date:20150216

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On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 1:38 AM, Michael Karadjis via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

The conflict was over Hezbollah killing a couple of Zionist troops near the
> border. Now I don’t much care about Zionist troops, but one may well ask
> what the attack was about. Israel had been provocative, was reportedly
> breaking the sound barrier in the region etc. Israel still held a tiny
> area, the Shebaa Farms. If Hezbollah’s attack had the upfront, announced
> explicit aim of liberating that small region it is certainly justified. But
> the price was that Israel again destroyed the whole of Lebanon and
> massacred hundreds of Lebanese, a price, it seems, Lebanese as a whole are
> not willing to pay again for a few square km in Shebaa.

This, I genuinely don't understand. You obviously know the history of the
2006 war. Do you not buy the story that Hezbollah sought to capture Israeli
soldiers to exchange for Lebanese and Arab prisoners held by Israel, as
they ultimately did with bodies of two in 2008?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/16/AR2008071600282.html

Incidentally, even Nasrallah admitted in August 2006 that the cost of the
operation had not been worth it. By that point, Israel's batshit-craziness
had killed its two captive soldiers, perhaps in an early manifestation of
the Hannibal Directive, among many others.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/aug/28/syria.israel

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[Marxism] #SolidarityWithGreece spreads across Europe with street protests

2015-02-16 Thread Stuart Munckton via Marxism

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Thousands of people hit the streets of Europe in solidarity with the Greek
people and their newly-elected left-wing government, which is looking to
undo years of imposed economic austerity programs.

“Let Greece breathe” has become the rallying cry for those who want
Greece’s new Syriza’s government to have a chance to tread a new path for
Europe.

Demonstrations in cities across Britain, France, Spain and elsewhere stood
in solidarity with massive crowds in Greece to express support for the
Syriza government led by new Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras.
https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/58298

-- 
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original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made,
through disobedience and through rebellion.” — Oscar Wilde, Soul of Man
Under Socialism

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Re: [Marxism] Al-Akhbar editor at his most psychotic

2015-02-16 Thread Michael Karadjis via Marxism

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From: A.R. G 

Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 3:34 PM



“Still, the reason I am hesitant to withdraw any support for them entirely is 
because I do not, as you see it, think their liberation of Southern Lebanon was 
simply a past victory. Hezbollah is the reason that Israel cannot simply march 
into Lebanon as it pleases, and the last time they tried, they got their asses 
handed to them by Hezbollah. That is important. For the people that lived under 
18 years of Israeli occupation, many of whom were originally expelled by Israel 
from Palestine in the first place, that is not a small victory and not 
something worth risking.”



I wasn’t underestimating what they did in the decade and a half leading to full 
liberation of the south in 2000. That was a magnificent victory and no-one said 
otherwise. But for how many years can an organisation live off past glories 
when it is playing a directly counterrevolutionary role in a massive war crime 
scene for 3 years now? But I don’t want to argue; from your response, you agree 
about its role in Syria. We won’t convince each other of the nitty gritty of 
our “support” or otherwise which as Joseph Catron points out (in this case I 
agree) doesn’t count for much.



The other part: “Hezbollah is the reason that Israel cannot simply march into 
Lebanon as it pleases, and the last time they tried, they got their asses 
handed to them by Hezbollah.”



OK, this is an interesting topic. But since Israel was ejected from Lebanon in 
2000, I find this argument somewhat circular. As long as there is an actual 
occupation, those resisting it have a right to be called “resistance.” Yes, 
Hezbollah prevented Israel marching in in 2006. The battle of Bint Jbeil was a 
magnificent victory. I wrote some glorifying stuff about Hezbollah at the time, 
some of which would now look weird.



But, did Israel “march into Lebanon” in 2006 in order to re-establish the 
occupation? I doubt it. Being thrown out after 22 years was pretty definitive I 
think. The conflict was over Hezbollah killing a couple of Zionist troops near 
the border. Now I don’t much care about Zionist troops, but one may well ask 
what the attack was about. Israel had been provocative, was reportedly breaking 
the sound barrier in the region etc. Israel still held a tiny area, the Shebaa 
Farms. If Hezbollah’s attack had the upfront, announced explicit aim of 
liberating that small region it is certainly justified. But the price was that 
Israel again destroyed the whole of Lebanon and massacred hundreds of Lebanese, 
a price, it seems, Lebanese as a whole are not willing to pay again for a few 
square km in Shebaa. 



Israel’s megalomaniacal rulers then made the colossally stupid error of sending 
in an invasion force to further “punish” Hezbollah as if there had not been 
enough “punishment” via aerial slaughter. But a land invasion then gave 
Hezbollah the ability to make a proper victory, and we got Bint Jbeil. 
Nasrallah achieved hero status largely because of Israel’s blunder.



But unless Israel wants to reoccupy southern Lebanon, or unless the odd minor 
border incident counts for “resistance,” or unless Israel again felt the need 
to “punish” some minor border issue by land invasion rather than just by aerial 
massacre, then it is unclear what Hezbollah’s “steadfast” deterrent force means.



Or perhaps Egypt and Jordan are also “steadfast” by defending their own legal 
borders with Israel? Or do you expect even a scumbag like Sisi would simply 
allow Israel to re-occupy the Sinai (remember that Sadat was “steadfast” enough 
to make war to liberate the Sinai, and like Hezbollah in Lebanon, to get the 
whole Sinai back). Actually, the one and only non-steadfast, non-resistant 
regime in the region is of course the Damascus regime, which never even 
organised a symbolic action near the Golan border in 40 years.


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Re: [Marxism] Al-Akhbar editor at his most psychotic

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And as for this all "moral support" business, I can do no better than to
quote Sartre's preface to Fanon's *The Wretched of the Earth*, which I've
inexcusably waited this long to read:

"Sometimes the Left scolds them ... 'you're going too far; we won't support
you any more.' The natives don't give a damn about their support; for all
the good it does them they might as well stuff it up their backsides."

After the EU blacklisted Hezbollah as a "terrorist" organization in 2013,
there were a number of jokes in the region about its fighters running home
to their villages in fright and such.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Local-News/2013/Jul-24/224823-southerners-find-hilarityin-eu-move-to-blacklist-hezbollah.ashx

In the absence of some concrete mechanism for leftists in the West to turn
their moral support into actual material support, their online ruminations
will count for still less than that.

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[Marxism] Greece rejects 'absurd' Europe debt deal

2015-02-16 Thread Stuart Munckton via Marxism

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Talks between Eurozone finance ministers and Greek officials abrubtly broke
down on February 16 after Greece was offered a deal that it said was
“unacceptable”.

https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/58297

-- 
“Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is humanity’s
original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made,
through disobedience and through rebellion.” — Oscar Wilde, Soul of Man
Under Socialism

“The free market is perfectly natural... do you think I am some kind of
dummy?” — Jarvis Cocker
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Re: [Marxism] Al-Akhbar editor at his most psychotic

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On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 11:26 PM, Michael Karadjis via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

“Steadfastness against Israel.” Yes, that applies to anti-Assad Hamas. For
> Hezbollah it is just old stories. What does it mean? One and a half decades
> ago it liberated southern Lebanon and we all supported it. Yes there was a
> war in 2006 which boosted Hezbollah’s standing in the region, though what
> it achieved is debatable. What is for certain however is that the border
> has been absolutely quiet since 2006

Except, of course, when it hasn't been:

http://english.al-akhbar.com/node/23433

But that's not the silliest error here. Are you unaware that Hamas also
maintains and enforces ceasefires with Israel? And this involves not only
the al-Qassam Brigades standing down, similar to Hezbollah, but also
suppressing retaliatory fire from other resistance groups. None of this is
a secret.

The biggest difference between Hamas and Hezbollah in terms of their
military (not political) characteristics is that Hezbollah has actually
liberated land and defended it, rather than shifting it from one form of
occupation to another. (That other, most would now agree, is more malignant
on all counts.)

> I’ll come to the more interesting second half of your contribution later.
> I’m sure this will be enough to cause some fury for those stuck in some
> distant past era.

It will certainly amuse those of us with some grounding in reality.

-- 
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Re: [Marxism] Al-Akhbar editor at his most psychotic

2015-02-16 Thread A.R. G via Marxism

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@Michael

Yes I was referring to Hezb.

It's a valid point. I was perturbed to see that their support for the
resistance in Gaza was limited to a phone call from Hassan Nasrallah to
Hamas. In 2008, their excuse was that their hands were bound by the terms
of the April Agreement that Hezb signed with Israel in 1996. The agreement
was a massive victory in sending the message that if you resist, the enemy
may be forced to recognize your legitimacy.

But after their involvement in Syria, that doesn't make as much sense. How
can they talk about how their hands are bound by international agreements
if they are willing to risk their standing internationally, let alone in
Lebanon, to assist the Syrian regime? And if they're willing to fight in
Syria, why not liberate the Golan Heights?

Still, the reason I am hesitant to withdraw any support for them entirely
is because I do not, as you see it, think their liberation of Southern
Lebanon was simply a past victory. Hezbollah is the reason that Israel
cannot simply march into Lebanon as it pleases, and the last time they
tried, they got their asses handed to them by Hezbollah. That is important.
For the people that lived under 18 years of Israeli occupation, many of
whom were originally expelled by Israel from Palestine in the first place,
that is not a small victory and not something worth risking.

- Amith

On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 11:26 PM, Michael Karadjis 
wrote:

> -Original Message- From: A.R. G via Marxism
>
> ARG wrote:
>
> “I hear a lot of bashing on this forum against pro-Assad rhetoric. I am
> also not a fan of the Syrian regime or its foreign allies. Although in my
> eyes, Hezbollah continues to warrant some moral support, along with Hamas,
> for their steadfastness against Israel, I am very disappointed in their
> decision to assist the Syrian government in its war against Syrians. It
> showed they put loyalty to a regime ahead of their loyalty to larger,
> loftier principles.”
>
> Just to clarify, when you say “their” decision to assist Assad, you mean
> Hezbollah, not Hamas? Hamas of course split from Assad and quit Syria for
> Qatar precisely due to its support for the Syrian revolution.
>
> “Steadfastness against Israel.” Yes, that applies to anti-Assad Hamas. For
> Hezbollah it is just old stories. What does it mean? One and a half decades
> ago it liberated southern Lebanon and we all supported it. Yes there was a
> war in 2006 which boosted Hezbollah’s standing in the region, though what
> it achieved is debatable. What is for certain however is that the border
> has been absolutely quiet since 2006 (the only quieter border was the
> Syrian border with Israel-occupied Golan which Assad kept totally quiet,
> without even symbolic action, for 40 years).
>
> So does this old story of what Hezbollah did some decades ago weigh up
> next to what it has been doing for 3 years, of actively “assisting”, with
> an invasion force of thousands of troops, the most barbaric war being waged
> against a population anywhere on earth just now? Basically, what we have in
> Syria is as if the regime were carrying out within its own country the
> Zionists’ “Operation Cast Lead” in Gaza for 3 years straight.
>
> On the basis of weighing up the two – some old stories which long ago
> earned it the title “steadfast”, and the actual war against the Syrian
> people it is waging, Hezbollah deserves zero "moral support" in my view.
> Whatever it was, Hezbollah is now a Shiite sectarian death squad acting as
> a mercenary for a fascistic regime. Period.
>
> As an internationalist standing with the Syrian people, I think we need to
> be concrete. Just how would they, in practice, go about showing their moral
> support for those butchering them because the butchers had some old
> reputation for being "steadfast"? If that cannot be answered, then, sorry,
> same applies to me.
>
> I’ll come to the more interesting second half of your contribution later.
> I’m sure this will be enough to cause some fury for those stuck in some
> distant past era.
>
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Re: [Marxism] Al-Akhbar editor at his most psychotic

2015-02-16 Thread Michael Karadjis via Marxism


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-Original Message- 
From: A.R. G via Marxism


ARG wrote:

“I hear a lot of bashing on this forum against pro-Assad rhetoric. I am 
also not a fan of the Syrian regime or its foreign allies. Although in 
my eyes, Hezbollah continues to warrant some moral support, along with 
Hamas, for their steadfastness against Israel, I am very disappointed in 
their decision to assist the Syrian government in its war against 
Syrians. It showed they put loyalty to a regime ahead of their loyalty 
to larger, loftier principles.”


Just to clarify, when you say “their” decision to assist Assad, you mean 
Hezbollah, not Hamas? Hamas of course split from Assad and quit Syria 
for Qatar precisely due to its support for the Syrian revolution.


“Steadfastness against Israel.” Yes, that applies to anti-Assad Hamas. 
For Hezbollah it is just old stories. What does it mean? One and a half 
decades ago it liberated southern Lebanon and we all supported it. Yes 
there was a war in 2006 which boosted Hezbollah’s standing in the 
region, though what it achieved is debatable. What is for certain 
however is that the border has been absolutely quiet since 2006 (the 
only quieter border was the Syrian border with Israel-occupied Golan 
which Assad kept totally quiet, without even symbolic action, for 40 
years).


So does this old story of what Hezbollah did some decades ago weigh up 
next to what it has been doing for 3 years, of actively “assisting”, 
with an invasion force of thousands of troops, the most barbaric war 
being waged against a population anywhere on earth just now? Basically, 
what we have in Syria is as if the regime were carrying out within its 
own country the Zionists’ “Operation Cast Lead” in Gaza for 3 years 
straight.


On the basis of weighing up the two – some old stories which long ago 
earned it the title “steadfast”, and the actual war against the Syrian 
people it is waging, Hezbollah deserves zero "moral support" in my view. 
Whatever it was, Hezbollah is now a Shiite sectarian death squad acting 
as a mercenary for a fascistic regime. Period.


As an internationalist standing with the Syrian people, I think we need 
to be concrete. Just how would they, in practice, go about showing their 
moral support for those butchering them because the butchers had some 
old reputation for being "steadfast"? If that cannot be answered, then, 
sorry, same applies to me.


I’ll come to the more interesting second half of your contribution 
later. I’m sure this will be enough to cause some fury for those stuck 
in some distant past era. 


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[Marxism] Fwd: Erwin Baur interview, part two | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist


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In this segment, Erwin discusses:

–How the Detroit branch of the SWP recruited over a hundred Black 
workers, mostly from auto.


–The fight for a cost of living clause in the UAW contracts over the 
objection of the CP during WWII and Walter Reuther after the war.


–Why the charge that the Cochranites represented a layer of privileged 
auto workers who had lost faith in the proletarian revolution was false.


full: http://louisproyect.org/2015/02/17/erwin-baur-interview-part-two/
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Re: [Marxism] Concerning the debate on the German revolution of 1923


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On 2/16/15 8:11 PM, Juan Andres Gallardo via Marxism wrote:

However, his political intervention as a member of the executive committee
of the Third International and his conclusions on the events in Germany in
1923 show the real stature of Trotsky as a strategist


When I was in the SWP, we used the term "intervene" all the time. Like 
"we are going to intervene at the NOW convention with our campaign 
literature" or "the party will intervene in the Chicano movement to put 
forward the need for independent political action".


I never thought much about it at the time but it is useful to consider 
the dictionary definition of the word intervene:


-
Come between so as to prevent or alter a result or course of events.

"he acted outside his authority when he intervened in the dispute"

synonyms: intercede, involve oneself, get involved, interpose oneself, 
step in; mediate, referee; interfere, intrude, meddle, interrupt
(of an event or circumstance) occur as a delay or obstacle to something 
being done.

-

That sort of describes Trotsky's role in the 1923 German uprising:

When Brandler got to Moscow, the Bolshevik leaders cornered him and 
pressured him into accepting their call for a revolutionary showdown. 
What was key in their calculations was the likelihood that a bold action 
by the Communist Party would inevitably galvanize the rest of the 
working class into action. Once again, an element of Blanquism had 
colored the thinking of the Bolshevik leaders. They assumed that the 
scenario that had occurred in Russia in 1917 would also occur in 
Germany. This was an unwarranted assumption that was fed by a 
combination of romanticism and despair. Romanticism about the prospects 
of a quick victory and despair over the USSR's deepening isolation.


It was Zinoviev, the head of the Comintern, who was most self-deluded by 
the strength of the German Communist Party. He wrote in October 1923, 
"in the cities the workers are definitely numerically superior and" and 
"the forthcoming German revolution will be a proletarian class 
revolution. The 22 million German workers who make up its army represent 
the cornerstone of the international proletariat." What Zinoviev didn't 
take into account was that while the working class may be united 
socially and economically, it was not necessarily united politically. 
This turned out to be a fatal miscalculation. Brandler was so swept up 
by the enthusiasm of the Bolshevik leaders that he joined with them in 
pumping up the numbers. In the end he went so far as to claim that the 
Communists could count on the active support of 50,000 to 60,000 
proletarians in Saxony.


The Bolshevik leaders finally wore Brandler down and he agreed to their 
plans, which involved the following:


1) The Communists would join Zeigner's government in Saxony as coalition 
partners and arm the workers. The state of Saxony would then provide a 
base for a military and political offensive in the rest of Germany.


2) A date would be set for the seizure of power. Trotsky was the main 
advocate of setting a date. Over the objections of Brandler, Trotsky 
insisted that the date be November 9th. This was meant to coincide 
closely with the Bolshevik revolution of November 7th, 1917. Trotsky 
said, "Let us take our own October Revolution as an example...From the 
moment that the Bolsheviks were in the majority in the Petrograd 
Soviet...our party was faced with the question--not of the struggle for 
power in general, but of preparing for the seizure of power according to 
a definite plan, and at a fixed date. The chosen day, as it is well 
known, was the day upon which the All-Russian Congress of the Soviets 
was to convene..." Trotsky simply could not perceive that Russian 
revolutionaries setting a date for themselves is much different than 
setting a date for revolutionaries in another country. This distinction 
would have been lost on Trotsky who had gotten in the habit of laying 
down tactics for other Communist Parties in his capacity as Comintern 
official. He had the audacity to tell the French Communist Party, for 
example, what should go on the front page of their newspaper L'Humanite.


full: 
http://www.columbia.edu/~lnp3/mydocs/organization/comintern_and_germany.htm


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[Marxism] Sydney rallies to 'Let Grece Breathe'

2015-02-16 Thread Stuart Munckton via Marxism

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Several hundred people gathered at Sydney Town Hall o express their support
for the new SYRIZA-led Greek government and the right of the people of
Greece to end austerity and challenge the dictatorship of the European
banks and central authority.

https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/58295

-- 
“Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is humanity’s
original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made,
through disobedience and through rebellion.” — Oscar Wilde, Soul of Man
Under Socialism

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[Marxism] Concerning the debate on the German revolution of 1923

2015-02-16 Thread Juan Andres Gallardo via Marxism

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Regarding the discussion which appeared previously on the list, concerning
the German revolution of 1923 (a key revolutionary process of SXX,
systematically debased), I am sending an article written by Emilio
Albamonte and Matias Maiello “Trotsky and Gramsci: debates on strategy
concerning the revolution in the ‘West’"




*Trotsky, Gramsci and the strategy for the revolution in the West*

Left intellectuals in general, including those who recognise that Trotsky
made important contributions to Marxist theory, almost invariably resort to
the thesis proposed by Michael Burawoy that says: “Trotsky’s analyses were
time and again shipwrecked on the rock of the Western proletariat. It would
be another Marxist, Antonio Gramsci, who would carry Marxism forward,
incorporating Trotsky’s understandings into a broader interpretation that
would try to come to terms with the failure of the revolution in the West.”
 [1

] [2

]

The Italian revolutionary developed as one of the central tenets of his
thought the question of the conditions for revolution in the West,
counter-posing the ‘war of position’ with the ‘war of manoeuvre’ in order
to explain the failure of the first revolutionary wave of the 20th Century
in Europe and the steps necessary in order to confront fascism.

Gramsci and Trotsky’s concepts have some points in common, but also many
differences of a fundamental nature. As we intend to demonstrate in this
article, it would be the founder of the Red Army who would develop a
comprehensive outlook on the problems of strategy in the Western countries.


The starting point for this comparison is necessarily located in the German
revolution of 1923, a true turning point for revolution in the West, which
was at the same time the first great defeat for the Communist International
(CI). It marked the beginning of a kind of ‘ebb’ in strategic thinking in
the ranks of the CI and the gradual abandonment of the main conclusions of
its first four congresses.

The first steps in this revision took place during the Fifth Congress of
the CI over the tactics of the united front and the ‘workers’ government’. [
3

]This was a consequence of denying the defeat in Germany and refusing to
draw its strategic lessons.

Gramsci’s underestimation of these polemics and of the lessons of the 1923
German revolution has not been analysed by any of his principal
interpreters. However, these debates are crucial for understanding the
fundamental problems of revolution in the West in the inter-war period.
This gap in the thinking of the Italian revolutionary could be considered
to be the most important source of ambiguity in his strategic view,
regarding his understanding of the united front, the concept of ‘war of
position’ and many of his formulations of his *Prison Notebooks*.

None of the Trotskyist currents that emerged after the split in the Fourth
International in 1953 has revisited this debate in depth in order to
understand Trotsky’s revolutionary legacy. Rather, there were those who
opportunistically tried to use his defence of the workers’ government
tactic in 1923 to justify subordination to Stalinist and petit-bourgeois
leaderships, and to extend support to, and even enter into, bourgeois
governments. On the other hand, there were sectarians who interpreted
Trotsky’s political position in those years as an opportunist error. Many,
like Isaac Deutscher, did not give great importance to this part of
Trotsky’s life because they thought that he had exaggerated the
revolutionary possibilities in Germany.
However, his political intervention as a member of the executive committee
of the Third International and his conclusions on the events in Germany in
1923 show the real stature of Trotsky as a strategist – matching his
intervention in Petrograd six years earlier – and his ability to develop
the concept of the united front and the tactic of the workers’ government,
starting from the establishment of a complex relationship between attack
and defence drawn from Carl Clausewitz’s best developments. Overall, this
would become a key component of his political work and his thoughts on
strategy, without which it would be impossible to understand his
revolutionary legacy…


READ MORE:
http://www.ft-ci.org/Trotsky-and-Gramsci-debates-on-strategy-concerning-the-revolution-in-the-West?lang=en

Re: [Marxism] Meeting Over Greek Debt Ends in Acrimony

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Greece Leads with Keynes, not Marx
by Steve Weissman,
Reader Supported News
Feb. 16, 2015
http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/28622-focus-greece-leads-with-keynes-not-marx
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Re: [Marxism] Al-Akhbar editor at his most psychotic

2015-02-16 Thread Andrew Pollack via Marxism

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glad you're doing that research, Louis. Also use the search or index fields
at http://www.europe-solidaire.org/ , merip.org and
internationalviewpoint.org

On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 6:59 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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>
> On 2/16/15 6:44 PM, A.R. G via Marxism wrote:
>
>> But what is the alternative narrative. How do we analyze what is currently
>> taking place in Syria, especially amid such fractured resistance, the
>> corruption of so many of the Syrian rebels, the rise of ISIS, so on and so
>> forth?
>>
>> Basically, when I look at Syria...what the hell am I looking at, exactly?
>>
>> These are honest questions, I'm not trying to provoke.
>>
>
> I don't think these sorts of questions can be answered in email. That is
> one of the reasons I became so irate with Jim Creegan over assessing Syriza
> in a couple of hundred words on a listserv. It is simply impossible to give
> them the attention they deserve.
>
> I strongly suspect that Syria is lost, not so much to Baathist rule but to
> chaos and nihilism despite the best efforts of both the Kurds in Kobane and
> the brigades of the FSA that have somehow remained functional.
>
> You can even see Gilbert Achcar expressing himself in barely concealed
> despair:
>
> http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/article6716540.ece
>
> "The lack of progressive leadership is the key reason why various forces
> of Islamic fundamentalism are able to cash in on the popular anger in the
> region. In order to understand this historically, one just needs to look
> back at the surge of fundamentalism that started in 1970s. In most
> Muslim-majority countries, Islamic fundamentalism had been marginalised in
> the 1960s when left-wing nationalism was on the rise, as represented above
> all by Nasser. It is only when this went into decline starting from the
> 1970s that we saw the beginning of the rise of Islamic fundamentalist
> forces."
>
> In my view the most important thing right now is for Marxists to develop
> an analysis of why things turned out so badly in Libya and now in Syria.
> This means relegating the usual geopolitical chess game bullshit to the
> sidelines more than ever.
>
> I am desperately trying to find the time to analyze what happened in Libya
> based on NY Times articles written from the time of Qaddafi's killing.
> Plus, the new book on Libya that was reviewed here:
>
> http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2015/feb/19/libya-against-itself/
>
> "Libya in its current shape is a recent, fragile construct, originating in
> Italy’s invasion of 1911, exactly a century before the Arab Spring. It has
> been fracturing and reuniting ever since. Unable to overcome the Arab
> Bedouin tribes in the east, Italy’s first wave of colonizers sanctioned the
> creation of an autonomous Emirate of Cyrenaica. In 1929 Benito Mussolini
> tried again, and succeeded by imprisoning tens of thousands of Bedouins in
> concentration camps, where half of them died. After World War II, the
> British backed the revival of the Cyrenaican emirate replete with a king,
> Idris I. But the discovery of oil, whose fields and pipelines straddled
> boundaries, drew Libya’s disparate provinces into ever closer union. In
> 1951, Cyrenaica established a federation with the Fezzan region in the
> south, hitherto under French hegemony, and Tripolitania in the northwest,
> also under the British. King Idris added a green and a red band below and
> above his black flag with a white crescent. And in 1963, under King Idris,
> Libya abolished the federation and declared itself a single unified state."
>
> This is the sort of material we should be engaged with, not the same
> stupid talking points about Africom over and over and over.
>
>
>
> _
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Re: [Marxism] Al-Akhbar editor at his most psychotic


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On 2/16/15 6:44 PM, A.R. G via Marxism wrote:

But what is the alternative narrative. How do we analyze what is currently
taking place in Syria, especially amid such fractured resistance, the
corruption of so many of the Syrian rebels, the rise of ISIS, so on and so
forth?

Basically, when I look at Syria...what the hell am I looking at, exactly?

These are honest questions, I'm not trying to provoke.


I don't think these sorts of questions can be answered in email. That is 
one of the reasons I became so irate with Jim Creegan over assessing 
Syriza in a couple of hundred words on a listserv. It is simply 
impossible to give them the attention they deserve.


I strongly suspect that Syria is lost, not so much to Baathist rule but 
to chaos and nihilism despite the best efforts of both the Kurds in 
Kobane and the brigades of the FSA that have somehow remained functional.


You can even see Gilbert Achcar expressing himself in barely concealed 
despair:


http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/article6716540.ece

"The lack of progressive leadership is the key reason why various forces 
of Islamic fundamentalism are able to cash in on the popular anger in 
the region. In order to understand this historically, one just needs to 
look back at the surge of fundamentalism that started in 1970s. In most 
Muslim-majority countries, Islamic fundamentalism had been marginalised 
in the 1960s when left-wing nationalism was on the rise, as represented 
above all by Nasser. It is only when this went into decline starting 
from the 1970s that we saw the beginning of the rise of Islamic 
fundamentalist forces."


In my view the most important thing right now is for Marxists to develop 
an analysis of why things turned out so badly in Libya and now in Syria. 
This means relegating the usual geopolitical chess game bullshit to the 
sidelines more than ever.


I am desperately trying to find the time to analyze what happened in 
Libya based on NY Times articles written from the time of Qaddafi's 
killing. Plus, the new book on Libya that was reviewed here:


http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2015/feb/19/libya-against-itself/

"Libya in its current shape is a recent, fragile construct, originating 
in Italy’s invasion of 1911, exactly a century before the Arab Spring. 
It has been fracturing and reuniting ever since. Unable to overcome the 
Arab Bedouin tribes in the east, Italy’s first wave of colonizers 
sanctioned the creation of an autonomous Emirate of Cyrenaica. In 1929 
Benito Mussolini tried again, and succeeded by imprisoning tens of 
thousands of Bedouins in concentration camps, where half of them died. 
After World War II, the British backed the revival of the Cyrenaican 
emirate replete with a king, Idris I. But the discovery of oil, whose 
fields and pipelines straddled boundaries, drew Libya’s disparate 
provinces into ever closer union. In 1951, Cyrenaica established a 
federation with the Fezzan region in the south, hitherto under French 
hegemony, and Tripolitania in the northwest, also under the British. 
King Idris added a green and a red band below and above his black flag 
with a white crescent. And in 1963, under King Idris, Libya abolished 
the federation and declared itself a single unified state."


This is the sort of material we should be engaged with, not the same 
stupid talking points about Africom over and over and over.




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Re: [Marxism] Al-Akhbar editor at his most psychotic

2015-02-16 Thread A.R. G via Marxism

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Hi,

I hear a lot of bashing on this forum against pro-Assad rhetoric. I am also
not a fan of the Syrian regime or its foreign allies. Although in my eyes,
Hezbollah continues to warrant some moral support, along with Hamas, for
their steadfastness against Israel, I am very disappointed in their
decision to assist the Syrian government in its war against Syrians. It
showed they put loyalty to a regime ahead of their loyalty to larger,
loftier principles.

But what is the alternative narrative here? Al-Akhbar is pitching the same
"It's Syria and the "Resistance" against the foreign plotters operating
with the support of the GCC, Israel, Jordan, America, ISIS, etc" narrative.
It's not a very convincing narrative unless you are a total Syrian-regime
apologist.

But what is the alternative narrative. How do we analyze what is currently
taking place in Syria, especially amid such fractured resistance, the
corruption of so many of the Syrian rebels, the rise of ISIS, so on and so
forth?

Basically, when I look at Syria...what the hell am I looking at, exactly?

These are honest questions, I'm not trying to provoke.

- Amith

On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 6:32 PM, Andrew Pollack via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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>
>
> http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/battle-south-syria-now-country-all-resistance-parties
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Re: [Marxism] Glenn Greenwald: Hailed as a Model for Successful Intervention, Libya Proves to be the Exact Opposite

2015-02-16 Thread A.R. G via Marxism

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Clay,

I'm not following your argument. What exactly are you saying about GG? Are
you suggesting he is wrong to oppose the NATO bombardment and
destabilization of Libya? What does arms interdiction have to do with it?



- Amith

On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 3:50 PM, Joseph Catron via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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>
> On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 3:19 PM, Clay Claiborne 
> wrote:
>
> Hailed as a Model Journalist Glenn Greenwald Proves to be the Exact
> > Opposite ...
> >
> > They would preferred it if Libya was still suffering as Syria is today
> > with a death toll many times the 30,000 it took to defeat Qaddafi
> >
> Does non-model journalist Glenn Greenwald also use statistics that were
> publicly discredited years ago?
>
>
>
> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/08/libyan-revolution-casualties-lower-expected-government
>
> I understand why NATO supporters exaggerate the toll of the 2011 civil war:
> to obscure their own role in prolonging the suffering of Syrians, exactly
> as they shamelessly accuse anti-interventionists of having wished to do.
>
> It should prove interesting, in a darkly tragic way, to see if "left"
> warhawks will also champion the new NATO intervention now advocated by at
> least one member state, which we can only call a direct product of their
> first.
>
>
> http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/libya-faces-isis-crisis-italy-wants-nato-intervention-n306896
>
> --
> "Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen
> lytlað."
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: The View from the Grassroots: An Interview with Giorgos Gogos on SYRIZA’s Election Victory in Greece

2015-02-16 Thread Andrew Pollack via Marxism

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but it was posted online for the first time today
thanks Louis

On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 6:20 PM, Dayne Goodwin via Marxism <
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>
> thanks Louis, the actual interview was a few weeks ago (Jan. 31) but
> it is a must read, excellent!
> seems to provide informed insight; impressive interviewee, good interviewer
>
> On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 3:08 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism
>  wrote:
> >
> > The View from the Grassroots: An Interview with Giorgos Gogos on SYRIZA’s
> > Election Victory in Greece
>
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[Marxism] Al-Akhbar editor at his most psychotic

2015-02-16 Thread Andrew Pollack via Marxism

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http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/battle-south-syria-now-country-all-resistance-parties
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: The View from the Grassroots: An Interview with Giorgos Gogos on SYRIZA’s Election Victory in Greece

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thanks Louis, the actual interview was a few weeks ago (Jan. 31) but
it is a must read, excellent!
seems to provide informed insight; impressive interviewee, good interviewer

On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 3:08 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism
 wrote:
>
> The View from the Grassroots: An Interview with Giorgos Gogos on SYRIZA’s
> Election Victory in Greece

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[Marxism] Solidarity with Greece - support the international trade union appeal

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-- Forwarded message --
From: LabourStart 
Subject: Solidarity with Greece - support the international trade union appeal

An extraordinary appeal initiated by German trade unionists deserves
our support.

Leading figures in the German trade union movement have issued an
appeal for solidarity with Greece following the resounding election
victory of the leftist Syriza party.

It's an extraordinary statement and trade unionists around the world
are being asked to add their names to those of the German trade union
leaders.  Thousands have already done so.

Please read the appeal and add your name here:

http://www.labourstart.org/go/greece
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[Marxism] Fwd: The View from the Grassroots: An Interview with Giorgos Gogos on SYRIZA’s Election Victory in Greece


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The View from the Grassroots: An Interview with Giorgos Gogos on 
SYRIZA’s Election Victory in Greece


Giorgos Gogos and Katy Fox-Hodess February 16, 2015
Print Friendly
IMG_7903

Giorgos Gogos is a Greek dockworker and union leader from the Port of 
Piraeus. A member of SYRIZA, he is active at the regional and union 
levels of the party and is engaged in local organizing efforts in 
Piraeus, the large urban industrial area surrounding the port 
outside of Athens. Following the collapse of the Greek economy, the 
memorandum with the troika included a provision to sell off 
profitable state-owned companies to pay back loans to foreign 
lenders, resulting in the partial privatization of the Port of 
Piraeus, Greece’s largest port, where Chinese state-owned shipping 
company COSCO now holds the concession for two container 
terminals. Since that time, dockworkers have waged a militant and 
sustained struggle, with strong local alliances in Piraeus and 
international support from dockworkers around Europe, to return the 
port to full public ownership and improve the poor working 
conditions at the privatized COSCO terminals. Katy Fox-Hodess is a 
doctoral student in Sociology at the University of California, 
Berkeley writing her dissertation on international solidarity 
among dockworkers’ unions. She spoke with Gogos on January 31 
following the recent election in Greece.


Katy Fox-Hodess: How have people in your community reacted to the 
election results?


Giorgos Gogos: Generally, it was accepted with great enthusiasm by 
many people, not only by those who voted for SYRIZA but other people 
who traditionally belonged to other parties and couldn’t escape from 
those commitments. Everybody I think was saying, ok, let’s see what 
this new route is like and we have to try, somehow, a new way of 
approaching the whole problem.


full: 
https://viewpointmag.com/2015/02/16/the-view-from-the-grassroots-an-interview-with-giorgos-gogos-on-syrizas-election-victory-in-greece/

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[Marxism] Science, capitalism, human liberation

2015-02-16 Thread Philip Ferguson via Marxism

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Is science the liberator of humanity, or the tool of despots? Is the
attempt to control the laws of nature the handmaiden of progress, or the
suicidal act of ignorant fools? These are the kind of issues being raised
today, as the world’s pressing demographic and environmental problems make
more people ask whether progress is such a good thing. What answers can we
come up with?

Marxists support the unlimited growth of scientific knowledge and capacity.
The dangers posed by the application of modern science arise from the
nature of the societies in which it takes place not from the science
itself. The system which dominates the globe – capitalism – is at best
stagnant. Without the constraints this system imposes, the potential exists
for fundamental scientific advances to be made and used for the good of us
all. In opposition to the Marxist view, however, there is a growing belief
among radical thinkers that humanity is inevitably threatened by
technological and scientific advance. . .

full at:
https://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/11/18/science-capitalism-and-human-liberation/
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Re: [Marxism] Meeting Over Greek Debt Ends in Acrimony

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Greek debt talks with euro zone break down, way forward uncertain
http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/02/16/eurozone-greece-idINKBN0LK04J20150216

Euro falls as Greece talks collapse
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/f593f826-b589-11e4-b186-00144feab7de.html

‘Dying out of poverty!’ Thousands gather for anti-austerity rally in
Athens (VIDEO)
http://rt.com/news/232587-anti-austerity-protests-athens

On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 1:36 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism
 wrote:
>
> NY Times, Feb. 16 2015
> Meeting Over Greek Debt Ends in Acrimony
> By JAMES KANTER
>  . . .


Meeting Over Greek Debt Ends in Acrimony
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/17/business/international/greece-debt-eurozone-finance-ministers-meeting.html

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Re: [Marxism] Glenn Greenwald: Hailed as a Model for Successful Intervention, Libya Proves to be the Exact Opposite

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On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 3:19 PM, Clay Claiborne  wrote:

Hailed as a Model Journalist Glenn Greenwald Proves to be the Exact
> Opposite ...
>
> They would preferred it if Libya was still suffering as Syria is today
> with a death toll many times the 30,000 it took to defeat Qaddafi
>
Does non-model journalist Glenn Greenwald also use statistics that were
publicly discredited years ago?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/08/libyan-revolution-casualties-lower-expected-government

I understand why NATO supporters exaggerate the toll of the 2011 civil war:
to obscure their own role in prolonging the suffering of Syrians, exactly
as they shamelessly accuse anti-interventionists of having wished to do.

It should prove interesting, in a darkly tragic way, to see if "left"
warhawks will also champion the new NATO intervention now advocated by at
least one member state, which we can only call a direct product of their
first.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/libya-faces-isis-crisis-italy-wants-nato-intervention-n306896

-- 
"Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen
lytlað."
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[Marxism] If Greece can close down its refugee detention centres, why can't Australia?

2015-02-16 Thread John Passant via Marxism


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If Greece can close down its refugee detention centres, why can't Australia?

SYRIZA, the new radical left wing government in Greece 'pledged on 
Saturday to close down detention centres for [refugees] that have long 
been criticised by rights groups as inhumane.' If Greece can do it, why 
not Australia? Ah, unlike Greece, we don't have a radical left wing 
party here, built on strikes and demonstrations against austerity. Maybe 
it is time we built one and built strikes and demonstrations against 
Abbott's austerity?


http://enpassant.com.au/2015/02/17/if-greece-can-close-down-its-refugee-detention-centres-why-cant-australia/

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[Marxism] Meeting Over Greek Debt Ends in Acrimony


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NY Times, Feb. 16 2015
Meeting Over Greek Debt Ends in Acrimony
By JAMES KANTER

BRUSSELS — A meeting of eurozone finance ministers on Greece's debt 
crisis broke up in acrimony Monday evening, further dimming hopes of a 
speedy resolution to problems that could result in the new Greek 
government's soon running out of money.


In an email to reporters just before the meeting ended, a Greek official 
dismissed the latest proposal by Greece’s European creditors as 
“unreasonable and unacceptable.” The proposal had called for Greece to 
abide by the current terms of its bailout program.


Greek officials have been seeking to revise or scrap the current bailout 
plan to allow them more flexibility in their budgeting plans.


The insistence on holding Greece to its prior commitments showed the 
eurozone ministers were “wasting their time,” wrote the official, who 
under government policy could not be identified by name.


The meeting broke up a short time later, with Greek representatives and 
eurozone officials heading off to hold dueling news conferences.


Jeroen Dijsselbloem, the Dutch finance minister and head of the 
Eurogroup of eurozone finance officials, said the group thought Greece 
should seek an extension of its current bailout program. Even if Greece 
could persuade its European neighbors to agree to a new program, it 
would not be strikingly different from the current one and would hold 
Athens accountable to budget targets.


“The rules and regulations talk about strict conditionalities,” Mr. 
Dijsselbloem told reporters. “It would still be about fiscal 
sustainability.”


He said Greece and its eurozone partners would need more time to reach a 
deal.


The day had not started well. Greek and German officials traded public 
barbs, and nervous investors sold off Greek stocks and bonds.


The European part of Greece’s bailout program is to expire at the end of 
the month, raising the risk that the country could default on loan 
repayments and become the first member of the euro currency union to 
leave it. An emergency meeting of the same group of finance ministers 
from the 19-country currency union ended in failure last week.


The urgency of Greece’s financial situation was underscored on Monday by 
a report from JPMorgan Chase indicating the Greek banks were losing 
deposits at the rate of 2 billion euros a week. If that pace continues 
for the next 14 weeks, the banks will not have enough reserves on hand 
to issue new loans, according to the report.


None of the ministers arriving at the meeting were optimistic about 
reaching a definitive agreement during the session later on Monday. Some 
even spoke about the possibility of holding a third meeting on Friday.


The German finance minister, Wolfgang Schäuble, told German radio on 
Monday that he was “very skeptical” about the chances of a deal later in 
the day. He also accused the anti-austerity Greek government of behaving 
“pretty irresponsibly.” Mr. Schäuble said the Greek prime minister, 
Alexis Tsipras, was “insulting those who have helped Greece in the past 
few years.”


Those comments helped prompt a decline in Greece’s benchmark stock 
index, which fell nearly 4 percent on the day. Three-year Greek 
government notes fell for the first time in three days.


Over the weekend, Greek officials reiterated their determination to 
revise or scrap the bailout plan that is at the center of the standoff 
between Greece and its European creditors. A government spokesman on 
Monday responded to the German finance minister’s remarks.


“I could also say that Germany’s behavior is irresponsible, but I don’t 
want to trade characterizations,” the spokesman, Gavriil Sakellaridis, 
told a Greek radio station. “Who is irresponsible and who is responsible 
is subjective.”


Athens wants “a solution on the political level,” Mr. Sakellaridis said. 
“We don’t see this like a game of poker. Neither are we bluffing.”


Writing in The New York Times on Monday, Yanis Varoufakis, the Greek 
finance minister, denied he was following “some radical-left agenda,” 
and he called for financing that would allow for a “few months of 
financial stability.”


The German news media reported that Mr. Varoufakis was demanding a new 
agreement with European lenders that would substantially reduce the size 
of his country’s debt.


Mr. Varoufakis and Mr. Dijsselbloem had entered the conference center on 
Monday without speaking to reporters. But behind the scenes, efforts had 
been underway to seek a compromise.


Technical staff members from Greece and its international creditors met 
on Friday and Saturday in Brussels to seek common ground between the

Re: [Marxism] Glenn Greenwald: Hailed as a Model for Successful Intervention, Libya Proves to be the Exact Opposite

2015-02-16 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism

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Just back from a Rackspace team meeting in Austin, this is a preview of
what I am working on on my day off:

Hailed as a Model Journalist Glenn Greenwald Proves to be the Exact Opposite

Before Glenn Greenwald ever join and quit The Guardian, it reported in its
summary of NATO Operation Unified Protector, 31 October 2011, that the
combined military forces from the US, UK, France, Italy, Canada, Sweden,
Spain, Turkey, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Norway, Netherlands, Jordan, UAE,
Qatar, Romania, Bulgaria and Greece had hit over 3,000 targets in Libya,
including 304 ammunition dumps, 100 tanks and 55 rocket launchers. In
addition:

Nato ships have also stopped over 3,000 vessels and boarded another 250
while enforcing the arms embargo.

I assume Greenwald and company also opposed this rarely mentioned arms
interdiction role NATO played in overthrowing Qaddafi. In their not so
humble opinion, the *"Hands Off Libya"* crowd would have preferred it if
Qaddafi's still active air force was able to be freely resupplied with
bombs and spare parts from whoever was willing to trade Libyan oil for
Libyan blood and make the arms dealers' profit using Putin's line-of-credit
when the cash ran out. They would preferred it if Libya was still suffering
as Syria is today with a death toll many times the 30,000 it took to defeat
Qaddafi, because, make no mistake about it, the Libyan people were no more
willing continue kneeling before a fascist dictator than the Syrian people
are. So the alternative to NATO intervention in Libya was not the peaceful
and *"progressive"* Libya of some people's fantasies. It is Syria today.


We can debate whether more than 30,000 Libyans would have met with a
violent end had that world intervention not taken place, just as we can
debate whether 200,000 Syrians are really dead. For some people it doesn't
matter because it is not about them. Its about us. Its about the western
world, and its about scoring points for our side in political debates that
sees *"those"* countries as stages for our political dramas and *"those"*
people as the replaceable *"extras"* that every *"shoot"* requires. Doing
that with present-day Libya means replacing the real history of recent
events with Western Left caricatures and fantasies. This is far from the
field of journalism but it is exactly were Glenn Greenwald has wandred in
his latest rant against *"our own imperialist"* using the Libya playhouse:


Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust 
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 

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[Marxism] Fwd: Greece's Tsipras has to watch left flank as well as EU | Reuters


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Some of what Tsipras is facing at home was on display in an Athens News 
Agency interview on Sunday with Energy Minister Panagiotis Lafazanis, 
one of Syriza's far-left firebrands.


"If our so-called partners insist on the extension, in one form or 
another, of the existing bailout, in other words the sinful bailout, 
then there will not be a deal," he said.


This was strong, uncompromising talk given that Tsipras and his finance 
minister, Yanis Varoufakis, have been struggling to find a formula with 
the euro zone to keep Greece afloat - essentially an extension that is 
not called an extension.


Labour market deregulation, changes to the pension system and 
privatisation - all areas where Tsipras may need some leeway in his 
negotiations - are anathema to Syriza's left-wing.


full: 
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/16/eurozone-greece-politics-idUSL5N0VP0RO20150216

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[Marxism] Regarding the Left

2015-02-16 Thread Manuel Barrera via Marxism

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I just replied to Louis' post on the Overview of Ukraine that I started a while 
ago and it lay in my drafts until the recent inane interchange with Jacobs and 
Louis on the Donetsk. It didn't seem to contribute much, but then neither it 
seems do others more "analytical". 

I see the problems indicated by these unremarkable interchanges as an important 
one given the recent increased interest in left unity stirred by the victory of 
Syriza and the potential of Spain's Podemos as well the rather truncated 
promise of Sawant's in Seattle. 

It is not the politics of the issues surrounding the Ukraine, Syriza in Greece, 
Syria democratic revolution or of Cuba's need to make alliances. Those are 
really straightforward if one is schooled in revolutionary politics. It is the 
nature, quantity, and narrowness of the discourse that we Marxists seem always 
to engage. Aside from some in other countries, there are insignificantly few 
people of color or women that engage these discussions. Perhaps because the 
White among us like to avoid the problem by dismissing  such issues as "mere 
'identity politics'" or perhaps it is really because people of color are just 
not viewed as part of the "left"?  .  .  . Even being forced to make such a 
statement underlies how insanely dismal the situation is.

The Marxist left had better start to find a way to unify not among the 
sectarian "Whiteists" but engaging the veritabl left that is out there emerging 
on the streets of Ferguson, the social media online, and in the communities as 
well as blogsphere of feminist, nationalist,  and participants in emerging 
workers movements in the "logistics" sectors. In truth, these are the 
Marxists--of reality--that ought to be engaged these kinds of discourse.
   
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Re: [Marxism] Overview of the war in Ukraine, Feb 6, 2015

2015-02-16 Thread Manuel Barrera via Marxism

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Louis: " The entire international left except me, Andy Pollack, Zbigniew 
Kowalewski and Gabriel Levy support the separatists. Maybe I forgot one or two 
others."Clay: " You can add me to that list. "

The trouble here is not being in a minority, but the arrogance to think that it 
is only a few "others" in opposition to the rightist-Putin movement in the 
Ukraine or  Syria or Libya. Thinking in terms that "only" those who write 
something have a clear understanding of this issue is actually one of the 
greater problems of the "left"; the idea that only White radicals who always 
seem to take up all the oxygen are the who "really understand" and "everybody 
else" either doesn't get it or isn't as committed. It is a part of the problem 
with the Left discourse. 

I don't write extensively on these issues not because I do not share opinions 
or am somehow unclear on issues but simply because it is disappointing to read 
how purported revolutionaries cannot see a revolutionary process, for example 
in Syria, or a reactionary one such as in the Ukraine by Putin-supported 
rightists all because of the excuse of "geo-politics". Alike the almost 
insulting temptation to argue with David Walters on whether nuclear power is 
insanity to support, there is no real necessity to argue with ossified 
almost-Marxists who represent little except themselves. 

I prefer this list because of the rich analyses that do come forward among the 
chafe. 
  
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Re: [Marxism] Interview with Russian Deputy Defence Minister

2015-02-16 Thread Manuel Barrera via Marxism

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" In my opinion, Venezuela, Nicaragua, & Cuba have every right to seek support 
where they can."
ken h

You know, it says absolutely nothing to say Cuba, or the U.S. for that matter, 
has a "right to seek support where they can". The real issue is where such 
support leads, how it is to be bought, who will pay the price, and what can be 
gained.

This is the problem with ideology, that one seeks to analyze outcomes without 
them actually being first observed. Is imperialism blocking Cuba from seeking 
support with anybody? Yes, in the form of U.S. imperialism, No in the form of 
Putin's Russian imperialism. Faith, in this case, faith that Cuba will do the 
right thing with this support, is a poor substitute material action and 
material action is concrete. For example, Russian imperialists are supporting 
Al Assad in Syria as are China's. We already know Cuba's atrocious stands on 
the "geopolitical chessboard".  One has to temper their defense of the Cuban 
Revolution not because of principle but because that principle has been frayed 
albeit comprehensible given the "world situation". That fraying of principle 
remains and cannot be altered by wishful thinking. 

How is such observation difficult for revolutionaries?
  
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[Marxism] Cory Robin - The real Mad Men of History - Assad, McNamara, Bundy

2015-02-16 Thread Dennis Brasky via Marxism

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http://coreyrobin.com/2015/02/16/the-real-mad-men-of-history
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[Marxism] Greek socialist highlights Comintern’s contribution to ‘left government’ project | John Riddell


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https://johnriddell.wordpress.com/2015/02/16/greek-socialist-highlights-cominterns-contribution-to-left-government-project/
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[Marxism] Fwd: Terror of terror: Syria pays the price | insufficient respect


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http://insufficientrespect.blogspot.com/2015/01/terror-of-terror-syria-pays-price.html
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[Marxism] Interview with Russian Deputy Defence Minister

2015-02-16 Thread Ken Hiebert via Marxism

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Increased co-operation between Russia, Venezuela, Nicaragua, & Cuba.
In my opinion, Venezuela, Nicaragua, & Cuba have every right to seek support 
where they can.
ken h

http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=109368
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[Marxism] Fwd: Podemos Leader Iglesias at CUNY Graduate Center This Tuesday


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 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Podemos Leader Iglesias at CUNY Graduate Center This Tuesday
Date:   Mon, 16 Feb 2015 11:06:37 -0500
From:   Left Forum 
Reply-To:   Left Forum 
To: Louis Proyect 




*left forum *

For immediate release

Monday, Feb. 16, 2015

Contact: Ignacio Berdugo (PODEMOS)


  *Phone: 347-363-8659
  Email: podemospresse...@gmail.com 
  Contact: Left Forum Media Team
  Phone: 212-817-2002
  Email: me...@leftforum.org *

Podemos Leader Iglesias to Speak at CUNY Graduate Center thisTuesday

Pablo Iglesias, General Secretary and leader of Spain’s PODEMOS Party
will be introduced by Amy Goodman (Democracy Now)*Tuesday, February
17 from 1:00pm - 3:00pm* at Proshansky Auditorium, at the Graduate
Center of the City University of New York, 365 5th Avenue. This is a
Left Forum co-organized event.

Within just one year of its existence, PODEMOS has shaken politics in
Spain, becoming an unprecedented political phenomenon. In just four
months, PODEMOS grew spectacularly, achieving 1.2 million votes in the
May 25 European Elections, and gaining five seats in the European
Parliament.

Since then, PODEMOS has increased its presence: Opinion polls in the
upcoming November elections, indicate PODEMOS would be the second most
voted for political option. On January 31st, a "March for Change"
organized by PODEMOS gathered hundreds of thousands in Madrid.

Why and how did PODEMOS emerge? From where has it come? What are the
reasons for their spectacular growth? What are their methods and their
political alignments? How does PODEMOS relate to existing political
forces and social movements? What are the main proposals of their
political program? These and related issues will be addressed at this event.

Left Forum, in collaboration with the Center for Place, Culture and
Politics (Graduate Center, CUNY) is proud to present this special event,
with the support of Advanced Research Collaborative (Graduate Center,
CUNY), Left East Journal, Urban Democracy Lab (NYU), Verso Books, and
Situations.


  */*All media (and press) must register. To do so, email:
  me...@leftforum.org /*

Visit the Left Forum Website Here


Public Facebook Event:Here


Left Forum

365 Fifth Avenue
CUNY Graduate Center, c/o Sociology Dept.
New York, NY 10016
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[Marxism] logistics

2015-02-16 Thread DW via Marxism

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Andy is correct about the importance of this article. It's a great use of a
Marxist method to analyses parts of the capitalist economy as it has
evolved over the recent decades. It also serves as a 'progressive' basis
for what could be done under socialism and a planned economy.

To respond to Andy's question. Even under Imperialism, the 'fusion of
finance and manufacturing capital with finance dominant' the actual
production of surplus value is still at the point of production regardless
of what sector of Imperialism controls it or is dominant over it. Just
something to keep in mind that in Allan's article, his description is
really about the massive centralization of the circulation of commodities,
efficiencies installed, profitability, etc etc...but if you look at the
role that rail play in over 100 years ago, it is really hard to see the
difference (in fact rail still is very important, Allan's article focuses
on air freight, but most freight is still handled by ships and railroads,
not by air).

Air cargo is an expanding industry, and not only for amazon and the final
retail delivery of products (which the article focuses on) but also on
secondary processed materials like machine tools, specialized components
for machinery, etc.

Take Otis Elevator. It used to be that Otis would ship an elevator or set
of elevators to a construction site in an office building by rail and truck
or just truck. Now, with just-on-time delivery for construction sites with
limited laydown space for building materials, they will ship it by plane on
the evening before it needs to be installed. The cost for shipping by air
is huge but can save because the contractors don't mind paying for it if it
means they don't have to hold onto it in a warehouse which costs money. So
air freight is increasing for even non-retail commodity distribution.
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[Marxism] [WARNING: ATTACHMENT UNSCANNED]Leading figures in the German trade union movement have issued an appeal for solidarity with Greece

2015-02-16 Thread Ken Hiebert via Marxism

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An extraordinary appeal initiated by German trade unionists deserves our 
support.
  
View this email in your browser 
 

Leading figures in the German trade union movement have issued an appeal for 
solidarity with Greece following the resounding election victory of the leftist 
Syriza party.

It's an extraordinary statement and trade unionists around the world are being 
asked to add their names to those of the German trade union leaders.  Thousands 
have already done so.

Please read the appeal and add your name here:

http://www.labourstart.org/go/greece

Please share this message with your friends, family and fellow union members.

Thank you!


Eric Lee 
Copyright © 2015 LabourStart, All rights reserved. 

Our mailing address is: 
LabourStart
27 Muswell Hill Place
London, England N10 3RP 
United Kingdom
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Re: [Marxism] Creating a Crisis--It's NATO's Way

2015-02-16 Thread Ron Jacobs via Marxism

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like I said, Louisyou reinterpret any opinion that doesn't match yours
in these areas to be something it isn't.

On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 10:14 AM, Louis Proyect  wrote:

> On 2/16/15 10:03 AM, Ron Jacobs wrote:
>
>> I don't mind political disagreements, but I don't like being called a
>> liar. Responding specifically to your charge regarding who was attacked
>> first in eastern Ukraine--I never made a claim one way or another.
>> Instead, I wrote that the separatist protests were attacked by Kiev
>> forces, which they were.
>>
>
> I don't think you lie about everything. Generally when you write about
> Mumia or fracking or some such issue that falls outside the boundaries of
> the geopolitical chess game, you are honest. But when it comes to any
> conflict that pits some hapless victim of the "axis of resistance", you
> write things that are untrue. I will say this. You are not a liar in the
> sense of doing it consciously. It is more a question of someone so cocooned
> in the Dissident Voice, RT.com, WSWS.org "reality" that you are incapable
> of seeing an alternative.
>
>Also, your focus on one fact that may or may not be verifiable
>> (especially since it comes from that servant of Washington and Wall
>> Street--the New York Times) makes it easy for you to avoid the actual
>> premise of my piece---this is a conflict serving the imperial interests
>> of Washington and Moscow.  Your predeliction for confusing opposition to
>> your opinions regarding Ukraine and Syria with support for the Russian
>> empire and its clients is just plain incorrect.  As for propaganda,
>> --nah...I'm just putting forth a perspective based on an
>> anti-imperialist view of the world that considers the US the greatest
>> threat to world peace.
>>
>
> Well, I don't care if you are an anti-imperialist or anti-fluoride. Just
> don't be so intellectually lazy that you write a bunch of undocumented
> horseshit.
>
>  I have no more love for Putin or Assad then you do.
>>
>
> Yes, that's the same disclaimer that the Party of Socialism and Liberation
> use. It is just that you like them spend 10,000 words against those who
> oppose them to every word against the dictatorships that are murdering them.
>
>
>
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Re: [Marxism] Creating a Crisis--It's NATO's Way


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On 2/16/15 10:03 AM, Ron Jacobs wrote:

I don't mind political disagreements, but I don't like being called a
liar. Responding specifically to your charge regarding who was attacked
first in eastern Ukraine--I never made a claim one way or another.
Instead, I wrote that the separatist protests were attacked by Kiev
forces, which they were.


I don't think you lie about everything. Generally when you write about 
Mumia or fracking or some such issue that falls outside the boundaries 
of the geopolitical chess game, you are honest. But when it comes to any 
conflict that pits some hapless victim of the "axis of resistance", you 
write things that are untrue. I will say this. You are not a liar in the 
sense of doing it consciously. It is more a question of someone so 
cocooned in the Dissident Voice, RT.com, WSWS.org "reality" that you are 
incapable of seeing an alternative.



  Also, your focus on one fact that may or may not be verifiable
(especially since it comes from that servant of Washington and Wall
Street--the New York Times) makes it easy for you to avoid the actual
premise of my piece---this is a conflict serving the imperial interests
of Washington and Moscow.  Your predeliction for confusing opposition to
your opinions regarding Ukraine and Syria with support for the Russian
empire and its clients is just plain incorrect.  As for propaganda,
--nah...I'm just putting forth a perspective based on an
anti-imperialist view of the world that considers the US the greatest
threat to world peace.


Well, I don't care if you are an anti-imperialist or anti-fluoride. Just 
don't be so intellectually lazy that you write a bunch of undocumented 
horseshit.



I have no more love for Putin or Assad then you do.


Yes, that's the same disclaimer that the Party of Socialism and 
Liberation use. It is just that you like them spend 10,000 words against 
those who oppose them to every word against the dictatorships that are 
murdering them.



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Re: [Marxism] Creating a Crisis--It's NATO's Way

2015-02-16 Thread Ron Jacobs via Marxism

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I don't mind political disagreements, but I don't like being called a liar.
Responding specifically to your charge regarding who was attacked first in
eastern Ukraine--I never made a claim one way or another.  Instead, I wrote
that the separatist protests were attacked by Kiev forces, which they
were.
 Also, your focus on one fact that may or may not be verifiable (especially
since it comes from that servant of Washington and Wall Street--the New
York Times) makes it easy for you to avoid the actual premise of my
piece---this is a conflict serving the imperial interests of Washington and
Moscow.  Your predeliction for confusing opposition to your opinions
regarding Ukraine and Syria with support for the Russian empire and its
clients is just plain incorrect.  As for propaganda, --nah...I'm just
putting forth a perspective based on an anti-imperialist view of the world
that considers the US the greatest threat to world peace.
I have no more love for Putin or Assad then you do.  I also can't pretend
that supporting the Kiev government or the current armed opposition in
Syria is different than supporting the goals of US imperialism.

On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Louis Proyect  wrote:

> On 2/16/15 9:02 AM, Ron Jacobs via Marxism wrote:
>
>>
>> http://stillhomeron.blogspot.com/2015/02/creating-crisis-
>> its-natos-way.html
>>
>
> Ron writes: "It was only a matter of days before the separatist elements
> [in Ukraine] opposed to the new Kiev government held protests that were
> attacked."
>
> Ron, your article is filled with such assertions that are not backed up.
> In fact the statement above is complete horseshit. I am not going to take
> the trouble to demonstrate in any great detail why it is horseshit because
> I am too busy right now working on a video interview with Erwin Baur but
> would urge you in the future to try to refer your readers to newspaper
> articles that back up your claims.
>
> I will leave it like this. In Donetsk, the violence was initially directed
> at Maidan supporters and not the other way around. Here is one report,
> dated a month before the Russian leader of the Donetsk separatist movement
> announced the formation of a new "people's republic":
>
> http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/14/witnesses-
> share-video-and-accounts-of-deadly-attack-on-anti-war-
> rally-in-eastern-ukraine-by-russian-separatists/
>
> In other words, you are writing lies in the service of the Kremlin's bid
> to create Novorussya, an ambition that has a sorry past going back to
> Catherine the Great's turning Ukraine into the Russian equivalent of Texas
> after the fashion of the Mexican-American War of 1848. You know, the war
> that Henry David Thoreau ended up in jail for his protest.
>
> Frankly, I don't care if you heart beats faster when you see Vladimir
> Putin riding around on horseback bare-chested. But at least take the
> trouble to put a tiny bit of documentation in your propaganda.
>
>
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[Marxism] Glenn Greenwald: Hailed as a Model for Successful Intervention, Libya Proves to be the Exact Opposite

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"Since 2011, Libya has rapidly unraveled in much the way Iraq did following
that invasion: swamped by militia rule, factional warfare, economic
devastation, and complete lawlessness. And to their eternal shame, most
self-proclaimed 'humanitarians' who advocated the Libya intervention
completely ignored the country once the fun parts – the war victory dances
and mocking of war opponents – was over. The feel-good 'humanitarianism' of
war advocates, as usual, extended only to the cheering from a safe distance
as bombs dropped."

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/02/16/hailed-model-successful-intervention-libya-proves-exact-opposite

-- 
"Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen
lytlað."
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Re: [Marxism] Creating a Crisis--It's NATO's Way

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On 2/16/15 9:02 AM, Ron Jacobs via Marxism wrote:

http://stillhomeron.blogspot.com/2015/02/creating-crisis-its-natos-way.html

Ron writes: "It was only a matter of days before the separatist elements
[in Ukraine] opposed to the new Kiev government held protests that were
attacked."

Ron, your article is filled with such assertions that are not backed up.
In fact the statement above is complete horseshit. I am not going to
take the trouble to demonstrate in any great detail why it is horseshit
because I am too busy right now working on a video interview with Erwin
Baur but would urge you in the future to try to refer your readers to
newspaper articles that back up your claims.

I will leave it like this. In Donetsk, the violence was initially
directed at Maidan supporters and not the other way around. Here is one
report, dated a month before the Russian leader of the Donetsk
separatist movement announced the formation of a new "people's republic":

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/14/witnesses-share-video-and-accounts-of-deadly-attack-on-anti-war-rally-in-eastern-ukraine-by-russian-separatists/

In other words, you are writing lies in the service of the Kremlin's bid
to create Novorussya, an ambition that has a sorry past going back to
Catherine the Great's turning Ukraine into the Russian equivalent of
Texas after the fashion of the Mexican-American War of 1848. You know,
the war that Henry David Thoreau ended up in jail for his protest.

Frankly, I don't care if you heart beats faster when you see Vladimir
Putin riding around on horseback bare-chested. But at least take the
trouble to put a tiny bit of documentation in your propaganda.

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[Marxism] Palestinian statement in solidarity with the people of Greece

2015-02-16 Thread Ken Hiebert via Marxism

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*This statement was initiated by Palestinians in Europe, in solidarity with
the people of Greece, as part of the international movement standing with
the Greek people against austerity and injustice. We invite all Palestinian
individuals and organizations to endorse. To endorse, please
email palestiniangreeksolidar...@gmail.com
 or fill out the
form: http://bit.ly/PalGreekSolidarity *

We, the undersigned Palestinian individuals and organizations, express our
solidarity with the people of Greece. On February 11 and 15, hundreds of
thousands of people will take to the streets in Greece, Europe and around
the world to demand an end to the European Union's policy of austerity that
has subjected the Greek people to economic devastation, forcing millions
into poverty and over one-quarter of the Greek working people into
unemployment.

https://palestiniangreeksolidarity.wordpress.com/2015/02/15/sign-on-palestinian-statement-in-solidarity-with-the-people-of-greece/
*
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[Marxism] Creating a Crisis--It's NATO's Way

2015-02-16 Thread Ron Jacobs via Marxism

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http://stillhomeron.blogspot.com/2015/02/creating-crisis-its-natos-way.html
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[Marxism] Fwd: Nicaraguans demand action over illness killing thousands of sugar cane workers | World news | The Guardian