Re: [Mailman-Users] uncaught bounce notification

[Barry Finkel]

Ted Frohling  wrote:

>I'm getting an uncaught bounce notification from a particular user on
>one of my mailing lists.  In a message in the archives, one respondent
>said they could look at the message, but would need the original
>email.  I'm using mailman 2.1.9 and postfix as the mta.  I can't figure
>out where I would find the original message.  I've looked in the
>usual places and neither mailman nor postfix is keeping the original
>message around.  At least that I have found.  So where to look, or
>what to turn on so the message is saved for the future so I have a
>chance to determine why the message is not being understood by the
>mailman bounce processor.

You would need to look at the archives mbox file on the Mailman machine.
On my Ubuntu machine the archives are in

 /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox

That mbox file has the mail messages with all of the RFC 5322 mail
headers.  Viewing the archives via the web interface will not show
all of the mail headers.
--
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory  Phone:+1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue   Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209  Internet: bsfin...@anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828 IBMMAIL:  I1004994

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9

Re: [Mailman-Users] uncaught bounce notification

[Mark Sapiro]

Ted Frohling wrote:

>I'm getting an uncaught bounce notification from a particular user on
>one of my mailing lists.  In a message in the archives, one respondent
>said they could look at the message, but would need the original
>email.  I'm using mailman 2.1.9 and postfix as the mta.  I can't figure
>out where I would find the original message.


The original "uncaught bounce notification" email that you received,
not the original email that bounced.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9

Re: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught Bounce Notification

[Jeff Grossman]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Jeff Grossman wrote:
>>
>>Don't temporary failures get a score of 0.5 while a permanent failure
>> gets
>>a score of 1.0?  So, if that is the case, these temporary failures would
>>take longer to suspend the account.  I think these should be counted.
>
>
> That's what the documentation says, but in fact, it doesn't work that
> way. Bounces which are recognized as 'warnings', e.g. "Unable to
> deliver your message for 4 hours, will keep trying ...", are ignored.
> All other recognized bounces are given a weight of 1.0.

Oh, thanks for that information.

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9

Re: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught Bounce Notification

[Mark Sapiro]

Jeff Grossman wrote:
>
>Don't temporary failures get a score of 0.5 while a permanent failure gets
>a score of 1.0?  So, if that is the case, these temporary failures would
>take longer to suspend the account.  I think these should be counted.


That's what the documentation says, but in fact, it doesn't work that
way. Bounces which are recognized as 'warnings', e.g. "Unable to
deliver your message for 4 hours, will keep trying ...", are ignored.
All other recognized bounces are given a weight of 1.0.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9

Re: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught Bounce Notification

[Brad Knowles]

on 2/14/09 7:32 PM, Grant Taylor said:

Agreed.  However I believe the permanent or temporary nature that the 
bounce is speaking of is on the SMTP level, thus the sending server 
should not try to send this given message again.  I think it is a flaw 
to extend this SMTP meaning up to actual future (different) message 
delivery.


This is an excellent point.  I don't think I could have said it better 
myself.


--
Brad Knowles
If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out
LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at
http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9

Re: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught Bounce Notification

[Jeff Grossman]

Grant Taylor wrote:
> On 02/13/2009 07:29 PM, Jeff Grossman wrote:
>> I received a uncaught bounce notification from one of my lists today.
>>  The bounce looks pretty normal, and figured it should have been
>> caught by the bounce system.  How do I report bounce formats that did
>> not get caught by the bounce system?
>
> Though it would be nice for Mailman to recognize this bounce format and
> automatically process it, I am questioning if this particular bounce
> should be acted upon or not.
>
> Seeing as how this bounce was generated because the recipient was over
> quota "User's Disk Quota Exceeded", I wonder what the appropriate thing
> to do is.  This is (IMHO) *very* likely to be a transient / temporary
> error.  As such I'm not sure that I would want to act on this particular
> error.  However if a bunch of these errors happened, then I might want
> to take action.
>
> So I'm not sure if this is where the number of bounces (before something
> is done) comes in to play, or what.  Just something to think about.

Don't temporary failures get a score of 0.5 while a permanent failure gets
a score of 1.0?  So, if that is the case, these temporary failures would
take longer to suspend the account.  I think these should be counted.

Jeff

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9

Re: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught Bounce Notification

[Grant Taylor]

On 02/14/2009 08:08 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
and I interpret that to mean that even though the user is over quota, 
the MTA will accept a < 1 KB message to allow you to try to notify 
the user of the problem, not that the user is 1 KB below quota.


*nod*

Hopefully there is a limit to how far over quota the mail box can be 
before the server stops accepting small messages, or it would still be 
possible to DoS the system.




Grant. . . .
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9

Re: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught Bounce Notification

[Mark Sapiro]

Grant Taylor wrote:
>
>P.S.  I find it interesting that the bounce is eluding to the amount of 
>space remaining in the account.  This is (in my experience) extremely 
>unusual.


As I read the bounce, it says

Sorry, your intended recipient has too much mail stored
in his mailbox.
Your message totalled  23 Kbytes.
However a small (< 1Kb) message will be delivered should
you wish to inform your recipient you tried to email.

and I interpret that to mean that even though the user is over quota,
the MTA will accept a < 1 KB message to allow you to try to notify the
user of the problem, not that the user is 1 KB below quota.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9

Re: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught Bounce Notification

[Grant Taylor]

On 02/14/2009 07:04 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
That question hinges on whether or not the bounce should be 
considered a permanent or a temporary failure. The bounce itself says 
"This is a permanent error."


Agreed.  However I believe the permanent or temporary nature that the 
bounce is speaking of is on the SMTP level, thus the sending server 
should not try to send this given message again.  I think it is a flaw 
to extend this SMTP meaning up to actual future (different) message 
delivery.


I disagree. I think it is likely to be an abandoned account, but in 
any case, with default bounce processing settings, The user's 
delivery won't be disabled until a bounce like this is received on 5 
separate days.


Possibly.  My experience with my customer shows that people are likely 
to hit their quota over a weekend or a vacation.  When they come back 
the following week (or when ever) and POP all their messages out of 
their box, the /temporary/ error is corrected.  Granted my experience 
may be limited to my customer scope and more than likely does not apply 
to someone like GMail or HotMail or Yahoo.  I guess it depends on the 
customer base.


So probably when we disable the user's delivery after 5 days of 
bounces, the disabled notice we send to the user might be accepted, 
and with default settings, the user won't be unsubscribed until 3 
weeks and two more notices later.


Agreed... as long as there is not < 23 kB worth of email received in the 
next 3 weeks.  However if the user does not clean out their mail box in 
that time this leads credence to the likely hood that the account is 
abandoned.


Granted, this could be a user on an extended vacation (over a month), 
but in that case, ultimately unsubscribing the user is easy to 
reverse and is small penalty for the user's forgetting to disable 
list delivery.


True...



Grant. . . .


P.S.  I find it interesting that the bounce is eluding to the amount of 
space remaining in the account.  This is (in my experience) extremely 
unusual.

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9

Re: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught Bounce Notification

[Ed's Shop]

*
Grant Taylor wrote:

>On 02/13/2009 07:29 PM, Jeff Grossman wrote:
>> I received a uncaught bounce notification from one of my lists today.
>>  The bounce looks pretty normal, and figured it should have been
>> caught by the bounce system.  How do I report bounce formats that did
>> not get caught by the bounce system?
>
>Though it would be nice for Mailman to recognize this bounce format and
>automatically process it, I am questioning if this particular bounce
>should be acted upon or not.


That question hinges on whether or not the bounce should be considered
a permanent or a temporary failure. The bounce itself says "This is a
permanent error."


>Seeing as how this bounce was generated because the recipient was over
>quota "User's Disk Quota Exceeded", I wonder what the appropriate thing
>to do is.  This is (IMHO) *very* likely to be a transient / temporary
>error.


I disagree. I think it is likely to be an abandoned account, but in any
case, with default bounce processing settings, The user's delivery
won't be disabled until a bounce like this is received on 5 separate
days.


>As such I'm not sure that I would want to act on this particular
>error.  However if a bunch of these errors happened, then I might want
>to take action.
>
>So I'm not sure if this is where the number of bounces (before something
>is done) comes in to play, or what.  Just something to think about.


Exactly.

Also note that the message also said "Your message totalled  23 Kbytes.
However a small (< 1Kb) message will be delivered should
you wish to inform your recipient you tried to email."

So probably when we disable the user's delivery after 5 days of
bounces, the disabled notice we send to the user might be accepted,
and with default settings, the user won't be unsubscribed until 3
weeks and two more notices later.

Granted, this could be a user on an extended vacation (over a month),
but in that case, ultimately unsubscribing the user is easy to reverse
and is small penalty for the user's forgetting to disable list
delivery.

--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

--
*

I have TEN guys on one of my cPanel List that travel a LOT and
(used to -:) ) Forget to either STOP their subscription or UN-sub.

That BOUNCE(s) used to drive me NUTS until I REALLY put my
foot down AFTER contacting each Lister and finding out what-was-what and
then or THIRD occurrence (each) I banned them which
DID 'get their attention' !!! -:)

At the very beginning of the 1st gent causing it, I also was REALLY
'wondering' and was actually going to ask the same sort of thing as
Jeff had.

Investigate, investigate, investigate.   -:)

Ed

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9

Re: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught Bounce Notification

[Mark Sapiro]

Grant Taylor wrote:

>On 02/13/2009 07:29 PM, Jeff Grossman wrote:
>> I received a uncaught bounce notification from one of my lists today. 
>>  The bounce looks pretty normal, and figured it should have been 
>> caught by the bounce system.  How do I report bounce formats that did 
>> not get caught by the bounce system?
>
>Though it would be nice for Mailman to recognize this bounce format and 
>automatically process it, I am questioning if this particular bounce 
>should be acted upon or not.


That question hinges on whether or not the bounce should be considered
a permanent or a temporary failure. The bounce itself says "This is a
permanent error."


>Seeing as how this bounce was generated because the recipient was over 
>quota "User's Disk Quota Exceeded", I wonder what the appropriate thing 
>to do is.  This is (IMHO) *very* likely to be a transient / temporary 
>error.


I disagree. I think it is likely to be an abandoned account, but in any
case, with default bounce processing settings, The user's delivery
won't be disabled until a bounce like this is received on 5 separate
days.


>As such I'm not sure that I would want to act on this particular 
>error.  However if a bunch of these errors happened, then I might want 
>to take action.
>
>So I'm not sure if this is where the number of bounces (before something 
>is done) comes in to play, or what.  Just something to think about.


Exactly.

Also note that the message also said "Your message totalled  23 Kbytes.
However a small (< 1Kb) message will be delivered should
you wish to inform your recipient you tried to email."

So probably when we disable the user's delivery after 5 days of
bounces, the disabled notice we send to the user might be accepted,
and with default settings, the user won't be unsubscribed until 3
weeks and two more notices later.

Granted, this could be a user on an extended vacation (over a month),
but in that case, ultimately unsubscribing the user is easy to reverse
and is small penalty for the user's forgetting to disable list
delivery.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9

Re: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught Bounce Notification

[Grant Taylor]

On 02/13/2009 07:29 PM, Jeff Grossman wrote:
I received a uncaught bounce notification from one of my lists today. 
 The bounce looks pretty normal, and figured it should have been 
caught by the bounce system.  How do I report bounce formats that did 
not get caught by the bounce system?


Though it would be nice for Mailman to recognize this bounce format and 
automatically process it, I am questioning if this particular bounce 
should be acted upon or not.


Seeing as how this bounce was generated because the recipient was over 
quota "User's Disk Quota Exceeded", I wonder what the appropriate thing 
to do is.  This is (IMHO) *very* likely to be a transient / temporary 
error.  As such I'm not sure that I would want to act on this particular 
error.  However if a bunch of these errors happened, then I might want 
to take action.


So I'm not sure if this is where the number of bounces (before something 
is done) comes in to play, or what.  Just something to think about.




Grant. . . .
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9

Re: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught Bounce Notification

[Mark Sapiro]

Jeff Grossman wrote:

>I received a uncaught bounce notification from one of my lists today.
>The bounce looks pretty normal, and figured it should have been caught
>by the bounce system.  How do I report bounce formats that did not get
>caught by the bounce system?


You send them to me, but I need the full raw message, not just the
body, because various things in the headers are used to determine
which heuristics to apply to the message.


>Here is the bounce.  I changed the e-mail address.  And, yes the e-mail
>address is currently subscribed to the list.


Whether or not the address is a list member has nothing to do with
recognition. If the bounce is sent to you as unrecognized, Mailman
doesn't know what address bounced. Mailman is saying it couldn't
determine the address. If Mailman had determined the address, and it
wasn't a list member, it would have just ignored the bounce


>Hi. The MTA program at mta6-1.us4.outblaze.com was unable to deliver
>your message to the following addresses.
>
>This is a permanent error.


This has a Qmail flavor to it, but it doesn't comply with
.


-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9

Re: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught bounce notification: Why this message , I haven't sent Any mails

[Jeff Donsbach]

On Dec 17, 2007 11:20 AM, Barry Finkel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> We have a problem here where mail from a Mailman list is sent to
> a BlackBerry device.  When the recipient does a "reply-all", one of
> the reply recipients is the list -bounce address.  This appears to be a
> bug in the BlackBerry MUA code, but we have not verified it with
> BlackBerry, as we get our BlackBerry support from Nextel.

I have seen this phenomena from my Blackberry users as well.  But I
have no connection with Blackberry, as this are not commercial lists
and I don't own one.
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

Re: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught bounce notification: Why this message , I haven't sent Any mails

[Brad Knowles]

On 12/17/07, kk CHN wrote:

>  I have  few mailing lists running  on Mailman(I am the list administrator
>  for these lists ) :  for the last few days I am getting a message regularly
>  with subject line   like this : Uncaught bounce notification

In this case, someone sent out spam, claiming to be your mailing 
list.  The bounce comes back to Mailman, but since you didn't 
actually send the message in question, Mailman doesn't know what to 
do with it.  Therefore, Mailman sends to message to you, as list 
owner.

-- 
Brad Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
LinkedIn Profile: 
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

Re: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught bounce notification: Why this message , I haven't sent Any mails

[Barry Finkel]

kk CHN wrote:
>>
>>I have  few mailing lists running  on Mailman(I am the list administrator
>>for these lists ) :  for the last few days I am getting a message regularly
>>with subject line   like this : Uncaught bounce notification
>>
>>
>>I havn't sent any mails to the address ("[EMAIL PROTECTED]")
>>still   I am receiving the "  Uncaught bounce notification "   email to my
>>list administration id && got annoyed How can I control this Or whats
>>happening here with my  mail system ?

and Mark Sapiro replied:

>Spammers or confused list members are sending mail to
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] These
>are addresses used by Mailman's automated bounce processing. When an
>ordinary message arrives at one of these addresses, Mailman can't
>parse it as a Delivery Status Notification and forwards it to the list
>owner.
>
>You can't stop spammers from mailing to the address, but you can stop
>the notices by turning off bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner on
>the admin Bounce processing page.

We have a problem here where mail from a Mailman list is sent to
a BlackBerry device.  When the recipient does a "reply-all", one of
the reply recipients is the list -bounce address.  This appears to be a
bug in the BlackBerry MUA code, but we have not verified it with
BlackBerry, as we get our BlackBerry support from Nextel.
--
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory  Phone:+1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue   Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209  Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Argonne, IL   60439-4828 IBMMAIL:  I1004994

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

Re: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught bounce notification: Why this message , I haven't sent Any mails

[Mark Sapiro]

kk CHN wrote:
>
>I have  few mailing lists running  on Mailman(I am the list administrator
>for these lists ) :  for the last few days I am getting a message regularly
>with subject line   like this : Uncaught bounce notification
>
>
>I havn't sent any mails to the address ("[EMAIL PROTECTED]")
>still   I am receiving the "  Uncaught bounce notification "   email to my
>list administration id && got annoyed How can I control this Or whats
>happening here with my  mail system ?


Spammers or confused list members are sending mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] These
are addresses used by Mailman's automated bounce processing. When an
ordinary message arrives at one of these addresses, Mailman can't
parse it as a Delivery Status Notification and forwards it to the list
owner.

You can't stop spammers from mailing to the address, but you can stop
the notices by turning off bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner on
the admin Bounce processing page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

Re: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught bounce notification - Out-of-Office

[Christopher X. Candreva]

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007, Barry Finkel wrote:

> Are there plans for Mailman to be able to intercept out-of-office
> replies and ignore them?  Or is the format of the text too variable
> to be able to parse the OOO message?  

I've solved this problem locally using a procmail rule, and I think the 
method could be implemented in mailman itself if others thought it 
worthwhile. I only send on to mailman messages that match 
procmail's FROM_MAILER check, anything else is sent directly to a human.
My theory is if the message isn't from a mailer-daemon, than it probably 
isn't a bounce.

For those not familiar with procmail, FROM_MAILER expands to a faily 
complicated regex designed to catch mail from any mailer-daemon.

 `(^(((Resent-)?(From|Sender)|X-Envelope-From):
 |>?From )([^>]*[^([EMAIL PROTECTED])?(Post(ma(st(er)?|n)|office)
 |(send)?Mail(er)?|daemon|mmdf|n?uucp|ops|r(esponse|oot)
 |(bbs\.)?smtp(error)?|s(erv(ices?|er)|ystem)
 |A(dmin(istrator)?|MMGR))(([^).!:a-z0-9][-_a-z0-9]*)?[%@>\t
 ][^<)]*(\(.*\).*)?)?$([^>]|$))'


The aliases entry looks like this:
listname-bounces:   \
"|/usr/local/bin/procmail -m  /etc/mail/listname-bounces.rc"

listname-bounces.mc has:

# Only send stuff from the mailer to mailman
:0
* ^FROM_MAILER
| /home/mailman/mail/mailman bounces listname

#Everything else to a human
:0
[EMAIL PROTECTED]





==
Chris Candreva  -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- (914) 948-3162
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/
--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

Re: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught bounce notification - Out-of-Office

[Jim Popovitch]

On Tue, 2007-07-24 at 08:12 -0500, Barry Finkel wrote:
> Or is the format of the text too variable
> to be able to parse the OOO message?  

Bingo!  No Standard, and even if there was one most wouldn't follow it.
The 2 biggest offenders I see are Outlook/Exchange and Lotus Notes, of
which neither tries to implement any OoO standard.

-Jim P.

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

Re: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught bounce notification loop

[Mark Sapiro]

Brian Parish wrote:

>With *bounce_processing set to Yes on one list I get:
>*
>
>The attached message was received as a bounce...
>
>messages, with the same message attached many times.  i.e. The Uncaught bounce 
>notification IS the attached message.  These continue streaming out until I 
>turn off *bounce_processing


This loop should not occur. Unless the owner address(es) for the site
(mailman) list bounce. Uncaught bounce notifications are send from
-owner with envelope from -owner. Thus, if the
list owner address bounces, and the bounce is uncaught, the new notice
will be sent to the owner of the site list, which should be
deliverable.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

Re: [Mailman-Users] "Uncaught bounce notification" question/problem

[Mark Sapiro]

John Swartzentruber wrote:

>When one user on one of my lists replies to list messages, they get sent 
>to the bounce address and show up as uncaught bounces. I understand why 
>this is happening, so that itself isn't my question. In the latest 
>instance, this user also CC'ed the correct list address. It looks like 
>the message was sent to:
>
>To: A individual address
>To: The "list-bounces" address
>CC: The correct list address
>
>My question is why the message never showed up for moderation (the list 
>is moderated)? All that showed up was the "uncaught bounce" message. It 
>seems that the actual message should also have come through. Is 
>duplicates processing preventing that? In this case, I would prefer that 
>the real message be processed and the bounce message be discarded 
>instead of the other way around. If this isn't the case, what could have 
>caused the message not to come through?

The header - X-BeenThere: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I'm guessing that these headers came from the "unrecognized bounce"
e-mail that you received. If that is the case, the "reply" contains
way too many headers from the original message that should not be
included in a reply. Rather than a "reply", it looks like a redirect
or resend.

But then, if these are headers from the bounce, I don't know why it
would be unrecognized as the reply address
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> appears to
be a VERP like address that should always be recognizable regardless
of message content.

>
>Here are the headers (with stuff crossed out or changed):
>
>Received: from gatekeeper-sef.rcbhsc.wvu.edu (gatekeeper.rcbhsc.wvu.edu 
>[xxx.xxx.216.2])
>by xx.xxx.xxx.net (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id
>j29IZVUc013396; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 13:35:33 -0500
>Received: from nt-exchange1.xxxh.xxxhs.com by gatekeeper-sef.rcbhsc.xxx.edu
>via smtpd (for dslxxx-xxx-039.phl1.dsl.xxx.net [xxx.xxx.233.39])
>with ESMTP; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 13:35:32 -0500
>Received: (private information removed)
>Message-ID: 
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>From: "Jones, Sally" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "'Richard J Smith '" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>"'[EMAIL PROTECTED] '"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>"'[EMAIL PROTECTED] '" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Cc: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED] '" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: [BogusList] Subject
>Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 13:35:27 -0500
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
>List-Help: 
>List-Subscribe: ,
>
>List-Unsubscribe: ,
>
>X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33
>X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-3, 6-7, 20-21, 30-31, 34-35, 43-45, 48, 55-56, 58, 
>63-64,
>68-69, 76-77, 79
>X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on 
>localhost
>X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on 
>localhost
>X-Virus-Status: Clean
>X-BeenThere: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
>X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information
>X-MailScanner: Found to be clean
>X-MailScanner-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Content-Type: text/plain;
>charset="ISO-8859-1"

--
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

--
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp