Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
Am 27.06.13 06:28, schrieb Kadal Amutham: My simple question why this wastage of effort and what purpose it serves? You see this not only in Free software. How meny foundations for cancer exists worldwide? or how many organizations cares about people with disability. I can tell you stories of paralell efforts in Sport handicap. We in Switzerland has alown 4 head organizations for sport handicap, and this in a small country like Switzerland. There are different reasons for this behavure. One of the moast important is the unwillingness to make compromises personal interests and egoisme. An aditional problem of free software is the ability to fork wich is at the same time a big avantage. You have not to start from the scratch. If you are unhappy with the project, you can simply take the source, and doing your own docfood. The problem is, you can split a project very fast, but bring it togeter again is much harder. OpenOffice and LibreOffice are similar, but not the same. mainly in the way we did the work, we have big differences. We have a different developing strategy. LibO for exemple allows desicions outside Mailing lists. At Apache this is forbidden. The release process of LibO is much easyer as the one of Apache OpenOffice, but esyer means also less restrictiv. And last but not least, there are huge commercial interests in both project. Don't forget, the program it self is 90 % and more done by paid developers, not by volunteers. This is the case for Apache OpenOffice and LibreOffice. We at Apache call all volunteers, but this dosn't mean, that this people are not payed for there work. Same are not, yes, but many are. Greetings Raphael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: marketing-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: marketing-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
Software is about ideas, freedom is about taking those ideas the way you want to. Forking is something that is natural in real life all the time. You take ideas from others, make it your own, and share your version of the idea. The Apache philosophy is a different set of ideas than the GPL one. It would be very insensitive to tell 2 different people to forget their ideas and work together because they are doing the same thing. Also just because you don't agree doesnt mean we will do as you say. On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Kadal Amutham vka...@gmail.com wrote: I am new to this FLOSS world. But it appears to me as follows. We are complicating ourselves and get entangled into the complication. With Warm Regards V.Kadal Amutham 919444360480 914422396480 On 27 June 2013 11:02, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 11:28 PM, Kadal Amutham vka...@gmail.com wrote: My simple question why this wastage of effort and what purpose it serves? Because we have two different licenses, Apache and GPL. These are incompatible, there really is legal ramifications and benefits to have two different licensed code of the same source. That said, this happens a lot in fLOSS, gnome vs kde, emacs, vs vim, sodipodi vs inkscape. FLOSS is the hability to fork. With Warm Regards V.Kadal Amutham 919444360480 914422396480 On 27 June 2013 09:25, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: you can argue the same thing for every different linux distro. Thre are mantainers of the same software packages on two (or actually many) Linux distributions which are different FTP servers all over the internet that end up on the same mirrors. Volunteers do repetitive marketing and localization tasks for each distro. welcome to free software. On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Kadal Amutham vka...@apache.org wrote: Both LibreOffice and OpenOffice are developed by fully / mostly by volunteers. Both serve the same purpose. Two separate teams of volunteers are doing the same work. In both teams, many volunteers are translating same sentences repeatedly. As you are aware volunteers are not paid. So the time and effort of volunteers are very precious and one should be very careful that there is no wastage. In my opinion any wastage of volunteers effort and time is a crime. I am sorry to say that this crime is happening in both LO and AOO V.Kadal Amutham -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://www.openoffice.org -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://www.openoffice.org -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://www.openoffice.org
Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
And last but not least, there are huge commercial interests in both project. Don't forget, the program it self is 90 % and more done by paid developers, not by volunteers. This is the case for Apache OpenOffice and LibreOffice. We at Apache call all volunteers, but this doesn't mean, that this people are not payed for their work. Same are not, yes, but many are. Things are getting more complicated now. So the effort of volunteers are commercialized. If the above statement is true, then it is better to call volunteers as unpaid laborers. With Warm Regards V.Kadal Amutham 919444360480 914422396480 On 27 June 2013 11:38, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: Software is about ideas, freedom is about taking those ideas the way you want to. Forking is something that is natural in real life all the time. You take ideas from others, make it your own, and share your version of the idea. The Apache philosophy is a different set of ideas than the GPL one. It would be very insensitive to tell 2 different people to forget their ideas and work together because they are doing the same thing. Also just because you don't agree doesnt mean we will do as you say. On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Kadal Amutham vka...@gmail.com wrote: I am new to this FLOSS world. But it appears to me as follows. We are complicating ourselves and get entangled into the complication. With Warm Regards V.Kadal Amutham 919444360480 914422396480 On 27 June 2013 11:02, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 11:28 PM, Kadal Amutham vka...@gmail.com wrote: My simple question why this wastage of effort and what purpose it serves? Because we have two different licenses, Apache and GPL. These are incompatible, there really is legal ramifications and benefits to have two different licensed code of the same source. That said, this happens a lot in fLOSS, gnome vs kde, emacs, vs vim, sodipodi vs inkscape. FLOSS is the hability to fork. With Warm Regards V.Kadal Amutham 919444360480 914422396480 On 27 June 2013 09:25, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: you can argue the same thing for every different linux distro. Thre are mantainers of the same software packages on two (or actually many) Linux distributions which are different FTP servers all over the internet that end up on the same mirrors. Volunteers do repetitive marketing and localization tasks for each distro. welcome to free software. On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Kadal Amutham vka...@apache.org wrote: Both LibreOffice and OpenOffice are developed by fully / mostly by volunteers. Both serve the same purpose. Two separate teams of volunteers are doing the same work. In both teams, many volunteers are translating same sentences repeatedly. As you are aware volunteers are not paid. So the time and effort of volunteers are very precious and one should be very careful that there is no wastage. In my opinion any wastage of volunteers effort and time is a crime. I am sorry to say that this crime is happening in both LO and AOO V.Kadal Amutham -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://www.openoffice.org -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://www.openoffice.org -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://www.openoffice.org
[UX][DESIGN EXPLORATION] - flat application icons
Hello all, I've updated my flat application icons design exploration to show the icons adjacent to the new flat logo. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO4+-+Desktop+Icons Scroll to end of page to see the flat icons. Thoughts? Regards, Kevin
Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 1:17 AM, Kadal Amutham vka...@gmail.com wrote: And last but not least, there are huge commercial interests in both project. Don't forget, the program it self is 90 % and more done by paid developers, not by volunteers. This is the case for Apache OpenOffice and LibreOffice. We at Apache call all volunteers, but this doesn't mean, that this people are not payed for their work. Same are not, yes, but many are. Things are getting more complicated now. So the effort of volunteers are commercialized. If the above statement is true, then it is better to call volunteers as unpaid laborers. Not really, you can commercialize OpenOffice, anyway you want. Most of FLOSS model are build on the provision of services, from migrations to costumization for specific needs of costumers. However is true that this right can be taken by indiviudals the same way as large corporations with many costumers around the world and brand recognition, and hordes of sales people ready to charge you for FLOSS products. The comercialization on the community goes in the way that many core developers have corporate agendas that can skew the way the community approach the development route. You can always re-fork these efforts but really is a question that is common on every society. A group of people focused on the same thing, can lead better than a larger group with no focus roaming around with no common target. With Warm Regards V.Kadal Amutham 919444360480 914422396480 On 27 June 2013 11:38, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: Software is about ideas, freedom is about taking those ideas the way you want to. Forking is something that is natural in real life all the time. You take ideas from others, make it your own, and share your version of the idea. The Apache philosophy is a different set of ideas than the GPL one. It would be very insensitive to tell 2 different people to forget their ideas and work together because they are doing the same thing. Also just because you don't agree doesnt mean we will do as you say. On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Kadal Amutham vka...@gmail.com wrote: I am new to this FLOSS world. But it appears to me as follows. We are complicating ourselves and get entangled into the complication. With Warm Regards V.Kadal Amutham 919444360480 914422396480 On 27 June 2013 11:02, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 11:28 PM, Kadal Amutham vka...@gmail.com wrote: My simple question why this wastage of effort and what purpose it serves? Because we have two different licenses, Apache and GPL. These are incompatible, there really is legal ramifications and benefits to have two different licensed code of the same source. That said, this happens a lot in fLOSS, gnome vs kde, emacs, vs vim, sodipodi vs inkscape. FLOSS is the hability to fork. With Warm Regards V.Kadal Amutham 919444360480 914422396480 On 27 June 2013 09:25, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: you can argue the same thing for every different linux distro. Thre are mantainers of the same software packages on two (or actually many) Linux distributions which are different FTP servers all over the internet that end up on the same mirrors. Volunteers do repetitive marketing and localization tasks for each distro. welcome to free software. On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Kadal Amutham vka...@apache.org wrote: Both LibreOffice and OpenOffice are developed by fully / mostly by volunteers. Both serve the same purpose. Two separate teams of volunteers are doing the same work. In both teams, many volunteers are translating same sentences repeatedly. As you are aware volunteers are not paid. So the time and effort of volunteers are very precious and one should be very careful that there is no wastage. In my opinion any wastage of volunteers effort and time is a crime. I am sorry to say that this crime is happening in both LO and AOO V.Kadal Amutham -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://www.openoffice.org -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://www.openoffice.org -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://www.openoffice.org -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://www.openoffice.org
Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 1:33 AM, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 1:17 AM, Kadal Amutham vka...@gmail.com wrote: And last but not least, there are huge commercial interests in both project. Don't forget, the program it self is 90 % and more done by paid developers, not by volunteers. This is the case for Apache OpenOffice and LibreOffice. We at Apache call all volunteers, but this doesn't mean, that this people are not payed for their work. Same are not, yes, but many are. Things are getting more complicated now. So the effort of volunteers are commercialized. If the above statement is true, then it is better to call volunteers as unpaid laborers. Not really, you can commercialize OpenOffice, anyway you want. Most of FLOSS model are build on the provision of services, from migrations to costumization for specific needs of costumers. However is true that this right can be taken by indiviudals the same way as large corporations with many costumers around the world and brand recognition, and hordes of sales people ready to charge you for FLOSS products. The comercialization on the community goes in the way that many core developers have corporate agendas that can skew the way the community approach the development route. You can always re-fork these efforts but really is a question that is common on every society. A group of people focused on the same thing, can lead better than a larger group with no focus roaming around with no common target. It is also important to mention, that this is a meritocracy, so we heavily rely on what people do, more than what people say. Although in my experience, people are still more sensitive to what is being agreed upon on top of an existing contribution. With Warm Regards V.Kadal Amutham 919444360480 914422396480 On 27 June 2013 11:38, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: Software is about ideas, freedom is about taking those ideas the way you want to. Forking is something that is natural in real life all the time. You take ideas from others, make it your own, and share your version of the idea. The Apache philosophy is a different set of ideas than the GPL one. It would be very insensitive to tell 2 different people to forget their ideas and work together because they are doing the same thing. Also just because you don't agree doesnt mean we will do as you say. On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Kadal Amutham vka...@gmail.com wrote: I am new to this FLOSS world. But it appears to me as follows. We are complicating ourselves and get entangled into the complication. With Warm Regards V.Kadal Amutham 919444360480 914422396480 On 27 June 2013 11:02, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 11:28 PM, Kadal Amutham vka...@gmail.com wrote: My simple question why this wastage of effort and what purpose it serves? Because we have two different licenses, Apache and GPL. These are incompatible, there really is legal ramifications and benefits to have two different licensed code of the same source. That said, this happens a lot in fLOSS, gnome vs kde, emacs, vs vim, sodipodi vs inkscape. FLOSS is the hability to fork. With Warm Regards V.Kadal Amutham 919444360480 914422396480 On 27 June 2013 09:25, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: you can argue the same thing for every different linux distro. Thre are mantainers of the same software packages on two (or actually many) Linux distributions which are different FTP servers all over the internet that end up on the same mirrors. Volunteers do repetitive marketing and localization tasks for each distro. welcome to free software. On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Kadal Amutham vka...@apache.org wrote: Both LibreOffice and OpenOffice are developed by fully / mostly by volunteers. Both serve the same purpose. Two separate teams of volunteers are doing the same work. In both teams, many volunteers are translating same sentences repeatedly. As you are aware volunteers are not paid. So the time and effort of volunteers are very precious and one should be very careful that there is no wastage. In my opinion any wastage of volunteers effort and time is a crime. I am sorry to say that this crime is happening in both LO and AOO V.Kadal Amutham -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://www.openoffice.org -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://www.openoffice.org -- Alexandro Colorado Apache
Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
Kadal Amutham wrote: Two separate teams of volunteers are doing the same work. Teams are not necessarily separated. I am sorry to say that this crime is happening in both LO and AOO All contributions made to OpenOffice (or to Apache projects in general) can be freely reused (and some are actively being reused) in other projects, due to license compatibility in this direction. Technically, a contribution under the Apache License can be taken and included with no problems in a project under the MPL license. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: marketing-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: marketing-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
Am 27.06.13 08:17, schrieb Kadal Amutham: And last but not least, there are huge commercial interests in both project. Don't forget, the program it self is 90 % and more done by paid developers, not by volunteers. This is the case for Apache OpenOffice and LibreOffice. We at Apache call all volunteers, but this doesn't mean, that this people are not payed for their work. Same are not, yes, but many are. Things are getting more complicated now. So the effort of volunteers are commercialized. If the above statement is true, then it is better to call volunteers as unpaid laborers. Yes, and you have to live with it. I say everytime, free software is no carity, it is height commercial, No matter if you take Linux, OpenOffice or Apache HTTP. But this is not a problem, this is the way it works. You are simply not able to run big projects on a pure volunteer base. Companies make Billions $ with OpenSource. but they put also a lot of menpower into it. Without this manpower big project will never left experimental status. It's a giving ant taking. Same people think Open Source is against the big companies. This was maybe the case in the very first years. But the fact is, Big companies feeding OSS. Remember, OpenOffice was a comercial product. It was StarOffice and SUN released it under a OSS Lisence. Without SUN we would not have OpenOffice and all it's devirate today. Greetings Raphael With Warm Regards V.Kadal Amutham 919444360480 914422396480 On 27 June 2013 11:38, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: Software is about ideas, freedom is about taking those ideas the way you want to. Forking is something that is natural in real life all the time. You take ideas from others, make it your own, and share your version of the idea. The Apache philosophy is a different set of ideas than the GPL one. It would be very insensitive to tell 2 different people to forget their ideas and work together because they are doing the same thing. Also just because you don't agree doesnt mean we will do as you say. On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Kadal Amutham vka...@gmail.com wrote: I am new to this FLOSS world. But it appears to me as follows. We are complicating ourselves and get entangled into the complication. With Warm Regards V.Kadal Amutham 919444360480 914422396480 On 27 June 2013 11:02, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 11:28 PM, Kadal Amutham vka...@gmail.com wrote: My simple question why this wastage of effort and what purpose it serves? Because we have two different licenses, Apache and GPL. These are incompatible, there really is legal ramifications and benefits to have two different licensed code of the same source. That said, this happens a lot in fLOSS, gnome vs kde, emacs, vs vim, sodipodi vs inkscape. FLOSS is the hability to fork. With Warm Regards V.Kadal Amutham 919444360480 914422396480 On 27 June 2013 09:25, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: you can argue the same thing for every different linux distro. Thre are mantainers of the same software packages on two (or actually many) Linux distributions which are different FTP servers all over the internet that end up on the same mirrors. Volunteers do repetitive marketing and localization tasks for each distro. welcome to free software. On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Kadal Amutham vka...@apache.org wrote: Both LibreOffice and OpenOffice are developed by fully / mostly by volunteers. Both serve the same purpose. Two separate teams of volunteers are doing the same work. In both teams, many volunteers are translating same sentences repeatedly. As you are aware volunteers are not paid. So the time and effort of volunteers are very precious and one should be very careful that there is no wastage. In my opinion any wastage of volunteers effort and time is a crime. I am sorry to say that this crime is happening in both LO and AOO V.Kadal Amutham -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://www.openoffice.org -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://www.openoffice.org -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://www.openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: marketing-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: marketing-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [UX][DESIGN EXPLORATION] - flat application icons
The Logo for templates can have a T in the icon. With Warm Regards V.Kadal Amutham 919444360480 914422396480 On 27 June 2013 12:01, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, I've updated my flat application icons design exploration to show the icons adjacent to the new flat logo. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO4+-+Desktop+Icons Scroll to end of page to see the flat icons. Thoughts? Regards, Kevin
Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
On 6/27/13 8:42 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: Kadal Amutham wrote: Two separate teams of volunteers are doing the same work. Teams are not necessarily separated. I am sorry to say that this crime is happening in both LO and AOO All contributions made to OpenOffice (or to Apache projects in general) can be freely reused (and some are actively being reused) in other projects, due to license compatibility in this direction. Technically, a contribution under the Apache License can be taken and included with no problems in a project under the MPL license. well it was never 100% clarified from my pov or Iam to lazy to understand it. But my understanding is that LO or the major parts of their source code is under ALv2 and they can't withdraw the ALv2 license even if it looks so. They can only put their changes and extensions to the code under a different license. LO don't talk about it and from my pov it looks not correct how they does it. But I am no lawyer and it seems that nobody is really interested to clarify this finally. And of course for newbies in their code it looks that everything is from them. Juergen Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: marketing-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: marketing-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: marketing-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: marketing-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 11:50 PM, Kadal Amutham vka...@apache.org wrote: Both LibreOffice and OpenOffice are developed by fully / mostly by volunteers. Both serve the same purpose. Two separate teams of volunteers are doing the same work. In both teams, many volunteers are translating same sentences repeatedly. As you are aware volunteers are not paid. So the time and effort of volunteers are very precious and one should be very careful that there is no wastage. In my opinion any wastage of volunteers effort and time is a crime. I am sorry to say that this crime is happening in both LO and AOO Any suggestions for how to reduce or eliminate wastage? Since AOO and LO differ at the UI level, the translations will not be identical. But the basic terminology is almost identical. And we're using the same tools (Pootle). So maybe an opportunity to develop shared glossaries of common terms and phrases? And remember, any contribution to AOO is immediately usable by LO. In fact, LO office integrates many (most?) of our code changes. And if a LO volunteer wants their work to be usable by AOO as well, then they just need to say so. At the individual level it is entirely under their control if they want to license their contributions under Apache License as well as LGPL/MPL. If they do that then both projects can use the code. I wonder if they are not aware that they may do this? Regards, -Rob V.Kadal Amutham - To unsubscribe, e-mail: marketing-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: marketing-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Copy of mail sent to LibreOffice
LO is not using Pootle. At the least, I was given a simple text file to translate. When I went to Pootle site, it is announces that LO is using Pootle but no mention about AOO. As you suggested , glossary will be useful in both cases. But in AOO, many a times one has to translate repeatedly same sentence / phrase. And in Pootle, one can not copy paste the translation, since at any point of not more than 9 sentences are displayed. This issue needs attention With Warm Regards V.Kadal Amutham 919444360480 914422396480 On 27 June 2013 16:40, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: Jürgen Schmidt wrote: On 6/27/13 8:42 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: All contributions made to OpenOffice (or to Apache projects in general) can be freely reused (and some are actively being reused) in other projects, due to license compatibility in this direction. Technically, a contribution under the Apache License can be taken and included with no problems in a project under the MPL license. well it was never 100% clarified from my pov or Iam to lazy to understand it. But my understanding is that LO or the major parts of their source code is under ALv2 and they can't withdraw the ALv2 license even if it looks so. This is a technicality. An important one, but still a technicality. What matters here, and what nobody can reasonably challenge, is that contributions (code, translations) made to OpenOffice can be reused and included in other projects, and specifically in LibreOffice. Relicensing is on another level of discussion and it only concerns the project that is reusing the contributions, so it is confusing to mix the two issues. Regards, Andrea. --**--**- To unsubscribe, e-mail: marketing-unsubscribe@**openoffice.apache.orgmarketing-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: marketing-help@openoffice.**apache.orgmarketing-h...@openoffice.apache.org
