Re: [Marxism] Doug Henwood debates rightwing asshole on the crisis
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 10/21/2010 1:28 AM, johnaimani wrote: > A social-democrat versus an Adam Smith libertarian. This last named > because, in addition to his "invisible Hand" pronouncements, at two > points (21:25 and 25:40) Schiff makes Smith's (Ricardo's, Marx's) case > that labor is the source of all value (esp profits). > > Was disappointed that Henwood only made the the Keynesian/Roosevelt case > for public works jobs. Further he conceded that small manufacturing > won't come back to the US. Why not? The advantage that emerging > nations have in this capacity is not a natural comparative one, it is > the result of the fact that labor rates are 1/10 or so that of the US. > There is no reason that we should not manufacture televisions, toasters, > computers, etc here and put our workers back to work. Why should they > be manufactured elsewhere when that implicits the added, and > unnecessary, burden of transportation costs? > > Where was the argument for communism? Full employment. Living wages > (until scarcity been overcome by the rise in productivity of an > unchained workforce). Capitalist Keynesianism, no matter how well > intentioned, if successful only recreates the conditions of our > wage-slavery. And then, only at a cost of a down-the-road and > exacerbated crisis, certain to follow, as the fiscal policies enacted > come into conflict with the internal dynamics of a system bent on its > own destruction. On this last see Grossman-The Law of the > Accumulation..." or Marx-"Capital Vol3" Chap XV, Sec 3. > Doug responds: When you're in a debate like that, you have to tune your rhetoric to the audience. The audience for the Real News includes a lot of fairly mainstream people. If I started talking like a Red, they would have stopped listening. I realize it may be offensive to revolutionary purists to do this, but don't forget: 1) even my social democratic agenda is way out of the realm of the possible in this crazy country, and 2) my interlocutor already thought I was a Bolshevik anyway (I'm not kidding). Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Doug Henwood debates rightwing asshole on the crisis
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 11:59 AM, Louis Proyect wrote: > http://www.therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=5749 > > A social-democrat versus an Adam Smith libertarian. This last named because, in addition to his "invisible Hand" pronouncements, at two points (21:25 and 25:40) Schiff makes Smith's (Ricardo's, Marx's) case that labor is the source of all value (esp profits). Was disappointed that Henwood only made the the Keynesian/Roosevelt case for public works jobs. Further he conceded that small manufacturing won't come back to the US. Why not? The advantage that emerging nations have in this capacity is not a natural comparative one, it is the result of the fact that labor rates are 1/10 or so that of the US. There is no reason that we should not manufacture televisions, toasters, computers, etc here and put our workers back to work. Why should they be manufactured elsewhere when that implicits the added, and unnecessary, burden of transportation costs? Where was the argument for communism? Full employment. Living wages (until scarcity been overcome by the rise in productivity of an unchained workforce). Capitalist Keynesianism, no matter how well intentioned, if successful only recreates the conditions of our wage-slavery. And then, only at a cost of a down-the-road and exacerbated crisis, certain to follow, as the fiscal policies enacted come into conflict with the internal dynamics of a system bent on its own destruction. On this last see Grossman-The Law of the Accumulation..." or Marx-"Capital Vol3" Chap XV, Sec 3. JAI Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Doug Henwood debates rightwing asshole on the crisis
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I made myself watch this. Schiff is exactly as you describe him: a horrible human. I did though enjoy the hatred that flickered out ever so often from Doug's eyes at the more outrageous claims that Schiff made. The latter's recycling of the myth that people won't work because there is a dole provoked some of Doug's most penetrating stares. But Schiff is just blithely heading on over the cliff while a true moderate like Doug is trying to persuade him and his fellow capitalists to be more responsible for all our sakes. Seems a wasted endeavour. comradely Gary . comradely Gary On 10/21/10, Louis Proyect wrote: > == > Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > == > > > http://www.therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=5749 > > > Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu > Set your options at: > http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/gary.maclennan1%40gmail.com > Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
