date:20100506

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


The MSNBC gang is excited about the results, and have touted the 68%
positive responses of the American people to "progressive."
Interestingly, they did mention the 29% positive response of Americans
to "socialism"...or the mere 52% positive response to "capitalism."

Given that the capitalists own all the big media, run both parties
(and virtually outlaw the others where they can get away with it), it
looks to me like a big damned moral defeat for the free market
morons

http://people-press.org/report/610/socialism-capitalism

ML


Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Marxism] AGITPROP NEWS: Remembering Kent & Jackson

2010-05-06 Thread Mike Alewitz

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==




Please Post and Distribute: 




LaBOR aRT & MuRAL PRoJECT 
AGITPROP NEWS: 5.5.10 


In this issue: 


1. Remembering Kent & Jackson
2. The Spirit Lives
3. A Mural 40 Years Later
4. Street Artists vs. Teabag Taliban
5. Rare & Exciting



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -



1. Remembering Kent & Jackson
 


> 
> REMEMBERING KENT AND JACKSON
> By Mike Alewitz
> 
> (Please leave comments about Kent & Jackson at: 
> http://kentmassacre.wordpress.com)
> 
> * * * * *
> 
> A photo records my friend Jerry Persky and I looking on as a student jumps in 
> a pool of blood.  Jerry had just told me that our friend Sandy Scheuer had 
> been shot.  The numb disbelief is written on our faces. 67 shots in 13 
> seconds left four students dead and nine wounded, one paralyzed from the 
> waist down.  
> 
> There are events in history that we must never forget, and one such moment 
> was on May 4, 1970, at Kent State University in Ohio. The few grim seconds of 
> gunfire are burned indelibly on those of who witnessed the murder.  In the 
> end, the events would impact on world politics.
> 
> On April 30, 1970, a nervous, sweating Pres. Richard Nixon went on television 
> to announce the invasion of Cambodia - a major escalation of the war in 
> Southeast Asia. In response, demonstrations erupted on college campuses 
> across the country - and Kent State was no exception. A series of protests 
> and rallies took place, during which time the ROTC building was torched.
> 
> The burning of the dilapidated wooden structure occurred under mysterious 
> circumstances. Seizing on this incident, Gov. James Rhodes ordered the Ohio 
> National Guard onto the campus, branding the protesters as “worse than the 
> brown shirts”
> 
> “When the technique of the Weathermen and the SDS and the Student 
> Mobilization Committee, when this is employed and firebombing and violence, 
> and let me also say that death is not going to stand in their way to answer 
> their purpose...we will use what ever force necessary to drive them out of 
> Kent!" 
> 
> He went on to say, “we’re up against the strongest, well-trained, militant 
> revolutionary group ever assembled in America...No one is safe in Portage 
> County.   It’s just that simple.   No one is safe.” Rhodes was echoing Nixon, 
> who called the student's "bums.” These inflammatory remarks provided a 
> political framework for the subsequent events.
> 
> On May 4, in protest of the escalation of the war and the military occupation 
> of our campus, we peacefully gathered on the commons, the traditional free 
> speech assembly area. The Guard ordered us to disperse, and when we refused 
> to surrender our right to demonstrate, they began a massive barrage of 
> teargas. The demonstration was broken up, practically before it began.
> 
> We ran over Blanket Hill, slowly but doggedly pursued by a line of soldiers 
> with fixed bayonets. The guardsmen marched to a practice field where they 
> knelt and brandished their weapons, aiming at the scattered students. The 
> soldiers stood and began to retrace their route back to the commons. But at 
> the top of the hill they simultaneously wheeled about and fired.
> 
> The victims were far from the troops and posed no threat. Allison Krause was 
> 330 feet away from the nearest Guardsman when she was fatally gunned down.  
> Sandy was 390 feet away, walking to class.  She was shot through the neck and 
> killed. Another friend, Robbie Stamps, was almost 500 feet away when wounded. 
>  Four students lay dead:  Allison Krause, Bill Schroeder, Sandy Scheuer and 
> Jeffrey Miller.  Nine others were wounded - Dean Kahler would be paralyzed 
> for life.
>  
> * * * * *
>  
> The bloodshed was not over. Ten days later, on May 14, a deadly salvo of over 
> 450 bullets into a women's dormitory at Jackson State University in 
> Mississippi left another two students dead. There is no accurate count on the 
> number of wounded. The reaction of the Jackson students says much about the 
> expectations of African Americans - students avoided going to a hospital, 
> fearing it might lead to arrest and prosecution on frame-up charges related 
> to the shootings.
> 
> The murdered Jackson students were Phillip Gibbs and James Earl Green.  Gibbs 
> was the son of a sharecropper – he finished at the top of his high school 
> class and went on to Jackson State. He was a member of the Civil Rights 
> Council and was active in his church and basketball. He had recently married 
> his high school sweetheart and had an 11-month son.
> 
> James Earl Green was a 17-year-old senior in high school passing through 
> Jackson State on his way home from his after school job. He was one of eight 
> children, son of a laborer. He hoped to attend the University of Cali

[Marxism] Greece

2010-05-06 Thread Joanne Gullion

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


It is crystal clear to me that these acts by anarchists or whoever; the fire 
bombing of buildings that may contain people, should be disavowed by all those 
on the left including anarchists.
To us in world outside of Greece who have been so inspired by the spirit and 
militancy of the Greek workers fighting against the austerity measures, this 
action seems capable of derailing the struggle.   That would be a great let 
down not only for the Greeks but people all over the world who are looking to 
Greece right now for inspiration for their own struggles.
I totally agree with Louis that terrorism, as well as reformism, is 
counter-productive to a true revolutionary movement.  This lesson has been 
proven time and again over many decades.

Now if you had 50,000 people storming the Greek parliament and throwing the 
responsible bastards out, and in the process some officials got their ass 
kicked, that would not be terrorism, but mass action and would no doubt be 
applauded by millions around the world. 

It is also obvious to me that there is a need for a vanguard party to bring to 
fruition a socialist revolution.  I am unfortunately ignorant about if there is 
any formation like that in Greece right now.  The Greek comrades on this list 
perhaps could fill us in a bit.

Joanne Gullion





Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Productivity and costs

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


exactly, which is why we are heading into the dip of a double dip 
contraction.  Overproduction engenders contraction, engenders "recovery" 
engenders overproduction.  As Marx put it in volume 3 of Capital:

The periodical depreciation of the existing capital, which is one of the 
immanent means of capitalist production by which the fall in the rate of 
profit is checked and the accumulation of capital-value through the 
formation of new capital promoted, disturbs the existing conditions, within 
which the process of circulation and reproduction of capital takes place, 
and is therefore accompanied by sudden stagnations and crises in the process 
of production.-Karl Marx, Capital, volume 3, The Law of the Falling Tendency 
of the Rate of Profit, II. Conflict between the Expansion of Production and 
the Creation of Values


Dow Jones [our version of the quart-quarante] had a turbulent day today, as 
turbulent as the days around Lehman Bros. collapse, dropping, at one point 
1000 points [almost 10%], before finishing down around 347 points.

Investment opportunities?  Well as the Wall Street Journal remarked over a 
year ago, "canned goods and shotguns" are always good investments in times 
like these.

But as for trading vehicles for accumulating a little personal profit I 
can make no recommendations.

I can't even recommend "going short" against the box, because as has 
happened recently, governments are inclined to ban short trading and simply 
nullify short positions.


- Original Message - 
From: "Dan"  



Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] benjamin butler & anti union tacticsthe

2010-05-06 Thread Peggy Dobbins

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


> If Jefferson Davis and Robert e lee had been hung as war crimminals  
> as Nazi leaders were post WWII, we might have been spared the  
> romantization of new forms of racist exploitation. What if there  
> were a Bismarck Hitler university  for eg
>


Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Marxism] Reply to Jim re 1844 German journal

2010-05-06 Thread Peggy Dobbins

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


>
> Hi Jim

Saw your query re 1844 journal

I am a fairly good Marxian scholar but pretty ignorant about the  
German revolutionary context. Until now. I've just written a play  
around fictionalized letters from Agnes douai back home to Bettina Von  
arnim. I know Adolph Douai was a"48er". Arrested several times in  
Germany and came to Texas where his anti slavery and pro socialist  
editing and agitating had his family-10 children- run out of Texas. He  
gave the eulogy at the memorial for Marx in ny.

The play is not about the douais. But other things a proto  
anthropologist and socialist might have been interested in. I'd enjoy  
learning more about the German revolution the 40s and exchanges  
between Marx and others involved. 
  


Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Is firebombing a bank an acceptable tactic?

2010-05-06 Thread Dan

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


I myself in France, have had to engage time and time again with
advocates of "propaganda by the deed"-slash-"terrorism".

Three years ago, together with some comrades, we were having a union
meeting when two guys (in their forties) showed up and started talking
about the need to "acquire assault rifles" and "start organizing
military-style training, including the use of high-power explosives".

When I told them that that was absolutely out of the question and that
they were acting like "agents provocateurs", they started calling us
"bourgeois" and launched into a weird discourse about how Stalin had
saved the world from the Nazi menace by organizing partisans in
Byelorussia and Ukraine. Their rhetoric was bizarre, to say the least,
as they claimed to be "anarchists influenced by Stalinism/Maoism and the
concept of a Protracted People's War directed at surrounding cities and
doing away with the Sate apparatus in order to establish Libertarian
Communism". 

Of course, we never saw them again, although they did manage to entice a
younger and less-experienced comrade into their "People's Anarchist
Guerrilla Brigade". He later told us that one of those two guys forgot
his coat at a bar, and that when he went through the pockets ... he
found an old pay slip from the "RG", the French Secret Service agency.





Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Is firebombing a bank an acceptable tactic?

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==

Mark Lause wrote:
> The people who did this were out of line on all sorts of levels...the
> most important to us being that they presumed to act for the masses.
> What they call themselves or how they theoretically justify it isn't
> really the key issue, is it?

This is absolutely true. And I am surprised that Jay and Sartesian would 
have problems with me ripping the anarchists a new one. I only do this 
with the organized Marxist left the other 364 days of the year.

Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Is firebombing a bank an acceptable tactic?

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


I agree with Louis that the criticism is an obligation we have.  I
disagree in that the problem's not "anarchism" or "socialism" or any
other word or label.

The people who did this were out of line on all sorts of levels...the
most important to us being that they presumed to act for the masses.
What they call themselves or how they theoretically justify it isn't
really the key issue, is it?

ML


Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Productivity and costs

2010-05-06 Thread Dan

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


Fascinating posting by Artesian.

So since 2009, productivity has gone up by 6%. Doubtless this is due to
the numerous lay offs, which mean that less wrokers are working harder
(they are afraid of being sacked) to do the work that their former
colleagues did.

Under such circumstances, there is no reason for bosses to employ more
workers. The labour market favours the employers. No end to high
unemployment in sight yet.

And of course the reserve army will always be there waiting to be
mobilized as soon as business picks up. But in the meantime, wages will
be kept to a bare minimum. No major wage increases in sight either.

But what of Capitalists' profits ? How will they realize all this social
surplus they are extracting ? How can this social labour realize its
social value ? I was under the impression that financial markets were
jittery at the moment, what with all this talk of sovereign nations
being on the verge of default.
As I know you are all into this kind of thing, could you please tell me,
Artesian, where you think the next major investment opportunities lie ?
I would love to impress my comrades by displaying my mastery of the
intricacies of the circulation of Capital.





Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Is firebombing a bank an acceptable tactic?

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==

S. Artesian wrote:
  > I dont understand how it is NOT an ugly smear to assume that 
this action is
> the action of anarchists, and that anarchists are an, if not THE obstacle, 
> to the development of the struggle in Greece, and yet it is any ugly smear 
> to say -- arguing that this is a criminal act of irresponsible radical 
> merely reproduces the arguments of the bourgeoisie?
> 

Of course the anarchists are an obstacle. So are the social 
democrats and the CP. Reformism and ultraleftism are the opposite 
sides of the same coin, just as they have always been. Both seek 
to effect political change by going over the heads of the masses. 
Greece is in urgent need of a vanguard party--as opposed to the 
toy models of the "Marxist-Leninist" sects. This mailing list does 
not have the power to create such a party by magic but we do have 
the obligation to point out self-defeating tactics. Unless this 
*anti-democratic* tendency of some anarchists to engage in 
firebombing, etc. is repudiated, the movement in Greece will be 
hobbled in the same way that ultraleftism helped crater the 1960s 
radical movement.

Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Greece

2010-05-06 Thread Politicus E.

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 3:44 PM, S. Artesian  wrote:
> Is PASOK the socialist part of Papandreou?

Yes.

epoliticus


Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Greece

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


Is PASOK the socialist part of Papandreou?


 
> My impression is that only two parties voted in support of the
> austerity measures:  PASOK and LAOS (i.e., the neo-fascist party).
> 
> They are the perfect marriage.
> 
> epoliticus
> 



Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Marxism] Productivity and Costs

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


   PRODUCTIVITY AND COSTS
First Quarter 2010, Preliminary

Nonfarm business sector labor productivity increased at a 3.6 percent annual
rate during the first quarter of 2010, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
reported today, with output rising 4.4 percent and hours worked rising 
0.8 percent. (All quarterly percent changes in this release are seasonally
adjusted annual rates.) From the first quarter of 2009 to the first quarter of
2010, output increased 3.1 percent while hours fell 3.0 percent, yielding an 
increase in productivity of 6.3 percent (tables A and 2). This gain in 
productivity from the same quarter a year ago was the largest since output per
hour increased 7.0 percent over the four-quarter period ending in the first 
quarter of 1962. 

Labor productivity, or output per hour, is calculated by dividing an index of
real output by an index of hours of all persons, including employees, 
proprietors, and unpaid family workers. 

Unit labor costs in nonfarm businesses fell 1.6 percent in the first quarter
of 2010, as the 3.6 percent increase in productivity outpaced a 1.9 percent
gain in hourly compensation.  Unit labor costs fell 3.7 percent over the last
four quarters, as the 6.3 percent increase in productivity outpaced a 2.3 
percent rise in hourly compensation (tables A and 2). 

BLS defines unit labor costs as the ratio of hourly compensation to labor
productivity; increases in hourly compensation tend to increase unit labor
costs and increases in output per hour tend to reduce them. 

Manufacturing sector productivity grew 2.5 percent in the first quarter of 
2010, as output rose 7.5 percent and hours worked increased 4.9 percent, the
first increase in hours since the second quarter of 2007.  Gains in 
productivity, output, and hours were each larger in the durable goods sector
than in the nondurable goods sector (tables A, 3, 4 and 5).  Unit labor costs
in manufacturing declined 3.7 percent in the first quarter of 2010 and fell 
6.1 percent over the last four quarters. full at:  
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/prod2.nr0.htm

Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Greece

2010-05-06 Thread Politicus E.

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 3:26 PM, S. Artesian  wrote:
> Anybody have break down of the vote by parties?

My impression is that only two parties voted in support of the
austerity measures:  PASOK and LAOS (i.e., the neo-fascist party).

They are the perfect marriage.

epoliticus


Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Marxism] Analysis of Istanbul May Day demonstration

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


http://www.cpgb.org.uk/article.php?article_id=1003919
Weekly Worker 816 Thursday May 06 2010
Class consciousness rekindled
Esen Uslu reports on the massive May Day demonstration in Istanbul

For the first time since 1978 workers in Turkey celebrated May Day 
2010 by marching to Taksim Square, the traditional rallying point 
of the militant working class. Hundreds of thousands gathered in a 
peaceful, legal rally after decades of bans.

Historically the attitude of various governments towards May Day 
demonstrations has been indicative of their own insecurity and, 
ironically, that applies to the soft Islamists of the AKP 
government. The AKP (Justice and Development Party) is undoubtedly 
under huge pressure and is desperately looking for allies as it 
attempts to resist the pro-junta right.

When the Turkish nationalist bourgeois republic was established in 
1923 amid the ruins of the Ottoman empire, the nascent government 
was in an unenviable position. On the one hand, it was the 
continuation of the military and civilian bureaucracy of Ottoman 
rule and consequently had to bear the weight of the atrocities 
committed against the non-Muslim peoples of the empire: the 1915 
Armenian genocide; the forced dislocation of Greek Orthodox 
Christians from Western Anatolia; and the subsequent mutual 
population exchange between Greece and Turkey.

On the other hand, the new government - located in Anatolia, not 
the industrial and commercial centres, such as Istanbul and Izmir 
- had managed to survive by allying with the Soviet Union, despite 
their mutual dislike. May Day in 1923 was celebrated in Istanbul 
with the participation of workers’ organisations, but in Ankara it 
was organised as an official occasion. And, as the years passed, 
the independent working class movement and trade unions were 
suppressed, and the Kurdish national struggle developed into a 
revolt which was brutally suppressed.

In 1924 holding May Day rallies became an offence punishable by 
long terms of imprisonment. And, when in 1926 Turkey adopted a new 
penal code based on Mussolini’s, involvement in the organisation 
of any independent working class event became punishable by death.

The first May Day rally following half a century of such 
repression was massive. Held in Istanbul in 1976, it was organised 
by the Revolutionary Trade Union Confederation (Disk) with the 
participation of all progressive people. It was an anathema for 
the reactionary and fascist forces.
Bloody May Day

A year later, the 1977 Istanbul May Day rally was brutally 
dispersed by gangs organised and armed by the intelligence arms of 
the state, who fired upon the 500,000 crowd. This caused 
tremendous panic and, as people sought to escape, the security 
forces in their armoured vehicle, with sirens blaring, drove into 
the crowd and launched stun grenades. Thirty-six people were 
killed - crushed under the wheels of the armoured vehicles or 
shot. That operation marked an important milestone, paving the way 
for the military junta to take power in 1980.

Despite all the odds, a similar sized crowd courageously showed 
their defiance by demonstrating on May Day 1978 in the same square 
with renewed determination. The rally was marked by the forceful 
demand of the illegal Communist Party of Turkey for the 
century-old ban on its existence to be lifted.

In early 1979 state-sponsored terrorist atrocities committed 
against Alevis and Kurds in Maras and other cities led to the 
declaration of martial law by the civilian government. Holding a 
May Day rally in Istanbul was prohibited. The trade unions opted 
to hold it instead in Izmir, which was not under martial law at 
the time. Despite the ban the leaders of Workers Party of Turkey 
(TIP) attempted to march to Taksim Square, despite the curfew in 
Istanbul. Dozens of militants were bundled into police vehicles.

In 1980 the trade union centre decided not to hold a single, 
central May Day rally, preferring to hold several rallies in 
provincial centres. However, the masses were already feeling the 
effects of the initial shock waves of the impending catastrophe 
and the rallies were quite small in number. Later in the year the 
military junta took over and banned all May Day rallies without 
exception.

Until 1988 no attempt was made to organise anything on May 1, but 
even in that year things were frustrated by the arrest of the 
trade union organisers. In 1989 police opened fire on small groups 
trying to reach Taksim Square, and one student was killed. In 1990 
a similar attempt was made and one girl was paralysed after being 
shot by the police.

The next attempt to organise a May Day event was made in 1993 and 
for three years very restricted rallies were held in Istanbul in 
different lo

Re: [Marxism] Is firebombing a bank an acceptable tactic?

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


I'm not smearing anyone, and if I gave that impression, then I do apologize.

But that being said, the liberal bourgeoisie are out there wringing their 
hands and shedding tears over this "act of terrorism" by "ultra-left" 
"anarchists" without anyone even knowing who started the fire.


So why would any leftist jump on that bandwagon?  Why would anyone so 
uncritically repeat those assumptions?

I dont understand how it is NOT an ugly smear to assume that this action is 
the action of anarchists, and that anarchists are an, if not THE obstacle, 
to the development of the struggle in Greece, and yet it is any ugly smear 
to say -- arguing that this is a criminal act of irresponsible radical 
merely reproduces the arguments of the bourgeoisie?

Has nothing to do with you personally, Lou, so if I offended you, I 
apologize for offending you,  but I do not apologize for pointing out the 
apparent inconsistency in what does and does not constitute a smear.

- Original Message - 
From: "Louis Proyect"  



Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Marxism] It's not about Greece anymore

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/06/its-not-about-greece-anymore
May 6, 2010, 6:11 am
It’s Not About Greece Anymore
By PETER BOONE AND SIMON JOHNSON

Louisa Gouliamaki/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images Protesters 
at the Acropolis in Athens waved flags and hung banners in front 
of the Parthenon.

Peter Boone is chairman of the charity Effective Intervention and 
a research associate at the Center for Economic Performance at the 
London School of Economics. He is also a principal in Salute 
Capital Management Ltd. Simon Johnson, the former chief economist 
at the International Monetary Fund, is the co-author of “13 Bankers.”

The Greek “rescue” package announced last weekend is dramatic, 
unprecedented and far from enough to stabilize the euro zone.

The Greek government and the European Union leadership, prodded by 
the International Monetary Fund, are finally becoming realistic 
about the dire economic situation in Greece. They have abandoned 
previous rounds of optimistic forecasts and have now admitted to a 
profoundly worse situation. This new program calls for “fiscal 
adjustments” — cuts to the fiscal deficit, mostly through spending 
cuts — totaling 11 percent of gross domestic product in 2010, 4.3 
percent in 2011, and 2 percent in 2012 and 2013. The total 
debt-to-G.D.P. ratio peaks at 149 percent in 2012-13 before 
starting a gentle glide path back down to sanity.

This new program is honest enough to show why it is unlikely to 
succeed.

Daniel Gros, an eminent economist on euro zone issues who is based 
in Brussels, has argued that for each 1 percent of G.D.P. decline 
in Greek government spending, total demand in the country falls by 
2.5 percent of G.D.P.  If the government reduces spending by 15 
percent of G.D.P. — the initial shock to demand could be well over 
30 percent of G.D.P.

Obviously this simple rule does not work with such large numbers, 
but it illustrates that Greece is likely to experience a very 
sharp recession — and there is substantial uncertainty around how 
bad the economy will get.  The program announced last weekend 
assumes the Greek G.D.P. falls by 4 percent this year, then by 
another 2.6 percent in 2011, before recovering to positive growth 
in 2012 and beyond.

Such figures seem extremely optimistic, particularly in the face 
of the civil unrest now sweeping Greece and the deep hostility 
expressed toward the country in some northern European policy circles.

The pattern of growth is critical because, under this program, 
Greece needs to grow out of its debt problem soon. Greece’s 
debt-to-G.D.P. ratio will be a debilitating 145 percent at the end 
of 2011.

Now consider putting more realistic growth figures into the I.M.F. 
forecast for Greece’s economy — e.g., with G.D.P. declining 12 
percent in 2011, then the debt-to-G.D.P. ratio may reach 155 
percent. At these levels, with a 5 percent real interest rate and 
no growth, the country needs a primary surplus at 8 percent of 
G.D.P. to keep the debt-to-G.D.P. ratio stable.  It will be 
nowhere near that level.  The I.M.F. program has Greece running a 
primary budget deficit of around 1 percent of G.D.P. in that year, 
and that assumes a path for Greek growth that can be regarded only 
as an “upside scenario.”

The politics of these implied budget surpluses remains brutal. 
Since most Greek debt is held abroad, roughly 80 percent of the 
budget savings the Greek government makes go straight to Germans, 
the French and other foreign debt holders (mostly banks).  If 
growth turns out poorly, will the Greeks be prepared for 
ever-tougher austerity to pay the Germans? Even if everything goes 
well, Greek citizens seem unlikely to welcome this version of 
their “new normal.”

Last week the European leadership panicked — very late in the day 
— when it realized that the euro zone itself was at risk of a 
meltdown. If the euro zone proves unwilling to protect a member 
like Greece from default, then bond investors will run from 
Portugal and Spain also — if you doubt this, study carefully the 
interlocking debt picture published recently in The New York 
Times.  Higher yields on government debt would have caused 
concerns about potential bank runs in these nations, and then 
spread to more nations in Europe.

When there is such a “run,” it is not clear where it stops.  In 
the hazy distance, Belgium, France, Austria and many others were 
potentially at risk. Even the Germans cannot afford to bail out 
those nations.

Slapped in the face by this ugly scenario, the Europeans decided 
to throw everything they and the I.M.F. had at bailing out Greece. 
  The program as announced has only a small chance of preventing 
eventual Greek bankruptcy, but it may still slow or avert a 
dangerous spiral downward

Re: [Marxism] re : Anarchism and terrorism

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


A generation earlier, the Republicans in Kansas made a clearly "false
flag" attack with a bomb as part of a political attempt to stir up
voters against the insurgent Union Labor Party, which was growing by
leaps and bounds in 1887-88.  The Republicans charged them with being
closet anarchists and then sent a bomb through the railroad express
which blew up at Coffeyville.  To some extent it backfired and helped
fuel successes that led to the emergence of Populism there a few years
later.

On the other hand, the farther people are from these things, the more
they rely on the particular spin

ML


Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Greece

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


Anybody have break down of the vote by parties?  3 members of the socialists 
expelled for abstaining?

Is there a union confederation aligned with the socialists?
- Original Message - 
From: "Politicus E." 
To: "David Schanoes" 
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Greece


> ==
> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> ==
>
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8664161.stm
>
> 
> Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
> Set your options at: 
> http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/sartesian%40earthlink.net 



Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Santos could single-handedly kill Uribism

2010-05-06 Thread Dan Russell

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


This is fascinating and great news...although I do wonder what happened to
Polo Democratico. They seemed to be the rising star of Colombian politics
for a short while...

Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] My pick for best movie of 2010 and I have not even seen it!

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


The only thing missing is Salma Hayek.  And that's quite a lot to be 
missing sorry if she were in it I'd vote with you.  Right now, I'm 
hedging. 



Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Most Anarchists reject left-wing terrorism

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


My impression was always that those anarchists who embraced armed
struggle and propaganda by the deed were most closely related to
revolutionary nationalists of mid-century.  Certainly, moral
justifications of Orsini's attack on Napoleon III became something of
a watershed in moving towards a First International.  In this case, we
are obviously not discussing an attack on a Napoleon III by any people
of the stature of Orsini within the movement

ML


Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] firebombing bank acceptable

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==

Andy wrote:
> I'm not a member of the list, but I' like to know- Is storming the 
> Winter Palace an acceptable tactic?

Of course it was. It was the culmination of one of the deepest and 
most broadly supported revolutionary movements of modern times. 
Any relationship between this and anarchist antics is purely 
coincidental.

Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Is firebombing a bank an acceptable tactic?

2010-05-06 Thread farmela...@juno.com

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==




That was a point made by Christopher
Hitchens in an article, "Wanton acts of usage. 
Terrorism: A cliché in search of a meaning,"
which appeared in Harper's Magazine,
September, 1986.

Since that time, Hitchens seems to
have a change of heart.

As it so happens, I have a PDF of
that article for those who are interested.

Jim Farmelant
http://independent.academia.edu/JimFarmelant

-- Original Message --
From: Jay Moore 
To: farmela...@juno.com
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Is firebombing a bank an acceptable tactic?
Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 14:47:11 -0400

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


"Terrorism" is a word that is very hard to define with any universal 
applicability.  Moreover, the term has been "captured" by the ruling 
class for those it wants to stigmatize and kill. Needless to say, they 
don't consider Hiroshima or carpet bombing Vietnam or drones in Pakistan 
"terrorism."  So I tend to avoid the term.


Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/farmelantj%40juno.com



Penny Stock Jumping 2000%
Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4be3149e6e83f35c292st05vuc


Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Is firebombing a bank an acceptable tactic?

2010-05-06 Thread Jay Moore

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


Hmm. . . Didn't the Narodniks use that term about themselves, as some 
ultras did in the French Revolution?  On the other:  I am sympathetic to 
one's aims and not to the other's aims, but I don't see why blowing up 
French cafes in Algers is not "terrorist" while smashing into the World 
Trade Center is "terrorist."  By which definition?

> We use it here in the same way that the Marxists have always used
> it, as a way to describe the Narodniks et al. It is not a question
> of morality but of strategy and tactics. For example, nobody here
> would describe the FLN as terrorist when it set off bombs in
> Algeria. On the other hand, the attacks on 9/11 were.
>



Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Is firebombing a bank an acceptable tactic?

2010-05-06 Thread Dan Russell

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


Anarchist is as broad a term as socialist. There are plenty of anarchists
who I would gladly fight alongside and who I'm sure are horrified at the
thought of someone identifying as one encouraging firebombings. While it is
certainly a good sign that the bank employees union has blamed the
government - and rightfully so - this doesn't mean that we shouldn't
criticize the provocateurs - whether police or not - who try to hijack
popular demonstrations and radicalize them through these ridiculous antics.
Similar antidemocratic, voluntarist actions here in the US have threatened
to seriously undermine struggles against budget/education cuts.

Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Is firebombing a bank an acceptable tactic?

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==

S. Artesian wrote:
> Why would someone claiming to be a leftists want to assume a position that 
> is nothing other than parroting the bourgeoisie?  Unless of course, there 
> was a special cracker to be obtained.

This is an ugly smear. I don't expect Sartesian to apologize for 
it but it should *not be repeated*.

Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Marxism] Most Anarchists reject left-wing terrorism

2010-05-06 Thread Dan

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


MOST Anarchists have always rejected "adventurism"/"propaganda by the
deed"/"terrorism"/"the armed struggle" as conter-productive.

However, regrettably, some Anarchists have advocated "propaganda by the
deed", completely disconnected from the class-stuggle since the 19th
Century. These groups were responsible for the assasination of a Russian
Tsar, a French President, an American president, and countless wealthy
magnates from the 1880s onwards. In the process, they initiated a global
anti-Anarchist hysteria. Their reasoning ? Well, those people were
waging a war on workers so it was time for them to "feel the
consequences of their actions". Such Anarchists saw themselves as
responding to "the violence of Capitalism" through "the targeted
assassination of its leaders".
Of course, the result was a terrific backlash against Anarchism and the
association of Anarchism with mindless violence that continues to this
day. Many within the Anarchist movement tried to dissuade their comrades
from such folly, given that the bourgeois press immediately produced the
stereotype of the "Anarchist" making bombs in his lair and nihilisticly
taking pleasure in mayham and nihilism.
The Anarchist movement, in France, Germany or Latin America, was utterly
destroyed by the ensuing repression. What had been a mass movement lost
a lot of sympathy from the working class all because of these fringe
groups (most of them, and this has only become known since the opening
of French police archives in 1991, were actually manipulated by the
security forces in an effort to discredit the union struggles for the
8-hour working day). The Anarchist movement never recovered its mass
appeal once the bourgeois press had durably associated it with murder,
bank robbery (la bande a Bonnot) and setting of bombs in public streets.
In the 70s, in Italy, France and Germany, some groups resorted to the
same tactics. Action Direct shot the CEO of Renault in the 1980s, after
he had sacked tens of thousands of workers, claiming that "we are
bringing the class struggle against the Capitalist elite to its very own
doorstep, and in so doing we are showing the working class that the time
has come to wage open warfare on the exploitative class". They were
actually dismayed when the leaders of most French unions showed up at
the funeral.

Of course Anarchists, class-conscious Anarchists, those who work within
Unionism to bring the working class to a higher level of consciousness,
completely disavow adventurism.

On the other hand, Anarchists consider "insurrection" as being quite
different in character from left-wing terrorism. In an insurrection,
large segments of the working class clash with the security forces. In
such a situation, the bourgeois media always try to qualify such acts as
"vandalism" , "terrorism" and "common criminality which must be punished
to the full extent of the law". 

This is a fundamental difference in the way violence is construed, which
can be found in the works of Kropotkin and Malatesta.



In an "insurrection", disgrunteled workers clash with the security
forces. 





Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Is firebombing a bank an acceptable tactic?

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


Terrorist acts do NOT always work against the proletariat.State 
terrorism on the part of the revolutionary government against the whites, 
and the families of the white Russians worked for the proletariat.

And before that, since we all seem to endorse the Union in the US Civil War, 
Benjamin Butler was labeled the "beast" by that flower of Southern gentility 
after taking New Orleans and instituting Union military rule.  He was not 
adverse to seizing property of "suspected"-- not convicted--supporters of 
the Confederacy, including the property of foreign banks.  And he announced 
that attacks on Union troops would be punished as acts of treason.  He 
wasn't afraid to act on that either.

Certainly being in power makes terrorism a bit more effective than not being 
in power, but being in or out of power, is a temporal distinction, not a 
programmatic one.

The union that represents these workers has squarely placed responsibility 
for the deaths at the feet of the police and the bank itself.  Why would 
anyone want to divert focus from that properly assessed responsibility and 
somehow make this the irresponsible, careless, callous, act of anarchists. 
Why would someone claiming to be a leftists want to assume a position that 
is nothing other than parroting the bourgeoisie?  Unless of course, there 
was a special cracker to be obtained.




Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Marxism] [Chicago] May 22: Profits or the Planet: Capitalism and Ecological Crisis

2010-05-06 Thread Dan Russell

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


*Profits or the Planet: Capitalism and Ecological
Crisis*

*Save the date, RSVP
Here*!
*
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=120503507975624&ref=ts

Saturday May 22, 7PM at Casa **Aztlán** - 1831 South Racine Avenue, Chicago,
IL*

A discussion with Chris Williams followed by a fundraising party for Socialism
2010 .

Author of Haymarket's  upcoming 'Ecology and
Socialism ,' Chris
Williams is a long-time environmental activist and Vice President of the
Union of Adjunct Faculty at Pace University, where he teaches courses in
energy and the environment, physics, and chemistry. He is also the chair of
the science department at Packer Collegiate Institute.

http://www.isreview.org/issues/62/feat-hothouseearth.shtml
http://www.isreview.org/issues/64/feat-hothouse2.shtml
http://www.isreview.org/issues/68/feat-overpopulation.shtml
http://www.haymarketbooks.org/pb/Ecology-and-Socialism

[image: EcologySocialism_toHaymarket_sm.jpg]
 [image:
logo.jpg]


It is an appropriate time to be talking about environmental activism: In the
past month, a coal mine and oil rig disaster have exposed both the human and
environmental toll of capitalism's relentless drive for profits. The gulf
disaster - which has BP and Haliburton's bloody, oily fingerprints all over
it - is quickly being acknowledged as one of the worst in US history. Oil
continues to flow and begins to blanket the US shoreline as officials admit
that it will take months just to stop the leak. Could this be the
Proposition 8 or Arizona moment for the environmental movement?

After the debacle at the Copenhagen climate conference in December, it has
become increasingly clear that governing elites are incapable of offering
real solutions to climate change, species extinction, deforestation and a
host of other pressing environmental issues unless confronted with a massive
movement for socio-ecological justice. This book focuses on how we can build
such a movement and avoid crossing planetary thresholds through a study of
real solutions possible right now and what it would take to get them.

While we work on building broad movements to attain short-term goals to slow
ecological devastation, we need a long-term vision for a different world. A
world based on equality, democracy and ecological sustainability where
things are produced not because a tiny minority makes money, but because all
humans need them. This book seeks to explore what Marx, Engels and
subsequent socialists had to say about sustainability to offer us some clues
as to what such a world might look like.

[image: socialism2010_logo.gif] 

*Socialism 2010: Ideas for Changing the World - June
17-20*

Chris will be joined by fellow environmental activists Heather Rogers and
Ian Angus, as well as other activists from around the world in more than 100
workshops to discuss how we can build the kinds of movements that can change
society and create the kind of equal, just, and sustainable world that we
all want and need. Funds raised at the afterparty will go towards
scholarships for those who cannot afford conference registration.

For more information please see ChicagoSocialists.org

Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] My pick for best movie of 2010 and I have not even seen it!

2010-05-06 Thread Ernest Leif

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


One should actually sit through Gran Torino because it shows us (not that
many on this list don't know or have not seen Birth of a Nation) that a
movie can be both well crafted and reactionary.


On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Louis Proyect  wrote:

> ==
> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> ==
>
>
> sha...@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Picking a movie one hasen't seen...reminds me of Norman Mailer's swan
> song
> > as a regular columnist for the Village Voice. He reviewed a movie he
> hadn't
> >  seen, admitted it in his review and got a response from readers who were
> > rather  appalled. He recounts this in "Advertisements for Myself," I
> believe.
> > But  I  generally have to agree with his approach which is consistent
> with
> > so  much modern political communication. Why read something or see
> something
> > before  you comment on it?
>
> I imagine that most people are aware that I am in the habit of
> giving movies terrible reviews after seeing only 5 or 10 minutes
> of them. That used to drive one ex-subscriber who shall go
> nameless crazy. Life is too short to sit through Gran Torino and
> that is that.
>
> 
> Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
> Set your options at:
> http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/ernestleif%40gmail.com
>

Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Greece

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==

Politicus E. wrote:
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8664161.stm
> 

There is the possibility that the Greek revolt will be repeated in 
  all of the PIIGS countries, as well as Britain that has a huge 
debt and is facing austerity under any government that gets 
elected. This will most certainly provoke new explosions and a 
real momentum for the left to act in concert across borders. That 
being the case, Marxmail can provide a very useful function by 
allowing Marxists in various countries to exchange ideas and 
information. As I remember back to 1965, when I graduated college, 
things can move very swiftly once the old mole comes out of 
his/her burrow. Keep your powder dry--speaking metaphorically.

Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] My pick for best movie of 2010 and I have not even seen it!

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==

sha...@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Picking a movie one hasen't seen...reminds me of Norman Mailer's swan song  
> as a regular columnist for the Village Voice. He reviewed a movie he hadn't 
>  seen, admitted it in his review and got a response from readers who were 
> rather  appalled. He recounts this in "Advertisements for Myself," I believe. 
> But  I  generally have to agree with his approach which is consistent with 
> so  much modern political communication. Why read something or see something 
> before  you comment on it?

I imagine that most people are aware that I am in the habit of 
giving movies terrible reviews after seeing only 5 or 10 minutes 
of them. That used to drive one ex-subscriber who shall go 
nameless crazy. Life is too short to sit through Gran Torino and 
that is that.

Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Greece

2010-05-06 Thread Politicus E.

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8664161.stm


Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] My pick for best movie of 2010 and I have not even seen it!

2010-05-06 Thread Bhaskar Sunkara

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==

And so the timeless battle between the ironic and the literal mind rages
on...

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 2:10 PM,  wrote:

>  Why read something or see something
> before  you comment on it?
> 
>
>

Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] My pick for best movie of 2010 and I have not even seen it!

2010-05-06 Thread Shacht

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


Picking a movie one hasen't seen...reminds me of Norman Mailer's swan song  
as a regular columnist for the Village Voice. He reviewed a movie he hadn't 
 seen, admitted it in his review and got a response from readers who were 
rather  appalled. He recounts this in "Advertisements for Myself," I believe. 
But  I  generally have to agree with his approach which is consistent with 
so  much modern political communication. Why read something or see something 
before  you comment on it?

Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] My pick for best movie of 2010 and I have not even seen it!

2010-05-06 Thread Shacht

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==




Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Is firebombing a bank an acceptable tactic?

2010-05-06 Thread Nestor Gorojovsky

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


Now, wait a minute Jay.

Since I have tried to remain as cold-minded as ever on the three deaths 
and the fire to the Marfin Bank, we should not forget that actions of 
terrorist character always (ALWAYS) work against the interests of the 
working class. And setting a bank ablaze IS terrorism, in the Socialist 
meaning of the term.

Moreover, if innocent people die.

There has been a good deal of bourgeois responsibility this time, if the 
"letter from a bank employee" is true to facts. But this does not imply 
that rejecting terrorism implies to automatically becoming a "rotten 
socialdemocrat" and a shill for the bourgeoisie.



Jay Moore escribió:
> ==
> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> ==
> 
> 
> These issues have been debated on this List before. No doubt, 
> ultra-leftist adventurism is a genuine problem from time to time and 
> fire-bombing a bank (and killing innocent people in the process) may 
> certainly not be the best tactic for advancing the revolutionary cause. 
> However, I can’t help wondering why every time something like this comes 
> up, Louis rushes to denounce it. A far greater problem for the left is 
> getting sucked into the morass of bourgeois electoral politics. That was 
> the death of the Sixties Movement, for instance. I know Louis blames the 
> Weathermen. But far worse than their take-over of SDS was the “right 
> deviation,” if you want to call it that, with all of those people, 
> including some who called themselves “revolutionaries,” rushing to 
> support McGovern as a “tactic” and then ending up in the embrace of the 
> Democratic Party – the New Left joining there with much of the Old 
> Commie Left. Illusions about liberals (or the Social Dems in Europe) -- 
> and about the nature of the bourgeois state and its "legality" -- are 
> far more significant, and important for us to address here, than pulling 
> out hairs over a few anarchists or "black-blockers."
> 
> Move on!
> Jay
> 
> 
> Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
> Set your options at: 
> http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/nmgoro%40gmail.com
> 



Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] My pick for best movie of 2010 and I have not even seen it!

2010-05-06 Thread Ernest Leif

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


Considering that it's is a Rodriguez film, this "viral campaign" will
probably be the best thing about the movie. But yes, it's very well done.

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Richard Seymour <
leninstombb...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> ==
> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> ==
>
>
> On 06/05/2010 18:14, Louis Proyect wrote:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmjcFBquzo4
> >
>
> That is hilarious!
>
> --
> *Richard Seymour*
>
> Writer and blogger
>
> Email: leninstombb...@googlemail.com
>
> Website: http://www.leninology.blogspot.com
>
> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/leninology
>
> Wiki: 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Seymour_(writer)
>
> Book:
>
> http://www.versobooks.com/books/nopqrs/s-titles/seymour_r_the_liberal_defense_of_murder.shtml
>
> 
> Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
> Set your options at:
> http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/ernestleif%40gmail.com
>

Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Is firebombing a bank an acceptable tactic?

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


Jay Moore wrote:
> These issues have been debated on this List before. No doubt, 
> ultra-leftist adventurism is a genuine problem from time to time and 
> fire-bombing a bank (and killing innocent people in the process) may 
> certainly not be the best tactic for advancing the revolutionary cause. 
> However, I can’t help wondering why every time something like this comes 
> up, Louis rushes to denounce it. 

I am not in the business of denouncing stupid, self-defeating 
tactics when they are not occurring. I have much better things to 
do with my time. I was busy preparing a post on Kemal and Lenin 
when I had to put the killings of 3 workers on the front burner.

> A far greater problem for the left is 
> getting sucked into the morass of bourgeois electoral politics. That was 
> the death of the Sixties Movement, for instance. I know Louis blames the 
> Weathermen. But far worse than their take-over of SDS was the “right 
> deviation,” if you want to call it that, with all of those people, 
> including some who called themselves “revolutionaries,” rushing to 
> support McGovern as a “tactic” and then ending up in the embrace of the 
> Democratic Party – the New Left joining there with much of the Old 
> Commie Left. 

Actually the Weathermen and the leftists for McGovern (or 
McCarthy) phenomena are dialectically interrelated. Frustration 
with the failure of "peace candidates" made SDS'ers go haywire.

> Illusions about liberals (or the Social Dems in Europe) -- 
> and about the nature of the bourgeois state and its "legality" -- are 
> far more significant, and important for us to address here, than pulling 
> out hairs over a few anarchists or "black-blockers."

A few? If only that were so...


Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] My pick for best movie of 2010 and I have not even seen it!

2010-05-06 Thread Richard Seymour

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


On 06/05/2010 18:14, Louis Proyect wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmjcFBquzo4
>   

That is hilarious!

-- 
*Richard Seymour*

Writer and blogger

Email: leninstombb...@googlemail.com

Website: http://www.leninology.blogspot.com

Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/leninology

Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Seymour_(writer)

Book:
http://www.versobooks.com/books/nopqrs/s-titles/seymour_r_the_liberal_defense_of_murder.shtml


Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Is firebombing a bank an acceptable tactic?

2010-05-06 Thread Jay Moore

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


These issues have been debated on this List before. No doubt, 
ultra-leftist adventurism is a genuine problem from time to time and 
fire-bombing a bank (and killing innocent people in the process) may 
certainly not be the best tactic for advancing the revolutionary cause. 
However, I can’t help wondering why every time something like this comes 
up, Louis rushes to denounce it. A far greater problem for the left is 
getting sucked into the morass of bourgeois electoral politics. That was 
the death of the Sixties Movement, for instance. I know Louis blames the 
Weathermen. But far worse than their take-over of SDS was the “right 
deviation,” if you want to call it that, with all of those people, 
including some who called themselves “revolutionaries,” rushing to 
support McGovern as a “tactic” and then ending up in the embrace of the 
Democratic Party – the New Left joining there with much of the Old 
Commie Left. Illusions about liberals (or the Social Dems in Europe) -- 
and about the nature of the bourgeois state and its "legality" -- are 
far more significant, and important for us to address here, than pulling 
out hairs over a few anarchists or "black-blockers."

Move on!
Jay


Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Marxism] Yassamine Mather on the new left in Iran

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


Q: Can you explain more about the New Left which has been growing 
since the 1990s?

A: First of all, the older Left defined itself in term of the 
Soviet Union. The influence of the Bolshevik Revolution in Iran 
was quite serious. The definitions of the post-68 Left in Iran 
were demarcated in terms of how people viewed the Soviet Union, 
and later it also became about the Sino-Soviet split, and even 
within Maoist groups one could find four of five different -- 
deeply contradictory -- positions in terms of the cultural 
revolution and so on. Today we are seeing new formations setting 
up strategic demands for the Iranian working-class that are free 
of those ideological tags. You also see a whole generation of 
Iranians who did not experience 1979 and the early 1980s. I should 
add that the whole 1980s were intertwined with the Soviet Union 
and some groups supported the Islamic regime because the Soviet 
Union said it was imperialist and vice versa. Some of these 
differences became extremely violent, which had a tremendous 
effect in the 1980s.

The generation born in the 1980s is free of that. That generation 
is what I would call the New Iranian Left. Many of these people 
were politicized in the mid to late 1990s or in the early 2000s if 
they are younger. Some of them are people who were associated at 
one time or another with the reformist Islamist movement. The 
failure of the Mohammad Khantami presidency, in terms of 
delivering tangible political changes, radicalized those of the 
younger generation. I remember in 1998-9 a lot of Iranian students 
that I spoke to, some of whom I met in Turkey, were all talking 
about Karl Popper. This philosopher interested them at the time 
because political repression in Iran had created a sense that one 
needed to explore the question of democracy. At this time, not 
just western leaders but also people in Iran, were also talking 
about "The End of History." The idea that the collapse of the 
Soviet Union was equivalent to the end of socialism. What changed 
that was the war. I really think that the United States by 
invading Iraq and Afghanistan radicalized a generation of Iranians 
who had become pro-democracy but then took a look at the 
devastation super-power democratic countries can impose on the 
region. This made them look at other ideologies. Suddenly people 
who had been previously talking about Popper were asking about 
Marx. They were looking for the latest discussions on Imperialism. 
People were asking about the economic crisis. They were talking 
about feudal capitalism. I am always impressed how in the middle 
of protesting this generation spends a great deal of time 
discussing and arguing.

full: 
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tehranbureau/2010/05/a-new-left-emerging.html
 



Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Marxism] Statement by Greek supporters of Alan Woods

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


Greece: An earth shattering strike while reaction takes advantage 
of three murders
Written by Marxistiki Foni Editorial Board Thursday, 06 May 2010

The constant attacks on the Greek working class over recent months 
have finally brought the situation to boiling point. The workers 
have had enough! They are not prepared to pay for a crisis which 
is not of their making. Yesterday Greece was totally paralysed as 
the workers and youth came out massively in protest. The tragic 
killing of three bank workers, however, is being used to distract 
attention away from this impressive show of strength by the Greek 
working class.

Yesterday, Greece officially entered a new era of class struggle. 
The incessant attacks against the living standards of the working 
class on the part of the capitalists have provoked a massive and 
militant movement.

Yesterday’s general strike was the first act of this movement. 
Greece was paralyzed, but not only in the public sector as in the 
previous general strikes of February and March, but also in the 
private sector. Over 150,000 workers participated in the strike in 
Athens, which was characterized by a great feeling of 
radicalisation and anger. Many of those taking part in the Athens 
strike said that this mobilisation was equalled only by the great 
general strike against the “Yiannitsi measures” (in 2001, the 
PASOK government proposed a law against social security, which was 
ultimately withdrawn due to a massive general strike). Huge and 
militant demonstrations took place in 68 cities in total, of which 
the demonstrations in Thessaloniki, Patras, Herakleion and 
Ioannina were especially massive.

The immense anger towards the latest offensive against the living 
standards of the working class was expressed in the mobilisations 
organised by GSEE-ADEDY (the main trade union confederations) and 
by PAME (the Communist Party’s faction in the trade unions) in 
slogans such as “No sacrifices for the plutocracy” and “PASOK-New 
Democracy: austerity – unemployment – terrorism”. The growing 
anger against the trade union bureaucracy was reflected in the 
constant and intense booing during the speech given by the GSEE 
president, Υannis Panagopoulos, during the GSEE-ADEDY rally in 
central Athens. It is also to be noted that during the protests, 
we witnessed a spontaneous, aggressive mood against the oppressive 
police forces, the banks and public buildings among many 
protesters, which clearly shows that “boiling point” has been 
reached in the mass consciousness.

However, unfortunately, this decisive fact of massive and militant 
demonstrations in Athens and all over the country was overshadowed 
by the tragic killing of three employees, a man and two women, in 
a branch of the “MARFIN” bank due to arson caused by “Molotov 
cocktails”. This was a criminal act against young white-collar 
workers, working in a branch where the bosses’ terror is huge and 
where the workers are forced to work under the fear of losing 
their jobs. These unfortunate workers could not get out of the 
building, due to the criminal indifference of the bank manager, 
who did not guarantee either fire safety measures or an emergency 
exit. Moreover, questions have been asked as to the reason for the 
passive stance of the police which, despite its large presence in 
the demonstration, did not take measures to stop the burning of a 
bank, which was working normally in the centre of Athens and was 
situated near the route of a demonstration mainly directed against 
the predatory role of the banks.

No one can say with absolute certainty whether this act of arson 
was an expression of blind, criminal and desperate violence on the 
part of the anarchists or a well organised provocation by the 
forces of state oppression, in order to slander the workers’ 
movement. If we take account of the general make up of the 
demonstrations, together with the tragic deaths in “MARFIN”, the 
many attacks on stores in Thessaloniki and the accusations made by 
the General Secretary of the KKE (the Communist Party) about 
provocation by members of the fascist “Chrysi Avgi”, organisation 
who were holding PAME banners, it is possible that an extensive 
plan of provocations was orchestrated by the State.

However, even if these events were not an organised act of 
provocation, they objectively acted as one. They catastrophically 
undermine a grand movement at its birth, because they serve to 
overshadow the event of the mass general strike, they terrorise 
workers, preventing them from participating in the movement, while 
at the same time sanctifying the forthcoming escalation of police 
violence.

The government and the bourgeois media were eager to exploit this 
“manna from heaven”. They brought up again the

[Marxism] A gusher from the newspaper of record

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


Counterpunch May 6, 2010
Downplaying a Catastrophe
A Gusher From the Newspaper of Record

By RICHARD WARD

A small example of what passes for journalism at our paper of 
record. A couple of days ago I sent a comment in response to an 
article written by John M. Broder and Tom Zeller Jr. (“Gulf Oil 
Spill is Bad, but How Bad?” 5/3/10) that sounded like it could 
have come from the BP public relations department, downplaying the 
effects of the blowout in The Gulf of Mexico. Arguably the worst 
part of the article was a gross factual error stating that the 
Iraqis fleeing Kuwait in 1991 released 36 billion gallons of crude 
into the Persian Gulf. My comment: “Whoa! The Iraqis released 
nowhere near 36 billion gallons of crude in the Persian Gulf. The 
highest estimates are 500 million gallons. Somebody needs to 
activate the NYT’s fact checker. This is a real gusher. What’s 
going on here?”

The Times did not print this. A few hours later I tried again. 
Same comment, same result. Either they chose not to publish it or 
it wasn’t getting through. The next day I tried again, a sort of 
experiment, commenting on another article about the blowout, this 
time adopting a decidedly different tone: “Let's all calm down and 
get a grip. In three weeks all this will be a memory. The best 
minds in the business are dealing with this. Relax people. Kudos 
to the Times for presenting us with a balanced point of view.” Not 
only did they print the comment, they put it in their highlight 
section, “a selection of the most interesting and thoughtful 
comments that represent a range of views.”

The New York Times has been downplaying the seriousness of the BP 
blowout. No correction has been offered concerning the 36 billion 
figure. The Times has consistently supported Obama’s offshore 
drilling proposal. Recent headlines sound like a public relations 
barrage from the oil industry: “The Spill vs. a Need to Drill,” 
“Tax on Oil May Help Pay for Cleanup,” “New Technique Holds Hope 
for Oil Spill Cleanup,” “Seafood Industry Fights Public Perception.”

That the Times insists on euphemistically referring to the 
catastrophe in the Gulf as a “spill” and not a blowout or gusher 
is consistent with its soft-peddling of the crisis. Is it possible 
that BP, one of the world’s largest corporations and most lavish 
contributors to politicians, including Obama and Mary Landrieu, 
has some influence with the Sulzberger family? Is it possible BP 
CEOs have ever had a jolly drink or two with Carlos Slim, the 
paper’s largest shareholder and richest person in the world, with 
his well-documented interests in the offshore oil industry? Just 
asking.

It’s long since been news that the news that’s fit is only the 
news that fits the class and political bias of the newspaper of 
record. It’s the Sulzbergers’ and Slim’s paper and they can say 
whatever the hell they want. Too bad it gets away with 36 
billion-gallon gushers on a regular basis while gullible liberals 
drink it down like carrot juice.

Richard Ward lives in New Mexico. He can be reached at: 
r.war...@gmail.com




Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Marxism] My pick for best movie of 2010 and I have not even seen it!

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmjcFBquzo4


Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Marxism] A comment on the Occupied London blog

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==

http://www.occupiedlondon.org/blog/2010/05/05/an-employee-of-marfin-bank-speaks-on-tonights-tragic-deaths-in-athens/

SOMEONE FROM GREECE wrote:

Amongst you ‘greek anarchists’ there exist people who justify
violence and call for acts like burning banks (or the offices of
‘Tiresias’, for that matter). Who have been saying that such acts
can be justified in “some cases”, when they are “symbolic”, when
they target capitalism and its symbols. And supporters of such
“symbolic actions” have been increasingly vocal after December
‘08. Any visitor can just browse this blog and read your previous
posts – scripta manent.

If these 3 people had not been killed today, you would be
feauturing pictures of the burnt bank on your blog. Along with
triumphant slogans, trying to convince the world that the
‘collapse of capitalism’ is imminent and that it will start from
Greece. Along with a the description of a little chat you had with
a taxi driver, on your way to your friend’s house, to prove your
point.

But this time 3 people have been killed.

They were killed because the bank was set on fire. Because someone
thought: “Let’s do something symbolic”.

And he/she did it – a person set the bank on fire; neither
capitalism, nor its management.

When Kougias is defending the cop who murdered a 15-year old boy,
his arguments are pathetic. When you try to change the subject
(“translate this, instead of thinking about the anarchists’ stance
on violence and what this stance has caused”) your arguments are
pathetic. You are using plain-old shyster tricks, Kougias’ tricks.

Never mind, we got it. Korkoneas never apologised for
Grigoropoulos’ murder. The unknown hooded person who set 3 people
on fire will never apologise for their murder.

PS1: Let’s see how much time this comment stays up!

PS2: The above is my personal opinion; I’m not brainwashed by
Papandreou, the media or anyone else. And I don’t think anyone has
the right to call me brainwashed, just because they happen to
disagree with me.

PS3: I hate anonymity; but I don’t want to reveal my identity to
people who might one day “symbolically” beat me or burn me, just
because they happen to disagree with me.

Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at:
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Marxism] Fwd: [AL-AWDA-News] Dr. Mazin Qumsieh Arrested in Walaja village today

2010-05-06 Thread Thomas Bias

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


I'm sure many of you have met and worked with Dr. Qumsiyeh.---Tom

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Abu Saliba" 
> Date: May 6, 2010 8:07:56 AM EDT
> To: al-awda-n...@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [AL-AWDA-News] Dr. Mazin Qumsieh Arrested in Walaja  
> village today
>
> Greetings and Salaam,
>
> Dr. Mazin with two other activists from Al Waljeh village were  
> arrested today trying to stop the bulldozers from confiscating the  
> village land. There were taken to an unknown place. I will keep you  
> all posted. Salaam
>
> George Rishmawi
>
> __._,_.___


Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Marxism] The Return of Hooverian Economics

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


The real story behind state budget cuts:

http://www.zcommunications.org/the-return-of-hooverian-economics-the-real-story-behind-the-state-budget-cuts-by-anthony-dimaggio


Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] NYT on Greece

2010-05-06 Thread Erik Toren

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


Thomas L. Friedman of the NYT chimed in to day on ABC to let us know
who was behind the problem in Greece's crisis


The Workers.


Quote of choice:

"Women are able to retire at 55! There is no more Tooth Fairy".

 You Mr. Friedman!

Erik


Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Marxism] NYT on Greece