Re: MD: Napster..off topic still!
las wrote: I guess the best way to put it is that the majority of people who use Napster aren't doing so solley for the purpose of getting totally free music. They would be will to pay a modest fee. Don't forget that these downloads are going to be of varied quality: CD quality since they are compresssed. So I don't think that they are worth paying an excessive amount for. As an occasional Napster user whose friends are also Napster users, I disagree. We do it soley for the purpose of getting totally free music. I would not be willing to pay a modest fee. My girlfriend has stated that she wouldn't either. I can't vouch for my friends, but I doubt they would be willing to pay a modest fee either. I agree with Dan, Napster is primarily for "stealing" music. That's what I and everyone I know uses it for. I know that's probably what 99.9% of all Napster users used it for as well. I don't feel bad about it, because it doesn't really FEEL like stealing. When I get an MP3, I DUPLICATED it. I didn't actually TAKE it. The original is still there, right where I left it. Only now I have a duplicate of it on my machine. I know in the official definition, the duplication of an intellectual medium is equal to stealing, but it's difficult for me to associate the words "stealing" and "theft" with something as intangible like recordable sound. Another reason I don't feel bad? Obviously I didn't like the rest of the band's music well enough to buy the CD... perhaps they are a "one hit wonder", or perhaps they only have one song that is a hit with ME. I'm not going to waste my money on a $13-15 CD if I only like 4 minutes of it, so I download it for free. How can I do this guilt-free? Because I was NOT going to purchase the CD no matter what. I had no intention of ever purchasing it. Even if MP3's didn't exist, I was not going to buy the CD anyway. I would have either a) recorded it off the radio, b) recorded it off a friend's CD, or c) lived without it. So my downloading one of the band's MP3's doesn't mean they lost ANY potential profit. Another reason - Digital Audio Tax. I record my MP3's to MD, and with every blank MD I buy, I've paid a percentage to the Digital Audio Tax. This tax supposedly goes to the recording industry, so in a way, I feel like I've ALREADY paid for the right to fill my 74-minute MD full of any tunes I choose, to the very last minute. Lastly, my number one reason I can download MP3's guilt-free - most people are downloading MP3's that are from popular bands (or once popular bands). At least that's the case with my friends and myself. Most of the time, I'm downloading Top 40 stuff. When these people can drive around in $645,000 turbo Bentley's, live in multi-million dollar luxury mansions, and blow money like it grows on trees, I really don't feel like I'm taking food out of their mouths when I download the one or two hits that I actually like. IMO, the entertainment industry is big and bloated as it is. People who save lives don't make as much money in their lifetime compared to some of the most popular "artists" and big shots in the music industry. Take a look at some of the music bigshots today... Britney Spears, Backstreet Boys, N-sync... do you see any of them starving because of Napster? Hell no! They're making more money than ever. I'll bet they make more money individually than what goes into heart disease and cancer research... and which would be more beneficial to mankind? H. Chances are, the music bigshots make more money in a day than any one of the Napster users will make in his/her lifetime. These popular groups are obviously doing well despite the fact that millions of computer users have downloaded their songs and probably will till Napster shuts down for good. Actually, I hardly ever use Napster as I don't really care for a lot of the Top 40 stuff out there. However, my friends use Napster religously, and I have absolutely no problem with it. Everyone is putting in their 2 cents, so this was just my honest opinion. Feel free to flame away! -- Shawn Lin http://www2.cybercities.com/g/gmwbodycars/ 1stUp.com - Free the Web Get your free Internet access at http://www.1stUp.com - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Napster..off topic still!
You raise some good points Shawn. Here's another angle on why I also don't see that I am 'stealing' by using Napster. I don't download any of the recent/popular stuff as IMHO most of it is not worth listening to and I certainly wouldn't be buying it. My main use of Napster is to source old long lost 45's and other vinyl that in some cases has never been released on CD and probably never will... Some of it is available on compilation CD's but again I wouldn't buy the CD just for one or two tracks that I like. Also the record companies constantly re-release this sort of stuff and don't often vary the mix or content, just change the cover and hope that the suckers will buy So many tracks never get released whilst many of them are re-released to death... depending on the whim of the record execs and on their opinion on if it will make a buck or not. IMHO, the record companies do not cater to the customer or their clients, just to themselves. Napster has changed all that - here is a source of thousands of long lost tracks that the record companies are not even interested in releasing. Just a minor point of disagreement - if I had to pay (someone, preferably the artist) a *small fee* to copy the master tape recording (rather than a poor quality free version) I would be happy to do so If only the music distributors would get behind this new distribution technology, they could offer a service at a reasonable fee that might keep everybody happy - IMHO it would be worth paying for access to the complete catalogue of EMI or the BBC record library. GB - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: Napster..off topic still!
Couldn't we then consider the mp3's as being part of that marketing machine? Giving people a taste of what's out there and to go out shopping? Adios, LarZ --- TAMA - The Strongest Name in Drums --- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Dan Frakes Sent: Saturday, 29 July 2000 1:21 To: MDList Subject:Re: MD: Napster..off topic still! But, that said, remember that the majority of bands that have "made it" did so not because their music has been so much better than other music that fans flocked to them, but because a good portion of record company profits went towards massive advertising, playlist stuffing, promotional efforts, etc. Without that extra money, we'd most likely see a levelling of the playing field on the one hand, but also a lot of good bands will get lost in the quagmire, IMHO. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: Napster..off topic still!
"Tony Antoniou" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Couldn't we then consider the mp3's as being part of that marketing machine? Giving people a taste of what's out there and to go out shopping? Yes, but *only* if it is by the record companies' initiation/permission. Without that permission, it's copyright violation. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Napster..off topic still!
re: I disagree 110% with your statement that people who use napster dont purchase cd's. well.. most of the mp3's i have are songs i already own, i just don't want to take my cd's to work. I have some rare stuff live/old that i don't think is for sale (legally, anyway). I have some that made me buy the CD's, and i have a few that didn't. Most of the time, if i really like a song, i want to own it. If i don't like an Mp3, i delete it re: I don't get this. A band is upset that people are stealing their music, they try to shut down the company making such theft possible, and that makes them "lower than pond scum?" They *aren't* suing their fans. They are going after Napster. totally. Having been in a sh|tty small time band, i know i wouldn't want people stealing music that i had worked hard to create. Essentially, it does boil down to theft, i'm not sure how you can argue it any other way really. i hate mettalica anyway, though! !P I'd be willing to bet all the money to my name that 99% of the songs on Napster are available at Tower, Virgin, or an online CD store. mmm... not sure about that..maybe it depends on your music taste, and the online CD store.. I havent seen 'ventolin (cylob mix)' for sale yet (although I'm sure it is available somewhere), but i WILL buy it when i do. there is a lot of live stuff available that i doubt you can buy. It may well be a high percentage, but surely not 99? I'd be willing to bet that you would lose your money! If you have no way of paying for something then how can it be stealing??? It's not stealing if there is no way to pay for it!! Not true at all. TOTALLY agree... sorry las, but i don't think you can legitimately back up that arguement!. i'm not saying that i don't have mp3's of stuff that is hard to find.. but i wouldn't deny that technically i don't have any write to own the music.. I'd just rather be paying the artist instead of the label. that doesn't justify the artist getting *nothing* though. hehe.. my arguments are all two-faced, aren't they! seanB end Sean Buckingham Media Services Brunel University, UK * (Ext)2209 * (Direct) 0208 891 8264 * (e-1)[EMAIL PROTECTED] * (e-2)[EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Napster..off topic still!
If you have no way of paying for something then how can it be stealing??? It's not stealing if there is no way to pay for it!! Not true at all. TOTALLY agree... sorry las, but i don't think you can legitimately back up that arguement!. i'm not saying that i don't have mp3's of stuff that is hard to find.. but i wouldn't deny that technically i don't have any write to own the music.. I'd just rather be paying the artist instead of the label. that doesn't justify the artist getting *nothing* though. OK, I take that statement back. I'm entitled to one statemement made in the heat of the monent. But I don't totally take it back. The point that I am trying to make is that a) a person wants something. b) it is made available to them. c)they know that has value and that the persons who created it are entitled to some renumeration for it, but there is nothing in place to make a payment. I guess the best way to put it is that the majority of people who use Napster aren't doing so solley for the purpose of getting totally free music. They would be will to pay a modest fee. Don't forget that these downloads are going to be of varied quality: CD quality since they are compresssed. So I don't think that they are worth paying an excessive amount for. Larry - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Napster..off topic still!
las [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess the best way to put it is that the majority of people who use Napster aren't doing so solley for the purpose of getting totally free music. They would be will to pay a modest fee. Don't forget that these downloads are going to be of varied quality: CD quality since they are compresssed. So I don't think that they are worth paying an excessive amount for. OK, now I think we're getting closer to some sort of common ground, Larry ;-) I'm willing to give the majority of Napster users the benefit of the doubt, and suspest that they would pay a small amount in order to download MP3s of songs that they want. At that point, assuming the bulk of that money goes to the artists, I'll be a big supporter of the concept because a) the artists will be getting paid; and b) the record companies won't be getting billions. But, that said, remember that the majority of bands that have "made it" did so not because their music has been so much better than other music that fans flocked to them, but because a good portion of record company profits went towards massive advertising, playlist stuffing, promotional efforts, etc. Without that extra money, we'd most likely see a levelling of the playing field on the one hand, but also a lot of good bands will get lost in the quagmire, IMHO. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
