Re: [MBZ] Rear Brake Job - 1983 240 D
The W210 chassis is cute about that; it throws an error in the cluster (instead of the odometer) that the parking brake is on and chirps at you, then if your speed goes above 10mph or so (maybe 15mph) it will change the illumination color of the message area from amber to RED and really squawk. It sort of resolves the issue :) -j. Also popular is leaving E-brake on then drive, which causes lots of parts to be replaced, don't ask my wife about this...
Re: [MBZ] Rear Brake Job - 1983 240 D
Have you tried a random number in your area code with a 555 exchange? g Or perhaps use one of the offshore areacodes.. some of them are VERY expensive (dollars per minute) eg -j. -- Original message -- From: Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] Allan, is there any way around having to give one's phone number and full name before being able to browse that site? Brian On 1/10/07, Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a pressure bleeder I bought from www.germanautoparts.com and I would never bleed any other way after having used that. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] UNconfirmed Diesel Runon and Bus Accident
Usually, the brakes are stronger than the engine. If it's a choice between crashing a bus and blowing an engine, you hit the clutch (or put it in neutral) and let it rev. Mitch.
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality
Larry T. wondered: Or, perhaps after 2002 they decided the best was too damn much trouble - and good enough is fine ? I believe it may have started before '02 to listen to some people talk about their cars Bob R. - Original Message - From: LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 2:50 PM Subject: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality I saw this on the MB Classic's page - I assume it;s assume it's an early editorial comment that was never updated - see for yourself - From the original automobile, Karl Benz's Patent Motorwagen in 1886, to the Model Year 2002 lineup, our products have always been crafted in accordance with a simple rule: Die Besten oder Nichts - the best, or nothing. which I found at http://www.mbusa.com/care/parts/classic-parts.do which is a page for Classic Parts. Or, perhaps after 2002 they decided the best was too damn much trouble - and good enough is fine ? ;-) Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Rear Brake Job - 1983 240 D
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The W210 chassis is cute about that; it throws an error in the cluster (instead of the odometer) that the parking brake is on and chirps at you, then if your speed goes above 10mph or so (maybe 15mph) it will change the illumination color of the message area from amber to RED and really squawk. It sort of resolves the issue :) My Ford has an even simpler way of avoiding this. If you put the shift lever into any forward gear, a vacuum servo under the dash pulls the parking brake release. This also means if you have to use the parking brake for its other function (emergency brake) it will spring-return instead of latching.
[MBZ] Try this with your 240D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c_Lo2HperU Perhaps with a 300DT
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality
Benz (and BMW) got infected with American Automotive Junk Virus when Benz bought Chrysler -- and hired a whole bunch of American designers (the head of the design department at BMW is American). Hence the junk. Much more emphasis on looks and cheesy manufacturing, and much less on quality in order to keep the price from rising in an era of rather substantial inflation. Peter
Re: [MBZ] Rear Brake Job - 1983 240 D
You can make one also --- http://www.bmw-m.net/TechProc/bleeder.htm On 1/12/07, Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Allan, is there any way around having to give one's phone number and full name before being able to browse that site? Brian On 1/10/07, Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a pressure bleeder I bought from www.germanautoparts.com and I would never bleed any other way after having used that. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. Will Rogers '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] Try this with your 240D
As a matter of fact, I had my son out doing almost that exact same thing today - in the 240D!!! The sound was a little different - there's 13mm of ice on top of the pavement today --- On 1/12/07, Hendrik Riessen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c_Lo2HperU Perhaps with a 300DT -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. Will Rogers '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] Rear Brake Job - 1983 240 D
Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Allan, is there any way around having to give one's phone number and full name before being able to browse that site? Hm. Though it says german auto parts, it is really focusd on VW, and to a lesser extent Audi. All the other marques ask for contact info since they don't have any on-line catalog. The pressure bleeder is under the Tools menu on the left hand side. No name/address needed. Here's a direct link. http://www.germanautoparts.com/tools You could also try emailing [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's been a coupla years since I ordered from him, but when I had my Jetta I used to get all my parts from him. Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230
Re: [MBZ] Try this with your 240D
Some of us got to do this kind of drifting at the Summit Point, WV skid pad, but with a bald-tired Caprice, with its alignment set to sloppy. It was part of the Driver's Ed course before a Tri-O-Rama MBCA event a few years back. Werner - Original Message - From: Hendrik Riessen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 7:50 PM Subject: [MBZ] Try this with your 240D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c_Lo2HperU Perhaps with a 300DT
Re: [MBZ] Turbo hp boost percentage
A few years back, the US Navy was intent to power their new mine hunters with an Italian V-8 Diesel engine, one that had a good reputation for longevity in its cast iron version. Unfortunately, a mine sweeper needs to be a-magnetic if possible, so it was decided to make the engine out of aluminum and stainless steel, for the most part. The first iteration had a separate oil pump and piping system just to spray oil on the underside of the pistons. In testing to prove that it could make 800 HP for 8 hours, one or more pistons would just start to melt at around the 2 hour mark. It managed to pass the test when they doubled the number of jets spraying the oil! Werner - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 6:55 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Turbo hp boost percentage Don't forget that the newer engines, such as the om606 are possessed of (perhaps possessed by is more accurate) a computer-controlled wastegate, so it will be difficult to bump the boost. I seem to recall that the VNT's do a little better job at lighter loads. I also seem to recall that all Mercedes turbodiesels (at least the ones we deal with; om60x.96x, om603.97x, om617.95x, om352a) have oil jets for the pistons. -j.
Re: [MBZ] Turbo hp boost percentage
keep from melting out the tops of the pistons; turbo engines are designed with special additional cooling provisions for the pistons - some even have one or more dedicated spray nozzles inside the block to throw oil on the underside of the piston itself. Such as all the MB turbo diesel engines. Or the Cummins. Probably others too, but I have no knowledge of them. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Part OT Turbo boost percentage and Turbo Talk
mid-80's yesterday, and happened upon a two-page, beautiful advertisement for the Chrysler Laser - remember those? Test-drove one, as they were affordable and I liked the looks. Too cheesy, and my sample had something wrong with the clutch. Ended up with the Camaro. Never regretted it. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Turbo hp boost percentage
Jim Cathey wrote: Such as all the MB turbo diesel engines. Or the Cummins. Probably others too, but I have no knowledge of them. VW turbodiesels also have oil squirters to cool the pistons. It's the main difference between a turbo block and a non-turbo one.
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality
Yeah, I spoke with a gentleman who bought a new S430 and within 2 years the paint was falling off in sheets along the lower 1/4 of the body - doors, fenders and rockers - revealing corrosion beneath - never any accidents and of course DC denies responsibility. He was preparing a lawsuit last I heard. Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: Bob Rentfro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality Larry T. wondered: Or, perhaps after 2002 they decided the best was too damn much trouble - and good enough is fine ? I believe it may have started before '02 to listen to some people talk about their cars Bob R. - Original Message - From: LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 2:50 PM Subject: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality I saw this on the MB Classic's page - I assume it;s assume it's an early editorial comment that was never updated - see for yourself - From the original automobile, Karl Benz's Patent Motorwagen in 1886, to the Model Year 2002 lineup, our products have always been crafted in accordance with a simple rule: Die Besten oder Nichts - the best, or nothing. which I found at http://www.mbusa.com/care/parts/classic-parts.do which is a page for Classic Parts. Or, perhaps after 2002 they decided the best was too damn much trouble - and good enough is fine ? ;-) Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/623 - Release Date: 1/11/2007
Re: [MBZ] Skid pad in Bahrain....
BTDT, in my '80 300SD on the skid pad at Summit Point Raceway.. A real kick.. Chuck Phoenix AZ On Jan 12, 2007, at 6:32 PM, OK Don wrote: As a matter of fact, I had my son out doing almost that exact same thing today - in the 240D!!! The sound was a little different - there's 13mm of ice on top of the pavement today ---
[MBZ] This is pretty unusual
*I'd love to grab this running gear, since I've been looking hard to find an AWD vehicle for my wife. http://tinyurl.com/y7t8v8* -- Casey Olympia, WA Biodiesel: I drive in a persistent vegetative state '87 300TD intercooler/propane #22 0-60mph 7.3sec (220k) '84 300D (218k) Gashuffer: '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K) http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG
Re: [MBZ] This is pretty unusual
*I'd love to grab this running gear, since I've been looking hard to find an AWD vehicle for my wife. http://tinyurl.com/y7t8v8* Hmm, and here I am with a perfectly good 87 124 diesel VIN plate in the woods. Too bad it's for a wagon! -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] This is pretty unusual
To quote Kaleb, this seems to be a guy on crack, or perhaps something stronger. To ask 15 grand for a car in questionable condition (that low a mileage in a 19 year old car implies a lack of proper exercise or maintenance to me) is way over credulity. And apparently only Canadians can be assured of no hassle in getting it titled and registered in the USA! Werner - Original Message - From: Zeitgeist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List Mercedes@okiebenz.com; Dave M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 11:41 PM Subject: [MBZ] This is pretty unusual *I'd love to grab this running gear, since I've been looking hard to find an AWD vehicle for my wife. http://tinyurl.com/y7t8v8* -- Casey Olympia, WA Biodiesel: I drive in a persistent vegetative state '87 300TD intercooler/propane #22 0-60mph 7.3sec (220k) '84 300D (218k) Gashuffer: '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K) http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG
Re: [MBZ] This is pretty unusual
Seems a bit high in the Canadian market for such a basic vehicle. But it's a 4matic (likely the evil type). That and diesel is for the most part cheaper in Canada so the dynamics are different, plus of course we can import mmm vehicles upto 1992 now without hassle. Now if it was a wagon, I'll bet the price would be even higher... On Jan 12, 2007, at 9:00 PM, Werner Fehlauer wrote: To quote Kaleb, this seems to be a guy on crack, or perhaps something stronger. To ask 15 grand for a car in questionable condition (that low a mileage in a 19 year old car implies a lack of proper exercise or maintenance to me) is way over credulity. And apparently only Canadians can be assured of no hassle in getting it titled and registered in the USA! Werner John 1983 300TDt 374k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac) 1990's 300TDt 184k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac) 1993 500SEL 186k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac)
Re: [MBZ] This is pretty unusual
A few more from the Canadian market, for the american's to drool over 1990 300TDt 12.9K http://www.canadatrader.com/result/ detailinfo.aspx?ID=24718952pgno=1srt=1 1989 300TDt 4matic 17K, see what did I tell you, http:// www.canadatrader.com/result/detailinfo.aspx?ID=23514651pgno=1srt=1 1992 S350D 26K, you have to be kidding, and it's been for sale for a *long* time. http://www.canadatrader.com/result/detailinfo.aspx? ID=21414670pgno=1srt=1 1992 S350D 10K, wonder about the engine? At least price is fair. http://www.canadatrader.com/result/detailinfo.aspx? ID=24074004pgno=1srt=1 1975 240D 3.9K, only in canada. http://www.canadatrader.com/result/ detailinfo.aspx?ID=23514651pgno=1srt=1 On Jan 12, 2007, at 8:41 PM, Zeitgeist wrote: *I'd love to grab this running gear, since I've been looking hard to find an AWD vehicle for my wife. http://tinyurl.com/y7t8v8* -- === John M. McIntosh [EMAIL PROTECTED] Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===
Re: [MBZ] rubbing compound on hood
I can offer you some of my personal experiences, but they are limited: I recently had to remove some stains left on a light blue paint job by a maple tree. I bought the Zymol Cleaner Wax (c. $10 per pint or so - anyway, plenty to do at least a couple of jobs). While it wasn't the best for removing the stains, it did bring out a pretty impressive shine on what was a moderately dull 23 year old finish. I've heard that there is a type of Zymol that's being made for cheaper cost, and it's not as good as the original - that's probably what I bought. But it still worked pretty nicely for me. As for the stains, I bought some Turtle Wax Polishing Compound (in the green jar). This took the stains out with much less rubbing - pretty effective. The Rubbing Compound (in the red jar), as opposed to the Polishing Compound, I understand to be more aggressive and perhaps more appropriate for pre-painting applications? So it may be wise to try Polishing Compound first. Also, I'll add that I'm very unimpressed with Turtle Wax's basic car wax. It seems to go away after just a few days. The Zymol has provided a moist-looking shine that has lasted a long time. Brian 83 240D 84 Saab 900 (received the Zymol) On 1/11/07, Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My 300D was, at some point in its past, resprayed. It was clearly a mask and spray kind of job -- the body moulding, etc was not removed but it does not look bad, really. The exception is the hood, which has lost all of its gloss. The paint is a metalic silver -- I'd like to try using a rubbing compound on the hood, followed by a glaze, to renew its appearance. Anyone have any recommendations? The 3M products seem to be what turns up on google the most. Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] rubbing compound on hood
That flat looking paint with tons of orange peel will have to be power buffed to get it shiny. You could do it by hand, but only if you have a couple of weeks to devote to it. A short time with a power buffer will slick it out nicely. Turtle wax is fine wax if you apply it correctly (usually lasts months for me). Apply thinly, allow to dry as directed (not longer, it becomes very difficult to shine out), and then wipe GENTLY with a terry cloth or polishing cloth. The biggest mistake made is to apply pressure and soften the wax, whereupon it will stick to the cloth and not the paint. If you get wax on the cloth, you are pressing too hard, lighten up. You should be able to buff out the wax on the entire car without getting more than a trace on the cloth. Takes some practice - I still tend to buff to hard. Zymol is probably a silicone wax, and will shine no matter what you do with it. Carnauba will polish right off the car! Took me a long time to figure that out. No wax, sadly, will cause seriously orange-peeled or misted paint to shine, though -- gonna have to buff that, just like the mess on my 300D. I HATE cheap paint jobs, I don't know why it increases the price people pay for cars, it just costs more to fix! Peter
Re: [MBZ] Rear Brake Job - 1983 240 D
You could set it just tight enough to hold the car in your relatively flat driveway. Then your wife could somehow manage to not notice they're on and drive 10 miles to work AND back. Mine's a 190D remember, its got a hand brake. I've always preferred the handbrake because I notice when its on... She complained the car didn't have any power so we went to take a ride so she could show me. When she pulled out of the driveway with the parking brake on I got out of the car and went in the house. -Curt Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 15:49:32 -0500 From: Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Rear Brake Job - 1983 240 D To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MICHAEL ESH [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have pads and rotors on the rear. The parking brakes were fine, I just cleaned them up a bit and adjusted and we are back in business. I always wondered, for a car with rear disks, how would the parking brakes ever really wear out? All they do is hold the car in place. I guess the cable could stretch a little over time and precipitate a need for adjustment... Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230 - Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sat Jan 13 16:03:01 2007 Received: from fed1rmmtao07.cox.net ([68.230.241.32]) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1H5lLR-0003BS-LK for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Sat, 13 Jan 2007 16:03:01 + Received: from fed1rmimpo02.cox.net ([70.169.32.72]) by fed1rmmtao07.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.06.03 201-2131-130-104-20060516) with ESMTP id [EMAIL PROTECTED] for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Sat, 13 Jan 2007 10:59:25 -0500 Received: from familycomp ([68.106.48.86]) by fed1rmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id Afzh1W00X1raWR8000; Sat, 13 Jan 2007 10:59:41 -0500 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Bob Rentfro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com References: [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 08:59:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: Re: [MBZ] was: rubbing compound on hood, now Correct Way to Wax X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: /pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 16:03:03 - Peter explained: The biggest mistake made is to apply pressure and soften the wax, whereupon it will stick to the cloth and not the paint. If you get wax on the cloth, you are pressing too hard, lighten up. You should be able to buff out the wax on the entire car without getting more than a trace on the cloth. Really? This is the first time I've ever heard it explained this way. Have I spent 35 years waxing incorrectly? Do I need to go kick my dad's arse? Bob Rentfro '77 300D 165K '87 Acura Legend 180K Litchfield Park, AZ
[MBZ] Frankenheap status
January 12, 2007 I bought a 'new' 12V-2A SMPS at the thrift shop yesterday, complete with an old portable Canon inkjet printer, and today I reinstalled that part of the preheating system. Works fine, except that the heater blower is shrieking sometimes. I _must_ get that taken care of soon before that blower motor gets ruined. Replacing those is extremely difficult. (Merely lubricating it is no picnic, either.) The rear door my son usually uses was really quite messed up, and the latch was prone to freezing up. I took the door apart, and found that yes indeed the vapor barriers were non-functional. I removed the latch and solvent-tanked it to remove all the old gummy gritty lubricant, then blew it dry. All the moving bits got a nice coating of M1 5W20 from my oil can, whereupon it all started working _much_ nicer. Reinstalled, and with the striker adjusted a bit, the door now works perfectly. The vapor barriers are also glued back into place. As an extra bonus, I found that the reason the inside door release wasn't working is because the latch has a child safety switch, a small sliding (when cleaned and lubricated!) button on the latch plate. Who knew? This was in the wrong position. ...After sitting out in the cold all day at work (no noontime journey) it got in a pretty good cold soak: never above freezing today, windy, and probably about 10oF when I went to start. I had to glow twice, and crank for several seconds each time to get it started. Really I just needed to glow some extra the first time, but I don't have a lot of arctic experience with this type of system. Fortunately the weenie battery was up to it. In this kind of weather it takes a good long time to heat the cabin. When I got home I measured the head temperature, with the gauge at about 80oC the IR thermometer indicated about 150oF at the sender. At least one is reading wrong, but they're _both_ lower than they ought to be, which would adversely impact cabin heat, fuel economy, and engine longevity. Time to install that new thermostat! January 13, 2007 B! 1.8oF outside this morning, about 8oF in the garage: perfect weather for changing a thermostat. Not. With two space heaters pointed at me it wasn't too bad, so long as I didn't move ouside their sphere of influence. (One was an old-style radiant heater of a kind I remember my grandma had, it was definitely better for this purpose than the other one. $7 at the thrift shop.) Anyway, the job went easily, the thermostat housing on this engine is right out front and on top, I can't imagine this job being any easier. The most difficult part of the job was cleaning out the threads of the housing since the tap wrench didn't fit in there and I had to use an open-end wrench, which is slow. The housing was clean inside, no signs of bad corrosion. The old thermostat was German and marked 80oC, but it had no bleed hole. The new one was marked 79oC and had a jiggle valve, which I made sure was uphill. With all threads clean, bolts and housing, it went back together easily. I just re-used the (green) coolant, this spring I want to flush the system out properly. It's just too damned cold for that kind of thing right now. We'll see in a bit whether this fixed the problem or not. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Frankenheap status
Jim explained: The rear door my son usually uses was really quite messed up, and the latch was prone to freezing up. I took the door apart, and found that yes indeed the vapor barriers were non-functional. I removed the latch and solvent-tanked it to remove all the old gummy gritty lubricant, then blew it dry. All the moving bits got a nice coating of M1 5W20 from my oil can, whereupon it all started working _much_ nicer. Reinstalled, and with the striker adjusted a bit, the door now works perfectly. The vapor barriers are also glued back into place. Now you need to calibrate son for proper use of correctly operating door, correct? Bob Rentfro '77 300D 165K '87 Acura Legend 1780 Litchfield Park, AZ
Re: [MBZ] Correct Way to Wax
not the paint. If you get wax on the cloth, you are pressing too hard, lighten up. You should be able to buff out the wax on the entire car without getting more than a trace on the cloth. I always found that when I did it right the dried wax almost feels like it is scraping off with the cloth, and comes off as fine dust. If you put too much on you don't get this effect, and the job is _much_ harder. Do I need to go kick my dad's arse? Naw, just teach him how to wax a car right! I'm sure it'll feel almost the same to him. :-) -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality
One of our friends has a fairly late model SL [not sure of the year], her third MB from that dealer. The center console material is flaking off. MB just says 'too bad'. Interior looks like a junk yard car, and it would not surprise me if they have bought their last MB. BillR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 9:56 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality Yeah, I spoke with a gentleman who bought a new S430 and within 2 years the paint was falling off in sheets along the lower 1/4 of the body - doors, fenders and rockers - revealing corrosion beneath - never any accidents and of course DC denies responsibility. He was preparing a lawsuit last I heard. Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: Bob Rentfro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality Larry T. wondered: Or, perhaps after 2002 they decided the best was too damn much trouble - and good enough is fine ? I believe it may have started before '02 to listen to some people talk about their cars Bob R. - Original Message - From: LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 2:50 PM Subject: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality I saw this on the MB Classic's page - I assume it;s assume it's an early editorial comment that was never updated - see for yourself - From the original automobile, Karl Benz's Patent Motorwagen in 1886, to the Model Year 2002 lineup, our products have always been crafted in accordance with a simple rule: Die Besten oder Nichts - the best, or nothing. which I found at http://www.mbusa.com/care/parts/classic-parts.do which is a page for Classic Parts. Or, perhaps after 2002 they decided the best was too damn much trouble - and good enough is fine ? ;-) Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/623 - Release Date: 1/11/2007 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Frankenheap status
Now you need to calibrate son for proper use of correctly operating door, correct? Should be easy, just tell him he can open his own door now. Some things he learns quickly! :-) Especially with Open it yourself applied a time or two. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Frankenheap status
Ok, your weather report has officially given me second thoughts about the fun factor in my planned biz trip down to Walla Walla next week. I'll be riding high in a state-issued Taurus. What's a 12V-2A SMPS? On 1/13/07, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: January 12, 2007 I bought a 'new' 12V-2A SMPS at the thrift shop yesterday, complete with an old portable Canon inkjet printer, and today I reinstalled that part of the preheating system. Works fine, except that the heater blower is shrieking sometimes... Casey Olympia, WA Biodiesel: I drive in a persistent vegetative state '87 300TD intercooler/propane #22 0-60mph 7.3sec (220k) '84 300D (218k) Gashuffer: '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K) http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG
Re: [MBZ] was: rubbing compound on hood, now Correct Way to Wax
Before you do anything so drastic, take a look at the How-To articles on http://www.properautocare.com/kemyneveloit.html I've found their info to be very helpful. Granted, some is for Detailing Painting professionals and some of the procedures requires the use of some power tools, the info has always helped me solve my car care problems. One thing I'm going to try soon is their auggestions for Polishing glass. I haven;t bought any of their products and anytime people make claims about their wax being the best, I'm always suspicious. HTHs - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: Bob Rentfro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 10:59 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] was: rubbing compound on hood, now Correct Way to Wax Peter explained: The biggest mistake made is to apply pressure and soften the wax, whereupon it will stick to the cloth and not the paint. If you get wax on the cloth, you are pressing too hard, lighten up. You should be able to buff out the wax on the entire car without getting more than a trace on the cloth. Really? This is the first time I've ever heard it explained this way. Have I spent 35 years waxing incorrectly? Do I need to go kick my dad's arse? Bob Rentfro '77 300D 165K '87 Acura Legend 180K Litchfield Park, AZ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.10/624 - Release Date: 1/12/2007
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality
Bill told us: One of our friends has a fairly late model SL [not sure of the year], her third MB from that dealer. The center console material is flaking off. MB just says 'too bad'. Interior looks like a junk yard car, and it would not surprise me if they have bought their last MB. Suggest they consider a well taken care of older MB.you can help them. Bob Rentfro '77 300D 166K '87 Acura Legend 180K Litchfield Park, AZ
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality
and yet they sell more cars then ever before. people just like junk? as i have mentioned many times before, mercedes is the new jaguar. it's pretty much over. On 1/12/07, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, I spoke with a gentleman who bought a new S430 and within 2 years the paint was falling off in sheets along the lower 1/4 of the body - doors, fenders and rockers - revealing corrosion beneath - never any accidents and of course DC denies responsibility. He was preparing a lawsuit last I heard. Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: Bob Rentfro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality Larry T. wondered: Or, perhaps after 2002 they decided the best was too damn much trouble - and good enough is fine ? I believe it may have started before '02 to listen to some people talk about their cars Bob R. - Original Message - From: LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 2:50 PM Subject: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality I saw this on the MB Classic's page - I assume it;s assume it's an early editorial comment that was never updated - see for yourself - From the original automobile, Karl Benz's Patent Motorwagen in 1886, to the Model Year 2002 lineup, our products have always been crafted in accordance with a simple rule: Die Besten oder Nichts - the best, or nothing. which I found at http://www.mbusa.com/care/parts/classic-parts.do which is a page for Classic Parts. Or, perhaps after 2002 they decided the best was too damn much trouble - and good enough is fine ? ;-) Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/623 - Release Date: 1/11/2007 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality
Gary Hurst wrote: and yet they sell more cars then ever before. people just like junk? A lot of people these days only keep a car for a couple years anyway. They only care that they hold together for the lease term.
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality
That's a big reason for the MBCA dilemma - declining membership while cars on the road continue to sky-rocket. There's not much reason to join a club when your focus is 2 years and then off to the next brand du jour. And quality issues, real or imagined, do nothing to maintain or build on the classic Mercedes-Benz concept! Werner - Original Message - From: David Brodbeck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 2:18 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality Gary Hurst wrote: and yet they sell more cars then ever before. people just like junk? A lot of people these days only keep a car for a couple years anyway. They only care that they hold together for the lease term.
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality
I've been reading this thread and it seems odd to me. I have several friends with newer Mercedes and they all seem pleased with them. And those that I rode in drove run great, handle great perform flawlessly. I don't see any cosmetic flaws (inside or out), other than Sheree's parking lot adventure that's not the car's fault. Can these defective Mercedes be isolated cases that once they start on the net, never seem to die? Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 Original Message From: Gary Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01/13/07 01:44 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= and yet they sell more cars then ever before. people just like junk? as i have mentioned many times before, mercedes is the new jaguar. it's pretty much over. On 1/12/07, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, I spoke with a gentleman who bought a new S430 and within 2 years the paint was falling off in sheets along the lower 1/4 of the body - doors, fenders and rockers - revealing corrosion beneath - never any accidents and of course DC denies responsibility. He was preparing a lawsuit last I heard. Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: Bob Rentfro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality Larry T. wondered: Or, perhaps after 2002 they decided the best was too damn much trouble - and good enough is fine ? I believe it may have started before '02 to listen to some people talk about their cars Bob R. - Original Message - From: LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 2:50 PM Subject: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality I saw this on the MB Classic's page - I assume it;s assume it's an early editorial comment that was never updated - see for yourself - From the original automobile, Karl Benz's Patent Motorwagen in 1886, to the Model Year 2002 lineup, our products have always been crafted in accordance with a simple rule: Die Besten oder Nichts - the best, or nothing. which I found at http://www.mbusa.com/care/parts/classic-parts.do which is a page for Classic Parts. Or, perhaps after 2002 they decided the best was too damn much trouble - and good enough is fine ? ;-) Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/623 - Release Date: 1/11/2007 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality
David sez: A lot of people these days only keep a car for a couple years anyway. They only care that they hold together for the lease term. I think that's what MB has been banking on since the merger. Hursty sez: mercedes is the new jaguar. it's pretty much over. I think you're right Bob Rentfro '77 300D 166K '87 Acura Legend 180K Litchfield Park, AZ
Re: [MBZ] Frankenheap status
Ok, your weather report has officially given me second thoughts about the fun factor in my planned biz trip down to Walla Walla next week. I'll be riding high in a state-issued Taurus. Whee. If you're lucky the arctic blast may have passed, but who knows? What's a 12V-2A SMPS? 12-volt, 2-ampere switch-mode power supply. More status: ...Well, it doesn't really read higher on the gauge, and the IR thermometer says it's maybe 10oF hotter than before. I guess that's an improvement, but I do believe I need to block the radiator in this weather, I think air cooling is working too effectively! -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality
Tom mentioned: I have several friends with newer Mercedes and they all seem pleased with them. ...and then he wondered: Can these defective Mercedes be isolated cases that once they start on the net, never seem to die? My friend has a '05 C230 and he loves. It has been flawless. Another work associate has a '05 C230 and it has been one headache after another. There have always been good ones and bad ones. Historically, the bad ones were the infrequent exception. It seems it's not that way anymore. Bob Rentfro '77 300D 166K '87 Acura Legend 180K Litchfield Park, AZ
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality
Tom wrote:Can these defective Mercedes be isolated cases that once they start on the net, never seem to die? Hi Tom, Not sure if the answer to your question is yes or no. Perhaps it's an isolated case, but it wouldn't matter to me (or you) if it had happened to one of us - spending $80K for a car and have paint fall off must be disconcerting. And then MB says, Sorry. In the case I mentioned, I had *personally* traded emails with the owner who asked me to do some research on quality claims by MB. I looked thru several years' worth of sales brochures and other documents published by MB, I could find *no* claims about the quality used when creating a new MB for the time frame 1999-2002. I would have to go back and look at the sales brochure for my early W123 240D and related models produced in that time frame but I'm pretty sure I remember reading about the quality built into each new MB. Now, all the brochures talk about is safety and features. *No* mention of build quality. I was surprised but I guess I shouldn;t be. You question about it being an isolated instance could be turned around if to consider perhaps only 10% of the problems like this get widespread attention. Don't know if 10% is correct or not - just pulled a number out of the air. ;-) But I would think there's *some* percentage that accepts the dealers answer and finds a way to sell the car -- and another group that raises hell every chance they get. Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com; 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 3:02 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality I've been reading this thread and it seems odd to me. I have several friends with newer Mercedes and they all seem pleased with them. And those that I rode in drove run great, handle great perform flawlessly. I don't see any cosmetic flaws (inside or out), other than Sheree's parking lot adventure that's not the car's fault. Can these defective Mercedes be isolated cases that once they start on the net, never seem to die? Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 Original Message From: Gary Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01/13/07 01:44 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= and yet they sell more cars then ever before. people just like junk? as i have mentioned many times before, mercedes is the new jaguar. it's pretty much over. On 1/12/07, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, I spoke with a gentleman who bought a new S430 and within 2 years the paint was falling off in sheets along the lower 1/4 of the body - doors, fenders and rockers - revealing corrosion beneath - never any accidents and of course DC denies responsibility. He was preparing a lawsuit last I heard. Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: Bob Rentfro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality Larry T. wondered: Or, perhaps after 2002 they decided the best was too damn much trouble - and good enough is fine ? I believe it may have started before '02 to listen to some people talk about their cars Bob R. - Original Message - From: LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 2:50 PM Subject: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality I saw this on the MB Classic's page - I assume it;s assume it's an early editorial comment that was never updated - see for yourself - From the original automobile, Karl Benz's Patent Motorwagen in 1886, to the Model Year 2002 lineup, our products have always been crafted in accordance with a simple rule: Die Besten oder Nichts - the best, or nothing. which I found at http://www.mbusa.com/care/parts/classic-parts.do which is a page for Classic Parts. Or, perhaps after 2002 they decided the best was too damn much trouble - and good enough is fine ? ;-) Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ .
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality
If MB is selling more cars than ever before, how can they be junk? They must be doing something right. Sure the price is right and they are loaded with features but an upwardly steep sales curve cannot be attributed to just that. A very large number of new model MB taxis cruise the streets in europe. Taxi drivers don't buy unreliable junk. Dimitri 73 220D and yet they sell more cars then ever before. people just like junk? as i have mentioned many times before, mercedes is the new jaguar. it's pretty much over. On 1/12/07, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, I spoke with a gentleman who bought a new S430 and within 2 years the paint was falling off in sheets along the lower 1/4 of the body - doors, fenders and rockers - revealing corrosion beneath - never any accidents and of course DC denies responsibility. He was preparing a lawsuit last I heard. Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: Bob Rentfro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality Larry T. wondered: Or, perhaps after 2002 they decided the best was too damn much trouble - and good enough is fine ? I believe it may have started before '02 to listen to some people talk about their cars Bob R. - Original Message - From: LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 2:50 PM Subject: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality I saw this on the MB Classic's page - I assume it;s assume it's an early editorial comment that was never updated - see for yourself - From the original automobile, Karl Benz's Patent Motorwagen in 1886, to the Model Year 2002 lineup, our products have always been crafted in accordance with a simple rule: Die Besten oder Nichts - the best, or nothing. which I found at http://www.mbusa.com/care/parts/classic-parts.do which is a page for Classic Parts. Or, perhaps after 2002 they decided the best was too damn much trouble - and good enough is fine ? ;-) Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/623 - Release Date: 1/11/2007 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by Green Rating at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality
And speaking of build quality and reliability, what about Toyota who claims to lead in both? I find it rare to find a 10 yr old Toyota pickup which is not perforated with rust or a 10 yr old lexus leather interior which is not torn and deteriorated almost beyond recognition. Dimitri --- LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom wrote:Can these defective Mercedes be isolated cases that once they start on the net, never seem to die? Hi Tom, Not sure if the answer to your question is yes or no. Perhaps it's an isolated case, but it wouldn't matter to me (or you) if it had happened to one of us - spending $80K for a car and have paint fall off must be disconcerting. And then MB says, Sorry. In the case I mentioned, I had *personally* traded emails with the owner who asked me to do some research on quality claims by MB. I looked thru several years' worth of sales brochures and other documents published by MB, I could find *no* claims about the quality used when creating a new MB for the time frame 1999-2002. I would have to go back and look at the sales brochure for my early W123 240D and related models produced in that time frame but I'm pretty sure I remember reading about the quality built into each new MB. Now, all the brochures talk about is safety and features. *No* mention of build quality. I was surprised but I guess I shouldn;t be. You question about it being an isolated instance could be turned around if to consider perhaps only 10% of the problems like this get widespread attention. Don't know if 10% is correct or not - just pulled a number out of the air. ;-) But I would think there's *some* percentage that accepts the dealers answer and finds a way to sell the car -- and another group that raises hell every chance they get. Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com; 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 3:02 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality I've been reading this thread and it seems odd to me. I have several friends with newer Mercedes and they all seem pleased with them. And those that I rode in drove run great, handle great perform flawlessly. I don't see any cosmetic flaws (inside or out), other than Sheree's parking lot adventure that's not the car's fault. Can these defective Mercedes be isolated cases that once they start on the net, never seem to die? Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 Original Message From: Gary Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01/13/07 01:44 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= and yet they sell more cars then ever before. people just like junk? as i have mentioned many times before, mercedes is the new jaguar. it's pretty much over. On 1/12/07, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, I spoke with a gentleman who bought a new S430 and within 2 years the paint was falling off in sheets along the lower 1/4 of the body - doors, fenders and rockers - revealing corrosion beneath - never any accidents and of course DC denies responsibility. He was preparing a lawsuit last I heard. Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: Bob Rentfro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality Larry T. wondered: Or, perhaps after 2002 they decided the best was too damn much trouble - and good enough is fine ? I believe it may have started before '02 to listen to some people talk about their cars Bob R. - Original Message - From: LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 2:50 PM Subject: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality I saw this on the MB Classic's page - I assume it;s assume it's an early editorial comment that was never updated - see for yourself - From the original automobile, Karl Benz's Patent Motorwagen in 1886, to the Model Year 2002 lineup, our products have always been crafted in accordance with a simple rule: Die Besten oder Nichts - the
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality
Dimitri - what people (and especially taxi drivers) are able to buy in Europe is something completely different from what MBUSA is offering. And you won't find hardly ANY M-B taxis in the USA. In Europe, you can purchase a basic car, manual transmission, cloth upholstery, steel wheels, much less electronics. In the USA, they are sold to satisfy a luxury image, with all the bells and whistles they can pack in. When all these bits and pieces start to fail, the image suffers, and a lot of former owners have switched to leasing, and are as apt to try a Lexus or other brand when the mood suits them. And I'd bet that a European buyer of an S-Class would not put up with any brush-off from a dealer, at least more than once. Werner - Original Message - From: Dimitri Seretakis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality If MB is selling more cars than ever before, how can they be junk? They must be doing something right. Sure the price is right and they are loaded with features but an upwardly steep sales curve cannot be attributed to just that. A very large number of new model MB taxis cruise the streets in europe. Taxi drivers don't buy unreliable junk. Dimitri 73 220D
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality
Bob wroteHistorically, the bad ones were the infrequent exception. It seems it's not that way anymore You know, the internet has changed things more ways that we can even dream - communication is probably one of the biggest changes - I wonder if perhaps owners who have problems have a better way to publicize their problems than before? Before the New, it was word of mouth, newspapers and if lucky, TV. Now, a problem appears in the morning and before lunch it can be part of a forum (or several) being spread all over the world. Perhaps? Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: Bob Rentfro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality Tom mentioned: I have several friends with newer Mercedes and they all seem pleased with them. ...and then he wondered: Can these defective Mercedes be isolated cases that once they start on the net, never seem to die? My friend has a '05 C230 and he loves. It has been flawless. Another work associate has a '05 C230 and it has been one headache after another. There have always been good ones and bad ones. Historically, the bad ones were the infrequent exception. It seems it's not that way anymore. Bob Rentfro '77 300D 166K '87 Acura Legend 180K Litchfield Park, AZ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.10/624 - Release Date: 1/12/2007
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality
LarryT wrote: Bob wroteHistorically, the bad ones were the infrequent exception. It seems it's not that way anymore You know, the internet has changed things more ways that we can even dream - communication is probably one of the biggest changes - I wonder if perhaps owners who have problems have a better way to publicize their problems than before? Before the New, it was word of mouth, newspapers and if lucky, TV. Now, a problem appears in the morning and before lunch it can be part of a forum (or several) being spread all over the world. Even if it's only the occasional lemon, that points to bad quality control. Even if the bulk of their output is good, inconsistency is always worrisome. How can you know if you're buying a good one or a bad one?
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality
junk may not be the right word (except, well, in the case of MLs). consider the question in these terms. are they like the mercedes that we drive and love or are they something quite different? say you were a fairly affluent fellow in the market for a luxury car 35 years ago. you go to the cadillac dealer because that is where everyone goes to buy a luxury car. the salesman sees from the cut of your wash and wear leisure suit that you are a man who will settle for nothing but the best, so he busts out that brand new 1972 Fleetwood Brougham. my, what a car! you wish your living room sectional sofa were this nice! the car is just huge, announcing your presence. it cruises the highway in serene silence and comfort, the huge massive torque motor effortlessly gliding you through any situation as the AC blows ice cold air on you and your 5 passengers. you ARE a pimp, young man! you think about checking out a rolls royce, but the price is just too high to justify for a car, so you check out mercedes. so you go down to the benz dealer and look at a 280SEL 4.5. hmmm, it's a bit more money than that cadillac and isn't quite as well equipped or appointed, but you notice something. the paint just looks better and hte body panels all seem to fit with great precision. suddenly, the cadillac's snazy interior looks flat cheap. was that plastic in the cadillac or wood like here in the mercedes? you look under the hood and you see a thorougly modern overhead cam V8 with state of the art electronic fuel injection. and then you drive and it all comes together for you. no creeks. no rattles. the steering and suspension feel much heavier than the cadillac, but it is just as comfortable. you can actually get a feel for the road as you drive and increase speed. you hit the brakes and the car actually slows raplidly in a straight line. the car is of one complete piece, a unity, a whole. it is a precision machine and you are now converted to a new way of looking the automotive world. could it happen like this today? is mercedes now a special car or just another expensive status car? is the build and materials quality really still the best? can all the advanced electronics be trusted or is bosch just flat committed to being the new lucas? will you still be driving it in 20, 30 or 40 years or do you see yourself running back to the dealer the day before the extended warranty expires? they are not junk in the sense of a yugo being junk. I'd go as far as to agree that they are really, really nice cars and an absolute pleasure drive. but i'll also say that they are NOT the mercedes cars we know and love. for the sake of getting along, i'm just going to leave with some of us just prefer our mass in latin, i suppose. but there is more there to our disatisfaction. On 1/13/07, Dimitri Seretakis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If MB is selling more cars than ever before, how can they be junk? They must be doing something right. Sure the price is right and they are loaded with features but an upwardly steep sales curve cannot be attributed to just that. A very large number of new model MB taxis cruise the streets in europe. Taxi drivers don't buy unreliable junk. Dimitri 73 220D and yet they sell more cars then ever before. people just like junk? as i have mentioned many times before, mercedes is the new jaguar. it's pretty much over. On 1/12/07, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, I spoke with a gentleman who bought a new S430 and within 2 years the paint was falling off in sheets along the lower 1/4 of the body - doors, fenders and rockers - revealing corrosion beneath - never any accidents and of course DC denies responsibility. He was preparing a lawsuit last I heard. Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: Bob Rentfro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality Larry T. wondered: Or, perhaps after 2002 they decided the best was too damn much trouble - and good enough is fine ? I believe it may have started before '02 to listen to some people talk about their cars Bob R. - Original Message - From: LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 2:50 PM Subject: [MBZ] Mercedes Quality I saw this on the MB Classic's page - I assume it;s assume it's an early editorial comment that was never updated - see for yourself - From the original automobile, Karl Benz's Patent Motorwagen in 1886, to the Model Year 2002 lineup, our products
Re: [MBZ] was: rubbing compound on hood, now Correct Way to Wax
Me too! I always get quite a bit of material on the towel as I laboriously scrub (the work is much harder if the paint job is worse off). And the material I get on the towel is the color of the paint - I understood it to be the oxidation coming off or something like it. Frankly, I've never fully understood the concept of applying the wax, then removing it, yet your car is waxed - that is it still has a layer of wax on it. Always wondered how the right amount of wax remains on the car. Clearly I have a lot to learn. Brian Bob wrote: Really? This is the first time I've ever heard it explained this way. Have I spent 35 years waxing incorrectly? Do I need to go kick my dad's arse?
