Re: [Marxism] A comment on ISIS worth sharing

2014-09-22 Thread Joseph Catron via Marxism
==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


When you see an unironic reference to Iran as mullah-controlled, there is
a very good chance you are reading the writings of a fool. (Mullah, in
the Iranian context, means something very different than pretty much every
Westerner using the term imagines.)

Of course, the use of his as the possessive for a neuter (regime), and
its sloppy distribution among multiple hims, is the second clue.

But it could be worse. I've seen a few witless commentators accurately call
ISIS takfiris and commit takfir *in the same paragraph* lately.

On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

1-  Since taking power in Iran in the late seventies, the ruling
 mullah-controlled theocratic Islamic state has been calling the USA the
 Great Devil and the USA has been calling Iran a terrorist state. The USA
 invaded Iraq twice since then (about to do that a third time) and not a
 single shot was fired by US against Iran during same period. The “Terrorist
 State” joined hands with the “Great Devil” in its war on both Iraq and
 Afghanistan (as indicated on several occasions by Khatami, Rafsanjani, and
 Iran’s UN ambassador).

 2-  Since taking power in Syria in 1970, the Assad regime provided all
 kinds of services to the “imperialists” including his interference in
 Lebanon to wipe out the left-oriented national front, and his support for
 sectarian militias there; his completion of Israel’s war against
 Palestinians in refugee camps after the 1982 invasion of Lebanon; his
 direct involvement, with the imperialists, in the war against Iraq in 1991
 and in 2003 (and now); his participation in the so-called war on terror
 after 9/11 where he provided tremendous intelligence to the “imperialists”;
 and his participation (together with Iran) in the CIA’s rendition program
 where he was involved in torturing suspects in his prisons.


-- 
Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen
lytlað.

Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com


[Marxism] A comment on ISIS worth sharing

2014-09-17 Thread Louis Proyect via Marxism

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


This showed up on my blog this morning:

The left in western countries is subdivided into two main groups, when 
it comes to what is going on in Syria and Iraq. The first group listens 
to the Anti-imperialist rhetoric coming out of Iran/Syria and believes 
that the governments there are truly anti-imperialist. This group 
supports these regimes (overlooking their murderous records) based on 
this rhetoric without looking at what these governments actually are and 
what they have been doing since taking power, AND considering whoever 
opposes them as an imperialist stooge. The other group supports the 
uprising in Syria (but not Iraq) on the ground that it is an 
anti-dictatorship uprising (thinking that the uprising in Iraq is ISIS 
controlled). The following are some observations in this regard:


1-	Since taking power in Iran in the late seventies, the ruling 
mullah-controlled theocratic Islamic state has been calling the USA the 
Great Devil and the USA has been calling Iran a terrorist state. The USA 
invaded Iraq twice since then (about to do that a third time) and not a 
single shot was fired by US against Iran during same period. The 
“Terrorist State” joined hands with the “Great Devil” in its war on both 
Iraq and Afghanistan (as indicated on several occasions by Khatami, 
Rafsanjani, and Iran’s UN ambassador).


2-	Since taking power in Syria in 1970, the Assad regime provided all 
kinds of services to the “imperialists” including his interference in 
Lebanon to wipe out the left-oriented national front, and his support 
for sectarian militias there; his completion of Israel’s war against 
Palestinians in refugee camps after the 1982 invasion of Lebanon; his 
direct involvement, with the imperialists, in the war against Iraq in 
1991 and in 2003 (and now); his participation in the so-called war on 
terror after 9/11 where he provided tremendous intelligence to the 
“imperialists”; and his participation (together with Iran) in the CIA’s 
rendition program where he was involved in torturing suspects in his 
prisons.


What is going on in the Arab Countries now is a counter-revolution (to 
destroy the Arab Spring and possibly to later subdivide these countries 
along sectarian/ethnic lines) led by USA and supported by all its allies 
in the area which include all governments (including Gulf countries, 
Iran, Syria, Egypt, Israel, etc) AND by Jihadist groups (created by USA 
and these countries) that are being used as Trojan horses to fight 
revolutions from within – as happened in Iraq in 2006 with the so-called 
al Qaida which was responsible for the defeat of the anti-occupation 
insurgency (with direct cooperation between Iran, USA), and as is 
happening now in Iraq and Syria with ISIS (with direct cooperation 
between USA and Iran). The objective is to try to return to the 
status-quo (prior to Arab spring) where stooge governments run these 
countries for the benefit of imperialists (Global like USA and regional 
like Iran). The counter-revolution was successful in Egypt (through the 
reactionary Muslim Brotherhood first and through the military junta 
later), and to a lesser extent in Tunisia. This counter-revolution is 
still going on in both Iraq and Syria, where the USA and its allies had 
to interfere directly to try to defeat both of these revolutions. Of 
main interests is Iraq where there are huge American/Iranian interests 
(mostly oil for USA and empire dreams with associated benefits for 
Iran). The following are some observations in this regard:


1-	The revolution against the government in Syria did not receive any 
useful support form the USA and its allies (only rhetoric). The support 
provided was mainly to prop-up extreme Islamist groups (became ISIS 
later) whose purpose was to destroy the revolution from within. In 
addition, all Iranian support to the regime in Syria came either through 
Iraq where the USA could have easily stopped it, being in control of 
Iraqi airspace, or through Lebanon (where without USA approval it would 
not have been done).


2-	The majority of leaders of ISIS (including al-Baghdadi) were 
imprisoned in BOCA by Americans in Iraq, where they were brainwashed. 
They were later transferred to Abu Ghreib Prison after withdrawal of US 
forces from Iraq (controlled by pro-Iran government). They were released 
in 2012 form Abu Greib (they called it a breakout) and travelled through 
Iraqi and Syrian government controlled areas (about 400 km) to get to 
Syria without a single shot being fired at them by Iraqi (Iranian) or 
Syrian forces. Other extremist leaders were released from Syrian prisons 
by the government there.


3-	Al-Baghdadi declared the establishment of the IS from a mosque in 
Mosul. He travelled there from Syria and passed 

Re: [Marxism] A comment on ISIS worth sharing

2014-09-17 Thread DW via Marxism
==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


The majority of leaders of ISIS (including al-Baghdadi) were imprisoned in
BOCA by Americans in Iraq, where they were brainwashed.  Really? In
another wise well argued essay, this sort of unsubstantiated conspiracy
theory stuff simply degrades the rest of the essay.

Basically the essay, while it is well argued, puts forward the 'theory'
being circulated by supporters of the Syrian rebellion, that ISIS was
invented on purpose by the U.S. This hardly helps clarify the issues at
hand.

David

Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com