date:20120102

On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 23:44:28 -0500 Max  wrote:

> Craig  wrote:
> >
> >If you are measuring DIAMETERS, you don't need the factor of two.
> >
> 
> Craig,
> 
> I think the factor of two is needed because I'm measuring play at the
> valve head, which is a little over 40mm away from the guide.  The guide
> itself is about 40mm long.  If the play at the end of the guide is
> 0.08mm, extending the stem 40mm away will double the amount of measured
> play

Yes, that would make a difference.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] First year 140 rodbender, what could possibly go wrong?

2012-01-02 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin

I love it

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 2, 2012, at 10:42 PM, Alex Chamberlain  wrote:

> http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/cto/2774898208.html
> 
> I sent an email out immediately asking about service records and/or
> engine replacement, but I don't hold out much hope for useful info.
> "Windows and sunroof are power and work well."  (But everything else
> is broken.)
> 
> Please tell me that's an artifact of bad lighting or a digital camera
> confused about white balance, rather than that 140 sedans really came
> with burgundy interiors.
> 
> Alex
> 
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[MBZ] Frankengumpy project fun

>From the same seller:
http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/cto/2771395461.html
http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/cto/2778253110.html

Probably largely rust-free, if they are long-time West Coast cars.

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Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

Craig  wrote:
>
>If you are measuring DIAMETERS, you don't need the factor of two.
>

Craig,

I think the factor of two is needed because I'm measuring play at the valve 
head, which is a little over 40mm away from the guide.  The guide itself is 
about 40mm long.  If the play at the end of the guide is 0.08mm, extending the 
stem 40mm away will double the amount of measured play.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD
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[MBZ] First year 140 rodbender, what could possibly go wrong?

http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/cto/2774898208.html

I sent an email out immediately asking about service records and/or
engine replacement, but I don't hold out much hope for useful info.
"Windows and sunroof are power and work well."  (But everything else
is broken.)

Please tell me that's an artifact of bad lighting or a digital camera
confused about white balance, rather than that 140 sedans really came
with burgundy interiors.

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Energy Victory?

Bottom line:  We are in a mess, we have relied on criminal idiots to
"represent" us citizens for past 15 decades, and they have failed everyone
except themselves.

Can it be fixed?  Yes, but not without expending blood and treasure which
few are willing to spend.

Best guess:  What every happens, it's going to be painful. Reform or
Revolt... is how it's always been handled in history... now it's "our"
turn.  I look at the next generation with nose rings and tattoos with their
pants hanging over their asses and a vacant look on their face and I
wonder "why bother".

Closing thought:  Iraq voted and each voter dipped his index finger in blue
ink and waved it proudly this cycle.. Americans should dip another
finger in red ink and wave it proudly the middle one, I think.

Congress: The only two houses in America that need FORECLOSED.

Grant...

On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

> Curt Raymond wrote:
>
>> I'd argue that we're in a jam because our idiot legislators (of all
>> political stripes) have decided that compromise means "You give up and give
>> me what I want"
>>
>
>
> I thought political compromise meant "I'll vote for your garbage bill if
> you'll vote for mine", or "If you hold the taxpayers down while I rape
> them, I'll hold them down  while you rape them".
>
> Mitch.
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Go to local MB stealers/shops and ask what machine shops they use. 
>GO to that one.  Show them the spec, and inform them you will be 
>measuring it before it leaves their control, and that if any one is 
>out of spec, they will be doing it over or you will not pay them.
>
Dieselhead, 

Thanks for both of your replies.  I've already located the shop, will take copy 
of the FSM procedure with me...
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD
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Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

2012-01-02 Thread Rick Knoble

On Jan 2, 2012, at 9:58 PM, "Dieselhead" <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

> No use paying a shop not familiar with MB to do a screwup job.

Because a "regular" machine shop will think those specs are crazy and do it 
their way anyway. 

Rick
Sent from my AT&T rotary phone

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Re: [MBZ] W123 300TD - starts and dies - SOLVED!!

2012-01-02 Thread Dieselhead

Any problems starting?  Long cranking before it will fire?  Leaking 
fuel out means it will leak air IN.  The hand pump that leaks fuel 
does not always let air in, but everyone I have had that leaked 
eventually lets air in.  In one period of a couple years I replaced a 
bunch of them.




On both my 123 240D and 115 220D fuel spills out around the hand 
pump shortly after pumping. They've been doing that for years.


Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 2, 2012, at 3:55 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

WHAT?

Andrew, seriously... You said "When I unscrewed fully and started 
pumping, fuel overflowed immediately" that, my friend, is a leak. 
Its not supposed to happen and it perfectly explains the complaint 
you had, whats going on here? Are you just messing with us?


-Curt


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Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

2012-01-02 Thread Dieselhead

Go to local MB stealers/shops and ask what machine shops they use. 
GO to that one.  Show them the spec, and inform them you will be 
measuring it before it leaves their control, and that if any one is 
out of spec, they will be doing it over or you will not pay them.


No use paying a shop not familiar with MB to do a screwup job.




Curt,

I think you're right, I'm probably going to end up taking this to a local
shop.

-Max


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Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

2012-01-02 Thread Dieselhead

It was.  I'd call that a pass.  There is often crud that will allow a 
slow leak (or a fast one)   You might want to lap the valves.




Dieselhead, was it you that recommended using the "evil fluid" aka gasoline
to check the valve seat seals?  Someone recommended testing the seal of the
valve against the seat with gasoline; if the seal can hold the gasoline then
no need to grind.  This a.m. I did that test, and three out of six will
allow the gasoline to leak by, but rather slowly.  It takes about 30 seconds
for the small amount of gasoline held by the area around the valves to leak
out.  Looks like the intake valves are the culprits.  Considering the
fraction of a second for a combustion event, I think that a slow leak is
probably OK, but I'm far from an expert.  Is this test a "pass" or a "fail"

The other three seem to hold the gasoline nicely.

There is very little play in the valve guides; all of the exhaust valves
seem to be about the same, and the intake valves are all a little tighter.

So, do I install this head as is, or take it to a shop for a valve job?

-Max


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Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

Peter,

So the MB guides have the inner diameter correct "out of the box"?  All the
shop needs to do is remove the old guide, bore out the head if required, and
then install the new guide (oversize "repair" guide if head is bored out)?
I was under the impression that the new guide would need to be installed and
then have the inner diameter bored out by the shop to insure it is
perpendicular to and centered on the valve seat.

Also, it looks as if my valves stems may be beyond the wear limit, so I may
need to replace some valves as well.  Of course, all these measurements have
been done by a rank amateur with a cheap Chinese digital caliper (harbor
freight) and a cheap Chinese dial indicator (Enco), so I might be totally
off the mark.

Tomorrow the head will be delivered to the machine shop, unless something
comes up.  We've got a sick cat, about 17 years old, that is getting close
to the end of her life, and she'll be going to see a vet or two tomorrow.
Last week an X-ray revealed a pretty big tumor near her liver that was
branching into her chest cavity (lungs) but we're going to get a second
opinion.  This weekend I built a wooden casket for her from some wood I had
lying around.  SWMBO thought the cat was about to pass on Saturday, but
she's still got a lot of fight left in her.  I'm trying to figure out an
expedient yet tasteful way to make a tombstone with Quick-Crete.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Peter Frederick
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 6:14 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

Look in the column labeled "overlap" -- that's the clearance between the
valve diameter and guide diameter.  They have to be measured and fit
individually, although usually MB guides are just about perfect out of the
box.

Peter

On Jan 2, 2012, at 5:10 PM, Max Dillon wrote:

> Got it, thanks!
>
> -Max
>
> -Original Message-
> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes- 
> boun...@okiebenz.com]
> On Behalf Of Peter Frederick
> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 6:04 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga
>
> I sent it to you off list, let me know if it doesn't arrive.
>
> Peter
>
> On Jan 2, 2012, at 3:55 PM, Max Dillon wrote:
>
>> OK, I measured six valves at the head, found 0.007" for the tightest
>> and 0.020" for the sloppiest.  Accounting for the distance from the
>> guide by dividing by two would still put them all outside of the spec
>> you referenced.
>> Where can I find that specification?  Looks like time for a
>> professional shop to take over, I'd like to give them a copy of the
>> spec so they understand what I need done.
>>
>> -Max
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-
>> boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Peter Frederick
>> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 3:51 PM
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga
>>
>> The specs for 61x engines is ZERO to 0.02 mm (0.0005").
>>
>> Yes, that's correct, about 0.0005".  They aren't going to wear TIGHT,
>> after all, and have to seal against exhaust pressure.  If the oiled
>> valve stem
>> will go into the guide and the spring will close it, it's fine.
>> They will
>> NOT usually go in dry -- if they do, they are too loose.
>>
>> The valves are chrome moly, they are only going to wear if something
>> harder than granular gray cast iron is used for the guide.
>>
>> American machine shops are obsessed with sloppy valve guides and
>> "oiling"
>> the valve stems for some reason, they all want them rattling in the
>> guide and blowing like a steam engine exhaust.  Never could figure
>> that out, some shops will even spiral cut an "oil channel"
>> down the guide.
>>
>> All it does is cause oil burning and bad compression, since the valve
>> cannot seal on a ring seat if it's at all off axis..
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> On Jan 2, 2012, at 2:14 PM, Max wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Frederick  wrote:
>>>
 If you can feel movement of the valves in the guides AT ALL they  
 are
 way oversize.

 Spec is 0.02 to 0.05mm new, you cannot feel that at all.  In fact,
 if the valves won't stay up in the guide against the seat with the
 spring out the guides are shot and need to be replaced.
>>>
>>> Peter, .05 mm is less than .002 inches; that is really tight!
>>> --
>>> Max Dillon
>>> Charleston SC
>>> '95 E300, '87 300TD
>>> ___
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> archives
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>>
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>>
>>
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>> For new and used par

Re: [MBZ] W123 300TD - starts and dies - SOLVED!!

As mentioned earlier, I will order one tomorrow.

On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 7:01 PM, Allan Streib  wrote:

> Peter Frederick  writes:
>
> > It won't leak screwed down, it only has suction applied to the seal.
> > Leaks air in, not fuel out.  Only leaks fuel when you pull up the
> > plunger and press down, when it leaks around the piston seal.
>
> The one on my 300SD leaked when pumping, when I first got the car.
> Shortly thereafter it was leaking whenever car was running, even screwed
> down tight.  I replaced it with the new type and no trouble since.
>
> Allan
>
> --
> 1983 300D
> 1979 300SD
>
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[MBZ] arduino project idea: ACC servo replacement

I'm really thinking of attempting an arduino project to replace the ACC
servo/amp in the W116.  I don't know if I can do it for less than the
unwired tools kit ($700) if I put a value on my time but the learning
experience would be worth it I think.

Looking at these vacuum controllers.  Any thoughts?

  http://www.hargravesfluidics.com/magnum.php

Don't know what they cost, they don't seem to list prices.

Would also need a hot water valve of some kind.  I'm assuming one from a
more modern vehicle might be usable, but not sure which specific one
would be a good choice.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] OT: compaq/hp won't boot

2012-01-02 Thread Mountain Man

Allan wrote:
> I can probably pick up a surplus 3-year-old Dell at the university for
> cheap.

I have bought stuff from these guys several times.  Jaime used to know
the main guy years ago - Jaime?
www.computertradeexchange.com/ - Reseller of Obslete Computer Parts.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] OT: compaq/hp won't boot

I put a used MB in my brother's computer last year for this reason --  
when I could get it to boot, the CPU was running very hot just  
looking at the bios setup.


Either a different MB (you may then need new memory) or a replacement  
is probably the best course.


I did swap out the DVD drive on my brother's this weekend, it was  
crashing Flight Simulator and refusing to read or write CDs -- got a  
new on with a SATA interface and it worked like new. Cured all the  
hangs, crashes, and assorted weird behaviors.


Might be worth unplugging the DVD just to see what happens, but I'd  
say it's probably the MB.


Peter

On Jan 2, 2012, at 6:21 PM, Allan Streib wrote:


That would only be the DVD drive, on this computer.

So assuming bad caps on the motherboard and a cooked or nearly cooked
CPU, there's really nothing more worth doing here, the way I see it.
Get a new board and CPU, swap the drives and RAM?

I can probably pick up a surplus 3-year-old Dell at the university for
cheap.  Probably better than the compaq he has, since they buy from  
the

enterprise division of Dell.

Allan


Peter Frederick  writes:


Probably bad capacitors on the MB, allowing the CPU power supply to
cook the processor.  A new processor will only last until it gets
cooked, too.

You can try unplugging everything but the MB and hard drive, too.

Peter
On Jan 2, 2012, at 5:57 PM, Allan Streib wrote:

Ugh.  Well I picked up a new power supply today, installed it,  
and now

the original symptoms have returned.  All fans on, no video.

I even tried switching the power supply with my wife's computer  
again,

just to rule out the off chance that I got a bad one out of the box.

So it seems that the power supply was a false cause.  Something  
else,
somewhat intermittent since it did boot up OK last night, is  
going on.


I tried reseating the CPU and that made no difference.

Allan

Allan Streib  writes:


Yep, good guess.  I swapped in the power supply from my wife's
computer
(hey, it's HER dad, right?) and his computer booted up just fine.

I'll pick up a new power supply for him tomorrow.

Allan

Peter Frederick  writes:


Fans are 12V, not 5V, and for whatever reason, improper voltage or
excessive ripple current on the 5V line will prevent the CPU from
working.  Can also play merry  h..l with the logic board itself,
leading to failure to initiate video, read drives, etc.

The fans will run fine at 10V or 14V, the processor will NOT  
run way

outside the specs.

Peter


On Jan 1, 2012, at 4:24 PM, Allan Streib wrote:


Peter Frederick  writes:

Check the fan in the power supply.  However, once they go  
sprong,

usually the 5V line in the PS is flaky and it won't boot because
the
processor voltage is too low.


Power supply fan is working.  All the fans come on at full  
speed as

soon
as it's plugged in.

Allan

--
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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--
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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--
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] OT: compaq/hp won't boot

That would only be the DVD drive, on this computer.

So assuming bad caps on the motherboard and a cooked or nearly cooked
CPU, there's really nothing more worth doing here, the way I see it.
Get a new board and CPU, swap the drives and RAM?

I can probably pick up a surplus 3-year-old Dell at the university for
cheap.  Probably better than the compaq he has, since they buy from the
enterprise division of Dell.

Allan


Peter Frederick  writes:

> Probably bad capacitors on the MB, allowing the CPU power supply to
> cook the processor.  A new processor will only last until it gets
> cooked, too.
>
> You can try unplugging everything but the MB and hard drive, too.
>
> Peter
> On Jan 2, 2012, at 5:57 PM, Allan Streib wrote:
>
>> Ugh.  Well I picked up a new power supply today, installed it, and now
>> the original symptoms have returned.  All fans on, no video.
>>
>> I even tried switching the power supply with my wife's computer again,
>> just to rule out the off chance that I got a bad one out of the box.
>>
>> So it seems that the power supply was a false cause.  Something else,
>> somewhat intermittent since it did boot up OK last night, is going on.
>>
>> I tried reseating the CPU and that made no difference.
>>
>> Allan
>>
>> Allan Streib  writes:
>>
>>> Yep, good guess.  I swapped in the power supply from my wife's
>>> computer
>>> (hey, it's HER dad, right?) and his computer booted up just fine.
>>>
>>> I'll pick up a new power supply for him tomorrow.
>>>
>>> Allan
>>>
>>> Peter Frederick  writes:
>>>
 Fans are 12V, not 5V, and for whatever reason, improper voltage or
 excessive ripple current on the 5V line will prevent the CPU from
 working.  Can also play merry  h..l with the logic board itself,
 leading to failure to initiate video, read drives, etc.

 The fans will run fine at 10V or 14V, the processor will NOT run way
 outside the specs.

 Peter


 On Jan 1, 2012, at 4:24 PM, Allan Streib wrote:

> Peter Frederick  writes:
>
>> Check the fan in the power supply.  However, once they go sprong,
>> usually the 5V line in the PS is flaky and it won't boot because
>> the
>> processor voltage is too low.
>
> Power supply fan is working.  All the fans come on at full speed as
> soon
> as it's plugged in.
>
> Allan
>
> --
> 1983 300D
> 1979 300SD
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>>
>> --
>> 1983 300D
>> 1979 300SD
>>
>> ___
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>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
> ___
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>
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-- 
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1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] OT: compaq/hp won't boot

Probably bad capacitors on the MB, allowing the CPU power supply to  
cook the processor.  A new processor will only last until it gets  
cooked, too.


You can try unplugging everything but the MB and hard drive, too.

Peter
On Jan 2, 2012, at 5:57 PM, Allan Streib wrote:


Ugh.  Well I picked up a new power supply today, installed it, and now
the original symptoms have returned.  All fans on, no video.

I even tried switching the power supply with my wife's computer again,
just to rule out the off chance that I got a bad one out of the box.

So it seems that the power supply was a false cause.  Something else,
somewhat intermittent since it did boot up OK last night, is going on.

I tried reseating the CPU and that made no difference.

Allan

Allan Streib  writes:

Yep, good guess.  I swapped in the power supply from my wife's  
computer

(hey, it's HER dad, right?) and his computer booted up just fine.

I'll pick up a new power supply for him tomorrow.

Allan

Peter Frederick  writes:


Fans are 12V, not 5V, and for whatever reason, improper voltage or
excessive ripple current on the 5V line will prevent the CPU from
working.  Can also play merry  h..l with the logic board itself,
leading to failure to initiate video, read drives, etc.

The fans will run fine at 10V or 14V, the processor will NOT run way
outside the specs.

Peter


On Jan 1, 2012, at 4:24 PM, Allan Streib wrote:


Peter Frederick  writes:


Check the fan in the power supply.  However, once they go sprong,
usually the 5V line in the PS is flaky and it won't boot  
because the

processor voltage is too low.


Power supply fan is working.  All the fans come on at full speed as
soon
as it's plugged in.

Allan

--
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] W123 300TD - starts and dies - SOLVED!!

Peter Frederick  writes:

> It won't leak screwed down, it only has suction applied to the seal.
> Leaks air in, not fuel out.  Only leaks fuel when you pull up the
> plunger and press down, when it leaks around the piston seal.

The one on my 300SD leaked when pumping, when I first got the car.
Shortly thereafter it was leaking whenever car was running, even screwed
down tight.  I replaced it with the new type and no trouble since.

Allan

-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] OT: compaq/hp won't boot

Ugh.  Well I picked up a new power supply today, installed it, and now
the original symptoms have returned.  All fans on, no video.

I even tried switching the power supply with my wife's computer again,
just to rule out the off chance that I got a bad one out of the box.

So it seems that the power supply was a false cause.  Something else,
somewhat intermittent since it did boot up OK last night, is going on.

I tried reseating the CPU and that made no difference.

Allan

Allan Streib  writes:

> Yep, good guess.  I swapped in the power supply from my wife's computer
> (hey, it's HER dad, right?) and his computer booted up just fine.
>
> I'll pick up a new power supply for him tomorrow.
>
> Allan
>
> Peter Frederick  writes:
>
>> Fans are 12V, not 5V, and for whatever reason, improper voltage or
>> excessive ripple current on the 5V line will prevent the CPU from
>> working.  Can also play merry  h..l with the logic board itself,
>> leading to failure to initiate video, read drives, etc.
>>
>> The fans will run fine at 10V or 14V, the processor will NOT run way
>> outside the specs.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>> On Jan 1, 2012, at 4:24 PM, Allan Streib wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Frederick  writes:
>>>
 Check the fan in the power supply.  However, once they go sprong,
 usually the 5V line in the PS is flaky and it won't boot because the
 processor voltage is too low.
>>>
>>> Power supply fan is working.  All the fans come on at full speed as
>>> soon
>>> as it's plugged in.
>>>
>>> Allan
>>>
>>> --
>>> 1983 300D
>>> 1979 300SD
>>>
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>>
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>

-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] W123 300TD - starts and dies - SOLVED!!


andrew strasfogel wrote:

There is no fuel leaking from around the hand pump when driving or with the
car at rest.  


That's because it's not under pressure, it's under partial vacuum.
As you have been told by several different people in the last couple of days, 
air can (and almost certainly is) leak into the fuel system at your failed hand 
pump.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Energy Victory?


Curt Raymond wrote:

I'd argue that we're in a jam because our idiot legislators (of all political stripes) 
have decided that compromise means "You give up and give me what I want"



I thought political compromise meant "I'll vote for your garbage bill if you'll 
vote for mine", or "If you hold the taxpayers down while I rape them, I'll hold 
them down  while you rape them".


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] W123 300TD - starts and dies - SOLVED!!

It won't leak screwed down, it only has suction applied to the seal.   
Leaks air in, not fuel out.  Only leaks fuel when you pull up the  
plunger and press down, when it leaks around the piston seal.


Peter

On Jan 2, 2012, at 5:34 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:


If it leaks when pumping you need a new one

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 2, 2012, at 4:12 PM, andrew strasfogel  
 wrote:


There is no fuel leaking from around the hand pump when driving or  
with the
car at rest.  My thinking is that when I pumped the primer pump  
into a
system that didn't need priming, the fuel already in the system  
had nowhere
to go but spill ll over the place.  Until then, I had only use the  
pump

after changing the main fuel filter.

On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 4:42 PM, Curt Raymond  
 wrote:


You've got broken handpumps, they shouldn't do that. I've had 3  
123 cars,

none had leaking handpumps.

Come and get the one off my '83...

-Curt

Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 13:09:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Dimitri Seretakis 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] W123 300TD - starts and dies - SOLVED!!
Message-ID:
   <1325538543.38574.yext-apple-iph...@web113213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On both my 123 240D and 115 220D fuel spills out around the hand  
pump

shortly after pumping. They've been doing that for years.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 2, 2012, at 3:55 PM, Curt Raymond   
wrote:


WHAT?

Andrew, seriously... You said "When I unscrewed fully and started  
pumping,
fuel overflowed immediately" that, my friend, is a leak. Its not  
supposed
to happen and it perfectly explains the complaint you had, whats  
going on

here? Are you just messing with us?

-Curt

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Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

The correction was for measuring side play at the end of the valve,  
not the diameters.


If you have a proper gauge and can measure the inner diameter of the  
guide you can calculate the clearance directly, but it requires a  
proper tool.


NOT dial calipers

Peter

On Jan 2, 2012, at 5:28 PM, Craig wrote:


On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 18:09:24 -0500 "Max Dillon"
 wrote:

Procedure 05-285 covers checking and replacing the valve guides,  
it says

that the intake guide inner diameter is 8.000mm to 8.030, exhaust is
9.000 to 9.050.  Is that the spec Peter's referring to?  I measured a
couple of the valve stem diameters, found them to be about 0.05mm  
less

than the guide spec (i.e. intake valve stem = 7.95mm).  0.05mm plus
0.03mm * 2 = 0.16mm = 0.006"


If you are measuring DIAMETERS, you don't need the factor of two.

8.030 - 7.950 = 0.08 mm => 0.00315 "


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] W123 300TD - starts and dies - SOLVED!!

2012-01-02 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin

If it leaks when pumping you need a new one

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 2, 2012, at 4:12 PM, andrew strasfogel  wrote:

> There is no fuel leaking from around the hand pump when driving or with the
> car at rest.  My thinking is that when I pumped the primer pump into a
> system that didn't need priming, the fuel already in the system had nowhere
> to go but spill ll over the place.  Until then, I had only use the pump
> after changing the main fuel filter.
> 
> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 4:42 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
>> You've got broken handpumps, they shouldn't do that. I've had 3 123 cars,
>> none had leaking handpumps.
>> 
>> Come and get the one off my '83...
>> 
>> -Curt
>> 
>> Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 13:09:03 -0800 (PST)
>> From: Dimitri Seretakis 
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] W123 300TD - starts and dies - SOLVED!!
>> Message-ID:
>><1325538543.38574.yext-apple-iph...@web113213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> 
>> On both my 123 240D and 115 220D fuel spills out around the hand pump
>> shortly after pumping. They've been doing that for years.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 2, 2012, at 3:55 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
>> 
>> WHAT?
>> 
>> Andrew, seriously... You said "When I unscrewed fully and started pumping,
>> fuel overflowed immediately" that, my friend, is a leak. Its not supposed
>> to happen and it perfectly explains the complaint you had, whats going on
>> here? Are you just messing with us?
>> 
>> -Curt
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Energy Victory?

We don't have affordable or adequate rail because we CHOSE to spend  
vast sums of money on air service instead, starting in the late  
40's.  Mail came off the express trains in the early 60s and killed  
of what was left of express service to keep the airlines operating.


The airlines have NEVER made money, nor will they, since it's too  
expensive per passenger, and all the mail is on board to sneak money  
in to float them.


Rail is vastly cheaper than roads when you include the price of cars  
and insurance that aren't needed when you ride the train, to say  
nothing of the lower maintenance costs.


Problem is we are 60 or more years behind on decent rail service, and  
nationalized the HIGHWAYS 150 years ago, while leaving the rails in  
private hands.  Only other nation on earth that did that was Great  
Britain, and they nationalized the railways in the 50s.


That's why the tracks only go where someone wanted to haul freight in  
1860.


Peter

On Jan 2, 2012, at 5:21 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:

Isn't this a chicken/egg thing? We have lousy rail service so  
nobody wants to ride it so our costs per passenger are high. The  
answer is simply more passengers but that requires making rail  
travel better which requires money...


Example, the Accela Express between Boston and NYC, I've ridden it  
a bunch. Takes 3 hours, why? Because the rails in CT suck. You're  
flying along, 150mph (clocked with my GPS) until you hit CT, WHOA  
NELLY! Slow down to 60mph because the tracks aren't welded. Then  
you get held up because the switching system is all old and  
outdated. Which state is the bulk of the ride through? CT of  
course. So upgrade CT, you shake 1 whole HOUR off the trip on the  
most popular and profitable service Amtrak has. However Amtrack  
works under all these weird public/private rules like the post  
office does so no-way.


Another good example, I was in Iowa. Wanted to go to Chicago.  
Amtrak is a good solution, its not that far, not that expensive.  
Strange problem, train doesn't go through Des Moines, it goes  
through Ottumwa. Can't return my rental car to Ottumwa, can't get a  
bus to Ottumwa, taxi or car service to Ottumwa is crazy expensive.
Simple solution? Run the train to the biggest dang city in the  
state. Why not? Well nobody in Iowa wants to ride the train. Funny  
how that works.


I do wish we had (or I knew how to get) real numbers on this kind  
of thing. I like rail and you're right it has plenty of  
limitations. It doesn't replace air service, done right it  
supplements it and does so well. The train to NYC is so much better  
because it goes into Manhattan which saves me a horrible $45 cab  
ride from the airport while costing about the same as the flight  
but being more comfortable and including wi-fi.



-Curt
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 15:42:47 -0700
From: G Mann 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Energy Victory?
Message-ID:
+bwp9ngmeemaudswdk1...@mail.gmail.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I'll take that challenge, TYVM.. Let's compare the total numbers of
passengers for each, on a passenger to dollar ratio.  I'm betting the
factual cost per passenger mile traveled and seat sold is far  
greater by
train, in public dollars expended.  Further, the greatest consumer  
of fuel
[besides trucking industry] is airlines. Millions of gallons of  
JetA are
purchased each daywith a hefty tax paid on each gallon by the  
flying
public [hidden in ticket costs]. Those fuel tax incomes fill the  
public
coffers far more than a train does.  So again [I'm not an  
accountant, and
this argument needs one to do the numbers] it appears that Airports  
are

self funding to a greater extent than trains.

Same argument can be made for the thousand of cars using public roads
Library tax anyone?  I pay it here.. bet you do also..
School tax... same..

I like your question, "where does it all end" to which I have  
no answer.


I do know without reservation that failure of government to  
practice sound

fiscal policy by spending more than they take in to push some social
engineering pet project has gotten us all in one hell of a mess...

Easy answers. Listening... Hoping but then,,, at one time I
believed in Santa Claus

Grant...
AZ

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Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 18:09:24 -0500 "Max Dillon"
 wrote:

> Procedure 05-285 covers checking and replacing the valve guides, it says
> that the intake guide inner diameter is 8.000mm to 8.030, exhaust is
> 9.000 to 9.050.  Is that the spec Peter's referring to?  I measured a
> couple of the valve stem diameters, found them to be about 0.05mm less
> than the guide spec (i.e. intake valve stem = 7.95mm).  0.05mm plus
> 0.03mm * 2 = 0.16mm = 0.006"

If you are measuring DIAMETERS, you don't need the factor of two.

8.030 - 7.950 = 0.08 mm => 0.00315 "


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Energy Victory?

Isn't this a chicken/egg thing? We have lousy rail service so nobody wants to 
ride it so our costs per passenger are high. The answer is simply more 
passengers but that requires making rail travel better which requires money...

Example, the Accela Express between Boston and NYC, I've ridden it a bunch. 
Takes 3 hours, why? Because the rails in CT suck. You're flying along, 150mph 
(clocked with my GPS) until you hit CT, WHOA NELLY! Slow down to 60mph because 
the tracks aren't welded. Then you get held up because the switching system is 
all old and outdated. Which state is the bulk of the ride through? CT of 
course. So upgrade CT, you shake 1 whole HOUR off the trip on the most popular 
and profitable service Amtrak has. However Amtrack works under all these weird 
public/private rules like the post office does so no-way.

Another good example, I was in Iowa. Wanted to go to Chicago. Amtrak is a good 
solution, its not that far, not that expensive. Strange problem, train doesn't 
go through Des Moines, it goes through Ottumwa. Can't return my rental car to 
Ottumwa, can't get a bus to Ottumwa, taxi or car service to Ottumwa is crazy 
expensive.
Simple solution? Run the train to the biggest dang city in the state. Why not? 
Well nobody in Iowa wants to ride the train. Funny how that works.

I do wish we had (or I knew how to get) real numbers on this kind of thing. I 
like rail and you're right it has plenty of limitations. It doesn't replace air 
service, done right it supplements it and does so well. The train to NYC is so 
much better because it goes into Manhattan which saves me a horrible $45 cab 
ride from the airport while costing about the same as the flight but being more 
comfortable and including wi-fi.


-Curt
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 15:42:47 -0700
From: G Mann 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Energy Victory?
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I'll take that challenge, TYVM.. Let's compare the total numbers of
passengers for each, on a passenger to dollar ratio.  I'm betting the
factual cost per passenger mile traveled and seat sold is far greater by
train, in public dollars expended.  Further, the greatest consumer of fuel
[besides trucking industry] is airlines. Millions of gallons of JetA are
purchased each daywith a hefty tax paid on each gallon by the flying
public [hidden in ticket costs]. Those fuel tax incomes fill the public
coffers far more than a train does.  So again [I'm not an accountant, and
this argument needs one to do the numbers] it appears that Airports are
self funding to a greater extent than trains.

Same argument can be made for the thousand of cars using public roads
Library tax anyone?  I pay it here.. bet you do also..
School tax... same..

I like your question, "where does it all end" to which I have no answer.

I do know without reservation that failure of government to practice sound
fiscal policy by spending more than they take in to push some social
engineering pet project has gotten us all in one hell of a mess...

Easy answers. Listening... Hoping but then,,, at one time I
believed in Santa Claus

Grant...
AZ

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Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

Look in the column labeled "overlap" -- that's the clearance between  
the valve diameter and guide diameter.  They have to be measured and  
fit individually, although usually MB guides are just about perfect  
out of the box.


Peter

On Jan 2, 2012, at 5:10 PM, Max Dillon wrote:


Got it, thanks!

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes- 
boun...@okiebenz.com]

On Behalf Of Peter Frederick
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 6:04 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

I sent it to you off list, let me know if it doesn't arrive.

Peter

On Jan 2, 2012, at 3:55 PM, Max Dillon wrote:


OK, I measured six valves at the head, found 0.007" for the tightest
and 0.020" for the sloppiest.  Accounting for the distance from the
guide by dividing by two would still put them all outside of the spec
you referenced.
Where can I find that specification?  Looks like time for a
professional shop to take over, I'd like to give them a copy of the
spec so they understand what I need done.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-
boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Peter Frederick
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 3:51 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

The specs for 61x engines is ZERO to 0.02 mm (0.0005").

Yes, that's correct, about 0.0005".  They aren't going to wear TIGHT,
after all, and have to seal against exhaust pressure.  If the oiled
valve stem
will go into the guide and the spring will close it, it's fine.
They will
NOT usually go in dry -- if they do, they are too loose.

The valves are chrome moly, they are only going to wear if something
harder than granular gray cast iron is used for the guide.

American machine shops are obsessed with sloppy valve guides and
"oiling"
the valve stems for some reason, they all want them rattling in the
guide and blowing like a steam engine exhaust.  Never could figure
that out, some shops will even spiral cut an "oil channel"
down the guide.

All it does is cause oil burning and bad compression, since the valve
cannot seal on a ring seat if it's at all off axis..

Peter

On Jan 2, 2012, at 2:14 PM, Max wrote:


Peter Frederick  wrote:

If you can feel movement of the valves in the guides AT ALL they  
are

way oversize.

Spec is 0.02 to 0.05mm new, you cannot feel that at all.  In fact,
if the valves won't stay up in the guide against the seat with the
spring out the guides are shot and need to be replaced.


Peter, .05 mm is less than .002 inches; that is really tight!
--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD
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Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

Got it, thanks!

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Peter Frederick
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 6:04 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

I sent it to you off list, let me know if it doesn't arrive.

Peter

On Jan 2, 2012, at 3:55 PM, Max Dillon wrote:

> OK, I measured six valves at the head, found 0.007" for the tightest 
> and 0.020" for the sloppiest.  Accounting for the distance from the 
> guide by dividing by two would still put them all outside of the spec 
> you referenced.
> Where can I find that specification?  Looks like time for a 
> professional shop to take over, I'd like to give them a copy of the 
> spec so they understand what I need done.
>
> -Max
>
> -Original Message-
> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes- 
> boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Peter Frederick
> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 3:51 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga
>
> The specs for 61x engines is ZERO to 0.02 mm (0.0005").
>
> Yes, that's correct, about 0.0005".  They aren't going to wear TIGHT, 
> after all, and have to seal against exhaust pressure.  If the oiled 
> valve stem
> will go into the guide and the spring will close it, it's fine.   
> They will
> NOT usually go in dry -- if they do, they are too loose.
>
> The valves are chrome moly, they are only going to wear if something 
> harder than granular gray cast iron is used for the guide.
>
> American machine shops are obsessed with sloppy valve guides and 
> "oiling"
> the valve stems for some reason, they all want them rattling in the 
> guide and blowing like a steam engine exhaust.  Never could figure 
> that out, some shops will even spiral cut an "oil channel"
> down the guide.
>
> All it does is cause oil burning and bad compression, since the valve 
> cannot seal on a ring seat if it's at all off axis..
>
> Peter
>
> On Jan 2, 2012, at 2:14 PM, Max wrote:
>
>> Peter Frederick  wrote:
>>
>>> If you can feel movement of the valves in the guides AT ALL they are 
>>> way oversize.
>>>
>>> Spec is 0.02 to 0.05mm new, you cannot feel that at all.  In fact, 
>>> if the valves won't stay up in the guide against the seat with the 
>>> spring out the guides are shot and need to be replaced.
>>
>> Peter, .05 mm is less than .002 inches; that is really tight!
>> --
>> Max Dillon
>> Charleston SC
>> '95 E300, '87 300TD
>> ___
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives 
>> http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
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>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

Procedure 05-285 covers checking and replacing the valve guides, it says
that the intake guide inner diameter is 8.000mm to 8.030, exhaust is 9.000
to 9.050.  Is that the spec Peter's referring to?  I measured a couple of
the valve stem diameters, found them to be about 0.05mm less than the guide
spec (i.e. intake valve stem = 7.95mm).  0.05mm plus 0.03mm * 2 = 0.16mm =
0.006"

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Max Dillon
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 4:55 PM
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

OK, I measured six valves at the head, found 0.007" for the tightest and
0.020" for the sloppiest.  Accounting for the distance from the guide by
dividing by two would still put them all outside of the spec you referenced.
Where can I find that specification?  Looks like time for a professional
shop to take over, I'd like to give them a copy of the spec so they
understand what I need done.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Peter Frederick
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 3:51 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

The specs for 61x engines is ZERO to 0.02 mm (0.0005").

Yes, that's correct, about 0.0005".  They aren't going to wear TIGHT, after
all, and have to seal against exhaust pressure.  If the oiled valve stem
will go into the guide and the spring will close it, it's fine.  They will
NOT usually go in dry -- if they do, they are too loose.

The valves are chrome moly, they are only going to wear if something harder
than granular gray cast iron is used for the guide.

American machine shops are obsessed with sloppy valve guides and "oiling"
the valve stems for some reason, they all want them rattling in the guide
and blowing like a steam engine exhaust.  Never could figure that out, some
shops will even spiral cut an "oil channel"  
down the guide.

All it does is cause oil burning and bad compression, since the valve cannot
seal on a ring seat if it's at all off axis..

Peter

On Jan 2, 2012, at 2:14 PM, Max wrote:

> Peter Frederick  wrote:
>
>> If you can feel movement of the valves in the guides AT ALL they are 
>> way oversize.
>>
>> Spec is 0.02 to 0.05mm new, you cannot feel that at all.  In fact, if 
>> the valves won't stay up in the guide against the seat with the 
>> spring out the guides are shot and need to be replaced.
>
> Peter, .05 mm is less than .002 inches; that is really tight!
> --
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '95 E300, '87 300TD
> ___
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives 
> http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
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> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga


I sent it to you off list, let me know if it doesn't arrive.

Peter

On Jan 2, 2012, at 3:55 PM, Max Dillon wrote:

OK, I measured six valves at the head, found 0.007" for the  
tightest and
0.020" for the sloppiest.  Accounting for the distance from the  
guide by
dividing by two would still put them all outside of the spec you  
referenced.
Where can I find that specification?  Looks like time for a  
professional

shop to take over, I'd like to give them a copy of the spec so they
understand what I need done.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes- 
boun...@okiebenz.com]

On Behalf Of Peter Frederick
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 3:51 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

The specs for 61x engines is ZERO to 0.02 mm (0.0005").

Yes, that's correct, about 0.0005".  They aren't going to wear  
TIGHT, after
all, and have to seal against exhaust pressure.  If the oiled valve  
stem
will go into the guide and the spring will close it, it's fine.   
They will

NOT usually go in dry -- if they do, they are too loose.

The valves are chrome moly, they are only going to wear if  
something harder

than granular gray cast iron is used for the guide.

American machine shops are obsessed with sloppy valve guides and  
"oiling"
the valve stems for some reason, they all want them rattling in the  
guide
and blowing like a steam engine exhaust.  Never could figure that  
out, some

shops will even spiral cut an "oil channel"
down the guide.

All it does is cause oil burning and bad compression, since the  
valve cannot

seal on a ring seat if it's at all off axis..

Peter

On Jan 2, 2012, at 2:14 PM, Max wrote:


Peter Frederick  wrote:


If you can feel movement of the valves in the guides AT ALL they are
way oversize.

Spec is 0.02 to 0.05mm new, you cannot feel that at all.  In  
fact, if

the valves won't stay up in the guide against the seat with the
spring out the guides are shot and need to be replaced.


Peter, .05 mm is less than .002 inches; that is really tight!
--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD
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Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga


Service manual.  I'll email you the one when I find it.

Peter


On Jan 2, 2012, at 3:55 PM, Max Dillon wrote:

OK, I measured six valves at the head, found 0.007" for the  
tightest and
0.020" for the sloppiest.  Accounting for the distance from the  
guide by
dividing by two would still put them all outside of the spec you  
referenced.
Where can I find that specification?  Looks like time for a  
professional

shop to take over, I'd like to give them a copy of the spec so they
understand what I need done.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes- 
boun...@okiebenz.com]

On Behalf Of Peter Frederick
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 3:51 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

The specs for 61x engines is ZERO to 0.02 mm (0.0005").

Yes, that's correct, about 0.0005".  They aren't going to wear  
TIGHT, after
all, and have to seal against exhaust pressure.  If the oiled valve  
stem
will go into the guide and the spring will close it, it's fine.   
They will

NOT usually go in dry -- if they do, they are too loose.

The valves are chrome moly, they are only going to wear if  
something harder

than granular gray cast iron is used for the guide.

American machine shops are obsessed with sloppy valve guides and  
"oiling"
the valve stems for some reason, they all want them rattling in the  
guide
and blowing like a steam engine exhaust.  Never could figure that  
out, some

shops will even spiral cut an "oil channel"
down the guide.

All it does is cause oil burning and bad compression, since the  
valve cannot

seal on a ring seat if it's at all off axis..

Peter

On Jan 2, 2012, at 2:14 PM, Max wrote:


Peter Frederick  wrote:


If you can feel movement of the valves in the guides AT ALL they are
way oversize.

Spec is 0.02 to 0.05mm new, you cannot feel that at all.  In  
fact, if

the valves won't stay up in the guide against the seat with the
spring out the guides are shot and need to be replaced.


Peter, .05 mm is less than .002 inches; that is really tight!
--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD
___

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Re: [MBZ] Carburetor Trouble

Might be worth a try at your FLAP in the help isle. Look for a "choke
conversion kit" to give you either replacement parts for the automatic
choke OR an actual mechanical arm to choke cable.

If it's not on the isle, could be worth a search through the parts books.
I suggest a NAPA store might yield the part you need.

Good luck,
Grant...

On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 3:32 PM, Greg Fiorentino wrote:

> It looks like a new one could be machined from Aluminum (6061 alloy would
> be
> good) or machinable plastic.  PEEK is an expensive but easily machineable
> plastic that is temperature resistant to 250 C.
>
> Greg
>
> -Original Message-
> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
> On Behalf Of Jerry Herrman
> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 9:35 AM
> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Subject: [MBZ] Carburetor Trouble
>
> RE: Autolite 2100 Carburetor - 72 Ford F250
>
> I have now isolated my immediate problem to a plastic part of the choke
> mechanism which has broken off and allows the choke to fall into whatever
> unregulated position it feels like.
> So my question now is: anyone know where I can get a replacement for this
> part? I presume it would not be included in a carb kit.
>
> And why make a part out of plastic knowing that in 40 years it will weaken
> and break?
>
> In order to show pictures of the broken part, I set up a Craigslist ad with
> the pics included. I don't expect a response from the ad, its just a way to
> make the pictures available. Here is the reference:
>
> http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/pts/2776967833.html
>
> My spouse would like me to  get rid of the truck, which we don't use
> anymore. Are there individuals out there that still want an old truck with
> such poor gas mileage, given the direction of gas prices?
>
>
>
>
> Jerry
> 82 240D
>
>
> __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature
> database 6757 (20111231) __
>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Energy Victory?

I'll take that challenge, TYVM.. Let's compare the total numbers of
passengers for each, on a passenger to dollar ratio.  I'm betting the
factual cost per passenger mile traveled and seat sold is far greater by
train, in public dollars expended.  Further, the greatest consumer of fuel
[besides trucking industry] is airlines. Millions of gallons of JetA are
purchased each daywith a hefty tax paid on each gallon by the flying
public [hidden in ticket costs]. Those fuel tax incomes fill the public
coffers far more than a train does.  So again [I'm not an accountant, and
this argument needs one to do the numbers] it appears that Airports are
self funding to a greater extent than trains.

Same argument can be made for the thousand of cars using public roads
Library tax anyone?  I pay it here.. bet you do also..
School tax... same..

I like your question, "where does it all end" to which I have no answer.

I do know without reservation that failure of government to practice sound
fiscal policy by spending more than they take in to push some social
engineering pet project has gotten us all in one hell of a mess...

Easy answers. Listening... Hoping but then,,, at one time I
believed in Santa Claus

Grant...
AZ

On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 12:51 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

> I get what you're saying but would counter that we should end all
> subsidies for air travel. We spend more on airports per annum than we've
> spent on Amtrak total, without even beginning to talk about security. Air
> travel should pay for itself, otherwise its not viable. Airline tickets are
> artificially low because the ticket price doesn't account for the cost to
> run the airport, the air traffic control or security, including TSA and the
> State Police presence.
>
> But where does it end? Should we end any subsidy for roads? Should roads
> be forced to be paid for only by fuel taxes? Actually I'd like to know if
> thats possible, do our legislators siphon that money off to pay for other
> stuff while letting our roads and bridges crumble?
>
> Does "Social Engineering" include museums, aquariums and the like? I'm
> fairly libertarian but I do see where much of that contributes to the
> common good, in the same way public schools do, or should anyway.
>
> -Curt
>
> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 18:30:41 -0700
> From: G Mann 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Energy Victory?
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Regardless of what justification you make, I object to taxation for social
> engineering.
>
> For example, Government mandated, corn based ethanol, has destroyed the
> food chain of farmer to food market. That program supports the huge
> commercial farming operations of such companies as ADM, Cargyl, and others.
> It kills the family farmer. Your desire to "live small" is your individual
> choice and mandating it on everyone else through enforced "carbon taxation"
> or some other social engineering scheme simply insults me.
>
> In case you have not noticed.. America is a huge county with distance
> measured in hours from point to point, not miles.  The highway system
> supports that. Public transport does not. America has cities the size of
> entire countries in Europe. Those cities are not built around a "central
> hub" where the citizens all go for goods and services.
>
> Example: Local city just put in a "light rail" system, about 40 miles,
> which cost the taxpayers 80 BILLION dollars. Every street that has "light
> rail" closed businesses since they could not exist for 2 yrs while it was
> being built and traffic was closed. Now the "light rail" is failing to
> support it's self cause there are no businesses to travel to along the
> route, and no one riding it.  BUT, we spent 80 BILLION dollars to have it.
> In practical fact, we could send a limo and driver to every rider for next
> 40 years and still not spend 80 BILLION dollars. But government heads don't
> think in practical fact, do they.
> 
>
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Re: [MBZ] Carburetor Trouble

On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 14:32:53 -0800 "Greg Fiorentino"
 wrote:

> It looks like a new one could be machined from Aluminum (6061 alloy
> would be good) or machinable plastic.  PEEK is an expensive but easily
> machineable plastic that is temperature resistant to 250 C.

If you do get PEEK, which I have ordered for projects at work for its
electrical properties, make sure you get the fiber-reinforced variety.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Carburetor Trouble

2012-01-02 Thread Greg Fiorentino

It looks like a new one could be machined from Aluminum (6061 alloy would be
good) or machinable plastic.  PEEK is an expensive but easily machineable
plastic that is temperature resistant to 250 C.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Jerry Herrman
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 9:35 AM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: [MBZ] Carburetor Trouble

RE: Autolite 2100 Carburetor - 72 Ford F250

I have now isolated my immediate problem to a plastic part of the choke
mechanism which has broken off and allows the choke to fall into whatever
unregulated position it feels like.
So my question now is: anyone know where I can get a replacement for this
part? I presume it would not be included in a carb kit.

And why make a part out of plastic knowing that in 40 years it will weaken
and break?

In order to show pictures of the broken part, I set up a Craigslist ad with
the pics included. I don't expect a response from the ad, its just a way to
make the pictures available. Here is the reference:

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/pts/2776967833.html

My spouse would like me to  get rid of the truck, which we don't use
anymore. Are there individuals out there that still want an old truck with
such poor gas mileage, given the direction of gas prices?




Jerry
82 240D


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The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender

2012-01-02 Thread Greg Fiorentino

Thanks and please keep us updated on the outcome of this case.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Scott Ritchey
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 9:35 AM
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender

This story continues to unfold (see attached article from today's paper).  

The "second" suspect (Terry) is now in custody and two others were named and
are being sought.  I suspect this Terry guy was the ring leader; he sounds
like a major-league repeat offender, consider these excerpts:

   "Terry was also wanted for a previous breaking-and-entering that occurred
at a Parham Road residence on Nov. 14..."

   "Court records indicate Terry had been charged with more than a dozen
previous break-in and theft felonies in recent years"

   "[Terry] was recently released from serving concurrent 9-11 month
sentences for break-in and theft convictions ... when released on Feb. 9,
2010 "

   "Terry also served a 9-11 month sentence for a previous felony break-in
case ... when he was released on Feb. 4, 2009"

   "He had been given two previous suspended sentences on previous felony
theft cases."

Now second chances are one thing but IMO we need a better solution when
crime has become a way of life.

Scott

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Craig
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 12:31 PM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender

On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 11:54:04 -0500 "Scott and Gwen Ritchey"
 wrote:

> Got a haircut today and my barber seemed somewhat preoccupied.  Turns
> out that an hour earlier, his grand nephew shot and killed one of
> several intruders.  The grand nephew (age 14) and his sister (who was
> taking a shower at the time) were home alone when they were startled by
> several armed intruders who burst into the house.  The kid shot the one
> but the others ran; the sheriff was searching for them last I heard.

The article implies there were only two, but why did they post a picture
of the house and give the address and names of the owners?

> I hope the kid doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this
> but otherwise I consider it a very satisfactory solution to a bad
> situation.

I wonder where the shotgun was positioned so the lad could get access to
it without getting shot by the intruders. Yes, it was a very satisfactory
solution. The fellow's rap sheet shows that he was indeed a repeat
offender. I pray the lad doesn't have any long-term psychological damage
from this as well.

> http://tinyurl.com/ck2rx5m

>From the comments to the article, it seems that Vance County has had a
problem with this type of thing for quite a while.

Craig

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-- next part --
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: The Daily Dispatch - Suspect arrested in home invasion that led to
fatal shooting two more sought.txt
URL:

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Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender

Sorry, I didn't make my point apparently.  Thanks for bringing it better in
focus.

The issue I see is the standard for criminal charges is quite high. It
requires "beyond all reasonable doubt".  It is my considered opinion that
standard is NOT met by the video. The fact that it appears the store owner
felt the need to obtain further sufficient ammunition gives reasonable
doubt that he was under continued threat for his life.  We do NOT see the
assailant who is wounded and on the floor, but we do see that he was armed
and shooting when he went down. Is he dead? Reasonable doubt dictates that
we do not know the exact time of his death.  Nor do we know if he continued
to attack from a prone position by displaying his weapon in threatening
manner... again, reasonable doubt.

Fact: The store owner continued to defend himself, which gives weight to
the argument the assailant continued to be a viable threat to his life.
Again, reasonable doubt, to the validity of the argument of "anger and
unnecessary violence".

Rule #1:  In a gunfight... always have a gun.
Rule #2:  In a gunfight, second place is not acceptable.
Rule #3:  Revert to rule #1 as long as it takes to gain First place finish.

It's very evident from the onset of the tape the two individuals are not a
couple of Jehovas` Witnesses passing out religious tracts.

I rest my case.

Judge:  Tell me Mrs. Jones, why did you shoot the rapist 6 times.
Mrs. Jones: Your Honor, when I pulled the trigger the 7th, 8th. & 9th
time,, it just went click ,click, click.

Grant...
AZ... Where we DO have the castle doctrine law and both open and discrete
carry with no permit requirement.  Under state law, my person is my castle
regardless of my location.

On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

> I'm with Grant on this one, the red curtain comes down and some people
> wake up later thinking "What the hell happened?" I've read many reports of
> people getting off. The "he had it coming" defense is just stupid.
>
> Its the second magazine that did it. I can vaugely remember a similar case
> (might even be this case) where getting the second magazine to keep
> shooting got somebody in trouble.
>
> I totally get what happened, the guy defends himself, the intruder is
> dead, adrenaline is PUMPING and the defender is now jacked with nothing to
> do but stand around. Anybody who's been in a fight where the police scared
> everybody off knows what I'm talking about.
>
> -Curt
>
> Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 12:23:51 -0600
> From: Randy Bennell 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
> Message-ID: <4f01f637.4040...@bennell.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> You can "not agree" all you want but the bottom line is that you are
> entitled to defend yourself in a reasonable manner with a reasonable
> amount of force. If you go beyond what is considered to be reasonable,
> then you may end up paying the price for your actions.
> Shoot the bad guy once and no one is likely to blame you if he is
> pointing a gun at you at the time. Shoot him a dozen times after he is
> flat out on the floor, and you look about as bad as he did.
> I watched the video and thought, if it was me, I might have been more
> concerned that the other guy might come back for his buddy. Had he shot
> him too, it might have been acceptable but to shoot the guy who was
> already down a number of times is just not acceptable in the eyes of
> most reasonable people.
> The same thing goes with beating someone up. If you get in a fist fight
> and knock the other fellow out, you had best not put the boots to him
> and lay a big beating on him. You were entitled to defend yourself but
> not entitled to carry on and kill or maim the other person.
>
> Grab a rope or some tape and tie him up or whatever until the police get
> there to deal with it.
>
> Randy
>
> On 02/01/2012 12:08 PM, G Mann wrote:
> > I do not agree. "obvious anger and intent" comment fails to take into
> > effect the trauma of being confronted with imminent death by the now
> > deceased assailant. A lawyer who properly represented his wrongfully
> > charged client could and should have made a strong and effective case of
> > the total fear and trauma induced by the robber and how his client needed
> > to make sure the assailant was truly not able to do him harm.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> > Grant...
>
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Re: [MBZ] W123 300TD - starts and dies - SOLVED!!

Ahh but that forgets the function of the cigar hose which is to send fuel on 
its route back to the tank. There should be no leakage, you know the filter is 
full because you hear the overflow valve rattle as you pump and fuel starts 
returning to the tank.

-Curt

Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 17:12:34 -0500
From: andrew strasfogel 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] W123 300TD - starts and dies - SOLVED!!
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

There is no fuel leaking from around the hand pump when driving or with the
car at rest.  My thinking is that when I pumped the primer pump into a
system that didn't need priming, the fuel already in the system had nowhere
to go but spill ll over the place.  Until then, I had only use the pump
after changing the main fuel filter.

On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 4:42 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

> You've got broken handpumps, they shouldn't do that. I've had 3 123 cars,
> none had leaking handpumps.
>
> Come and get the one off my '83...
>
> -Curt

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Re: [MBZ] Chrysler 200

Is that what that is? I drove by today and wondered...
I'll see about it.

-Curt

Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 16:26:45 -0500
From: Rich Thomas 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Chrysler 200
Message-ID: <4f022115.3040...@constructivity.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

You should go do the BMW factory tour

--R

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Re: [MBZ] W123 300TD - starts and dies - SOLVED!!

On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 17:12:34 -0500 andrew strasfogel
 wrote:

> There is no fuel leaking from around the hand pump when driving or with
> the car at rest.  My thinking is that when I pumped the primer pump
> into a system that didn't need priming, the fuel already in the system
> had nowhere to go but spill ll over the place.  Until then, I had only
> use the pump after changing the main fuel filter.

Your thinking was wrong, the fuel should never leak out.

Replace the primer pump!


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] W123 300TD - starts and dies - SOLVED!!

There is no fuel leaking from around the hand pump when driving or with the
car at rest.  My thinking is that when I pumped the primer pump into a
system that didn't need priming, the fuel already in the system had nowhere
to go but spill ll over the place.  Until then, I had only use the pump
after changing the main fuel filter.

On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 4:42 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

> You've got broken handpumps, they shouldn't do that. I've had 3 123 cars,
> none had leaking handpumps.
>
> Come and get the one off my '83...
>
> -Curt
>
> Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 13:09:03 -0800 (PST)
> From: Dimitri Seretakis 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] W123 300TD - starts and dies - SOLVED!!
> Message-ID:
> <1325538543.38574.yext-apple-iph...@web113213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> On both my 123 240D and 115 220D fuel spills out around the hand pump
> shortly after pumping. They've been doing that for years.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 2, 2012, at 3:55 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
>
> WHAT?
>
> Andrew, seriously... You said "When I unscrewed fully and started pumping,
> fuel overflowed immediately" that, my friend, is a leak. Its not supposed
> to happen and it perfectly explains the complaint you had, whats going on
> here? Are you just messing with us?
>
> -Curt
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

OK, I measured six valves at the head, found 0.007" for the tightest and
0.020" for the sloppiest.  Accounting for the distance from the guide by
dividing by two would still put them all outside of the spec you referenced.
Where can I find that specification?  Looks like time for a professional
shop to take over, I'd like to give them a copy of the spec so they
understand what I need done.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Peter Frederick
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 3:51 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

The specs for 61x engines is ZERO to 0.02 mm (0.0005").

Yes, that's correct, about 0.0005".  They aren't going to wear TIGHT, after
all, and have to seal against exhaust pressure.  If the oiled valve stem
will go into the guide and the spring will close it, it's fine.  They will
NOT usually go in dry -- if they do, they are too loose.

The valves are chrome moly, they are only going to wear if something harder
than granular gray cast iron is used for the guide.

American machine shops are obsessed with sloppy valve guides and "oiling"
the valve stems for some reason, they all want them rattling in the guide
and blowing like a steam engine exhaust.  Never could figure that out, some
shops will even spiral cut an "oil channel"  
down the guide.

All it does is cause oil burning and bad compression, since the valve cannot
seal on a ring seat if it's at all off axis..

Peter

On Jan 2, 2012, at 2:14 PM, Max wrote:

> Peter Frederick  wrote:
>
>> If you can feel movement of the valves in the guides AT ALL they are 
>> way oversize.
>>
>> Spec is 0.02 to 0.05mm new, you cannot feel that at all.  In fact, if 
>> the valves won't stay up in the guide against the seat with the 
>> spring out the guides are shot and need to be replaced.
>
> Peter, .05 mm is less than .002 inches; that is really tight!
> --
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '95 E300, '87 300TD
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Re: [MBZ] Chrysler 200

Sadly I'm here for work.

Get your local TV station to buy Avid systems (specifically ISIS without 
Interplay) and I might be the trainer and get shipped in.

-Curt


Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 16:19:53 -0500
From: Max 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Chrysler 200
Message-ID: <4a4bf942-7cc8-4276-a699-8aed46c12...@email.android.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Only half a days drive to Charleston, come on down!
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD

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Re: [MBZ] Chrysler 200

I suppose you're right. They've got the Fiat 500 for the micro-mini too.

Speaking of which, I've never driven one but I have ridden in one, they are a 
hoot. Crazy little car, hope we get the Abarth version.

-Curt

Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 13:17:45 -0800
From: Alex Chamberlain 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Chrysler 200
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Jan 2, 2012 12:24 PM, "Curt Raymond"  wrote:
>
> , Chrysler hasn't made a good small car since the Neon and they weren't
exactly anything to crow about.
>

The 200 is a midsize by modern standards.  Replaces the Avenger/Sebring.
The Dart coming out for the 2013 model year is the new small car,
replacing the Caliber (which was derived from the Neon platform--the Dart
is totally different, a restyled Alfa Romeo Giulia).

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] W123 300TD - starts and dies - SOLVED!!

You've got broken handpumps, they shouldn't do that. I've had 3 123 cars, none 
had leaking handpumps.

Come and get the one off my '83...

-Curt

Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 13:09:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Dimitri Seretakis 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] W123 300TD - starts and dies - SOLVED!!
Message-ID:
<1325538543.38574.yext-apple-iph...@web113213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On both my 123 240D and 115 220D fuel spills out around the hand pump shortly 
after pumping. They've been doing that for years.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 2, 2012, at 3:55 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

WHAT?

Andrew, seriously... You said "When I unscrewed fully and started pumping, fuel 
overflowed immediately" that, my friend, is a leak. Its not supposed to happen 
and it perfectly explains the complaint you had, whats going on here? Are you 
just messing with us?

-Curt

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Energy Victory?

I'd argue that we're in a jam because our idiot legislators (of all political 
stripes) have decided that compromise means "You give up and give me what I 
want" which of course neither side is willing to do.

So rather than getting balanced legislation the parties wait until they have a 
lock and then push through garbage. The American people give the political 
pendulum a swing the other way and we get opposite legislation which sucks just 
as bad but with a different slant.

The best thing that could happen in 2012 is that the senate go Republican and 
Obama get re-elected. Alternately elect a Republican (I don't really care who, 
they're largely the same, except for Ron Paul) and keep the house and senate 
Democrat. Only when power is divided do we see any compromise and only when we 
get compromise do we get any reasonably balanced laws.

I'm not voting FOR anybody in 2012, I'm voting AGAINST incumbents.

-Curt

Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 16:00:49 -0500
From: "Allan Streib" 
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Energy Victory?
Message-ID:
<1325538049.20701.140661018431...@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I'd not argue that we need to let children starve in order to fix our financial 
problems.  I'd argue this is better handled at the state a and local levels, 
but anyway AFDC is not a big part of the problem.

These appeal-to-sympathy straw man arguments are part of the reason we are in 
such a jam.

On Mon, Jan 2, 2012, at 12:52 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:
> I agree, we have no money but its not as easy as saying "we'll just stop 
> paying for everything" you can't just turn off the tap.
>
> You know about how people get broken out into hedgehogs and foxes?
> Foxes like to speak in soundbites, everything is easy and simple one liners. 
> Hedgehogs explain, they see everything in shades of gray, they understand 
> that there are no easy answers.
>
> I've always wanted to take one of those politicians that says "We need 
> welfare reform, cut welfare!" and stand 'em up with a little kid that eats to 
> eat because of welfare and give the kid an apple and say to the politician 
> "Okay Mr. Bigshot, take the apple from the kid." Same with an "illegal 
> immigrant" who came here when he/she was 3 years old and has never known a 
> life other than America (somewhere in the heartland, like Kansas) and say 
> "Okay bigshot, send 'em to Tijuana where their expected lifespan is 2 weeks, 
> you explain why they need to go become a drug whore."
>
> Of course it'd never work but its an interesting dream.
>
> -Curt

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Re: [MBZ] OT Magnum

On Jan 1, 2012 7:51 PM, "Rich Thomas" 
wrote:
>
>  I had not seen one of those things in like 30 years.

I don't think I've ever seen one, but I remember well its successor, the
Mirada (and the scathing review of it in Car&  Driver that ridiculed
Chrysler's attempt to market the thing as a European-style GT a la the SEC
or BMW 6 series).

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Energy Victory?

Sheesh I'd plum forgotten how we encourage home ownership (and inadvertently 
encourage larger homes), it'd be hilarious (from an irony point of view) to use 
my idea to encourage people to give up on home ownership while still 
encouraging home ownership...

-Curt

Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 15:45:25 -0500
From: Mitch Haley 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Energy Victory?
Message-ID: <4f021765.3040...@voyager.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Curt Raymond wrote:

> Does "Social Engineering" include museums, aquariums and the like? I'm fairly 
> libertarian but I do see where much of that contributes to the common good, 
> in the same way public schools do, or should anyway.

I think he was talking about using the tax codes for social engineering.

Examples:

1. Home ownership is good, therefore we will subsidize home ownership expenses
via the personal income tax.

2. Health insurance is good, therefore we will tax those who don't want to buy 
it.

3. Climate change is bad, and CO2 causes 1-2% of it, so we will tax the heck out
of anybody who burns petroleum or coal.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT Guns and idiots don't mix

Wonder if they bothered to check his BAL, you know, like they would to 
you or me...


--R

On 1/2/12 2:46 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:

Sheesh,
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/20220102kin_want_probe_in_moms_shooting_staties_off-duty_trooper_accidentally_wounded_norton_woman_while_hunting/srvc=home&position=4

More proof of my contention that many of "our finest" are absolute morons.

-Curt


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Re: [MBZ] OT Magnum

This one was gray with black accents (or something), the paint was nice 
but what it was on was sorta eye-numbing.


--R

On 1/2/12 3:06 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:

I had to look that up, all I could think of was the station wagon from a few 
years ago.
Turns out a friend had one just after we graduated from High school. His was 
mighty hard on starters. If the engine was hot it wouldn't crank. Replace the 
starter and it'd be good for a few months but pretty soon we'd be planning our 
trips around 2 hour breaks with the hood up.
It was 70's vintage and looked just like the red on in the Wikipedia article. 
I'd thought it had a 6 cyl but wiki says no. It was kinda gutless so I'd guess 
it had a clapped out 318.

-Curt

Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2012 22:50:53 -0500
From: Rich Thomas
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: [MBZ] OT Magnum
Message-ID:<4f01299d.1020...@constructivity.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

No, not the "family planning" product  I went to the store this
evening to drop off some DVDs at the Redbox, and this guy was sitting
there in a Dodge Magnum that was in beautiful condition.  The car itself
is rather disastrous from a styling standpoint, but I had not seen one
of those things in like 30 years.  Not sure what year it was, maybe
early/mid 70s?  I think they had the huge motors in them, the 440?  I
did not talk to the guy, I'll try if I see him again.

--R

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Re: [MBZ] W123 300TD - starts and dies - SOLVED!!

2012-01-02 Thread Fmiser

> Dimitri Seretakis wrote:

> On both my 123 240D and 115 220D fuel spills out around the
> hand pump shortly after pumping. They've been doing that for
> years.

And if the fuel leaks out, air can leak in.  This is not good.
I advise replacing it with the new style.

Mercedes part number 000-090-88-50, approx. $20.

--  Philip



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Re: [MBZ] Chrysler 200


You should go do the BMW factory tour

--R

On 1/2/12 3:24 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:

I'm in Greenville, SC this week, drove out from Charlotte this morning in a 
Chrysler 200 and I'll be dammed but I actually kinda like that little car.

Its ugly but its reasonably comfortable. I think its got a 4cyl but I haven't 
popped the hood yet. It kicks out of OD on the highway a lot, clearly not a big 
block, but its reasonably peppy.

Satellite radio which is even enabled (a crap shoot on a rental), unfortunately 
the screen on the radio is small so its a bit hard to get the station 
description. Of course its got lousy rear sight lines because the rear window 
is small and the trunk lid is high but it makes up for it with decent side 
mirrors. Not bad rear seat space for a small car and (this is big for me) the 
front seats push way back so I don't feel real cramped though it is a small 
car. Of course the upholstery is cheap but its a low end car.

All in all I wouldn't rush out and buy one but its not bad, Chrysler hasn't 
made a good small car since the Neon and they weren't exactly anything to crow 
about.

The bigger question is how Avis chooses what car to give me. 3 weeks ago in San 
Francisco they gave me a Mustang...

-Curt

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Re: [MBZ] W123 300TD - starts and dies - SOLVED!!

2012-01-02 Thread Fmiser

> > > > andrew strasfogel  writes:
> > > >
> > > > Yep.  When I unscrewed fully and started pumping, fuel
> > > > overflowed immediately, around the hand pump.

> > > Curt Raymond wrote:
> > >
> > > ...it means your hand pump leaks.

> > Fmiser wrote:
> >
> > More significant that fuel leaking OUT is that it is highly
> > likely that if the fuel can get out then air can leak IN.
> > This is not good.
> >
> > I advise replacing the primer pump right away.
> >
> > Mercedes part number 000-090-88-50, my notes say the price is
> > about $20.00

> andrew strasfogel wrote:

> There are no leaks that I can see but I will do so any way

Now I'm confused.  I thought you said,
  "When I unscrewed fully and started pumping, fuel overflowed
   immediately, around the hand pump."

I read that as meaning the fuel is not staying in the pipes
and hoses - that is, it's leaking.  But now you say you don't
see any leaks.

--  Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Chrysler 200

Only half a days drive to Charleston, come on down!
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD
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Re: [MBZ] Chrysler 200

On Jan 2, 2012 12:24 PM, "Curt Raymond"  wrote:
>
> , Chrysler hasn't made a good small car since the Neon and they weren't
exactly anything to crow about.
>

The 200 is a midsize by modern standards.  Replaces the Avenger/Sebring.
The Dart coming out for the 2013 model year is the new small car,
replacing the Caliber (which was derived from the Neon platform--the Dart
is totally different, a restyled Alfa Romeo Giulia).

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] W123 300TD - starts and dies - SOLVED!!

2012-01-02 Thread Dimitri Seretakis

On both my 123 240D and 115 220D fuel spills out around the hand pump shortly 
after pumping. They've been doing that for years.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 2, 2012, at 3:55 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

WHAT?

Andrew, seriously... You said "When I unscrewed fully and started pumping, fuel 
overflowed immediately" that, my friend, is a leak. Its not supposed to happen 
and it perfectly explains the complaint you had, whats going on here? Are you 
just messing with us?

-Curt

Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 15:04:59 -0500
From: andrew strasfogel 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] W123 300TD - starts and dies - SOLVED!!
Message-ID:
   
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

There are no leaks that I can see but I will do so any way

On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 9:12 PM, Fmiser  wrote:

andrew strasfogel  writes:

Yep.  When I unscrewed fully and started pumping, fuel
overflowed immediately, around the hand pump.  Doesn't that
mean that the fuel delivery system is properly functioning?

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Energy Victory?

I'd not argue that we need to let children starve in order to fix our financial 
problems.  I'd argue this is better handled at the state a and local levels, 
but anyway AFDC is not a big part of the problem.

These appeal-to-sympathy straw man arguments are part of the reason we are in 
such a jam.



On Mon, Jan 2, 2012, at 12:52 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:
> I agree, we have no money but its not as easy as saying "we'll just stop 
> paying for everything" you can't just turn off the tap.
> 
> You know about how people get broken out into hedgehogs and foxes?
> Foxes like to speak in soundbites, everything is easy and simple one liners. 
> Hedgehogs explain, they see everything in shades of gray, they understand 
> that there are no easy answers.
> 
> I've always wanted to take one of those politicians that says "We need 
> welfare reform, cut welfare!" and stand 'em up with a little kid that eats to 
> eat because of welfare and give the kid an apple and say to the politician 
> "Okay Mr. Bigshot, take the apple from the kid." Same with an "illegal 
> immigrant" who came here when he/she was 3 years old and has never known a 
> life other than America (somewhere in the heartland, like Kansas) and say 
> "Okay bigshot, send 'em to Tijuana where their expected lifespan is 2 weeks, 
> you explain why they need to go become a drug whore."
> 
> Of course it'd never work but its an interesting dream.
> 
> -Curt

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Re: [MBZ] W123 300TD - starts and dies - SOLVED!!

WHAT?

Andrew, seriously... You said "When I unscrewed fully and started pumping, fuel 
overflowed immediately" that, my friend, is a leak. Its not supposed to happen 
and it perfectly explains the complaint you had, whats going on here? Are you 
just messing with us?

-Curt

Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 15:04:59 -0500
From: andrew strasfogel 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] W123 300TD - starts and dies - SOLVED!!
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

There are no leaks that I can see but I will do so any way

On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 9:12 PM, Fmiser  wrote:

> > > andrew strasfogel  writes:
> > >
> > > Yep.  When I unscrewed fully and started pumping, fuel
> > > overflowed immediately, around the hand pump.  Doesn't that
> > > mean that the fuel delivery system is properly functioning?

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Energy Victory?

I agree, we have no money but its not as easy as saying "we'll just stop paying 
for everything" you can't just turn off the tap.

You know about how people get broken out into hedgehogs and foxes?
Foxes like to speak in soundbites, everything is easy and simple one liners. 
Hedgehogs explain, they see everything in shades of gray, they understand that 
there are no easy answers.

I've always wanted to take one of those politicians that says "We need welfare 
reform, cut welfare!" and stand 'em up with a little kid that eats to eat 
because of welfare and give the kid an apple and say to the politician "Okay 
Mr. Bigshot, take the apple from the kid." Same with an "illegal immigrant" who 
came here when he/she was 3 years old and has never known a life other than 
America (somewhere in the heartland, like Kansas) and say "Okay bigshot, send 
'em to Tijuana where their expected lifespan is 2 weeks, you explain why they 
need to go become a drug whore."

Of course it'd never work but its an interesting dream.

-Curt

Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 15:04:58 -0500
From: "Allan Streib" 
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Energy Victory?
Message-ID:
<1325534698.8035.140661018413...@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I would counter, does a debt approaching 20 TRILLION dollars makes sense for 
the items you've listed?

Yes, people who use air travel (passengers and freight shippers) should pay the 
cost.  We will as a population pick up some of that naturally in the increased 
cost of shipped goods.  No taxation is necessary.

Ditto roads, fuel taxes sounds like a great way, siphoning these into the 
general fund should be prohibited, with privately operated toll roads where 
feasible.

Museums, aquariums ... how often do you visit these?  A few times a year?  You 
still pay for admission in most places, why not make these places pay their own 
way.  Are you happy borrowing from China and making your great grandchildren 
pay for your museum experience today?

WE HAVE NO MONEY.  We need to STOP SPENDING money on non-essentials.  Sadly I 
don't hold out a lot of hope for this happening.




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Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga


The specs for 61x engines is ZERO to 0.02 mm (0.0005").

Yes, that's correct, about 0.0005".  They aren't going to wear TIGHT,  
after all, and have to seal against exhaust pressure.  If the oiled  
valve stem will go into the guide and the spring will close it, it's  
fine.  They will NOT usually go in dry -- if they do, they are too  
loose.


The valves are chrome moly, they are only going to wear if something  
harder than granular gray cast iron is used for the guide.


American machine shops are obsessed with sloppy valve guides and  
"oiling" the valve stems for some reason, they all want them rattling  
in the guide and blowing like a steam engine exhaust.  Never could  
figure that out, some shops will even spiral cut an "oil channel"  
down the guide.


All it does is cause oil burning and bad compression, since the valve  
cannot seal on a ring seat if it's at all off axis..


Peter

On Jan 2, 2012, at 2:14 PM, Max wrote:


Peter Frederick  wrote:


If you can feel movement of the valves in the guides AT ALL they are
way oversize.

Spec is 0.02 to 0.05mm new, you cannot feel that at all.  In fact, if
the valves won't stay up in the guide against the seat with the
spring out the guides are shot and need to be replaced.


Peter, .05 mm is less than .002 inches; that is really tight!
--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Energy Victory?


Curt Raymond wrote:


Does "Social Engineering" include museums, aquariums and the like? I'm fairly 
libertarian but I do see where much of that contributes to the common good, in the same 
way public schools do, or should anyway.


I think he was talking about using the tax codes for social engineering.

Examples:

1. Home ownership is good, therefore we will subsidize home ownership expenses 
via the personal income tax.


2. Health insurance is good, therefore we will tax those who don't want to buy 
it.

3. Climate change is bad, and CO2 causes 1-2% of it, so we will tax the heck out 
of anybody who burns petroleum or coal.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender


G Mann wrote:

It's easy to Monday morning quarterback the incident on tape. What is not
easy is to put yourself in the mans shoes.  Have you ever been shot at from
close range?  Just how threatened would you be if two armed guys, intent on
shooting you, simply started shooting directly at you?


In this country, only those with years of training and experience (and badges) 
get a free pass for doing things wrong in the heat of the moment and somebody 
else dies from it.
Those who don't make a profession out of 'use of force' must be perfect in every 
way or go to jail. I'm not saying it's fair,nor am I saying I have any tolerance 
for it, but I'm in the minority or it never would have become like this.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender

On Mon, Jan 2, 2012, at 12:13 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:

> I'm with Grant on this one, the red curtain comes down and some
> people wake up later thinking "What the hell happened?" I've read
> many reports of people getting off. The "he had it coming" defense is
> just stupid.

If you watch the movie "Armadillo" (on Netflix, at least it was a couple
of months ago) you can see this happen.

Allan
--
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

Curt,

I think you're right, I'm probably going to end up taking this to a local
shop.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Curt Raymond
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 3:15 PM
To: Diesel List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

Max, I don't have anything in the way of real knowledge to add here but I'd
get the valve job priced out and if it wasn't huge I'd probably go ahead and
do it. I wouldn't want to get the head installed and find out I should have
done it...


-Curt

Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 13:46:25 -0500
From: "Max Dillon" 
To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga
Message-ID: <002a01ccc97e$d5456960$7fd03c20$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii"

Dieselhead, was it you that recommended using the "evil fluid" aka gasoline
to check the valve seat seals?  Someone recommended testing the seal of the
valve against the seat with gasoline; if the seal can hold the gasoline then
no need to grind.  This a.m. I did that test, and three out of six will
allow the gasoline to leak by, but rather slowly.  It takes about 30 seconds
for the small amount of gasoline held by the area around the valves to leak
out.  Looks like the intake valves are the culprits.  Considering the
fraction of a second for a combustion event, I think that a slow leak is
probably OK, but I'm far from an expert.  Is this test a "pass" or a "fail"

The other three seem to hold the gasoline nicely.

There is very little play in the valve guides; all of the exhaust valves
seem to be about the same, and the intake valves are all a little tighter.

So, do I install this head as is, or take it to a shop for a valve job?

-Max

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[MBZ] Chrysler 200

I'm in Greenville, SC this week, drove out from Charlotte this morning in a 
Chrysler 200 and I'll be dammed but I actually kinda like that little car.

Its ugly but its reasonably comfortable. I think its got a 4cyl but I haven't 
popped the hood yet. It kicks out of OD on the highway a lot, clearly not a big 
block, but its reasonably peppy.

Satellite radio which is even enabled (a crap shoot on a rental), unfortunately 
the screen on the radio is small so its a bit hard to get the station 
description. Of course its got lousy rear sight lines because the rear window 
is small and the trunk lid is high but it makes up for it with decent side 
mirrors. Not bad rear seat space for a small car and (this is big for me) the 
front seats push way back so I don't feel real cramped though it is a small 
car. Of course the upholstery is cheap but its a low end car.

All in all I wouldn't rush out and buy one but its not bad, Chrysler hasn't 
made a good small car since the Neon and they weren't exactly anything to crow 
about.

The bigger question is how Avis chooses what car to give me. 3 weeks ago in San 
Francisco they gave me a Mustang...

-Curt

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Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

Rick Knoble  wrote:

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhXsH12Rg6s&feature=youtube_gdata_player
>
>You need the tool (basically a wooden dowel with rubber suction cups)
>and valve lapping compound. 
Thanks Rick.  Looks like I'll probably be taking this head to a shop, perhaps 
I'll lap the valves after they've replaced the guides.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD
___

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Re: [MBZ] Need code for Becker model 780 AM/FM cassette

2012-01-02 Thread buymbparts

Call Tom tomorrow and he can get it for you. I'll be back Wednesday.


Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-Original Message-
From: andrew strasfogel 
Sender: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 15:07:04 
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: [MBZ] Need code for Becker model 780 AM/FM cassette

Other than taking it to the dealer, is there a way to obtain a code for my
Becker radio?  The serial no. is V 9015286.  TIA,

Andrew
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Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

Max, I don't have anything in the way of real knowledge to add here but I'd get 
the valve job priced out and if it wasn't huge I'd probably go ahead and do it. 
I wouldn't want to get the head installed and find out I should have done it...

-Curt

Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 13:46:25 -0500
From: "Max Dillon" 
To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga
Message-ID: <002a01ccc97e$d5456960$7fd03c20$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii"

Dieselhead, was it you that recommended using the "evil fluid" aka gasoline
to check the valve seat seals?  Someone recommended testing the seal of the
valve against the seat with gasoline; if the seal can hold the gasoline then
no need to grind.  This a.m. I did that test, and three out of six will
allow the gasoline to leak by, but rather slowly.  It takes about 30 seconds
for the small amount of gasoline held by the area around the valves to leak
out.  Looks like the intake valves are the culprits.  Considering the
fraction of a second for a combustion event, I think that a slow leak is
probably OK, but I'm far from an expert.  Is this test a "pass" or a "fail"

The other three seem to hold the gasoline nicely.

There is very little play in the valve guides; all of the exhaust valves
seem to be about the same, and the intake valves are all a little tighter.

So, do I install this head as is, or take it to a shop for a valve job?

-Max

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Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

Peter Frederick  wrote:

>If you can feel movement of the valves in the guides AT ALL they are  
>way oversize.
>
>Spec is 0.02 to 0.05mm new, you cannot feel that at all.  In fact, if  
>the valves won't stay up in the guide against the seat with the  
>spring out the guides are shot and need to be replaced.

Peter, .05 mm is less than .002 inches; that is really tight!
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD
___

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Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender

I'm with Grant on this one, the red curtain comes down and some people wake up 
later thinking "What the hell happened?" I've read many reports of people 
getting off. The "he had it coming" defense is just stupid.

Its the second magazine that did it. I can vaugely remember a similar case 
(might even be this case) where getting the second magazine to keep shooting 
got somebody in trouble.

I totally get what happened, the guy defends himself, the intruder is dead, 
adrenaline is PUMPING and the defender is now jacked with nothing to do but 
stand around. Anybody who's been in a fight where the police scared everybody 
off knows what I'm talking about.

-Curt

Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 12:23:51 -0600
From: Randy Bennell 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender
Message-ID: <4f01f637.4040...@bennell.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

You can "not agree" all you want but the bottom line is that you are
entitled to defend yourself in a reasonable manner with a reasonable
amount of force. If you go beyond what is considered to be reasonable,
then you may end up paying the price for your actions.
Shoot the bad guy once and no one is likely to blame you if he is
pointing a gun at you at the time. Shoot him a dozen times after he is
flat out on the floor, and you look about as bad as he did.
I watched the video and thought, if it was me, I might have been more
concerned that the other guy might come back for his buddy. Had he shot
him too, it might have been acceptable but to shoot the guy who was
already down a number of times is just not acceptable in the eyes of
most reasonable people.
The same thing goes with beating someone up. If you get in a fist fight
and knock the other fellow out, you had best not put the boots to him
and lay a big beating on him. You were entitled to defend yourself but
not entitled to carry on and kill or maim the other person.

Grab a rope or some tape and tie him up or whatever until the police get
there to deal with it.

Randy

On 02/01/2012 12:08 PM, G Mann wrote:
> I do not agree. "obvious anger and intent" comment fails to take into
> effect the trauma of being confronted with imminent death by the now
> deceased assailant. A lawyer who properly represented his wrongfully
> charged client could and should have made a strong and effective case of
> the total fear and trauma induced by the robber and how his client needed
> to make sure the assailant was truly not able to do him harm.
>
> Respectfully,
> Grant...

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Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

2012-01-02 Thread Rick Knoble

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhXsH12Rg6s&feature=youtube_gdata_player

You need the tool (basically a wooden dowel with rubber suction cups) and valve 
lapping compound. Valve lapping compound is made from tungsten carbide or some 
such thing. It is extremely hard and extremely abrasive. Do NOT get any on 
anything you don't want abraded (valve guides, bearings, etc.). Make certain 
you thoroughly clean it off the valve seats and valves when you are done. Valve 
lapping is probably overkill, but for engines where you want maximum sealing 
against compression loss, it is the proper procedure. I doubt if any machine 
shops would do it as a part of a normal valve job, unless it was requested.  
You would pay accordingly. 
Rick
Sent from my AT&T rotary phone

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[MBZ] Need code for Becker model 780 AM/FM cassette

Other than taking it to the dealer, is there a way to obtain a code for my
Becker radio?  The serial no. is V 9015286.  TIA,

Andrew
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Re: [MBZ] OT Magnum

I had to look that up, all I could think of was the station wagon from a few 
years ago.
Turns out a friend had one just after we graduated from High school. His was 
mighty hard on starters. If the engine was hot it wouldn't crank. Replace the 
starter and it'd be good for a few months but pretty soon we'd be planning our 
trips around 2 hour breaks with the hood up.
It was 70's vintage and looked just like the red on in the Wikipedia article. 
I'd thought it had a 6 cyl but wiki says no. It was kinda gutless so I'd guess 
it had a clapped out 318.

-Curt

Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2012 22:50:53 -0500
From: Rich Thomas 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: [MBZ] OT Magnum
Message-ID: <4f01299d.1020...@constructivity.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

No, not the "family planning" product  I went to the store this
evening to drop off some DVDs at the Redbox, and this guy was sitting
there in a Dodge Magnum that was in beautiful condition.  The car itself
is rather disastrous from a styling standpoint, but I had not seen one
of those things in like 30 years.  Not sure what year it was, maybe
early/mid 70s?  I think they had the huge motors in them, the 440?  I
did not talk to the guy, I'll try if I see him again.

--R

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Energy Victory?

I would counter, does a debt approaching 20 TRILLION dollars makes sense for 
the items you've listed?

Yes, people who use air travel (passengers and freight shippers) should pay the 
cost.  We will as a population pick up some of that naturally in the increased 
cost of shipped goods.  No taxation is necessary.

Ditto roads, fuel taxes sounds like a great way, siphoning these into the 
general fund should be prohibited, with privately operated toll roads where 
feasible.

Museums, aquariums ... how often do you visit these?  A few times a year?  You 
still pay for admission in most places, why not make these places pay their own 
way.  Are you happy borrowing from China and making your great grandchildren 
pay for your museum experience today?

WE HAVE NO MONEY.  We need to STOP SPENDING money on non-essentials.  Sadly I 
don't hold out a lot of hope for this happening.



On Mon, Jan 2, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:
> I get what you're saying but would counter that we should end all subsidies 
> for air travel. We spend more on airports per annum than we've spent on 
> Amtrak total, without even beginning to talk about security. Air travel 
> should pay for itself, otherwise its not viable. Airline tickets are 
> artificially low because the ticket price doesn't account for the cost to run 
> the airport, the air traffic control or security, including TSA and the State 
> Police presence.
> 
> But where does it end? Should we end any subsidy for roads? Should roads be 
> forced to be paid for only by fuel taxes? Actually I'd like to know if thats 
> possible, do our legislators siphon that money off to pay for other stuff 
> while letting our roads and bridges crumble?
> 
> Does "Social Engineering" include museums, aquariums and the like? I'm fairly 
> libertarian but I do see where much of that contributes to the common good, 
> in the same way public schools do, or should anyway.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 18:30:41 -0700
> From: G Mann 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Energy Victory?
> Message-ID:
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Regardless of what justification you make, I object to taxation for social
> engineering.
> 
> For example, Government mandated, corn based ethanol, has destroyed the
> food chain of farmer to food market. That program supports the huge
> commercial farming operations of such companies as ADM, Cargyl, and others.
> It kills the family farmer. Your desire to "live small" is your individual
> choice and mandating it on everyone else through enforced "carbon taxation"
> or some other social engineering scheme simply insults me.
> 
> In case you have not noticed.. America is a huge county with distance
> measured in hours from point to point, not miles.  The highway system
> supports that. Public transport does not. America has cities the size of
> entire countries in Europe. Those cities are not built around a "central
> hub" where the citizens all go for goods and services.
> 
> Example: Local city just put in a "light rail" system, about 40 miles,
> which cost the taxpayers 80 BILLION dollars. Every street that has "light
> rail" closed businesses since they could not exist for 2 yrs while it was
> being built and traffic was closed. Now the "light rail" is failing to
> support it's self cause there are no businesses to travel to along the
> route, and no one riding it.  BUT, we spent 80 BILLION dollars to have it.
> In practical fact, we could send a limo and driver to every rider for next
> 40 years and still not spend 80 BILLION dollars. But government heads don't
> think in practical fact, do they.
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] W123 300TD - starts and dies - SOLVED!!

There are no leaks that I can see but I will do so any way

On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 9:12 PM, Fmiser  wrote:

> > > andrew strasfogel  writes:
> > >
> > > Yep.  When I unscrewed fully and started pumping, fuel
> > > overflowed immediately, around the hand pump.  Doesn't that
> > > mean that the fuel delivery system is properly functioning?
>
> > Curt Raymond wrote:
> >
> > No, it means your hand pump leaks.
> >
> > The fuel system on your car is a closed loop. Any fuel that
> > isn't used gets returned to the tank, it NEVER leaks out.
>
> More significant that fuel leaking OUT is that it is highly
> likely that if the fuel can get out then air can leak IN.
> This is not good.
>
> I advise replacing the primer pump right away.
>
> Mercedes part number 000-090-88-50, my notes say the price is
> about $20.00
>
> --   Philip
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Energy Victory?

If we're talking about Phoenix then all the numbers seem to be doubled.

According to Wikipedia as of 2011 there are 20 miles of light rail that 
originally cost around $1.4 billion. Apparently theres some "State Transit 
Plan" in the works which would include some commuter rail.

Anyway I'd want more specifics on the $80 billion, I'm not gonna take that on 
face.

-Curt

Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2012 21:04:02 -0500
From: Allan Streib 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Energy Victory?
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

G Mann  writes:

> Example: Local city just put in a "light rail" system, about 40 miles,
> which cost the taxpayers 80 BILLION dollars. Every street that has "light
> rail" closed businesses since they could not exist for 2 yrs while it was
> being built and traffic was closed. Now the "light rail" is failing to
> support it's self cause there are no businesses to travel to along the
> route, and no one riding it.  BUT, we spent 80 BILLION dollars to have it.
> In practical fact, we could send a limo and driver to every rider for next
> 40 years and still not spend 80 BILLION dollars. But government heads don't
> think in practical fact, do they.

Rail is extremely expensive, when you include all the supporting
infrastructure (buildings, stations, parking, signaling, etc).  However
a cost of $2 billion/mile is way out of line.  Are you sure about that
$80 billon?  That's a federal-budget sized number.  What city are you
talking about?  Typical light rail costs according to Wikipeda can range
from $15 - $100 million per mile.

-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Energy Victory?

I get what you're saying but would counter that we should end all subsidies for 
air travel. We spend more on airports per annum than we've spent on Amtrak 
total, without even beginning to talk about security. Air travel should pay for 
itself, otherwise its not viable. Airline tickets are artificially low because 
the ticket price doesn't account for the cost to run the airport, the air 
traffic control or security, including TSA and the State Police presence.

But where does it end? Should we end any subsidy for roads? Should roads be 
forced to be paid for only by fuel taxes? Actually I'd like to know if thats 
possible, do our legislators siphon that money off to pay for other stuff while 
letting our roads and bridges crumble?

Does "Social Engineering" include museums, aquariums and the like? I'm fairly 
libertarian but I do see where much of that contributes to the common good, in 
the same way public schools do, or should anyway.

-Curt

Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 18:30:41 -0700
From: G Mann 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Energy Victory?
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Regardless of what justification you make, I object to taxation for social
engineering.

For example, Government mandated, corn based ethanol, has destroyed the
food chain of farmer to food market. That program supports the huge
commercial farming operations of such companies as ADM, Cargyl, and others.
It kills the family farmer. Your desire to "live small" is your individual
choice and mandating it on everyone else through enforced "carbon taxation"
or some other social engineering scheme simply insults me.

In case you have not noticed.. America is a huge county with distance
measured in hours from point to point, not miles.  The highway system
supports that. Public transport does not. America has cities the size of
entire countries in Europe. Those cities are not built around a "central
hub" where the citizens all go for goods and services.

Example: Local city just put in a "light rail" system, about 40 miles,
which cost the taxpayers 80 BILLION dollars. Every street that has "light
rail" closed businesses since they could not exist for 2 yrs while it was
being built and traffic was closed. Now the "light rail" is failing to
support it's self cause there are no businesses to travel to along the
route, and no one riding it.  BUT, we spent 80 BILLION dollars to have it.
In practical fact, we could send a limo and driver to every rider for next
40 years and still not spend 80 BILLION dollars. But government heads don't
think in practical fact, do they.


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[MBZ] Working on the '95 E320

I went to change the thermostat and oil and filter this past weekend and
made three discoveries:

1. The car still has its belly pan!

2. The thermostat is MUCH easier to change than that on the E420; easier,
   even, than our 240D/3.0. It's on top at the front of the engine.

3. The oil filter housing is at the back of the engine next to the
   firewall and requires a special tool to loosen it, not a socket and
   rachet like OM61x and M119. The filter is a cannister like the other
   engines, but the cover is shaped like a small spin-on oil filter and
   needs that type of tool to remove it, particularly when it's hot.
   According to page 5 of 0101.pdf, the tool is 103 589 02 09 00.

So now I need to get one of those from Rusty.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT Guns and idiots don't mix

Sheesh,
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/20220102kin_want_probe_in_moms_shooting_staties_off-duty_trooper_accidentally_wounded_norton_woman_while_hunting/srvc=home&position=4

More proof of my contention that many of "our finest" are absolute morons.

-Curt

--- On Sun, 1/1/12, Curt Raymond  wrote:

> From: Curt Raymond 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Guns and idiots don't mix
> To: "Diesel List" 
> Date: Sunday, January 1, 2012, 6:22 PM
> He should be prosecuted. "Shooting at
> a noise" is one of the stupidest things you can do.
> 
> Rule #1 Treat every gun as if its loaded
> Rule #2 Know your target and what is behind it
> 
> He clearly didn't know his target.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 22:00:21 -0500
> From: Allan Streib 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Guns and idiots don't mix
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Just read a story in the paper today, a 17 year old was
> shot and killed
> by a man who thought he was a coyote.  The guy shot at
> a noise, couldn't
> see what he was shooting at.
> 
> Not yet determined if any criminal charges will be filed.
> 
> Allan
> 
> Curt Raymond 
> writes:
> 
> > This amazes me...
> >
> > For the 4 years I was in high school I shot on average
> 100 rounds a week. Some weeks would be as high as 400.
> > I shot trap, smallbore 25m rifle, and hunters pistol
> metallic silhouette. I shot .22 rifles and pistols, .357
> rifle and pistol and all gauges of shotgun (well, I've never
> shot a 10ga, but I shot a 16ga a lot and not everybody has
> done that) and thats just the stuff I did for competition.
> >
> > Strangely I've never shot myself or any of my friends.
> I've never accidentally killed anything or destroyed
> something I didn't mean to.
> >
> > This is another case where I think gun safety should
> be taught in school. Although theres that one idiot in the
> video that IS teaching gun safety, or rather he's supposed
> to be.
> >
> > -Curt
> 

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Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

Peter,

Thanks, I'll see if I can check that with my dial indicator.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Peter Frederick
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 2:28 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

If you can feel movement of the valves in the guides AT ALL they are way
oversize.

Spec is 0.02 to 0.05mm new, you cannot feel that at all.  In fact, if the
valves won't stay up in the guide against the seat with the spring out the
guides are shot and need to be replaced.

You will have to use a good dial indicator to check, and it will be
difficult in that head -- lower the valve off the seat a very small amount
and push the valve sideways in the guide with the indicator finger on it,
then divide by two or so (to account for the distance from guide to where
the dial indicator is).

Best method is a go/no go tool with one end the maximum size and the other a
very small amount larger.  If the "worn out" end fits into the guide, it's
shot.

When I got my "rebuilt" head (now installed on my brother's SDL), the valves
were taped in place (no springs) and fell out when I pulled the tape loose.
They rattled in the guides with the valve off the seat, had to have been at
least 0.005", probably 0.010" clearance in there, and that engine will have
excessive blowby and burn huge amounts of oil with that much space in the
guides.

Peter
On Jan 2, 2012, at 1:13 PM, Max Dillon wrote:

> Rick, thanks.  Where can I learn how to lap valves?
>
> -Max
>
> -Original Message-
> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes- 
> boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rick Knoble
> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 2:06 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga
>
> On Jan 2, 2012, at 12:46 PM, "Max Dillon"  
>  wrote:
>
>> So, do I install this head as is, or take it to a shop for a valve 
>> job?
>
>
> If the guides are within spec (using a dial indicator or other correct
> method) I would lap the valves and call it good.
>
> Rick
> Sent from my AT&T rotary phone
>
>
>
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>
>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] too bad Dan lives in Florida now...

My '81 300TD didn't have one. The owner before me (a good friend) got one put 
in during a particularly cold winter.

My '78 240D didn't have one either. I had one put in fall 2010.

-Curt

Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 07:24:38 -0500
From: Dan Penoff 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] too bad Dan lives in Florida now...
Message-ID: <66acd8b3-379d-457c-a801-2a15675d1...@yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii

That same cold front is going to push almost all the way down here, giving us 
low temps on Tuesday night in the 30s, which is really cold for this area.

This means the locals will be out in parkas and extreme cold weather gear.

A light jacket for me, thank you.

As someone mentioned, look forward and above the starter on your 300SD. You may 
not have the cable, but I bet the heater is there.

Never seen a 617 without one, although I am sure they exist.

Dan

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Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

If you can feel movement of the valves in the guides AT ALL they are  
way oversize.


Spec is 0.02 to 0.05mm new, you cannot feel that at all.  In fact, if  
the valves won't stay up in the guide against the seat with the  
spring out the guides are shot and need to be replaced.


You will have to use a good dial indicator to check, and it will be  
difficult in that head -- lower the valve off the seat a very small  
amount and push the valve sideways in the guide with the indicator  
finger on it, then divide by two or so (to account for the distance  
from guide to where the dial indicator is).


Best method is a go/no go tool with one end the maximum size and the  
other a very small amount larger.  If the "worn out" end fits into  
the guide, it's shot.


When I got my "rebuilt" head (now installed on my brother's SDL), the  
valves were taped in place (no springs) and fell out when I pulled  
the tape loose.  They rattled in the guides with the valve off the  
seat, had to have been at least 0.005", probably 0.010" clearance in  
there, and that engine will have excessive blowby and burn huge  
amounts of oil with that much space in the guides.


Peter
On Jan 2, 2012, at 1:13 PM, Max Dillon wrote:


Rick, thanks.  Where can I learn how to lap valves?

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes- 
boun...@okiebenz.com]

On Behalf Of Rick Knoble
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 2:06 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

On Jan 2, 2012, at 12:46 PM, "Max Dillon"  
 wrote:


So, do I install this head as is, or take it to a shop for a valve  
job?



If the guides are within spec (using a dial indicator or other correct
method) I would lap the valves and call it good.

Rick
Sent from my AT&T rotary phone



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Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender

It's easy to Monday morning quarterback the incident on tape. What is not
easy is to put yourself in the mans shoes.  Have you ever been shot at from
close range?  Just how threatened would you be if two armed guys, intent on
shooting you, simply started shooting directly at you?

Would you, at that time, be cold enough to simply restrain the armed
assailants?  Only you can answer that, and only while under those
stresses.  Not after the fact.

What the video does NOT show is exactly what the perp was doing. Was he
continuing to try to shoot the store owner?  Perhaps he was. If you were
there, at that exact moment, what would you have done presuming the perp
still held his gun on you?

The duty to protect yourself exceeds any duty you may feel to protect the
person who is trying to murder you and has clearly displayed his "anger and
intent" by shooting at you at close range.

I rest my case

On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Randy Bennell  wrote:

> You can "not agree" all you want but the bottom line is that you are
> entitled to defend yourself in a reasonable manner with a reasonable amount
> of force. If you go beyond what is considered to be reasonable, then you
> may end up paying the price for your actions.
> Shoot the bad guy once and no one is likely to blame you if he is pointing
> a gun at you at the time. Shoot him a dozen times after he is flat out on
> the floor, and you look about as bad as he did.
> I watched the video and thought, if it was me, I might have been more
> concerned that the other guy might come back for his buddy. Had he shot him
> too, it might have been acceptable but to shoot the guy who was already
> down a number of times is just not acceptable in the eyes of most
> reasonable people.
> The same thing goes with beating someone up. If you get in a fist fight
> and knock the other fellow out, you had best not put the boots to him and
> lay a big beating on him. You were entitled to defend yourself but not
> entitled to carry on and kill or maim the other person.
>
> Grab a rope or some tape and tie him up or whatever until the police get
> there to deal with it.
>
> Randy
>
> On 02/01/2012 12:08 PM, G Mann wrote:
>
>> I do not agree. "obvious anger and intent" comment fails to take into
>> effect the trauma of being confronted with imminent death by the now
>> deceased assailant. A lawyer who properly represented his wrongfully
>> charged client could and should have made a strong and effective case of
>> the total fear and trauma induced by the robber and how his client needed
>> to make sure the assailant was truly not able to do him harm.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> Grant...
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Randy Bennell
>>  wrote:
>>
>>  The usual legal argument is that you have the right to use reasonable
>>> force to defend yourself. His error was shooting the bad guy another 5
>>> times. That showed obvious anger and intent to harm the bad guy. If he
>>> had
>>> left well enough alone, he likely would not have been charged for
>>> shooting
>>> the robber the first time.
>>>
>>> Randy
>>>
>>>
>>> On 30/12/2011 7:21 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
>>>
>>>  Well it was actually a pretty big surprise the guy even got thrown in
 jail here at all.  Usually people can go ahead and shoot other people
 around here who are in the middle of robbing them no problem.  For some
 reason they decided to make an example out of this guy.  People are
 really
 pissed about it around here for sure.

 Here is the story

 http://abcnews.go.com/US/oklahoma-pharmacist-dead-**
 robbers-accomplices-life-prison/story?id=14053802>>> //abcnews.go.com/US/oklahoma-**pharmacist-dead-robbers-**
 accomplices-life-prison/story?**id=14053802
 >

 And video of the crime.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHshsgpsxFg
 
 >

 On 12/30/2011 6:41 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:

  If he was in Florida, he would probably have walked.  The "right to
> defend" laws here are pretty clear about one's ability to defend
> themselves
> against harm.
>
> Sadly, there was a situation a year or two ago where an angry old man
> got pissed about some kids skateboarding in a public area in his
> neighborhood.  He went out, waving a gun to threaten them.  Another
> neighborhood resident, who was in the same area with his young
> daughter,
> confronted him about hassling the kids and the old guy shot and killed
> the
> man right in front of his daughter.
>
> This is probably one of the times the right to defend law got
> stretched,
> as the judge just threw the case out on those groun

Re: [MBZ] too bad Dan lives in Florida now...

2012-01-02 Thread Fmiser

> Dan Penoff wrote:

> As someone mentioned, look forward and above the starter on
> your 300SD. You may not have the cable, but I bet the heater
> is there.

> Never seen a 617 without one, although I am sure they exist.

They do.

I have installed block heaters on two cars.  Both OM617.

--  Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

Rick, thanks.  Where can I learn how to lap valves?

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Rick Knoble
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 2:06 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

On Jan 2, 2012, at 12:46 PM, "Max Dillon"  wrote:

> So, do I install this head as is, or take it to a shop for a valve job?


If the guides are within spec (using a dial indicator or other correct
method) I would lap the valves and call it good. 

Rick
Sent from my AT&T rotary phone 



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Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

2012-01-02 Thread Rick Knoble

On Jan 2, 2012, at 12:46 PM, "Max Dillon"  wrote:

> So, do I install this head as is, or take it to a shop for a valve job?


If the guides are within spec (using a dial indicator or other correct method) 
I would lap the valves and call it good. 

Rick
Sent from my AT&T rotary phone 



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Re: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

Dieselhead, was it you that recommended using the "evil fluid" aka gasoline
to check the valve seat seals?  Someone recommended testing the seal of the
valve against the seat with gasoline; if the seal can hold the gasoline then
no need to grind.  This a.m. I did that test, and three out of six will
allow the gasoline to leak by, but rather slowly.  It takes about 30 seconds
for the small amount of gasoline held by the area around the valves to leak
out.  Looks like the intake valves are the culprits.  Considering the
fraction of a second for a combustion event, I think that a slow leak is
probably OK, but I'm far from an expert.  Is this test a "pass" or a "fail"

The other three seem to hold the gasoline nicely.

There is very little play in the valve guides; all of the exhaust valves
seem to be about the same, and the intake valves are all a little tighter.

So, do I install this head as is, or take it to a shop for a valve job?

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Max Dillon
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 12:31 PM
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List'
Subject: [MBZ] Continuing the OM603 head replacment saga

Dieselvolk,

 

Finally spent some more time yesterday and today working on this project.  I
think Rich may finish building his new addition before I get this car back
on the road!

 

Recap: 1987 300TD, 337k miles, the original #14 head cracked and started
mixing coolant into the oil.  I bought a #17 used head, had local machine
shop rebuild it (pressure test, check for flat, check the valves/guides and
install new valve guide seals), and then realized I needed new inclined
injectors to go with the pre-chambers installed in the head.  While checking
with a local independent garage that I like, I found and purchased a #20
head which supposedly was freshly rebuilt but the block it was installed on
had bent rods.  It has the older pre-chambers installed, so my original
injectors will work, plus this head came with injectors so now I have a
spare set.

 

I was suspicious of the "fresh rebuild", so I decided to pull the valves to
inspect the valve guide seals.  Sure enough, four of the exhaust seals look
terrible.  I also found that the number 7 camshaft bearing looked rather
poorly compared to the rest.  

 

Yesterday I compared the deck height of the #20 head to my original head to
determine if it had been machined flat at some point.  The two heads are
within a couple thousands of an inch of each other, so I'm pretty sure I
won't need a different head gasket (thicker) for the new head.

 

Today I used plasti-gauge to measure the bearing clearance at the #7 cam
journal, and found it to be 0.051 mm or less.  Wear limit is 0.15mm, so I'm
good there.  

 

Later today, if I have time, I'll start checking the valves and guides for
play.  Also I'm planning to check the seal of the valve vs. the seat in the
head.  If all those check out, then I'll install the new valve guide seals
and begin the final assembly process.

 

Very respectfully,
/s/
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD 337k miles (Headless Garage Queen)

'95 E300 299k miles

'73 Balboa 20

 

 

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Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender

2012-01-02 Thread Randy Bennell

You can "not agree" all you want but the bottom line is that you are 
entitled to defend yourself in a reasonable manner with a reasonable 
amount of force. If you go beyond what is considered to be reasonable, 
then you may end up paying the price for your actions.
Shoot the bad guy once and no one is likely to blame you if he is 
pointing a gun at you at the time. Shoot him a dozen times after he is 
flat out on the floor, and you look about as bad as he did.
I watched the video and thought, if it was me, I might have been more 
concerned that the other guy might come back for his buddy. Had he shot 
him too, it might have been acceptable but to shoot the guy who was 
already down a number of times is just not acceptable in the eyes of 
most reasonable people.
The same thing goes with beating someone up. If you get in a fist fight 
and knock the other fellow out, you had best not put the boots to him 
and lay a big beating on him. You were entitled to defend yourself but 
not entitled to carry on and kill or maim the other person.


Grab a rope or some tape and tie him up or whatever until the police get 
there to deal with it.


Randy

On 02/01/2012 12:08 PM, G Mann wrote:

I do not agree. "obvious anger and intent" comment fails to take into
effect the trauma of being confronted with imminent death by the now
deceased assailant. A lawyer who properly represented his wrongfully
charged client could and should have made a strong and effective case of
the total fear and trauma induced by the robber and how his client needed
to make sure the assailant was truly not able to do him harm.

Respectfully,
Grant...

On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Randy Bennell  wrote:


The usual legal argument is that you have the right to use reasonable
force to defend yourself. His error was shooting the bad guy another 5
times. That showed obvious anger and intent to harm the bad guy. If he had
left well enough alone, he likely would not have been charged for shooting
the robber the first time.

Randy


On 30/12/2011 7:21 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:


Well it was actually a pretty big surprise the guy even got thrown in
jail here at all.  Usually people can go ahead and shoot other people
around here who are in the middle of robbing them no problem.  For some
reason they decided to make an example out of this guy.  People are really
pissed about it around here for sure.

Here is the story

http://abcnews.go.com/US/**oklahoma-pharmacist-dead-**
robbers-accomplices-life-**prison/story?id=14053802

And video of the crime.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=YHshsgpsxFg

On 12/30/2011 6:41 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:


If he was in Florida, he would probably have walked.  The "right to
defend" laws here are pretty clear about one's ability to defend themselves
against harm.

Sadly, there was a situation a year or two ago where an angry old man
got pissed about some kids skateboarding in a public area in his
neighborhood.  He went out, waving a gun to threaten them.  Another
neighborhood resident, who was in the same area with his young daughter,
confronted him about hassling the kids and the old guy shot and killed the
man right in front of his daughter.

This is probably one of the times the right to defend law got stretched,
as the judge just threw the case out on those grounds, as the old dude
claimed he felt threatened by the guy.  I don't think the judge was happy
about it, but the case law was pretty clear, so I don't think he had a
choice.

Nothing is perfect, folks...

Dan

On Dec 30, 2011, at 7:30 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

  We had a pharmacist here who got prison time, some punks came in to rob

his store, he emptied his clip into one of them, the others ran away.  He
then was so freaked out he went behind the counter, got another gun and
emptied that one into the guy as well.  I think the guy should have got a
medal.

On 12/30/2011 12:08 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:


Thankfully, this is now legal in Florida.

I'm not a pro-gun or no-gun advocate, but I have often had an issue
with one's ability to defend one's home and personal space.

After reading the article, it's clear the perps were career scumbags
and deserved what they got.  At least the one they targeted.  The one that
got away will probably be on the street shortly (after they catch him.)

Dan


On Dec 30, 2011, at 11:54 AM, Scott and Gwen Ritchey wrote:

  Got a haircut today and my barber seemed somewhat preoccupied.  Turns

out
that an hour earlier, his grand nephew shot and killed one of several
intruders.  The grand nephew (age 14) and his sister (who was taking a
shower at the time) were home alone when they were startled by
several armed
intruders who burst into the house.  The kid shot the one but the
others
ran; the sheriff was searching for them last I heard.  I hope the kid
doesn't have any long-term psychologica

Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender

I do not agree. "obvious anger and intent" comment fails to take into
effect the trauma of being confronted with imminent death by the now
deceased assailant. A lawyer who properly represented his wrongfully
charged client could and should have made a strong and effective case of
the total fear and trauma induced by the robber and how his client needed
to make sure the assailant was truly not able to do him harm.

Respectfully,
Grant...

On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Randy Bennell  wrote:

> The usual legal argument is that you have the right to use reasonable
> force to defend yourself. His error was shooting the bad guy another 5
> times. That showed obvious anger and intent to harm the bad guy. If he had
> left well enough alone, he likely would not have been charged for shooting
> the robber the first time.
>
> Randy
>
>
> On 30/12/2011 7:21 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
>
>> Well it was actually a pretty big surprise the guy even got thrown in
>> jail here at all.  Usually people can go ahead and shoot other people
>> around here who are in the middle of robbing them no problem.  For some
>> reason they decided to make an example out of this guy.  People are really
>> pissed about it around here for sure.
>>
>> Here is the story
>>
>> http://abcnews.go.com/US/**oklahoma-pharmacist-dead-**
>> robbers-accomplices-life-**prison/story?id=14053802
>>
>> And video of the crime.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=YHshsgpsxFg
>>
>> On 12/30/2011 6:41 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>>
>>> If he was in Florida, he would probably have walked.  The "right to
>>> defend" laws here are pretty clear about one's ability to defend themselves
>>> against harm.
>>>
>>> Sadly, there was a situation a year or two ago where an angry old man
>>> got pissed about some kids skateboarding in a public area in his
>>> neighborhood.  He went out, waving a gun to threaten them.  Another
>>> neighborhood resident, who was in the same area with his young daughter,
>>> confronted him about hassling the kids and the old guy shot and killed the
>>> man right in front of his daughter.
>>>
>>> This is probably one of the times the right to defend law got stretched,
>>> as the judge just threw the case out on those grounds, as the old dude
>>> claimed he felt threatened by the guy.  I don't think the judge was happy
>>> about it, but the case law was pretty clear, so I don't think he had a
>>> choice.
>>>
>>> Nothing is perfect, folks...
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>> On Dec 30, 2011, at 7:30 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
>>>
>>>  We had a pharmacist here who got prison time, some punks came in to rob
 his store, he emptied his clip into one of them, the others ran away.  He
 then was so freaked out he went behind the counter, got another gun and
 emptied that one into the guy as well.  I think the guy should have got a
 medal.

 On 12/30/2011 12:08 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:

> Thankfully, this is now legal in Florida.
>
> I'm not a pro-gun or no-gun advocate, but I have often had an issue
> with one's ability to defend one's home and personal space.
>
> After reading the article, it's clear the perps were career scumbags
> and deserved what they got.  At least the one they targeted.  The one that
> got away will probably be on the street shortly (after they catch him.)
>
> Dan
>
>
> On Dec 30, 2011, at 11:54 AM, Scott and Gwen Ritchey wrote:
>
>  Got a haircut today and my barber seemed somewhat preoccupied.  Turns
>> out
>> that an hour earlier, his grand nephew shot and killed one of several
>> intruders.  The grand nephew (age 14) and his sister (who was taking a
>> shower at the time) were home alone when they were startled by
>> several armed
>> intruders who burst into the house.  The kid shot the one but the
>> others
>> ran; the sheriff was searching for them last I heard.  I hope the kid
>> doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this but
>> otherwise I
>> consider it a very satisfactory solution to a bad situation.
>>
>>
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/ck2rx5m
>>
>> __**_
>>
>
>
> __**_
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> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender

Meanwhile, in Oklahoma, another upstanding citizen reaps the wages of 
his pursuits:  http://www.koco.com/news/30114963/detail.html


And his friend looks quite a real prize too.

--R

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Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender

2012-01-02 Thread Peter Hertzing

I'm no lawyer but the video sure shows excessive force.  Not sure what angle 
the defense uses but temporary insanity would sure have worked better around 
here then the he had it coming defense.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 2, 2012, at 11:26 AM, Randy Bennell  wrote:

> The usual legal argument is that you have the right to use reasonable force 
> to defend yourself. His error was shooting the bad guy another 5 times. That 
> showed obvious anger and intent to harm the bad guy. If he had left well 
> enough alone, he likely would not have been charged for shooting the robber 
> the first time.
> 
> Randy
> 
> 
> On 30/12/2011 7:21 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
>> Well it was actually a pretty big surprise the guy even got thrown in jail 
>> here at all.  Usually people can go ahead and shoot other people around here 
>> who are in the middle of robbing them no problem.  For some reason they 
>> decided to make an example out of this guy.  People are really pissed about 
>> it around here for sure.
>> 
>> Here is the story
>> 
>> http://abcnews.go.com/US/oklahoma-pharmacist-dead-robbers-accomplices-life-prison/story?id=14053802
>>  
>> 
>> And video of the crime.
>> 
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHshsgpsxFg
>> 
>> On 12/30/2011 6:41 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>>> If he was in Florida, he would probably have walked.  The "right to defend" 
>>> laws here are pretty clear about one's ability to defend themselves against 
>>> harm.
>>> 
>>> Sadly, there was a situation a year or two ago where an angry old man got 
>>> pissed about some kids skateboarding in a public area in his neighborhood.  
>>> He went out, waving a gun to threaten them.  Another neighborhood resident, 
>>> who was in the same area with his young daughter, confronted him about 
>>> hassling the kids and the old guy shot and killed the man right in front of 
>>> his daughter.
>>> 
>>> This is probably one of the times the right to defend law got stretched, as 
>>> the judge just threw the case out on those grounds, as the old dude claimed 
>>> he felt threatened by the guy.  I don't think the judge was happy about it, 
>>> but the case law was pretty clear, so I don't think he had a choice.
>>> 
>>> Nothing is perfect, folks...
>>> 
>>> Dan
>>> 
>>> On Dec 30, 2011, at 7:30 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
>>> 
 We had a pharmacist here who got prison time, some punks came in to rob 
 his store, he emptied his clip into one of them, the others ran away.  He 
 then was so freaked out he went behind the counter, got another gun and 
 emptied that one into the guy as well.  I think the guy should have got a 
 medal.
 
 On 12/30/2011 12:08 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:
> Thankfully, this is now legal in Florida.
> 
> I'm not a pro-gun or no-gun advocate, but I have often had an issue with 
> one's ability to defend one's home and personal space.
> 
> After reading the article, it's clear the perps were career scumbags and 
> deserved what they got.  At least the one they targeted.  The one that 
> got away will probably be on the street shortly (after they catch him.)
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> On Dec 30, 2011, at 11:54 AM, Scott and Gwen Ritchey wrote:
> 
>> Got a haircut today and my barber seemed somewhat preoccupied.  Turns out
>> that an hour earlier, his grand nephew shot and killed one of several
>> intruders.  The grand nephew (age 14) and his sister (who was taking a
>> shower at the time) were home alone when they were startled by several 
>> armed
>> intruders who burst into the house.  The kid shot the one but the others
>> ran; the sheriff was searching for them last I heard.  I hope the kid
>> doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this but otherwise I
>> consider it a very satisfactory solution to a bad situation.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> http://tinyurl.com/ck2rx5m
>> 
>> ___
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: One less repeat offender

2012-01-02 Thread Randy Bennell

The usual legal argument is that you have the right to use reasonable
force to defend yourself. His error was shooting the bad guy another 5
times. That showed obvious anger and intent to harm the bad guy. If he
had left well enough alone, he likely would not have been charged for
shooting the robber the first time.

Randy

On 30/12/2011 7:21 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
Well it was actually a pretty big surprise the guy even got thrown in
jail here at all. Usually people can go ahead and shoot other people
around here who are in the middle of robbing them no problem. For
some reason they decided to make an example out of this guy. People
are really pissed about it around here for sure.

Here is the story

http://abcnews.go.com/US/oklahoma-pharmacist-dead-robbers-accomplices-life-prison/story?id=14053802

And video of the crime.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHshsgpsxFg

On 12/30/2011 6:41 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:
If he was in Florida, he would probably have walked. The "right to
defend" laws here are pretty clear about one's ability to defend
themselves against harm.

Sadly, there was a situation a year or two ago where an angry old man
got pissed about some kids skateboarding in a public area in his
neighborhood. He went out, waving a gun to threaten them. Another
neighborhood resident, who was in the same area with his young
daughter, confronted him about hassling the kids and the old guy shot
and killed the man right in front of his daughter.

This is probably one of the times the right to defend law got
stretched, as the judge just threw the case out on those grounds, as
the old dude claimed he felt threatened by the guy. I don't think
the judge was happy about it, but the case law was pretty clear, so I
don't think he had a choice.

Nothing is perfect, folks...

Dan

On Dec 30, 2011, at 7:30 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

We had a pharmacist here who got prison time, some punks came in to
rob his store, he emptied his clip into one of them, the others ran
away. He then was so freaked out he went behind the counter, got
another gun and emptied that one into the guy as well. I think the
guy should have got a medal.

On 12/30/2011 12:08 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:

Thankfully, this is now legal in Florida.

I'm not a pro-gun or no-gun advocate, but I have often had an issue
with one's ability to defend one's home and personal space.

After reading the article, it's clear the perps were career
scumbags and deserved what they got. At least the one they
targeted. The one that got away will probably be on the street
shortly (after they catch him.)

Dan

On Dec 30, 2011, at 11:54 AM, Scott and Gwen Ritchey wrote:

Got a haircut today and my barber seemed somewhat preoccupied.
Turns out

that an hour earlier, his grand nephew shot and killed one of several
intruders. The grand nephew (age 14) and his sister (who was
taking a
shower at the time) were home alone when they were startled by
several armed
intruders who burst into the house. The kid shot the one but the
others

ran; the sheriff was searching for them last I heard. I hope the kid
doesn't have any long-term psychological damage from this but
otherwise I

consider it a very satisfactory solution to a bad situation.

http://tinyurl.com/ck2rx5m

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Re: [MBZ] Bosch cross ref.

2012-01-02 Thread Fred Moir


Rusty.
This is extraordinarily generous of you, thanks.
Bosch #'s are:-
1 305 235 039 L
1 305 235 051 R
My car is a W123.193  1985 300TD.

Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Diesel preferred


On 1/2/2012 9:59 AM, Rusty Cullens wrote:
I have a cross reference, give me the Bosch numbers and I'll let you 
know.



Rusty Cullens
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Dan, et al.
I'm sure that Rusty would know or could find out, but it seems a bit 
cheap to ask him about used parts.

Back to searching.

Fred Moir

Lynn MA
Diesel preferred


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Re: [MBZ] too bad Dan lives in Florida now...

2012-01-02 Thread Dan Penoff

The only PnP I know of has never had much of anything foreign/high line. For 
that matter, they have changed hands and are now part of a national chain, so I 
am clueless about what they might or might not have.

Dan

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 2, 2012, at 7:47 AM, "Gerry Archer"  wrote:

> Thanks for the tip.  I'll be ready for it. Don't usually look at weather 
> reports.
> BTW, do you know of a PnP in the Tampabay area that has 123s?
> Thanks,
> Gerry
> 
> From: "Dan Penoff" 
> 
> 
>> That same cold front is going to push almost all the way down here, giving 
>> us low temps on Tuesday night in the 30s, which is really cold for this area.
>> 
>> This means the locals will be out in parkas and extreme cold weather gear.
>> 
>> A light jacket for me, thank you.
>> 
>> As someone mentioned, look forward and above the starter on your 300SD. You 
>> may not have the cable, but I bet the heater is there.
>> 
>> Never seen a 617 without one, although I am sure they exist.
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 1, 2012, at 7:06 PM, Allan Streib  wrote:
>> 
>>> Supposed to be in the low-to-mid 'teens here tomorrow night.  We've had
>>> it pretty mild so far, all things considered.  But then it usually
>>> doesn't really get to feel like winter here until January.
>>> 
>>> The 300SD doesn't seem to have a block heater.  At least there's no cord
>>> hanging out the front like my 300D has.  But I'm not really driving it
>>> much, and keep it in the garage.
>>> 
>>> Allan
>>> -- 
>>> 1983 300D
>>> 1979 300SD
>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
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>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Bosch cross ref.

2012-01-02 Thread Fred Moir


Craig, et al.
Car is a W123.193,  1985 300TD.

Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Diesel preferred


On 1/1/2012 11:56 PM, Craig wrote:

On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 22:05:52 -0500 Fred Moir
wrote:
   



Dan, et al.
I found a German website that listed my Bosch part #s for a W123 280E
'77-'86.
To "try out" the light assemblies, the car needs to be freed from the
back of the pile. I only want to do this once.
One assembly has vacuum adjust and one does not, presumably one was
replaced.
Bosch numbers 1 305 235 039 L,  1 305 235 051 R
Thanks for the suggestions and info.
   
So what car do you want to fit the lights to?



Craig
   


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Re: [MBZ] too bad Dan lives in Florida now...