MI Printing Fire Department Road Atlas

[Bob Regier]

Hi,
I am trying to set up an application in MapBasic to print a road atlas
for the fire department.  The atlas would show all the roads in the
Township and the locations of Fire hydrants (on about 30 8.5 X 11 map
sheets).  This would help the fire fighters to travel to the scene by
the best possible route and connect quickly to the nearest hydrant.

What is the best way to proceed?

I looked at the "cookie cutter" program on the MapInfo web site as a
place to start from, but I need the map pages  to overlap and all roads
need to print, even if their centroids aren't in the selected region.
This doesn't happen with that program.

Anyway  my questions are:
Is there a program on the MapInfo web site that does something like what
I want?
Is there a function in MapBasic that will allow me to specify the
coordinates of the map sheet area to print?
How do I orient the text vertically on the sides of the map to say "this
map continued on map sheet 12"?

Can you help?

Thanks,
Bob Regier


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Re: MI Best GIS for dollar

[John Haynes]

Which is the reason we only provide training on the 
client's site, using the client's data and solving the client's problems.  
We price higher than an "Authorized Training Site", but an 
engineering, trucking or cable client gets little benefit from a training 
session that has been populated by real estate and marketing 
people.
 
When our trainer leaves, the client is solving immediate company problems, 
making her boss very happy.  We have gained an insight to their operations 
and stand ready to help with other solutions. More Sales!!

-Original Message-From: 
Dick Hoskins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: 
Sinam Al-Khafaji <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: 
Friday, May 12, 2000 12:18 PMSubject: Re: MI Best GIS for 
dollar
You are exactly right but unfortunately most of the 
training I have been involved in from vendors has been way over priced( 
several hundred $'s/day) and not very good, if not awful. Some tech person 
talks in a monotone and reads line by line from a poorly prepared 
instruction manual that has an example dataset that has nothing to do with 
what the student needs to be working on. Effective training has to have 
an evaluation component to see if the student is understanding or retaining 
the material so that they can move on to the next topics in the course 
with confidence. I have never seen this done in commercial 
courses. 
 
I have found that the local community college does a far 
better job and charges for a 10 week course $100 or so. 
 
The GIS industry, as like the rest of the software world, 
needs to re-invent training programs. I'll bet if a serious study were done 
of current programs that the effectiveness would be rated at less than 10%, 
that is, the student retains less than 10%of the material 1 day after taking 
the course. But the responsibility is not all the vendor's. Companies send 
staff to software training and their management puts nothing in place to 
evaluate the effectiveness of the training or do they attempt to measure 
whether their investment paid off, and seldom do they give the staff member 
time to just sit at their terminal and go through the manual chapter by 
chapter. ESRI is putting affordable courses on the Internet, I have no 
idea if they are any good or not. 
 
Dick Hoskins[EMAIL PROTECTED]GIS uses in public 
health summer course:http://healthlinks.washington.edu/inpho/gis/course.html

- Original Message - 
From: 
Sinam Al-Khafaji 
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' 
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 7:46 
AM
Subject: RE: MI Best GIS for 
dollar

First  the disclaimer - I work for a 
MapInfo VAR and we have an ATC (Authorized Training 
Center).
 
With that said, whether ERSI, MapInfo, 
Maptitude, Mamifold, etc if you intend to be a power-user, or need a 
team of strong users,
it is essential to budget in training as 
well.  I've taken and taught training on both sides (MI & 
ESRI).  GIS, however convincing the marketing 
blush,
is a complex and difficult field for new 
users. Just understanding the concepts (and limitations) of 
geographic analysis takes time to digest.
 Its only user friendly if the user has a 
clue.  
 
Where time is money and a limited 
resource,  good training class can save you hours of 
wasted project time 
with an ever-approaching and unforgiving 
deadline. Even if you later switch products, a firm 
grasp of GIS concepts makes learning 
competitor software much easier.  Will any 
of us be using the same software in five years?  
Doubtful.
Eventually the GIS user is powerful, and the 
software just a tool.
 
When budgeting for software, budget for GIS 
training as well.  It will pay for itself tenfold regardless 
of the final product choice.

-Original Message-From: 
John Haynes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Friday, May 
12, 2000 7:27 AMTo: Dick Hoskins; Berk Charlton; [Sinam]  Subject: 
Re: MI Best GIS for dollar
Dick,
 
Perfectly put.  Very few of us use anywhere near the 
potential of any software; we learn what is necessary to do our 
tasks and complete our mission.  
 
It is great to be innovative but a couple of old expressions 
sum up the risk..."The first guy on the beach gets the 
bullet" and "The leading edge of the sword has the most 
nicks."  
 
I like to remember the lesson of Levi Strauss.  As 
t

Re: MI Best GIS for dollar

[Dick Hoskins]

You are exactly right but unfortunately most of the training I 
have been involved in from vendors has been way over priced( several hundred 
$'s/day) and not very good, if not awful. Some tech person talks in a monotone 
and reads line by line from a poorly prepared instruction manual that has an 
example dataset that has nothing to do with what the student needs to be working 
on. Effective training has to have an evaluation component to see if the 
student is understanding or retaining the material so that they can move on 
to the next topics in the course with confidence. I have never seen this 
done in commercial courses.  
 
I have found that the local community college does a far 
better job and charges for a 10 week course $100 or so. 
 
The GIS industry, as like the rest of the software world, 
needs to re-invent training programs. I'll bet if a serious study were done of 
current programs that the effectiveness would be rated at less than 10%, that 
is, the student retains less than 10%of the material 1 day after taking the 
course. But the responsibility is not all the vendor's. Companies send staff to 
software training and their management puts nothing in place to evaluate the 
effectiveness of the training or do they attempt to measure whether their 
investment paid off, and seldom do they give the staff member time to just sit 
at their terminal and go through the manual chapter by chapter. ESRI is 
putting affordable courses on the Internet, I have no idea if they are any good 
or not. 
 
Dick Hoskins[EMAIL PROTECTED]GIS uses in public 
health summer course:http://healthlinks.washington.edu/inpho/gis/course.html

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Sinam Al-Khafaji 
  To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' 
  Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 7:46 AM
  Subject: RE: MI Best GIS for dollar
  
  First  the disclaimer - I work for a MapInfo VAR 
  and we have an ATC (Authorized Training Center).
   
  With 
  that said, whether ERSI, MapInfo, Maptitude, Mamifold, etc if you intend 
  to be a power-user, or need a team of strong users,
  it 
  is essential to budget in training as well.  I've taken and taught 
  training on both sides (MI & ESRI).  GIS, however convincing the 
  marketing blush,
  is a 
  complex and difficult field for new users. Just understanding the 
  concepts (and limitations) of geographic analysis takes time to 
  digest.
   Its only user friendly if the user has a 
  clue.  
   
  Where time is money and a limited 
  resource,  good training class can save you hours of 
  wasted project time 
  with 
  an ever-approaching and unforgiving deadline. Even if you later switch 
  products, a firm grasp of GIS concepts makes 
  learning 
  competitor software much easier.  Will any of us 
  be using the same software in five years?  Doubtful.
  Eventually the GIS user is powerful, and the software 
  just a tool.
   
  When 
  budgeting for software, budget for GIS training as well.  It will 
  pay for itself tenfold regardless of the final product 
  choice.
  
-Original Message-From: John Haynes 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 7:27 
AMTo: Dick Hoskins; Berk Charlton; [Sinam]  Subject: 
Re: MI Best GIS for dollar
Dick,
 
Perfectly put.  Very few of us use anywhere near the potential of 
any software; we learn what is necessary to do our tasks and complete our 
mission.  
 
It is great to be innovative but a couple of old expressions sum up the 
risk..."The first guy on the beach gets the bullet" and "The leading edge of 
the sword has the most nicks."  
 
I like to remember the lesson of Levi Strauss.  As thousands 
gallumphed into the western horizon to grab the first chunk of gold, Levi 
loaded his goods in a slow wagon team and followed to sell them the standard 
commodities they would still need.

  -Original Message-From: 
  Dick Hoskins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: 
  Berk Charlton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: 
  Friday, May 12, 2000 12:10 AMSubject: Re: MI Best GIS for 
  dollar
  My cost of maintaining various editions of MI, with V 
  Mapper and data versus Maptitude and Surfer 6 and 7 and both product's 
  programming languages is 8 to 1. MI is around because my users had MI - 
  although no longer - ESRI made them a deal they couldn't refuse. So maybe 
  I won't upgrade. However if you have a job to do, saving money on software 
  and upgrades can certainly be a false economy. It of course depends on the 
  job. 
   
  However, not every GIS user is a developer, or ever 
  cares to make a GIS app beyond using the programming language to automate 
  their own task to support. There are a lot of people who need almost 
  industrial strength GIS tools to work on particular problems and get 
  things done. Maptitude and Manifold could fill this void. What I hea

RE: MI Best GIS for dollar

[Sinam Al-Khafaji]

First  the disclaimer - I work for a MapInfo VAR 
and we have an ATC (Authorized Training Center).
 
With 
that said, whether ERSI, MapInfo, Maptitude, Mamifold, etc if you intend to 
be a power-user, or need a team of strong users,
it 
is essential to budget in training as well.  I've taken and taught 
training on both sides (MI & ESRI).  GIS, however convincing the 
marketing blush,
is a 
complex and difficult field for new users. Just understanding the concepts 
(and limitations) of geographic analysis takes time to 
digest.
 Its only user friendly if the user has a 
clue.  
 
Where 
time is money and a limited resource,  good training class can 
save you hours of wasted project time 
with 
an ever-approaching and unforgiving deadline. Even if you later switch 
products, a firm grasp of GIS concepts makes 
learning 
competitor software much easier.  Will any of us 
be using the same software in five years?  Doubtful.
Eventually the GIS user is powerful, and the software 
just a tool.
 
When 
budgeting for software, budget for GIS training as well.  It will 
pay for itself tenfold regardless of the final product 
choice.

  -Original Message-From: John Haynes 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 7:27 
  AMTo: Dick Hoskins; Berk Charlton; [Sinam]  Subject: 
  Re: MI Best GIS for dollar
  Dick,
   
  Perfectly put.  Very few of us use anywhere near the potential of 
  any software; we learn what is necessary to do our tasks and complete our 
  mission.  
   
  It is great to be innovative but a couple of old expressions sum up the 
  risk..."The first guy on the beach gets the bullet" and "The leading edge of 
  the sword has the most nicks."  
   
  I like to remember the lesson of Levi Strauss.  As thousands 
  gallumphed into the western horizon to grab the first chunk of gold, Levi 
  loaded his goods in a slow wagon team and followed to sell them the standard 
  commodities they would still need.
  
-Original Message-From: 
Dick Hoskins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Berk 
Charlton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: 
Friday, May 12, 2000 12:10 AMSubject: Re: MI Best GIS for 
dollar
My cost of maintaining various editions of MI, with V 
Mapper and data versus Maptitude and Surfer 6 and 7 and both product's 
programming languages is 8 to 1. MI is around because my users had MI - 
although no longer - ESRI made them a deal they couldn't refuse. So maybe I 
won't upgrade. However if you have a job to do, saving money on software and 
upgrades can certainly be a false economy. It of course depends on the job. 

 
However, not every GIS user is a developer, or ever cares 
to make a GIS app beyond using the programming language to automate their 
own task to support. There are a lot of people who need almost industrial 
strength GIS tools to work on particular problems and get things done. 
Maptitude and Manifold could fill this void. What I hear from Manifold and 
Maptitude sure indicates that they are not exactly stuck ... new things are 
going to appear which I don't think ESRI or MI are capable of doing now 
because they are "stuck" in a GIS paradigm that won't be here in 5 years. 

 
Of courser, it depends on what you need to do, and I would 
submit that a whole lot of people are spending $1400 when they could be 
spending $400. Seems that MI is not exactly preparing for when folks figure 
that out. 
 
Dick Hoskins[EMAIL PROTECTED]GIS uses in public 
health summer course:http://healthlinks.washington.edu/inpho/gis/course.html
- Original Message - 
From: "Berk Charlton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 3:06 PM
Subject: RE: MI Best GIS for dollar
> For what it's worth -> > 
Overall, I have to agree that Maptitude is the best generic GIS value.  
Great> data set, good functionality, fabulous import/export 
capability, built in> routing, etc.> > But there are 
still plenty of reasons to go with other more expensive packages.> 
> A major factor in deciding which GIS use for many of us is the 3rd 
party tools> available.  Mapinfo and Arcview both have hundreds 
of free public domain> utilities and programs available, and dozens 
more for sale.  Practically any> vertical market need a user 
has, from site selection to watershed analysis, has> been covered by 
the third party developer and VAR channel.> > Maptitude is 
really deficient here, even though the package has a good> 
programming language.  Maptitude's sale price is so low that Caliper 
can't> afford to have a decent reseller program (nor have they ever 
tried hard to> cultivate one), which forces them to try to do 
everything in-house.  Hence, they> have a good generic package, 
but very little vertical market tools or> penetration. 

MI Friday Humor: Married Go Round?

[John Hoffmann]

Two ladies were hanging out together and one was depressed. "What's
wrong?"

The depressed one replied, "I've been married four times and every one
of my husbands has passed away."

The other lady asked, "What did they used to do?"

The depressed lady replied, "Well, my first husband was a millionaire,
the second was a magician, the third was an evangelist, and the
fourth was a mortician."

And the other said, "Oh, I see, one for the money, two for the show,
three to get ready, and four to go...

May 12th in History . . .

* 1777 - 1st ice cream advertisement (Philip Lenzi-NY Gazette)
* 1951 - 1st H Bomb test, on Enewetak Atoll


-- 

John H. Hoffmann

Personal
 E-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

"A coupla months in the laboratory can save
 a coupla hours in the library."
- Westheimer's Discovery
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MI: Olympic Torch Relay - Sunsets and Sunrise?

[Antony Burnett]

Hi all,

Apologies for the size of this email, I hope all mapinfo-l listers understand. A
bit off topic but I'm looking for assistance to populate a table of sunrise and
sunset times for each day of the Torch Relay through Australia.  The Torch Relay
is finally underway, currently travelling around Greece before SOCOG takes over
from Guam in the Pacific.

To all those people who offered their help before, thank you.

The following table shows the date, and coords of each of the final destinations
of the Torch Relay for each day. I know of one website that can calculate
sunrise and sunset (www.auslig.gov.au), but it is clunky to use when one has no
time. I'm sure someone out there in MapInfo land has a more efficient means of
obtaining the data. To calculate sunrise, we can use the coords of the previous
days final destination. Coordinates are AGD66 multiplied by 1,000,000. ie (
133862436,-23705209) is (133.86E, 23.70S)

I haven't made any allowance for Olympic Daylight Savings Time, where we put our
clocks forward by 1.5 hours (I kid you not) for the Games.

Any help mapinfo-l can provide is greatly appreciated! Again, sorry for the size
of the email

Ant Burnett
Sydney 2000 Olympic Torch Relay
Sydney Australia

DayID DayDate   Town State XCoord YCoordGMT
108-Jun-00 Alice Springs
 NT   133862436
-23705209 GMT+9.5
209-Jun-00 Mount Isa
  QLD  139490137
-20729724 GMT+10
310-Jun-00 Toowoomba
  QLD  151951146
-27570614 GMT+10
411-Jun-00 Coolangatta
 QLD  153534530
-28171548 GMT+10
512-Jun-00 Woodridge
  QLD  153101630
-27638740 GMT+10
613-Jun-00 Ipswich
  QLD  152758187
-27615800 GMT+10
714-Jun-00 Brisbane
  QLD  153021596
-27471368 GMT+10
815-Jun-00 Bokarina
  QLD  153131535
-26736011 GMT+10
916-Jun-00 Tewantin
  QLD  153021711
-26389730 GMT+10
10   17-Jun-00 Kingaroy
  QLD  151834611
-26546397 GMT+10
11   18-Jun-00 Hervey Bay
  QLD  152872240
-25285350 GMT+10
12   19-Jun-00 Bundaberg
  QLD  152346560
-24872195 GMT+10
13   20-Jun-00 Rockhampton
 QLD  150504978
-23379450 GMT+10
14   21-Jun-00 Emerald
  QLD  148156734
-23527264 GMT+10
15   22-Jun-00 Mackay
  QLD  149186440
-21144375 GMT+10
16   23-Jun-00 Airlie Beach
 QLD  148711236
-20270198 GMT+10
17   24-Jun-00 Townsville
  QLD  146814908
-19264480 GMT+10
18   25-Jun-00 Innisfail
  QLD  146029419
-17527401 GMT+10
19   26-Jun-00 Cairns
  QLD  145774020
-16923354 GMT+10
20   27-Jun-00 Port Douglas
 QLD  145464176
-16483761 GMT+10
21   28-Jun-00 Katherine
  NT   132262992
-14465092 GMT+9.5
22   29-Jun-00 The Gardens
 NT   130835313
-12451924 GMT+9.5
23   30-Jun-00 Broome
  WA   122231421
-17957006 GMT+8
24   01-Jul-00 Carnarvon
  WA   113654378
-24886769 GMT+8
25   02-Jul-00 Albany
  WA   117880777
-35024588 GMT+8
26   03-Jul-00 Manjimup
  WA   116142062
-34243750 GMT+8
27   04-Jul-00 Bunbury
  WA   115634310
-33327633 GMT+8
28   05-Jul-00 Mandurah
  WA   115731709
-32536758 GMT+8
29   06-Jul-00 Fremantle
  WA   115749570
-32057073 GMT+8
30   07-Jul-00 Joondalup
  WA   115763754
-31746424 GMT+8
31   08-Jul-00 Burswood
   

MI MapXtreme/Bluestone

[Doug Kunzman]

Hi,
 
We are thinking about using Bluestone 
sapphire/web  as an Application Server for MapXtreme rather 
than
Haht.  I was wondering if anyone went this 
route would be willing to talk to me about any issues/problems that
came up.  I would also be interested in 
talking with anyone who has used another application server
rather than Haht and what they 
learned.
 
Thanks,
Doug Kunzman
Lead Software Developer
SkyBitz Technologies
703-478-2373
 

Re: MI Best GIS for dollar

[John Haynes]

Dick,
 
Perfectly put.  Very few of us use anywhere near the potential of any 
software; we learn what is necessary to do our tasks and complete our 
mission.  
 
It is great to be innovative but a couple of old expressions sum up the 
risk..."The first guy on the beach gets the bullet" and "The 
leading edge of the sword has the most nicks."  
 
I like to remember the lesson of Levi Strauss.  As thousands 
gallumphed into the western horizon to grab the first chunk of gold, Levi loaded 
his goods in a slow wagon team and followed to sell them the standard 
commodities they would still need.

-Original Message-From: 
Dick Hoskins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Berk 
Charlton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: 
Friday, May 12, 2000 12:10 AMSubject: Re: MI Best GIS for 
dollar
My cost of maintaining various editions of MI, with V 
Mapper and data versus Maptitude and Surfer 6 and 7 and both product's 
programming languages is 8 to 1. MI is around because my users had MI - 
although no longer - ESRI made them a deal they couldn't refuse. So maybe I 
won't upgrade. However if you have a job to do, saving money on software and 
upgrades can certainly be a false economy. It of course depends on the job. 

 
However, not every GIS user is a developer, or ever cares 
to make a GIS app beyond using the programming language to automate their 
own task to support. There are a lot of people who need almost industrial 
strength GIS tools to work on particular problems and get things done. 
Maptitude and Manifold could fill this void. What I hear from Manifold and 
Maptitude sure indicates that they are not exactly stuck ... new things are 
going to appear which I don't think ESRI or MI are capable of doing now 
because they are "stuck" in a GIS paradigm that won't be here in 5 
years. 
 
Of courser, it depends on what you need to do, and I would 
submit that a whole lot of people are spending $1400 when they could be 
spending $400. Seems that MI is not exactly preparing for when folks figure 
that out. 
 
Dick Hoskins[EMAIL PROTECTED]GIS uses in public 
health summer course:http://healthlinks.washington.edu/inpho/gis/course.html
- Original Message - 
From: "Berk Charlton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 3:06 PM
Subject: RE: MI Best GIS for dollar
> For what it's worth -> > 
Overall, I have to agree that Maptitude is the best generic GIS value.  
Great> data set, good functionality, fabulous import/export 
capability, built in> routing, etc.> > But there are 
still plenty of reasons to go with other more expensive packages.> 
> A major factor in deciding which GIS use for many of us is the 3rd 
party tools> available.  Mapinfo and Arcview both have hundreds 
of free public domain> utilities and programs available, and dozens 
more for sale.  Practically any> vertical market need a user 
has, from site selection to watershed analysis, has> been covered by 
the third party developer and VAR channel.> > Maptitude is 
really deficient here, even though the package has a good> 
programming language.  Maptitude's sale price is so low that Caliper 
can't> afford to have a decent reseller program (nor have they ever 
tried hard to> cultivate one), which forces them to try to do 
everything in-house.  Hence, they> have a good generic package, 
but very little vertical market tools or> penetration.  Routing 
applications are the one exception, which Caliper has> developed 
in-house.> > And there's something to be said for critical 
mass.  ESRI and Mapinfo have most> of the market share, most of 
the trained GIS users, and most of the installed> base. If your 
company is making mission critical decisions with GIS, and you> need 
to find trained GIS users with experience in your particular industry, 
the> extra expense of going with an established market leader is 
inconsequential> compared to the risk of making bad operational 
decisions by trying to save a few> bucks up front.> > 
Berk Charlton> Geographic Marketing Solutions.> > 
> > -Original Message-> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On 
Behalf Of Leore, Robert> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 9:41 
AM> > To: MapInfo-L> > Subject: RE: MI Best GIS for 
dollar> >> >> > Maptitude by Caliper is the 
best GIS for the dollar.  At US$395 it is the> > cheapest 
path to a full-featured GIS.  I used to use MI but I now use> 
> Maptitude and its big brother TransCAD exclusively.  Check these 
programs> > out at www.caliper.com.> >> > 
Bob> >> >> >> > > > Hi 
Everyone,> > > >> > > > I have been reading 
the threads on MI and ArcView in the same office and> > > 
am> > > > interested i