[Mailman-Users] Uncaught bounce notification: Why this message , I haven't sent Any mails

[kk CHN]

Hello everybody ;

I have  few mailing lists running  on Mailman(I am the list administrator
for these lists ) :  for the last few days I am getting a message regularly
with subject line   like this : Uncaught bounce notification


I havn't sent any mails to the address ("[EMAIL PROTECTED]
")
still   I am receiving the "  Uncaught bounce notification "   email to my
list administration id && got annoyed How can I control this Or whats
happening here with my  mail system ?

Anybody here plese help me why this happened , what I have to take care for
not repeat this again  .

THANKS IN ADVANCE
KK
The content of the message as follows





The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce
format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted
from it.  This mailing list has been configured to send all
unrecognized bounce messages to the list administrator(s).

For more information see:
http://lists.mytestsite.com/mailman/admin/technical/bounce



--

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

A message that you sent has not yet been delivered to one or more of
its recipients after 3 days.

The message has not yet been delivered to the following addresses:

  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>

host boa-graphics.com[192.160.1.1]:
connection to mail exchanger failed with timeout

No action is required on your part. Delivery attempts will continue for
some time, and this warning may be repeated at intervals if the message
remains undelivered. Eventually the mail delivery software will give up,
and when that happens, the message will be returned to you.

--- The header of the original message is following. ---

Received-SPF: none (mxeu22: 203.189.25.12 is neither permitted nor
denied by domain of mysite.com) client-ip=203.189.25.12;
[EMAIL PROTECTED];
helo=mysite.com
;
Received: from mysite.com (mysite.com [203.189.25.12])
by mx.kundenserver.de (node=mxeu22) with ESMTP (Nemesis)
id 0MKr6C-1J1inZ3pt2-0003YH for [EMAIL PROTECTED]
;
Mon, 10 Dec 2007 14:35:57 +0100
Received: from mysite.com (mysite.com [203.189.25.12])
by mysite.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E44152EBAF0
for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>;
Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:05:17 +0530 (IST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Your message to technical awaits moderator approval
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:05:16 +0530
Precedence: bulk
X-BeenThere: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
List-Id: "Technical discussions related to MyWork" 
X-List-Administrivia: yes
Sender: [E

Re: [Mailman-Users] List Topics (was: accept_these_nonmembers not working)

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Cyndi Norwitz writes:

 > I do not wish to take over the list with meta-discussion but your
 > comments are completely uncalled for.

Since you misunderstand what I wrote, as well as the consequences of
what you wrote, I have to disagree.

 > When I found this mailing list, it appeared to be a general
 > discussion list for Mailman users.  As I said before, if I was
 > mistaken about the purpose of the list then I hope Mark or another
 > list owner will correct me and guide me to a more appropriate
 > venue.

It *is* the right place.  There is none more appropriate.  If there
were, you would have been told so a week ago.  The problem here is
that you haven't brought all of the relevant information to the table.
That's not your fault, you don't have it.

What is a misguided choice is refusing to "bother" the only people who
can provide that information.  The worst thing that can happen is they
might say "no", right?

 > And, actually, my ISP's prices are not dirt cheap, though they are
 > reasonable.

What I said is they would be more expensive if they were paying for
Mailman.  Let's not kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.  Which
could happen; cf. Brad's post for pointers to *un*reasonable vendors
who distribute Mailman.  As I wrote before, I don't fault anyone for
free riding; to everything there is a season, including paybacks for
free software you have benefitted from.  Their time will surely come,
in its time.

But you can help by asking them to get in touch with Mailman when it's
appropriate.  This would have been a good time.

 > I like them because they're good people.

In which case, they won't mind contributing a few minutes to reading
your threads to make sure there's nothing the Mailman support staff
needs to know, right?

 > FWIW, I also give away countless hours of my time doing work I
 > could be getting paid for.

It's not about money.  It's not about who has paid their dues or
where.  I believe, and have throughout, that when you (you,
personally) have something to contribute to Mailman, you will.  If you
know what it is.

I'm telling you one thing you (and anyone in your situation) can do
right now: save Mark time by getting your ISP's staff involved, at
least to the extent of a CC.  They're the only ones who can say
exactly what those local changes are so they and the Mailman staff can
try to figure out whether they do or don't impact your problems and
solutions.

The work can be done without that information, but it's harder and
more frustrating.  Unnecessarily so, as far as we know until you get
in touch with your ISP.

Regards,
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

[Mailman-Users] Aliases for list...

[Lev Lafayette]

Doubtless trivial but I've missed it in the documentation :-)

Is there a special mailman mechanism to alias lists e.g., I want posts
to [EMAIL PROTECTED] to end up at [EMAIL PROTECTED]

(A workaround for renaming lists that is trivial, rather than
nontrivial)

Regards,


Lev

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

Re: [Mailman-Users] List Topics (was: accept_these_nonmembers not working)

[Brad Knowles]

On 12/16/07, Cyndi Norwitz wrote:

>  When I did a search for a general Mailman support discussion list, I found
>  this one.  If I am wrong about this list's purpose, please tell me!  Is
>  this list mainly for announcing version updates, reporting bugs, and asking
>  for new features?  If so, I'd still stay, because those things interest me.
>  But if there is a better list for the general user "how do I do X?" or
>  "help me troubleshoot Y" questions, let me know and I'll go join it.

In addition to my duties in helping to keep the whole mail system for 
python.org up and running, I am also one of the co-owners/moderators 
of this mailing list, and I am currently the only active 
co-owner/moderator for this list.  No one has explicitly laid out all 
the rules for me as co-owner/moderator, but we have accumulated some 
standard practices over time.

One standard practice is that the core developers should be protected 
from having to answer or participate in any discussions where their 
time could be better spent elsewhere.  Of course, the core developers 
are more than welcome to participate in any discussions that they 
like.  We just try to keep as much stuff off their backs as we can.


Mark is one such core developer.  He's also one of the most prolific 
posters on this mailing list, in part because there are so many 
questions that get asked that I am not able to answer, and so they 
have to fall to someone who knows the code better than I do.  But I 
still try to protect him as much as I can.

Many other questions would have been answered by people who had read 
the appropriate FAQ entries or the archives of the list, although I 
must confess that sometimes people don't know what terms to use when 
searching the FAQ or the archives.


As one of the co-owners/moderators of this list, I would say that 
you're welcome to ask whatever questions on this list that you may 
have regarding the installation, operations, and maintenance of 
Mailman, so long as you can be reasonably sure of a few things:

1.  The problem you're having is not unique to your particular
customized non-standard installation.
2.  The problem you're having is not addressed in the documentation.
3.  The problem you're having is not addressed in the FAQ.
4.  The problem you're having is not discussed in the archives.

Note that #1 applies to OS, distribution, or other specific versions 
of Mailman that have been put together by other parties, including 
Apple, Debian, Red Hat, cPanel, Plesk, etc


If you downloaded and installed Mailman yourself from the source 
tarballs that we provide through the links listed at 
, then you don't have to worry 
about #1.  If you installed Mailman yourself from a binary package, 
then by definition that did not come from one of our official 
sources, and you may have to worry about #1.  If you installed a 
product from some commercial company that incorporates something they 
call "Mailman", then you almost certainly do have to worry about #1.

If you are a user of a service provided by someone else, and the 
service they provide is called "Mailman", then you may or may not 
need to worry about #1, depending on how that service provider 
installed their software.  Until you can be reasonably certain as to 
what types of problems fall into which categories, you should first 
ask your service provider for support on the services they have 
installed and make available to you.

Keep in mind that even if your service provider does have a 
completely bog-standard installation of Mailman, there's lots of site 
or list administrative tasks that you may want/need to do that may 
require direct privileged access to the Mailman installation, and 
therefore your service provider would almost certainly have to do any 
of those tasks for you.


 From what I've been able to gather, your ISP has made at least some 
customizations of their Mailman installation.  Unfortunately, as a 
user, it can be difficult for you to tell what problems you are 
seeing that are a result from their customized installation, and what 
are a result of standard features within Mailman.

-- 
Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team
Co-moderator of mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

Re: [Mailman-Users] List Topics (was: accept_these_nonmembers not working)

[Brad Knowles]

On 12/16/07, Cyndi Norwitz quoted Stephen J. Turnbull:

>>But you'll bother the Mailman developers because they do it for free?
>
>  I do not wish to take over the list with meta-discussion but your comments
>  are completely uncalled for.

IMO, the truth is somewhere between those two points.  Stephen may 
have been a bit harsh, but there's definitely a kernel of reality 
there.

>  When I found this mailing list, it appeared to be a general discussion list
>  for Mailman users.  As I said before, if I was mistaken about the purpose
>  of the list then I hope Mark or another list owner will correct me and
>  guide me to a more appropriate venue.

We have had numerous historical problems with users of software that 
have been more or less heavily customized by other groups (e.g., 
cPanel, Plesk, Apple, etc...), and because of the amount of changes 
that have been made to the code and to the method in which they 
install and administer their customized version, there is relatively 
little we can do to help their users.

If you've got a problem with Plesk's modified version of Mailman, you 
need to go talk to the Plesk guys.  If you've got a problem with 
cPanel's modified version of Mailman, you need to go talk to the 
cPanel guys, although we know from past experience that they're not 
that responsive.  If you've got a problem with Apple's modified 
version of Mailman, then don't even bother to go talk to Apple 
because we know from past experience that no one ever there will ever 
listen to you.

If you've got a problem with the Debian or Red Hat binary packages, 
those respective communities actually have their own support 
resources that you should be able to use for these sorts of things, 
and you should be able to contact their maintainers.


So, now the question becomes how does your ISP fit into this picture?

>  When I
>  can, I do direct them to better places for the information, which is what I
>  hope will happen here, if in fact I have been posting to the wrong place.

This is not necessarily the wrong place for you to be asking your 
questions.  Just keep in mind that we've been burned before by 
several other parties, and when people start talking about 
proprietary versions of Mailman, or non-standard configurations of 
Mailman, we may tend to get a little touchy.

-- 
Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
LinkedIn Profile: 
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

Re: [Mailman-Users] List Topics (was: accept_these_nonmembers not working)

[Cyndi Norwitz]

   From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:26:46 +0900

   Cyndi Norwitz writes:
> On the other hand, bothering the ISP staff isn't what I want to do

   But you'll bother the Mailman developers because they do it for free?

I do not wish to take over the list with meta-discussion but your comments
are completely uncalled for.

When I found this mailing list, it appeared to be a general discussion list
for Mailman users.  As I said before, if I was mistaken about the purpose
of the list then I hope Mark or another list owner will correct me and
guide me to a more appropriate venue.

And, actually, my ISP's prices are not dirt cheap, though they are
reasonable.  I like them because they're good people.

FWIW, I also give away countless hours of my time doing work I could be
getting paid for.  That's what my mailing lists are: support for people
with disabilities.  Even when someone phones me for my business I usually
end up giving them an hour of advice for a $5 sale.  My choice.  When I
can, I do direct them to better places for the information, which is what I
hope will happen here, if in fact I have been posting to the wrong place.

Cyndi

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

[Mailman-Users] List Topics (was: accept_these_nonmembers not working)

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Cyndi Norwitz writes:

 > On the other hand, bothering the ISP staff isn't what I want to do

But you'll bother the Mailman developers because they do it for free?

Think about it a little.  You like your ISP because they don't charge
much, which is because they free ride on the work of projects like
Mailman.  Mailman does not charge for the resources used in
development and support, which is a good thing.  It enables such free
riding, and that is a good thing, too.  Not everybody who would
benefit from using Mailman can afford to return money or hours to the
project immediately.

But those resources are nonetheless real.  Hours spent on email,
debugging, and development of new features.  Mark Sapiro's time is
*very* expensive, despite his generous choice to put a price of zero
on it, because he is a core developer.  Try to encourage your ISP's
staff to participate in the Mailman lists, at least when your problems
at their host are under discussion.  That will beneift everybody.


--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

Re: [Mailman-Users] Implicit destination

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Mark Sapiro writes:
 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 > >
 > >But does Mailman have to treat this as an implicit address?

Mark was generous.  Yes, it does.  Mailman is doing the right thing.
Your user's system is broken.  Just because people rarely die from
misconfigured mail programs doesn't mean they are free from the
ethical obligation to fix them.  A tool under their control is causing
problems for others (specifically you!)  They should fix their tools,
or pay to have them fixed.  Just like a car with bad brake lights.
Sure, AFAIK nobody has died from a misconfigured MUA yet, but it's
basically the same attitude: "Watch out world, here I come!"

 > If this is a significant problem, I think the email library is the
 > place to address it.

If it's that much of a problem, I would suggest configuring the MTA to
reject it, myself.  But I think a better approach is to explain to the
user that her mail is being lost and delayed because it doesn't
conform to the standards that most systems do.  It's not just Rob's
list-serving system where this will happen.

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

[Mailman-Users] List Topics (was: accept_these_nonmembers not working)

[Cyndi Norwitz]

   Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:08:34 -0600
   From: Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

   Mailman was never intended to be used in a service provider environment.
   To the extent it is, the onus of providing all support for the product
   as installed falls upon the service provider.  It's not really fair for
   them to install something and then take a completely hands-off attitude
   towards supporting it.

   You wouldn't buy a car from a dealer who was unwilling to do any repairs
   or warranty work, but who instead forced you to ship the vehicle back to
   the manufacturer every time.  I don't see any difference here.

   We try to be as helpful as we can, but we really shouldn't be the
   support department for every single ISP in the world who wants to
   install our software but who then can't be bothered to provide any local
   support.

Okay, this explains your attitude in previous replies to me.  I just
couldn't figure out why you kept dissing my ISP, who is pretty local
(though spreading out around Calif) so you probably don't even know them.

I love my ISP and I don't say that lightly.  Nor am I implying they've
never pissed me off before.  This is a place where the CEO replies
helpfully to newsgroup posts (that's their prefered customer communication
area, sonic.* usenet groups), even (rare) ones that insult him, a place
where they keep adding new features and functions without raising prices
(completely opposite of my old ISP which was the excellent best.com until
they got bought out by Verio and features started going poof and support
went out the window...or over the ocean).

It is the case though that Mailman isn't one of their top priorities.  Oh,
they maintain it and they have dealt with my more pressing needs.  It's
hardly "hands-off."  When I posted to the usenet group about mass subscribe
not working, they agreed to migrate my subscription lists for me.  When I
had trouble starting new lists, they tracked it down to a bug on their end
and fixed it.  They are responsive.

On the other hand, bothering the ISP staff isn't what I want to do for
general Mailman questions.  Like this issue of accept_these_nonmembers.  Or
questions about setup and features.  These belong in a general discussion.

I have tried very hard to separate out my questions into things that appear
to be local issues and things that are about Mailman in general.  The
former goes to the Sonic group, though it's not well populated there.

When I did a search for a general Mailman support discussion list, I found
this one.  If I am wrong about this list's purpose, please tell me!  Is
this list mainly for announcing version updates, reporting bugs, and asking
for new features?  If so, I'd still stay, because those things interest me.
But if there is a better list for the general user "how do I do X?" or
"help me troubleshoot Y" questions, let me know and I'll go join it.

Cyndi

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

Re: [Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmembers not working

[Mark Sapiro]

Cyndi Norwitz wrote:
>   From: Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>   How about another address in her message. If any address in a From:,
>   Reply-To: or Sender: header or the envelope sender is a list member,
>   the post will be considered to be from that member for purposes of
>   moderation.
>
>Ahhh...I checked her latest post and she has reply-to set to a different
>address.  And that address is indeed subscribed to the list.  Because it
>never was a checkbox option in the moderation section of the admin site, I
>never unchecked the moderation box.  I have unchecked it now from the
>members list.  
>
>I will let you know if it doesn't solve the problem.


I am confident that it will. This is an inconsistency in Mailman.
Mailman sees the Reply-To: is a moderated member and holds the post
for moderation, but admindb only uses the From: [1] to determine what
checkboxes to show you.

The problem here is the first time, admindb showed you the nonmember
filter boxes because the From: was not a member, but that wasn't why
the post was held, so adding the From: to accept_these_nonmembers
didn't do any good.

This is something to be aware of going forward. If the post is held for
"Post to moderated list" and the "Add to one of these sender filters"
option is offered, adding the From: address to a filter isn't going to
work because this is really a post from a moderated member, but
admindb is checking the wrong address.


>   Actually, I think you are using Sonic's Mailman which we've already
>   determined is non-standard at least wrt mass subscribe.
>
>Now, now, I think an ISP disabling mass subscribe for its hundreds
>(thousands?) of users it doesn't know personally is pretty reasonable.
>It's a PITA for responsible list owners like me but there are some
>irresponsible people out there and many of them think nothing of
>subscribing lots of people to mailing lists without their permission.
>After all, most Mailman users install it on their own servers, so obviously
>they trust themselves.  As far as I can tell, the rest of the setup is
>pretty standard.


Don't misunderstand me. I wasn't trying to say anything negative about
Sonic (except maybe they are not complying with the GPL if they
haven't contributed their mods back to the project). I'm only trying
to say that I can only tell you how standard Mailman does (or should)
work. I can't analyze code that I can't see.


[1] The underlying issue here is there are two methods for getting
senders in Mailman's Message class. get_sender() returns the first
address found in From:,  Sender: and envelope_from (or Sender:, From:
and envelope_from if mm_cfg.USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER is true), while
get_senders() returns a list of all addresses in (by default) From:,
envelope_from, Reply-To: and Sender:. Initially, the entire
get_senders() list is checked to find the first address that is a list
member. If found, the post is 'from' a member and that member's
moderate status is checked. If none of the addresses is a member, only
the single get_sender() address is checked against *_these_nonmembers,
and only the single get_sender() address is used by admindb to
determine what checkbox options to show.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

Re: [Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmembers not working

[Brad Knowles]

On 12/16/07, Cyndi Norwitz wrote:

>  Now, now, I think an ISP disabling mass subscribe for its hundreds
>  (thousands?) of users it doesn't know personally is pretty reasonable.

Fair enough, but if they're going to make modifications then it's up 
to them to provide all the necessary support for the product they're 
offering to their customers.

>  After all, most Mailman users install it on their own servers, so obviously
>  they trust themselves.  As far as I can tell, the rest of the setup is
>  pretty standard.

Mailman was never intended to be used in a service provider 
environment.  To the extent it is, the onus of providing all support 
for the product as installed falls upon the service provider.  It's 
not really fair for them to install something and then take a 
completely hands-off attitude towards supporting it.

You wouldn't buy a car from a dealer who was unwilling to do any 
repairs or warranty work, but who instead forced you to ship the 
vehicle back to the manufacturer every time.  I don't see any 
difference here.


We try to be as helpful as we can, but we really shouldn't be the 
support department for every single ISP in the world who wants to 
install our software but who then can't be bothered to provide any 
local support.

-- 
Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
LinkedIn Profile: 
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

Re: [Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmembers not working

[Cyndi Norwitz]

   Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 12:18:45 -0800
   From: Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

   >   Check your membership list to see if she is a moderated member.
   >
   >I just checked and she is not listed as a member under that address.

   How about another address in her message. If any address in a From:,
   Reply-To: or Sender: header or the envelope sender is a list member,
   the post will be considered to be from that member for purposes of
   moderation.

Ahhh...I checked her latest post and she has reply-to set to a different
address.  And that address is indeed subscribed to the list.  Because it
never was a checkbox option in the moderation section of the admin site, I
never unchecked the moderation box.  I have unchecked it now from the
members list.  

I will let you know if it doesn't solve the problem.

   >BTW, I'm using version 2.1.9.

   Actually, I think you are using Sonic's Mailman which we've already
   determined is non-standard at least wrt mass subscribe.

Now, now, I think an ISP disabling mass subscribe for its hundreds
(thousands?) of users it doesn't know personally is pretty reasonable.
It's a PITA for responsible list owners like me but there are some
irresponsible people out there and many of them think nothing of
subscribing lots of people to mailing lists without their permission.
After all, most Mailman users install it on their own servers, so obviously
they trust themselves.  As far as I can tell, the rest of the setup is
pretty standard.

Thanks for helping me track this oddness down.

Cyndi

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman-2.1.9

[Mark Sapiro]

Camelia Botez wrote:

>I installed Using Mailman version 2.0.11 on solaris9 and works fine.
>Now , we are in process to replace our web server with a linux computer
>on which I installed mailman-2.1.9.
>How can I migrate all the mailing lists from the old version into the
>new one


Mailman is very good at updating lists from older versions. All you
need to do to migrate the list itself is move the
lists//config.db files from the old installation to the new.
You need to make sure there is not already a
lists//config.pck or config.pck.last, because if there is,
Mailman won't see the config.db. See
.
Note that in that post, I say the one can run

bin/config_list -i /dev/null listname

to force 'listname' to be converted. Actually, just running
bin/list_lists is sufficient to convert all the old lists after there
config.db files have been installed. Also see the advice in that post
about removing the config.db after the list is converted.


>and how can I use the old aliases build when a new list is
>opened on the new aliases form ?


I'm not sure how your aliases are being generated, but the old aliases
are no good. After you get your lists migrated, you should be able to
run bin/genaliases to create (or at least list) the required aliases.

One final thing is archives. I recommend just moving the
archives/private/.mbox/.mbox files from the old
server, checking them with bin/cleanarch and then building new
archives with bin/arch --wipe.

You want to have Mailman not running (bin/mailmanctl stop) during the
list migration and .mbox move process or you could lose archived
messages if posts are processed after the list exists on the new
server and before the .mbox is moved.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

Re: [Mailman-Users] no dupes across lists?

[Mark Sapiro]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>This is definitely a gmail 'feature' to the extent that you won't see
>your own list posts because they are 'duplicates' of the sent message.


I meant to say "... to the extent that you won't even see your own list
posts ...".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

Re: [Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmembers not working

[Mark Sapiro]

Cyndi Norwitz wrote:

>   From: Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>   Here's where I'm confused (thank you Sonic). The reason "Post to
>   moderated list" says this is a post from a member whose moderate flag
>   is set. That's the only source of that reason.
>
>Unless the wording is slightly different and I'm misremembering, it says
>this also when messages from non-members are being held for moderation (I
>set up the list so that mail from non-members would come to me for
>moderation as opposed to being rejected).


It should say "Post by non-member to a members-only list" in that case.


>   But, in that case, at this point, there should be a "Clear this member's
>   moderate flag" checkbox, so I don't know what's going on.
>
>Well, there should be an option to set auto posting status.  It's there for
>all other non-members.


It will never be there if the user's (lower-cased) address is already
in one of *_these_nonmembers.


>   Check your membership list to see if she is a moderated member.
>
>I just checked and she is not listed as a member under that address.


How about another address in her message. If any address in a From:,
Reply-To: or Sender: header or the envelope sender is a list member,
the post will be considered to be from that member for purposes of
moderation.


>BTW, I'm using version 2.1.9.


Actually, I think you are using Sonic's Mailman which we've already
determined is non-standard at least wrt mass subscribe.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

Re: [Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmembers not working

[Cyndi Norwitz]

   Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 11:27:57 -0800
   From: Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

   Here's where I'm confused (thank you Sonic). The reason "Post to
   moderated list" says this is a post from a member whose moderate flag
   is set. That's the only source of that reason.

Unless the wording is slightly different and I'm misremembering, it says
this also when messages from non-members are being held for moderation (I
set up the list so that mail from non-members would come to me for
moderation as opposed to being rejected).

   But, in that case, at this point, there should be a "Clear this member's
   moderate flag" checkbox, so I don't know what's going on.

Well, there should be an option to set auto posting status.  It's there for
all other non-members.

   Check your membership list to see if she is a moderated member.

I just checked and she is not listed as a member under that address.

BTW, I'm using version 2.1.9.

Thanks,
Cyndi

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

Re: [Mailman-Users] Implicit destination

[Mark Sapiro]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>But does Mailman have to treat this as an implicit address? Of course
>'[EMAIL PROTECTED]' is not literally exactly the same as [EMAIL PROTECTED] , 
>but the
>list address is explicitly included within the quotes. Could a future version 
>of Mailman
>allow for this and avoid treating quoted addresses as implicit destinations?


I don't think Mailman should be in the business of guessing how to
re-parse an email address. As I mentioned in another post in this
thread
(),
the Python email.Utils.parseaddr() function returns the single quotes
as part of the parsed address. If this is a significant problem, I
think the email library is the place to address it.

Also, the issue can be easily avoided by putting the quoted address in
acceptable_aliases.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

Re: [Mailman-Users] no dupes across lists?

[Mark Sapiro]

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Allan Hansen writes:
>
> > That's interesting.
> > 
> > I run Mailman 2.1.5 (Mac OS X 10.4) and have the 'problem' that
> > when someone posts to two lists at a time, I get only one message. I
> > actually do want to get both for archival purposes. If this is not a
> > function of Mailman 2.1.5, I wonder where the other message is
> > cut. :-)
>
>What do you mean by "get"?  I "get" both messages in my system
>mailbox, but because I have duplicate suppression on in my MUA, I only
>"see" one.  The MUA automatically skips any message with a Message-ID
>that it has already seen.
>
>I would assume you've got a similar feature, perhaps not in your MUA
>but in the MDA or MTA.


This is definitely a gmail 'feature' to the extent that you won't see
your own list posts because they are 'duplicates' of the sent message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

Re: [Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmembers not working

[Mark Sapiro]

Cyndi Norwitz wrote:
>
>Since then, every time she posts, her messages still get held for
>moderation.  I have the option to let them go through, which I do, but now
>there is no way to check an option for auto processing.  It's simply
>missing.


Because her address is already in a *_these_nonmembers filter. Assuming
she is in accept_these_nonmembers and not hold_these_nonmembers, her
post is being held for some other reason.

(Actually, that may not be the reason in this case - see below).


>I realize that I could ask her to subscribe with her posting address and
>then disable mail delivery.  But that seems rather roundabout.


She may already be subscribed.


>Note that the address the moderation request thinks she is sending from
>does exactly match the one in accept_these_nonmembers.  And the reason for
>moderation is given as: Post to moderated list.
>
>Here is the moderation information I'm given, with her personal information
>edited:
>
>From: 
>
>Action to take on all these held messages:
>   Defer  Accept   Reject Discard   
>   
> Preserve messages for the site administrator
> Forward messages (individually) to:


Here's where I'm confused (thank you Sonic). The reason "Post to
moderated list" says this is a post from a member whose moderate flag
is set. That's the only source of that reason. But, in that case, at
this point, there should be a "Clear this member's moderate flag"
checkbox, so I don't know what's going on.

Check your membership list to see if she is a moderated member.



>Click on the message number to view the individual message, or you can view
>all messages from 
> 
>[1]  Subject:  
>Size:  5366 bytes
>Reason:Post to moderated list
>Received:  Sun Dec 16 05:26:10 2007

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

[Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmembers not working

[Cyndi Norwitz]

One of the regular posters to my mailing list prefers to post from an
address different from the one where she recieves posts.  The first time
she did this, her post came up for moderation and I clicked on "accept" and
also checked the box to have her posts automatically be accepted.

If I go to my accept_these_nonmembers list, her address is in the box (and
has been for a while).

Since then, every time she posts, her messages still get held for
moderation.  I have the option to let them go through, which I do, but now
there is no way to check an option for auto processing.  It's simply
missing.

I realize that I could ask her to subscribe with her posting address and
then disable mail delivery.  But that seems rather roundabout.  Also, my
ISP doesn't allow mass subscribe (they did migrate my lists for me but I
can't get them to do every single add as it comes up), so my subscriber
would have to do the work and she uses a keyboard with great difficulty.
Not to mention that she isn't the only member who will want to post from a
different address and there are legit non-members who post to my list too.
I'd just like the feature to work.

Note that the address the moderation request thinks she is sending from
does exactly match the one in accept_these_nonmembers.  And the reason for
moderation is given as: Post to moderated list.

Here is the moderation information I'm given, with her personal information
edited:

From: 

Action to take on all these held messages:
   Defer  AcceptReject Discard   
   
 Preserve messages for the site administrator
 Forward messages (individually) to:
 
Click on the message number to view the individual message, or you can view
all messages from 
 
[1]  Subject:   
Size:   5366 bytes
Reason: Post to moderated list
Received:   Sun Dec 16 05:26:10 2007


Thanks for any assistance you all can give.

Cyndi

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

Re: [Mailman-Users] Implicit destination

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

This happens on my Mailman installation every few dozen posts and I've always 
assumed
Mailman is objecting to the quotes.

Your guess about the quotes being inserted by some MS mail software is probably 
right.
Despite asking asked many senders for more information on what they did which 
might have
triggered this behaviour, I've never managed to get a definitive answer. I 
wonder whether
it's something to do with copying and pasting addresses, or specifically 
copying and
pasting them into an address book and then using that.

But does Mailman have to treat this as an implicit address? Of course
'[EMAIL PROTECTED]' is not literally exactly the same as [EMAIL PROTECTED] , 
but the
list address is explicitly included within the quotes. Could a future version 
of Mailman
allow for this and avoid treating quoted addresses as implicit destinations?

Rod

- Original Message -
From: "Steve Burling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mailman Users" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 4:22 PM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implicit destination


> One of our lists has someone post to it whose mail is held, with the error:
>
> Blind carbon copies or other implicit destinations are not allowed. Try
> reposting your message by explicitly including the list address in the
> To: or Cc: fields.
>
> But as near as I can tell, she *is* putting the list address in the To:
> field, it's just been munged (presumably by Micro$oft LookOut) to have
> quotes in funny places.  Here's what the To: field looks like from the
> listname.mbox file (edited to protect the innocent):
>
> To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'>
>
> Are those unnecessary single quotes inside the "<...>" confusing Mailman?
> Or am I missing something really obvious?
>
> --
> Steve Burling
> University of Michigan, ICPSRVoice: +1 734 615.3779
> 330 Packard Street   FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910
> --
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rod%40coate.fsnet.co.uk
>
> Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
>
>


--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

Re: [Mailman-Users] no dupes across lists?

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Allan Hansen writes:

 > That's interesting.
 > 
 > I run Mailman 2.1.5 (Mac OS X 10.4) and have the 'problem' that
 > when someone posts to two lists at a time, I get only one message. I
 > actually do want to get both for archival purposes. If this is not a
 > function of Mailman 2.1.5, I wonder where the other message is
 > cut. :-)

What do you mean by "get"?  I "get" both messages in my system
mailbox, but because I have duplicate suppression on in my MUA, I only
"see" one.  The MUA automatically skips any message with a Message-ID
that it has already seen.

I would assume you've got a similar feature, perhaps not in your MUA
but in the MDA or MTA.

 > 
 > (No need for action from anyone - I was just mumbling aloud).
 > 
 > Allan
 > 
 > At 16:49 -0800 12/14/07, Mark Sapiro wrote:
 > >Gruver, Sandi wrote:
 > >
 > >>Does the 'no dupes' option mean that members will not receive a messages
 > >>sent to more than one list to which they are subscribed?
 > >
 > >
 > >No. It only means that a member will not receive the post from the list
 > >if (s)he in specifically addressed in To: or Cc: of the post.
 > >
 > >If you have lists with duplicate members which are frequently cross
 > >posted, the new sibling lists 'exclude' feature in Mailman 2.1.10 can
 > >be used to avoid these duplicate messages.
 > >
 > >-- 
 > >Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>The highway is for gamblers,
 > >San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
 > 
 > -- 
 > Allan Hansen
 > P.O Box 2423
 > Cypress, CA 90630
 > U.S.A.
 > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 > +1-714-875-8870
 > --
 > Mailman-Users mailing list
 > Mailman-Users@python.org
 > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
 > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
 > Unsubscribe: 
 > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/stephen%40xemacs.org
 > 
 > Security Policy: 
 > http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

Re: [Mailman-Users] no dupes across lists?

[Allan Hansen]

That's interesting.

I run Mailman 2.1.5 (Mac OS X 10.4) and have the 'problem' that when someone 
posts to two lists at a time, I get only one message. I actually do want to get 
both for archival purposes. If this is not a function of Mailman 2.1.5, I 
wonder where the other message is cut. :-)

(No need for action from anyone - I was just mumbling aloud).

Allan

At 16:49 -0800 12/14/07, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>Gruver, Sandi wrote:
>
>>Does the 'no dupes' option mean that members will not receive a messages
>>sent to more than one list to which they are subscribed?
>
>
>No. It only means that a member will not receive the post from the list
>if (s)he in specifically addressed in To: or Cc: of the post.
>
>If you have lists with duplicate members which are frequently cross
>posted, the new sibling lists 'exclude' feature in Mailman 2.1.10 can
>be used to avoid these duplicate messages.
>
>-- 
>Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

-- 
Allan Hansen
P.O Box 2423
Cypress, CA 90630
U.S.A.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
+1-714-875-8870
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

[Mailman-Users] mailman-2.1.9

[Camelia Botez]

I installed Using Mailman version 2.0.11 on solaris9 and works fine.
Now , we are in process to replace our web server with a linux computer
on which I installed mailman-2.1.9.
How can I migrate all the mailing lists from the old version into the
new one and how can I use the old aliases build when a new list is
opened on the new aliases form ?

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp