Re: [MBZ] Cessna Jet-A engine

2012-10-04 Thread G Mann 
True... but false.

Seems to be a lasting urban myth that the glow plug remains heated after
start cycle and engine warms to operational temp.

Very old diesel engines used a blow torch.. or other means to get preheat
into the cylinder to assist ignition for starting later.. the electric
glow plug does the same thing. Once engine temp at the combustion chamber
has risen to the point that compression combustion can be sustained such
devices are no longer required.

Many things can be used to raise combustion temperatures to start a
diesel... One is to use gasoline.. in early large diesels.. the start cycle
used gasoline on one or two cylinders to start the engine and "crank the
other cylinders" which raised combustion temperatures in successive power
strokes until the cylinders were all hitting... then the "start cylinders"
were switched to diesel... Some used blow torches... or coal fires and the
heat was drawn into the cylinders to "warm them up" from dead cold... but
in all cases.. once the engine ran on it's own... on diesel... the external
heat was removed.

Same for glow plugs...

Mercedes glow plug system works on the same principle... glow to start..
even then the glow plugs cycle on and off to keep from overheating... and
continue for a time until the temp sensor [check your wiring diagram for
what does what] tells the glow circuit the engine has reached a sustainable
operation temperature...

On a really cold morning... with a bad glow system.. a diesel is a B*#&@#ch
to start.. I've used heat guns, hair dryers, and other warm air tricks,
like a rubber hose from the exhaust of a gas engine to pump into the intake
of one to get a start Ether.. the gas of death should only be used by
it's self.. and sparingly.  Its burn point is very low compared to
diesel... and a shot will get a burn started... which then starts the
engine burning diesel

Or in the case of model airplane engine castor oil and alcohol serves
the same purpose.. with a working glow plug... somethings..

FWIW,
Grant...

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Jim Cathey  wrote:

> engines - they rely on the glow plugs staying red hot from the previous
>> combustion cycle for ignition.
>>
>
> I would say no, they are not CI.  Proof?  Try to start one
> without a battery on the GP!  Compression ain't enough.
>
> GP engines are very old.  Many tractor-type engines of
> 100 years ago were that way.  Heated with blowtorch, etc.
>
> -- Jim
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Correct grease for brake caliper pins?

2012-10-04 Thread Rolf 
FWIW I spent $50 or so at the pull a part and got a set of 4pot 
calipers, rotors in pad in nearly new condition. The increase in 
stopping power is noticeable over the single pot floaters.


-Rolf

On 10/3/2012 9:57 PM, Alex Chamberlain wrote:

Listers, what is the right grease to use on the sliding caliper pins when
doing a front brake job on my '87 300D?   Whatever was on there before has
turned into a white crusty gunk that is obviously not providing any
lubrication.

I have a tub of fairly new black moly grease, and I hate to pay the
ridiculous price for the tiny single-use packet labeled " Synthetic Brake
Grease" by the counter at AutoZone if I don't need to.

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] Cessna Jet-A engine

2012-10-04 Thread Jim Cathey 

engines - they rely on the glow plugs staying red hot from the previous
combustion cycle for ignition.


I would say no, they are not CI.  Proof?  Try to start one
without a battery on the GP!  Compression ain't enough.

GP engines are very old.  Many tractor-type engines of
100 years ago were that way.  Heated with blowtorch, etc.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] Cessna Jet-A engine

2012-10-04 Thread G Mann 
The glow plug is a starting assist to raise the combustion temperature
before start. It is not continous heat.. Combustion temperatures after
start are enough to continue the run.

Two stroke diesels ruled the world of diesels until recently [last 20
yrs].. I own 3 Detroit Diesels that are two stroke.. 8V71, and two 6V92
8 = number of cylinders,,, V = configuration,, 71 = cubic inches of
displacement per cylinder... No intake valves.. cylinder liners with ports
and exhaust valves... EPA said.. 2 stroke diesels are bad... they stopped
making them...

The Aviation Diesel is all the newest and latest for fuel delivery,
metering and pressure controls.. latest and greatest... and priced
accordingly adjusted for the cost of FAA certification.. of course..

Grant...

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 11:22 AM, OK Don  wrote:

> There are Diesel model airplane engines (or were) - they did not have a
> glow plug, just a thumb screw to adjust the volume of the combustion
> chamber. They ran on ether and caster oil. My primary memory of them is
> that they were very hard to start!
>
> I'm not sure that the glow plug engines are truely compression ignition
> engines - they rely on the glow plugs staying red hot from the previous
> combustion cycle for ignition.
>
> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 10:36 PM, Peter Frederick  >wrote:
>
> >
> > The two cycle engines used in remote control airplanes are compression
> > ignition two cycles, but no one calls them Diesels!
> >
> > Peter
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> OK Don
> 2001 ML320
> 2012 Passat TDI DSG
> 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
> 1957 C182A
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] All boosted?

2012-10-04 Thread RELNGSON 
> ...I would think nearly all aircraft engines are turbocharged or 
> supercharged
> to help compensate for power loss at altitude.  4% every 1000 feet above
> sea level...
> 
They are not. Turbos are not needed for the lower altitudes and just add 
cost and complexity not to mention greater care in power management.

But, in places like Western Washington, if you want to travel year round 
south or southeast bound, a turbocharged engine makes that possible.

RLE

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Re: [MBZ] Cessna Jet-A engine

2012-10-04 Thread OK Don 
There are Diesel model airplane engines (or were) - they did not have a
glow plug, just a thumb screw to adjust the volume of the combustion
chamber. They ran on ether and caster oil. My primary memory of them is
that they were very hard to start!

I'm not sure that the glow plug engines are truely compression ignition
engines - they rely on the glow plugs staying red hot from the previous
combustion cycle for ignition.

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 10:36 PM, Peter Frederick wrote:

>
> The two cycle engines used in remote control airplanes are compression
> ignition two cycles, but no one calls them Diesels!
>
> Peter
>
>
>


-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
2012 Passat TDI DSG
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
1957 C182A
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Re: [MBZ] Cessna Jet-A engine

2012-10-04 Thread Dieselhead 


Hey!  Good idea about disposal services



Diesel:  A Compression Ignition Engine. Regardless of the fuel used.

Schedule 52 Diesel, which is the Diesel fuel sold at pumps for cars and
trucks, is very nearly the same specification as Schedule 54 Diesel, which
is sold as "Jet A".. the main difference between the two "schedules" is
that Jet A Diesel fuel is adjusted for gel point, cloud point, and
lubrication elements.

Look it up. You can read all the specifications and make your own
conclusions.
I routinely run Schedule 54 "Jet A" fuel in my Diesel vehicles because I
collect the preflight sump samples and clean them of water residue... I add
lubricant to the fuel and run it.. works just fine. [New EPA rules require
preflight sump drain samples to be "disposed of properly, and treated as
HAZMAT"   so I provide "disposal services" for same ]

FWIW,

Grant...


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Re: [MBZ] Cessna Jet-A engine

2012-10-04 Thread G Mann 
Just as soon as they are legally due.  :))

Grant...

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 8:51 AM, Rich Thomas <
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:

> And of course you pay unkie your road taxes...
>
> --R
>
> On 10/4/12 11:12 AM, G Mann wrote:
>
>> Diesel:  A Compression Ignition Engine. Regardless of the fuel used.
>>
>> Schedule 52 Diesel, which is the Diesel fuel sold at pumps for cars and
>> trucks, is very nearly the same specification as Schedule 54 Diesel, which
>> is sold as "Jet A".. the main difference between the two "schedules" is
>> that Jet A Diesel fuel is adjusted for gel point, cloud point, and
>> lubrication elements.
>>
>> Look it up. You can read all the specifications and make your own
>> conclusions.
>> I routinely run Schedule 54 "Jet A" fuel in my Diesel vehicles because I
>> collect the preflight sump samples and clean them of water residue... I
>> add
>> lubricant to the fuel and run it.. works just fine. [New EPA rules require
>> preflight sump drain samples to be "disposed of properly, and treated as
>> HAZMAT"   so I provide "disposal services" for same ]
>>
>> FWIW,
>>
>> Grant...
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 4:03 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>  ...It does cost that much more, but it's a turbo diesel..

  It is not a turbo-diesel and won't run on diesel.
>>>
>>> RLE
>>>
>>> __**_
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>>> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
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>>>
>>>  __**_
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
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>> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
>>
>>
>
> __**_
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Re: [MBZ] Cessna Jet-A engine

2012-10-04 Thread Rich Thomas 

And of course you pay unkie your road taxes...

--R

On 10/4/12 11:12 AM, G Mann wrote:

Diesel:  A Compression Ignition Engine. Regardless of the fuel used.

Schedule 52 Diesel, which is the Diesel fuel sold at pumps for cars and
trucks, is very nearly the same specification as Schedule 54 Diesel, which
is sold as "Jet A".. the main difference between the two "schedules" is
that Jet A Diesel fuel is adjusted for gel point, cloud point, and
lubrication elements.

Look it up. You can read all the specifications and make your own
conclusions.
I routinely run Schedule 54 "Jet A" fuel in my Diesel vehicles because I
collect the preflight sump samples and clean them of water residue... I add
lubricant to the fuel and run it.. works just fine. [New EPA rules require
preflight sump drain samples to be "disposed of properly, and treated as
HAZMAT"   so I provide "disposal services" for same ]

FWIW,

Grant...

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 4:03 PM,  wrote:


...It does cost that much more, but it's a turbo diesel..


It is not a turbo-diesel and won't run on diesel.

RLE

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Re: [MBZ] Cessna Jet-A engine

2012-10-04 Thread G Mann 
Diesel:  A Compression Ignition Engine. Regardless of the fuel used.

Schedule 52 Diesel, which is the Diesel fuel sold at pumps for cars and
trucks, is very nearly the same specification as Schedule 54 Diesel, which
is sold as "Jet A".. the main difference between the two "schedules" is
that Jet A Diesel fuel is adjusted for gel point, cloud point, and
lubrication elements.

Look it up. You can read all the specifications and make your own
conclusions.
I routinely run Schedule 54 "Jet A" fuel in my Diesel vehicles because I
collect the preflight sump samples and clean them of water residue... I add
lubricant to the fuel and run it.. works just fine. [New EPA rules require
preflight sump drain samples to be "disposed of properly, and treated as
HAZMAT"   so I provide "disposal services" for same ]

FWIW,

Grant...

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 4:03 PM,  wrote:

> > ...It does cost that much more, but it's a turbo diesel..
> >
> It is not a turbo-diesel and won't run on diesel.
>
> RLE
>
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Re: [MBZ] Correct grease for brake caliper pins, not black sheet?

2012-10-04 Thread Hendrik & Fay 
I use the stuff that is for smearing on the back off brake discs, heck I 
use it for lubing the sunroof and other special lube jobs.
Moly black stuff is what I use on metal to metal slow applications, it's 
earthmover grease and may well eat your rubber and give you cancer.


Hendrik
who needs to get handy with the grease gum

On 04/10/12 12:50, Dieselhead wrote:
The white crusty gunk is white lithum "grease" that many people insist 
is good.  IMHO, Lithuim "grease" is barely even a lubricant when new, 
and when old is worse than nothing.


I'd slather them up with the moly you have and not worry about it.  A 
good moly lube is excellent for most purposes, and the quality ones 
never break down or dry out.  Even when the carrier grease is cooked 
out, the molybdenum is left and it is like itty bitty ball bearings.



Listers, what is the right grease to use on the sliding caliper pins 
when
doing a front brake job on my '87 300D?   Whatever was on there 
before has

turned into a white crusty gunk that is obviously not providing any
lubrication.

I have a tub of fairly new black moly grease, and I hate to pay the
ridiculous price for the tiny single-use packet labeled " Synthetic 
Brake

Grease" by the counter at AutoZone if I don't need to.

Alex






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