Re: [Marxism] query re A. Roy

[Shane Mage]

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On Mar 27, 2014, at 4:01 PM, Andrew Pollack wrote:


And this one, which says it all so succinctly:
http://kafila.org/2010/03/22/response-to-arundhati-roy-jairus-banaji/


 "...the vision of the Communist Manifesto is reversed. There Marx  
brings the Communists in not to prevent the expansion of capitalism  
but to fight it from the standpoint of a more advanced mode of  
production..."


So the expansion of capitalism in 2014 has no significant differences  
from the expansion of capitalism in 1847? And today we should "fight  
capitalism" but not its expansion? So unthinkingly you write off the  
whole environmental defense movement as luddite, and the struggle  
against Naruda in which she plays such an important role (and all  
similar struggles) as nothing but a primitive-communist delusion!


Shane Mage
"Thunderbolt steers all things." Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64






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Re: [Marxism] query re A. Roy

[Shane Mage]

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On Mar 27, 2014, at 3:45 PM, Andrew Pollack wrote:


Fortunately I found soon after the piece below, on global south  
Maoism more

generally, which is a welcome emotional and political antidote to Roy


A "piece" whose factual value is excellently portrayed in this  
statement:


"MAOISTS ARE back in the news. In Nepal, after many years of guerrilla  
war, they are now the ruling party of government. They won an  
overwhelming majority of the popular vote in 2008"


This sectarian "authority" misrepresents an election in which the CPN- 
M gained a plurality of votes but were so far short of an  
"overwhelming majority" that they were totally  unable to secure  
passage of any important legislation, let alone carry out their  
promise of enacting a democratic constitution.  As a result, today  
Nepal still  has no  constitution (it is a de facto, not de jure,  
republic) and the Maoists no longer are even in the government, having  
given up their powerless "ruling" position at the head of the  
government!


Shane Mage

This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it
always was and is and shall be: an everlasting fire,
kindling in measures and going out in measures.

Herakleitos of Ephesos






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Re: [Marxism] query re A. Roy

[Andrew Pollack]

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And this one, which says it all so succinctly:
http://kafila.org/2010/03/22/response-to-arundhati-roy-jairus-banaji/


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Andrew Pollack wrote:

> Three years after the fact I got around to reading Arundhati Roy's
> "Walking with the comrades." I had heard that it was a debunking of some
> myths about the Naxalites, and figured "ok, whatever, that's comradely of
> her, a nice balance to media lies."
>
> But one thing and another made me decide to read it, and I was extremely
> disappointed by its liberal approach. She's got many moving examples of
> heroism by the villagers, and even their rank-and-file Maoist friends, and
> many horrifying examples of state and corporate violence. Yet when
> admitting past, present and potentially future crimes by the Party
> leadership, her response is consistently "ooh, that's bad and terrible, but
> the State is worse!" Not a clue of possible alternative strategies.
>
> Fortunately I found soon after the piece below, on global south Maoism
> more generally, which is a welcome emotional and political antidote to Roy
> and other radical chic fellow-travelers:
>
> http://isreview.org/issue/87/maoism-global-south
>
> PS: I have to admit I've read at most one other article by Roy, I don't
> remember which, but it was years ago and liberal enough that I swore off
> her. But I suppose the renewed attention to her requires me to read more.
> Am I missing something? Does she have some unique contribution I'm not
> aware of?
>
> Andy
>

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[Marxism] query re A. Roy

[Andrew Pollack]

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Three years after the fact I got around to reading Arundhati Roy's "Walking
with the comrades." I had heard that it was a debunking of some myths about
the Naxalites, and figured "ok, whatever, that's comradely of her, a nice
balance to media lies."

But one thing and another made me decide to read it, and I was extremely
disappointed by its liberal approach. She's got many moving examples of
heroism by the villagers, and even their rank-and-file Maoist friends, and
many horrifying examples of state and corporate violence. Yet when
admitting past, present and potentially future crimes by the Party
leadership, her response is consistently "ooh, that's bad and terrible, but
the State is worse!" Not a clue of possible alternative strategies.

Fortunately I found soon after the piece below, on global south Maoism more
generally, which is a welcome emotional and political antidote to Roy and
other radical chic fellow-travelers:

http://isreview.org/issue/87/maoism-global-south

PS: I have to admit I've read at most one other article by Roy, I don't
remember which, but it was years ago and liberal enough that I swore off
her. But I suppose the renewed attention to her requires me to read more.
Am I missing something? Does she have some unique contribution I'm not
aware of?

Andy

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Re: [Marxism] query re Trotsky and Dewey

[Dayne Goodwin]

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Of course, this is Cannon criticizing Dewey (according to Joseph Hansen).

Andy, your query got me off another query, did Trotsky ever respond to
Dewey's "Means and Ends" (The New International August 1938) critique of
Trotsky's "Their Morals and Ours" (The New International June 1938)?


On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 1:08 PM, Andrew Pollack wrote:

>
> Jay found it! (thanks to others with helpful suggestions offline)
> https://www.marxists.org/archive/hansen/1944/02/jail.htm
> . . .
>


>
> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 10:08 AM, Andrew Pollack  >wrote:
> . . .
> > Anyway, if I remember right, somewhere Trotsky criticized Dewey because
> > the latter, after exonerating Trotsky of Stalinist charges, used the same
> > article or platform to criticize Trotsky himself, and apparently Trotsky
> > thought that was inappropriate procedurally.
> >
> > Does anyone recall where this was said?
>

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[Marxism] query re Trotsky and Dewey

[Andrew Pollack]

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This is embarrassing because a) I should know where it is, and b) even if
not I should be able to find it using the MIA search function.

Anyway, if I remember right, somewhere Trotsky criticized Dewey because the
latter, after exonerating Trotsky of Stalinist charges, used the same
article or platform to criticize Trotsky himself, and apparently Trotsky
thought that was inappropriate procedurally.

Does anyone recall where this was said?

Andy

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[Marxism] query

[Andrew Pollack]

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I stumbled on a good column by Marko Attila Hoare, who seems to have
written some good things on Syria and the Balkans.

His Wiki says he signed the Euston statement, and maybe he's been dissected
here before. But I'm curious if anyone knows more about him: the fact that
he helped with the Workers' Aid convoy to Tuzla in 1995 is intriguing, what
with Tuzla being the initiator of the current revolt in Bosnia.

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[Marxism] query on US military hiring practices

[Les Schaffer]

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Does anyone know where i can find information on US military recruitment
by income bracket? similar to stuff like this (1., below) but more up to
date?

Also, 2. below is from the suspect Heritage Foundation. are there
relatively less-biased sources for this info?

thanks

Les


1. Youths in Rural U.S. Are Drawn To Military

By Ann Scott Tyson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, November 4, 2005
As sustained combat in Iraq makes it harder than ever to fill the ranks
of the all-volunteer force, newly released Pentagon demographic data
show that the military is leaning heavily for recruits on economically
depressed, rural areas where youths' need for jobs may outweigh the
risks of going to war.

More than 44 percent of U.S. military recruits come from rural areas,
Pentagon figures show. In contrast, 14 percent come from major cities.
Youths living in the most sparsely populated Zip codes are 22 percent
more likely to join the Army, with an opposite trend in cities.
Regionally, most enlistees come from the South (40 percent) and West (24
percent).

Many of today's recruits are financially strapped, with nearly half
coming from lower-middle-class to poor households, according to new
Pentagon data based on Zip codes and census estimates of mean household
income. Nearly two-thirds of Army recruits in 2004 came from counties in
which median household income is below the U.S. median.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/03/AR2005110302528.html



2. Who Serves in the U.S. Military? The Demographics of Enlisted Troops
and Officers

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2008/08/who-serves-in-the-us-military-the-demographics-of-enlisted-troops-and-officers

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Re: [Marxism] Query (Israel and the formation of Hamas)

[Marv Gandall]

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On 2014-03-03, at 6:29 PM, Ken Hiebert wrote:

> I read the piece by Ramzy Baroud.  I don't think there is much disagreement.  
> In his account as well, Israel did favour the Muslim Brotherhood at some 
> point.
>   
> "Israel's curious attitude could be explained as part of its policy of reward 
> and punishment. Since the Islamists had - at that particular time - renounced 
> armed struggle, and were providing services, which spared the Israeli budget 
> many millions, there seemed little need to discontinue what at the time may 
> have seemed innocuous activities. But more importantly, Israel was wary of 
> the augmentation of PLO institutions abroad and growing influence on 
> Palestinian societies in the occupied territories. 
> 
> More, the growing bitterness between other liberation movements in Gaza and 
> the Islamic movement, led by Sheikh Ahmad Yassin gave Israel hope that 
> growing hostilities would result in the pacifying and paralysis of all 
> respective groups, sparing Israel the rigorous task of reining them in. One 
> could argue that any Israeli interference to halt the growth and evolvement 
> of the Islamic movement in Gaza, in that period, would have merely sped up 
> its radicalization, as opposed to annihilating it altogether."

Further support for the view that while Israel did not create political Islam, 
neither did it discourage its growth, expecting it would weaken the Palestinian 
national movement:

How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas
By ANDREW HIGGINS
Wall Street Journal
Jan. 24, 2009 

Moshav Tekuma, Israel

Surveying the wreckage of a neighbor's bungalow hit by a Palestinian rocket, 
retired Israeli official Avner Cohen traces the missile's trajectory back to an 
"enormous, stupid mistake" made 30 years ago.

"Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel's creation," says Mr. Cohen, a 
Tunisian-born Jew who worked in Gaza for more than two decades. Responsible for 
religious affairs in the region until 1994, Mr. Cohen watched the Islamist 
movement take shape, muscle aside secular Palestinian rivals and then morph 
into what is today Hamas, a militant group that is sworn to Israel's 
destruction.

Instead of trying to curb Gaza's Islamists from the outset, says Mr. Cohen, 
Israel for years tolerated and, in some cases, encouraged them as a 
counterweight to the secular nationalists of the Palestine Liberation 
Organization and its dominant faction, Yasser Arafat's Fatah. Israel cooperated 
with a crippled, half-blind cleric named Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, even as he was 
laying the foundations for what would become Hamas. Sheikh Yassin continues to 
inspire militants today; during the recent war in Gaza, Hamas fighters 
confronted Israeli troops with "Yassins," primitive rocket-propelled grenades 
named in honor of the cleric.

Last Saturday, after 22 days of war, Israel announced a halt to the offensive. 
The assault was aimed at stopping Hamas rockets from falling on Israel. Prime 
Minister Ehud Olmert hailed a "determined and successful military operation." 
More than 1,200 Palestinians had died. Thirteen Israelis were also killed.

Hamas responded the next day by lobbing five rockets towards the Israeli town 
of Sderot, a few miles down the road from Moshav Tekuma, the farming village 
where Mr. Cohen lives. Hamas then announced its own cease-fire.

Since then, Hamas leaders have emerged from hiding and reasserted their control 
over Gaza. Egyptian-mediated talks aimed at a more durable truce are expected 
to start this weekend. President Barack Obama said this week that lasting calm 
"requires more than a long cease-fire" and depends on Israel and a future 
Palestinian state "living side by side in peace and security."

A look at Israel's decades-long dealings with Palestinian radicals -- including 
some little-known attempts to cooperate with the Islamists -- reveals a catalog 
of unintended and often perilous consequences. Time and again, Israel's efforts 
to find a pliant Palestinian partner that is both credible with Palestinians 
and willing to eschew violence, have backfired. Would-be partners have turned 
into foes or lost the support of their people.

Israel's experience echoes that of the U.S., which, during the Cold War, looked 
to Islamists as a useful ally against communism. Anti-Soviet forces backed by 
America after Moscow's 1979 invasion of Afghanistan later mutated into al Qaeda.

At stake is the future of what used to be the British Mandate of Palestine, the 
biblical lands now comprising Israel and the Palestinian territories of the 
West Bank and Gaza. Since 1948, when the state of Israel was established, 
Israelis and Palestinians have each asserted claims over the same territory.

The Palestinian cause was

Re: [Marxism] Query

[Ken Hiebert]

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Louis Proyect said:

Here's Ramzy Baroud on this stuff:

http://palestinechronicle.com/old/view_article_details.php?id=14888


Ken Hiebert replies:
I read the piece by Ramzy Baroud.  I don't think there is much disagreement.  
In his account as well, Israel did favour the Muslim Brotherhood at some point.

"Israel's curious attitude could be explained as part of its policy of reward 
and punishment. Since the Islamists had - at that particular time - renounced 
armed struggle, and were providing services, which spared the Israeli budget 
many millions, there seemed little need to discontinue what at the time may 
have seemed innocuous activities. But more importantly, Israel was wary of the 
augmentation of PLO institutions abroad and growing influence on Palestinian 
societies in the occupied territories. 

More, the growing bitterness between other liberation movements in Gaza and the 
Islamic movement, led by Sheikh Ahmad Yassin gave Israel hope that growing 
hostilities would result in the pacifying and paralysis of all respective 
groups, sparing Israel the rigorous task of reining them in. One could argue 
that any Israeli interference to halt the growth and evolvement of the Islamic 
movement in Gaza, in that period, would have merely sped up its radicalization, 
as opposed to annihilating it altogether."

And I agree with him when he says, "This notion - that Hamas is the brainchild 
of Israel - is simply incorrect." 

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Re: [Marxism] Query

[Louis Proyect]

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On 3/3/14 4:22 PM, Paul Flewers wrote:


I can see how this could get 'improved' into the conspiratorial idea that
Hamas was an actual creation of the Israeli state, rather than its rise
being facilitated by the Israeli state.


This is what Dreyfuss wrote in "Devil's Game":

"In the early 1980s Israel supported the Islamists on several fronts. It 
was, of course, supporting the Gaza and West Bank Islamists that, in 
1987, would found Hamas."


Here's Ramzy Baroud on this stuff:

http://palestinechronicle.com/old/view_article_details.php?id=14888

While various Western governments are struggling to define a possible 
relationship with the Palestinian movement Hamas, some progressive and 
leftist circles are also uneasy regarding their own perception of the 
Islamic movement.


Some have even made the claim that Hamas is, more or less, an Israeli 
concoction. In fact, the accusation that Hamas was created by Israeli 
intelligence has become so commonplace that it often requires no serious 
substantiation. While the claim, as it stands, is erroneous, there is 
certainly a reason and history behind it. But was Hamas, in fact the 
work of the Israeli Mossad?


The mere suggestion is consequential, for not only does it discredit one 
single faction, but implies that Palestinians are deceived into thinking 
that they actually have some control over their collective destiny. This 
notion - that Hamas is the brainchild of Israel - is simply incorrect.


It could very well be complicated for one to grasp how such a movement 
could take a foothold and flourish with such popular support if one has 
no familiarity with the social, economic and religious history of the 
Gaza Strip, the birthplace of Hamas.


It is true that for years, Palestinians have suffered poverty, hunger 
and humiliation under the Israeli occupation. And while the Palestinian 
Liberation Organization (PLO) has played a major role in representing 
and speaking on behalf of the Palestinian people abroad, its role in the 
occupied territories has been, at best, lacking.


There are reasons for that, not least because the PLO had its own 
complex regional and international priorities, and that it lacked the 
grassroots leverage enjoyed by the Islamic movement. It was only a 
natural response for the religious institution to fill the gap of an 
absent government, a role that it took seriously. But let's look a bit 
more carefully into the evolution and growth of Hamas in Gaza in 
particular, a presence that was making a strong impact as early as 1967.


In the early years of the occupation, the Islamic movement in Gaza 
strategized an effort that would require a strong and well-established 
foundation. Initially, the movement refuted the notion of armed-struggle 
and was often criticized and ridiculed by secular liberation movements 
for masking their weak nature as "pacifism".


The truth is, the Islamic movement in Gaza didn't disregard armed 
struggle in and of itself; it felt that this nation of mostly refugees 
was in a vulnerable state and would need years of preparation before 
they could actually become a force to be reckoned with. For this reason, 
they invested decades to strengthening social bonds in Gazan society, by 
building mosques, childcare centers, hospitals, schools and so forth.


The years between 1967 to 1975 were designated by the Islamic movement 
as the phase of "mosque building". The mosque was the central 
institution that galvanized Islamic societies in Gaza. It was not simply 
a place of worship but also a hub for education, social and cultural 
interaction, and later political organization.


In the period between 1967 to 1987, the number of mosques in Gaza 
tripled, rising from 200 to 600 mosques. The years between 1975 well 
into the 1980s were dubbed the phase of "social institution building", 
which included the formation of Islamic clubs, charitable organizations, 
student societies, etc, which all served as meeting points for Muslim youth.


In 1973, the Islamic Center was established in Gaza, the actual body 
that served as the heart of all the movement's activities. It was widely 
understood that the center was an extension of the Egypt-influenced 
Muslim Brotherhood of the past. Israel purposely did little to halt the 
establishment of the organization, as it also did little to assist in 
its growth.


Israel's curious attitude could be explained as part of its policy of 
reward and punishment. Since the Islamists had - at that particular time 
- renounced armed struggle, and were providing services, which spared 
the Israeli budget many millions, there seemed little need to 
discontinue what at the time may have seemed innocuous activities. But 
more importantly, Israel was wary of the augmentation o

Re: [Marxism] Query

[Ken Hiebert]

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Louis Proyect said:
About 15 years ago there were reports about the Mossad creating Hamas 
circulating. One of the primary sources of this was a journalist who was 
formerly a member of Larouche's organization. His articles appeared on places 
like Dissident Voice, ZNet, etc. Does this ring a bell? 

Ken Hiebert replies:
I cannot say that Israel created Hamas, but I can say that it is widely 
believed that Israel favoured favoured its predecessor, the Muslim Brotherhood, 
as a counterweight to the PLO.  I think Chomsky has cited some examples of 
this.  One in particular, at the same time that the Muslim Brotherhood was 
establishing itself, there was a Christian preaching non-violent resistance.  
He was deported while the MB was left untouched. 
Of course this is not the same as saying that Israel launched Hamas.

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[Marxism] Query

[Louis Proyect]

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About 15 years ago there were reports about the Mossad creating Hamas 
circulating. One of the primary sources of this was a journalist who was 
formerly a member of Larouche's organization. His articles appeared on 
places like Dissident Voice, ZNet, etc. Does this ring a bell?



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Re: [Marxism] Query I was asked to forward to Marxmail

[Ken Hiebert]

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John Riddell, on his website, has been discussing the German Revolution.
ken h

http://johnriddell.wordpress.com/2013/07/25/did-the-russian-nep-trigger-the-german-march-action-an-exchange/

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[Marxism] Query I was asked to forward to Marxmail

[shaun may]

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Preobrazhensky's text [From NEP to Socialism] can be found at this link (at a 
very reasonable £4.95 +pp)
 
Full list contains some very interesting reads. Index Books is a London based 
publisher. 
 
 
http://www.indexbooks.co.uk/complete.html
 
 
Shaun May
  

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Re: [Marxism] Query I was asked to forward to Marxmail

[RKOB]

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3) and this is obviously less directly tied to issues of historical 
fact. Assuming 1917 had happened, and grown outwards from russia early 
on, what would the world be like today? i.e. i'm asking all you crusty 
old marxists to tap into a sphere of utopian imagination that maybe 
you forgot you had; it's an important part of marxism.




One example for this would be Evgenji Preobrazhensy: /From New Economic 
Policy to Socialism. A Glance into the Future of Russia and Europe/. It 
was originally published in 1922 and the form is a series of lectures 
which a fictional professor Minayev gives in the year 1970 looking back 
to the political developments since 1917.


Brian Pearce translated it and Healy's New Park Publication published it 
in 1973.


Michael

--
Revolutionär-Kommunistischen Organisation zur Befreiung (RKOB)
www.rkob.net
ak...@rkob.net
0650/4068314


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Re: [Marxism] Query I was asked to forward to Marxmail

[David P Á]

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On 03/11/2013 1:23, Louis Proyect wrote:

3) and this is obviously less directly tied to issues of historical
fact. Assuming 1917 had happened, and grown outwards from russia early
on, what would the world be like today? i.e. i'm asking all you crusty
old marxists to tap into a sphere of utopian imagination that maybe you
forgot you had; it's an important part of marxism.


A fun read on this line is Reality Rosa. It's a sort of story of what 
the world would have been like if RL had survived. 
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?429756-Reality-Rosa-A-world-where-Communism-works-%28GURPS-Alt-Hist%29


--David.


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Re: [Marxism] Query I was asked to forward to Marxmail

[Mark Lause]

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My starting point would be the mutinies within the armies.  For a short
introduction to the issues, see the episode of the 1914-1918 documentary on
YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOiadmX1D5Y&list=PLEae1RaRheqjqml_5j6agMuuJ7MYY3Iu4

These detonated the revolts at home.  To a surprising extent, the
bibliographies at the end of the Wiki articles are remarkably good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Army_Mutinies

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Étaples_Mutiny
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Toplis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiel_mutiny
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Artelt

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[Marxism] Query I was asked to forward to Marxmail

[Louis Proyect]

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I've been doing some research on the cluster of events at the tail end 
of World War One, the russian revolution and the almost german 
revolution. World revolution was inches away.


What I'd like to ask the list is
1) recommendations for books and articles on this period, the flare-up 
nearly everywhere. Especially how russian and german upsurges fed 
militancy in France and England and Italy. I know Broue is important on 
this subject. But how do I get to really grasp what went on in all of 
europe at this point? When did the revolutionary upsurge fade? 1923 
germany? 1927 shanghai?


2) as part of a useful thought exercise, I think it's important to build 
counterfactuals. counterfactuals are much more useful in explaining 
things to people who don't wanna be smacked upside the head with 
historiography or doctorate-speak. What could have happened to make the 
German Revolution link up with the Russian? a successful conquest of 
poland? liebknecht and luxemburg living? More importantly, what would 
have been the first and second and n-th waves of events that would have 
followed from a successful link up? how would this have lead to a united 
socialist states of europe? what would it be up against in the rest of 
the world?


3) and this is obviously less directly tied to issues of historical 
fact. Assuming 1917 had happened, and grown outwards from russia early 
on, what would the world be like today? i.e. i'm asking all you crusty 
old marxists to tap into a sphere of utopian imagination that maybe you 
forgot you had; it's an important part of marxism.




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Re: [Marxism] query

[Louis Proyect]

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On 8/31/13 10:55 PM, Steve Heeren wrote:


Can you recommend any good books or articles on the role Hollywood has
played in spreading american ideology (esp. "land of opportunity",
"individualism", etc) worldwide through the distribution of its movies?




http://www.amazon.com/Operation-Hollywood-Pentagon-Shapes-Censors/dp/1591021820

http://www.amazon.com/Projecting-America-1958-Cultural-Diplomacy/dp/0786461543

xxxhttp://www.amazon.com/Global-Entertainment-Media-Imperialism-Globalization/dp/0415519829


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Re: [Marxism] query

[Shane Mage]

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On Aug 31, 2013, at 10:55 PM, Steve Heeren wrote:


Can you recommend any good books or articles on the role Hollywood  
has played in spreading american ideology (esp. "land of  
opportunity", "individualism", etc) worldwide through the  
distribution of its movies?


Start (it all starts with)  "Hollywood" by Gore Vidal.

Shane Mage

"Thunderbolt steers all things." Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64






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[Marxism] query

[Steve Heeren]

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Can you recommend any good books or articles on the role Hollywood has 
played in spreading american ideology (esp. "land of opportunity", 
"individualism", etc) worldwide through the distribution of its movies?



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[Marxism] Query

[Louis Proyect]

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I don't use Twitter except for my blog posts that show up there 
automatically. I just went on Twitter to find something and discovered 
to my chagrin that some asshole spammer has been tweeting there. Anyhow, 
if anybody has advice on how to block him, please contact me privately.



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Re: [Marxism] Query about a book for a class on urban education

[Karen Saunders]

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How about Pauline Lipman's The New Political Economy of Urban Education:
Neoliberalism, Race, and the Right to the City?
 Although if your students find Freire inaccessible, will they find this,
and anyone writing about the politics of urban education inaccessible?
Karen Saunders

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Re: [Marxism] Query about a book for a class on urban education

[Manuel Barrera]

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Thanks, Barbarait looks very promising. I appreciate it.

> From: bwpurplew...@gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 17:58:54 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Marxism] Query about a book for a class on urban education
> To: mtom...@hotmail.com
> 
> ==
> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> ==
> 
> 
> School Sucks,(Ed Theoharis  and others)
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On Jul 30, 2013, at 4:34 PM, Manuel Barrera  wrote:
> 
> > ==
> > Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> > ==
> > 
> > 
> > Oh, sorry, if you'd prefer to send me a recommendation personally instead 
> > of on list, please send to mtomas3@hotmail.comthanks
> > 
> >> From: mtom...@hotmail.com
> >> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 15:23:52 -0500
> >> Subject: [Marxism] Query about a book for a class on urban education
> >> To: mtom...@hotmail.com
> >> 
> >> ==
> >> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> >> ==
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Hello, I'd be interested in recommendations from the educators on this 
> >> list for a solid text to discuss the politics of urban education. I have 
> >> been using Freire's Pedagogy for some time including the later iterations 
> >> on urban education. My students often find the writing too inaccessible, 
> >> so, I am striving to find a similar perspective, but NOT a postmodern 
> >> diatribe (hence, Giroux and his ilk are not my first choice). I know it's 
> >> a trying request, but I will consider any recommendations 
> >> seriously.sincere regards,Manuel 
> >> 
> >> Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
> >> Set your options at: 
> >> http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/mtomas3%40hotmail.com
> > 
> > 
> > Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
> > Set your options at: 
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> 
> 
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Re: [Marxism] Query about a book for a class on urban education

[Barbara Winslow]

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School Sucks,(Ed Theoharis  and others)

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 30, 2013, at 4:34 PM, Manuel Barrera  wrote:

> ==
> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> ==
> 
> 
> Oh, sorry, if you'd prefer to send me a recommendation personally instead of 
> on list, please send to mtomas3@hotmail.comthanks
> 
>> From: mtom...@hotmail.com
>> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 15:23:52 -0500
>> Subject: [Marxism] Query about a book for a class on urban education
>> To: mtom...@hotmail.com
>> 
>> ==
>> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
>> ==
>> 
>> 
>> Hello, I'd be interested in recommendations from the educators on this list 
>> for a solid text to discuss the politics of urban education. I have been 
>> using Freire's Pedagogy for some time including the later iterations on 
>> urban education. My students often find the writing too inaccessible, so, I 
>> am striving to find a similar perspective, but NOT a postmodern diatribe 
>> (hence, Giroux and his ilk are not my first choice). I know it's a trying 
>> request, but I will consider any recommendations seriously.sincere 
>> regards,Manuel 
>> 
>> Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
>> Set your options at: 
>> http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/mtomas3%40hotmail.com
> 
> 
> Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
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Re: [Marxism] Query about a book for a class on urban education

[Manuel Barrera]

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Oh, sorry, if you'd prefer to send me a recommendation personally instead of on 
list, please send to mtomas3@hotmail.comthanks

> From: mtom...@hotmail.com
> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 15:23:52 -0500
> Subject: [Marxism] Query about a book for a class on urban education
> To: mtom...@hotmail.com
> 
> ==
> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> ==
> 
> 
> Hello, I'd be interested in recommendations from the educators on this list 
> for a solid text to discuss the politics of urban education. I have been 
> using Freire's Pedagogy for some time including the later iterations on urban 
> education. My students often find the writing too inaccessible, so, I am 
> striving to find a similar perspective, but NOT a postmodern diatribe (hence, 
> Giroux and his ilk are not my first choice). I know it's a trying request, 
> but I will consider any recommendations seriously.sincere regards,Manuel  
>  
> 
> Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
> Set your options at: 
> http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/mtomas3%40hotmail.com
  

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[Marxism] Query about a book for a class on urban education

[Manuel Barrera]

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Hello, I'd be interested in recommendations from the educators on this list for 
a solid text to discuss the politics of urban education. I have been using 
Freire's Pedagogy for some time including the later iterations on urban 
education. My students often find the writing too inaccessible, so, I am 
striving to find a similar perspective, but NOT a postmodern diatribe (hence, 
Giroux and his ilk are not my first choice). I know it's a trying request, but 
I will consider any recommendations seriously.sincere regards,Manuel
 

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Re: [Marxism] Query: Who was A. Landy?

[Carl G. Estabrook]

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I wonder if Gore Vidal was familiar with him? His protagonist in some of his 
historical novels was an American who wrote about the Commune (and people are 
always getting the title of his book wrong).


On Jul 28, 2013, at 7:39 PM, Mark Lause  wrote:

> ==
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> ==
> 
> 
> Thanks, Ethan.  That actually explains some of the problems.  Landy's piece
> on General Cluseret and the Paris Commune interprets his continued
> correspondece with old abolitionists like Charles Sumner as proof that
> Cluseret was actually functioning as a kind of American agent cleverly
> working to betray Paris to the Germans  . . . and even "American domination
> of the world."
> 
> The approach entirely ignored how mid-ninettenth century radical
> aspirations towards "the republic" blurred into ideas of "the social
> republic" and socialism of various stripes. I suspect he spoke/wrote too
> soon in discussing his "forthcoming" book on the Commune, and any serious
> readers found it just too batty.
> 
> ML
> 
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Re: [Marxism] Query: Who was A. Landy?

[Mark Lause]

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Thanks, Ethan.  That actually explains some of the problems.  Landy's piece
on General Cluseret and the Paris Commune interprets his continued
correspondece with old abolitionists like Charles Sumner as proof that
Cluseret was actually functioning as a kind of American agent cleverly
working to betray Paris to the Germans  . . . and even "American domination
of the world."

The approach entirely ignored how mid-ninettenth century radical
aspirations towards "the republic" blurred into ideas of "the social
republic" and socialism of various stripes. I suspect he spoke/wrote too
soon in discussing his "forthcoming" book on the Commune, and any serious
readers found it just too batty.

ML

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Re: [Marxism] Query: Who was A. Landy?

[Andrew Pollack]

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when you type his name in the Search field at MIA three results come up.
Seems like there should be more if folks can find the time


On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 6:50 PM, Ethan Young wrote:

> ==
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> ==
>
>
> Avrom Landy was a hardcore CP figure in the 40s (prehaps earlier) who was
> a leader in the party's ethnic community work. He was slammed in the
> post-Browder period for his Marxism and the Democratic Tradition
> (International Publishers, 1948). Jos. Starobin wrote in American Communism
> in Crisis: 1943-1957: "one of the most ambitious attempts to relate Marxism
> to the democratic movement of the nineteenth century and present its
> premises as part of the heritage both of the American democratic mainstream
> and of Western democracy as a whole."
>
> The FBI says: http://www.conservapedia.com/Avram_Landy
> ey
>
> 
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Re: [Marxism] Query: Who was A. Landy?

[Ethan Young]

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Avrom Landy was a hardcore CP figure in the 40s (prehaps earlier) who was a 
leader in the party's ethnic community work. He was slammed in the post-Browder 
period for his Marxism and the Democratic Tradition (International Publishers, 
1948). Jos. Starobin wrote in American Communism in Crisis: 1943-1957: "one of 
the most ambitious attempts to relate Marxism to the democratic movement of the 
nineteenth century and present its premises as part of the heritage both of the 
American democratic mainstream and of Western democracy as a whole." 

The FBI says: http://www.conservapedia.com/Avram_Landy
ey


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[Marxism] Query: Who was A. Landy?

[Mark Lause]

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I just read a bizarre article by this writer in a PAST & PRESENT for 1951,
allegedly from his forthcoming book _The United States and the Paris
Commune_.  I can't find any indication that such a book appeared, but,
judging from the article, it would make for an interesting bit of fiction.

Anybody know anything about who he was and any connections to the movement?

Thanks.

Mark L.

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Re: [Marxism] query re coups, "coups," and insurrections

[Andrew Pollack]

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Venezuela, Portugal, Egypt in '52... they're ALL useful, precisely because
we have to consider all the variants and why they're different before we
can maturely assess similarities.

Am re-skimming Trotsky on Bonapartism where he says just that: i.e. don't
be a nimrod and equate 19th century Bonapartism with 20th, or even the
original Bonaparte with Louis -- think concretely and see variance!

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Re: [Marxism] query re coups, "coups," and insurrections

[Adam Turl]

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There is also Portugal 1974--however that coup was at the beginning of the
revolution... and differs in many ways from the coup in Egypt--which is
much about the actual military ruling class attempting to contain the mass
movement. The coup in Lisbon helped spark one.


On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 8:47 PM, Marv Gandall  wrote:

> ==
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> ==
>
>
>
> On 2013-07-04, at 11:35 AM, Andrew Pollack wrote:
>
> > Now, for analytical purposes, I'm interested in other examples of coups
> > occurring at various stages of revolutionary upsurge, and what subsequent
> > developments occurred.
>
> What springs immediately to mind, of course, is the coup attempt in
> February, 1992 led by Hugo Chavez, and a reprise that November by left
> nationalist army and air force officers loyal to him. They don't meet your
> criterion of coups launched during a revolutionary upsurge - they were
> intended to trigger one - but they did mark the beginning of a process
> which led to Chavez's electoral victory six years later and all that has
> transpired in Venezuela since.
>
>
> > Here's one study along those lines:
> >
> > http://www.harvardilj.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/HLI203.pdf
>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [Marxism] query re coups, "coups," and insurrections

[Marv Gandall]

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On 2013-07-04, at 11:35 AM, Andrew Pollack wrote:

> Now, for analytical purposes, I'm interested in other examples of coups
> occurring at various stages of revolutionary upsurge, and what subsequent
> developments occurred.

What springs immediately to mind, of course, is the coup attempt in February, 
1992 led by Hugo Chavez, and a reprise that November by left nationalist army 
and air force officers loyal to him. They don't meet your criterion of coups 
launched during a revolutionary upsurge - they were intended to trigger one - 
but they did mark the beginning of a process which led to Chavez's electoral 
victory six years later and all that has transpired in Venezuela since. 


> Here's one study along those lines:
> 
> http://www.harvardilj.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/HLI203.pdf





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[Marxism] query re coups, "coups," and insurrections

[Andrew Pollack]

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I'm definitely among those who see SCAF's ousting of Morsi as a decision
taken by one wing of the ruling class as the best available means to try
(emphasize try) to derail the MASS revolutionary movement. And I therefore
take his ouster as a sign of the power of those masses, who will now move
on to consolidate and seek gains around all their demands (this is also the
sentiment  of the overwhelming majority of Egyptian radicals commenting on
Facebook who, by the way, are really hacked off at non-Egyptians who don't
give credit to the tens of millions  in the streets).

Now, for analytical purposes, I'm interested in other examples of coups
occurring at various stages of revolutionary upsurge, and what subsequent
developments occurred.

Here's one study along those lines:

http://www.harvardilj.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/HLI203.pdf

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[Marxism] query re Jewish-American female novelists

[Andrew Pollack]

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Alex Kane has a great article on how the Zionists at the Jewish Press
launched an anti-Semitic attack on Dustin Hoffman over his support for
"Five Broken Cameras":

http://mondoweiss.net/2013/04/for-backing-5-broken-cameras-jewish-press-smears-dustin-hoffman-as-has-been-figleaf-with-semitic-nose.html

This latest attempt by Zionists to define for US Jews exactly what is
"legitimately" Jewish sent me to thinking again about writers like Philip
Roth, Budd Schulberg, and Jerome Weidman.

Here's my question: What female novelists who have dealt with the US Jewish
experience would anyone recommend?

Andy P.

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Re: [Marxism] Query

[Louis Proyect]

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On 2/1/13 8:31 PM, dajj1...@primusonline.com.au wrote:



You may find some interesting stuff in T.R. Fehrenbach, Comanches: The History
of a People, United States, Pimlico, 2005.
regards
doug



Yeah, that was the first thing I read. It looks like the book I have 
second in my queue nails it. The reviewer, btw, wrote a damned good book 
nailing Obama as a rightwing asshole.



London Review of Books

Hunter-Capitalists
Roger Hodge

Empire of the Summer Moon: Quanah Parker and the Rise and Fall of 
the Comanche Tribe by S.C. Gwynne

Constable, 483 pp, £9.99, July 2011, ISBN 978 1 84901 703 9

On 19 May 1836, less than a month after the Texan Republic won 
independence from Mexico in the Battle of San Jacinto, a large group of 
Indians rode up to the gate of Parker’s Fort, near present-day Mexia, 
east of Waco. The Parker clan had travelled from Illinois to the 
extremities of the Texas frontier three years earlier, with 30 oxcarts 
of belongings and a religious zeal that was anything but missionary. In 
1835, six of the Parker families, three of whom had received land grants 
of 4600 acres, had built a heavily fortified cedar stockade that covered 
an acre of land; it contained six log cabins and four blockhouses, and 
was laced with gunports. The Parkers had fought Indians in Illinois, 
Tennessee and Georgia, and they expected to fight them in Texas as well. 
They probably didn’t realise, however, that their grant from the Mexican 
government had placed them deep in Comanchería, the area of the 
South-West controlled by the Comanches, or that the Mexicans intended to 
use the rapidly growing colonies of English-speaking settlers from the 
US (known as Anglos) to create a human shield between the Comanches and 
their traditional raiding grounds further south. It is unlikely the 
Parkers would have passed up the free land in any case. They were devout 
and aggressive Baptists who believed that God had empowered them to make 
the barbarian deserts bloom. ‘The elect are a wrathful people,’ Elder 
Daniel Parker said, ‘because they are the natural enemies of the non-elect.’


When the Indians arrived, ten of the Parker men were working in the 
fields about a mile away. Six men, including James and Silas Parker, 
both Texas Rangers, were still at the fort, along with eight women and 
nine children. The armoured gate was open. The Comanches were apparently 
taking advantage of the disorder created by the Texans’ violent divorce 
from Mexico to carry out raids on settlements that penetrated too far 
into their hunting grounds. Estimates of their number range from one 
hundred to five hundred. Their horses painted for war, the Indians 
approached the fort with a white flag. Benjamin Parker walked out of the 
gate and spoke to the warriors, who asked for a cow; Parker refused, 
though he offered other supplies, and thus abandoned whatever hope he 
and his family had of surviving the encounter.


Comanches were used to accepting tribute from Euro-Americans; 
gift-giving was integral to Comanche political culture, so the frequent 
refusal of Texans ‘to share’ was considered insulting and hostile. While 
Benjamin spoke to the Indians, other members of the Parker family were 
fleeing out of the fort’s back door. Rachel Parker Plummer, who survived 
21 months of Indian captivity (possibly among the Shoshone in 
south-western Wyoming, rather than the Comanches as she believed), 
watched as her uncle Benjamin was surrounded, clubbed, impaled with 
lances, shot with arrows, then scalped. Rachel took her little boy James 
and began to run, but, as she wrote after her release, ‘a large sulky 
looking Indian picked up a hoe and knocked me down.’ Silas Parker went 
for his bag of shot and was soon killed, as were the other men who 
remained in the fort trying to protect the women and children. Some of 
those who fled were caught, mutilated and killed. Granny Parker was 
raped and stabbed but survived. Taken captive along with Rachel and her 
son James were Elizabeth Kellog and Silas Parker’s children John and 
Cynthia Ann. John grew up to be a Comanche warrior, perhaps ending his 
life as a rancher in Mexico; Elizabeth was ransomed; Cynthia Ann became 
the wife of the war leader Peta Nocona and the mother of Quanah Parker, 
whom S.C. Gwynne, taking his place in a long line of writers, calls the 
‘last chief’ of the Comanches. It might be more accurate to call him the 
first chief, but that would diminish the mythological attraction.


Quanah’s prominence in recent popular accounts owes as much to his being 
the half-breed child of a captive white woman as to his prowess as a war 
leader. The romance of the defiant noble savage was less attractive 
while the Indian wars still raged. For most of the last 175 y

Re: [Marxism] Query

[dajj1950]

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==


You may find some interesting stuff in T.R. Fehrenbach, Comanches: The History
of a People, United States, Pimlico, 2005.
regards
doug
>-- Original Message --
>Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2013 11:11:55 -0500
>From: Louis Proyect 
>Subject: [Marxism] Query
>Reply-To: Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition
>   
>To: douglas jordan 
>
>
>==
>Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
>==
>
>
>I am working on an article about the war against the Comanche Indians in
>
>the pre-Civil War period. As you may know, Pekka Hamalainen's "Comanche

>Empire" argues that the hegemony of the Comanches in the lower plains 
>was based on its immense "capital" in horses. What I am looking for are

>books/articles on the role of the horse in the rise of American 
>capitalism. Contact me at l...@panix.com for leads.
>
>Thanks
>
>
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Re: [Marxism] Query

[Mark Lause]

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This is a bit earlier than my readings in the period, though I've
encountered the same sources in tems of the base of Comanche power as
being horses.

It's a very interesting project--very massive--and there are several
places I'd look for starters.  Census records will provide the basic
statistics on the numbers of horses, mules, etc.  That's all online.

Early cities would provide lots of material on the subject, since one
of their key functions had been the removal of horse dung and dead
horses from the streets by the licensed cartmen.  By the 1840s-1860s,
a horse-powered mass transit system functioned in NYC, which couldn't
have functioned without it.

As to agriculture and transport generally, despite the emphasis on
race horses, horse-breeding made Kentucky what it was in the
antebellum period.  I have nothing on my shelf, but I'm srue there's
literature in the agriculatural and local histories.

I'm probably most familiar with the military use of horses in the
Civil War, which exaggerated the trend--like all other resources.
Just finishing a second volume to close the 1864 Missouri
campaign--going from Jefferson City to Kansas City and south into the
Indian Territory and Texas.  I don't think there wasa hors e left in
the wake of where the two--actaully three--mounted armies came
through.  Thousands were left jaded and broken down--and preyed upon
by wolves.  As an aside, the manipulation of the supply of mounts in
the Indian Territory was one of the things that the US used to break
the power of its Indian allies after the war.

Most of the classic economic histories of the Civil War provide lots
of material on horses, their imporance and their disappearance.  Not
just Missouri, but all across the Midwest.  This loss was so great
that I'm sure it played an important factor in the seriousness and
pace of the government's encouragement of railroad-building
afterwards.  This, at least, reduced the reliance on horses for
long-distance cartage by the overland trails.

As an aside, after the technology began to take horses out of the
long-distance operation, there was an emphasis on strength rather than
endurance.  This led the extension of the Kentucky-based industy into
Missouri to refocus on breeding mules, which remained in wide use for
many purposes long after the introduction of the tractor.

Best,
Mark


On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Louis Proyect  wrote:
> ==
> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> ==
>
>
> I am working on an article about the war against the Comanche Indians in the
> pre-Civil War period. As you may know, Pekka Hamalainen's "Comanche Empire"
> argues that the hegemony of the Comanches in the lower plains was based on
> its immense "capital" in horses. What I am looking for are books/articles on
> the role of the horse in the rise of American capitalism. Contact me at
> l...@panix.com for leads.
>
> Thanks
>
> 
> Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
> Set your options at:
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Re: [Marxism] Query on Nazism

[Ken Hiebert]

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Daniel Goldhagen was mentioned in the NYT article.  Some people may not have 
heard of the critique of Goldhagen published by Ruth Birn and Norman 
Finkelstein.
http://www.amazon.com/Nation-Trial-Goldhagen-Thesis-Historical/dp/0805058729

I recall something that Ernest Mandel said to the effect that over the course 
of Nazi rule workers received a declining share of the GNP.  This is not to 
deny that some workers received benefits based on the plunder taken from Jews.

ken h

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Re: [Marxism] Query on Nazism

[Louis Proyect]

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On 1/7/13 6:30 PM, Thomas Bias wrote:

I was a student at Amherst College from 1967 to 1971, and junior year I had
a European history professor named John Ratté. He made the case that the New
Deal was modeled after fascism. I thought at the time that he was off the
wall, but the more I understand about Hitler's policies toward the working
class, especially corporatism, the more I've come to appreciate what
Professor Ratté had to say. Hitler gave privileges to a section of the
working class, skilled workers of the Christian religion ("Aryans"), such as
their own little houses, a "People's Car" in each driveway, health benefits,
etc., and rather than destroying their unions, he incorporated them into the
government (corporatism).


This was also the analysis of Lynn Turgeon, a post-Keynesian economist:

http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/pkt/1995m02/msg00162.html


Barkley, Apparently you are right about my original message not getting out to
pkt. Walther Fund succeeded Schacht after 1938. In 1940, Funk announced plans
for a "new world order" after a German victory in World War II. The
British propaganda minister came to Keynes with the Funk plan and said that we
must answer this. Keynes liked the Funk plan, presumably because it got away
from gold. I suspect it was bilateral rather than multilateral. At any rate,
the first draft of the British version of the Bretton Woods agreement was the
result. I have been unable to locate any translation of the Funk plan so
perhaps some pkters might help me find it or translate same. The controversal
part of Keynes's introduction from the German edition is: "This is one of the
reasons which justify my calling my theory a General theory.  Since it is based
on less narrow assumptions than the orthodox theory, it is also more easily
adopted to a large area of different circumstances.  Although I have worked it
out having the conditions in the Anglo-Saxon countries in view where a great
deal of laissez-faire still prevails, it yet remains applicable to situations
in which national leadership is more pronounced." These sentences have been
excised by Moggidge since the original correspondence was destroyed duing the
conflict. But Keynes ecognised that the Gemans wee thisty fo his theoy." Lynn
wa





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Re: [Marxism] Query on Nazism

[Ian Pace]

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This review of Aly by moderate leftist and Third Reich expert Richard Evans 
is quite incisive about the problems of Aly's approach - 
http://hnn.us/node/33991


Solidarity,
Ian 




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Re: [Marxism] Query on Nazism

[Thomas Bias]

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I was a student at Amherst College from 1967 to 1971, and junior year I had
a European history professor named John Ratté. He made the case that the New
Deal was modeled after fascism. I thought at the time that he was off the
wall, but the more I understand about Hitler's policies toward the working
class, especially corporatism, the more I've come to appreciate what
Professor Ratté had to say. Hitler gave privileges to a section of the
working class, skilled workers of the Christian religion ("Aryans"), such as
their own little houses, a "People's Car" in each driveway, health benefits,
etc., and rather than destroying their unions, he incorporated them into the
government (corporatism). The U.S. didn't FORMALLY incorporate the unions
into the government, but Roosevelt's and his successors' policies certainly
had a lot in common with corporatism; of course, the promotion of home
ownership in the working class, and the resulting debt slavery, was a major
factor in the smothering of class struggle militancy in the period after the
Second World War. The promotion by Roosevelt himself, not to mention his
successors, of mindless patriotism was also drawn from the methods of
fascism. I don't subscribe to the notion that we are living under fascism or
anything of the kind, but it is clear to me that the U.S. ruling class and
its politicians from Roosevelt on out have borrowed from Hitler's and
Mussolini's playbooks. ~Tom

-Original Message-
From: marxism-bounces+tgbias=ptd@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
[mailto:marxism-bounces+tgbias=ptd@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu] On
Behalf Of Louis Proyect
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 5:40 PM
To: tgb...@ptd.net
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Query on Nazism

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Found it:

NY Times February 18, 2007
Handouts From Hitler
By DAGMAR HERZOG





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Re: [Marxism] Query on Nazism

[Angelus Novus]

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Wildcat in Germany published a critique of Aly (a former New Leftist who has 
become a neo-liberal) unfortunately available only in German, but one of their 
arguments is that Adam Tooze's findings contradict Aly's assertions:

http://www.wildcat-www.de/wildcat/75/w75_aly.htm




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Re: [Marxism] Query on Nazism

[Louis Proyect]

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Found it:

NY Times February 18, 2007
Handouts From Hitler
By DAGMAR HERZOG

HITLER’S BENEFICIARIES
Plunder, Racial War, and the Nazi Welfare State.
By Götz Aly. Translated by Jefferson Chase.
Illustrated. 431 pp. Metropolitan Books/Henry Holt & Company. $32.50.

What was life like for a typical non-Jewish German under Nazism? Answers 
vary. A discredited though still popular view has it that the Third 
Reich was a nightmarish inferno where informants, scoundrels and sadists 
ruled through fear and intimidation. A state where constant terror 
ensured that citizens would cooperate, accommodate and capitulate.


Another position — one given renewed authority in Daniel Jonah 
Goldhagen’s “Hitler’s Willing Executioners” and the subsequent 
scholarship it inspired — is that Germany in the 1930s and early ’40s 
was a land gripped by Jew-hatred. In this view, the German populace 
during the Nazi era required little or no incentive to summon both 
disgust and rage at the Jews in its midst — whether the anti-Semitism is 
understood as rooted in a time-honored German cultural tradition, or 
fueled by Germany’s traumatic defeat in World War I.


Yet another interpretation focuses on the tremendous personality cult 
that surrounded Hitler. German citizens were so entranced by the vision 
of a better National Socialist world to come that they happily submitted 
to the allures of fascism. In one version of this account, typical 
Germans are cast as unwitting victims of an unparalleled propaganda 
campaign (and thus also come to represent a cautionary tale of how media 
manipulators can redirect an innocent society toward warfare and 
genocide). In more sophisticated versions, the German people are 
understood to have been taken in by Hitler’s charisma not least because 
the remilitarization he initiated — not to mention the Wehrmacht’s early 
battlefield successes — was a balm to wounded national pride.


The provocative power of Götz Aly’s “Hitler’s Beneficiaries,” available 
in this fine English translation after having created a fierce debate in 
Germany, is that it seeks to move beyond each of these explanations. 
That it is not wholly successful does not diminish its intellectual 
significance as a fresh model for grasping how the Nazis gained such 
broad support from so many Germans for as long as they did.


In Aly’s view, Nazism secured the compliance of the German people not 
because of Hitler’s charisma or Goebbels’s propaganda, nor because of 
its anti-Semitic policies or the Gestapo’s ruthlessness. A majority of 
Germans were not seduced or scared by the Nazis. On the contrary, their 
loyalty to the regime was bought and paid for — quite literally so.


According to Aly, who teaches at the University of Frankfurt, millions 
of care packages of plundered items were sent back home from the 
occupied territories by Wehrmacht soldiers who were themselves given 
hearty rations and plenty of disposable cash. Clothing and household 
objects that had once belonged to Jews were sold at affordable prices at 
government-organized public auctions, or simply handed out free as 
emergency relief. And the Nazis also introduced a progressive income tax 
that shifted a far greater tax burden onto corporations and the very rich.


“Hitler’s Beneficiaries” argues that nothing more than an unremarkable 
pursuit of self-interest led most Germans to pledge allegiance to the 
Nazi regime. Germans wanted their children to have nice Christmas gifts. 
They wanted to set aside money for retirement. They wanted to send a 
special someone back home a pretty sweater from Holland or perfumed soap 
from France. Citizens were sated with decent wages, generous overtime 
pay and innovative pension plans — that is, through the establishment of 
a complex, if absolutely amoral, welfare state.


Aly, in short, makes a serious and well-researched attempt to put the 
“socialism” back in National Socialism. And in so doing, he offers his 
own explanation for why so many Germans closed their eyes to the 
systematic expropriation of Jewish property and ultimately to the 
deportation of their Jewish fellow citizens, not to mention the Jews in 
the many nations occupied by or allied with the Nazis across the 
European continent.


Aly makes the case that although goods and gold, stocks and bonds, real 
estate and savings accounts stolen from murdered Jews accounted for at 
best 5 percent of the Third Reich’s operational revenues, this 5 percent 
was often the essential piece that stabilized the vulnerable economies 
of the occupied nations. The money allowed the regime to pass the costs 
of war and occupation onto the occupied while keeping the local 
populations and the German soldiers alike quiescent and complacent — and 
ultimately to be

[Marxism] query re "Fear" by Jan Gross

[Andrew Pollack]

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I'm reading "Fear: Anti-Semitism in Poland After Auschwitz" by Jan T.
Gross. He makes a convincing case that the roots of post-WWII pogroms
in Poland are to be found in the efforts of Poles to keep Jewish
property stolen during the war. By no means does he minimize other
social, cultural or psychological factors, but he does what seems to
be a good job in finding their rational (if murderous), material
kernel.

His concluding chapter is on the behavior of the Polish Communist
Party, which aided and abetted these pogroms.

I turned to the book after reading accounts by I.F. Stone and others
of why Jews left Poland for Palestine, which seem to mesh with Gross,
as they all state simply (but without sufficient examination or
context) that Jews were getting slaughtered and no-one -- not even the
new CP-led regime -- was defending them.

Gross is an anti-Communist, if only of the mainstream academic kind,
but his depiction of the Polish CP's behavior is also convincing.
When he paints the actions and statements of the Party -- and their
Soviet masters - as opportunistic pandering to Christian Poles in
order to minimize resentment at their own dictatorial assumption of
power, I can believe it given the rotten practice of CPs by then.

One reason all this matters, and what brought me to the book in the
first place, is seeking an answer to the question of how and why a
Soviet Union which assumed power in Eastern Europe relatively easily
couldn't have used its armed might to smash the postwar pogroms and
thus have prevented the mass exodus, an exodus which meant a huge
influx into the new colonial state being set up by the Zionists. Gross
recounts how in fact the Polish CP encouraged emigration.

Comments? Alternative accounts?


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Re: [Marxism] query: Jews and Palestinians

[Andrew Pollack]

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see the sections about Mizrahi Jews in Max Ajl's great new piece (and
don't miss the opening and closing paragraphs):
http://www.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/8761/whos-afraid-of-the-qassams-
By coincidence a veteran of Israel's Black Panther movement spoke
recently in New York from a clearly anti-Zionist perspective. Any
decent book on Mizrahi Jews covers that movement.
Can provide references to readings on the Mizrahi if desired. Their
situation and potential, however delayed, bamboozled and repressed, is
much more interesting and important than "dialogue" "peace" or
"binational" frauds.

On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 1:21 PM, rrpompeu  wrote:
> In São Paulo last week-end, there was an open air public meeting in Praça da 
> Paz (Peace Square) with hundreds of Jews and Palestinians that live in the 
> city, calling together for peace in the Middle East. A Jew read a poem by a 
> Palestinian poet and a Palestinian read a poem by an Israeli poet, both 
> translated to Portuguese. Both sides sent kites to the sky, each kite having 
> the mixed colours of the Israeli and Palestinian flags. The Brazilian media 
> said that Brazil is the only country in the world where such a public act has 
> happened, and indeed, even may happen.
> I would like co-listers to confirm or deny this, telling about instances in 
> other countries of friendship and unity of political action between Jews and 
> Palestinians.
> Renato


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Re: [Marxism] query: Jews and Palestinians

[rrpompeu]

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Em 03/12/2012 20:40, Steve Heeren < tzs...@shaw.ca > escreveu:


Palestinians and Jews United is an activist group in Montreal. Good 
website at:

pajumontreal.org


OK, thank you
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[Marxism] query: Jews and Palestinians

[Steve Heeren]

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Palestinians and Jews United is an activist group in Montreal. Good 
website at:


pajumontreal.org



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[Marxism] Query on spam problem

[Louis Proyect]

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The other day I tossed a porn spammer off Marxmail just a day or so 
before Michael Perelman took a similar action on PEN-L. Since then at 
least two PEN-L'ers (Doug and me) have been receiving spam along the 
same lines. Is anybody on Marxmail but *not* PEN-L getting this spam? If 
so, contact me privately at l...@panix.com.



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Re: [Marxism] query

[michael perelman]

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On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Gary MacLennan
 wrote:
> > Are comrades aware of anything written on the influence of Nietzsche on
> Schumpeter's thinking?  It seems to me that the latter's idea of the
> 'entrepreneur' has a whiff of the ubermensch about it.
> Grateful in advance


Here are my notes:

von Tunzelmann, G.N. 1995. Technology and Industrial Progress: The
Foundations of Economic Growth (Aldershot, UK: Edward Elgar).
78: Schumpeter's early idea of the heroic entrepreneur seems to have
been influenced by Nietzsche's superman.  Santarelli, E. and E.
Pesciarelli. 1990. "The Emergence of a Vision: The Development of
Schumpeter's Theory of Entrepreneurship." History of Political
Economy, 22, pp. 677-96.
Reinert, Hugo and Erik S. Reinert. 2006. "Nietzsche, Sombart,
Schumpeter, Creative Destruction." In Jurgen G. Backhaus and Wolfgang
J. M. Drechsler. 2006. Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900): Economy and
Society (New York: Springer Science): pp. 55-85.
58: The idea of regeneration goes back to the Egyptian Phoenix, but
regeneration is less than creative destruction.
59: Johann Gottfried Herder wrote a book, Despotismus des Orients,
which criticized Oriental despotism, although he was sympathetic to
Indian philosophy.  This interesting Indian philosophy filter down to
Schopenhauer and then from Schopenhauer to Nietzsche.
65: Nietzsche's Ubermensch is both the creator and a destroyer: "And
whoever must be a creator in good and evil, verily, he must first be
an annihilator and break values.  Thus, the highest evil belongs to
the highest goodness: but this is creative."
werner sombart coined the term "creative destruction."
72: Sombart, Werner. War and Capitalism: "again, however, from
destruction.  A new spirit of creation arises; the scarcity of wood
and the needs of everyday life . forced the discovery or invention of
substitutes for would, force the use of coal for heating, forced the
invention of Coke for the production of iron.  That these events,
however, made possible the enormous development of capitalism in the
19th century, is beyond doubt for any well-informed person.  Thus,
even here, in this decisive point, the invisible threads of commercial
and military interests appear closely intertwined."
72: After World War II, "The German tradition in economics ... came to
be represented solely by Marx and Schumpeter, a feature which made
these two economists seem much more unique than they in effect are
when seen in their own historical concept.  As we have already
mentioned, the Schumpeter assisted in this process, also by
systematically neglecting the philosophical foundations of German
economics in his History of Economic Analysis."
##
Santarelli, E. and E. Pesciarelli. 1990. "The Emergence of a Vision:
The Development of Schumpeter's Theory of Entrepreneurship." History
of Political Economy, 22, pp. 677-96.
689: "it is possible to argue that the overall `vision' of
Schumpeter's two early works has elements in common with the
philosophy of Friedrich Nietzsche."  Both distinguished between the
leader and the herd.
691: "the separateness of the static and dynamic worlds on which
Schumpeter dwells at such length in [Schumpeter, 1908] springs from
the separateness of the two types of human being that the two worlds
underlie."
##



-- 
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA
95929

530 898 5321
fax 530 898 5901
http://michaelperelman.wordpress.com


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Re: [Marxism] Query on bourgeois economists beginning to convert to Marxian analysis

[Gary MacLennan]

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Interesting.  Here in Queensland the new government which is radically
right wing has begun by destroying thousands (possibly over 20k) jobs in
the Public Service. In terms of the smallish state economy this move could
have a disastrous multiplier effect.  But the ideologues are having their
way and sections of the business "community" have come to feed after
enduring a 20 year long diet under a conservative Labor government.

Unemployment is officially 5% in Queensland though there are pockets where
it is over twice that.

Still outsourcing and down sizing is now the order of the day. Queensland
is reinventing itself as a neo-liberal state and the shock and trauma is
palpable throughout the public sector.

This purge will have an especially tough impact on female workers who had
taken up many positions in the Public Service.

The unions are making noises about intending to fight and fight they must
if they are not to be destroyed. the local Murdoch press is of course
cheering the government on.
Ugly times indeed.

comradely

Gary

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[Marxism] Query

[Louis Proyect]

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Are there any subscribers to Marxmail in Syria or who have 
contacts with Syrians on the Internet? If so, contact me privately 
at l...@panix.com



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Re: [Marxism] Query on bourgeois economists beginning to convert to Marxian analysis

[michael perelman]

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I am astounded by how little economists have learned from the crisis.
(Are we allowed to use that word?).  During the Great Depression there
was more openness.

I once served on a Department of Agriculture committee.  A friend's
father was an undersecretary at the time & he kept challenging his
dad, who set up a task force to prove me wrong.

The younger people on the task force dismissed my ideas out of hand.
The older ones who had been active during the Depression (This was in
the 70s) kept saying, I think Perelman is on to something.
-- 
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA
95929

530 898 5321
fax 530 898 5901
http://michaelperelman.wordpress.com


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Re: [Marxism] Query on bourgeois economists beginning to convert to Marxian analysis

[Ismail Lagardien]

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Jeffrey Sachs has said that Marx was right, that capitalism was bloody. I used 
the reference in my doctoral dissertation.


Ismail Lagardien

Nihil humani a me alienum puto




 



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[Marxism] Query on bourgeois economists beginning to convert to Marxian analysis

[Patrick Bond]

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This nice example (Roubini) aside, are there other bourgeois 
intellectuals - economists or other scholars - who have been giving Marx 
some respect? We have a silly problem with head-in-the-sand South 
African journalists - e.g. 
http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=176335 - and it 
would be nice to have some of their own kind give a bit of wake-up medicine.


Cheers,
Patrick

***

http://online.wsj.com/article/68EE8F89-EC24-42F8-9B9D-47B510E473B0.html


Fri Aug 12, 2011 at 01:40 PM PDT


   Roubini: Marx was right. Capitalism may be destroying itself.
   


by goinsouth 






Nouriel Roubini is a mainstream economist who teaches at New York 
University and may be best known as one of the early predictors of the 
'08 crash.


He is no Marxist.

But today, in an interview with the Wall Street Journal, Roubini 
admitted that Marx was right about Capitalism and raised the possibility 
that Capitalism is destroying itself in the way Marx outlined more than 
a century and a half ago.


I've produced a rough transcript (Roubini's accent gives me some 
trouble) of the critical portion of this very interesting interview.  I 
urge you to read each word carefully at least once, if not twice.


   *WSJ*:  So you painted a bleak picture of sub-par economic growth
   going forward, with an increased risk of another recession in the
   near future.  That sounds awful.  What can government and what can
   businesses do to get the economy going again or is it just sit and
   wait and gut it out?

   *Roubini*:  Businesses are not doing anything.  They're not actually
   helping.  All this risk made them more nervous.  There's a value in
   waiting.  They claim they're doing cutbacks because there's excess
   capacity and not adding workers because there's not enough final
   demand, but there's a paradox, a Catch-22.  If you're not hiring
   workers, there's not enough labor income, enough consumer
   confidence, enough consumption, not enough final demand.  In the
   last two or three years, we've actually had a worsening because
   we've had a massive redistribution of income from labor to capital,
   from wages to profits, and the inequality of income has increased
   and the marginal propensity to spend of a household is greater than
   the marginal propensity of a firm because they have a greater
   propensity to save, that is firms compared to households.  So the
   redistribution of income and wealth makes the problem of inadequate
   aggregate demand even worse.

   *Karl Marx had it right.  At some point, Capitalism can destroy
   itself*.  You cannot keep on shifting income from labor to Capital
   without having an excess capacity and a lack of aggregate demand.
 That's what has happened.  We thought that markets worked.
 They're not working.  The individual can be rational.  The firm,
   to survive and thrive, can push labor costs more and more down, but
   labor costs are someone else's income and consumption.  That's why
   it's a self-destructive process.


***

http://business.financialpost.com/2011/08/12/roubini-says-more-than-50-chance-of-global-recession/

Marx was right; capitalism can destroy itself: Roubini
Pam Heaven  Aug 12, 2011 -- 9:04 AM ET | Last Updated: Aug 12, 2011
1:39 PM ET

Nouriel Roubini cited an even more controversial economist than
himself this week when explaining the state of the world's
turbulent economy.

"Karl Marx got it right, at some point capitalism can destroy
itself," said Mr. Roubini, in an interview with the Wall Street
Journal. "We thought markets worked. They're not working."

Mr. Roubini also said there is more than a 50% chance the world
will plunge into another global recession and the next two to
three months will reveal the economy's direction.

"We are at stall speed right now, and we do not know if we are
going to go up, or down," he said.

Known as Dr. Doom for his prediction of the 2008 financial crisis
among other dire forecasts, the economist said more monetary
policy is needed from central banks to avoid another meltdown.

"There could be QE3, QE4, QE5 in the long-haul," in the United
States, he said.

But monetary policy alone will not be enough, and business and
governments are not helping.

Developed economies such as the United States and countries in the
eurozone are implementing austerity programs to try to fix their
debt-ridden economies, when they should be introducing more
monetary stimulus, he said.

And by slashing labour costs and sitt

Re: [Marxism] Query: Your favorite speeches and talks

[james pitman]

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There's a host of Arundhati Roy speeches on you tube too, which might fit
the bill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHz8cpULupo


On 28 June 2012 00:11, Joseph Catron  wrote:

> ==
> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> ==
>
>
> I need spoken presentations, made recently enough for me to find and
> download videos, for English classes. Ones I've used recently include
> Malcolm X's "By Any Means Necessary" and John F. Kennedy's "We Choose to Go
> to the Moon" - politics aren't as essential as excellent use of the
> language. Any ideas?
>
> --
> "Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen
> lytlað."
> 
> Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
> Set your options at:
> http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/marinercarpentry%40gmail.com
>

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Re: [Marxism] Query: Your favorite speeches and talks

[Gary MacLennan]

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I think one of the noble moments in Australian History was the 1992 address
by the Labor Prime Minister to an Aboriginal Ausidence in Sydney. It's at

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhqAFLud228.

I should add that this speech, which was written at least in part by Don
Watson, an ex-Maoist, was followed by the resurgence of the right wing
represented by the Prime Minstership of John Howard.

In terms of language us and delivery the speech is about as good as you
will get in Oz, and that is not meant as praise.

comradely

Gary

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Re: [Marxism] Query: Your favorite speeches and talks

[james pitman]

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Charlie Chaplin [?]:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK2WJd5bXFg

Comradely,
Jamie.

On 28 June 2012 00:11, Joseph Catron  wrote:

> ==
> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> ==
>
>
> I need spoken presentations, made recently enough for me to find and
> download videos, for English classes. Ones I've used recently include
> Malcolm X's "By Any Means Necessary" and John F. Kennedy's "We Choose to Go
> to the Moon" - politics aren't as essential as excellent use of the
> language. Any ideas?
>
> --
> "Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen
> lytlað."
> 
> Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
> Set your options at:
> http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/marinercarpentry%40gmail.com
>

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[Marxism] Query: Your favorite speeches and talks

[Joseph Catron]

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


I need spoken presentations, made recently enough for me to find and
download videos, for English classes. Ones I've used recently include
Malcolm X's "By Any Means Necessary" and John F. Kennedy's "We Choose to Go
to the Moon" - politics aren't as essential as excellent use of the
language. Any ideas?

-- 
"Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen
lytlað."

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[Marxism] Query: Capitalism vs. the environment

[Jeff Goodwin]

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Could comrades suggest a recent, well researched, and well written book on
how the imperative to accumulate is wrecking (and overheating) the
environment?  Jeff G.

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Re: [Marxism] Query: Best books on pre-2nd International German Social Democr...

[Andrew Pollack]

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"hard to get" my foot! :)
Here it is:
http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/bernstein/works/1893/lassalle/index.htm

Comrades really should get in the habit of googling titles -- and even
blocs of text!

While finishing an article I'm working on, and not being able to remember
which source some quotes were from, I found that googling strings of 5 or 6
words from the quote were almost always sufficient to bring up the original
source! (That's the plus side of google's ever-growing nefarious capacity
to track every bit of data about everything.)

Anyway thanks Shacht for the reference.

On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 9:51 AM,  wrote:

> 
>
> In 1893 Eleanor Marx Aveling translated Edward Bernstein's "Ferdinand
> Lassale As a Social Reformer." It was published in New York and London.
> Probably
>  hard to get however. It does have a good commentary on Lassalle's penchant
> for  what Bernstein calls "Caesarism" and his manipulations with Bismarck.
>

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Re: [Marxism] Query: Best books on pre-2nd International German Social Democracy

[Sebastian Budgen]

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Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 22:36:12 -0400
From: Mark Lause 
To: Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition

Subject: Re: [Marxism] Query: Best books on pre-2nd International
German Social Democracy
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I've been following this discussion with great interest and spending
money like mad on available used titles.

William Pelz wrote some very solid titles on socialism and communism
in the Kaiserreich and the Weimar Republik.

I've been desperately looking for things on the German and British
movement contemporary with the First International and the Commune.

Reichard's Crippled from Birth certainly merits mention, if it hasn't
been already . . .
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=crippled+from+birth&x=82&y=12.
For those book buyers unfamiliar with it, this site will be invaluable
and save you considerable amount of money replacing lost lost titles,
etc.

Solidarit?t!
Mark L.



Mark: there is a lot of very useful material in English on the French socialist 
movement of this period, of all strands (from reformist to revolutionary 
syndicalist). Some examples:

http://www.amazon.com/history-French-working-Class-Volumes/dp/B007BNI39O/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335738334&sr=1-5

http://www.amazon.com/Origins-French-Labor-Movement-Bernard/dp/0520041011/ref=sid_av_dp

http://www.amazon.com/The-First-International-France-1864-1872/dp/0761808876/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335738270&sr=1-3

http://www.amazon.com/Lafargue-Founding-French-Marxism-1842-1882/dp/0674659031/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335737842&sr=1-3

http://www.amazon.com/Lafargue-Flowering-French-Socialism-1882-1911/dp/0674659120/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335737853&sr=1-6
 (these were reviewed by Susan Watkins in the LRB a few years back)

http://www.amazon.com/Alexandre-Millerand-socialist-contemporary-politics/dp/902797991X/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335737868&sr=1-7

http://www.amazon.com/Marxism-Work-Ideology-Socialism-Republic/dp/0521893054/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335737939&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.com/Marxism-And-National-Identity-Nationalism/dp/0791466701/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335737939&sr=1-1
 (reviewed by Ian Birchall in the ISJ some months ago)

http://www.amazon.com/Schism-Solidarity-Social-Movements-Structural/dp/0521791138/ref=sid_av_dp

http://www.amazon.com/Revolutionary-Syndicalism-Cambridge-Cultural-Studies/dp/0521563593/ref=sid_av_dp

http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Revolutionaries-Interpretation-Anarchosyndicalists-Contributions/dp/0313252890/ref=sid_av_dp

If you read French there is a new history of the First International: 
http://www.lafabrique.fr/catalogue.php?idArt=619&idMot=63

On the German-British connection, this may be of interest: 
http://www.amazon.com/Revolutionary-Refugees-Socialism-1840-1860-Routledge/dp/0714651001/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335738413&sr=1-6

Not read this, but it has good reviews: 
http://www.amazon.com/The-Doctors-Revolution-19th-Century-Thinkers/dp/0500018847/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335738539&sr=1-2

On the British movement, there is a substantial literature by people like Noel 
Thompson, Gregory Claeys etc as well as a literature on the SDF:

http://www.amazon.com/Equivocal-Feminists-Democratic-Federation-1884-1911/dp/052189090X/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335738590&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.com/History-Social-democratic-Federation-Martin-Crick/dp/1853310913/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335738599&sr=1-3

http://www.amazon.com/Hyndman-Social-Democratic-Federation-Imperialism-Etherington/dp/B000TSJ4V4/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335738617&sr=1-6

And of course, all the work on William Morris, Belfort Bax 
<http://www.amazon.com/The-Victorian-Encounter-Marx-Belfort/dp/1850436010/ref=sid_av_dp>,
 Edward Carpenter 
<http://www.amazon.com/Edward-Carpenter-Life-Liberty-Love/dp/1844674215/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335738823&sr=1-2>
 etc...






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Re: [Marxism] Query: Best books on pre-2nd International German Social Democracy

[Sébastien Budgen]

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Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 22:36:12 -0400
From: Mark Lause 
To: Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition

Subject: Re: [Marxism] Query: Best books on pre-2nd International
German Social Democracy
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I've been following this discussion with great interest and spending
money like mad on available used titles.

William Pelz wrote some very solid titles on socialism and communism
in the Kaiserreich and the Weimar Republik.

I've been desperately looking for things on the German and British
movement contemporary with the First International and the Commune.

Reichard's Crippled from Birth certainly merits mention, if it hasn't
been already . . .
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=crippled+from+birth&x=82&y=12.
For those book buyers unfamiliar with it, this site will be invaluable
and save you considerable amount of money replacing lost lost titles,
etc.

Solidarit?t!
Mark L.



Mark: there is a lot of very useful material in English on the French socialist 
movement of this period, of all strands (from reformist to revolutionary 
syndicalist). Some examples:

http://www.amazon.com/history-French-working-Class-Volumes/dp/B007BNI39O/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335738334&sr=1-5

http://www.amazon.com/Origins-French-Labor-Movement-Bernard/dp/0520041011/ref=sid_av_dp

http://www.amazon.com/The-First-International-France-1864-1872/dp/0761808876/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335738270&sr=1-3

http://www.amazon.com/Lafargue-Founding-French-Marxism-1842-1882/dp/0674659031/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335737842&sr=1-3

http://www.amazon.com/Lafargue-Flowering-French-Socialism-1882-1911/dp/0674659120/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335737853&sr=1-6
 (these were reviewed by Susan Watkins in the LRB a few years back)

http://www.amazon.com/Alexandre-Millerand-socialist-contemporary-politics/dp/902797991X/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335737868&sr=1-7

http://www.amazon.com/Marxism-Work-Ideology-Socialism-Republic/dp/0521893054/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335737939&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.com/Marxism-And-National-Identity-Nationalism/dp/0791466701/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335737939&sr=1-1
 (reviewed by Ian Birchall in the ISJ some months ago)

http://www.amazon.com/Schism-Solidarity-Social-Movements-Structural/dp/0521791138/ref=sid_av_dp

http://www.amazon.com/Revolutionary-Syndicalism-Cambridge-Cultural-Studies/dp/0521563593/ref=sid_av_dp

http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Revolutionaries-Interpretation-Anarchosyndicalists-Contributions/dp/0313252890/ref=sid_av_dp

If you read French there is a new history of the First International: 
http://www.lafabrique.fr/catalogue.php?idArt=619&idMot=63

On the German-British connection, this may be of interest: 
http://www.amazon.com/Revolutionary-Refugees-Socialism-1840-1860-Routledge/dp/0714651001/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335738413&sr=1-6

Not read this, but it has good reviews: 
http://www.amazon.com/The-Doctors-Revolution-19th-Century-Thinkers/dp/0500018847/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335738539&sr=1-2

On the British movement, there is a substantial literature by people like Noel 
Thompson, Gregory Claeys etc as well as a literature on the SDF:

http://www.amazon.com/Equivocal-Feminists-Democratic-Federation-1884-1911/dp/052189090X/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335738590&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.com/History-Social-democratic-Federation-Martin-Crick/dp/1853310913/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335738599&sr=1-3

http://www.amazon.com/Hyndman-Social-Democratic-Federation-Imperialism-Etherington/dp/B000TSJ4V4/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335738617&sr=1-6

And of course, all the work on William Morris, Belfort Bax 
<http://www.amazon.com/The-Victorian-Encounter-Marx-Belfort/dp/1850436010/ref=sid_av_dp>,
 Edward Carpenter 
<http://www.amazon.com/Edward-Carpenter-Life-Liberty-Love/dp/1844674215/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335738823&sr=1-2>
 etc...






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Re: [Marxism] Query: Best books on pre-2nd International German Social Democracy

[aaron s. amaral]

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Thanks Ethan and Mark!
-aaron

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Re: [Marxism] Query: Best books on pre-2nd International German Social Democracy

[Mark Lause]

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


I've been following this discussion with great interest and spending
money like mad on available used titles.

William Pelz wrote some very solid titles on socialism and communism
in the Kaiserreich and the Weimar Republik.

I've been desperately looking for things on the German and British
movement contemporary with the First International and the Commune.

Reichard's Crippled from Birth certainly merits mention, if it hasn't
been already . . .
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=crippled+from+birth&x=82&y=12.
For those book buyers unfamiliar with it, this site will be invaluable
and save you considerable amount of money replacing lost lost titles,
etc.

Solidarität!
Mark L.


Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
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Re: [Marxism] Query: Best books on pre-2nd International German Social Democracy

[Ethan Young]

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und:

http://books.google.com/books/about/Imperial_Germany.html?id=60KsIAAJ


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Re: [Marxism] Query: Best books on pre-2nd International German Social Democracy

[Sebastian Budgen]

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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 21:51:32 -0400
From: Louis Proyect 
To: Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition

Subject: Re: [Marxism] Query: Best books on pre-2nd International
German Social Democracy
Message-ID: <4f9b4d24.7090...@panix.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 4/27/12 9:38 PM, aaron s. amaral wrote:
> 
> Thanks Tom. I am actually reading this at present. It, along with the Lars
> Lih and a re-reading of the Broue book on the German revolution has led me
> to an interest in the early decades of German social democracy and, more
> specifically, at the various trends both Marxist and other, which were
> formative

I think this is the definitive account of what wrong in Germany in the 
1920s, covering the same ground as Broue but much tougher on the Comintern:

"Stillborn Revolution, the Communist Bid for Power in Germany, 
1921-1923", Werner T. Angress, Princeton, 1963)

Angress led an extraordinary life as well:

http://www.ilasting.com/tomangress.php

SB: There is a more recent book in German on 1921 which we'd like to publish in 
the HM book series, but the problem is raising the funding.

On pre-Second International German SD Aaron, there's not too much in English, 
although there may be refs in 
<http://www.amazon.co.uk/Before-Revisionist-Controversy-Bernstein-1895-1898/dp/0815306741>
 but you should look at the bios of Wilhelm Liebknecht and Eduard Bernstein as 
well as works on Lassalle and August Bebel. There is probably useful 
dissertation material that you can find on Dissertation Express from UMI. I can 
get you more detailed refs from a friend who has worked on German SD if you 
want. In the meantime look at:

http://www.amazon.com/Wilhelm-Liebknecht-Founding-German-Democratic/dp/0807896500/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335641730&sr=1-4

http://www.amazon.com/Wilhelm-Liebknecht-German-Social-Democracy/dp/0313282005/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335641761&sr=1-7

http://www.amazon.com/Wilhelm-Liebknecht-His-Thoughts-Works/dp/8171007627/ref=sr_1_13?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335641789&sr=1-13

http://www.amazon.com/Liebknecht-International-Publishers-including-Revolutionary/dp/B0043NYAU6/ref=sr_1_24?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335641815&sr=1-24

http://www.amazon.com/Mens-Feminism-August-Socialist-Movement/dp/1573928682/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335641863&sr=1-5

http://www.amazon.com/Speeches-August-Bebel-Voices-revolt/dp/B000869CR8/ref=sr_1_39?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335641912&sr=1-39

http://www.amazon.com/August-Bebel-His-Thought-Works/dp/8171007643/ref=sr_1_37?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335641927&sr=1-37

http://www.amazon.com/German-Socialism-Ferdinand-Lassalle-Biographical/dp/1112349227/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335641981&sr=1-5

http://www.amazon.com/Socialism-Ferdinand-Lassalle-William-Harbutt/dp/1117319202/ref=sr_1_90?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335642171&sr=1-90

http://www.amazon.com/Lassalle-The-Power-Illusion-And/dp/1436688752/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335641996&sr=1-6

http://www.amazon.com/Ferdinand-Lassalle-romantic-revolutionary-Footman/dp/0837122023/ref=sr_1_13?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335642020&sr=1-13

http://www.amazon.com/Ferdinand-Lassalle-as-Social-Reformer/dp/1463693990/ref=sr_1_94?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335642186&sr=1-94
 (highly recommended by Hal Draper)

http://www.amazon.com/Speeches-Ferdinand-Lassalle-Biographical-Sketch/dp/1161631380/ref=sr_1_28?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335642064&sr=1-28

http://www.amazon.com/Primrose-Path-Life-Ferdinand-Lassalle/dp/B0006D6WG2/ref=sr_1_52?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335642105&sr=1-52

http://www.amazon.com/Lassalle-Ferdinand-1825-1864-programme-International/dp/B004IOR6J2/ref=sr_1_84?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335642147&sr=1-84

http://www.amazon.com/The-Quest-Evolutionary-Socialism-Bernstein/dp/0521025052/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335642269&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.com/The-dilemma-democratic-socialism-Bernsteins/dp/B0007DJVR8/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335642278&sr=1-4





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Re: [Marxism] Query: Best books on pre-2nd International German Social Democracy

[Louis Proyect]

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On 4/27/12 9:38 PM, aaron s. amaral wrote:


Thanks Tom. I am actually reading this at present. It, along with the Lars
Lih and a re-reading of the Broue book on the German revolution has led me
to an interest in the early decades of German social democracy and, more
specifically, at the various trends both Marxist and other, which were
formative


I think this is the definitive account of what wrong in Germany in the 
1920s, covering the same ground as Broue but much tougher on the Comintern:


"Stillborn Revolution, the Communist Bid for Power in Germany, 
1921-1923", Werner T. Angress, Princeton, 1963)


Angress led an extraordinary life as well:

http://www.ilasting.com/tomangress.php


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Re: [Marxism] Query: Best books on pre-2nd International German Social Democracy

[aaron s. amaral]

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Thanks Tom. I am actually reading this at present. It, along with the Lars
Lih and a re-reading of the Broue book on the German revolution has led me
to an interest in the early decades of German social democracy and, more
specifically, at the various trends both Marxist and other, which were
formative

BTW, I was recently told that Schorske was amongst the most popular
lecturers at Berkeley in the early and mid-60s.

-aaron


On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 8:54 PM, Tom Cod  wrote:

> ==
> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> ==
>
>
> "German Social Democracy, 1905-1917: The Development of the Great
> Schism" (Widener Books, 1955) by Carl Schorske
>
> I read this book for a class when I was in college back in 1975.
> Written by an academic historian, it is an excellent and readable
> three hundred some page summary of the history of German social
> democracy from 1890 when the party was legalized and adopted the
> Erfurt Program to the Great War and the Bolshevik Revolution.   From
> this book I was able to glean this basic history and its material
> facts that had eluded me during my time in the socialist movement
> where personalities like Bernstein and Kautsky were bandied about in a
> glib and scattershot way.  The best part is his discussion of Karl
> Liebknecht and his anti-militarist activism in which he not only
> opposed imperialist war but called for mass agitation against it and
> conscription including within the ranks of the military itself.
>
> 
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Re: [Marxism] Query: Best books on pre-2nd International German Social Democracy

[Tom Cod]

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==


"German Social Democracy, 1905-1917: The Development of the Great
Schism" (Widener Books, 1955) by Carl Schorske

I read this book for a class when I was in college back in 1975.
Written by an academic historian, it is an excellent and readable
three hundred some page summary of the history of German social
democracy from 1890 when the party was legalized and adopted the
Erfurt Program to the Great War and the Bolshevik Revolution.   From
this book I was able to glean this basic history and its material
facts that had eluded me during my time in the socialist movement
where personalities like Bernstein and Kautsky were bandied about in a
glib and scattershot way.  The best part is his discussion of Karl
Liebknecht and his anti-militarist activism in which he not only
opposed imperialist war but called for mass agitation against it and
conscription including within the ranks of the military itself.


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Re: [Marxism] Query: Best books on pre-2nd International German Social Democracy

[aaron s. amaral]

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==


I've ordered it based on a few recommendations now
Many thanks.
-aaron

On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 2:49 PM, Louis Proyect  wrote:

>
> "Not One Man! Not One Penny!":
> German Social Democracy, 1863-1914
> Gary P. Steenson
>
> http://books.google.co.uk/**books/about/Not_One_Man_Not_**
> One_Penny.html?id=3zxE6CBPpX4C
>
>
> __**__
>
>
>
>

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Re: [Marxism] Query: Best books on pre-2nd International German Social Democracy

[Louis Proyect]

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"Not One Man! Not One Penny!":
German Social Democracy, 1863-1914
Gary P. Steenson

The German social democratic movement was the first mass, 
working-class party in world history, and a prototype for one of 
the major features of twentieth-century politics. Gary P. Steenson 
presents an introduction to the origins and development of German 
social democracy up to the First World War, by drawing upon 
protocols of the German Social Democratic Party, the party press, 
correspondence of leading figures, and scholarly research. 
Steenson also offers biographical sketches of prominent party 
officials, and translations of party programs and bylaws in the 
appendix.


http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Not_One_Man_Not_One_Penny.html?id=3zxE6CBPpX4C


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Re: [Marxism] query re housing and class

[Patrick Bond]

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On 2/14/2012 4:01 PM, Andrew Pollack wrote:

  pressure to pay the mortgage as a way of
disciplining workers?"


For South Africa there was plenty of evidence, which I cover here: 
http://ccs.ukzn.ac.za/files/Bond%20Cities%20Of%20Gold%20Townships%20Of%20Coal.pdf


The discipline extended from not only paying a monthly mortgage so thus 
disincentivizing strikes, but also generating a class project for 
aspirational sake.


The response twenty years ago (and often still today) was the famous 
'bond boycott' against repayment, in which collective defense against 
the bankers prevented a good many foreclosures.



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Re: [Marxism] query re housing and class

[Scott Ritner]

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==


Liza Cohen's "The Making of the New Deal" is a good start for a history of
the development of the idealization of housing, also Thomas Sugrue has two
books on how Home ownership and race are interconnected in with the
capitalist ideal of the United States: *"The Origins of the Urban Crisis:
Race and Inequality in Postwar Detroit"* and (though I haven't read this
one)"*The New Suburban History"

-s
*
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Thomas Bias  wrote:

> ==
> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> ==
>
>
> No, other than the famous quote by William Levitt (no man can be a
> communist
> if he owns his own home: he will have too much to do). However, here's what
> I said about it nearly a year ago:
>
> http://thomasbias.wordpress.com/notes-from-the-scrap-heap-from-bailey-park-t
> o-pottersville/. I'll add one other thing: when I took European history at
> Amherst in 1970 the professor, John Ratté, who was very much a liberal and
> spoke out strongly against the Vietnam war, argued that the New Deal
> borrowed a lot of its ideas from fascism. I thought he was off-the-wall at
> that time, but looking back, I now understand his point. (BTW, it was
> mainly
> in a discussion about European fascism, since it was a European history
> course.) Tom
>
> -Original Message-
> From: marxism-bounces+tgbias=ptd@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
> [mailto:marxism-bounces+tgbias=ptd@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu] On
> Behalf Of Andrew Pollack
> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 9:02 AM
> To: tgb...@ptd.net
> Subject: [Marxism] query re housing and class
>
> ==
> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> ==
>
>
> a query from a colleague teaching a class on labor:
>
> "Do you know of any published account of how home ownership was pushed by
> the powers that be among the working class in the US in order to undermine
> labour militancy? As in, the pressure to pay the mortgage as a way of
> disciplining workers?"
>
> Anyone know?
> 
> Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
> Set your options at:
>
> http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/tgbias%40ptd.ne
> t
>
>
>
> 
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>

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Re: [Marxism] query re housing and class

[Andrew Pollack]

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==


Thanks, Tom, this is very useful, including the link to your own article

I remember years ago there was an article somewhere about a parallel
phenomenon in New York, about how one of the subway lines was built or
expanded to encourage garment workers to leave the Lower East Side and move
up to the Bronx, in order to dilute the radical concentration on the LES.

And then there's GM's destruction of the L.A. rapid transit system...
By the way, I've always wondered about the reverse phenomenon of
working-class suburbs in European cities...

On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Thomas Bias  wrote:

>
> No, other than the famous quote by William Levitt (no man can be a
> communist
> if he owns his own home: he will have too much to do). However, here's what
> I said about it nearly a year ago:
>
> http://thomasbias.wordpress.com/notes-from-the-scrap-heap-from-bailey-park-t
> o-pottersville/. I'll add one other thing: when I took European history at
> Amherst in 1970 the professor, John Ratté, who was very much a liberal and
> spoke out strongly against the Vietnam war, argued that the New Deal
> borrowed a lot of its ideas from fascism. I thought he was off-the-wall at
> that time, but looking back, I now understand his point. (BTW, it was
> mainly
> in a discussion about European fascism, since it was a European history
> course.) Tom
>
> -Original Message-
> a query from a colleague teaching a class on labor:
>
> "Do you know of any published account of how home ownership was pushed by
> the powers that be among the working class in the US in order to undermine
> labour militancy? As in, the pressure to pay the mortgage as a way of
> disciplining workers?"
>
> Anyone know?
> 
>

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Re: [Marxism] query re housing and class

[Thomas Bias]

==
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==


No, other than the famous quote by William Levitt (no man can be a communist
if he owns his own home: he will have too much to do). However, here's what
I said about it nearly a year ago:
http://thomasbias.wordpress.com/notes-from-the-scrap-heap-from-bailey-park-t
o-pottersville/. I'll add one other thing: when I took European history at
Amherst in 1970 the professor, John Ratté, who was very much a liberal and
spoke out strongly against the Vietnam war, argued that the New Deal
borrowed a lot of its ideas from fascism. I thought he was off-the-wall at
that time, but looking back, I now understand his point. (BTW, it was mainly
in a discussion about European fascism, since it was a European history
course.) Tom

-Original Message-
From: marxism-bounces+tgbias=ptd@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
[mailto:marxism-bounces+tgbias=ptd@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu] On
Behalf Of Andrew Pollack
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 9:02 AM
To: tgb...@ptd.net
Subject: [Marxism] query re housing and class

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


a query from a colleague teaching a class on labor:

"Do you know of any published account of how home ownership was pushed by
the powers that be among the working class in the US in order to undermine
labour militancy? As in, the pressure to pay the mortgage as a way of
disciplining workers?"

Anyone know?

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t




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[Marxism] query

[Gary MacLennan]

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Comrades

I am trying to track down the sequel to Zhadanov's 1936 attack on
Shostakovitch's opera Lady Macbeth of Mtensk.  The Australian Communist
Party reduplicated the attack in a 1947/8 leaflet. Did a similar attack
happen in the States and elsewhere?

comradely

Gary

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Re: [Marxism] query--good academic on palmer raids, internment, McCarthy period etc.

[Louis Proyect]

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On 1/2/12 11:47 AM, Chris Gauvreau wrote:


hi marxmailers,

I am looking for recommendations for an academic who might anchor the
educational portion of a Feb. 19th event to launch a CT coalition
around indefinite detention.  We want a solid and authoritative
presentation on the history/politics of like measures in US history
in the twentieth century.  We are finding that many of the newly
active Muslim Americans and students have absolutely no idea with
what regularity the US has taken such steps.   It would be painless
for a professor or two from Massachusetts, Providence, or New York
City to make it here.


I think that Michael Ratner would be your best bet. Contact the Center 
for Constitutional Rights.



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[Marxism] Query

[Louis Proyect]

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==


Does any comrade have *serious* professional/prosumer camcorder 
expertise? Like knowing, for example, whether the lack of 
progressive mode on a Sony HXRMC50U camcorder is a show-stopper? 
(This is a reference to its reliance on an interlaced mode, not 
its relationship to the means of production.)


If so, please contact me privately.


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Re: [Marxism] query

[Mark Lause]

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Robert's Rules consolidated parliamentary procedures already in common
usage.  It forms the core of meeting procedures in just ab out any body in
the U.S., from tocal bloc club to the Congress . . . with specific bylaws in
application ,. . .

Most socialist groups with which I've ever been familiar have used a rather
loose version of it.

After experiencing the much touted alternative of the 1960s--"participatory
democracy"--it became very easy to make one's piece with the general lines
of Robert's Ruiles

ML

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Re: [Marxism] query

[Ian Angus]

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Steve asks:

>>A friend in Japan has asked me whether Robert's Rules of Order are recognized 
>>or used in all countries (nation-states, including failed states), 
especially as a form of parliamentary procedure. I have not a clue about 
>>how to answer his question. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

There are two dominant traditions in English speaking countries.

I believe that Robert's is based on the U.S. House of Representatives'
rules, but it is really designed to be used in non-governmental
organizations, and is so used in many countries. I've never heard of
Robert's as such being used in an actual legislature, but I suppose
it's possible.

The governments of most of the countries in the British commonwealth
follow procedures based on Erskine May’s "The Law, Privileges,
Proceedings and Usage of Parliament from Britain."

Canada uses its own unique variant, built largely around Arthur
Beauchesne’s "Parliamentary Rules and Forms of the House of Commons of
Canada," usually referred to just as Beauchesne's.

Ian Angus


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Re: [Marxism] query on 'Poverty of Philosophy'

[Ed George]

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Because of this preceding remark from chapter 1:

'If the relative value of a commodity is determined by the quantity of 
labor required to produce it, it follows naturally that the relative 
value of labor, or wages, is likewise determined by the quantity of 
labor needed to produce the wages. Wages, that is, the relative value or 
the price of labor, are thus determined by the labor time needed to 
produce all that is necessary for the maintenance of the worker.


'"Diminish the cost of production of hats, and their price will 
ultimately fall to their own new natural price, although the demand 
should be doubled, trebled, or quadrupled. Diminish the cost of 
subsistence of men, by diminishing the natural price of food and 
clothing, by which life is sustained, and wages will ultimately fall, 
notwithstanding the demand for laborers may very greatly increase."


'(Ricardo, Vol.II, p.253)

'Doubtless, Ricardo’s language is as cynical as can be. To put the cost 
of manufacture of hats and the cost of maintenance of men on the same 
plane is to turn men into hats. But do not make an outcry at the 
cynicism of it. The cynicism is in the facts and not in the words which 
express the facts.'


Marx in chapter 2 then goes on to say: 'If the Englishman transforms men 
into hats, the German transforms hats into ideas. The Englishman is 
Ricardo, rich banker and distinguished economist; the German is Hegel, 
simple professor at the University of Berlin.'



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[Marxism] query on 'Poverty of Philosophy'

[mark harris]

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Could someone explain the reference behind this statement in Ch 2 of the
Poverty of Philosophy?:

If the Englishman transforms men into hats, the German transforms hats into
ideas.
(Wenn der Engländer die Menschen in Hüte verwandelt, so verwandelt der
Deutsche die Hüte in Ideen)

The first half confuses me.

-- 
Mark Harris
Talisay City, Cebu, Philippines

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Re: [Marxism] Query on Carlos the Jackal

[Andrew Pollack]

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==


Exactly. By the same token, in thinking about recent mentions of
support by Syria et al. for various Palestinian groups, it reminded me
of the truly massive weapons shipments by the Soviet Union and China
to Vietnam -- which, if not as much as the Vietnamese wanted and
needed, were nonetheless crucial, and were similarly on the surface
out of line with their generally accommodationist foreign policy.


On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Louis Proyect  wrote:
> On 4/24/11 9:56 AM, Andrew Pollack wrote:
>>
> The interesting question for me is--if Carlos was in fact a Soviet-based
> operative--how this squares with the generally accommodationist foreign
> policy of the Kremlin. Something does not add up.
>
> 
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Re: [Marxism] Query on Carlos the Jackal

[Louis Proyect]

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On 4/24/11 9:56 AM, Andrew Pollack wrote:


Actually it does pertain to our mission. For instance, the support
over the years by pseudorevolutionary regimes (Syria, Libya, Iran,
etc.) for such individuals and groups is symptomatic.


You're probably right. I will be writing something later today about 
Hans Joachim Klein, nicknamed Angie, who took part in the OPEC hostage 
taking incident with Carlos. He is much more interesting than Carlos in 
many ways.


The interesting question for me is--if Carlos was in fact a Soviet-based 
operative--how this squares with the generally accommodationist foreign 
policy of the Kremlin. Something does not add up.



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Re: [Marxism] Query on Carlos the Jackal

[Andrew Pollack]

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==


Actually it does pertain to our mission. For instance, the support
over the years by pseudorevolutionary regimes (Syria, Libya, Iran,
etc.) for such individuals and groups is symptomatic.

On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Louis Proyect  wrote:
> > I have just watched the complete 320 minute movie. There are some rather
> unlikely plot details in part 3 that describe Carlos as having very solid
> relationships with the Soviet bloc, to the point that he is supposedly
> organizing an assassination against Sadat on contract from the Kremlin. I
> could not help but be reminded of the sort of stuff that Claire Sterling and
> Arnaud de Borchgrave wrote during the Reagan years. Can anybody recommend a
> solid, scholarly book on the "terror network"? Probably makes sense to
> contact me with this info privately since this does not exactly pertain to
> our mission here.
>


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[Marxism] Query on Carlos the Jackal

[Louis Proyect]

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==


I have just watched the complete 320 minute movie. There are some rather 
unlikely plot details in part 3 that describe Carlos as having very 
solid relationships with the Soviet bloc, to the point that he is 
supposedly organizing an assassination against Sadat on contract from 
the Kremlin. I could not help but be reminded of the sort of stuff that 
Claire Sterling and Arnaud de Borchgrave wrote during the Reagan years. 
Can anybody recommend a solid, scholarly book on the "terror network"? 
Probably makes sense to contact me with this info privately since this 
does not exactly pertain to our mission here.





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[Marxism] query

[rrpompeu]

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Dear co-listers, does anyone know if Lenin wrote something like "We, 
communists, are deeply guilty before the peoples of Russia" and where and when?
Thank your for your attention,
Renato


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[Marxism] Query

[Louis Proyect]

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In today's Counterpunch, Jean Bricmont claims that various 
Trostkyist groups are  calling for some sort of "humanitarian 
intervention" in Libya. Does anybody have any idea what he is 
referring to?



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Re: [Marxism] query....

[Mark Lause]

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Thanks to Jim, Michael and other respondents.  What I wanted in a
nutshell--something easily passed along to activists in the anti-austerity
movements--is actually well-presented in this Wikipedia piece.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast

We've gotten to this point as part of a conscious and deliberate strategy to
get us the economy to the point where the government can justify the massive
(and massively unpopular) cuts it wanted to make all along.

ML

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Re: [Marxism] query....

[michael perelman]

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That subject is a central theme in my book, The Confiscation of
Economic Prosperity.

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Mark Lause  wrote:
>
> The current wave of cuts is partly due to the international economic crisis,
> but the Republicans have been writing and publishing pieces for a long time
> in the US on their strategy for reducing government.  For many years, they
> were quite open about their plan to cut taxes, spend unprecedented amounts
> of money, and use the resulting budgetary crisis to justify cuts to popular
> supported programs.
>
> My question is whether there is a source somewhere that documents that
> strategy,.
>



-- 
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA
95929

530 898 5321
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http://michaelperelman.wordpress.com


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Re: [Marxism] query....

[Jim Farmelant]

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On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 17:06:02 -0500 Mark Lause 
writes:
> 
> 
> The current wave of cuts is partly due to the international economic 
> crisis,
> but the Republicans have been writing and publishing pieces for a 
> long time
> in the US on their strategy for reducing government.  For many 
> years, they
> were quite open about their plan to cut taxes, spend unprecedented 
> amounts
> of money, and use the resulting budgetary crisis to justify cuts to 
> popular
> supported programs.
> 
> My question is whether there is a source somewhere that documents 
> that
> strategy,.

You might want to start by looking up David Stockman
who fessed up to this almost thirty years ago after having
served as Reagan's budget director.

> 
> Merci.
> 
> ML
> 
> Jim Farmelant
http://independent.academia.edu/JimFarmelant
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[Marxism] query....

[Mark Lause]

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The current wave of cuts is partly due to the international economic crisis,
but the Republicans have been writing and publishing pieces for a long time
in the US on their strategy for reducing government.  For many years, they
were quite open about their plan to cut taxes, spend unprecedented amounts
of money, and use the resulting budgetary crisis to justify cuts to popular
supported programs.

My question is whether there is a source somewhere that documents that
strategy,.

Merci.

ML

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