Re: [mailop] Email issue with Synacor?

[Frank Bulk]

Thanks.  The CableOne NOC responded to me a little while ago and said they are 
bringing this to the attention of their email provider (which appears to be 
Synacor).

 

Frank

 

From: mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] On Behalf Of Brett Schenker
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2016 1:35 PM
To: Vick Khera 
Cc: mailop@mailop.org
Subject: Re: [mailop] Email issue with Synacor?

 

Yes, seeing the same, but it's only a portion of what we're sending.

 

On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 2:14 PM, Vick Khera mailto:vi...@khera.org> > wrote:

 

On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Frank Bulk mailto:frnk...@iname.com> > wrote:

Anyone else seeing the same?


Yes, for some of it. It looks like more is going through than not going through.


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-- 

Brett Schenker
Man of Many Things, Including
5B Consulting - http://www.5bconsulting.com
Graphic Policy - http://www.graphicpolicy.com

Twitter - http://twitter.com/bhschenker
LinkedIn - http://www.linkedin.com/in/brettschenker

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Re: [mailop] Mail accepted by outlook.com/hotmail.com disappears.

[Michael Wise]

Has the customer signed up for JMRP or SNDS?
Because if not, that would be step #0; see below.

And yes, under certain circumstances, Hotmail/Outlook will 250 the mail, and 
may then if it considers the IP sufficiently toxic, delete it without 
delivering it to the intended recipient’s INBOX or Junk folder with no NDR. The 
issue will be highlighted in the SNDS report, however.

And there is *NO-ONE* at Microsoft who is a contact who can get things running 
smoothly again.
The policy is cast in ferro-cement, no exceptions:


1)  Open a ticket and request mitigation for the IP(s) here: 
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=614866&clcid

2)  Wait and see what the machine thinks…

3)  If the IPs are not mitigated, reply to the email and request it, and 
provide as much detail as possible about:

A)  what happened,

B)  what you did to fix it,

C)  and why it Won’t Happen Again.

As to the programs that Senders should join, they are:

Join the Junk Mail Reporting Program (JMRP)
We believe that your recipients are the best indicator that the email you are 
sending is wanted.  The JMRP program allows you to see which of your emails 
Outlook.com users have marked as junk or unwanted mail.  Reviewing the results 
in JMRP will provide to the most direct information on what characteristics of 
your email, customers, and ultimately SmartScreen®, consider to be unwanted. 
This helpful feedback mechanism allows you to ensure that mails being sent from 
your IP are not resulting in negative feedback that could impact your sending 
reputation. Being vigilant about users who mark your e-mail as unwanted or the 
types of messages that are being marked as unwanted can help you keep mailing 
lists updated with only interested users and modify future campaigns. In 
addition, monitoring user complaints can help you identify unintended mail 
traffic or detect a potentially compromised account sending unwanted mail to 
your customers. Enroll at 
https://postmaster.live.com/snds/JMRP.aspx?wa=wsignin1.0.

Join the Smart Network Data Services program (SNDS)
The SNDS program provides data about traffic seen originating from your 
registered IP, such as mail volume and complaint rates. The data is built from 
the log files of the inbound mail machines and other servers at Outlook.com and 
Microsoft and represents factual information about the traffic from your mail 
servers to Outlook.com users. For more information about this free program 
refer to https://postmaster.live.com/snds/FAQ.aspx. To register, please go to 
http://postmaster.msn.com/snds/. (Tip: As part of the enrollment process, you 
are asked to sign the JMRP program agreement and then send a response to 
Support indicating that it has been signed.  It’s not uncommon for that step in 
the enrollment process to be missed.)

Aloha,
Michael.
--
Michael J Wise | Microsoft | Spam Analysis | "Your Spam Specimen Has Been 
Processed." | Got the Junk Mail Reporting 
Tool ?

From: mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] On Behalf Of Aaron C. de Bruyn
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:12 PM
To: mailop@mailop.org
Subject: [mailop] Mail accepted by outlook.com/hotmail.com disappears.

A customer complained to me they haven't been able to e-mail outlook/hotmail 
users for "a while".

I talked with their IT department and they said "A few weeks ago we had a virus 
that spammed a bunch of people.  We cleaned it up and got de-listed everywhere, 
but 
outlook.com
 is still broken".

They gave up and turfed the issue to me (an outside consulting company).

I set up a test account on 
outlook.com
 and tried sending several messages.  After 30 minutes the messages aren't in 
my 
outlook.com
 inbox or spam folder.

I manually dug through the (password protected) archives (which don't have a 
search feature) and gave up after hitting mid 2015.  I only found:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/not-receiving-email

Re: [mailop] Mail accepted by outlook.com/hotmail.com disappears.

[Aaron C. de Bruyn]

On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 11:25 AM, Michael Wise 
wrote:

> We **ARE** working on making it easier…
>
>
>
> Witness this (granted, if’s for Exchange Online, but):
>
>
>
> https://sender.office.com
>

Handy.  I'm stashing that link away.


> Is that shack for rent on weekends?
>

Yes.  You just have to put up with 10 ducks, 8 geese, 150 turkeys, 90
chickens, and 8 overly-friendly emu.  As a bonus, it's about 120 minutes
south of Redmond.  Let me know when you're coming and I'll have the fridge
stocked with beer.  ;)

Once again, I appreciate the help Michael.

-A
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Re: [mailop] Mail accepted by outlook.com/hotmail.com disappears.

[Michael Wise]

Acceptable by whom?
HotMail has been doing it for some time.
Many people external to Microsoft have noted this for some time…

It’s another policy we’re trying to change.

400+ Million customers online, tens of thousands of servers in many datacenters 
across the planet, all acting more or less as one.
And from time to time, throwing away stuff you find in the pipeline that “The 
Machine” says is toxic … has a certain appeal.

Aloha,
Michael.
--
Michael J Wise | Microsoft | Spam Analysis | "Your Spam Specimen Has Been 
Processed." | Got the Junk Mail Reporting 
Tool ?

From: Rodgers, Anthony (DTMB) [mailto:rodger...@michigan.gov]
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2016 11:29 AM
To: Michael Wise ; Aaron C. de Bruyn 
; mailop@mailop.org
Subject: RE: [mailop] Mail accepted by outlook.com/hotmail.com disappears.

“…delete it without delivering it to the intended recipient’s INBOX or Junk 
folder with no NDR…”

When did dropping mail on the floor become acceptable? Or am I just grumpy?

Nobody wants backscatter, but that’s what SMTP-time DSNs are for, no?

I realize that organizations like Outlook/Hotmail operate at a scale that I 
can’t even imagine, so I am ready and willing to be educated...

--
Anthony Rodgers
Security Analyst
Michigan Security Operations Center (MiSOC)
DTMB, Michigan Cyber Security

From: mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] On Behalf Of Michael Wise
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 20:39
To: Aaron C. de Bruyn mailto:aa...@heyaaron.com>>; 
mailop@mailop.org
Subject: Re: [mailop] Mail accepted by outlook.com/hotmail.com disappears.

Has the customer signed up for JMRP or SNDS?
Because if not, that would be step #0; see below.

And yes, under certain circumstances, Hotmail/Outlook will 250 the mail, and 
may then if it considers the IP sufficiently toxic, delete it without 
delivering it to the intended recipient’s INBOX or Junk folder with no NDR. The 
issue will be highlighted in the SNDS report, however.

And there is *NO-ONE* at Microsoft who is a contact who can get things running 
smoothly again.
The policy is cast in ferro-cement, no exceptions:


1)  Open a ticket and request mitigation for the IP(s) here: 
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=614866&clcid

2)  Wait and see what the machine thinks…

3)  If the IPs are not mitigated, reply to the email and request it, and 
provide as much detail as possible about:

A)  what happened,

B)  what you did to fix it,

C)  and why it Won’t Happen Again.

As to the programs that Senders should join, they are:

Join the Junk Mail Reporting Program (JMRP)
We believe that your recipients are the best indicator that the email you are 
sending is wanted.  The JMRP program allows you to see which of your emails 
Outlook.com users have marked as junk or unwanted mail.  Reviewing the results 
in JMRP will provide to the most direct information on what characteristics of 
your email, customers, and ultimately SmartScreen®, consider to be unwanted. 
This helpful feedback mechanism allows you to ensure that mails being sent from 
your IP are not resulting in negative feedback that could impact your sending 
reputation. Being vigilant about users who mark your e-mail as unwanted or the 
types of messages that are being marked as unwanted can help you keep mailing 
lists updated with only interested users and modify future campaigns. In 
addition, monitoring user complaints can help you identify unintended mail 
traffic or detect a potentially compromised account sending unwanted mail to 
your customers. Enroll at 
https://postmaster.live.com/snds/JMRP.aspx?wa=wsignin1.0.

Join the Smart Network Data Services program (SNDS)
The SNDS program provides data about traffic seen originating from your 
registered IP, such as mail volume and complaint rates. The data is built from 
the log files of the inbound mail machines and other servers at Outlook.com and 
Microsoft and represents factual information about the traffic from your mail 
servers to Outlook.com users. For more information about this free program 
refer to 
https://postmaster.live.com/snds/FAQ.aspx

Re: [mailop] Mail accepted by outlook.com/hotmail.com disappears.

[Michael Wise]

☺
Heh…
Dunno if I could tolerate that many farm animals, as I really need to sleep in 
on the weekends.

But I will keep it in mind. ☺
Although I’d prefer cider or, “Not Your Father’s Rootbeer” (that stuff goes 
down wickedfast)

Aloha,
Michael.
--
Michael J Wise | Microsoft | Spam Analysis | "Your Spam Specimen Has Been 
Processed." | Got the Junk Mail Reporting 
Tool ?

From: Aaron C. de Bruyn [mailto:aa...@heyaaron.com]
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2016 11:40 AM
To: Michael Wise 
Cc: Jay Hennigan ; mailop@mailop.org
Subject: Re: [mailop] Mail accepted by outlook.com/hotmail.com disappears.

On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 11:25 AM, Michael Wise 
mailto:michael.w...@microsoft.com>> wrote:
We *ARE* working on making it easier…

Witness this (granted, if’s for Exchange Online, but):


https://sender.office.com

Handy.  I'm stashing that link away.

Is that shack for rent on weekends?

Yes.  You just have to put up with 10 ducks, 8 geese, 150 turkeys, 90 chickens, 
and 8 overly-friendly emu.  As a bonus, it's about 120 minutes south of 
Redmond.  Let me know when you're coming and I'll have the fridge stocked with 
beer.  ;)

Once again, I appreciate the help Michael.

-A
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Re: [mailop] Mail accepted by outlook.com/hotmail.com disappears.

[Dominique Rousseau]

Hi Mike,

Le Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 12:38:36AM +, Michael Wise 
[michael.w...@microsoft.com] a écrit:
> Has the customer signed up for JMRP or SNDS?
> Because if not, that would be step #0; see below.

Thanks for the clear roadmap for getting feedback from Outlook/MS/Live !

(I never found such clear explanations of the steps, on MS postmaster
website or other)

-- 
Dominique Rousseau 
Neuronnexion, Prestataire Internet & Intranet
21 rue Frédéric Petit - 8 Amiens
tel: 03 22 71 61 90 - fax: 03 22 71 61 99 - http://www.neuronnexion.coop

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Re: [mailop] Mail accepted by outlook.com/hotmail.com disappears.

[Aaron C. de Bruyn]

On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Hal Murray  wrote:
>
> How much is their non-delivery problem costing them?  Be sure to include
> lost-time as well as charges that show up on a bill
>

Dealing with everyone except Microsoft took about 20 minutes.  Over 8
years, this is the first time it's come up.  Well under $100.


> An alternative thing to "give" would be getting infected and sending out
> spam.
>

They have 'special' software that only runs on Windows, so that's out of
the question.

>
> Is the spam going direct or through their mail server.  If direct, some
> firewall rules might block that.  If through the mail server, some volume
> limits might catch it sooner.
>

Yeah--they have a block on port 25 leaving their network excluding their
mail server.

In a way, I'm thankful that Microsoft is making it difficult to get
> delisted.
>  It makes people think about the cost-shifting they are doing.  They
> probably
> aren't thinking of it as cost-shifting, but at least they are becoming more
> aware of the problem.


By that logic, I'll start charging you $250 to get de-listed and you'll
become aware of the cost-shifting.  ;)
That's why it's supposed to be cooperative.  Once Company A starts putting
a huge burden on Company B, Company B will say 'screw it', your customers
can't e-mail me (or vice versa).

i.e. if I spam the hell out of your network and refuse to clean up my act,
you might block me permanently.  If your customers complained, they would
probably accept "aarons-email-service.com is a spam outfit, so they are
blocked", or "aarons-email-service.com decided to block us and there is
nothing we can do about it".

No one accepts "sorry, you can't e-mail {Microsoft,Google} and there's
nothing we can do about it".  The response will be "Ok, we're moving to
{Microsoft,Google}". Because they are too big to be at fault.

I remember a nasty bug with Chrome that caused printing problems on Windows
a few years back.  Something to do with an update that caused the TCP port
to hang open and never close.  Google said the fix would be out in ~2
months.  It took about 30 minutes to find it, and when the customer asked
what the problem was, we said "Google released an update to Chrome that has
a printing bug in it".  Well, the $50k accounting package the customer used
was Chrome-only (Firefox and IE simply would NOT work).  The response from
the customer was "Yeah, right.  You're fired." And they called in a
different IT company.  The solution from the new IT company was brilliant:
"Your former IT company was stupid.  I can't believe they put in these
crappy Supermicro servers.  Buy these Dell servers instead and we'll
migrate you."  3 months later they finished the migration and obviously the
fix for Chrome had been released by then.

-A
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Re: [mailop] Mail accepted by outlook.com/hotmail.com disappears.

[G. Miliotis]

On 18/3/2016 23:35, Hal Murray wrote:

In a way, I'm thankful that Microsoft is making it difficult to get delisted.
  It makes people think about the cost-shifting they are doing.  They probably
aren't thinking of it as cost-shifting, but at least they are becoming more
aware of the problem.

Rose-eyed glasses.

None of my customers have decided to shift costs, as you say. They 
simply blame me for not doing what they're paying me for, namely, manage 
their email. So, this is practicall hurting my reputation an dbusiness, 
not my customers'. Why? Because around here (Greece) more than 2 out of 
3 businesses still have a freemail address, of which at least 2/3 are 
hotmail.com and yahoo.gr addresses. So they just switch back to using 
that one.


What is happening here is that Microsoft is putting pressure on me to do 
one or more of the following:

a) move customers to exchange hosted services
b) advise the customer to return to their freemail address (because I'm 
not being paid enough to go through these hoops and then get stonewalled)

c) drop the customer

Which means, as far as I'm concerned, they get the customer anyway 
because I don't dare advise them to shut down their hotmail/msn 
addresses, just in case my servers are blocked again out of the blue.


--GM

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