Re: [MeeGo-dev] ANNOUNCE: [ABI break] MeeGo 1.2 ARM architecture will only support hardfp ABI
On 11/04/11 16:36, ext Marko Saukko wrote: Hi, Now when the armv7el is going to be removed it is important that maintainers of devel: projects in the OBS add the armv8el scheduler to their projects. http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-packaging/2011-April/247051.html Indeed, how does one make enough noise about this so that this gets done? Cheers, -Juha ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] ANNOUNCE: [ABI break] MeeGo 1.2 ARM architecture will only support hardfp ABI
Am Montag 11 April 2011, 15:21:50 schrieb Thiago Macieira: > Em segunda-feira, 11 de abril de 2011, às 15:28:59, Juha Kallioinen escreveu: > > The hardfp scheduler is called armv8el and is up and running in MeeGo > > Trunk. > > Why are we calling it ARMv8? The _scheduler_ inside OBS is called "armv8el", the rpm architecture is armv7hl . This is just a name and no reference to "ARMv8". We just had no time to jump to a newer OBS release (which has armv7el + armv7hl), so we took the unused placeholder "armv8el" to get hardfp up asap and have to deal with the naming confusion. So for the records - currently we have: * armv7el = armv7l softfp * armv8el = armv7l hardfp In the next version of OBS, there are then: * armv7el = armv7l softfp * armv7hl = armv7l hardfp (* armv8el = unused/future) > All I can find about it are future references, > like: Yes, this is no ARM arch name, just a scheduler naming. > Also, an "ARMv8" build implies that it doesn't run on ARMv7 hardware. I > think that would be extremely short-sighted. As noted above, the next version of OBS has armv7hl and things will be in sync again. HTH. Best, Jan-Simon ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] ANNOUNCE: [ABI break] MeeGo 1.2 ARM architecture will only support hardfp ABI
On 11/04/11 17:26, ext Arjan van de Ven wrote: can you, for completeness, list a set of ARM SOC's that this hardfp will run on... omap3 tegra? qualcom ? asking because if it's only omap3 then I think this is a step in the wrong direction and we should revisit the TSG decision. Hi, supporting the hard float abi requires a VFP coprocessor on the SoC. Debian's hardfp wiki page lists the following SoCs [1]; Freescale iMX5x, Nvidia Tegra2, Marvell Dove, TI OMAP3xxx, TI OMAP4xxx, Qualcomm Snapdragon and Samsung S5PC100. [1] http://wiki.debian.org/ArmHardFloatPort#Partial_reference_of_SoC_and_supported_ISAs Cheers, -Juha ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] ANNOUNCE: [ABI break] MeeGo 1.2 ARM architecture will only support hardfp ABI
2011/4/11 Arjan van de Ven : > On 4/11/2011 5:28 AM, Juha Kallioinen wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> the hardfp floating point ABI for ARM will be made default and mandatory >> for MeeGo 1.2 and later. This decision was made and approved back in >> December 2010 in the MeeGo TSG and the impact has been described in MeeGo >> wiki [1]. >> >> The hardfp scheduler is called armv8el and is up and running in MeeGo >> Trunk. >> >> This change introduces an ABI break with MeeGo 1.1. The hardfp ABI is not >> compatible with the softfp ABI and because of this the packages produced by >> the armv8el scheduler have the architecture name .armv7hl. They cannot be >> installed in an armv7l system and vice versa. >> >> If you or your company run into problems with this changeover, feel free >> to seek help from #meego-arm @ freenode IRC channel or from the >> meego-porting mailing list [2]. > > can you, for completeness, list a set of ARM SOC's that this hardfp will run > on... > > omap3 > tegra? > qualcom ? The baseline is armv7hl: -mfloat-abi=hard -mfpu=vfpv3-d16 -march=armv7-a -mno-thumb This matches SoCs such as - we've tested both with the help of ARM vendors themselves and people with boards: * OMAP3, OMAP4 (tested) * nVidia Tegra2 (tested) * Qualcomm ARMv7 chips should work with it (think it was tested) * ST-Ericsson U8500 (tested) * iMX.51 (tested) * Marvell Dove and others (tested) * etc. The baseline is practically similar to that of Debian armhf, http://wiki.debian.org/ArmHardFloatPort , except that we don't mandate thumb2/permit it for the baseline for compatibility reasons - subarchitectures give proper flexibility for NEON, Thumb2. This covers the largest set of ARMv7 chipsets available, including future Cortex-A5 (VFPv3 FPU option required though of this variant and ability to use NEON exists if provided by SoC). We've actually moved from VFPv3-D32 to VFPv3-D16 which means we support nVidia tegra2 and Marvell's chips now, which armv7l didn't before. > asking because if it's only omap3 then I think this is a step in the wrong > direction and we should revisit the TSG decision. That would indeed be a wrong direction and we do not optimize towards a specific chipset/SoC, as seen above - the hardfp port has been happily working on many different devices and enabling even more. We don't even tune for cortex-a8 as this makes gcc exhibit NEON instructions in some situations. As it's an ABI break, it does require a rebuild on top of the MeeGo toolchain of typical closed source binaries from the hardware vendor, which they would have to anyway, given Linaro and Debian's armhf directions. BR Carsten Munk > > ___ > MeeGo-dev mailing list > MeeGo-dev@meego.com > http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev > http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines > ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] ANNOUNCE: [ABI break] MeeGo 1.2 ARM architecture will only support hardfp ABI
On 4/11/2011 5:28 AM, Juha Kallioinen wrote: Hello, the hardfp floating point ABI for ARM will be made default and mandatory for MeeGo 1.2 and later. This decision was made and approved back in December 2010 in the MeeGo TSG and the impact has been described in MeeGo wiki [1]. The hardfp scheduler is called armv8el and is up and running in MeeGo Trunk. This change introduces an ABI break with MeeGo 1.1. The hardfp ABI is not compatible with the softfp ABI and because of this the packages produced by the armv8el scheduler have the architecture name .armv7hl. They cannot be installed in an armv7l system and vice versa. If you or your company run into problems with this changeover, feel free to seek help from #meego-arm @ freenode IRC channel or from the meego-porting mailing list [2]. can you, for completeness, list a set of ARM SOC's that this hardfp will run on... omap3 tegra? qualcom ? asking because if it's only omap3 then I think this is a step in the wrong direction and we should revisit the TSG decision. ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] ANNOUNCE: [ABI break] MeeGo 1.2 ARM architecture will only support hardfp ABI
On 04/11/2011 03:28 PM, Juha Kallioinen wrote: Hello, the hardfp floating point ABI for ARM will be made default and mandatory for MeeGo 1.2 and later. This decision was made and approved back in December 2010 in the MeeGo TSG and the impact has been described in MeeGo wiki [1]. The hardfp scheduler is called armv8el and is up and running in MeeGo Trunk. This change introduces an ABI break with MeeGo 1.1. The hardfp ABI is not compatible with the softfp ABI and because of this the packages produced by the armv8el scheduler have the architecture name .armv7hl. They cannot be installed in an armv7l system and vice versa. If you or your company run into problems with this changeover, feel free to seek help from #meego-arm @ freenode IRC channel or from the meego-porting mailing list [2]. If you need to use closed source binaries from your hardware vendor, please contact them to get a hardfp build of those binaries. The softfp armv7el scheduler in MeeGo Trunk will be stopped at the end of April 2011. [1] http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Toolchains/ToolchainChange [2] http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-porting Cheers, Juha ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines Hi, Now when the armv7el is going to be removed it is important that maintainers of devel: projects in the OBS add the armv8el scheduler to their projects. http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-packaging/2011-April/247051.html Regards, Marko ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] ANNOUNCE: [ABI break] MeeGo 1.2 ARM architecture will only support hardfp ABI
2011/4/11 Thiago Macieira : > Em segunda-feira, 11 de abril de 2011, às 15:28:59, Juha Kallioinen escreveu: >> The hardfp scheduler is called armv8el and is up and running in MeeGo Trunk. > > Why are we calling it ARMv8? All I can find about it are future references, Long story short, we ran into a problem where the setup of OBS would make it difficult to have a 'armv7hl' scheduler - problems like not adding new features to a stable branch of OBS. As we couldn't get the patches into stable branch, after a month of trying to get things working organisationally, we went for the thing that made sure we got hardfp into MeeGo 1.2 in time, or we would have not been able to (and hence never). armv8el is an unfortunate side-effect of that. However, it is important to remember that 'armv7el' and 'armv8el' is just a name inside the OBS and what matters is the RPM architectures (armv7hl). You could practically have armv4 binaries inside a armv5el scheduler and so on. As we couldn't risk to mix softfp and hardfp binaries, we couldn't just reuse the armv7el scheduler name. BR Carsten Munk > like: > http://drdobbs.com/210800195 > > and talking about future processors like the Cortex-A10. > > There's absolutely nothing about ARMv8 in ARM's website: > http://www.google.com/search?q=armv8+site%3Aarm.com > > Also, an "ARMv8" build implies that it doesn't run on ARMv7 hardware. I think > that would be extremely short-sighted. > > -- > Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org > Senior Product Manager - Nokia, Qt Development Frameworks > PGP/GPG: 0x6EF45358; fingerprint: > E067 918B B660 DBD1 105C 966C 33F5 F005 6EF4 5358 > > ___ > MeeGo-dev mailing list > MeeGo-dev@meego.com > http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev > http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines > ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] ANNOUNCE: [ABI break] MeeGo 1.2 ARM architecture will only support hardfp ABI
Em segunda-feira, 11 de abril de 2011, às 15:28:59, Juha Kallioinen escreveu: > The hardfp scheduler is called armv8el and is up and running in MeeGo Trunk. Why are we calling it ARMv8? All I can find about it are future references, like: http://drdobbs.com/210800195 and talking about future processors like the Cortex-A10. There's absolutely nothing about ARMv8 in ARM's website: http://www.google.com/search?q=armv8+site%3Aarm.com Also, an "ARMv8" build implies that it doesn't run on ARMv7 hardware. I think that would be extremely short-sighted. -- Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org Senior Product Manager - Nokia, Qt Development Frameworks PGP/GPG: 0x6EF45358; fingerprint: E067 918B B660 DBD1 105C 966C 33F5 F005 6EF4 5358 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
[MeeGo-dev] ANNOUNCE: [ABI break] MeeGo 1.2 ARM architecture will only support hardfp ABI
Hello, the hardfp floating point ABI for ARM will be made default and mandatory for MeeGo 1.2 and later. This decision was made and approved back in December 2010 in the MeeGo TSG and the impact has been described in MeeGo wiki [1]. The hardfp scheduler is called armv8el and is up and running in MeeGo Trunk. This change introduces an ABI break with MeeGo 1.1. The hardfp ABI is not compatible with the softfp ABI and because of this the packages produced by the armv8el scheduler have the architecture name .armv7hl. They cannot be installed in an armv7l system and vice versa. If you or your company run into problems with this changeover, feel free to seek help from #meego-arm @ freenode IRC channel or from the meego-porting mailing list [2]. If you need to use closed source binaries from your hardware vendor, please contact them to get a hardfp build of those binaries. The softfp armv7el scheduler in MeeGo Trunk will be stopped at the end of April 2011. [1] http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Toolchains/ToolchainChange [2] http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-porting Cheers, Juha ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
