Re: [Marxism] “Sochi didn’t succeed, it’s just that the weapons are hidden” (ANF)
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Michael Karadjis quotes SDF commander Ebu Omer Idlibi (Abu Omar al-Idlibi), who said: “They [Jabhat al-Nusra] proceeded to disband our forces because we fought ISIS and we were against putting the revolution on a jihadist path …. When we continued to fight ISIS, all terrorists came together under Turkey’s orders and attacked us. We were forced to leave Idlib.” Michael tries to cast doubt on Idlibi's account by saying that there was no presence of ISIS in Idlib province at the time when Idlibi's group was forced to leave the area (towards the end of 2014). Michael says: "Sheer fantasy. ISIS was driven root and branch from Idlib in January 2014 by the SRF and other rebel groups (including mainstream Islamist groups). There has been no ISIS since then in Idlib for them to fight alone; and all the other rebel groups in Idlib, including HTS, are mortally opposed to ISIS, despite this little groups claiming to be the unique heroes." In reality, there was a temporary revival of ISIS in Idlib in the second half of 2014, as a result of the greatly increased prestige and resources it gained through its capture of Mosul in June 2014. Aron Lund, in his article "Who are the soldiers of the Islamic State", says: "The Islamic State’s whirlwind successes in Iraq in June 2014 sparked a flood of new defections. Within days of the fall of Mosul, a group of FSA leaders in eastern Syria had defected, including the officers responsible for the FSA’s local ammunition stockpiles. Many members of the Nusra Front and the Islamic Front did the same, and so did a host of smaller factions and local clans who realized that the Islamic State was on the verge of taking over their region. Indeed, as all organized and armed opposition melted away, it didn’t take long until the Islamic State had cleansed the entire region of its rivals, leaving only pockets of resistance. "In the northwestern province of Idlib, the so-called Dawood Brigade (which was already very close to the Islamic State) also decided to jump on the bandwagon and sent a large convoy of fighters to the Islamic State capital of Raqqa. Stray groups of rebels are in fact arriving to Raqqa from Idlib even now, months later." http://carnegie-mec.org/diwan/57021?lang=en Given that ISIS was present in Idlib in the second half of 2014, there is no reason to doubt that Abu Omar al-Idlibi's group fought against it at that time. There is no reason to question his veracity. But he does not claim to have fought ISIS "alone", as Michael suggests. He says: "We and some forces like us fighting under different names were removed from Idlib in 2014 by terrorist forces. Jabhat Al Nusra attacked us as we were fighting the regime and ISIS". Thus it was not just Abu Omar al-Idlibi's group, but also "some forces like us". Chris Slee From: Marxism on behalf of mkaradjis via Marxism Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2018 7:07:17 AM To: Chris Slee Subject: Re: [Marxism] “Sochi didn’t succeed, it’s just that the weapons are hidden” (ANF) POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * The article is correct in opposing the Sochi agreement, but other than that, it is the usual Apoist mish-mash of half-truths spun together to justify the SDF’s sectarian course. The writer is not from YPG, but from one of the microscopic non-YPG constituents of the SDF, "Liwa Shimal Demokratik" the article says, which is supposedly a local Idlib force. Therefore, the discussion about being involved in the revolution and fighting Assad and ISIS until 2014 is not suggesting that the PYD/YPG were fighting Assad until 2014 - they of course never did that - just this little group, which, until then, was presumably part of the larger FSA forces. The claim that Turkey and the "terrorist" forces it claims that Turkey backs had essentially squashed the life out of the Idlib theatre of the uprising by 2012 already is self-serving crap, indeed, Idlib was very much one of the key centres of the democratic revolution, and this claim is only made to justify the sectarian course towards the whole revolution adopted by the SDF leadership ie the YPG. “The forces who truly wanted democracy were removed from Idlib and disbanded. Idlib was turned into a gang central at the hands of T
Re: [Marxism] “Sochi didn’t succeed, it’s just that the weapons are hidden” (ANF)
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * 1) The YPG did not exist in 2011, although there was a small precursor organisation. The revolutionaries were busy organising the people of Rojava, in preparation for the insurrection that occurred in July 2012. After the insurrection, the most immediate threat to Rojava came from Turkish-backed groups, not the Assad regime. Fear of Turkey - justified given Turkey's extreme hostility to Kurdish self-determination - led to distrust of rebel groups supported by Turkey. Rojava tried to remain separate from both the Assad regime and the Turkish-backed rebels. 2) I am not familiar with the details of Ebu Omer Idlibi's history. But I assume that having been driven out of Idlib, and having joined the Syrian Democratic Forces, he would have participated in SDF campaigns against ISIS etc. The SDF policy is to not initiate military conflict with Assadist forces, but to fight back if attacked. Chris Slee From: Marxism on behalf of RKOB via Marxism Sent: Wednesday, 17 October 2018 9:13 PM To: Chris Slee Subject: Re: [Marxism] “Sochi didn’t succeed, it’s just that the weapons are hidden” (ANF) POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * This is indeed an interesting interview. It raises, among others, two questions. 1) The SDF commander Ebu Omer Idlibi says that the revolution started as as a progressive uprising for democracy but was hijacked by Turkey and jihadists in 2012. So why did the YPG not lift a finger to join the popular revolution in 2011? 2) The report also says that the commander (and his militia, I assume) fought against the regime until 2014. So does this mean that he/they stopped fighting the regime since then? The SDF commander also criticizes the Sochi Deal. But what is his alternative? Could it be an attack by the regime (with the SDF's help)? Am 17.10.2018 um 11:39 schrieb Chris Slee via Marxism: > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > SDF commander Ebu Omer Idlibi argues that Turkey does not intend to withdraw > from Syria's Idlib province. He says: "They absolutely want to be permanent > in Idlib, Afrin and Shehba": > > https://anfenglishmobile.com/features/sochi-didn-t-succeed-it-s-just-that-the-weapons-are-hidden-30229 > > He also gives some historical background on the struggle in Idlib: > > “The Idlib territory was one of the first cities to rise up against the > dictatorial regime when the revolution started in 2011. The people of Idlib > have been suffering since the revolution first started. When they rose up for > revolution and serhildan, their goal was democracy and freedom. Unfortunately > the regime used intense violence, and the struggle was forced to evolve into > an armed struggle. That was received well by Turkey. They placed many > terrorist groups in Idlib and fed them. Turkey and Qatar have always offered > material support to these gang groups. The forces who truly wanted democracy > were removed from Idlib and disbanded. Idlib was turned into a gang central > at the hands of Turkey. The people of Idlib who rose up in 2011 for a > revolution demanding democracy and freedom have been victimized since 2012 to > date. Regime violence, gang violence and all the pressure has weakened the > people of Idlib.” > > > > “We and some forces like us fighting under different names were removed from > Idlib in 2014 by terrorist forces. Jabhat Al Nusra attacked us as we were > fighting the regime and ISIS. They proceeded to disband our forces because we > fought ISIS and we were against putting the revolution on a jihadist path." > > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: > http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/aktiv%40rkob.net > -- Revolutionär-Kommunistische Organisation BEFREIUNG (Österreichische Sektion der RCIT, www.thecommunists.net<http://
Re: [Marxism] “Sochi didn’t succeed, it’s just that the weapons are hidden” (ANF)
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * The article is correct in opposing the Sochi agreement, but other than that, it is the usual Apoist mish-mash of half-truths spun together to justify the SDF’s sectarian course. The writer is not from YPG, but from one of the microscopic non-YPG constituents of the SDF, "Liwa Shimal Demokratik" the article says, which is supposedly a local Idlib force. Therefore, the discussion about being involved in the revolution and fighting Assad and ISIS until 2014 is not suggesting that the PYD/YPG were fighting Assad until 2014 - they of course never did that - just this little group, which, until then, was presumably part of the larger FSA forces. The claim that Turkey and the "terrorist" forces it claims that Turkey backs had essentially squashed the life out of the Idlib theatre of the uprising by 2012 already is self-serving crap, indeed, Idlib was very much one of the key centres of the democratic revolution, and this claim is only made to justify the sectarian course towards the whole revolution adopted by the SDF leadership ie the YPG. “The forces who truly wanted democracy were removed from Idlib and disbanded. Idlib was turned into a gang central at the hands of Turkey.” This is sheer nonsense, especially as the writer seems to be saying this had already occurred by 2012 or even 2014. It would even be a lie today, despite the further proxification of many rebel groups by Turkey in the last couple of years, especially if anyone looks at the vast outpouring of tens of thousands of people all over Greater Idlib in recent weeks and months seeking to defend their citadel of relative freedom from the real threat of fascistic rule posed by the possible return of the regime. Given the assertion that his group was attacked by Nusra in 2014, I am assuming the group was one of the smaller components of the large FSA coalition, the Syrian Revolutionaries Front (SRF), which Nusra attacked and disbanded in November 2014. Some of its minor constituents went to the SDF, due to being so (understandably) vengeful regarding Nusra. However, the majority of the SRF components joined other FSA groups, which have maintained a strong presence in Idlib right up to now, and have regularly clashed with Nusra (now HTS), while continuing to see their main task as fighting the regime. Still other components of the former SRF joined the rebel groups involved in Turkey’s Euphrates Shield Operation of 2016, to evict ISIS from the Azaz to Jarablus region along Turkey’s southern border. “They proceeded to disband our forces because we fought ISIS and we were against putting the revolution on a jihadist path …. When we continued to fight ISIS, all terrorists came together under Turkey’s orders and attacked us. We were forced to leave Idlib.” Sheer fantasy. ISIS was driven root and branch from Idlib in January 2014 by the SRF and other rebel groups (including mainstream Islamist groups). There ahs been no ISIS since then in Idlib for them to fight alone; and all the other rebel groups in Idlib, including HTS, are mortally opposed to ISIS, despite this little groups claiming to be the unique heroes. The only time ISIS returned to Idlib was late 2017-early 2018, when the Assad regime escorted them through hundreds of miles of solid regime territory, from eastern Syria, to attack the rebels in southern Idlib. All the rebels, including and especially HTS, drove them away. On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 9:14 PM RKOB via Marxism wrote: > > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > This is indeed an interesting interview. It raises, among others, two > questions. > > 1) The SDF commander Ebu Omer Idlibi says that the revolution started as > as a progressive uprising for democracy but was hijacked by Turkey and > jihadists in 2012. So why did the YPG not lift a finger to join the > popular revolution in 2011? > > 2) The report also says that the commander (and his militia, I assume) > fought against the regime until 2014. So does this mean that he/they > stopped fighting the regime since then? > > The SDF commander also criticizes the Sochi Deal. But what is his > alternative? Could it be an attack by the regime (with the SDF's help)? > > > Am 17.10.2018 um 11:39 schrieb Chris Slee via Marxism: > > POSTING RULES & NOTES > > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > > #2 This
Re: [Marxism] “Sochi didn’t succeed, it’s just that the weapons are hidden” (ANF)
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * This is indeed an interesting interview. It raises, among others, two questions. 1) The SDF commander Ebu Omer Idlibi says that the revolution started as as a progressive uprising for democracy but was hijacked by Turkey and jihadists in 2012. So why did the YPG not lift a finger to join the popular revolution in 2011? 2) The report also says that the commander (and his militia, I assume) fought against the regime until 2014. So does this mean that he/they stopped fighting the regime since then? The SDF commander also criticizes the Sochi Deal. But what is his alternative? Could it be an attack by the regime (with the SDF's help)? Am 17.10.2018 um 11:39 schrieb Chris Slee via Marxism: POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * SDF commander Ebu Omer Idlibi argues that Turkey does not intend to withdraw from Syria's Idlib province. He says: "They absolutely want to be permanent in Idlib, Afrin and Shehba": https://anfenglishmobile.com/features/sochi-didn-t-succeed-it-s-just-that-the-weapons-are-hidden-30229 He also gives some historical background on the struggle in Idlib: “The Idlib territory was one of the first cities to rise up against the dictatorial regime when the revolution started in 2011. The people of Idlib have been suffering since the revolution first started. When they rose up for revolution and serhildan, their goal was democracy and freedom. Unfortunately the regime used intense violence, and the struggle was forced to evolve into an armed struggle. That was received well by Turkey. They placed many terrorist groups in Idlib and fed them. Turkey and Qatar have always offered material support to these gang groups. The forces who truly wanted democracy were removed from Idlib and disbanded. Idlib was turned into a gang central at the hands of Turkey. The people of Idlib who rose up in 2011 for a revolution demanding democracy and freedom have been victimized since 2012 to date. Regime violence, gang violence and all the pressure has weakened the people of Idlib.” “We and some forces like us fighting under different names were removed from Idlib in 2014 by terrorist forces. Jabhat Al Nusra attacked us as we were fighting the regime and ISIS. They proceeded to disband our forces because we fought ISIS and we were against putting the revolution on a jihadist path." _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/aktiv%40rkob.net -- Revolutionär-Kommunistische Organisation BEFREIUNG (Österreichische Sektion der RCIT, www.thecommunists.net) www.rkob.net ak...@rkob.net Tel./SMS/WhatsApp/Telegram: +43-650-4068314 --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] “Sochi didn’t succeed, it’s just that the weapons are hidden” (ANF)
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * SDF commander Ebu Omer Idlibi argues that Turkey does not intend to withdraw from Syria's Idlib province. He says: "They absolutely want to be permanent in Idlib, Afrin and Shehba": https://anfenglishmobile.com/features/sochi-didn-t-succeed-it-s-just-that-the-weapons-are-hidden-30229 He also gives some historical background on the struggle in Idlib: “The Idlib territory was one of the first cities to rise up against the dictatorial regime when the revolution started in 2011. The people of Idlib have been suffering since the revolution first started. When they rose up for revolution and serhildan, their goal was democracy and freedom. Unfortunately the regime used intense violence, and the struggle was forced to evolve into an armed struggle. That was received well by Turkey. They placed many terrorist groups in Idlib and fed them. Turkey and Qatar have always offered material support to these gang groups. The forces who truly wanted democracy were removed from Idlib and disbanded. Idlib was turned into a gang central at the hands of Turkey. The people of Idlib who rose up in 2011 for a revolution demanding democracy and freedom have been victimized since 2012 to date. Regime violence, gang violence and all the pressure has weakened the people of Idlib.” “We and some forces like us fighting under different names were removed from Idlib in 2014 by terrorist forces. Jabhat Al Nusra attacked us as we were fighting the regime and ISIS. They proceeded to disband our forces because we fought ISIS and we were against putting the revolution on a jihadist path." _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
