like Xavier and myself. And you want to arbitrarily make life a lot harder to people who want to make sure the distribution is not based on obsolete and unmaintained software. On the other hand, rebuilding a qt3 package yourself takes a few minutes. And you still didn't explain why you want it, if it's not to build software based on it. Of course I want to build sw based on it, I said so in the first post of this thread, but that doesn't automatically imply that t this software will be in the Mageia repos (that's a separate issue). You're building other software, but you can't rebuild a qt3 package yourself ?
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On Friday 25 March 2011 08:18:38, Tux99 wrote: Quote: nicolas vigier wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 12:08 Because we want to be sure that nothing is built on this library. So you are arbitrarily making life harder to people like Xavier and myself. If you think so... As as already said earlier, if you want to compile TDE, you can also compile qt3 with devel enable because you 'll need to *patch* qt3 to be able to compile TDE =3.5.12 cf http://www.trinitydesktop.org/wiki/bin/view/Developers/Qt3 So it's just not about « enable -devel » in qt3 package because i guess you're not going to stick with with TDE 3.5.12 i guess ? So i'll repeat myself once more : - enable qt3 with devel support on your box - patch it (because i expect you want to fix some TDE bugs available in 3.5.12 you'll need to patch for TDE from svn 1214094 - compile, test TDE on your computer with a prefix in /usr (not /opt) - if everything is ok, ask for a space online (i can help if it's really needed for that) to provide TDE in a contrib for more tests - than if it's ok we can start thinking about including some part of it Regards, -- Balcaen John
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
'Twas brillig, and Tux99 at 25/03/11 11:14 did gyre and gimble: My concerns here are exactly because I'm getting the feeling that freedom is being unnecessarily restricted in Mageia. This is a very, very subjective statement, and I am rather concerned that it's being used as some kind of leverage here (perhaps include a picture of a puppy with sad eyes too! :p) Freedom is in no way restricted. I see absolutely no problem with compiling a qt3 package yourself with the -devel package enabled if you want to use it. If you come up with a set of applications that then build off it that you want to be included in Mageia repos, then I'm sure this can be discussed at the time. Saying that a certain packaging option restricts freedom is a statement I find rather offensive. Nothing is restricted, you simply have to rebuild things. Ahmad disabled gvfs-iphone the other day as it requires a newer (and apparently less stable) libimobiledevice. Does that restrict my freedom? No, of course it does not. I don't necessarily agree with the decision and I'll test the stability of the new combo in coming weeks to see if it can be included officially. This isn't restricting my freedom, it's just a process I have to go through. This is exactly the same with your qt3-devel issue. Col -- Colin Guthrie mageia(at)colin.guthr.ie http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited [http://www.tribalogic.net/] Open Source: Mageia Contributor [http://www.mageia.org/] PulseAudio Hacker [http://www.pulseaudio.org/] Trac Hacker [http://trac.edgewall.org/]
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Quote: Balcaen John wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 12:30 As as already said earlier, if you want to compile TDE, you can also compile qt3 with devel enable because you 'll need to *patch* qt3 to be able to compile TDE =3.5.12 cf http://www.trinitydesktop.org/wiki/bin/view/Developers/Qt3 I'm aware of the patch needed for TDE =3.5.12, but my current interest is 3.5.12. After that when the patch is needed for future versions then I will look at applying the patch to the qt3 package. So i'll repeat myself once more : - enable qt3 with devel support on your box - patch it (because i expect you want to fix some TDE bugs available in 3.5.12 you'll need to patch for TDE from svn 1214094 - compile, test TDE on your computer with a prefix in /usr (not /opt) - if everything is ok, ask for a space online (i can help if it's really needed for that) to provide TDE in a contrib for more tests - than if it's ok we can start thinking about including some part of it As I said earlier in this thread I have of course already rebuilt the qt3 package on my box and started working on the TDE packages (thanks to work done by Tim for Mandriva it's far easier for me now). The point is with the overwhelmingly negative attitude directed towards me even 'thinking' about TDE in Mageia, I don't think my reaction is that surprising, or is it? At this point I don't think there is any chance that TDE ever goes into the Mageia repos, given the attitudes I have faced here. Also this is not really about my ideas as Xavier's post showed, there are others too that are affected by these arbitrary and unnecessary limitations (they are probably just less outspoken than I am). -- Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Quote: tux99 wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 12:47 Quote: Balcaen John wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 12:30 As as already said earlier, if you want to compile TDE, you can also compile qt3 with devel enable because you 'll need to *patch* qt3 to be able to compile TDE =3.5.12 cf http://www.trinitydesktop.org/wiki/bin/view/Developers/Qt3 I'm aware of the patch needed for TDE =3.5.12, but my current interest is 3.5.12. After that when the patch is needed for future versions then I will look at applying the patch to the qt3 package. Correction: I meant to say the patch is needed for TDE 3.5.12, TDE 3.5.12 does not require it AFAIK. -- Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
nicolas vigier wrote: On Fri, 25 Mar 2011, Tux99 wrote: Quote: nicolas vigier wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 12:08 Because we want to be sure that nothing is built on this library. So you are arbitrarily making life harder to people like Xavier and myself. And you want to arbitrarily make life a lot harder to people who want to make sure the distribution is not based on obsolete and unmaintained software. On the other hand, rebuilding a qt3 package yourself takes a few minutes. [...] You're building other software, but you can't rebuild a qt3 package yourself ? Sorry but I can't agree here: when I build a software, I like to build _just_ the software, not the whole system around! (I would use a Gentoo otherwise). I loved Mandriva because of this point: it was at the same time simple to use AND full of resource to build and customize specialized applications. If you are on this way, you can also remove QCad*: yes it is old, unmaintained and based on QT3 - but still the best free 2D drawing software on Linux ... As a user, I still use applications which needs qt3 and with no equivalent based on QT4 ; so I would like qt3-devel to be included in Mageia I can't see the point in not including packages just because they are unmaintained. They are still used and useful + you have people who want to package them, so ? Thanks for reading me, Xavier * maybe it is already removed from Mageia, I didn't checked. But I think I can find a lot of other example of obsolete unmaintained software but still useful which were in Mandriva (eg xmms).
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Quote: Colin Guthrie wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 12:43 Freedom is in no way restricted. I see absolutely no problem with compiling a qt3 package yourself with the -devel package enabled if you want to use it. But isn't one of the reasons for participating in a community distro, wanting to share what each of us builds for ourselves? And if such sharing is being vetoed preemptively in advance without an objective reason based on facts but rather based on fears and personal opinions, isn't that an unnecessary restriction of freedom that doesn't suit a true community distro? -- Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
2011/3/25 Tux99 tux99-...@uridium.org Quote: Balcaen John wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 12:30 As as already said earlier, if you want to compile TDE, you can also compile qt3 with devel enable because you 'll need to *patch* qt3 to be able to compile TDE =3.5.12 cf http://www.trinitydesktop.org/wiki/bin/view/Developers/Qt3 I'm aware of the patch needed for TDE =3.5.12, but my current interest is 3.5.12. After that when the patch is needed for future versions then I will look at applying the patch to the qt3 package. So i'll repeat myself once more : - enable qt3 with devel support on your box - patch it (because i expect you want to fix some TDE bugs available in 3.5.12 you'll need to patch for TDE from svn 1214094 - compile, test TDE on your computer with a prefix in /usr (not /opt) - if everything is ok, ask for a space online (i can help if it's really needed for that) to provide TDE in a contrib for more tests - than if it's ok we can start thinking about including some part of it As I said earlier in this thread I have of course already rebuilt the qt3 package on my box and started working on the TDE packages (thanks to work done by Tim for Mandriva it's far easier for me now). So we can now work on next step ? Assume you can build it without problem, that's it's including without problem in mageia, put it on an external repository for more test and after discuss again about it's inclusion in mandriva. The point is with the overwhelmingly negative attitude directed towards me even 'thinking' about TDE in Mageia, I don't think my reaction is that surprising, or is it? I did not see any negative attitude directed towards you, most of people told you that for the moment it was a no-go in order to enable qt3-devel until you'll be able to prove that TDE can integrate nicely in Mageia, that's all. They also explained : - why qt3 was still in mageia why we did not package the -devel files. We could have close this thread far earlier At this point I don't think there is any chance that TDE ever goes into the Mageia repos, given the attitudes I have faced here. I don't see why. The only problem we faced is that we're not agree about packaging qt3-devel for the moment, that's all. We proposed you to packaged TDE , get it reviewed etc etc. Some of us indeed ask for a Qt4 TDE and not a Qt3 TDE.. Also this is not really about my ideas as Xavier's post showed, there are others too that are affected by these arbitrary and unnecessary limitations (they are probably just less outspoken than I am). We started a new distribution and we made choices, one of them was to not have Qt3 apps. It's not like we were providing Qt3 others apps suddently someone decides to drop all of them from the distribution... This could be seen as arbitrary and unnecessary limitations because suddently you can loose functionnality, here we started *without* thoses because we decided to start like this. -- Balcaen John Jabber-Id: mik...@jabber.littleboboy.net
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Hi, Based on all this conversation here, it is clear that we have gotten off topic. My suggestion would be to make a separate repository for Trinity. Beware, we also updated Qt to version 3.3.8c (just a few minor changes, no idea if bugs remain) while we finish the porting to Qt4. -- later, Robert Xu
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Quote: John Balcaen wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 13:27 As I said earlier in this thread I have of course already rebuilt the qt3 package on my box and started working on the TDE packages (thanks to work done by Tim for Mandriva it's far easier for me now). So we can now work on next step ? I said I started working on the TDE packages, not that I have completed and fully debugged them. Right now I'm quite demotivated to continue with this since I don't see the point given that it won't be included in the repos. Xavier's post about qt3-devel are also being completely ignored and they have nothing to do with TDE, but are at least as valid. At this point I don't think there is any chance that TDE ever goes into the Mageia repos, given the attitudes I have faced here. I don't see why. Maybe because core members of Mageia have explicitly said they are against TDE being included in the Mageia repos earlier in this thread? We started a new distribution and we made choices, one of them was to not have Qt3 apps. Who is we? I don't recall any debate about this and even less a consensus being formed in the community. It's not like we were providing Qt3 others apps suddently someone decides to drop all of them from the distribution... This could be seen as arbitrary and unnecessary limitations because suddently you can loose functionnality, here we started *without* thoses because we decided to start like this. Mageia claims to be an upgrade for Mandriva, so yes, this is packages being dropped and loss of functionality for existing users, see also Xavier's posts. John, please don't get me wrong you and Blino have been some of the few voices of reason in this thread and I appreciate that. -- Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Quote: Robert Xu wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 13:53 Hi, Based on all this conversation here, it is clear that we have gotten off topic. My suggestion would be to make a separate repository for Trinity. Beware, we also updated Qt to version 3.3.8c (just a few minor changes, no idea if bugs remain) while we finish the porting to Qt4. Thanks Robert, I might take up your offer of a repo on the Trinity servers if I decide to continue to build Trinty packages for Mageia. But right now I'm a bit demotivated to continue with this and in fact to continue with Mageia at all. Maybe I will rather help you to make some great Trinity packages for Redhat/Centos since I'm also a Redhat/Centos user, but right now I have to first make up my mind. -- Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On 3/25/11, Tux99 tux99-...@uridium.org wrote: Quote: yves wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 09:42 Hi, QT4 is released since 2005, about... 6 years ? So, why is it usefull to maintain a package that becomes depreciated ? You are missing the point. QT3 is already part of Mageia and it wasn't me who added it. All I'm asking is if there is any compelling reason not to enable qt3-devel in the existing qt3 source package that is part of Mageia. If there isn't any COMPELLING reason, then qt3-devel should be reenabled as long as someone wishes it. You're missing their point. I agree, there is no 'compelling reason' not to offer it. The people doing the work just don't want to because enabling it means they have to support it. Since Mageia doesn't need it for anything, it makes no sense to enable it; it consumes scarce resources for no direct benefit. You are free to re-compile QT3 and enable it yourself, which is what i suggest. But I see your point as well. While Mageia may not need it, legacy apps may. It would seem to make no sense to deliberately break compatibility with legacy apps on purpose. Indeed, one of the strengths of Linux is the ability to support legacy apps. And since qt3-devel is not a stand-alone package and requires a flip of the switch to produce when they are compiling qt3 anyway, it seems only logical to go ahead and produce it too. The people who are responsible for making the final decision have decided not to do it, leaving you with two choices: either re-compile it yourself to your satisfaction or fork Mageia and make the decisions for the forked distro. Again, i suggest you just re-compile QT3 for your personal use and make the -devel.srpm and -devel.rpm available for others to use. You need to move past this issue. -- Hoyt
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
'Twas brillig, and Tux99 at 25/03/11 12:10 did gyre and gimble: Quote: Colin Guthrie wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 12:43 Freedom is in no way restricted. I see absolutely no problem with compiling a qt3 package yourself with the -devel package enabled if you want to use it. But isn't one of the reasons for participating in a community distro, wanting to share what each of us builds for ourselves? And if such sharing is being vetoed preemptively in advance without an objective reason based on facts but rather based on fears and personal opinions, isn't that an unnecessary restriction of freedom that doesn't suit a true community distro? Compare it to sharing an apartment/house with some friends. Do you want the other people to leave their unwashed clothes all over the laundry room, or unwashed dishes piling up in the kitchen? Or would you prefer that everyone works together to keep things neat and tidy? If you take each individual freedom to it's logical extreme, then sharing a house would allow for the messiest person in the world to share space with the tidiest. Each has the right to their own feelings and ways of being, but in reality such a combination simply wouldn't work. There has to be middle ground that is reached. That's the whole point in a community. You cannot expect everyone to automatically agree with your take on things. It's clear that some people do agree with your and some don't. This shouldn't be overly surprising. Personally I'd rather keep things tidy and not enable things unless there is a direct need for it (e.g. a dependency). If and when there is an app that requires qt3 in the official repos, then that is such a dep, but until then, it makes sense to keep things neat, especially when rebuilding qt3 with the devel package (and patching it accordingly it seems) is such a trivial step compared to the relatively massive job of the TDE itself. If TDE is going to be made available in Mageia directly then by all means, qt3 will have to be patched and updated accordingly, but it seems rather pre-emptive to get worried about something that remains to be proven at the current time. Real reasons are better than hypothetical ones. And if I'm honest, you've referred to other peoples opinions continually as non-objective while I'm pretty sure all the reasons I've seen on this thread (and my own feelings) are perfectly objective and logical and I find it rather dismissive that someone should belittle others by continually stating they are not. They are not non-objective, you just happen not to agree with them! That's fine, you are perfectly within your rights to disagree, just don't confuse the two. There is a very clear route forward and it's incredibly simple, just rebuild your own QT3. As said above, if/when the whole of TDM goes into Mageia, then the official qt3 can be adjusted as it's needed. It was Donald Knuth who said Premature optimization is the root of all evil, and the same can be said of Speculative Packaging IMO! Col -- Colin Guthrie mageia(at)colin.guthr.ie http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited [http://www.tribalogic.net/] Open Source: Mageia Contributor [http://www.mageia.org/] PulseAudio Hacker [http://www.pulseaudio.org/] Trac Hacker [http://trac.edgewall.org/]
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Quote: Colin Guthrie wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 14:36 It was Donald Knuth who said Premature optimization is the root of all evil, and the same can be said of Speculative Packaging IMO! Actually you just made my point here, excluding qt3-devel out of 'neatness' is quite clearly premature optimization, therefore the root of all evil as you wisely quote... :) -- Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
'Twas brillig, and Tux99 at 25/03/11 13:42 did gyre and gimble: Quote: Colin Guthrie wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 14:36 It was Donald Knuth who said Premature optimization is the root of all evil, and the same can be said of Speculative Packaging IMO! Actually you just made my point here, excluding qt3-devel out of 'neatness' is quite clearly premature optimization, therefore the root of all evil as you wisely quote... :) optimization and concious decision are two very different things, but feel free to distort it to make yourself feel better if you like! And I'm not going to get into a debate about semantics here. Such debates are for late nights and a few good whiskies... :p Col -- Colin Guthrie mageia(at)colin.guthr.ie http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited [http://www.tribalogic.net/] Open Source: Mageia Contributor [http://www.mageia.org/] PulseAudio Hacker [http://www.pulseaudio.org/] Trac Hacker [http://trac.edgewall.org/]
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On 25 March 2011 13:27, John Balcaen mik...@mandriva.org wrote: The only problem we faced is that we're not agree about packaging qt3-devel Totally off topic: are you french :-) ?
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Hoyt Duff wrote: On 3/25/11, Tux99 tux99-...@uridium.org wrote: Quote: yves wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 09:42 Hi, QT4 is released since 2005, about... 6 years ? So, why is it usefull to maintain a package that becomes depreciated ? You are missing the point. QT3 is already part of Mageia and it wasn't me who added it. All I'm asking is if there is any compelling reason not to enable qt3-devel in the existing qt3 source package that is part of Mageia. If there isn't any COMPELLING reason, then qt3-devel should be reenabled as long as someone wishes it. You're missing their point. I agree, there is no 'compelling reason' not to offer it. The people doing the work just don't want to because enabling it means they have to support it. _Since Mageia doesn't need it for anything_, it makes no sense to enable it; it consumes scarce resources for no direct benefit. You are free to re-compile QT3 and enable it yourself, which is what i suggest. [...] Hi again, You are wrong, there are software which need qt3-devel, but they have been removed from Mageia! I have just taken a look at Mageia missing package list, and QCad will be removed because it is built against QT3 (quoting: qcad: stewb - noimport(started to do this one, but as I understand we'd like to drop Qt3, so I stopped)) Remember: QCad is a 2D professional drawing tool and it has NO equivalent on Linux, so removing it is clearly a regression compared to Mandriva. Sad to see that you are stuck at removing as useful packages as qt3-devel. Contrarily to what you wrote, It _is_ still needed (not only for my personal needs) and removing it has side effects because it implies removing software (with no replacement) from the mandriva list ... Please reconsider your choices, Xavier P.S. I use Mandriva and QCad at work.
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On Fri, 25 Mar 2011, xi wrote: Hi again, You are wrong, there are software which need qt3-devel, but they have been removed from Mageia! I have just taken a look at Mageia missing package list, and QCad will be removed because it is built against QT3 (quoting: qcad: stewb - noimport(started to do this one, but as I understand we'd like to drop Qt3, so I stopped)) Remember: QCad is a 2D professional drawing tool and it has NO equivalent on Linux, so removing it is clearly a regression compared to Mandriva. Mandriva is also removing qt3. As well as most distributions. So if QCad developers want their software to be usable on recent distributions, they need to port it to qt4. And it seems some people are working on it, and have it working : http://www.qcad.org/rsforum/viewtopic.php?t=1162sid=34c9830d18b8abe49c13e31b08496d6f If you want it, you can help making a QCad package using qt4.
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
2011/3/25 xi ctrl.alt@free.fr: Hoyt Duff wrote: I agree, there is no 'compelling reason' not to offer it. The people doing the work just don't want to because enabling it means they have to support it. _Since Mageia doesn't need it for anything_, it makes no sense to enable it; it consumes scarce resources for no direct benefit. You are free to re-compile QT3 and enable it yourself, which is what i suggest. You are wrong, there are software which need qt3-devel, but they have been removed from Mageia! I have just taken a look at Mageia missing package list, and QCad will be removed because it is built against QT3 (quoting: qcad: stewb - noimport(started to do this one, but as I understand we'd like to drop Qt3, so I stopped)) Well, without going into any technical details and only by looking at the basic question, there seem to be: - Some users who are working with old (but still usable and working!) software who are using this with Mandriva, so these users would like to be able to use it in another distribution. - The devels of that other distribution had to decide which software they will import into their new[1] distribution. Given the low ressources in manpower at this point in time they had to decide to leave this or that package out, especially when the import of such a package demands extended support. This means no harm to the users of those packages, they can still use them the way they did until now (with Mandriva in this case). Therefore the argument by those users that they are left out in the rain if this software will not be imported is not valid. Looks to me a valid decision of the devels of the new distribution. [1] Please do not argue that Mageia is a sequel to Mandriva (somebody did that in this thread) because it is not. If Mandriva would have closed shop, then you may have a point in asking for some continouity. But this is not the case. -- wobo
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Op vrijdag 25 maart 2011 12:43:28 schreef Colin Guthrie: 'Twas brillig, and Tux99 at 25/03/11 11:14 did gyre and gimble: [...] Freedom is in no way restricted. [...] totally off topic here, but: Freedom is always restricted, if there is unrestricted freedom, other people will not be free again to choose what they want. Rules are there to restrict the freedom, so everyone has a bit of freedom...
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
I think this thread is starting to derail from a simple technical question limted to a specific issue (reenabling qt-dev) to an ideological argument based greatly on fear and paranoia. Adding TrinityDE to Mageia, like adding any bigger software, is a gradual step by step process. I don't think anybody is planning an untested mass import of the whole load of TDE packages in one go. My idea is to first get the core TDE packages into Mageia cauldron (of course tested locally first) and then gradually look at the apps one by one (not necessarily me, any packager who is interested in TDE should of course participate). The core packages are quite limited in number (6-7 SRPMS), but already enable the use of TDE as desktop. I hope such an approach is agreeable for everyone. -- Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Am Donnerstag 24 März 2011, 08:23:18 schrieb Tux99: I think this thread is starting to derail from a simple technical question limted to a specific issue (reenabling qt-dev) to an ideological argument based greatly on fear and paranoia. It is? I don't think so. Unless you think considerations about conflicts of TDE with KDE4 are an ideological argument based greatly on fear and paranoia. I do go along with the majority of people writing in this thread. We should not have a DE conflicting with KDE4, we should not have packages or apps by the same name. The core packages are quite limited in number (6-7 SRPMS), but already enable the use of TDE as desktop. As long as those packages (and all the others, that follow) are following the packaging guidlines, are not conflicting with KDE4 apps and are named in a way that users see, these are TDE packages, it's ok with me! Oliver
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On Wed, 23 Mar 2011, Robert Xu wrote: As I reiterate, Trinity does not interfere with KDE4 in any way, if you keep /opt/kde3 Are you sure ? For libs installed in /opt/kde3/lib, rpm find-provides will add the provides for the libs on the packages. When an other package require this library, it will give the choice to install the Trinity package and some people will do it. Then there is two options : - /opt/kde3/lib is not in ld.so.conf, and the programs using this lib will not run - /opt/kde3/lib is in ld.so.conf, so the programs using this lib will run, but we can have two versions of the lib installed, one in /usr/lib and one in /opt/kde3/lib, and we don't know which one will be used, so we can see various strange problems.
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 09:13, Tux99 tux99-...@uridium.org wrote: Like I said before, KDE3.5 coexisted very well with KDE4 since 2009.1 on Mandriva and Trinity is even more so being developed with coexistence in mind, so there shouldn't be any unsolvable issues. Maybe it did coexist well at a significant cost on the packaging side? (time, packaging compromises) and maybe the situation isn't exactly the same as then? This is exactly what I would call a reasonable factual argumentation. But an argument is not going to make anyone progress one way or the other here obviously. If there are fears, then provide facts to counter them (no argument, but facts). You propose to add TDE in the repository. After this discussion, the next step is you to first package TDE, build and test and see/demonstrate how it goes, regarding at least these 5 points (summarized from above) before an integration is considered: 1. no conflict on files 2. install in %_prefix (not in /opt) 3. no duplicate software name (do not confuse user to decide between tde-k3b and k3b for instance - or find a realistic workaround use case). 4. at this point, no apps outside of the TDE project should require TDE 5. committed maintainers Romain
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On 24 March 2011 11:56, Olivier Blin mag...@blino.org wrote: nicolas vigier bo...@mars-attacks.org writes: On Wed, 23 Mar 2011, Robert Xu wrote: As I reiterate, Trinity does not interfere with KDE4 in any way, if you keep /opt/kde3 Are you sure ? For libs installed in /opt/kde3/lib, rpm find-provides will add the provides for the libs on the packages. When an other package require this library, it will give the choice to install the Trinity package and some people will do it. Then there is two options : - /opt/kde3/lib is not in ld.so.conf, and the programs using this lib will not run - /opt/kde3/lib is in ld.so.conf, so the programs using this lib will run, but we can have two versions of the lib installed, one in /usr/lib and one in /opt/kde3/lib, and we don't know which one will be used, so we can see various strange problems. This should not be an issue if the libraries from Trinity and KDE4 have different majors -- Olivier Blin - blino No guarantees on that point... you never know when the major of a lib is going to change, and there're hundreds of libs in a DE... -- Ahmad Samir
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Op donderdag 24 maart 2011 16:22:15 schreef Ahmad Samir: On 24 March 2011 11:56, Olivier Blin mag...@blino.org wrote: nicolas vigier bo...@mars-attacks.org writes: On Wed, 23 Mar 2011, Robert Xu wrote: As I reiterate, Trinity does not interfere with KDE4 in any way, if you keep /opt/kde3 Are you sure ? For libs installed in /opt/kde3/lib, rpm find-provides will add the provides for the libs on the packages. When an other package require this library, it will give the choice to install the Trinity package and some people will do it. Then there is two options : - /opt/kde3/lib is not in ld.so.conf, and the programs using this lib will not run - /opt/kde3/lib is in ld.so.conf, so the programs using this lib will run, but we can have two versions of the lib installed, one in /usr/lib and one in /opt/kde3/lib, and we don't know which one will be used, so we can see various strange problems. This should not be an issue if the libraries from Trinity and KDE4 have different majors -- Olivier Blin - blino No guarantees on that point... you never know when the major of a lib is going to change, and there're hundreds of libs in a DE... It is a lot of work, but i have no qualms if the people maintain both qt3 and TDE and can guarantee no breakage at any point in time, and a TDE policy that needs to be welltested before introducing. if possible, also a priority preference (like it was done with systemd)
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On 24 March 2011 21:36, Maarten Vanraes maarten.vanr...@gmail.com wrote: Op donderdag 24 maart 2011 14:10:39 schreef Romain d'Alverny: On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 09:13, Tux99 tux99-...@uridium.org wrote: Like I said before, KDE3.5 coexisted very well with KDE4 since 2009.1 on Mandriva and Trinity is even more so being developed with coexistence in mind, so there shouldn't be any unsolvable issues. Maybe it did coexist well at a significant cost on the packaging side? (time, packaging compromises) and maybe the situation isn't exactly the same as then? This is exactly what I would call a reasonable factual argumentation. But an argument is not going to make anyone progress one way or the other here obviously. If there are fears, then provide facts to counter them (no argument, but facts). You propose to add TDE in the repository. After this discussion, the next step is you to first package TDE, build and test and see/demonstrate how it goes, regarding at least these 5 points (summarized from above) before an integration is considered: 1. no conflict on files 2. install in %_prefix (not in /opt) 3. no duplicate software name (do not confuse user to decide between tde-k3b and k3b for instance - or find a realistic workaround use case). 4. at this point, no apps outside of the TDE project should require TDE 5. committed maintainers Romain also promising to maintain qt3 as long as it's needed and here, the same thing, not conflicting with qt4 in any way How could a packager propose to maintain qt3 when it's been dead upstream for years? so no upstream support/patches/whatever... -- Ahmad Samir
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Op donderdag 24 maart 2011 20:55:47 schreef Ahmad Samir: On 24 March 2011 21:36, Maarten Vanraes maarten.vanr...@gmail.com wrote: Op donderdag 24 maart 2011 14:10:39 schreef Romain d'Alverny: On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 09:13, Tux99 tux99-...@uridium.org wrote: Like I said before, KDE3.5 coexisted very well with KDE4 since 2009.1 on Mandriva and Trinity is even more so being developed with coexistence in mind, so there shouldn't be any unsolvable issues. Maybe it did coexist well at a significant cost on the packaging side? (time, packaging compromises) and maybe the situation isn't exactly the same as then? This is exactly what I would call a reasonable factual argumentation. But an argument is not going to make anyone progress one way or the other here obviously. If there are fears, then provide facts to counter them (no argument, but facts). You propose to add TDE in the repository. After this discussion, the next step is you to first package TDE, build and test and see/demonstrate how it goes, regarding at least these 5 points (summarized from above) before an integration is considered: 1. no conflict on files 2. install in %_prefix (not in /opt) 3. no duplicate software name (do not confuse user to decide between tde-k3b and k3b for instance - or find a realistic workaround use case). 4. at this point, no apps outside of the TDE project should require TDE 5. committed maintainers Romain also promising to maintain qt3 as long as it's needed and here, the same thing, not conflicting with qt4 in any way How could a packager propose to maintain qt3 when it's been dead upstream for years? so no upstream support/patches/whatever... yes, it would be a huge amount of work; and that's exactly the reason i proposed to OP to just wait until it's qt4.
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 10:04 PM, Maarten Vanraes maarten.vanr...@gmail.com wrote: Op donderdag 24 maart 2011 20:55:47 schreef Ahmad Samir: On 24 March 2011 21:36, Maarten Vanraes maarten.vanr...@gmail.com wrote: Op donderdag 24 maart 2011 14:10:39 schreef Romain d'Alverny: On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 09:13, Tux99 tux99-...@uridium.org wrote: Like I said before, KDE3.5 coexisted very well with KDE4 since 2009.1 on Mandriva and Trinity is even more so being developed with coexistence in mind, so there shouldn't be any unsolvable issues. Maybe it did coexist well at a significant cost on the packaging side? (time, packaging compromises) and maybe the situation isn't exactly the same as then? This is exactly what I would call a reasonable factual argumentation. But an argument is not going to make anyone progress one way or the other here obviously. If there are fears, then provide facts to counter them (no argument, but facts). You propose to add TDE in the repository. After this discussion, the next step is you to first package TDE, build and test and see/demonstrate how it goes, regarding at least these 5 points (summarized from above) before an integration is considered: 1. no conflict on files 2. install in %_prefix (not in /opt) 3. no duplicate software name (do not confuse user to decide between tde-k3b and k3b for instance - or find a realistic workaround use case). 4. at this point, no apps outside of the TDE project should require TDE 5. committed maintainers Romain also promising to maintain qt3 as long as it's needed and here, the same thing, not conflicting with qt4 in any way How could a packager propose to maintain qt3 when it's been dead upstream for years? so no upstream support/patches/whatever... yes, it would be a huge amount of work; and that's exactly the reason i proposed to OP to just wait until it's qt4. this will just remove the qt3 issue bug all the other issues will still be valid.
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On Wednesday 23 March 2011 04:49:21, Tux99 wrote: I noticed there is no qt-devel rpm in mageia. [...] If i'm not wrong qt3 was simply wrongly imported pushed. Also no apps seems to requires it at all (especially when there's no -devel to link against it) I would suggest to drop it at all in fact. Can we please reenable the qt3-devel package as it's required to build the TrinityDE (www.trinitydesktop.org) Did you rebuild qt3 locally the whole trinityDE with sucess ? Maybe we can simply wait for the migration to Qt4 instead of importing/linking again Qt3 before obsoleting it in 6 months ? Regards, -- Balcaen John
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On Wednesday 23 March 2011 07:37:12, Balcaen John wrote: On Wednesday 23 March 2011 04:49:21, Tux99 wrote: I noticed there is no qt-devel rpm in mageia. [...] If i'm not wrong qt3 was simply wrongly imported pushed. Also no apps seems to requires it at all (especially when there's no -devel to link against it) Hum i forgot LSB test while writing :) -- Balcaen John
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Quote: tux99 wrote on Wed, 23 March 2011 13:18 Version 3.5.12 was just released a couple of weeks ago: http://www.trinitydesktop.org/releases.php Actually I confused the date :) the current version was released last October. Anyway that doesn't change the fact that QT4 support is still nowhere near (the roadmap has it for 2012) and in the meantime I would like to have the current version on Mageia. -- Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 13:35:05 +0100 (CET) Tux99 wrote: Quote: tux99 wrote on Wed, 23 March 2011 13:18 Version 3.5.12 was just released a couple of weeks ago: http://www.trinitydesktop.org/releases.php Actually I confused the date :) the current version was released last October. Anyway that doesn't change the fact that QT4 support is still nowhere near (the roadmap has it for 2012) and in the meantime I would like to have the current version on Mageia. +1 John
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 10:01, John j...@neodoc.biz wrote: On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 13:35:05 +0100 (CET) Tux99 wrote: Quote: tux99 wrote on Wed, 23 March 2011 13:18 Version 3.5.12 was just released a couple of weeks ago: http://www.trinitydesktop.org/releases.php Actually I confused the date :) the current version was released last October. Anyway that doesn't change the fact that QT4 support is still nowhere near (the roadmap has it for 2012) and in the meantime I would like to have the current version on Mageia. Roadmap is outdated atm. +1 John Hi, Trinity Qt4 support is experimental, you can see it in SVN.trinitydesktop.org And truthfully, if you want to bring Trinity to Mageia, you should wait for release 3.5.13 - because with an autoconf 2.63, the build breaks. -- later, Robert Xu
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Quote: Robert Xu wrote on Wed, 23 March 2011 16:09 Trinity Qt4 support is experimental, you can see it in SVN.trinitydesktop.org I'm aware of that, that's why I said we need qt3-devel re-enabled in the QT3 package. I don't want to build the current version with experimental QT4 support. And truthfully, if you want to bring Trinity to Mageia, you should wait for release 3.5.13 - because with an autoconf 2.63, the build breaks. I'm aware of the autoconf issue but I found a workaround [1] and I have managed to build a libtqtinterface RPM so far with the workaround. Are you a TrinityDE developer? I saw your name on the trinity-dev ML. If yes then maybe you could be a great help for packaging up TrinityDE on Mageia, if you feel like helping with it. :) Do you know when 3.5.13 will be released? Is the release imminent? If it's imminent then I agree it's best to wait. [1] http://cvs.pld-linux.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/packages/libtqtinter face/libtqtinterface.spec -- Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 12:08, Tux99 tux99-...@uridium.org wrote: I'm aware of the autoconf issue but I found a workaround [1] and I have managed to build a libtqtinterface RPM so far with the workaround. I recommend seeing this message: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/?0::593 Are you a TrinityDE developer? I saw your name on the trinity-dev ML. If yes then maybe you could be a great help for packaging up TrinityDE on Mageia, if you feel like helping with it. :) I do it for Fedora, and partially for openSUSE with the KDE:KDE3 maintainer. I was going to do some for Mandriva, but I've got a lot on my hands and not a lot of experience with Mandriva/Mageia macros and that stuff, so I can help, but someone else has to maintain the spec ;) (PM me for more info on packaging Trinity, including write access to the trinity's SVN for packaging) Do you know when 3.5.13 will be released? Is the release imminent? If it's imminent then I agree it's best to wait. Sadly, no. The real goal of 3.5.13 at the moment is porting to cmake, which is a long and tedious process. If anyone knew cmake well, i'm sure we could speed up the process dramatically. 3.5.14 and 3.5.15 will bring the depreciation of hal and the migration to qt4, respectively (AFAIK) -- later, Robert Xu
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Tux99 tux99-...@uridium.org wrote: Quote: Robert Xu wrote on Wed, 23 March 2011 16:09 Trinity Qt4 support is experimental, you can see it in SVN.trinitydesktop.org I'm aware of that, that's why I said we need qt3-devel re-enabled in the QT3 package. I don't want to build the current version with experimental QT4 support. And truthfully, if you want to bring Trinity to Mageia, you should wait for release 3.5.13 - because with an autoconf 2.63, the build breaks. I'm aware of the autoconf issue but I found a workaround [1] and I have managed to build a libtqtinterface RPM so far with the workaround. Are you a TrinityDE developer? I saw your name on the trinity-dev ML. If yes then maybe you could be a great help for packaging up TrinityDE on Mageia, if you feel like helping with it. :) Do you know when 3.5.13 will be released? Is the release imminent? If it's imminent then I agree it's best to wait. [1] http://cvs.pld-linux.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/packages/libtqtinter face/libtqtinterface.spec -- Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/ Hi, After looking to the source tarball which is huge ( 600 Mo ), I see some pbs: [dmorgan@localhost kde_trinity_3_5_11]$ ls applications/ kdeaccessibility/ kdeadmin/kdebase/ kde-common/ kdegames/ kde-i18n/ kdemultimedia/ kdepim/ kdetoys/ kdevelop/ konstruct/ dependencies/ kdeaddons/ kdeartwork/ kdebindings/ kdeedu/ kdegraphics/ kdelibs/ kdenetwork/ kdesdk/ kdeutils/ kdewebdev/ libraries/ [dmorgan@localhost kde_trinity_3_5_11]$ ls applications/ abakus/gtk-qt-engine/ kde-guidance/ kile/ knights/ ksplash-engine-moodin/ rosegarden/ adept/ gwenview/ kde-style-lipstik/ kima/ knowit/ksquirrel/ smartcardauth/ amarok/k3b/ kde-style-qtcurve/ kio-apt/knutclient/ksystemlog/ smb4k/ basket/k9copy/kdesudo/ kio-locate/ koffice/ ktechlab/ soundkonverter/ compizconfig-backend-kconfig/ kaffeine/ kdesvn/ kio-umountwrapper/ konversation/ ktorrent/ tellico/ desktop-effects-kde/ kaffeine-mozilla/ kde-systemsettings/ kmplayer/ kopete-otr/kuickshow/ wlassistant/ digikam/ katapult/ kdiff3/ kmyfirewall/kpicosim/ kvirc/ yakuake/ dolphin/ kbarcode/ kdirstat/ knemo/ kpowersave/kvkbd/ filelight/ kbfx/ kdmtheme/ knetload/ kradio/kwin-style-crystal/ filelight-l10n/kchmviewer/kdpkg/ knetstats/ krename/ piklab/ fusion-icon/ kcpuload/ keep/ knetworkmanager/krusader/ potracegui/ [dmorgan@localhost kde_trinity_3_5_11]$ The issues we see that are blocking are : we can't/won't package/add twice the same apps, one for TDE and one for KDE and this issue is a blocker one. I would prefer to see TDE in a external repository for now. ( i.e you work locally to reenable qt3, package TDE, ... and then we can start to review all this and talk about integration in mageia ) This will mess with menus too because users will have 2 times the icons of K3b, and can lead to deps issues, files conflicts, how is called K3b binary files ? k3b ? so it will conflict with normal k3b and so on for the other apps. For Robert Xu on opensuse this is a completly != issue as repos are seperated, but that would be nice to have a 3rd external repo for this :) My 2cts
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 13:46, Dexter Morgan dmorga...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Tux99 tux99-...@uridium.org wrote: Quote: Robert Xu wrote on Wed, 23 March 2011 16:09 Trinity Qt4 support is experimental, you can see it in SVN.trinitydesktop.org I'm aware of that, that's why I said we need qt3-devel re-enabled in the QT3 package. I don't want to build the current version with experimental QT4 support. And truthfully, if you want to bring Trinity to Mageia, you should wait for release 3.5.13 - because with an autoconf 2.63, the build breaks. I'm aware of the autoconf issue but I found a workaround [1] and I have managed to build a libtqtinterface RPM so far with the workaround. Are you a TrinityDE developer? I saw your name on the trinity-dev ML. If yes then maybe you could be a great help for packaging up TrinityDE on Mageia, if you feel like helping with it. :) Do you know when 3.5.13 will be released? Is the release imminent? If it's imminent then I agree it's best to wait. [1] http://cvs.pld-linux.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/packages/libtqtinter face/libtqtinterface.spec -- Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/ Hi, After looking to the source tarball which is huge ( 600 Mo ), I see some pbs: [dmorgan@localhost kde_trinity_3_5_11]$ ls applications/ kdeaccessibility/ kdeadmin/ kdebase/ kde-common/ kdegames/ kde-i18n/ kdemultimedia/ kdepim/ kdetoys/ kdevelop/ konstruct/ dependencies/ kdeaddons/ kdeartwork/ kdebindings/ kdeedu/ kdegraphics/ kdelibs/ kdenetwork/ kdesdk/ kdeutils/ kdewebdev/ libraries/ [dmorgan@localhost kde_trinity_3_5_11]$ ls applications/ abakus/ gtk-qt-engine/ kde-guidance/ kile/ knights/ ksplash-engine-moodin/ rosegarden/ adept/ gwenview/ kde-style-lipstik/ kima/ knowit/ ksquirrel/ smartcardauth/ amarok/ k3b/ kde-style-qtcurve/ kio-apt/ knutclient/ ksystemlog/ smb4k/ basket/ k9copy/ kdesudo/ kio-locate/ koffice/ ktechlab/ soundkonverter/ compizconfig-backend-kconfig/ kaffeine/ kdesvn/ kio-umountwrapper/ konversation/ ktorrent/ tellico/ desktop-effects-kde/ kaffeine-mozilla/ kde-systemsettings/ kmplayer/ kopete-otr/ kuickshow/ wlassistant/ digikam/ katapult/ kdiff3/ kmyfirewall/ kpicosim/ kvirc/ yakuake/ dolphin/ kbarcode/ kdirstat/ knemo/ kpowersave/ kvkbd/ filelight/ kbfx/ kdmtheme/ knetload/ kradio/ kwin-style-crystal/ filelight-l10n/ kchmviewer/ kdpkg/ knetstats/ krename/ piklab/ fusion-icon/ kcpuload/ keep/ knetworkmanager/ krusader/ potracegui/ [dmorgan@localhost kde_trinity_3_5_11]$ The issues we see that are blocking are : we can't/won't package/add twice the same apps, one for TDE and one for KDE and this issue is a blocker one. I would prefer to see TDE in a external repository for now. ( i.e you work locally to reenable qt3, package TDE, ... and then we can start to review all this and talk about integration in mageia ) This will mess with menus too because users will have 2 times the icons of K3b, and can lead to deps issues, files conflicts, how is called K3b binary files ? k3b ? so it will conflict with normal k3b and so on for the other apps. For Robert Xu on opensuse this is a completly != issue as repos are seperated, but that would be nice to have a 3rd external repo for this :) My 2cts Hi, You're looking at the 3.5.11 tarball :P Try looking here: http://ppa2.quickbuild.pearsoncomputing.net/redirect.php?file=releases/3.5.12/downloads.html -- later, Robert Xu
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 13:46, Dexter Morgan dmorga...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Tux99 tux99-...@uridium.org wrote: Quote: Robert Xu wrote on Wed, 23 March 2011 16:09 Trinity Qt4 support is experimental, you can see it in SVN.trinitydesktop.org I'm aware of that, that's why I said we need qt3-devel re-enabled in the QT3 package. I don't want to build the current version with experimental QT4 support. And truthfully, if you want to bring Trinity to Mageia, you should wait for release 3.5.13 - because with an autoconf 2.63, the build breaks. I'm aware of the autoconf issue but I found a workaround [1] and I have managed to build a libtqtinterface RPM so far with the workaround. Are you a TrinityDE developer? I saw your name on the trinity-dev ML. If yes then maybe you could be a great help for packaging up TrinityDE on Mageia, if you feel like helping with it. :) Do you know when 3.5.13 will be released? Is the release imminent? If it's imminent then I agree it's best to wait. [1] http://cvs.pld-linux.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/packages/libtqtinter face/libtqtinterface.spec -- Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/ Hi, After looking to the source tarball which is huge ( 600 Mo ), I see some pbs: [dmorgan@localhost kde_trinity_3_5_11]$ ls applications/ kdeaccessibility/ kdeadmin/ kdebase/ kde-common/ kdegames/ kde-i18n/ kdemultimedia/ kdepim/ kdetoys/ kdevelop/ konstruct/ dependencies/ kdeaddons/ kdeartwork/ kdebindings/ kdeedu/ kdegraphics/ kdelibs/ kdenetwork/ kdesdk/ kdeutils/ kdewebdev/ libraries/ [dmorgan@localhost kde_trinity_3_5_11]$ ls applications/ abakus/ gtk-qt-engine/ kde-guidance/ kile/ knights/ ksplash-engine-moodin/ rosegarden/ adept/ gwenview/ kde-style-lipstik/ kima/ knowit/ ksquirrel/ smartcardauth/ amarok/ k3b/ kde-style-qtcurve/ kio-apt/ knutclient/ ksystemlog/ smb4k/ basket/ k9copy/ kdesudo/ kio-locate/ koffice/ ktechlab/ soundkonverter/ compizconfig-backend-kconfig/ kaffeine/ kdesvn/ kio-umountwrapper/ konversation/ ktorrent/ tellico/ desktop-effects-kde/ kaffeine-mozilla/ kde-systemsettings/ kmplayer/ kopete-otr/ kuickshow/ wlassistant/ digikam/ katapult/ kdiff3/ kmyfirewall/ kpicosim/ kvirc/ yakuake/ dolphin/ kbarcode/ kdirstat/ knemo/ kpowersave/ kvkbd/ filelight/ kbfx/ kdmtheme/ knetload/ kradio/ kwin-style-crystal/ filelight-l10n/ kchmviewer/ kdpkg/ knetstats/ krename/ piklab/ fusion-icon/ kcpuload/ keep/ knetworkmanager/ krusader/ potracegui/ [dmorgan@localhost kde_trinity_3_5_11]$ The issues we see that are blocking are : we can't/won't package/add twice the same apps, one for TDE and one for KDE and this issue is a blocker one. I would prefer to see TDE in a external repository for now. ( i.e you work locally to reenable qt3, package TDE, ... and then we can start to review all this and talk about integration in mageia ) This will mess with menus too because users will have 2 times the icons of K3b, and can lead to deps issues, files conflicts, how is called K3b binary files ? k3b ? so it will conflict with normal k3b and so on for the other apps. For Robert Xu on opensuse this is a completly != issue as repos are seperated, but that would be nice to have a 3rd external repo for this :) My 2cts And I hate to double post, but I do know that the %configure_kde3 macro should point to /opt/kde3... :) -- later, Robert Xu
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On Wed, 23 Mar 2011, Robert Xu wrote: And I hate to double post, but I do know that the %configure_kde3 macro should point to /opt/kde3... :) So that means that all KDE applications will be twice on the repository, one for KDE4, and one for TDE ? I think that can be confusing for users. Packaging and maintaining this is probably a huge task, and can maybe cause problems to KDE users if only done half, or incorrectly. I think it would be better to start with an external repository. And only import on the main repository once everything is working and we have someone who plans to maintain it.
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 14:50, Tux99 tux99-...@uridium.org wrote: Where do you have the Fedora and openSUSE spec files? Those could be useful as reference. I will PM you eventually but first I have to have a close look at everything, SVN write access would be premature for now. Right now, I'm slowly moving all of them to svn.trinitydesktop.org/svn/trinity-packaging. However, while you can reference them, I am building off of the latest SVN, and may have changes such as using cmake instead of autotools. -- later, Robert Xu
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Quote: Anne nicolas wrote on Wed, 23 March 2011 20:47 As explained by some guys before, we do not want to have both KDE3 and 4 in repository. This has been a big pain to make them live together for some months (even if it looks easy) and it has been a pain to clean repository. I know that KDE3/KDE4 coexistence was hard in the beginning in fact in Mdv 2009.0 it was a disaster, but from 2009.1 onwards it has worked perfectly. I have run a few installs (2009.1 and 2010.0) with both KDE3 and KDE4 on the same box without any issues. The existing Mandriva packages from Tim and tarakbumba are a continuation of the official Mandriva KDE3 packages so they don't have any conflicts with KDE4 anymore. Any Mageia TrinityDE packages would be derived from the Mandriva packages so just like the Mandriva packages there is no reason that there should be any problems. TrinityDE is a live FOSS project and is now completely separate from KDE, so excluding it would be like saying we don't include Gnome since we already provide KDE. Now one solution is to propose a repository dedicated to it on your side. I certainly don't have the web space and bandwidth resources for a repository and frankly I joined Mageia as a packager precisely because I thought Mageia would finally make confusing and conflicting third party repos (like Mandriva has) obsolete. -- Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On Wednesday 23 March 2011 17:25:25, Tux99 wrote: [...] I certainly don't have the web space and bandwidth resources for a repository and frankly I joined Mageia as a packager precisely because I thought Mageia would finally make confusing and conflicting third party repos (like Mandriva has) obsolete. If the problem is only for hosting i'm sure we can find a solution. But as i said before (like others), you should first try to build it locally, check it's working, intergrate nicely for menu,kdm then we'll start thinking about providing an alternative repository. Regards, -- Balcaen John
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On Mar 23, 2011, at 16:24, Tux99 tux99-...@uridium.org wrote: I certainly don't have the web space and bandwidth resources for a repository and frankly I joined Mageia as a packager precisely because I thought Mageia would finally make confusing and conflicting third party repos (like Mandriva has) obsolete. We can host repositories for you, if Mageia is unwilling to accept them - you could make a kde3 rpm that adds the necessary sources to use. Or, Mageia could make an official kde3 repository that is disabled by default but can be enabled on installer/rpmdrake. I'm not the expert at this, though :-/ that's mageia dev decisions.
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 10:09 PM, Robert Xu rob...@gmail.com wrote: On Mar 23, 2011, at 16:24, Tux99 tux99-...@uridium.org wrote: I certainly don't have the web space and bandwidth resources for a repository and frankly I joined Mageia as a packager precisely because I thought Mageia would finally make confusing and conflicting third party repos (like Mandriva has) obsolete. We can host repositories for you, if Mageia is unwilling to accept them - you could make a kde3 rpm that adds the necessary sources to use. Or, Mageia could make an official kde3 repository that is disabled by default but can be enabled on installer/rpmdrake. I'm not the expert at this, though :-/ that's mageia dev decisions. no a special repo hosted by mageia is not a good idea, we will not start to do repo for all that way. This need to be external, independant repository. If you can host it this would be perfect.
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Dexter Morgan dmorga...@gmail.com writes: I certainly don't have the web space and bandwidth resources for a repository and frankly I joined Mageia as a packager precisely because I thought Mageia would finally make confusing and conflicting third party repos (like Mandriva has) obsolete. We can host repositories for you, if Mageia is unwilling to accept them - you could make a kde3 rpm that adds the necessary sources to use. Or, Mageia could make an official kde3 repository that is disabled by default but can be enabled on installer/rpmdrake. I'm not the expert at this, though :-/ that's mageia dev decisions. no a special repo hosted by mageia is not a good idea, we will not start to do repo for all that way. This need to be external, independant repository. If you can host it this would be perfect. This would be a mess, like previously with Mandriva and its few third-party repositories with various quality level, where the distro packaging policy can't be enforced. This is bad for end-users. Why not include TrinityDE in Mageia repos? If not conflicting with KDE4, not having similar provides, and not even installed by default, it seems ok to include it in the distro. -- Olivier Blin - blino
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Quote: Balcaen John wrote on Wed, 23 March 2011 22:05 But as i said before (like others), you should first try to build it locally, check it's working, intergrate nicely for menu,kdm then we'll start thinking about providing an alternative repository. It goes without saying that I would first build everything locally and test it, I always do that with every package I work on. But like I said, I think a separate/third party repo is a very bad idea, the whole point of Mageia was that (unlike with Mandriva) finally all contributors could join their efforts rather than having separate third party repos all over the place. If now this is no longer the case then I don't really see the point in participating in Mageia as packager. -- Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
Le mercredi 23 mars 2011 à 17:30 -0400, Robert Xu a écrit : On Mar 23, 2011, at 17:28, Dexter Morgan dmorga...@gmail.com wrote: we will face too many pbs simple question: we provide k3b ( kde apps ) trinity provide k3b ( kde3 apps ) Uh, no, k3b-trinity or k3b-kde3 And for configuration path, various paths in /usr/ etc ? Library name too. files are similar ( or named the same ), how users will distinguish No.. That's the purpose of /opt/kde3 /opt is in no way clean packaging. This is a violation of fhs ( http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#OPTADDONAPPLICATIONSOFTWAREPACKAGES ), and a rpmlint error ( dir-or-file-in-opt ). A rpm should place stuff in /usr, unless there is a good reason. the version it wants? how to deal with conflicts ? What conflicts? We're installing in a seperate prefix. Also, the RPM requires, provides, conflicts, etc have long been fixed, no? The whole conflicts/provides/requires were likely cleaned from our rpms, and if they are not, they should be since a regular desktop environnement should not need such provisions. We do not had conflict between gnome and kde, or lxde and xfce, so I see no reason to add them for kde and tde. They were the cause of major headaches in the past, so if a package is added, it must be clean before being uploaded. -- Michael Scherer
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On Wednesday 23 March 2011 18:29:09, Tux99 wrote: [...] It goes without saying that I would first build everything locally and test it, I always do that with every package I work on. Nice to hear ;o) But like I said, I think a separate/third party repo is a very bad idea, the whole point of Mageia was that (unlike with Mandriva) finally all contributors could join their efforts rather than having separate third party repos all over the place. The idea of an alternative repository was to test it correctly without messing with KDE4. Also the second question is who is going to maintain Qt3 ? Is there a fork maintain by TDE maintainer ? (i'm not sure it's still maintained by Nokia :/ ) If now this is no longer the case then I don't really see the point in participating in Mageia as packager. Hum ? The only reason to get a mageia was only to import TDE not because we're a funny team ? -- Balcaen John
Re: [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)
On 23 March 2011 09:49, Tux99 tux99-...@uridium.org wrote: I noticed there is no qt-devel rpm in mageia. I looked into this further and noticed the following comment in the changelog of qt3: Revision 45543 - (view) (download) (annotate) - [select for diffs] Modified Mon Jan 31 23:32:27 2011 UTC (7 weeks, 1 day ago) by stewb Original Path: cauldron/qt3/current/SPECS/qt3.spec File length: 12804 byte(s) Diff to previous 45436 qt3 is blacklisted, build a stripped down version with no -devel (for LSB) http://svnweb.mageia.org/packages/cauldron/qt3/releases/3.3.8b/24.mga1/SPEC S/qt3.spec?view=log Can we please reenable the qt3-devel package as it's required to build the TrinityDE (www.trinitydesktop.org) Trinitydesktop is being ported to QT4 but current versions still rely on QT3 so dropping qt3-devel is premature. Thanks. We shouldn't under any circumstances add kde3 in the repos, fork or not. Users see a package in the repos and they expect it to be maintained, this will not be the case, we can't support KDE4 and KDE3 at the same time. Past experience tells us this is a major hassle/pain, and we shouldn't have to go back to that murky situation. Also there shouldn't be any qt3 dependant packages in the repos; the only and sole reason qt3 is in the Mageia repos is that stewbintn said he needs it for some LSB stuff, but nothing is built with qt3-devel as BR AFAIK and nothing should be. -- Ahmad Samir
