[Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists and scrubbed attachments

[Rich Winkel]

If someone posts an attachment to an umbrella list, will the
subscribers to the sublists be able to access the umbrella attachment
archive?  Or should umbrella lists never use scrubbing?

Thanks,
Rich

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella Lists & Subject Prefixes

[Mike Peachey]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mike Peachey wrote:
>> I'm using this anyway :-)
>>
>> if msg.has_key('x-no-subject-prefix') and msg.get('x-no-subject-prefix', 
>> '').lower() == 'yes':
> 
> 
> You don't need to test separately for the presence of the header.
> That's what the second argument to msg.get() is for. It is returned
> when the header named in the first argument isn't present, so the
> above can be simplified to
> 
> if msg.get('x-no-subject-prefix', '').lower() == 'yes':
> 
> which is true if and only if there is an 'x-no-subject-prefix' header
> with value 'yes'
> 

Ta.
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__

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Tel: +44 114 281 2655
Fax: +44 114 281 2951
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella Lists & Subject Prefixes

[Mark Sapiro]

Mike Peachey wrote:
>
>I'm using this anyway :-)
>
>if msg.has_key('x-no-subject-prefix') and msg.get('x-no-subject-prefix', 
>'').lower() == 'yes':


You don't need to test separately for the presence of the header.
That's what the second argument to msg.get() is for. It is returned
when the header named in the first argument isn't present, so the
above can be simplified to

if msg.get('x-no-subject-prefix', '').lower() == 'yes':

which is true if and only if there is an 'x-no-subject-prefix' header
with value 'yes'

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella Lists & Subject Prefixes

[Mike Peachey]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mike Peachey wrote:
> 
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> and add two lines after the comment so it becomes
>>>
>>> def prefix_subject(mlist, msg, msgdata):
>>> # Add the subject prefix unless the message is a digest or is being
>>> fast
>>> # tracked (e.g. internally crafted, delivered to a single user such
>>> as the
>>> # list admin).
>>> if msg.get('x-no-archive', None) == None:
>>> return
>>> prefix = mlist.subject_prefix
>>>
>>> If you decide to use a header other than X-No-Archive:, you'd replace
>>> 'x-no-archive' above with the name of that header.
>>>
>> That's just the solution I was looking for, but was being 
>> put off-track by the 1999 solution ...
> 
> 
> Ooops...
> 
> 
> The code above contains a mistake. It will prefix the subject only for
> messages that DO have the X-No-Archive: header. What you want in the
> if test is 
> 
>  if msg.get('x-no-archive', None) <> None:
>  return
> 
> to skip the prefix if the header is not None. Those double negatives
> will get you every time. ;-)
> 

I'm using this anyway :-)

if msg.has_key('x-no-subject-prefix') and msg.get('x-no-subject-prefix', 
'').lower() == 'yes':
-- 
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__

Mike Peachey, IT
Tel: +44 114 281 2655
Fax: +44 114 281 2951
Jennic Ltd, Furnival Street, Sheffield, S1 4QT, UK
Comp Reg No: 3191371 - Registered In England
http://www.jennic.com
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella Lists & Subject Prefixes

[Mark Sapiro]

Mike Peachey wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> 
>> and add two lines after the comment so it becomes
>> 
>> def prefix_subject(mlist, msg, msgdata):
>> # Add the subject prefix unless the message is a digest or is being
>> fast
>> # tracked (e.g. internally crafted, delivered to a single user such
>> as the
>> # list admin).
>> if msg.get('x-no-archive', None) == None:
>> return
>> prefix = mlist.subject_prefix
>> 
>> If you decide to use a header other than X-No-Archive:, you'd replace
>> 'x-no-archive' above with the name of that header.
>> 
>
>That's just the solution I was looking for, but was being 
>put off-track by the 1999 solution ...


Ooops...


The code above contains a mistake. It will prefix the subject only for
messages that DO have the X-No-Archive: header. What you want in the
if test is 

 if msg.get('x-no-archive', None) <> None:
 return

to skip the prefix if the header is not None. Those double negatives
will get you every time. ;-)

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella Lists & Subject Prefixes

[Mike Peachey]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Find the lines (watch for wrapping)
> 
> def prefix_subject(mlist, msg, msgdata):
> # Add the subject prefix unless the message is a digest or is being
> fast
> # tracked (e.g. internally crafted, delivered to a single user such
> as the
> # list admin).
> prefix = mlist.subject_prefix
> 
> and add two lines after the comment so it becomes
> 
> def prefix_subject(mlist, msg, msgdata):
> # Add the subject prefix unless the message is a digest or is being
> fast
> # tracked (e.g. internally crafted, delivered to a single user such
> as the
> # list admin).
> if msg.get('x-no-archive', None) == None:
> return
> prefix = mlist.subject_prefix
> 
> If you decide to use a header other than X-No-Archive:, you'd replace
> 'x-no-archive' above with the name of that header.
> 

Thank you Mark you wonderful genius - what would this list be without 
your input? That's just the solution I was looking for, but was being 
put off-track by the 1999 solution which, for reference, is here:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/1999-September/005936.html
-- 
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__

Mike Peachey, IT
Tel: +44 114 281 2655
Fax: +44 114 281 2951
Jennic Ltd, Furnival Street, Sheffield, S1 4QT, UK
Comp Reg No: 3191371 - Registered In England
http://www.jennic.com
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella Lists & Subject Prefixes

[Mark Sapiro]

Mike Peachey wrote:
>
>I have managed to stop all sub-lists from re-archiving mails that have 
>been through higher lists by adding an X-No-Archive to mails as soon as 
>they're archived so that they only get archived once.
>
>However, Subject Prefixes are giving me a little more hassle.
>
>Currently, if a message goes through the lists "ListA, ListB and ListC" 
>on their way to a recipient, the subject line looks like this:
>
>Subject: [ListC][ListB][ListA] $subject
>
>This is getting to be an annoyance for many within the company and I 
>would like to get it to ONLY add a subject prefix if it's the first list 
>it's been through. So, if you send to ListA, you get [ListA] instead of 
>[ListC][ListB][ListA] and if you send to ListB you get [ListB] instead 
>of [ListC][ListB].
>
>I have spent a lot of time looking for a solution to this one, but the 
>only solution I found is one from 1999 that might or might not work for 
>this version of Mailman, but my lack of Python skill is letting me down 
>in working it out.


If you yould tell us what the 1999 solution is or give a link to it, we
might be able to tell you if it applies.

However, here's a solution. IIRC, you are using a custom handler to add
the X-No-Archive: header to mail sent from a list so it is received by
subsequent lists with the header and not archived. Thus, you already
have the presence of this header to know if a message has been through
a prior list. And, if you're concerned about the possibility of a
message arriving at the first list with an X-No-Archive: header
already there, you could add an X-Mailman-No-Prefix: or some such
header too.

Now given that the message has a header that identifies it as one not
wanting to be prefixed you need to modify
Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py as follows:

Find the lines (watch for wrapping)

def prefix_subject(mlist, msg, msgdata):
# Add the subject prefix unless the message is a digest or is being
fast
# tracked (e.g. internally crafted, delivered to a single user such
as the
# list admin).
prefix = mlist.subject_prefix

and add two lines after the comment so it becomes

def prefix_subject(mlist, msg, msgdata):
# Add the subject prefix unless the message is a digest or is being
fast
# tracked (e.g. internally crafted, delivered to a single user such
as the
# list admin).
if msg.get('x-no-archive', None) == None:
return
prefix = mlist.subject_prefix

If you decide to use a header other than X-No-Archive:, you'd replace
'x-no-archive' above with the name of that header.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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[Mailman-Users] Umbrella Lists & Subject Prefixes

[Mike Peachey]

Mailman Ver: 2.1.5

Our company now exclusively uses Mailman for it's departmental mailing 
lists and it's done through umbrella lists set up in the same way as the 
org chart for the company.

I have managed to stop all sub-lists from re-archiving mails that have 
been through higher lists by adding an X-No-Archive to mails as soon as 
they're archived so that they only get archived once.

However, Subject Prefixes are giving me a little more hassle.

Currently, if a message goes through the lists "ListA, ListB and ListC" 
on their way to a recipient, the subject line looks like this:

Subject: [ListC][ListB][ListA] $subject

This is getting to be an annoyance for many within the company and I 
would like to get it to ONLY add a subject prefix if it's the first list 
it's been through. So, if you send to ListA, you get [ListA] instead of 
[ListC][ListB][ListA] and if you send to ListB you get [ListB] instead 
of [ListC][ListB].

I have spent a lot of time looking for a solution to this one, but the 
only solution I found is one from 1999 that might or might not work for 
this version of Mailman, but my lack of Python skill is letting me down 
in working it out.

Can anyone offer any help on this?

Roll-on Mailman v3!
-- 
Kind Regards,

__

Mike Peachey, IT
Tel: +44 114 281 2655
Fax: +44 114 281 2951
Jennic Ltd, Furnival Street, Sheffield, S1 4QT, UK
Comp Reg No: 3191371 - Registered In England
http://www.jennic.com
__
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists.

[Mark Sapiro]

Lech Karol PawBaszek wrote:
> 
> What i would like is to have "true lists" only at the lowest level. But 
> be able to accept incoming mail at the highest level and not to worry 
> about accepting the same mail on the other lists (if it is not from my 
> company domainname).
> 
> I've tried acceptable_aliases variable, but it doesn't work if the lower 
> level lists doesn't have sender on a member list (which is ok). So i 
> tried to use spam filters and header_filter_rules variable and set one 
> rule matching "announce" at "announce.poland" level with action 
> "accept", but when generic_nonmember_action variable is set to hold 
> (members only list) - message still hits "on hold" queue, and when 
> generic_action_variable is set to accept (anyone can send emails) 
> messages pass through spam filters anyway.


You can't use header_filter_rules because the 'accept' action only says 
'pass the header filter'. It doesn't say 'unconditionally accept the 
message'.


Is there any way to tell
> mailman to accept message matching header (like accept_these_nonmembers 
> but looking at recepient address oslt) even if the list is "members only"?


See 
 
for our advice on how to set this up.

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[Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists.

[Lech Karol Pawłaszek]

Hello,

I have a problem with setting up an umberlla list. I know it is wrong 
and i should not use umbrella list, but (i think) i really have to. If 
anyone has any other solution to my problem - i'm listening.

I want to have "mutliple level" list. At the very moment my company uses 
"announce" list to announce important stuff. But we also have country 
announce lists - such as "announce.pl" or "announce.fi" and so on. 
Moreover - we have regional (or city) announce lists - such as 
"announce.szczecin" and "announce.warsaw" (sometimes i think those 
should have names like "announce.pl.szczecin").

Let sum it up:
announce:
   + announce.poland
 - announce.szczecin
 - announce.warsaw
   + announce.finland
 - announce.helsinki

What i would like is to have "true lists" only at the lowest level. But 
be able to accept incoming mail at the highest level and not to worry 
about accepting the same mail on the other lists (if it is not from my 
company domainname).

I've tried acceptable_aliases variable, but it doesn't work if the lower 
level lists doesn't have sender on a member list (which is ok). So i 
tried to use spam filters and header_filter_rules variable and set one 
rule matching "announce" at "announce.poland" level with action 
"accept", but when generic_nonmember_action variable is set to hold 
(members only list) - message still hits "on hold" queue, and when 
generic_action_variable is set to accept (anyone can send emails) 
messages pass through spam filters anyway. Is there any way to tell 
mailman to accept message matching header (like accept_these_nonmembers 
but looking at recepient address oslt) even if the list is "members only"?

Sorry for my English - i am not native speaker. Thanks in advance.

Kind regards,

-- 
Lech Karol Pawłaszek 
"You will never see me fall from grace" [KoRn]
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Re: [Mailman-Users] umbrella lists

[Mark Sapiro]

Douglas B. Jones wrote:
>
>I am using "Using Mailman version: 2.1.5" on rhel4 (what comes
>with the box). I am want to set up a list, call it U1, that is
>an umbrella list to list L1, L2 and some individual subscribers
>S1 and S2. Can an umbrella list be set up this way, or is all
>or nothing - ie: all the subscribers are either list or they
>are all individual subscribers.


There's nothing magic about umbrella lists. All the umbrella list
designation does is append '-owner' (or whatever suffix you choose) to
the local part of the recipient address of various administrative
messages - in particular, password reminders.

You can have both lists and individuals as members of a list, but it
isn't clean.


>If both can be on there, do I
>list the sublists as (L1 and L2) as L1-owner and L2-owner?


No. The sublists have to be L1 and L2 or the posts from U1 will not be
sent to the list members.


>I would
>want password reminders and such to go to S1 and S2 but not to
>L1 or L2 (although L1-owner and L2-owner would be ok).


This is the unclean part. If you declare U1 to be an umbrella list,
password reminders will be sent to S1-owner and S2-owner which is
probably not satisfactory. If U1 is not an umbrella list, then
password reminders will be sent to L1 and L2. You can always turn off
periodic reminders for these (list) members, but that doesn't stop
someone from requesting a password via web or email which then gets
mailed to the list.


>Also would
>want email from U1 to post to L1 lists, but would want L2 to
>decide if the post should go through. Is this possible? Thanks!


This part is easy. You set L1 and L2 (and U1) to
require_explicit_destination. You add U1 to acceptable_aliases for L1,
but not for L2. Then posts relayed from U1 to L2 will be held for
implicit destination and require moderator approval.

In many cases, you need to add U1-bounces as a member of L1 and L2 with
delivery disabled so that posts to U1 are not held by L1 and L2 as
being from a non-member. You could omit this for L2, and posts to L2
from U1 would be held for that reason.

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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[Mailman-Users] umbrella lists

[Douglas B. Jones]

I am using "Using Mailman version: 2.1.5" on rhel4 (what comes
with the box). I am want to set up a list, call it U1, that is
an umbrella list to list L1, L2 and some individual subscribers
S1 and S2. Can an umbrella list be set up this way, or is all
or nothing - ie: all the subscribers are either list or they
are all individual subscribers. If both can be on there, do I
list the sublists as (L1 and L2) as L1-owner and L2-owner? I would
want password reminders and such to go to S1 and S2 but not to
L1 or L2 (although L1-owner and L2-owner would be ok). Also would
want email from U1 to post to L1 lists, but would want L2 to
decide if the post should go through. Is this possible? Thanks!

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists within umbrella lists?

[Mark Sapiro]

Allan Trick wrote:

>I have a new request to 
>create an intermediate list now.  This would require an umbrella 
>address like we have now, but then it contains two OTHER umbrella 
>lists, which then go to actual lists.
>
>Does Mailman allow an umbrella list within an umbrella list?


Absolutely. In fact, Mailman has no real knowledge of whether a list
member is another list or not.

The umbrella list settings are mainly so that administrivia from the
umbrella list is sent to member-owner (or other suffix) rather than
member. This makes it tricky to have a list with a combination of
lists and people as its direct members, but there is no problem with
lists of lists of lists to any level.

-- 
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[Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists within umbrella lists?

[Allan Trick]

I've got about 20 lists contained within a smaller number of umbrella 
lists which enables our users to message people on multiple lists by 
addressing a more compact single address.  I have a new request to 
create an intermediate list now.  This would require an umbrella 
address like we have now, but then it contains two OTHER umbrella 
lists, which then go to actual lists.

Does Mailman allow an umbrella list within an umbrella list?

Thx,

Allan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists

[Mark Sapiro]

Lori Christensen wrote:

>None of the sub-lists that are members receive their email from umbrella
>list.
>
>Example: umbrella list name- campusfac-l
>
>Membership for this list is
>Hum-l
>Soc-l
>Sci-l
>
>(these all have campusfac-l under recipient filter- Alias names
>(regexps) which qualify as explicit to or cc destination names for this
>list.

Does the umbrella list receive the message? (subscribe your own email
address to the umbrella and see if you get the post. Check Mailman's
logs, 'post', 'smtp', smtp-failure', 'vette' to see if the post got
to/through the umbrella and if/why it got discarded by the sub-lists)

The sub-list has to accept the post. This is going to depend on things
like *_these_nonmembers and generic_non-member_action for the
sub-lists or sub-list membership. You may want to subscribe - with
delivery disabled - the umbrella-bounces address (the sender of posts
from the umbrella) to each of the sub-lists.

-- 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists

[Mark Sapiro]

John Adamski wrote:
>
>After more research it looks like the issue is between our exchange
>server and mailman.  Exchange is holding all emails in a queue and
>getting error 'The remover server did not respond to a connection
>attempt.'  
>
>So far I have not found out why exchange can't connect or what the exact
>error it is getting when it tries to connect.  

Yet Lori's original post implied that mail to non-umbrella lists was
working. I don't know what could possibly allow exchange to connect
when it is going to (not yet known) deliver to A, but not when it is
going to deliver to B. But, then I know nothing about Exchange (or
what lies it might tell). In this case, it appears to be saying that
the remote server (the incoming MTA on the Mailman box?) did not
respond at all to its connect attempt.

Is anything about the mailman lists configured in Exchange? If so,
what's different between lists that work and lists that don't?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists

[John Adamski]

After more research it looks like the issue is between our exchange
server and mailman.  Exchange is holding all emails in a queue and
getting error 'The remover server did not respond to a connection
attempt.'  

So far I have not found out why exchange can't connect or what the exact
error it is getting when it tries to connect.  

Has anyone ever had a similar problem?

John
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Sapiro
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 6:10 PM
To: Lori Christensen; mailman-users@python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists

Lori Christensen wrote:
>
>   We are currently trying to implement mailman lists on
>our campus.  Implementation of normal lists has gone well but when we
>try to set up an umbrella list it doesn't seem to work. It shows the
>lists as subscribed to the main list and we've set the privacy options
>but somewhere we must have something selected or not selected that
makes
>them run properly. Is it possible for you to send a link that would
show
>how both the main list of the umbrella list is set up and also how the
>sub lists within it are set up?  We have a feeling it may be we don't
>have something chosen correctly.


It might be easier if you just told us exactly what happens when a post
is sent to the umbrella list and exactly what privacy options you have
set.

Note the following:

A post to the umbrella must come from a member of the umbrella list or
someone in accept_these_nonmembers of the umbrella (see
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_
id=103&atid=300103>
for a way to include the members of the sub lists) or
default_nonmember_action for the umbrella must be accept (or at least
not reject or discard). Similar considerations apply to the sub-lists
with respect to the address the sub-list will determine sent the post.

The umbrella should be in acceptable_aliases of the sub-lists or they
should have require_explicit_destination set to No.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists

[Mark Sapiro]

Lori Christensen wrote:
>
>   We are currently trying to implement mailman lists on
>our campus.  Implementation of normal lists has gone well but when we
>try to set up an umbrella list it doesn't seem to work. It shows the
>lists as subscribed to the main list and we've set the privacy options
>but somewhere we must have something selected or not selected that makes
>them run properly. Is it possible for you to send a link that would show
>how both the main list of the umbrella list is set up and also how the
>sub lists within it are set up?  We have a feeling it may be we don't
>have something chosen correctly.


It might be easier if you just told us exactly what happens when a post
is sent to the umbrella list and exactly what privacy options you have
set.

Note the following:

A post to the umbrella must come from a member of the umbrella list or
someone in accept_these_nonmembers of the umbrella (see

for a way to include the members of the sub lists) or
default_nonmember_action for the umbrella must be accept (or at least
not reject or discard). Similar considerations apply to the sub-lists
with respect to the address the sub-list will determine sent the post.

The umbrella should be in acceptable_aliases of the sub-lists or they
should have require_explicit_destination set to No.

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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[Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists

[Lori Christensen]

We are currently trying to implement mailman lists on
our campus.  Implementation of normal lists has gone well but when we
try to set up an umbrella list it doesn't seem to work. It shows the
lists as subscribed to the main list and we've set the privacy options
but somewhere we must have something selected or not selected that makes
them run properly. Is it possible for you to send a link that would show
how both the main list of the umbrella list is set up and also how the
sub lists within it are set up?  We have a feeling it may be we don't
have something chosen correctly.

Thank you for your assistance.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists - mixing lists and subscribers

[Mark Sapiro]

Paul Williams wrote:
>
>Suffix for use when this list is an umbrella for other lists, 
>according to setting of previous "umbrella_list" setting
>set at   
>
> -owner
>
>This causes a problem when adding in subscribers
>using the Mass Subscription option and you want the 
>user to "Send welcome messages to new subscribees".
>
>Those messages are sent out with -owner on their
>email address so it gets bounced.
>
>Is there a better way to handle Umbrella lists?


Not currently as far as I know.


>Of course the best way might be to add a new feature in 
>Mailman so you could identify a subscriber's address as 
>a list (say with a separate flag) so it does not send out 
>passwords to that email address.


The ToDo/Wishlist at http://www.list.org/todo.html contains the
following:

#  A better strategy is needed for sub-lists and super-lists, including
   dealing with the resulting password reminders and authorization to
   modify the sub & superlists.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists - mixing lists and subscribers

[Paul Williams]

I have an Umbrella list which has both
lists and subscribers as members of the list.

The default setting for an Umbrella list is

Suffix for use when this list is an umbrella for other lists, 
according to setting of previous "umbrella_list" setting
set at   

 -owner

This causes a problem when adding in subscribers
using the Mass Subscription option and you want the 
user to "Send welcome messages to new subscribees".

Those messages are sent out with -owner on their
email address so it gets bounced.

Is there a better way to handle Umbrella lists?

Of course the best way might be to add a new feature in 
Mailman so you could identify a subscriber's address as 
a list (say with a separate flag) so it does not send out 
passwords to that email address.

Thanks,


paulw


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Re: [Mailman-Users] umbrella lists and approved senders

[Mark Sapiro]

Gary Casterline wrote:
>
>We've set up chain of hierarchical lists to accommodate annual groups.
>Each year we create a list for the new cohorts:
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>and then add the new class-of list to the umbrella list:
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Each list is set to allow postings from subscribers and a
>small set of approved non-subscribed addresses.  I'd like to add
>these approved addresses to the umbrella list and have messages go
>through without owner/moderator approval to the sublists.
>As it is now, we have to add the approved addresses to each sublist.
>
>Any suggestions?


I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to do, but the patch at
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103
may help.

This patch allows you to put '@listname' in list_2's
accept_these_nonmembers field and then all the members of listname are
allowed to post to list_2.

If I understand you correctly, you could do the following:

Create list_x. No one will post to this list. No general users need to
be aware of it. You can set it up per
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp
so it is fully moderated and no one can post.

You then add all your non-member 'approved' addresses to this list.

Then when you create a new [EMAIL PROTECTED] list, you put
@list_x in the accept_these_nonmembers field.

Thus, all the members of list_x will be allowed to post to any of the
[EMAIL PROTECTED] lists, and the special approved posters can
be dynamically maintained just by maintaining the membership of list_x.

This does require installation of the patch, which may or may not be an
issue.

--
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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[Mailman-Users] umbrella lists and approved senders

[Gary Casterline]

We've set up chain of hierarchical lists to accommodate annual groups.
Each year we create a list for the new cohorts:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

and then add the new class-of list to the umbrella list:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Each list is set to allow postings from subscribers and a
small set of approved non-subscribed addresses.  I'd like to add
these approved addresses to the umbrella list and have messages go
through without owner/moderator approval to the sublists.
As it is now, we have to add the approved addresses to each sublist.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

 _Gary


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[Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists and Reply-to issue

[Padraig Houlahan]

Greetings:

I have an umbrella list that I can't quite configure exactly
the way I want.

Here is the situation:

List STAFF contains list STUDENTS and list ADMINS

Currently, STUDENTS and ADMINS have aliases set so email for
STAFF is accepted, which is fine.

The problem is that when external email arrives for STAFF
and needs to be moderated, it also needs to be moderated by
STUDENTS and ADMINS. In practice, I have a much more complex
list of lists than this so this is a real nuisance.

I have tried setting the "Hide Sender" option so the email
appears to be from a local address ([EMAIL PROTECTED]), but this
seems to always over-ride any settings in either (or both)
of the "Strip reply-to" and the "Where are replies to list
messages directed?" options. This means that while "Hide
Sender" allows moderated mail posted to STAFF to appear as
being from STAFF, it also means the Reply-To's are directed
to the STAFF list instead of the poster.

So, I want to be able to Hide the Sender, but set the
Reply-To to the poster. However, Hide Sender seems to
prevent this.

Am I doing something wrong or is this a limitation with
MailMan?

Regards,

PH



Padraig Houlahan
IT Manager
Lowell Observatory
Flagstaff, AZ
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella Lists

[Marc Silverman]

Yes, this seems to be the solution, thank you Dan and JC for your posts in
response!

--Marc
  July 26, 2005 @ 8:52 AM


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From: Dan Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 22:24:21 -0500
To: Marc Silverman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella Lists


On Jul 25, 2005, at 10:19 PM, Marc Silverman wrote:
> That ³Message has implicit destination² has appeared no matter what
> I¹ve
> tried, and it is inconvinient to have to go to each of the dozen
> lists to
> ³accept² the post.


Have you looked at http://your.dom.aim/mailman/admin/test/privacy/
recipient and read the explanation for the first option there? "Must
posts have list named in destination (to, cc) field (or be among the
acceptable alias names, specified below)? " That's where the
"implicit destination" error comes from and checking no there should
do away with it.

Dan


From: JC Dill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 22:07:04 -0700
To: Marc Silverman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: 
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella Lists

If you're running an umbrella list, you may want this message to be
accepted by the sub-list. To do that, in the sub-list's admin screen, go
to Privacy Options / Recipient Filters / Alias Names, and enter the name
of the umbrella list as a valid alias.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella Lists

[JC Dill]

Marc Silverman wrote:
> Forgive me if I didn¹t locate a solution to this ­ I did find some posts
> about Umbrella Lists, but nothing addressed my problem:
> 
> I have a dozen mailing lists.
> I created an Umbrella List to post to all of them.
> The posts go out, but each separate list Holds the message for Admin
> Moderation:
> Reason:Message has implicit destination
> 
> No matter what I¹ve tried, I cannot get my post to not hit the ³Hold for
> Admin Moderation²
> 
> Facts you might want to know:

Don't need to know anything more than what you have above:



Finds a FAQ entry which explains this message:

1.9. What does "message has implicit destination" mean?
It means that the address for the list was not found in the To: or CC: 
headers.

Typically this is due to one of a couple reasons:

1) Your list has a different domain name (FQDN) than you think it does, 
or than was used as the target address of the message. See the second to 
last entry on the main list configuration page to ensure that you have 
this set properly.

2) The message was BCC'ed (blind carbon copied) to the list, and was 
actually not addressed to the list directly (not that you can see).

If you're running an umbrella list, you may want this message to be 
accepted by the sub-list. To do that, in the sub-list's admin screen, go 
to Privacy Options / Recipient Filters / Alias Names, and enter the name 
of the umbrella list as a valid alias.
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[Mailman-Users] Umbrella Lists

[Marc Silverman]

Forgive me if I didn¹t locate a solution to this ­ I did find some posts
about Umbrella Lists, but nothing addressed my problem:

I have a dozen mailing lists.
I created an Umbrella List to post to all of them.
The posts go out, but each separate list Holds the message for Admin
Moderation:
Reason:Message has implicit destination

No matter what I¹ve tried, I cannot get my post to not hit the ³Hold for
Admin Moderation²

Facts you might want to know:
I added each of the dozen list addresses to the umbrella list as
subscribers: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], etc.
I added the single umbrella list address to each of the dozen lists as a
subscriber also.
I also added my own address to all the lists because I am sending the emails
out from my own email address.

That ³Message has implicit destination² has appeared no matter what I¹ve
tried, and it is inconvinient to have to go to each of the dozen lists to
³accept² the post.

Has anyone come across this problem (and solved it)?

Thanks.

--Marc
  July 25, 2005 @ 11:18 PM


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Re: [Mailman-Users] umbrella lists and avoiding duplicates

[Mark Sapiro]

Peter Schneider-Kamp wrote:
>
>Is there nowadays a good way of avoiding dupes, i.e., multiple posts of
>the essentially same message to one list?

Not that I know of.

>Also, I would like to have some umbrella lists. I have found an
>old thread in the archives (from April 2001) which proposes
>syncing the user lists of the umbrella list with the members
>of the sub-lists.
>
>Is this still state of the art or is there a better solution?

This is pretty much it for Mailman if you want to avoid dups for those
who are members of more than 1 sub list. See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.005.htp
for a couple of scripts that are a little more recent than 2001.

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[Mailman-Users] umbrella lists and avoiding duplicates

[Peter Schneider-Kamp]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Hi!
Is there nowadays a good way of avoiding dupes, i.e., multiple posts of
the essentially same message to one list?
Also, I would like to have some umbrella lists. I have found an
old thread in the archives (from April 2001) which proposes
syncing the user lists of the umbrella list with the members
of the sub-lists.
Is this still state of the art or is there a better solution?
Kind regards,
Peter
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Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFB9yWe3VbrCXkKHhwRAqSnAJ0VrdiER/7mxwJl4gmZVZtCK4GYOwCgrCWL
yGZbSu/sHN3zA+CehGWZzJg=
=z68N
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[Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists

[Agrevet]

Hi,

Is there any way to set up an umbrella list so that the members of the 
sub-lists can post to each other?  

Thanks,
Alice G.
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[Mailman-Users] Umbrella Lists

[Mike Hogsett]

I am currently installing Mailman as a replacement for majordomo.  Mostly
everything is going smoothly.

I have a question regarding umbrella lists.  I have 4 "real" mailing lists
and 5 aliases that redirect to some or all of these lists.

For the sake of explanation let's call the "real" lists :
A-staff
A-vis
B-staff
B-vis

The 5 aliases are (and send to -> )
all   -> A-staff, B-staff, A-vis, B-vis
all-staff -> A-staff, B-staff
all-vis   -> A-vis, B-vis
A-all -> A-staff, A-vis
B-all -> B-staff, B-vis

The 4 "real" lists are all moderated due to increasing spam and forged
addresses.

The problem: If a message goes to one of the aliases then the message must
be moderated at-least twice or at worst four times.  I would like to
moderate a message once.

What solutions are available?  Are there solutions entirely within the
scope of Mailman?

I have instrumented a solution using umbrella lists (for the aliases) and
some clever procmail rules, but would like to know what others have done
in similar situations.

Thanks,

Michael Hogsett



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[Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists && approvals

[Steve Huston]

I have a mild inconvenience here, and was wondering if there's a simple 
way around it.

For our department, I have setup lists for each class of users 
(undergraduates, grad students, faculty, etc), and an umbrella list to 
cover all the users.  There are some mails that are sent out to the all 
users list by 3rd parties (ie, a calendar of upcoming talks in 
different departments and such), and usually those mails are sent out 
with each recipient in the BCC field so we never see any recipients; 
sometimes, however, the person sends them out with each user in the To: 
field, and the mails get held because of too many recipients.

Now, this wouldn't be too big of a deal, except that approving the mail 
through the web interface on the umbrella list causes 7 mails to come 
to me and the other list admin, each for the same message but in a 
different list which is subscribed to the all users list.  So I have to 
approve the same mail 8 times.

The web interface doesn't seem to have any decent way around this, but 
I was wondering if there's some trick I can do?  Put the "Approved" 
header in the mail twice, so it's removed the first time and used the 
second time for the sub lists?  Maybe adding a check box to the admin 
database pages that says "Approve this mail for sub-lists" or 
something, which might require some extra hacking so that the Approved: 
header isn't accidentally sent out to a user.

Yes, I could be a BOFH and bounce the mails right back to the sender, 
but I'd rather not be that harsh.  The sender is aware of the issue, 
but everybody makes mistakes now and then :>

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   126 Peyton Hall |"On my ship, the Rocinante, wheeling through
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Re: [Mailman-Users] umbrella lists

[Jon Carnes]

On Thu, 2003-10-23 at 10:14, Dave Stern - Former Rocket Scientist wrote:
> We've had probs with nested lists in the past. I think the issue had to do
> with private lists (ie only members can post) for both the sublist(s) and
> the umbrella list. If set, how could a member of a sublist post to the
> umbrella list unless either the umbrella list was unrestricted or the
> user was also on the umbrella list?

A user does not have to be a member of a list to post.  Posting
privileges can be added either individually or via a regular expression.

I generally go the route of hourly sync's to do "master" lists formed
from sub-lists, so that isn't a problem I deal with regularly.

>  As I understand it, an umbrella list
> should *ONLY* be a list of lists and have no users. But that still wont
> allow a sublist member from posting to the umbrella, right?   So one
> option we've entertained is to wipe and rebuild superlists each night
> (ie dump sublist member addresses, wipe and reload them into superlist
> instead of having nested list). This also makes employee-exit procedures
> harder (how to find all lists a person is a member.

Nope.

Look at the "remove_members" command in Mailman.
  --fromall
Removes the given addresses from all the lists on this
system regardless of virtual domains if you have any.
This option cannot be used with -a/--all.  Also, you
should not specify a listname when using this option.
 

>  I wrote a script that
> lists_lists and recursivesly list_members and greps, kinda slow for many
> lists.   OTOH, superlists guarantee someone isn't on two sublists and thus
> gets two iterations of lists.
> 
You also might want to look at the "find_member" command.

> What have others done on this issue?
> 
> Another concern is; what happens if someone sends to a superlist during a
> list rebuild? Is sync_members robust enough to at least always keep one
> list of addresses around?

No problems.  Lists are "locked" during changes, so the sent email will
simply be queued until the lock is removed.

Hope that's helpful - Jon Carnes


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[Mailman-Users] umbrella lists

[Dave Stern - Former Rocket Scientist]

We've had probs with nested lists in the past. I think the issue had to do
with private lists (ie only members can post) for both the sublist(s) and
the umbrella list. If set, how could a member of a sublist post to the
umbrella list unless either the umbrella list was unrestricted or the
user was also on the umbrella list? As I understand it, an umbrella list
should *ONLY* be a list of lists and have no users. But that still wont
allow a sublist member from posting to the umbrella, right?   So one
option we've entertained is to wipe and rebuild superlists each night
(ie dump sublist member addresses, wipe and reload them into superlist
instead of having nested list). This also makes employee-exit procedures
harder (how to find all lists a person is a member. I wrote a script that
lists_lists and recursivesly list_members and greps, kinda slow for many
lists.   OTOH, superlists guarantee someone isn't on two sublists and thus
gets two iterations of lists.

What have others done on this issue?

Another concern is; what happens if someone sends to a superlist during a
list rebuild? Is sync_members robust enough to at least always keep one
list of addresses around?

TIA


 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-  generated by /dev/dave -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 David SternUniversity of Maryland
Institute for Advanced Computer Studies


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[Mailman-Users] umbrella lists

[Jen Schneider]

Hi - 

My host provider includes one Mailman list as part of my email package.  However, 
their site control interface doesn't provide much by way of help for list owners, so 
I'm wondering if you can assist me.

I'm interested in umbrella lists, which is mentioned briefly in the Mailman 
documentation, but not elaborated on.  What I want to do is this: 

Right now I'm managing multiple lists on my own (using Outlook).  I keep subscribers 
to my website in separate lists because my group emails are sometimes relevant only to 
certain lists - for example, I have a press list and a customer list and, in cases 
when I want to send out a press piece, I want to avoid sending it to my press list, 
who may have already seen it.  So I send it to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  In other cases, I 
might send a more general group email to [EMAIL PROTECTED], as well as [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]  You get the idea.

I'd like to use the Mailman feature on my account to manage my lists in a similar way, 
but I'm only allotted one free Mailman list with my account.  Is it possible, perhaps 
using an umbrella list, to accomplish something like this - a parent list with 
constituent lists that can be included and excluded from mailings on a case-by-case 
basis - using only one Mailman list?

I appreciate your time in reading this and look forward to your response.

Thanks!

Sincerely,

Jennifer Schneider
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists

[Jon Carnes]

Sounds like you will be fine! An umbrella list is meant for you.

Do test it out with some test lists first.  You'll need to alert the
sub-lists that they may get a message that says it's to , and the sub-lists will need to accept that message as though it
were sent directly to the list.  Beyond that, I don't think there are
any other gotcha's.

Good Luck - Jon Carnes
On Wed, 2003-10-15 at 11:22, Allan Trick wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've read in the mail archive about some problems people have had creating 
> umbrella lists.  So I wanted to just check and make sure I'm doing this the 
> right way before I make a mess on my own server!
> 
> I work at a school and I have a list of parents at each grade level for the 
> teachers to use.  The principal now wants to send out a message to all 
> parents, and while he could do it by mailing each of the lists separately, 
> an umbrella list seems like the way he can mail just one address and all 
> the lists would get mailed.  FAQ entry 3.5 talks about some aspects of 
> this, but is the basic process this:
> 
> 1.  Use ./newlist to make the umbrella list.
> 2.  Add new list info to /etc/aliases; run newaliases.
> 3.  Add as members of the list the names of the other lists that need to be 
> mailed when this umbrella name is sent to.
> 
> I've read how some suggest using a script to sync members, but at this 
> point I don't really care if people receive duplicate messages because 
> they're on more than one of those sublists.
> 
> Will there be any confusion among the users other than those duplicate 
> messages they may get?  I don't send out password reminders.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Allan
> 
> 
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[Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists

[Allan Trick]

Hi,

I've read in the mail archive about some problems people have had creating 
umbrella lists.  So I wanted to just check and make sure I'm doing this the 
right way before I make a mess on my own server!

I work at a school and I have a list of parents at each grade level for the 
teachers to use.  The principal now wants to send out a message to all 
parents, and while he could do it by mailing each of the lists separately, 
an umbrella list seems like the way he can mail just one address and all 
the lists would get mailed.  FAQ entry 3.5 talks about some aspects of 
this, but is the basic process this:

1.  Use ./newlist to make the umbrella list.
2.  Add new list info to /etc/aliases; run newaliases.
3.  Add as members of the list the names of the other lists that need to be 
mailed when this umbrella name is sent to.

I've read how some suggest using a script to sync members, but at this 
point I don't really care if people receive duplicate messages because 
they're on more than one of those sublists.

Will there be any confusion among the users other than those duplicate 
messages they may get?  I don't send out password reminders.

Thanks,

Allan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists: problems when unsubscribing

[Jon Carnes]

We've discussed this on the list before as well.  The key is to replace
the -unsubscribe alias with a script that finds the email address in one
of the sublists and then either unsubscribe them from the sublist, or
sends them back a URL that points to the web-based unsubscribe for the
user.

Something like this:
 We recieved an unsubscribe request from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To unsubscribe please visit:
 http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/[EMAIL PROTECTED]

===
You could also simply have the script find the proper sublist and then
forward the unsubscribe message onto that sublist

The archives contain some samples for generating email activated scripts
and commands.

Good Luck - Jon Carnes

BTW: I also recommend that you edit the listinfo webpage for the Master
list so that it points users to the individual sublists (should they
need to edit their settings).  This works easily for Umbrella lists that
are separated out using some logical identifiable parameter like the
first letter of the email address or the department of an organization.

On Tue, 2003-02-25 at 15:19, Rostyk Ivantsiv wrote:
> Hello!
>   Need some help with umbrella lists (I think it was discussed
>   earlier in the list but it is not covered in the umbrella faq):
> 
>   For example I have an umbrella list U, which has members - the
>   email addresses of other lists - A, B, C. I configured A, B, C
>   to receive mail from U without moderation (privacy options), so
>   everything works ok. Now consider some userA, who is a member of
>   A sublist, wants to unsubscribe, so he sends mail with
>   subj="unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and gets a
>   response that he is not a member of U!!!
> 
>   This problem can be solved by providing the necessary email
>   addresses in the footers of every sublist:
> 
>   
>   Unsubscribe address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   
>   
> 
>   but it is inconvenient when there are many sublists (>10), and
>   besides it's better for userA to assume he is a member of U.
> 
>   So any suggestions?
> 
> 
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> 




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[Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists: problems when unsubscribing

[Rostyk Ivantsiv]

Hello!
  Need some help with umbrella lists (I think it was discussed
  earlier in the list but it is not covered in the umbrella faq):

  For example I have an umbrella list U, which has members - the
  email addresses of other lists - A, B, C. I configured A, B, C
  to receive mail from U without moderation (privacy options), so
  everything works ok. Now consider some userA, who is a member of
  A sublist, wants to unsubscribe, so he sends mail with
  subj="unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and gets a
  response that he is not a member of U!!!

  This problem can be solved by providing the necessary email
  addresses in the footers of every sublist:

  
  Unsubscribe address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  

  but it is inconvenient when there are many sublists (>10), and
  besides it's better for userA to assume he is a member of U.

  So any suggestions?


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists

[Jon Carnes]

Version 2.0.x won't de-dup.  Read the FAQ entry:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.005.htp

Good luck - Jon Carnes

On Fri, 2002-12-06 at 15:03, Sandy Hansen wrote:
> Here's a query probably addressed in documentation, but there is so much
> 
> documentation to plow through, thought a quick query might be a more
> efficient 
> use of my limited time.
> 
> I have installed seven Mailman lists on a website I maintain. If I set
> up an 
> umbrella list, will it de-dup names, since I have a group which is 
> automatically subscribed to ALL of these little-used lists? I'd love to
> send a 
> message to all lists, but don't want people to receive it seven times. 
> 
> Thanks,
> --
> Sandy Hansen
> Website Administrator
> AAUW of California
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists

[Sandy Hansen]

Here's a query probably addressed in documentation, but there is so much

documentation to plow through, thought a quick query might be a more
efficient 
use of my limited time.

I have installed seven Mailman lists on a website I maintain. If I set
up an 
umbrella list, will it de-dup names, since I have a group which is 
automatically subscribed to ALL of these little-used lists? I'd love to
send a 
message to all lists, but don't want people to receive it seven times. 

Thanks,
--
Sandy Hansen
Website Administrator
AAUW of California




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Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists

[Barry A. Warsaw]

> "SW" == Sarah Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

SW> As far as I can tell, Mailman does not have proper support for
SW> umbrella lists.

FWIW, I don't like the design of the current umbrella list feature.  I
believe I know the way to do such things better, but it will have to
wait until after MM2.1.

-Barry


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[Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists

[Sarah Walters]

As far as I can tell, Mailman does not have proper support for umbrella lists.
We have a need for lists that are aggregations of other lists.
EG: all_general_staff might look like:

:include:/packages/majordomo/lists/dept1_staff
:include:/packages/majordomo/lists/dept2_staff
:include:/packages/majordomo/lists/dept3_staff
:include:/packages/majordomo/lists/dept4_staff
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


A staff member might be a member of both dept1_staff and dept2_staff. How do
we prevent them from receiving two emails, while having [all_general_staff]
prepended to the subject line? If this has not been done, can you add it to
the wishlist, and we could possibly pitch in as there are several python
programmers here.

-- 
Mrs Sarah Walters   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Information Technology Services Bld 17 Level 2
The University of WollongongPh: +61 2 4221 3775


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Re: [Mailman-Users] umbrella lists

[Jon Carnes]

Common problem.  The sub lists don't allow any message in which they are not
listed in the To: or CC:.  To set them to rights, web-admin over to the sub
lists and choosing Privacy Options, put the email address for your Umbrella
list into:
  Alias names (regexps) which qualify as explicit to or cc destination names
for this list. (Details)

Good Luck - Jon Carnes
- Original Message -
From: "Chris Delp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 3:26 PM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] umbrella lists


> im trying to set up an umbrella list for a group of lists i have, but
> but the posts from the umbrella list keep getting held for approval by
> the under lists. any idea why this would happen?
>
> --
> Christopher L Delp
> Website Administraitor
> ASCYPAA Advisory Council
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> --
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[Mailman-Users] umbrella lists

[Chris Delp]

im trying to set up an umbrella list for a group of lists i have, but 
but the posts from the umbrella list keep getting held for approval by 
the under lists. any idea why this would happen?

-- 
Christopher L Delp
Website Administraitor
ASCYPAA Advisory Council
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[Mailman-Users] Umbrella Lists

[Marc Perkel]

I don't quite understand how to do an umbrella list.

I I have 3 lists ListA ListB and ListC

I have another list ListABC that sends to the other three lists.

I want to be able to send to ListABC - but when I do - the message gets
moderated. And I can't seem to get past that even though I'm running the
system open.

Anyone know how to fix that?


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[Mailman-Users] Umbrella Lists

[Marc Perkel]

I can't seem to find documentation on this.

I have 3 lists ListA ListB and ListC

Now I want to make an umbrella list - ListABC

I want it so that only members of ListA - ListB and ListC can send to
ListABC

How do I do that?



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[Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists and avoiding multiple copies (was Re: Anyone? ...)

[jtrigg]

On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 11:49:10AM -0700, Marc MERLIN wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 02:15:28PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Example:
> > Umbrella list A has three sublists A1, A2, and A3 subscribed to it. 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] is subscribed to lists A1 and A3.  When a message is
> > sent to A, will [EMAIL PROTECTED] receive one or two copies of it?  What
> > setting is necessary to prevent [EMAIL PROTECTED] from receiving two
> > copies?
> 
> Sorry, I missed that part.
> 
> procmail is your friend:
> :0 Wh: msgid.lock
> :| formail -D 8192 msgid.cache

That's a useful tool for recipients who have it available, but we're
looking for a tool at the list management end that will handle it. 
First, because not all of our subscribers will be able to do something
like this, and second, to conserve bandwidth.

Thanks,
Jim Trigg
Itinerant List Admin
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