[Marxism] Mike Marqusee's articles at Links
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Mike Marqusee was always keen to allow his excellent articles to be posted at Links International Journal of Socialist Renewal, which can be found collected at http://links.org.au/taxonomy/term/594 Short obit here: http://www.mikemarqusee.com/?p=1663 _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Free Speech at BBC?Journo resigns fter criticisn treatment of Palestinians
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * A BBC reporter has faced calls to resign after he told the daughter of Holocaust survivors in Paris: 'Palestinians suffer hugely at Jewish hands as well'. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2906539/Calls-BBC-reporter-resign-told-daughter-Holocaust-survivors-Paris-Palestinians-suffer-hugely-Jewish-hands-well.html -- “Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is humanity’s original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.” — Oscar Wilde, Soul of Man Under Socialism “The free market is perfectly natural... do you think I am some kind of dummy?” — Jarvis Cocker _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] South African labor leader calls for new socialist party
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Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * So I obviously don't agree with Dan's opinion about CH, but I think that particular question is a legitimate one. How should Marxists, Muslim or not, view Mohamed as a historical figure? On Tuesday, January 13, 2015, Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 1/13/15 9:14 PM, Dan via Marxism wrote: ising 100 lashes if you don’t die of laughter. And what was Mohammed if not a fairly standard oriental primitive ? He was oriental. He was primitive. And he was fairly standard in his lust for power and domination, using religion and military might to murder, plunder, rape and conquer. A fairly standard dictator who would order mass executions and torture prisoners, but also forgive certain tribes who swore allegiance to him. This kind of crude and ignorant Islamophobic trash does not belong on the Marxism list. I am instructing Dan and anybody else tempted to send out a message like this in the future that it will lead to removal from the list. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/ options/marxism/amithrgupta%40gmail.com -- - Amith _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The last time I saw Charb
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * If anything I think this post is Islamophobic, re: the 1.5 billion Muslims. The Mohamed-is-a-war-monger thing was crude but I think it at least contained a legitimate question. This one just lumps together 1.5 billion Muslims On Tuesday, January 13, 2015, Ken Hiebert via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Dan said (in part): Those whose agenda you are advancing want to gain infleunc over 1,5 billion Muslims to use them as pawns. They are the enemies of emancipation and rejoice when murdered cartoonists are called racist for criticizing religious fundamentalism. Ken Hiebert replies: Since you have raised the question of influence, is it your view that the cartoons were reducing the influence of the fundamentalists among Muslim youth? ken h _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/amithrgupta%40gmail.com -- - Amith _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
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Dan is clearly a hopeless racist.
But as for Amith's important question, best I know of is Maxime Rodinson's
biography.
On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 10:12 PM, A.R. G via Marxism
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:
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So I obviously don't agree with Dan's opinion about CH, but I think that
particular question is a legitimate one. How should Marxists, Muslim or
not, view Mohamed as a historical figure?
On Tuesday, January 13, 2015, Louis Proyect via Marxism
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:
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On 1/13/15 9:14 PM, Dan via Marxism wrote:
ising 100 lashes if you don’t die of laughter.
And what was Mohammed if not a fairly standard oriental primitive ? He
was oriental. He was primitive. And he was fairly standard in his lust
for power and domination, using religion and military might to murder,
plunder, rape and conquer. A fairly standard dictator who would order
mass executions and torture prisoners, but also forgive certain tribes
who swore allegiance to him.
This kind of crude and ignorant Islamophobic trash does not belong on the
Marxism list. I am instructing Dan and anybody else tempted to send out a
message like this in the future that it will lead to removal from the
list.
_
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[Marxism] What's new at Links: Sri Lanka, Charlie Hebdo, Greece SYRIZA, Direct vs. representative democracy, Venezuela brigade, Haiti, Revolutionary sport, Mexico, Marx and nature
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * What's new at Links: Sri Lanka, Charlie Hebdo, Greece SYRIZA, direct vs. representative democracy, Venezuela brigade, Haiti, Revolutionary sport, Mexico, Marx and nature * * * Subscribe free to Links - International Journal of Socialist Renewal - at http://www.feedblitz.com/f/?Sub=343373 You can also follow Links on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LinksSocialism or on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=10865397643 Visit and bookmark http://links.org.au and add it to your RSS feed (http://links.org.au/rss.xml). If you would like us to consider an article, please send it to linkssocial...@gmail.com *Please pass on to anybody you think will be interested in Links. *Comments welcome on all articles *Return daily for new articles * * * Sri Lanka: Behind Maithripala Sirisena's defeat of Mahinda Rajapaksa http://links.org.au/node/4238 By *Chris Slee* January 12, 2015 -- Maithripala Sirisena has taken office as president of Sri Lanka, after winning the election held on January 8. Sirisena obtained 51.28% of the vote, defeating incumbent president Mahinda Rajapaksa, who got 47.58%. * Read more http://links.org.au/node/4238 (Updated Jan. 13) Socialists condemn 'Charlie Hebdo' massacre, warn of Islamophobia in its wake http://links.org.au/node/4233 Statement by Australian *Socialist Alliance national co-conveners* on the Paris massacre Sydney, January 9, 2015 -- The Socialist Alliance Australia condemns the massacre of journalists, cartoonists and others at and around the offices of the Paris-based publication /Charlie Hebdo/. However offensive anyone may have found some of the cartoons published by /Charlie Hebdo/, this act of brutal violence is not justified. * Read more http://links.org.au/node/4233 Greece: Yanis Varoufakis on the economic crisis and why he is standing for SYRIZA http://links.org.au/node/4241 January 13, 2015 -- Beginning at 3.55 minutes, *Yanis Varoufakis*, professor of economic theory at the University of Athens, discusses the European economic crisis and expalins why he has chosen to be a SYRIZA candidate for parliament in the January 25, 2015, general election. France: 'Charlie Hebdo' would have run the headline: ‘Satraps who you have escaped’ http://links.org.au/node/4240 By *Thomas Cantaloube *and *Mathilde Mathieu* January 14, 2015 –To govern is to choose. By accepting the participation of dictators, jailers of opponents and enemies of the freedom of the press from all corners of the planet at the January 11 demonstration in memory of the victims of the Paris [/Charlie Hebdo/] attacks, the François Hollande-Manuel Valls government has once more demonstrated its cowardice. * Read more http://links.org.au/node/4240 Discussion: How do we rule? Direct and representative democracy and revolutionary power http://links.org.au/node/4239 By *Doug Enaa Greene* January 14, 2015 – I want to begin by stating that I am a firm and unapologetic advocate of the necessity of the dictatorship of the proletariat [to replace the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie we presently suffer under]. To deny the necessity of that dictatorship is to leave power in the hands of those who wield it – the exploiting capitalist class. And without the establishment of the dictatorship of the proletariat, you cannot lay the foundations of a society that provides for human needs and allows for the full development of human potential. * Read more http://links.org.au/node/4239 Report on 15th Australia-Venezuela Solidarity Network brigade to Venezuela http://links.org.au/node/4237 By *Paul Dobson*, brigade leader, Caracas January 12, 2015 -- Following months of organisation and planning, the Australia-Venezuela Solidarity Network’s 15th solidarity brigade touched down in Maiquetía International Airport in Caracas on December 1, 2014, at a highly important time for the Bolivarian revolution. * Read more http://links.org.au/node/4237 Haiti: Promised rebuilding unrealised; authoritarian rule challenged http://links.org.au/node/4236 /Important achievements in earthquake rehabilitation were achieved with the public health initiatives taken by Haiti's Ministry of Public Health in cooperation with large international missions and many smaller, vital health care projects. The contributions of Cuba and Partners In Health stood out./ By *Travis Ross* and *Roger Annis* * Read more http://links.org.au/node/4236 Revolutionary sport: exclusive excerpt from 'Sport in Capitalist Society' http://links.org.au/node/4235 */Sport in Capitalist Society/*/*: A short History*/ By Tony
[Marxism] Israel second worst nation for killing journalists, watchdog finds
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * While Netanyahu is widely mocked for his self-aggrandising, desperate behaviour at the Paris march on Sunday -- using it as an election campaigning event -- this report from Electronic Intifada that came out before the Charlie Hedbo killings reveals the bloody hypocrisy of Israel's leader in the front row of a march *against* the killing of journalists... http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israel-worlds-second-most-lethal-country-journalists-2014-watchdog-says -- “Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is humanity’s original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.” — Oscar Wilde, Soul of Man Under Socialism “The free market is perfectly natural... do you think I am some kind of dummy?” — Jarvis Cocker _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Sad news about Mike Marqusee
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Sad news about Mike Marqusee. My condolences to his family and friends. 'Mike Marqusee, my partner and our brother, died peacefully on 13 January 2015, aged 61. He was an inspiration to all of us, and to those who met him, or knew him through his writing. He had been ill with multiple myeloma, a bone marrow cancer, since 2007. He received extraordinary care from the NHS, and, latterly, from St Joseph's Hospice. The funeral will take place in the week starting 19 January, and there will be a memorial event in a few months' time. Details of both will be posted shortly. Please feel free to attend either, or both, events. Contributions can be made in Mike's memory to Medical Aid for Palestinians (www.map-uk.org), a cause close to Mike's heart, and/or to St Joseph's Hospice (www.stjh.org.uk). Messages can be sent to lizdav...@riseup.net.' Liz Davies, Jeff Marqusee, Joanne Marqusee, Susan Marqusee and Ellen Marqusee. --- Mike Marquesee on cancer: http://www.mikemarqusee.com/?p=1199 _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: Charlie Hebdo cartoons similar to when Irish were seen as apes - IrishCentral.com
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[Marxism] Fwd: LENIN'S TOMB: Anti-Muslim Racism from Above and From Below: On the Culturalization of Social Antagonisms in Neoliberalism
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Re: [Marxism] Sickening
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * that's right dark, not black, skin. along with the other features that you and others have mentioned. anyone seeing these caricatures can see that it's not depicting irrational whites (europeans), blacks (africans), asians (chinese), etc. but arabs. and given france's political problems it's easy to see why arabs are an easy target. so ch, as has been pointed out better by others, racialized islam. so while ch also may have attacked a form of islam (as well as islam more broadly as richard pointed out), they attacked arabs too. clearly. it's unfortunate that you want to deny it. their vile depictions of arabs does not justify their murder. but murder hardly needs further condemnation. i am not charlie because of its racism. charlie hebdo does not provide a standard for me to follow. - Original Message - From: Dan via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu To: Charles Faulkner lacena...@comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 5:27:17 PM Subject: [Marxism] Sickening POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Charb designed the Equal Opportunities anti-racist campaign, a poster in which a White boss tells a Black jobseeker : I would really love to hire you, but...er... I don't like the color of your ... er tie. And still, and still, and still, you will insist that he drew characters with dark, but not black skin. What a joke. So the guy hated fundamentalism, and you turn that into a hatred of dark, but not black skin Muslims, so as to disparage his anti-fundamentalism message and turn it into a racist, bigoted, xenophobic hatred of Muslims. You want to turn Charb into a guy who hated dark-skinned people, and have the cheek of writing think about it !, as though there was anything to think about. So go on ! Turn Charb into a racist who hated dark skinned people ! Go on! Go on ! After all, depictions of the prophet are just examples of crude orientalism. Never mind that the PAkistani or MAroccan governments use blasphemy laws to keep control of the masses! Who cares ! Maroccans, Saoudis, Pakistanis, are not us, are they ? And now we see WHO the real racists are. Those who would happily help out religious conservatism control society it it means criticizing other progressives and socialists they don't agree with. Sickening. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/lacenaire%40comcast.net _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] The last time I saw Charb
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * The last time I saw Charb was when he came to the national congress of SUD, the French Left-Wing trade union. He sat in a corner and produced caricatures of bosses exploiting workers and helped design slogans against the extension of the retirement age. Anyone who dares call Charb racist is, again, a VILE enemy of freedom, egalitarianism and progressive politics. You can repeat your lies all you want, all you are doing, in the long term, is helping a cause that is inimical to Human Rights and individual and collective freedom. Those whose agenda you are advancing want to gain infleunc over 1,5 billion Muslims to use them as pawns. They are the enemies of emancipation and rejoice when murdered cartoonists are called racist for criticizing religious fundamentalism. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Documentaries about Marx and Marxism
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Back in November somebody asked about films presenting Marxist ideas. I asked a friend and he has now found the information. ken h The History Book A new look at history from the bottom up by John Hess from Jump Cut, no. 6, 1975, pp. 7-8 copyright Jump Cut: A Review of Contemporary Media, 1975, 2004 THE HISTORY BOOK (produced by Li Vilstrup and Jannik Hastrup; distributed by Tricontinental Film center) is a nine-part cartoon history of the world from the middle ages to the present. A Marxist history lesson, it shows the key historical developments from the point of view of the people rather than that of the kings, queens, bankers and generals who profited from the others’ hard work. The major dialectical movement from feudalism through mercantilism to capitalism, colonialism, and imperialism is clearly shown and explained. A humorous rat, a constant observer of these developments, narrates much of the history which is acted out by colorful cartoon characters. Paintings, lithographs, maps and, toward the end, still photographs and documentary footage are also used to add color and authenticity to the fast-paced account of our history. We see the development of the following historical developments ·trade in Europe ·the colonization of Africa by Portugal and the rest of Europe ·the titanic struggle between the merchants and the landowners (fought, of course, by peasants and workers) ·the development of the state ·the slave trade and its vicious effects on the slaves and the disastrous effect on Africa ·early industrialization ·the development of finance capital and how this leads inevitably to economic crises (as we well know today) ·the development of socialism, imperialism, the world wars, neo-colonialism, and the third world liberation struggles (in the latter parts, six through nine). Surprisingly, the film was made for the Danish school system by the Danish Government Film Office. It’s hard to imagine U.S. schools using a film which validates a socialist conception of world history. Even liberal ideas about morality and religion draw vicious denunciations in many parts of the country. Although the film will be kept out of most schools, it can and will be used in all kinds of political education—in colleges, unions, community and political groups. The first six or seven parts are particularly good for this use since they present clear, precise analyses of historical developments. At the same time, they give understandable explanations of Marxist concepts such as capitalism, class struggle, imperialism, exploitation, and colonialism. For example, the film clearly shows how urban congestion, the slave trade, and depressions are necessary aspects of capitalism. The film makes it clear why capitalism, even at its best, cannot exist without exploitation of workers, expansion of markets (the cause of imperialism) and periodic crises (depressions). This basic understanding must precede the effective struggle for a better organization of human potential and society. THE HISTORY BOOK has two serious problems which do not, however, invalidate the film. But they should be taken into consideration when the film is screened. First, the film’s intellectual level and thus its possible audience changes drastically from the beginning to the end. The first five or six parts could be used in elementary schools; the last four or five parts could not be so used. In the early parts the filmmakers assume no special knowledge of either history or of the basic historical and economic concepts. They very patiently explain and demonstrate the main points. In the latter parts, perhaps because of the availability of documentary footage, and definitely because of the filmmakers’ own partisan emotional involvement in certain third world struggles, the filmmakers assume much greater knowledge of history and current affairs and begin to speak to the already convinced. The whole film would have been much better, much more coherent and useful, had they resisted the temptation to use documentary footage and the desire to advocate their own particular narrow political interest. In spite of this flaw, all nine parts of THE HISTORY HOOK are interesting, engaging, and very informative. Its use will stimulate valuable discussion within any group and strengthen people’s knowledge of the world’s development. The second problem involves the filmmakers’ advocacy in the later parts of the film of an uncritical third worldism. The position that the third world liberation struggles are the center of, the heart of, the cutting edge of “The
Re: [Marxism] Charlie Hebdo not Racist
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 14/01/2015 00:56, Lenin's Tomb wrote: One of the more famous covers for which CH was criticised was the one bearing the legend, Sharia Hebdo. On the cover, Mohammed was featured as guest editor, represented as a fairly standard oriental primitive, promising 100 lashes if you don’t die of laughter. And what was Mohammed if not a fairly standard oriental primitive ? He was oriental. He was primitive. And he was fairly standard in his lust for power and domination, using religion and military might to murder, plunder, rape and conquer. A fairly standard dictator who would order mass executions and torture prisoners, but also forgive certain tribes who swore allegiance to him. I understand this historically accurate portrait of Muhammad may shock Muslims but should it shock MArxists? Or are we also to forgo historical materialism and focus on the positive aspects of religion? The portrait of Mahomet as a war chief should therefore be altered ? To make him less oriental? What does that mean? Should we see him as Benjamin Franklin, would that be less oriental? Should we ignore the mode of production prevalent in the 7th century and cast Mahomet as a ... what? What is not ridiculous about Muhammad's petty desire for power and his vindicative scheming to become the top boss in the Arabian peninsula? Should we present him as a man with a HISTORIC MISSION? And Charlie's caption : a hundred lashes if you don't die laughing Tut.. Tut.. Not funny. Another racist, orientalizing picture of Muhammad. Very bad taste. My goodness, catch youself on, why don't you? _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The last time I saw Charb
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Dan said (in part): Those whose agenda you are advancing want to gain infleunc over 1,5 billion Muslims to use them as pawns. They are the enemies of emancipation and rejoice when murdered cartoonists are called racist for criticizing religious fundamentalism. Ken Hiebert replies: Since you have raised the question of influence, is it your view that the cartoons were reducing the influence of the fundamentalists among Muslim youth? ken h _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Sickening
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Charb designed the Equal Opportunities anti-racist campaign, a poster in which a White boss tells a Black jobseeker : I would really love to hire you, but...er... I don't like the color of your ... er tie. And still, and still, and still, you will insist that he drew characters with dark, but not black skin. What a joke. So the guy hated fundamentalism, and you turn that into a hatred of dark, but not black skin Muslims, so as to disparage his anti-fundamentalism message and turn it into a racist, bigoted, xenophobic hatred of Muslims. You want to turn Charb into a guy who hated dark-skinned people, and have the cheek of writing think about it !, as though there was anything to think about. So go on ! Turn Charb into a racist who hated dark skinned people ! Go on! Go on ! After all, depictions of the prophet are just examples of crude orientalism. Never mind that the PAkistani or MAroccan governments use blasphemy laws to keep control of the masses! Who cares ! Maroccans, Saoudis, Pakistanis, are not us, are they ? And now we see WHO the real racists are. Those who would happily help out religious conservatism control society it it means criticizing other progressives and socialists they don't agree with. Sickening. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 1/13/15 9:14 PM, Dan via Marxism wrote: ising 100 lashes if you don’t die of laughter. And what was Mohammed if not a fairly standard oriental primitive ? He was oriental. He was primitive. And he was fairly standard in his lust for power and domination, using religion and military might to murder, plunder, rape and conquer. A fairly standard dictator who would order mass executions and torture prisoners, but also forgive certain tribes who swore allegiance to him. This kind of crude and ignorant Islamophobic trash does not belong on the Marxism list. I am instructing Dan and anybody else tempted to send out a message like this in the future that it will lead to removal from the list. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: LENIN'S TOMB: Charlie Hebdo 'not racist'? If you say so.
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * To Charlie Hebdo, it’s always been good form to scoff at the “fat idiots” who like football and watching TF1 [television network]. A slippery slope. Belief in one’s own superiority, accustomed to looking down on the common herd, is the surest way to sabotage one’s own intellectual defences and to allow them to fall over in the least gust of wind. Your own, although supported by a good education, comfortable income and the pleasant team spirit of “Charlie’s gang”, collapsed at a stupefying speed. I remember a full-page article by Caroline Fourest which appeared on June 11 2008. In it, she recounted her friendly meeting with the Dutch cartoonist Gregorius Nekschot, who had gotten some grief for representing his Muslim fellow-countrymen in a particularly hilarious way. Judge for yourself: an imam dressed as Santa Claus buggering a goat, with the caption: “We have to share our traditions”. Or an Arab, slumped on a couch and lost in thought: “The Qur’an doesn’t say if you have to do anything to be on the dole for 30 years.” Or even the “monument to the slavery of white indigenous taxpayers”: a Dutch person in foot shackles, carrying a black person on his back, arms crossed and sucking on a pacifier. Foul racism? Oh come on, it’s freedom of expression! Certainly, Fourest granted, the slightly coarse humour of her friend “doesn’t always travel well”, but it must be understood “in the Dutch context which is ultra-tolerant, even angelic, towards fundamentalism.” Whose fault is it if Muslims leave themselves open to gags with export difficulties? That of Muslims themselves and their over-angelic allies, obviously. As Nekschot himself explained to Charlie Hebdo’s readers, “Muslims must understand that humour has been part of our tradition for centuries.” full: http://www.leninology.co.uk/2015/01/charlie-hebdo-not-racist-if-you-say-so.html _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: Jerome Roos: What happens in Greece can transform Europe
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * (Considering Roos's long-standing autonomist predilections,it is interesting that he supports a Syriza victory.) Q: The forthcoming Greek elections may bring the Left to power. What’s their significance and meaning for Greece and Europe? A: As a general matter, I do not ascribe very great significance to elections in the broader social struggle, but it's obvious that these elections are different. Greece finds itself in a permanent state of emergency, and there is no doubt that this will be the most monumental vote since the fall of the junta. Obviously the prospect of the radical left taking power for the first time in EU history is significant in and of itself, and given Syriza’s stated intentions to renegotiate the debt and take on the oligarchs, there is a genuine prospect of an improvement in overall conditions – if only to provide much-needed breathing space to working people, the unemployed and the movements. And needless to say, the possible demise of the two-party political aristocracy that has ruled the country since the fall of the junta would be a historical development per se. full: http://analyzegreece.gr/files/solidarity-resistance/item/49-jerome-roos-what-happens-in-greece-can-transform-europe _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Judith Butler - What's Wrong With 'All Lives Matter'? - NYTimes.com
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * a little tedious isn't it, repeating the obvious as if she's unraveling a difficult, hardly understood, philosophical problem in the old analytical tradition. - Original Message - From: Dennis Brasky via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu To: Charles Faulkner lacena...@comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 7:33:28 AM Subject: [Marxism] Judith Butler - What's Wrong With 'All Lives Matter'? - NYTimes.com POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/01/12/whats-wrong-with-all-lives-matter/?action=clickpgtype=Homepageversion=Moth-Visiblemodule=inside-nyt-region ®ion=inside-nyt-regionWT.nav=inside-nyt-region _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/lacenaire%40comcast.net _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Jerome Roos: What happens in Greece can transform Europe
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 1/13/15 9:18 AM, Andrew Pollack wrote: full at http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article3804 The Greek left wing, Syriza and Antarsya have particular responsibility in building a unitive project, which goes beyond these organizations, but can bring together trade unionists, campaign activists, ecologists. Maybe I am missing something but Antarsya got 2.7 percent of the vote in the 2014 regional elections. If I were in Greece, I'd be part of Syriza's left wing and not wasting my time in an ill-conceived socialist alliance type formation. You can get an idea of the sectarian conceptions of Antarsya from this article that appeared in International Viewpoint as well: • ANTARSYA is an irreplaceable political conquest of the anticapitalist and revolutionary left in Greece. Every single organization, smaller or larger, is by far less recognizable than ANTARSYA as a whole. • ANTARSYA brings together a significant number of some thousands militants, who are basically in the vanguard of their workplaces or their field of intervention. • It is the only force of the left that is capable of addressing both the massive radicalization that today makes its first “political stop” in the reformist proposal of SYRIZA and those militants of the CP that are deeply worried about the choices of its leadership. • It is the only political force with a nation-wide range who has elaborated and formulated the core of a transitional program, linking the existing struggles in the present conditions with the perspective of a rupture with capitalism. http://www.internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article3359 Idiotic. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Andrei Zvyagintsev’s Leviathan
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * https://convincingreasons.wordpress.com/2014/08/01/the-war-of-all-against-all-a-review-of-andrei-zvyagintsevs-leviathan/ _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] An important interview with Piketty
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * A comprehensive interview with Piketty with a lot of surprising answers, some of which I tried to copy below. Sorry if this has been posted here before. http://potemkinreview.com/ A lot of people argue that the First World War in particular was a sort of nationalist response to the very high social tensions and inequalities that characterized pre-WW1 European countries and I think there is a lot to that. I am very Leninist in that sense. Nationalism was a way to solve the internal contradictions, but I think the contradiction that societies were trying to solve was very high inequality and social tensions, and not really economic per se. From a strictly economic viewpoint, rg and huge inequalities can go on forever, and until the First World War this is what all societies of the past looked like, including those before the industrial revolution. What I try to say in my book is that the industrial revolution did not change the basic structure of inequality and property as we imagined for a long time. ... I do not believe in the basic neoclassical model. But I think it is a language that is important to use in order to respond to those who believe that if the world worked that way everything would be fine. And one of the messages of my book is, first, it does not work that way, and second, even if it did, things would still be almost as bad. ... All I am saying to neoclassical economists is this: if you really want to stick to your standard model, very small departures from it like an elasticity of substitution slightly above 1 will be enough to generate what we observe in recent decades. But there are many other, and in my view more plausible, ways to explain it. You should be aware of the fact that even with your perfect competition and simplified one good assumption, things can still go wrong, in the sense that the capital share can rise, etc. ... http://potemkinreview.com/ _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Charlie Hebdo not Racist
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Charlie Hebdo never published anything racist. Ever. Says me. If you can show me real evidence of a RACIST cartoon or statement from Charlie Hebdo, please do so. Depicting Jesus being buggered is not racist. Depicting religious zealots, with long beards and holding the Coran, buggering goats is not racist. Comparing such depictions of religious zealots to anti-Irish cartoons of the 19th century is blatently Charlie HEbdo was ALWAYS careful to point out that fundamentalist ISlam was the problem not Muslims. I realize the Saoudi, Quatari and Pakistani authorities are spending billions trying to control 1.5 billion Muslims by projecting ISlam as under siege. The aim is to relegate Human Rights to the dustbin of history so that religiously sanctioned ambitions can dominate. Fortunately, a majority of Muslims can still think for themsleves and marched in support of Charlie Hebdo, at least in France. Depicting Chalrie HEbdo as racist for portraying ISIS and AL Quaeda and fundamentalist preachers as goat-fuckers is not racism. Claiming the contrary is Islamist propaganda and siding with the religious authorities of countries where blaspheming is banned and so is social activism. I suspect some on the left have lost sight of the goal of human emancipation, the better to wax lyrical about the empowering, communal aspects of religion. And other such horse manure born from deeply ingrained American religiosity. So SHOW ME an example of so called Charlie HEbdo racism ! _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Socialism makes sense
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Bertolt Brecht’s evaluation that socialism 'is not madness, but the end of madness' rings true, writes Ben Hillier in Red Flag. The main obstacle to the eradication of poverty, inequality and the accompanying violence remains the centralisation of the world’s productive assets in the hands of a tiny minority of the population. Socialism – a world run to fulfil human need rather than fuel private greed, in which there is no privileged class of human beings – remains a sensible idea in a chaotic 21st century. Anyone can understand it. http://enpassant.com.au/2015/01/14/socialism-makes-sense/ _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Jerome Roos: What happens in Greece can transform Europe
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 13/01/2015 05:15 μμ, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: On 1/13/15 9:18 AM, Andrew Pollack wrote: full at http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article3804 The Greek left wing, Syriza and Antarsya have particular responsibility in building a unitive project, which goes beyond these organizations, but can bring together trade unionists, campaign activists, ecologists. Maybe I am missing something but Antarsya got 2.7 percent of the vote in the 2014 regional elections. If I were in Greece, I'd be part of Syriza's left wing and not wasting my time in an ill-conceived socialist alliance type formation. You can get an idea of the sectarian conceptions of Antarsya from this article that appeared in International Viewpoint as well: [] http://www.internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article3359 Idiotic. Dear Louis Back in the seventies, been a teenager ignorant member of the youth of Greek CP, i proposed the ideological cycle of the party to consider, study and present in the plenum, the social basis of maoism, according to the current at the time belief in Greek CP in a kind of sharp and clear correspondence between ideologies and social classes. How come! the secretary exclaimed.They are just idiots! What else to be said? Thus, i learned that other peoples' idiocy explains nothing, but nevertheless it may be used as by the secretary, to attribute to the maoists his own lack of explanation. As for ANTARSYA, you are missing something indeed: The fact that Syriza's bumble parliamentary success is the signature of mass' radicalization. As is usual the case with reformists, they are the first step of the mass' movement to the left. If that movement continue on, SYRIZA can hardly hope to keep the current mass' support. Again if that process stop, then SYRIZA will probably show the ugly face of reformism. Meanwhile, and being a bumble, SYRIZA has no live connections with the working class other than electoral clientele. Thus it restricts its political action in spectacular activism from above, while seeks to incorporate the desperate corrupted syndicalist apparatus of a dying PASOK. That worker's aristocracy, plunged for decades in state corruption and specialized to working class manipulation, can hardly be a positive factor in transforming the working class interests into SYRIZA policy. On the other hand, ANTARSYA does have such class connections forged to the struggles with and within workers' organizations. Example: in Greek Federation of Secondary State School Teachers (OLME, about 100 000 members that is 1% of the whole Greek population) SYRIZA gets 27-28% of the votes (1n 2014) just the same as in parliamentary elections, and ANTARSYA (which indeed got 2,7% in regional elections) gets almost 20% of the votes(2014). Not bad at all for a sectarian group, isn't it ? Well, unlike SYRIZA, which seeks always to restraint and calm down the working class, we put the struggles forward, we gain support. And that, in spite of SYRIZA's growing electoral support. For sure, be prepared to hear soon much more unusual news from greece An idiot J.A. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: LENIN'S TOMB: Anti-Muslim Racism from Above and From Below: On the Culturalization of Social Antagonisms in Neoliberalism
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 13.01.2015 20:00, Andrew Pollack via Marxism wrote: Love the conclusion: How can perspectives be developed in which the interests of many groups can be combined in solidarity? Cross-cultural, counter-hegemonic orientations and identities can only emerge in the long-term in common discussions that cross the barriers of different social groups without disregarding their differences within capitalist and racist relations of power. Some approaches might be the efforts towards a transnational network for a “social Europe” and global justice “from below” (such as campaigns for global social rights) and the extension of anti-racist counter-mobilizations towards (long-term) social alliances against anti-Muslim racism and precarization, security policies and economic nationalism. This is a (good) translation of a piece from a German group called Gruppe Soziale Kämpfe (Social Struggles Group). The ideas discussed are very interesting but the rather obscure language used is, unfortunately, quite typical of much discussion on the German left. Einde O'Callaghan _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Bernard Maris
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Bernard Maris, the French left-wing economist and sociologist, and columnist for Charlie Hebdo, murdered by Islamists last week, wrote several interesting books about the way authority and economics structure our world-view. He addressed the question of alienation in a post-fordist world in a way that is reminiscent of Marcuse. I defy ANYBODY to read his books and show me anything right-wing or racist about his work. On the contrary, he advocated workshop democracy and confronting Capitalism as an ideology. Those who would sully his legacy by calling him racist are VILE enemies of human freedom, egalitarianism and progressive thinking. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Charlie Hebdo not Racist
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * i'm no expert on charlie hebdo but i think if you go back and look at the images you will see that they typically portray arab muslims, not just muhammad, in the most grotesque way. never white muslims for instance, or asian muslims for that matter. consistently arab muslims. it just looks obvious that the cartoons are meant to provoke the muslims in france, who are mostly arab. comparisons to cartoons in america and elsewhere abound and the irish example is very well taken. it really is disingenuous to flaunt such cartoons and then claim that great care was taken to make a distinction. wax lyrical about religion? not here friend. - Original Message - From: Dan via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu To: Charles Faulkner lacena...@comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 2:56:52 PM Subject: [Marxism] Charlie Hebdo not Racist POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Charlie Hebdo never published anything racist. Ever. Says me. If you can show me real evidence of a RACIST cartoon or statement from Charlie Hebdo, please do so. Depicting Jesus being buggered is not racist. Depicting religious zealots, with long beards and holding the Coran, buggering goats is not racist. Comparing such depictions of religious zealots to anti-Irish cartoons of the 19th century is blatently Charlie HEbdo was ALWAYS careful to point out that fundamentalist ISlam was the problem not Muslims. I realize the Saoudi, Quatari and Pakistani authorities are spending billions trying to control 1.5 billion Muslims by projecting ISlam as under siege. The aim is to relegate Human Rights to the dustbin of history so that religiously sanctioned ambitions can dominate. Fortunately, a majority of Muslims can still think for themsleves and marched in support of Charlie Hebdo, at least in France. Depicting Chalrie HEbdo as racist for portraying ISIS and AL Quaeda and fundamentalist preachers as goat-fuckers is not racism. Claiming the contrary is Islamist propaganda and siding with the religious authorities of countries where blaspheming is banned and so is social activism. I suspect some on the left have lost sight of the goal of human emancipation, the better to wax lyrical about the empowering, communal aspects of religion. And other such horse manure born from deeply ingrained American religiosity. So SHOW ME an example of so called Charlie HEbdo racism ! _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/lacenaire%40comcast.net _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Bernard Maris
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * the question is not whether or not maris is right wing. i, for one, don't give a shit. the question is whether or not publishing racist cartoons is consistent with socialism or any other left stance we need care about. i couldn't help notice in wikipedia that marist joined a freemason lodge in 2008. is that true? how is that consistent with him being a member of the left wing? - Original Message - From: Dan via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu To: Charles Faulkner lacena...@comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 3:20:22 PM Subject: [Marxism] Bernard Maris POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Bernard Maris, the French left-wing economist and sociologist, and columnist for Charlie Hebdo, murdered by Islamists last week, wrote several interesting books about the way authority and economics structure our world-view. He addressed the question of alienation in a post-fordist world in a way that is reminiscent of Marcuse. I defy ANYBODY to read his books and show me anything right-wing or racist about his work. On the contrary, he advocated workshop democracy and confronting Capitalism as an ideology. Those who would sully his legacy by calling him racist are VILE enemies of human freedom, egalitarianism and progressive thinking. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/lacenaire%40comcast.net _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Charlie Hebdo not Racist
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Charlie HEbdo was ALWAYS careful to point out that fundamentalist ISlam was the problem not Muslims. This is like saying Judeo-Bolshevism was the problem, not Jews. There is no such thing as fundamentalist Islam. Islam is a set of religious practices and traditions unified only vaguely through it's association with the Qu'ran and the Hadiths (vague, often unsubstantiated, purported sayings of the Prophet Mohammed). It is practiced differently by different people in different contexts, and even the extent to which Islamic practices govern over the lives of its adherents varies from both place to place and time to time. The idea that there is this practice called Islamic extremism or fundamentalist Islam is a fabrication, used to group different groups of Muslims from different parts of the world with a vague category while leaving room for exceptions for Muslims perceived to be behaving. As for Muslims marching through France, obviously different Muslims, like different people, have different views on how to react. Some may be marching because they genuinely think that shooting cartoonists is the wrong way to go about expressing offense, others may be doing so to show the genuineness of their membership in French society (which has defined unity around turning anti-Muslim cartoonists into national martyrs), others may be marching because some of the victims themselves were Muslims, more may be marching for god knows what reason. We just had a march with over 40 world leaders, many of whom have a long history of murdering and torturing journalists when convenient, and French officials who have made careers criminalizing some forms of dissent (Gaza marches), some forms of intolerance (anti-Jewish jokes), some forms of conspiracism (Holocaust denial), while celebrating and lampooning intolerance and convenience in other contexts (i.e. that Muslims form an international conspiracy, etc.) Marching in a national march that is so inclusive that it includes people who disagree with the march's supposed premise says little about the motives of the people marching. As for Charlie Hebdo's racism, I think the Boko Haram cartoon did it for me: https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/2925558/CHARLIE-HEBDO.0.jpg Even the ones that supposedly only criticize the Prophet Mohammed are all caricatures that emphasize supposed Arab features, the same way as historical anti-Semitic cartoons did with Jews. I'm willing to admit, some of CH's cartoons are not racist, and indeed many are quite witty -- such as the cartoons condemning the massacre in Gaza, or Marine Le Pen, or De Gaulle. But those involve mocking abuses of power and/or those who seek to abuse power. They are the opposite of targeting an already marginalized ethnic group with such degrading depictions. Moreover, spreading the notion that Muslims and their alleged backwardness in France is due to their religious beliefs being taken to extremes -- as opposed to, for example, their social isolation, stemming at least partially from the kind of widely accepted media invective against them egged on by mags like CH -- is once again a repetition of the racist narrative about the danger posed by immigrants with different religious views. The narrative about the shootings itself is a good example. Instead of emphasizing the shooters' reaction following the US invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan and the torture of Muslims in those countries; and the widespread acceptance (with criticism) of the officials responsible throughout Europe and America; or the obvious reasons why Muslims in France might vicariously identify with tortured and besieged Muslims in other parts of the world, such as their social isolation or their own historical roots as targets of French colonialism; the despondency and extremist behavior of the shooters was immediately reduced to their religious beliefs being taken to an extreme. All societal factors that provide meaningful context were removed. Within that context, I think it's pretty obvious why someone would find the CH cartoons to be essentially a form of racist incitement. - Amith On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Dan via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Charlie Hebdo never published anything racist. Ever. Says me. If you can show me real evidence of a RACIST cartoon or statement from
Re: [Marxism] Bernard Maris
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * So what if Bernard Maris joined the Freemasons ? I'm not a Freemason but from what I understand, freemasonry (the French version is much more progressive than the US version BTW) is about affirming the infinite potential of humankind. That and establishing a useful social network. Do YOU think fFeemasons are more sinister than, say, Salafist preachers? Enlighten me. On 14/01/2015 00:32, Charles Faulkner wrote: the question is not whether or not maris is right wing. i, for one, don't give a shit. the question is whether or not publishing racist cartoons is consistent with socialism or any other left stance we need care about. i couldn't help notice in wikipedia that marist joined a freemason lodge in 2008. is that true? how is that consistent with him being a member of the left wing? *From: *Dan via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu *To: *Charles Faulkner lacena...@comcast.net *Sent: *Tuesday, January 13, 2015 3:20:22 PM *Subject: *[Marxism] Bernard Maris POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Bernard Maris, the French left-wing economist and sociologist, and columnist for Charlie Hebdo, murdered by Islamists last week, wrote several interesting books about the way authority and economics structure our world-view. He addressed the question of alienation in a post-fordist world in a way that is reminiscent of Marcuse. I defy ANYBODY to read his books and show me anything right-wing or racist about his work. On the contrary, he advocated workshop democracy and confronting Capitalism as an ideology. Those who would sully his legacy by calling him racist are VILE enemies of human freedom, egalitarianism and progressive thinking. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/lacenaire%40comcast.net _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Bernard Maris
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * you guys? are you talking to me? i think i made it clear that his credentials didn't matter as far as i was concerned. and that racism is inconsistent with socialism ... despite the obvious failures of some individuals. - Original Message - From: A.R. G amithrgu...@gmail.com To: Charles Faulkner lacena...@comcast.net, Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 3:39:10 PM Subject: Re: [Marxism] Bernard Maris Wait a second, why would it matter what leftist credentials any of these people had? Even if they were all card-carrying members of the Communist Party, how would it change whether or not the cartoons themselves are racist? Are you guys suggesting that leftist credentials prevent one from being a racist, or at least expressing racist ideas? I'm sure Maris contributed great ideas and I think it is wrong that he and his comrades were killed, but that doesn't change the nature of the cartoons. - Amith On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 3:32 PM, Charles Faulkner via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * the question is not whether or not maris is right wing. i, for one, don't give a shit. the question is whether or not publishing racist cartoons is consistent with socialism or any other left stance we need care about. i couldn't help notice in wikipedia that marist joined a freemason lodge in 2008. is that true? how is that consistent with him being a member of the left wing? - Original Message - From: Dan via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu To: Charles Faulkner lacena...@comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 3:20:22 PM Subject: [Marxism] Bernard Maris POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Bernard Maris, the French left-wing economist and sociologist, and columnist for Charlie Hebdo, murdered by Islamists last week, wrote several interesting books about the way authority and economics structure our world-view. He addressed the question of alienation in a post-fordist world in a way that is reminiscent of Marcuse. I defy ANYBODY to read his books and show me anything right-wing or racist about his work. On the contrary, he advocated workshop democracy and confronting Capitalism as an ideology. Those who would sully his legacy by calling him racist are VILE enemies of human freedom, egalitarianism and progressive thinking. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/lacenaire%40comcast.net _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/amithrgupta%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Charlie Hebdo not Racist
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * The what??? The dark, but not black skin? Are you kidding me? Crazy guys, with big noses (that's Charb for you), bloodshot eyes, a suicide vest on, the mouth foaming, and you're concentrating on the dark, but not black skin ??? How can you even tell the colour of the skin,Charb always drew all his characters with yellow skins, Caucasians as you Yankees say and Non-Caucasians alike. He drew black people, black and everybody else, YELLOW. Are you serious? His trademark was drawing everybody with a big nose ! What an insult to Charb, the greatest cartoonist France ever had ! How is it even, remotely, possible to call Charb a racist? He drew so many cartoons making fun of Le Pen, nationalists, the military, bosses, the elite, always on the side of the down-trodden and the weak. And all you can do is write about dark, but not black skin As if it mattered to Charb? This is truely disgusting, and, although I'm not one for conspiracies, but smacks of a black op, the disseminating of false information, very false information. Charb was definitely a left-wing radical, and sugesting he was racist can only work on ignorant people, who have not seen Charb's work, week after week for 30 years, just a few carefully selected pictures with disgusting ideas of racism superimposed. You are completely unaware of the fact that you are being manipulated by those who seek to make Islam appear under attack so as to create a Muslim society where conformity and fear are the order of the day. On 14/01/2015 00:41, Charles Faulkner wrote: don't forget the dark, but not black, skin. i hope you feel better after you think about it. *From: *Dan d.koech...@wanadoo.fr *To: *Charles Faulkner lacena...@comcast.net, Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu, marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu *Sent: *Tuesday, January 13, 2015 3:36:05 PM *Subject: *Re: [Marxism] Charlie Hebdo not Racist They depicted RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS as goat-fuckers. My God (or no God) ! Can't you see the difference between an Arab Muslim and a Religious Zealot? Or do YOU think all Arab Muslims are religious fundamentalists? In that case, YOU, my friend, are racist. Very racist. Fortunately, Charlie Hebdo, ALWAYS made sure that viewers would UNMISTAKINGLY understand that a character with a long beard, a crazed expression, a long robe and a blade/or bomb was a bigot. This did NOT apply to Muslims generally. Charlie was also infamous for depicting nuns as crazy, the French military as bloodthirsty, vainglorious buffoons, orthodox jews as people with a kippa and long yarmaduks, Israeli Soldiers as killers, etc. To claim that Charlie was/is racist is not only disengenious, it is a purpouseful lie that can only benefit those who want to impose THEIR NOTION that all Muslims SHOULD become crazed zealots. On 14/01/2015 00:22, Charles Faulkner wrote: i'm no expert on charlie hebdo but i think if you go back and look at the images you will see that they typically portray arab muslims, not just muhammad, in the most grotesque way. never white muslims for instance, or asian muslims for that matter. consistently arab muslims. it just looks obvious that the cartoons are meant to provoke the muslims in france, who are mostly arab. comparisons to cartoons in america and elsewhere abound and the irish example is very well taken. it really is disingenuous to flaunt such cartoons and then claim that great care was taken to make a distinction. wax lyrical about religion? not here friend. *From: *Dan via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu *To: *Charles Faulkner lacena...@comcast.net *Sent: *Tuesday, January 13, 2015 2:56:52 PM *Subject: *[Marxism] Charlie Hebdo not Racist POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Charlie Hebdo never published anything racist. Ever. Says me. If you can show me real evidence of a RACIST cartoon or statement from Charlie Hebdo, please do so. Depicting Jesus being buggered is not racist. Depicting religious zealots, with long beards and holding the Coran, buggering goats is not racist. Comparing such depictions of religious zealots to
[Marxism] Of course
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * And I hasten to add, lest my words be misinterpreted, when I wrote :A Muslim society ruled by conformity, I meant the Wahabbi version of Islam being promoted by fundamentalists, not the version of Islam that most French people follow and which abhors violence. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
