[Mailman-Users] Re: extracting a lists's setting to move the list to a new domain

[Mark Dale]

> On 09/20/2020 8:35 PM Steven Jones  wrote:
> I cant find anything on extracting a list's settings, owners etc and then 
> using those to create a new list on a new domain.
> 
> Is there a simple operational command to extract and inject?


If you have privileged access you can run the following commands on your server 
to retrieve everything. Your file paths might be different so you'll need to 
adjust accordingly.

***
$ cd ~/
$ sudo -s
$ mkdir LISTNAME-files
$ cd LISTNAME-files
$ /usr/lib/mailman/bin/list_members -f  -r LISTNAME > LISTNAME.regular
$ /usr/lib/mailman/bin/list_members -f  -d LISTNAME > LISTNAME.digest
$ cp /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox 
./LISTNAME.mbox
$ tar -czvf LISTNAME.attachments.tgz  
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/LISTNAME/attachment
$ cp /var/lib/mailman/lists/LISTNAME/config.pck ./LISTNAME.pck
$ cd ../
$ tar -czvf LISTNAME-files.tgz LISTNAME-files
***
Copy LISTNAME-files.tgz to anywhere on the new server and unpack.
Create the new list.
***
Then for the new list, copy the config.pck into place, and also the ".mbox" and 
archive attachments.
***
Fix the URLs with: bin/withlist -l -r fix_url LISTAME -u DOMAINNAME

The lists settings and subscribers are in the config.pck so you shouldn't need 
to do any more.


/Mark
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Post log not being written

[Mark Dale]

==
> > I've just noticed that the mailman/post log isn't being written to. 

==
> This is controlled by Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py settings SMTP_LOG_* which
> specify the log name and message format for these messages. The default
> settings that write to the post log are:
> 
> > # This will only be printed if there were no immediate smtp failures.
> > # Mutually exclusive with SMTP_LOG_REFUSED.
> > SMTP_LOG_SUCCESS = (
> > 'post',
> > 'post to %(listname)s from %(sender)s, size=%(size)d, 
> > message-id=%(msg_message-id)s, success')
> > 
> > # This will only be printed if there were any addresses which encountered an
> > # immediate smtp failure.  Mutually exclusive with SMTP_LOG_SUCCESS.
> > SMTP_LOG_REFUSED = (
> > 'post',
> > 'post to %(listname)s from %(sender)s, size=%(size)d, 
> > message-id=%(msg_message-id)s, %(#refused)d failures')
> 
==

I'm seeing the same in my Default.py (below) and nothing in the mm_cfg.py 
settings that would overide it.

After I posted my email to this list yesterday, I restarted the qrunner 
(mailman/bin/mailmanctl restart) and immediately the post log was getting 
written to.

Today that log file has rotated ("post.1) and the new post log file was not 
being written to -- until I restarted the qrunner again. As said, no problems 
with mail delivery, and the other logs.
 
SMTP_LOG_SUCCESS = (
'post',
'post to %(listname)s from %(sender)s, size=%(size)d, 
message-id=%(msg_message-id)s, success')

SMTP_LOG_REFUSED = (
'post',
'post to %(listname)s from %(sender)s, size=%(size)d, 
message-id=%(msg_message-id)s, %(#refused)d failures')
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[Mailman-Users] Re: extracting a lists's setting to move the list to a new domain

[Mark Sapiro]

On 9/20/20 5:22 PM, Chip Davis wrote:
> 
> So I wrote two Rexx program, one to extract the membership information,
> including all the admin settings available via the web interface.


I neglected to mention the scripts at
 and
 (mirrored at

[Mailman-Users] Re: extracting a lists's setting to move the list to a new domain

[Chip Davis]

As a lowly list admin with a number of cPanel-hosted Mailman2 lists, I 
cannot avail myself of such tools without opening a ticket with my 
ISP.  While they have been very responsive in the past, I don't feel 
that's a generosity of which I should frequently avail myself. Also, I 
wanted to have a backup from which I could recreate any list, as well 
as a tracking process for all changes I make.


So I wrote two Rexx program, one to extract the membership 
information, including all the admin settings available via the web 
interface.  The other program extracts almost all of the list 
configuration settings/values accessible via the admin web interface.  
("Almost all" because some screens have never changed from their 
defaults, and I haven't gotten around to including them.)


All they require is the Regina interpreter and the REXX/CURL function 
library (libcurl), both GPL'd offerings, if anyone is at all interested.


-Chip-

On 9/20/2020 6:38 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

On 9/20/20 1:42 PM, Brian Carpenter wrote:

On 9/20/20 4:35 PM, Steven Jones wrote:

I cant find anything on extracting a list's settings, owners etc and
then using those to create a new list on a new domain.

Is there a simple operational command to extract and inject?


The tool for this is mailman's bin/config_list which can both esport and
import list configuration but not list membership.



Do you have root or admin access to the server? There are tools in the
bin directory that allows for such functions via the command line. You
can retrieve your list roster using the who command via email. Also the
list/listname/config.pck has all that information but again you need to
have root access to the server to retrieve that. Here are some
directions to use the WHO command:


As Brian notes, the email `who` command can be ysed to extract list
membership as can the command line bin/list_members, and either of these
lists can be used as input to bin/add_members or the admin Mass
Subscribe function, but these operations do not preserve user options,
passwords, etc.

The one single way to move everything is to obtain a copy of Mailman's
lists//config.pck file and move it, and maybe also get the
lists archives/private/.mbox/.mbox file and use it
to rebuild the archive.

See  for more info.

All the above assumes the new domain is on a different server. If it is
just a different virtual domain on the same server, see
.



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[Mailman-Users] Re: extracting a lists's setting to move the list to a new domain

[Mark Sapiro]

On 9/20/20 1:42 PM, Brian Carpenter wrote:
> On 9/20/20 4:35 PM, Steven Jones wrote:
>> I cant find anything on extracting a list's settings, owners etc and
>> then using those to create a new list on a new domain.
>>
>> Is there a simple operational command to extract and inject?


The tool for this is mailman's bin/config_list which can both esport and
import list configuration but not list membership.


> Do you have root or admin access to the server? There are tools in the
> bin directory that allows for such functions via the command line. You
> can retrieve your list roster using the who command via email. Also the
> list/listname/config.pck has all that information but again you need to
> have root access to the server to retrieve that. Here are some
> directions to use the WHO command:


As Brian notes, the email `who` command can be ysed to extract list
membership as can the command line bin/list_members, and either of these
lists can be used as input to bin/add_members or the admin Mass
Subscribe function, but these operations do not preserve user options,
passwords, etc.

The one single way to move everything is to obtain a copy of Mailman's
lists//config.pck file and move it, and maybe also get the
lists archives/private/.mbox/.mbox file and use it
to rebuild the archive.

See  for more info.

All the above assumes the new domain is on a different server. If it is
just a different virtual domain on the same server, see
.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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[Mailman-Users] Re: extracting a lists's setting to move the list to a new domain

[Brian Carpenter]

On 9/20/20 4:35 PM, Steven Jones wrote:

I cant find anything on extracting a list's settings, owners etc and then using 
those to create a new list on a new domain.

Is there a simple operational command to extract and inject?


Do you have root or admin access to the server? There are tools in the 
bin directory that allows for such functions via the command line. You 
can retrieve your list roster using the who command via email. Also the 
list/listname/config.pck has all that information but again you need to 
have root access to the server to retrieve that. Here are some 
directions to use the WHO command:



1. Send an e-mail to listname-requ...@yourlistdomain.com. (Replace the 
listname and your listdomain.com with your own list specific information)


2. In the subject line, type “who password”. Do not add the quotes, and 
substitute ‘password’ with your list administrator or moderator password.


The mailman server will reply to the who command with a break down of 
your membership roster between regular (non-digest members) members and 
digest members. It will even include their full name if it was added 
previously to the roster.



--
Brian Carpenter
Harmonylists.com
Emwd.com

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[Mailman-Users] extracting a lists's setting to move the list to a new domain

[Steven Jones]

Hi,

I cant find anything on extracting a list's settings, owners etc and then using 
those to create a new list on a new domain.

Is there a simple operational command to extract and inject?


regards

Steven
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[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman v2.x

[Bill Cole]

On 19 Sep 2020, at 8:39, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:


As far as I know there are already obvious security holes in Python 2
if you need to use TLS, especially on Mac.  Python 2 is not up to
current security recommendations with respect to SSL and TLS versions,
and I suspect not with respect to other basic crypto.  I don't think
it's hard to configure those version exclusions, but it doesn't come
out of the box that way.  And on Mac you've got the mess that is an
Apple-specific TLS API that Python doesn't have a wrapper for last I
heard (it uses an bundled version of OpenSSL instead if you configure
it to support TLS).


That's a pretty obscure edge case.

Most people who use *current* MM2 on Mac do so via Homebrew or MacPorts 
builds, both of which also bring in a current OpenSSL by default.  If 
one insists on building from scratch using the system "openssl," then on 
any recent system it is actually a recent and reasonably safe LibreSSL.




--
Bill Cole
b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
Not For Hire (currently)
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[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman v2.x

[Mark Sapiro]

On 9/20/20 7:40 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> 
> Yes.  That means that the Mailman Cabal enjoys working with me and
> values what I do, and that's all it means.  By the way, I'm not sure
> why you keep mentioning the Mailman Cabal, There Is No Cabal. ;-)


Technically, mailman-cabal is just the name of a mailing list, nothing
more. Officially, the group is the Mailman Steering Committee.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Post log not being written

[Mark Sapiro]

On 9/19/20 4:24 PM, Mark Dale wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've just noticed that the mailman/post log isn't being written to. 

This is controlled by Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py settings SMTP_LOG_* which
specify the log name and message format for these messages. The default
settings that write to the post log are:

> # This will only be printed if there were no immediate smtp failures.
> # Mutually exclusive with SMTP_LOG_REFUSED.
> SMTP_LOG_SUCCESS = (
> 'post',
> 'post to %(listname)s from %(sender)s, size=%(size)d, 
> message-id=%(msg_message-id)s, success')
> 
> # This will only be printed if there were any addresses which encountered an
> # immediate smtp failure.  Mutually exclusive with SMTP_LOG_SUCCESS.
> SMTP_LOG_REFUSED = (
> 'post',
> 'post to %(listname)s from %(sender)s, size=%(size)d, 
> message-id=%(msg_message-id)s, %(#refused)d failures')

What are yours?


-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman v2.x

[Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users]

On Sun, 2020-09-20 at 23:40 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users writes:
> 
> On Sun, 2020-09-20 at 18:23 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> > > I imagine ARC support is something Jim Popovitch would like to have.
> 
> > You imagine wrong.
> 
> OK, so you don't believe in providing features that other users want.


blinking.gif

-Jim P.
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[Mailman-Users] Post log not being written

[Mark Dale]

Hi,

I've just noticed that the mailman/post log isn't being written to. 

Mail is being delivered to the lists okay and the other log files (bounce, 
subscribe, etc) are being written okay.

The permissions and ownership look fine.

-rw-rw-r--  1 list list4297 Sep 19 09:00 bounce
-rw-rw-r--  1 list list6731 Sep 19 19:19 subscribe
-rw-rw-r--  1 list list   0 Sep 19 00:00 post

Mailman 2.1.34 (installed from source) on Debian 10/Postfix.

Any pointers on where I should be looking to fix this greatly appreciated.

/Mark
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[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman v2.x

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users writes:

 > You're on the Mailman Cabal

Yes.  That means that the Mailman Cabal enjoys working with me and
values what I do, and that's all it means.  By the way, I'm not sure
why you keep mentioning the Mailman Cabal, There Is No Cabal. ;-)

 >> I imagine ARC support is something Jim Popovitch would like to have.

 > You imagine wrong.

OK, so you don't believe in providing features that other users want.

 > Let's be realistic, nobody says "I'm gonna ditch my MTA and replace
 > it with Mailman",

True.  What they do is to configure Mailman to perform functions that
we, like everybody else, recommend be implemented in the MTA (such as
spam filtering and ARC).  That is the day-to-day reality of supporting
Mailman.

TINC-ly y'rs

Steve
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[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman v2.x

[Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users]

On Sun, 2020-09-20 at 18:23 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> I wrote:
> 
>  > > >> I'm pretty sure that at least for now I[1] can configure a
>  > > >> system to run Mailman 2 so that none of the above matters
> 
> "None of the above" includes other crypto.
> 
>  > > > I'm pretty sure that's pure FUD.
> 
> I do not agree.  Besides being able to talk SMTP (and some people have
> used it, though I'm sure it's very few nowadays), Mailman 2 talks DNS
> (for DMARC) although I am not sure it can deal with secure DNS (in
> fact, I'm not sure anyone can ;-).  DNS over HTTPS (DOH) is coming,
> which implies TLS.  

You're on the Mailman Cabal and that's what you came up with?!?

> Mailman 3's ARC handler has to do both encryption
> and decryption for ARC and decryption for DKIM, and that would be
> fairly easy to port (I'm pretty sure the underlying libraries are 2/3
> compatible).  (Ports are fair game because we're talking "future", and
> I imagine ARC support is something Jim Popovitch would like to have.)

You imagine wrong. I see ARC as a piece of the delivery phase, Mailman
should sit well before that.  Let's be realistic, nobody says "I'm gonna
ditch my MTA and replace it with Mailman", just like nobody says "I'm
going to process MLM email without a caching DNS resolver".  

> Any secure version of those protocols that Mailman 2 doesn't have
> could Mailman unusable if some important partner decides to require
> it.

> I'm sure I'm missing stuff, too.  So no, it may not be more likely
> than not (given current status of "EOL"), but it's not pure FUD.  And
> if the "reopen Mailman 2 for features" crowd has its way, the
> likelihood goes up IMO (because I don't think they're likely to
> succeed in getting a sufficiently stable port of Mailman 2 to Python
> 3).

Challenge accepted! Gauntlet: If we succeed, I challenge you to retire
immediately.

(You're right Barry, this is fun!)  

-Jim P.


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[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman v2.x

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

I wrote:

 > > >> I'm pretty sure that at least for now I[1] can configure a
 > > >> system to run Mailman 2 so that none of the above matters

"None of the above" includes other crypto.

 > > > I'm pretty sure that's pure FUD.

I do not agree.  Besides being able to talk SMTP (and some people have
used it, though I'm sure it's very few nowadays), Mailman 2 talks DNS
(for DMARC) although I am not sure it can deal with secure DNS (in
fact, I'm not sure anyone can ;-).  DNS over HTTPS (DOH) is coming,
which implies TLS.  Mailman 3's ARC handler has to do both encryption
and decryption for ARC and decryption for DKIM, and that would be
fairly easy to port (I'm pretty sure the underlying libraries are 2/3
compatible).  (Ports are fair game because we're talking "future", and
I imagine ARC support is something Jim Popovitch would like to have.)
Any secure version of those protocols that Mailman 2 doesn't have
could Mailman unusable if some important partner decides to require
it.

I'm sure I'm missing stuff, too.  So no, it may not be more likely
than not (given current status of "EOL"), but it's not pure FUD.  And
if the "reopen Mailman 2 for features" crowd has its way, the
likelihood goes up IMO (because I don't think they're likely to
succeed in getting a sufficiently stable port of Mailman 2 to Python
3).

Steve
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