Re: [Mailman-Users] newbie question

[Brad Knowles]

At 6:57 PM -0800 2005-01-21, JC Dill wrote:
 Also consider if your list will need more than one single moderator,
 and remember to set new members to moderated status by default - it's
 *much* better to change them to unmoderated after you see that they
 have clue than to have to set them to moderated after they have posted
 one or more "Hey, that's cool!" posts back to the whole list.
	One other note -- watch your maximum message size that you allow 
to be posted to the list, as well as the attachments and MIME 
bodypart types.

	If you have a list of 250 company employees, and some moron in 
marketing sends a 50MB PowerPoint presentation to the 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list, that works out to about 12GB of 
disk storage that you have to suddenly find to store all 250 copies 
of that 50MB attachment, and a hell of a lot of disk I/O to write all 
that out at once.

	I worked at a local ISP that had a mail server for 250,000 
customers that was completely nuked in this way by one of our own 
marketing dweebs, and the machine only had something like 8GB of disk 
space free.  The entire mail server was down for hours as I tried to 
clean things up and to purge all the bogus copies of that 
presentation.

	You can imagine how upset all the 250,000 customers were that the 
mail server was down.

Trust me, you don't want to have this happen to you.
--
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
  SAGE member since 1995.  See  for more info.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] newbie question

[Mark Sapiro]

C. Jon Hinkle wrote:
>
>In any event, I can see from the List Admin manual that I can set up
>moderators and they would have full rights and set the rest as users and
>make their replies be moderated, but having 30 moderators seems
>unwieldy.  For instance, who would actually moderate the postings from
>the 110?

This is a bit confusing and perhaps not well documented. The term
'moderator' is not really well defined. Putting a persons e-mail
address in the list's 'moderator' field only means that that person is
notified when posts are waiting moderator approval. Generally, only a
few people would be listed as owner or moderator. What enables a
person to actually approve posts is knowledge of the list's moderator
password. This is what actually enables a moderator to log in and
perform moderator actions.

Again, designating an address as a 'mdoerator' doesn't by itself confer
any rights. What you want is the 30 to be unmoderated and the 110 to
be moderated. Then any of the 30 can post without moderator approval.
Posts from the 110 have to be approved by someone who knows the list
admin or the list moderator password. The difference is the moderator
password only allows moderator actions. The admin password allows that
plus admin actions like mass subscribing and changing list settings.

>If I set first_strip_reply_to to YES and then set reply_goes_to_List to
>POSTER, the reply would go to the original poster, but not to the entire
>list?  Is that different than setting first_strip_reply_to to NO and
>having the original reply-to be in force?

Yes it's different and setting first_strip_reply_to to NO is better.
This way if the poster has set a Reply-To: which is different from her
From:, it won't be stripped and lost. In general, the only time you
might want first_strip_reply_to to be Yes is when you are setting
reply_goes_to_list to List.

>In either instance, how do I account for worthwhile replies that would
>be beneficial for the entire list to see?

The person replying decides by choosing 'reply' to reply to the poster
or 'reply all' or 'group reply' to reply to the poster and to the list.

>Am I taking the wrong tack here?  Is this better done with something
>like default_member_moderation?  I could set the flag to off for the 30
>and on for the rest and then set the action to Hold.  Then, if the
>posting/reply was worth seeing on the list, it could be approved by a
>single moderator, and if not then it gets rejected and the poster gets a
>notice.

default_member_moderation only determines whether new subscribers have
their moderation bit on to begin with or not. It has no effect on
existing subscribers. It is a list setting, not a per member setting.
The setting you want is the moderation bit per user as I indicated
above.

--
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] newbie question

[JC Dill]

C. Jon Hinkle wrote:
I have been "selected" to set up a Mailman system to communicate with
roughly 140 users.  I have exactly zero experience with this kind of
endevor, although I am not totally techno-challenged.
I need to set about 30 of the users to be able to post and reply at
will.  The rest should be able to post and reply, but with some limits. 
For instance, if someone posts something useful, we don't want 130
postings back to the list saying "Wow!  That's cool!"  Given the
user-level of many of the 110 with limited rights, such a scenario is
well within the realm of possiblity.  These are the same people who
reply to a Department-wide announcement by hitting the "Reply All"
button.

In any event, I can see from the List Admin manual that I can set up
moderators and they would have full rights and set the rest as users and
make their replies be moderated, but having 30 moderators seems
unwieldy.  For instance, who would actually moderate the postings from
the 110?
 

I would set the list up like this:
General options:
   strip reply-to:   yes
   reply goes to:   poster
   list moderator email addresses:  add 2 or 3 moderators here
Privacy options:
  Sender filters:
  By default, should new list member postings be moderated?:   yes
  List of non-member addresses whose postings should be 
automatically accepted.:  Add any additional "always accept" addresses 
(if any of your 30 "full rights" members may be occasionally sending 
from alternate addresses) here.

When you add your 110 members, set them all to moderated except for your 
30 members who should have "full rights", they will be set to 
unmoderated status.  You could do this in 2 batches, set the list so 
that new members are not moderated and add your 30 "full rights" 
members, then set your list so that new members are moderated and add 
the remaining members.  Then the new members going forward will also be 
set to moderated by default, and you can unmoderate them as needed.

If I set first_strip_reply_to to YES and then set reply_goes_to_List to
POSTER, the reply would go to the original poster, but not to the entire
list?  Is that different than setting first_strip_reply_to to NO and
having the original reply-to be in force?
 

I can set my reply-to with the list address (as I have in this email).  
When mailman doesn't strip the reply-to (and it doesn't on this list) 
replies go back to the list instead of to the poster.  Of course, your 
typical "Wow! That's cool!" user isn't going to know how to do that.

In either instance, how do I account for worthwhile replies that would
be beneficial for the entire list to see?
 

You need several moderators who can approve the held messages in a 
timely manner.  I help moderate several lists (mailman-users is one of 
them :-) and have found that you need three or more people who check 
email several times a day to keep the moderated posts from piling up and 
to ensure that they get approved and posted (or rejected) in a timely 
manner.  Also remember that people get busy, take vacations, etc. so any 
list needs *at least* two moderators if you want to ensure that held 
messages are processed promptly.

Am I taking the wrong tack here?  Is this better done with something
like default_member_moderation?  I could set the flag to off for the 30
and on for the rest and then set the action to Hold. 

Bingo.
Then, if the
posting/reply was worth seeing on the list, it could be approved by a
single moderator, and if not then it gets rejected and the poster gets a
notice.
 

Also consider if your list will need more than one single moderator, and 
remember to set new members to moderated status by default - it's *much* 
better to change them to unmoderated after you see that they have clue 
than to have to set them to moderated after they have posted one or more 
"Hey, that's cool!" posts back to the whole list.

jc
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[Mailman-Users] Get lists of members subscribed to configured topics?

[Caitlin Burke]

I'm having trouble figuring out how much information I can get about 
topic selections. Can I get a count of all the members of a list that 
have selected a particular topic, set in the Topics page? I am using 
version 2.1.5, provided by my web/mail host (I did not install it 
myself).

Thanks!
Caitlin Burke
www.marmoset.com
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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailing list set up

[Brad Knowles]

At 7:09 PM -0600 2005-01-21, Janie Ziegler wrote:
 I received the directions from the previous webmaster for our club.
 I am new at this, but when I tried to get into the list it said we were
 non existent.
 I cannot find the link to "Membership Management" so that I can set this up.
	You're not giving us a whole lot of detail here.  Can you take a 
look at 
 
and 
 
and come back with more information regarding the precise nature of 
the problem?

--
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
  SAGE member since 1995.  See  for more info.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] aliases

[Brad Knowles]

At 2:29 PM -0500 2005-01-21, William Kerber wrote:
 I have set up an aliases on Mac OS X and now mailman isn't working
 can somebody provide me with help?
	You haven't given us a whole lot of detail here.  Please take a 
look at 
, 
, 
and since you're using MacOS X, you need to also take a look at 
.

	Don't get me wrong -- I love MacOS X, and use it myself on a 
daily basis.  But I don't try to use Mailman with MacOS X, and if I 
did, I'd make sure to build my own version from source.

--
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
  SAGE member since 1995.  See  for more info.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] newbie question

[Brad Knowles]

At 4:27 PM -0600 2005-01-20, C. Jon Hinkle wrote:
 In either instance, how do I account for worthwhile replies that would
 be beneficial for the entire list to see?
	Generally speaking, munging the Reply-To: header is considered to 
be a bad idea -- See 
.

	That said, for certain types of lists, it may make sense to do 
this sort of thing.  Lists where that is more appropriate tend to be 
ones that are run internally to an organization, and where you can 
make an across-the-board decision like this and do so with the 
approval of management.

 Am I taking the wrong tack here?  Is this better done with something
 like default_member_moderation?  I could set the flag to off for the 30
 and on for the rest and then set the action to Hold.  Then, if the
 posting/reply was worth seeing on the list, it could be approved by a
 single moderator, and if not then it gets rejected and the poster gets a
 notice.
	That's the path I would be inclined to take.  You can choose 
which people get their moderation bit turned off, so that they can 
post directly.  Everyone else gets moderated, and you have a small 
team of people who do the work of eliminating the wheat from the 
chaff.

--
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
  SAGE member since 1995.  See  for more info.
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[Mailman-Users] aliases

[William Kerber]

I have set up an aliases on Mac OS X and now mailman isn't working can 
somebody provide me with help?

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[Mailman-Users] mailiman -- add_members invite option

[Ramasamy, Sudhakar]

 
I was wondering if the add_members command in mailman has a command-line
invite option or if anyone might have a hack for it.
 
Thanks in advance
 
-sud
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[Mailman-Users] mailing list set up

[Janie Ziegler]

I am suppose to set up a list for stlmotc (Greater St. Louis Mothers of Twins 
Club).
I received the directions from the previous webmaster for our club.
I am new at this, but when I tried to get into the list it said we were non 
existent.
I cannot find the link to "Membership Management" so that I can set this up.
Can you help me?

Janie Ziegler
Webmaster for STLMOTC
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[Mailman-Users] newbie question

[C. Jon Hinkle]

I have been "selected" to set up a Mailman system to communicate with
roughly 140 users.  I have exactly zero experience with this kind of
endevor, although I am not totally techno-challenged.

I need to set about 30 of the users to be able to post and reply at
will.  The rest should be able to post and reply, but with some limits. 
For instance, if someone posts something useful, we don't want 130
postings back to the list saying "Wow!  That's cool!"  Given the
user-level of many of the 110 with limited rights, such a scenario is
well within the realm of possiblity.  These are the same people who
reply to a Department-wide announcement by hitting the "Reply All"
button.

In any event, I can see from the List Admin manual that I can set up
moderators and they would have full rights and set the rest as users and
make their replies be moderated, but having 30 moderators seems
unwieldy.  For instance, who would actually moderate the postings from
the 110?

If I set first_strip_reply_to to YES and then set reply_goes_to_List to
POSTER, the reply would go to the original poster, but not to the entire
list?  Is that different than setting first_strip_reply_to to NO and
having the original reply-to be in force?

In either instance, how do I account for worthwhile replies that would
be beneficial for the entire list to see?

Am I taking the wrong tack here?  Is this better done with something
like default_member_moderation?  I could set the flag to off for the 30
and on for the rest and then set the action to Hold.  Then, if the
posting/reply was worth seeing on the list, it could be approved by a
single moderator, and if not then it gets rejected and the poster gets a
notice.

If this seems disjointed, it is because I'm making it up as I go along.
 Any guidance you can offer is appreciated.

TIA, CJon

CONFIDENTIALITY STATEMENT
This electronic communication is from the Missouri Department of Health
and Senior Services and is confidential, privileged and intended only
for the use of the recipient named above. If you are not the intended
recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering this
information to the intended recipient, unauthorized disclosure, copying,
distribution or use of the contents of this transmission is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify
the sender immediately at the following email address [EMAIL PROTECTED]
or by calling (816) 632-7276. Thank you.

C. Jon Hinkle, Senior Epidemiology Specialist
Division of Environmental Health and Communicable Disease Prevention
Mo. Department of Health and Senior Svcs.
207 E. McElwain
Cameron, Missouri 64429-1395
Phone: (816) 632-7276
Fax: (816) 632-1636 

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[Mailman-Users] Re: RSS feeds from mailing lists

[David Gibbs]

Diana Kirk wrote:
I was wondering today about configuring an RSS feed from the mailing 
list archives. Is that something anyone is doing? Is that doable at 
all? Am I on the entirely wrong track to provide RSS feeds of the 
various lists' mail?
I've got MHonArc generating RSS feeds for my mailing lists.
It's based on the config file that www.mail-archive.com uses.
Contact me privately and I'll send you the file.
david
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[Mailman-Users] RSS feeds from mailing lists

[Diana Kirk]

I was wondering today about configuring an RSS feed from the mailing 
list archives. Is that something anyone is doing? Is that doable at 
all? Am I on the entirely wrong track to provide RSS feeds of the 
various lists' mail?

Thanks for any input on this,
Diana
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Re: [Mailman-Users] post not logged as 'posted' but appearsin archives

[Mark Sapiro]

Anne Ramey wrote:

>(1) what do the failures mean on a posting log like this:
>
>Jan 21 13:58:38 2005 (1967) post to nc_museum from 
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] , size=20128, 3 failures

It is a count of the number of addresses (recipients) that were refused
by the SMTP server.  See the definition of SMTP_LOG_REFUSED in
Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py, the code in SMTPDirect.py and the Python
smtplib module documentation at
http://www.python.org/doc/2.1.3/lib/module-smtplib.html

>
>(2) Is there any way to tell what part of a mailing went and what part 
>didn't if the post occurs in archives, but never is "posted" --ie never 
>finishes sending...???

The above message is instead of the successful post message. It means
in this case that the whole mailing went but 3 recipients were
refused. If you haven't changed SMTP_LOG_EACH_FAILURE in mm_cfg.py,
the 3 failures should be logged in Mailman's smtp-failure log.

If there is no entry at all in the post log, I don't know what's going
on.

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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] post not logged as 'posted' but appears in archives

[Anne Ramey]

(1) what do the failures mean on a posting log like this:
Jan 21 13:58:38 2005 (1967) post to nc_museum from 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] , size=20128, 3 failures

(2) Is there any way to tell what part of a mailing went and what part 
didn't if the post occurs in archives, but never is "posted" --ie never 
finishes sending...???

(3) does anyone know why incming lookups for aliases might affect 
outgoing mail?

Anne
Anne Ramey wrote:
I finally found some errors, in the syslog.
 postfix/smtpd[10144]: warning: connect to mysql server localhost: Too 
many connections

This was trying to resolve aliases, etc and running into too many 
connections.  I can understand how that may interfere with bounce 
processing, but would it interfere with the sending of the list?  How 
can I tell what's been sent and what hasn't ?

Anne Ramey
Anne Ramey wrote:
I have a couple of messages posted to a list (moderated list, sent 
weekly) that appear in the lists archives, but not in the post log for 
mailman.  The weeks before that they appear like this:

Jan 06 14:03:41 2005 (1967) post to tn_sale from 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], size=16694, 3 failures

Always with 3 failures.  Then last week, the 13th there are no errors 
anywhere, but no posted log.  Also, their number of out-of-office and 
bounces seem very low.  They are concerned that it never finished 
sending.  They sent another today--again, no posted message.  I did 
not receive todays yet, but it was sent around 11 this morning...and 
there doesn't seem to be anything in the outgoing queue.  The server 
is not acting like mailman is busy--I'm not seeing python tasks 
popping up frequently, like I do when it's sending usually. What else 
can I check?  Has this happened to anyone else?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] It happened again: qrunners stopped on their own.

[José Zapata]

No, I don't think so... the qrunners stopped exactly 1 day after they were 
started.
  - Original Message - 
  From: John Dennis 
  To: 'Larry Stone' ; 'Mailman' 
  Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 11:43 AM
  Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] It happened again: qrunners stopped on their own.


  > Stopped exactly after one day. I didn't catch it before. 
  > What could be happening?

  By any chance did they stop at the same time one of the mailman cron jobs
  ran?


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Bulk Mailing via Mailman

[Mark Sapiro]

Steve Vaught wrote:

>I'm trying to configure mailman to send messages to subscribers, allow 
>them to review archived messages, and unsubscribe if need be. But i 
>don't what my subscribers to post any messages. Is this possible?

Yes. See
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
article 3.11

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Can't see old lists on admin nor listinfo page ....

[Mark Sapiro]

Nicholas Anderson wrote:
>
>2) i copied archive dirs and lists dirs to my new installation 
>directory, and it seems to work fine, but when i go to the admin or 
>listinfo page i cant see any of them ...
>they are all set as advertised  but i cant see them  
>when i create new lists, they (those new lists) appear ...
>If i use the full path to the old lists in the browser ( like 
>http://localhost/mailman/admin/list-name )   it works, but how will i 
>know list-name as i have more than 100 lists?? :-)


This is covered somewhat in the FAQ at
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp,
in particular, the part about existing vs. new lists and fix_url.py.

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RE: [Mailman-Users] It happened again: qrunners stopped on their own.

[John Dennis]

> Stopped exactly after one day. I didn't catch it before. 
> What could be happening?

By any chance did they stop at the same time one of the mailman cron jobs
ran?


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[Mailman-Users] Bulk Mailing via Mailman

[Steve Vaught]

I'm trying to configure mailman to send messages to subscribers, allow 
them to review archived messages, and unsubscribe if need be. But i 
don't what my subscribers to post any messages. Is this possible?
--
Steve

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[Mailman-Users] Can't see old lists on admin nor listinfo page ....

[Nicholas Anderson]

Hi all,
i have an installation of MM version 2.1 in an FreeBSD server.
I'm changing its OS to Slackware.
I downloaded de 2.1.5 version of mailman an installed it from the 
beggining   (./configure --with-my-options , make , make install )
It's working fine when i create newlists and add new users and so on 

My problem is:
1) Is there any way to import those lists that i have on the FreeBSD 
machine ???

2) i copied archive dirs and lists dirs to my new installation 
directory, and it seems to work fine, but when i go to the admin or 
listinfo page i cant see any of them ...
they are all set as advertised  but i cant see them  
when i create new lists, they (those new lists) appear ...
If i use the full path to the old lists in the browser ( like 
http://localhost/mailman/admin/list-name )   it works, but how will i 
know list-name as i have more than 100 lists?? :-)

If i had any way to import my old lists, my problem would be resolved ...
I looked for something like this in the manual but i didnt find 
anything. ...

Any idea ??
TIA
Nick


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