Re: [Mailman-Users] error install MM on MAC OS x

[Terry Allen]

Hi again,
I found time to look for the minimal guide I had done:

http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node50.html

Look down towards the bottom of that page & you should be 
able to see it's steps - the steps should also apply to OSX 10.4.x
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Recompiling question.

[Brad Knowles]

At 10:36 PM -0700 2006-04-29, William D. Tallman wrote:

>  What happens if I don't 'install'?

Then the existing code doesn't get replaced.

>  Do the recompiled execuatbles simply
>  remain in the build directory?

Yes.

>  If so, can I then copy them over to
>  /usr/local/mailman/[bin|contrib|cron]?

If you want to do a manual installation process -- essentially 
duplicating the effect of doing a "make install" -- you can certainly 
choose to do that.  But you do need to make sure that you do all the 
necessary steps, and don't leave anything out.  This includes doing a 
"chown" and "chgrp" of the necessary files with the appropriate 
ownership and permissions, etc

Don't skip any necessary steps, otherwise you're likely to be 
left with a non-functional installation.

>  Reason I ask is that a simple
>  recompile wasn't exactly addressed in the UPGRADE text, although I did
>  get that I should shut things down while redoing the binaries.

The problem is that you're thinking of Python as if it were C. 
It's not.  In Python, we replace the source code files, and let 
Python do a recompile on-the-fly, if such is called for.

So, there really aren't any "binaries" that you are replacing. 
You're replacing the source code, then it's up to Python to notice 
that the source code has changed and do its own reload/recompile -- a 
step that only occurs when the program(s) is/are loaded, which is why 
you need to stop and restart Mailman after replacing the source code.


Think of it like Basic.  All you have to worry about is the 
source code, and making sure that the system has properly noticed 
that the source code has changed.

>  Or are there configuration files that will have changed, etc?

Our installation process does not muck around with the mm_cfg.py 
file.  That's all yours.  Once you modify it to suit for your site, 
we don't touch it again.

But we will replace just about everything else, if need be.

This is why we strongly encourage everyone to make all their 
modifications in mm_cfg.py, as opposed to other places -- like 
Defaults.py, which would get replaced in an upgrade.

> All I
>  seem to need to do is reconfigure with " --with-mail-gid=daemon" in
>  order to satisfy Sendmail, or so says the complaint in /var/log/maillog
>  when I started 'mailmanctl'.

That's the first step.  You do need to do the reconfigure. 
Afterwards, you need to re-install with the new source code, based on 
the new configuration.

>  In the end, I could simply blow it all away and start over, but that
>  sounds a bit too much like the necessaries for a popular operating
>  software suite.

Yeah, I don't think this will be necessary.


To be honest, I think you're over-analyzing this situation.  With 
Mailman the upgrade process is almost always as simple as 
"./configure; make install", just as Mark said.

In the cases where the upgrade process is not this simple, people 
like Mark and Tokio work very hard to keep the documentation 
up-to-date with whatever the necessary additional steps are.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Recompiling question.

[William D. Tallman]

On Sat, Apr 29, 2006 at 08:54:41PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> William D. Tallman wrote:
> 
> >Is there a canonical method of recompiling Mailman without losing all
> >the entries and data?
> 
> configure ; make install
> 
> See the UPGRADING document at the top level of the distribution for
> more information.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

What happens if I don't 'install'?  Do the recompiled execuatbles simply
remain in the build directory?  If so, can I then copy them over to
/usr/local/mailman/[bin|contrib|cron]?  Reason I ask is that a simple
recompile wasn't exactly addressed in the UPGRADE text, although I did
get that I should shut things down while redoing the binaries.

Or are there configuration files that will have changed, etc?  All I
seem to need to do is reconfigure with " --with-mail-gid=daemon" in
order to satisfy Sendmail, or so says the complaint in /var/log/maillog
when I started 'mailmanctl'.  There were three messages in
/var/spool/mail/mailman that I'd sent to verify that the incoming mail
got to where it needed to be.  Each one elicited the complaint and they
were not 'bounced'.

In the end, I could simply blow it all away and start over, but that
sounds a bit too much like the necessaries for a popular operating
software suite.

Thanks for responding,

Bill Tallman

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Re: [Mailman-Users] error install MM on MAC OS x

[Dan Phillips]

On Apr 29, 2006, at 10:59 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:
> Either you use the Apple custom management GUI with the
> Apple-modified versions of the old code, or you use the new code
> (with the new features and the security fixes) with the standard
> Mailman web or CLI management interface.

Just to clarify any possible ambiguity in Brad's post:  Apple's  
version can be managed just fine with the standard Mailman web GUI  
and CLI, both of which are vastly superior to Apple's GUI. All one  
needs to do with Apple's interface is check "enable mailing lists" in  
Server Admin app. Unfortunately, as Brad points out, Apple is still  
on Mailman 2.1.5.

Dan


Dan Phillips
Associate Professor
Rudi E. Scheidt School of Music
University of Memphis
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [Mailman-Users] error install MM on MAC OS x

[Brad Knowles]

At 7:48 PM -0700 2006-04-29, Allan Hansen wrote:

>  I agree that the Server Admin interface for Mailman is limited and
>  too buggy to be of serious use. It can, however, allow someone new to the
>  OS set up Mailman lists with not much ado, which was the situation at
>  hand, Brad. Installing Mailman and other attendant server tools (in
>  particular) is not, I believe a newbie's best path. Solutions should
>  be tailored to the problems presented.

The problem is that there are known security holes and other 
problems with the old version that Apple uses as part of their 
customized package, and you can't install the recent binaries on top 
of the old ones and get the Apple custom management GUI with the 
latest code.

Either you use the Apple custom management GUI with the 
Apple-modified versions of the old code, or you use the new code 
(with the new features and the security fixes) with the standard 
Mailman web or CLI management interface.


So, pick what is important for you -- do you want something 
secure where you can get support from all our resources (including 
this list), or do you want something that is easier to manage, but 
for which your only support options are to pay Apple and wait for 
them to get back to you at some point in the distant future?

Keep in mind that Apple is well-known for blowing off their 
Server customers.  They even blow off their own internal Apple 
employees who would like to use Server for their applications.


One of the world's largest Mailman installations runs on MacOS X 
Server machines, but they don't use the Server version of Mailman. 
And they don't depend on getting support from the Server team.  They 
treat it as any other Linux or Unix-like OS that they support 
themselves, where Mailman is installed from our source tarballs.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Recompiling question.

[Mark Sapiro]

William D. Tallman wrote:

>Is there a canonical method of recompiling Mailman without losing all
>the entries and data?

configure ; make install

See the UPGRADING document at the top level of the distribution for
more information.

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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] error install MM on MAC OS x

[Allan Hansen]

At 21:07 -0500 4/29/06, Brad Knowles wrote:
>At 4:24 PM -0700 2006-04-29, Allan Hansen wrote:
>
>>  May I suggest that you get hold of
>>  Mac OS X Server and install that on you server instead. It comes
>>  with Mailman already installed and ready to go. It has a lot of other
>>  tools pre-installed that will be very useful to you. The Mac is
>>  a great platform for servers.
>
>   Using MacOS X Server is not necessarily the best idea if using 
>Mailman is your goal.  See 
> 
>for more information, especially the links at the end.
>
>   It appears that most people who want to use Mailman on MacOS X 
>Server end up ripping out the Apple-supplied custom version and 
>instead installing the standard version from our tarballs.  If you're 
>going to go that route, you might as well do that on MacOS X Client 
>as opposed to spending lots of extra money for MacOS X Server.

I agree that the Server Admin interface for Mailman is limited and
too buggy to be of serious use. It can, however, allow someone new to the
OS set up Mailman lists with not much ado, which was the situation at
hand, Brad. Installing Mailman and other attendant server tools (in
particular) is not, I believe a newbie's best path. Solutions should 
be tailored to the problems presented.

Once Mailman is up and running, the administrator should, of course switch to
web/command line tools. I have (so far) been successful setting up
a workable system that allows my moderators to subscribe and unsubscribe
and set member options. I run some close to 40 lists - granted not
many but plenty to handle anyway.

The server, lastly, does not cost lots of extra money for what you get.
It's well worth it if you don't plan to be a full-time administrator.

Allan
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[Mailman-Users] Recompiling question.

[William D. Tallman]

Is there a canonical method of recompiling Mailman without losing all
the entries and data?

Thanks,

Bill Tallman

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Re: [Mailman-Users] error install MM on MAC OS x

[Brad Knowles]

At 4:24 PM -0700 2006-04-29, Allan Hansen wrote:

>  May I suggest that you get hold of
>  Mac OS X Server and install that on you server instead. It comes
>  with Mailman already installed and ready to go. It has a lot of other
>  tools pre-installed that will be very useful to you. The Mac is
>  a great platform for servers.

Using MacOS X Server is not necessarily the best idea if using 
Mailman is your goal.  See 
 
for more information, especially the links at the end.

It appears that most people who want to use Mailman on MacOS X 
Server end up ripping out the Apple-supplied custom version and 
instead installing the standard version from our tarballs.  If you're 
going to go that route, you might as well do that on MacOS X Client 
as opposed to spending lots of extra money for MacOS X Server.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Message HTML/Plain text. Wish client displayHTML when possible

[Mark Sapiro]

Thomas Carpentier wrote:
>
>Do you know if there's a php script that permits to send commands to mailman ?


See the thread that starts at

for one discussion of invoking the bin/* commands via php.

You can find others with a search like


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Message HTML/Plain text. Wish client display HTML when possible

[Thomas Carpentier]

Thanks all for your explanations. I'll probably go for two lists.

Do you know if there's a php script that permits to send commands to mailman ?

My idea is the following: A page web where we can choose HTML or text 
on registration, like 
http://registration.euro.apple.com/applenews/uk/subscribe/ and an 
update page to modify the choice.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] error install MM on MAC OS x

[Terry Allen]

>Celes,
>
>May I suggest that you get hold of
>Mac OS X Server and install that on you server instead. It comes
>with Mailman already installed and ready to go. It has a lot of other
>tools pre-installed that will be very useful to you. The Mac is
>a great platform for servers.
>
>That all said, you'll likely at some point need to install the
>Developer Tools anyway.
>
>Allan
Hi again,
Mailman installs & works fine on OSX 'client'. Somewhere 
there is aguide I wrote to install it - just can't rememebr where 
right now - I think it is linked off the Mailman site somewhere. If 
the OP can't find it, I'll try to dig it up.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] error install MM on MAC OS x

[Allan Hansen]

Celes,

May I suggest that you get hold of
Mac OS X Server and install that on you server instead. It comes
with Mailman already installed and ready to go. It has a lot of other
tools pre-installed that will be very useful to you. The Mac is
a great platform for servers.

That all said, you'll likely at some point need to install the
Developer Tools anyway.

Allan

At 11:24 +0800 4/26/06, Celes Victoria wrote:
>thank u to reply (^_^)...
>no, i don't see it,.. are u forgot / misspell of
>"afp458.com"  ?
>in there i just not find linked to mac...
>
>so the kind should i install from developer tools is
>FWIW?
>cos i'm newbie for mac os X & i don't wanna get wrong
>to install it
>is  apple.com provide the developer tools on it? & can
>i download & install it?
>
>
>thank you..
>
>> Yes, you must install the Developer Tools. FWIW, if
>> you've already  
>> su'ed to root, there's no need for sudo.
>> 
>> Have you seen the instructions at afp458.com?
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Dan Phillips
>> Associate Professor
>> Rudi E. Scheidt School of Music
>> University of Memphis
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>   
>__ 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Message HTML/Plain text. Wish client display HTML when possible

[John W. Baxter]

On 4/29/06 7:50 AM, "Thomas Carpentier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Sending a message in both  Plain Text and HTML doesn't seem to be a
> solution. Apple mail displays the Plain Text only (as immediate
> alternative). Eudora displays the two parts, plain text and HTML. No
> idea about others programs.

Apple Mail as shipped "prefers" the HTML part.  Using defaults write blah,
blah in Terminal one can (and I have) set Mail to "prefer" plain text.
Either way, the other form can be displaying using Command-] (short for
View-->Message-->Next Alternative).

However, in this case, you control the sending (you are the one who sends to
the newsletter).  You could split the list into two lists, one preferring
plain text and the other preferring HTML, and then send messages with only
the right form to each list.

The Mac-related TidBITS newsletter works that way (with a third alternative
of HTML with article headlines linked to the stories on the web site).

It appears that, using Thunderbird, you would prepare the HTML version of
the newsletter, and send it to the address of the HTML-preferring list,
whose address would be marked in the Thunderbird address book as preferring
HTML mail. Then you would select the message in the sending account's Sent
folder, and use the Message-->Edit Message as New command.  Change the
address to that of the plain text list.

In Thunderbird's Preferences in the Composition tab, on the "Configure text
format behavior" line, click the Send Options... button.  In the upper box,
set the popup to "Convert the message to plain text".

Suggestion:  if you go this route, tune up your Thunderbird settings by
sending to a couple of addresses which are NOT lists, until you get it
right.  With luck, that will help you avoid annoying the list members with
failed tests.

  --John


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Re: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] Sender field

[John W. Baxter]

On 4/29/06 8:00 AM, "Stephen J. Turnbull" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Sender doesn't instruct *conformant* MTAs at all, does it?  AFAIK the
> only thing that a RFC 2821-conforming MTA looks at is the Return-Path
> header, and it's supposed to remove that.

There is no Return-Path: header during transmission of a message. The
Return-Path header is added in the process of delivery.
There is a return path, stated in the MAIL FROM:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> SMTP
command.  (That command *can* have more stuff related to authentication.)
The return path is what should be used as the address of a bounce if a mail
system foolishly accepts a message and then creates a bounce.

Notice that if an MTA rejects a message (or one or more of the recipients of
the message), it is not bouncing or creating a bounce.  It is issuing an
error response...the MTA (or MUA in the case of message submission) that was
trying to send creates a bounce message if appropriate (for message
submission, the MUA notifies the user--or pretends to:  Microsoft by default
hides the notification remarkably well).

While multi-line text associated with the rejection code is provided for,
MUAs are very poor about showing it if a submission is rejected--some show
only the first line; some only the last line.  Even some MTAs "improve" the
text of the rejection.

  --John


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Error checking on bulk subscribe files

[Mark Sapiro]

Jesse Sanford wrote:
>
>I had a user move a list from another provider onto an install on my  
>system yesterday.  Instead of uploading a -delimited file with  
>one email address per line, they uploaded a tab-delimited file with a  
>tab between each address.  As an added factor, they mistakenly had  
>the interface set to send a welcome message.


What Mailman version is this?

Mass subscribe takes the input, splits it into lines and pases each
non-empty line to email.Utils.parseaddr() which returns a tuple
consisting of a real name and an email address.

When I feed parseaddr() a string of tab delimited email addresses (I
only tried 3, but I don't think that 8000 would be different), it
returns a tuple with real name = the null string and email address =
the first address in the string. Thus, I would expect this to
subscribe and notify the first address and drop the rest.


>Interestingly, the effect of this was that no one got subscribed to  
>the list because Mailman read every single address as a null email  
>address with the actual email address quoted.  Mailman then happily  
>proceeded to pass 8,000+ null-addressed welcome messages to my mail  
>server, which decided to ignore the quotes and send all the messages  
>out!


In any case, mass subscribe ultimately calls ApprovedAddMember() (one
member at a time) to add the member and send the notice (to the member
and/or admin). ApprovedAddMember validates the address and if it is
not valid or already a member, it doesn't do the add or send the
notice. In any case, it only sends the notice after successfully
adding the address and logging the fact in the subscribe log.


>Is this a bug or a feature? =)


It may be a bug in an older Mailman. It may be a bug in current
mailman, but if so, in order to reproduce it I need more detail about
the actual input.

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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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[Mailman-Users] Error checking on bulk subscribe files

[Jesse Sanford]

Hi folks,

I'm learning a lot about Mailman all of a sudden.

I had a user move a list from another provider onto an install on my  
system yesterday.  Instead of uploading a -delimited file with  
one email address per line, they uploaded a tab-delimited file with a  
tab between each address.  As an added factor, they mistakenly had  
the interface set to send a welcome message.

Interestingly, the effect of this was that no one got subscribed to  
the list because Mailman read every single address as a null email  
address with the actual email address quoted.  Mailman then happily  
proceeded to pass 8,000+ null-addressed welcome messages to my mail  
server, which decided to ignore the quotes and send all the messages  
out!

Is this a bug or a feature? =)



--
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System Designer, Seedbox Connect

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Re: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] Sender field

[Brad Knowles]

At 12:00 AM +0900 2006-04-30, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>  Brad> If we need something that will be noticed by other MTAs
>  Brad> beyond the envelope sender and the "Return-Path:" &
>  Brad> "Errors-To:" headers, then we're going to have to carefully
>  Brad> think about this.
>
>  What's an Errors-To header?  I can't find it in the usual suspects.

That's the oldest technique for handling bounces.  It has been 
deprecated for a while, but I would be inclined to continue to at 
least provide the appropriate information.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
 Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See .
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Message HTML/Plain text. Wish client display HTML when possible

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

> "Thomas" == Thomas Carpentier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Thomas> Is there something to do, on the mailman side, such that
Thomas> the message is automatically displayed in HTML only (at
Thomas> least at first alternative) when the mail program permits
Thomas> it and the options are enabled and in Plain Text in the
Thomas> other cases?

No.  This is a client-side problem.

Mailman does not currently support this.  In theory you could have a
per-user option to strip HTML in Mailman, but this seems rather
impractical.  There are too many weird things that can happen in
multipart mails.  Also, some people may wish to choose at the time
they read the mail, rather than in their subscription settings.

The only reliable way to handle this is to send both text and HTML as
a multipart/alternative.  That assumes that your members have mail
programs that handle MIME properly, but most common clients do
nowadays.

Thomas> Any suggestion will be welcome.

Make sure that Thunderbird follows the recommendation in RFC 2046, i.e.,
the text/plain version followed by the text/html version.  (I believe
it does, but it may be configurable.)

There are FAQs on mail clients that explain how to configure them to
handle MIME correctly; you might want to post URLs to them for your
members.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Message HTML/Plain text. Wish client display HTMLwhen possible

[Mark Sapiro]

Thomas Carpentier wrote:
>
>One of my lists is a newsletter. I use ThundeBird to write my 
>messages. Some of my membres can (want) HTML and others not.
>
>Sending a message in both  Plain Text and HTML doesn't seem to be a 
>solution.


If you mean Thunderbird's Tools->Options...->Composition->General->Send
Options...->Text Format - Send the message in both plain text and HTML
setting, this sends a message of type multipart/alternative with a
text/plain subpart and a text/html sub-part. This is exactly the right
way to do this.

Assuming your list has content filtering turned off or set to pass all
three of the above types, that multipart/alternative message will be
sent to your list members. What they see is dependant on their own
MUAs and settings thereof.


>Apple mail displays the Plain Text only (as immediate 
>alternative). Eudora displays the two parts, plain text and HTML. No 
>idea about others programs.


Some MUAs allow the user to select whether to display the plain text or
the HTML by default. Some MUAs decide for you - usually picking the
last (most complex) alternative they understand. Some MUAs do not
understand MIME at all.


>Is there something to do, on the mailman side, such that the message 
>is automatically displayed in HTML only (at least at first 
>alternative) when the mail program permits it and the options are 
>enabled and in Plain Text in the other cases?


No. There is nothing you can do in Mailman to do this because it is an
MUA issue, not a message format issue per se. The same thing should be
happening if you sent the same message directly to the recipient and
not through a list.

This is why many people recommend that list mail be plain text only.
That is a format that all MUAs understand.

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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Filtering Email Marked SPAM

[Lawrence Bowie]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> 
>> What is the easist way to globally filter email marked SPAM?
> 
> Assuming you mean in Mailman, use the KNOWN_SPAMMERS list in mm_cfg.py,
> e.g.
> 
> KNOWN_SPAMMERS = [('subject', '^.*spam'), ('x-spam-flag', 'yes')]
> 
> This is a list of tuples of (header, regexp) where header is the name
> of a header and regexp is a pattern to search the contents of the
> header. These are case insensitive. Any match will discard the message.
> 
> But, why not have whatever process marks the message as spam discard it.
> 

Good quesiton ... I like to see some of the SPAM to understand patterns. :)

Thanks Mark,

LDB
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Filtering Email Marked SPAM

[Mark Sapiro]

Lawrence Bowie wrote:

>What is the easist way to globally filter email marked SPAM?

Assuming you mean in Mailman, use the KNOWN_SPAMMERS list in mm_cfg.py,
e.g.

KNOWN_SPAMMERS = [('subject', '^.*spam'), ('x-spam-flag', 'yes')]

This is a list of tuples of (header, regexp) where header is the name
of a header and regexp is a pattern to search the contents of the
header. These are case insensitive. Any match will discard the message.

But, why not have whatever process marks the message as spam discard it.

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[Mailman-Users] Message HTML/Plain text. Wish client display HTML when possible

[Thomas Carpentier]

Hi,

One of my lists is a newsletter. I use ThundeBird to write my 
messages. Some of my membres can (want) HTML and others not.

Sending a message in both  Plain Text and HTML doesn't seem to be a 
solution. Apple mail displays the Plain Text only (as immediate 
alternative). Eudora displays the two parts, plain text and HTML. No 
idea about others programs.

Is there something to do, on the mailman side, such that the message 
is automatically displayed in HTML only (at least at first 
alternative) when the mail program permits it and the options are 
enabled and in Plain Text in the other cases?

Any suggestion will be welcome.


Thomas

P.S version: mailman 2.1.8 running on Mac OS X, Panther 10.3.9
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[Mailman-Users] Filtering Email Marked SPAM

[Lawrence Bowie]

What is the easist way to globally filter email marked SPAM?

Thanks,

LDB
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Can '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' be changed ?

[Mark Sapiro]

Ace Suares wrote:
>
>But unfortunately we already have 
>add_virtualhost('list.domain.com', 'list.domain.com') in place, since the 
>webinterface is at https://list.domain.com and the mail gets handled 
>@list.domain.com

Mailman is just doing what seems to me to be the right thing. You have

add_virtualhost('list.domain.com', 'list.domain.com')

because you want list mail sent to the list.domain.com domain. The
'mailman' address is just another list, so it's address is
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Granted, if you have multiple domains, this gets tricky. There is only
one 'mailman' list and it is the same list for all domains, yet its
address gets displayed on the listinfo overview with the email domain
corresponding to the current URL domain. The reason for this is that
in a virtual hosting environment, you may not want to expose a
different domain name on the listinfo overview page.

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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] Sender field

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

> "Brad" == Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

At 7:50 PM -0400 2006-04-28, Barry Warsaw wrote:

>> Whatever else we decide, I don't agree, or at least, it won't
>> help us.  $3.6.6 says that Resent-* headers are to be added by
>> a user.  It also says that these are purely informational
>> headers, so I don't see how adding them will instruct a
>> receiving MTA usefully.

Sender doesn't instruct *conformant* MTAs at all, does it?  AFAIK the
only thing that a RFC 2821-conforming MTA looks at is the Return-Path
header, and it's supposed to remove that.

So this is purely a matter of pragmatic self-defense against broken
MTAs that do bounce to Sender.

Brad>   Siunce the RFC doesn't specifically talk about "relay
Brad> agents" as separate from "users", I think we could argue
Brad> that Mailman would qualify as a "user" in this context.
Brad> Therefore, the Resent-* headers seem to be most appropriate.

Agreed.  For a number of reasons, I think this information can be
useful.  As I mentioned elsewhere, the Resent-Message-Id field can be
used to supply a UUID that we can trust (eg, for constructing
canonical archive URLs).  Unlike the Received headers, these are
readable by humans who aren't wall-eyed, helpful in tracing delays,
for example.

Brad> If we need something that will be noticed by other MTAs
Brad> beyond the envelope sender and the "Return-Path:" &
Brad> "Errors-To:" headers, then we're going to have to carefully
Brad> think about this.

What's an Errors-To header?  I can't find it in the usual suspects.

But I don't see any particular need for thought.  Conforming Internet
MTAs don't look at message headers, period.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Can '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' be changed ?

[Ace Suares]

Thx,

But unfortunately we already have 
add_virtualhost('list.domain.com', 'list.domain.com') in place, since the 
webinterface is at https://list.domain.com and the mail gets handled 
@list.domain.com

But I'll figure this out, we need to move to 2.1.8 anyway, soon.

Thanx,
Ace

On Friday 21 April 2006 15:33, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Ace Suares wrote:
> >On version 2.1.5, on the listinfo page, an email adres 
> > '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' is mentioned. We have a situation where our clients
> > work with mailinglists on 'lists.domain' but receive their mail at
> > 'domain'.
> >
> >So, instead of having the listinfo page list '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> > we would like it to display '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' but we can not find
> > a way how to do that. Can you help !?
>
> The domain portion of this address depends in various ways on what's in
> mm_cfg.py and perhaps Defaults.py and possibly on what version of
> Mailman you are running (there was an error in this area not corrected
> until 2.1.8).
>
> It is complicated to explain all the possibilities, so see the
> definitions of get_domain() and get_site_email() in Mailman/Utils.py
>
> Basically, if you have VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = On (the default) and you
> access the listinfo page at http://list.domain.com/mailman.listinfo
> and you have add_virtualhost('list.domain.com', 'domain.com') in
> mm_cfg.py (or if these are the DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
> values), you should see what you want.




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