Re: [mailop] Best mailbox provider for personal domain?

[Philip Paeps via mailop]

On 2022-04-10 00:26:16 (+0800), Tara Natanson via mailop wrote:

Thank you all for your responses.   I am happy to pay some, but
switching to google workspace with what I need would be 36$/month so
looking for a cheaper option than that.  Yes Google says there is a 
no-cost

option available but I did look into it and it won't work.

Biggest problem I'm having is that no one states in their advertising 
or

FAQs if they support "+" addressing.

Is anyone using the following services and can confirm if they support 
 "+"

addressing or not?
Dreamhost
 ZOHO
FASTMAIL -
iCloud-


I a Fastmail customer and would highly recommend them.

They support +-addressing and also offer something called "subdomain 
addressing":

https://www.fastmail.help/hc/en-us/articles/360060591053-Plus-addressing-and-subdomain-addressing

Fastmail is US$5/user/month for the standard plan.  If you've got users 
who don't use IMAP/POP, you can put them on the US$3/user/month basic 
plan and save a little bit.


(Note: I have no stake in Fastmail.  I am merely a happy paying 
customer.)


Philip

--
Philip Paeps
Senior Reality Engineer
Alternative Enterprises
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Re: [mailop] Best mailbox provider for personal domain?

[Ángel via mailop]

On 2022-04-10 at 18:35 +0100, Andrew C Aitchison via mailop wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Apr 2022, Byron Lunz via mailop wrote:
> 
> > I don't recall seeing any discussion in this thread about how to
> > migrate
> > old email messages from a Google Workspace account to a different
> > host.
> > Anyone have advice or suggestions on how to do that?
> 
> I haven't needed to do it myself but I believe there are good 
> IMAP-based tools for transferring emails from one server to another.
> 
> For the moment Gmail still suppports IMAP, though you may have to go 
> through hoops (such as "less secure apps" or XOAUTH2) to enable it for a 
> particular app/client.

The Swiss Army Knife of moving mailboxes with IMAP is imapsync(1)

As Tara has its own domain, I think XOAUTH2 would work. In any case,
there's always the less-secure-apps path (why is 2FA required for using
app passwords?). The main hurdle would probably be gmail throttle
limits. See https://imapsync.lamiral.info/FAQ.d/FAQ.Gmail.txt

Best regards


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Re: [mailop] Best mailbox provider for personal domain?

[Andy Ringsmuth via mailop]

> On Apr 10, 2022, at 9:40 AM, Byron Lunz via mailop  wrote:
> 
> I don't recall seeing any discussion in this thread about how to migrate old 
> email messages from a Google Workspace account to a different host. Anyone 
> have advice or suggestions on how to do that? 
> 

DreamHost does that quite seamlessly actually.



-Andy
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Re: [mailop] Best mailbox provider for personal domain?

[Alexander Huynh via mailop]

> On Apr 10, 2022, at 10:40, Byron Lunz via mailop  wrote:
> 
> I don't recall seeing any discussion in this thread about how to migrate old 
> email messages from a Google Workspace account to a different host. Anyone 
> have advice or suggestions on how to do that? 

You could use https://takeout.google.com/ to download an mbox format.

Querying "gmail api export eml site:github.com" into Google yields alternative 
methods for downloading a whole inbox using the Gmail API, but answers there 
are a bit old and might need some manual work.
-- 
Alex
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Re: [mailop] Best mailbox provider for personal domain?

[Mark Milhollan via mailop]

On Sun, 10 Apr 2022, Byron Lunz wrote:


I don't recall seeing any discussion in this thread about how to migrate
old email messages from a Google Workspace account to a different host.
Anyone have advice or suggestions on how to do that?


If you use a desktop MUA likely you just add the other service and drag 
the folder tree (that might move the messages+structure instead of 
copying it).  I don't know of a general service, nor if I'd trust it, 
but it isn't too difficult to do yourself using an IMAP tool (e.g., 
using a little throw-away VM somewhere) -- sometimes where you go has 
such a tool integrated into their control panel.



/mark
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Re: [mailop] Best mailbox provider for personal domain?

[Andrew C Aitchison via mailop]

On Sun, 10 Apr 2022, Byron Lunz via mailop wrote:


I don't recall seeing any discussion in this thread about how to migrate
old email messages from a Google Workspace account to a different host.
Anyone have advice or suggestions on how to do that?


I haven't needed to do it myself but I believe there are good 
IMAP-based tools for transferring emails from one server to another.


For the moment Gmail still suppports IMAP, though you may have to go 
through hoops (such as "less secure apps" or XOAUTH2) to enable it for a 
particular app/client.


--
Andrew C. Aitchison Kendal, UK
and...@aitchison.me.uk
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Re: [mailop] Best mailbox provider for personal domain?

[Byron Lunz via mailop]

I don't recall seeing any discussion in this thread about how to migrate
old email messages from a Google Workspace account to a different host.
Anyone have advice or suggestions on how to do that?


On Sat, Apr 9, 2022 at 9:15 PM Chris Woods via mailop 
wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, 9 Apr 2022, 21:38 Mark E. Jeftovic via mailop, 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Tara,
>>
>> We bundle 3 and 5 IMAP boxes with standard and pro dns packages (domain
>> reg + DNS + email) for $35/year and $55/year
>>
>> And yes, we support + addressing.
>>
>> We've also implemented SRS on your email forwarders.
>>
>> - mark
>> On 2022-04-09 12:26 PM, Tara Natanson via mailop wrote:
>>
>> Thank you all for your responses.   I am happy to pay some, but
>> switching to google workspace with what I need would be 36$/month so
>> looking for a cheaper option than that.  Yes Google says there is a no-cost
>> option available but I did look into it and it won't work.
>>
>> Biggest problem I'm having is that no one states in their advertising or
>> FAQs if they support "+" addressing.
>>
>> Is anyone using the following services and can confirm if they support
>> "+" addressing or not?
>> Dreamhost
>>  ZOHO
>> FASTMAIL -
>> iCloud-
>>
>> Tara
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 9, 2022 at 9:50 AM Byron Lunz  wrote:
>>
>>> Announcements about this from Google say that a "no cost option" will
>>> soon be announced, so it probably makes sense to wait a bit longer to see
>>> what that is. It *might* be a recommendation to move your domain to Google
>>> Domains, where you can get up to 100 email addresses forwarded to your
>>> free Gmail address. 
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 8, 2022 at 6:43 AM Tara Natanson via mailop <
>>> mailop@mailop.org> wrote:
>>>
 A while back there was a thread about the best place to host small biz
 domain email but I'm looking for something even smaller.

 I've got my personal domain hosted on gmail.  It's been there for more
 than 10 years and was grandfathered into their free hosting tier.  In June
 GMAIL is doing away with this plan and going to charge 5$/address per
 domain per month.  I've got dozens of addresses setup so this really isn't
 a good/affordable option anymore.

 Where would you recommend hosting your domain so that you can pop/imap,
 use "+" addressing, isn't spammer friendly, and basically works similar to
 gmail? I no longer have a website setup, so mail is the only thing I care
 about. I'm fine with a solution that has me setting up a new gmail account
 and just popping the mail to there, but what are folks using these days?
 (assuming I have no desire to run my own server)

 Thanks in advance for any recommendations!

 Tara Natanson

>>>
> Hello Tara,
>
> I've used Dreamhost for 15 years for family and a few friends' personal
> email and web sites. DH accounts support inbound plus addressing - just
> tested sending from gmail to one of my accounts.
>
> Dreamhost now do ingress and egress mail filtering via Mailchannels MXes
> (in my experience it occasionally catches a handful of false positives,
> worth checking the spam folder periodically but it's made a decent positive
> improvement to spam reaching inboxes. They also proactively monitor for any
> mailbox compromise or outbound spam through accounts.
>
> I recently recommitted on a three year plan as I blagged a decent price.
> Current introductory pricing for new customers is pretty good. I've hosted
> with them since 2007 and their service has been pretty solid throughout
> without price hikes.
>
> Their tech support is much better than it used to be - they started to
> scale up around 2009/2010 and struggled with some growing pains, but they
> dealt with it and shared hosting service has been good for years. (see
> dreamhoststatus.com) They've implemented some nice security improvements
> behind the scenes and still offer things like SSH which can be useful.
> Their mail hosting was also migrated to bigger, newer infrastructure a
> while back which improved performance.
>
> Support is ticket-based unless you pay for premium support, but they're
> actually helpful and responsive after a ticket is assigned to someone. I've
> very rarely needed to contact support over the last 15 odd years. Obviously
> all their hosting is in the US which may have GDPR/data export implications
> for commercial use.
>
> Shameless referral link: https://www.dreamhost.com/r.cgi?264181 though
> feel free to go direct.
>
> I host other personal and business services with various providers,
> including Mythic Beasts who have always provided gold standard service. But
> that's for VPSes I still have to manage and maintain. Compared to a
> specialist dedi/VPS provider, Dreamhost shared won't win site speed awards,
> but it's perfectly fine and they do offer optimisations and one-click
> installers for popular stuff. Certainly for my email needs, DH has always
> provided what I 

Re: [mailop] subaddresses, was Best mailbox provider for personal domain?

[Mark Milhollan via mailop]

On Sat, 9 Apr 2022, John Levine wrote:


PS: Gmail allows general plus addresses, Yahoo allows a limited
number, can't think of any other significant commercial mail system
that allows either.


Apart from whether they are significant I've found many others provide 
plus addressing / subaddresses, though if they are Qmail based generally 
they use a dash rather than a plus.


Microsoft's Exchange Online, Office365, and Microsoft365 can allow it 
generally as well.  Whether a + means plus addressing or is just another 
character is a per tenant setting with plus addressing as the default 
for new tenants but for existing tenants it depends on their existing 
addresses (if none have a + then plus is enabled else disabled).  I 
don't know if this applies to Hotmail/Live/Outlook. 



Fastmail was mentioned earlier, and they go beyond it using subdomains, 
i.e., mail...@example.com is the same as mailbox+anyth...@example.com as 
well as anyth...@mailbox.example.com provided you've got the DNS setup. 



Gmail also goes beyond it, in that they also ignore periods such that 
mailbox@, mail.box@, mailbo.x@, mailbox.@, etc., are all the same 
mailbox.  


Yahoo has "disposable" addresses that use a dash (quite expectable since 
they use qmail-ish), which are not automatic, you have to create them -- 
500 are allowed -- and they are limited generally to Plus subscribers. 



Verizon (nee Yahoo) Small Business does not appear to though at one time 
they were all hosted on the same platform as the Yahoo! (et al) brand 
(and might still be) so they might provide either plus or disposable.



/mark
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Re: [mailop] Uber users database leaked or user devices compromised?

[Mike D via mailop]

On 2022-04-09 14:28, Daniele Nicolodi via mailop wrote:


The only explanation I have is that either the user devices have been
compromised somehow or that an Uber users database (possibly with only
email addresses) has been hacked/leaked.


Many systems will allow you to login with multiple different identifiers 
(username, email address, phone number, etc). It is likely someone is 
attempting some bulk action against every phone number in your area, and 
Uber is helpfully sending a verification email to the associated 
account.

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Re: [mailop] Best mailbox provider for personal domain?

[Richard W via mailop]

I use Easydns with several domains.  I have used mailmaps on one and 
easymail on another for several years.  I am happy with both.


Richard

On 2022-04-09 3:54 p.m., Chris Woods via mailop wrote:



On Sat, 9 Apr 2022, 21:38 Mark E. Jeftovic via mailop, 
mailto:mailop@mailop.org>> wrote:


Hi Tara,

We bundle 3 and 5 IMAP boxes with standard and pro dns packages
(domain reg + DNS + email) for $35/year and $55/year

And yes, we support + addressing.

We've also implemented SRS on your email forwarders.

- mark

On 2022-04-09 12:26 PM, Tara Natanson via mailop wrote:

Thank you all for your responses.   I am happy to pay some, but
switching to google workspace with what I need would be 36$/month
so looking for a cheaper option than that. Yes Google says there
is a no-cost option available but I did look into it and it won't
work.

Biggest problem I'm having is that no one states in their
advertising or FAQs if they support "+" addressing.

Is anyone using the following services and can confirm if they
support  "+" addressing or not?
Dreamhost
 ZOHO
FASTMAIL -
iCloud-

Tara

On Sat, Apr 9, 2022 at 9:50 AM Byron Lunz mailto:byronl...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Announcements about this from Google say that a "no cost
option" will soon be announced, so it probably makes sense to
wait a bit longer to see what that is. It *might* be a
recommendation to move your domain to Google Domains, where
you can get up to 100 email addresses forwarded to your free
Gmail address. 

On Fri, Apr 8, 2022 at 6:43 AM Tara Natanson via mailop
mailto:mailop@mailop.org>> wrote:

A while back there was a thread about the best place to
host small biz domain email but I'm looking for something
even smaller.

I've got my personal domain hosted on gmail.  It's been
there for more than 10 years and was grandfathered into
their free hosting tier.  In June GMAIL is doing away with
this plan and going to charge 5$/address per domain per
month.  I've got dozens of addresses setup so this really
isn't a good/affordable option anymore.

Where would you recommend hosting your domain so that you
can pop/imap, use "+" addressing, isn't spammer friendly,
and basically works similar to gmail? I no longer have a
website setup, so mail is the only thing I care about. I'm
fine with a solution that has me setting up a new gmail
account and just popping the mail to there, but what are
folks using these days?  (assuming I have no desire to run
my own server)

Thanks in advance for any recommendations!

Tara Natanson



Hello Tara,

I've used Dreamhost for 15 years for family and a few friends' personal 
email and web sites. DH accounts support inbound plus addressing - just 
tested sending from gmail to one of my accounts.


Dreamhost now do ingress and egress mail filtering via Mailchannels MXes 
(in my experience it occasionally catches a handful of false positives, 
worth checking the spam folder periodically but it's made a decent 
positive improvement to spam reaching inboxes. They also proactively 
monitor for any mailbox compromise or outbound spam through accounts.


I recently recommitted on a three year plan as I blagged a decent price. 
Current introductory pricing for new customers is pretty good. I've 
hosted with them since 2007 and their service has been pretty solid 
throughout without price hikes.


Their tech support is much better than it used to be - they started to 
scale up around 2009/2010 and struggled with some growing pains, but 
they dealt with it and shared hosting service has been good for years. 
(see dreamhoststatus.com ) They've 
implemented some nice security improvements behind the scenes and still 
offer things like SSH which can be useful. Their mail hosting was also 
migrated to bigger, newer infrastructure a while back which improved 
performance.


Support is ticket-based unless you pay for premium support, but they're 
actually helpful and responsive after a ticket is assigned to someone. 
I've very rarely needed to contact support over the last 15 odd years. 
Obviously all their hosting is in the US which may have GDPR/data export 
implications for commercial use.


Shameless referral link: https://www.dreamhost.com/r.cgi?264181 
 though feel free to go direct.


I host other personal and business services with various providers, 
including Mythic Beasts who have always provided gold standard service. 
But that's for VPSes I still have to manage and maintain. Compared to a 
specialist dedi/VPS provider, Dreamhost shared won't win